Living with the Sorrow of Losing a Child: Finding Joy Again

Sandra Harper Lamgo has a very special story. She talks with Anna about what it was like for her to grow her family and how one loss, in particular, changed her husband's and her life forever. Undiagnosed hypoplastic left heart syndrome resulted in a tragedy that Sandra never could have predicted. Tune in to hear what happened to Sandra and her family, how the loss of her son, William, has affected her life, and the unexpected outcome of losing a child.

To be put on the waiting list for Sandra's book, Twenty-Seven Hours of Will, visit her Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SandraHarperLamgo/

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Transcript

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 0:00

There is life after loss. You can go on. You can smile and laugh again and have joy again.

Anna Jaworski : 0:12

Welcome to the 15th season of "Heart to Heart with Anna." I am Anna Jaworski, and the host of your program. Today's show is 'Living with the Sorrow of Losing a Child: Finding Joy Again,' and our guest is Sandra Harper Lamgo. Sandra Harper Lamgo is a writer, speaker, blogger, adoption advocate and listener to people who have experienced grief and loss. She and her husband Phil live on a cattle ranch in small country Texas, with their eight children, ranging from 24 years of age all the way down to 20 months old. After her newborn son William passed away due to undiagnosed hypoplastic left heart syndrome, Sandra struggled to navigate through the daily living waves of grief. Her journals turned into a book showing how she found hope on her journey. Welcome to "Heart to Heart with Anna," Sandra.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 1:06

Thank you for having me on the show.

Anna Jaworski : 1:08

I'm very happy to have you on the program. I wish we lived a little bit closer so we could do this face-to-face.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 1:15

Exactly, exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 1:17

Let's get started by having you tell us when you found out that you were pregnant with William and how you reacted.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 1:24

Well, we actually struggled with infertility early in our marriage. And it took two years to have our first child through the help of fertility treatments. And when he was just 12 weeks old, I was having gallbladder issues. I had gall stones, and we were going in for testing and I wasn't feeling well. And something just told me, 'You know what? Something's off. You better take a pregnancy test.' And, lo and behold, without any help from medical means, I was pregnant. You would think I would be ecstatic about that. But the truth is my first pregnancy with my first child was very difficult. I was very sick and I had just finally gotten over all that and I wanted to enjoy him. And to learn that I was pregnant again, actually, I was quite sad and terrified. Of course, that turned around very quickly. But that was my initial reaction when I found out I was going to be having another baby... so soon to the first one.

Anna Jaworski : 2:16

And that's the thing - when I was reading your book, I was surprised at how quickly you got pregnant right after having your first son - and his name is Andrew, right?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 2:26

Yes, it is. Yes.

Anna Jaworski : 2:27

Yeah. Wow, that was super fast. Well, tell us about William's birth.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 2:34

The first birth was so traumatic and we had so many problems. I was kind of expecting the same thing. But William's birth... I was induced three weeks early because of that gallbladder issue. But the two things that really stand out about his birth was it was just peaceful and pain-free. It was a very enjoyable time. I even fell asleep and the nurses came in to wake me up and said, "Guess what! It's time to push."

Anna Jaworski : 2:57

Oh, wow!

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 2:58

Yeah, I had no inkling that it was time to do anything. And he was born very quickly and we got to spend a lot of time just snuggling on him. He was beautiful and pink, which, in comparison to my first son, who was premature and had to be taken away immediately to the NICU. It was just that ideal moment - which kind of came to a crashing halt. When later in that day, he just started acting up. He was very fussy, wouldn't eat, and was turning kind of a grayish color. So we and our pediatrician was very concerned about him at that time. So we knew something was up. We just didn't know what it was at that time.

Anna Jaworski : 3:33

Right, right. It just seems like it happened so fast. And now you have the benefit of having time to have read some medical records. And you were a nurse before you even started your family, right?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 3:47

Right, right. Yes. And we just went ahead and started right away. I knew I was going to have some problems getting pregnant just based on my own medical history. So we started trying right away, but yes, I kind of knew the ins and outs and so there was something that just told me, 'Something's not right.' Not just a maternal instinct, but I knew that his coloring and his breathing - things were not right with him at that time. But we just couldn't get anybody to believe us at that time.

Anna Jaworski : 4:12

Yes, yes. And for our listeners who haven't had the chance to read Sandra's book yet, this was in the 1990s. So much less was known back then; they weren't using pulse oximetry on newborn infants to have any idea that something could be wrong. And since you already had a child who was healthy, who would have expected?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 4:33

Right, exactly, exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 4:35

So completely unexpected...

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 4:36

It was completely unexpletely different and unexpected. Exactly, exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 4:40

We already know that William passed away. Can you tell us how many hours he was alive and why that number became significant to you?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 4:50

He actually lived for 27 hours. So just a little over a day. We actually removed him from life support once we learned that all of his organs had failed at that time. "Twenty-Seven Hours" is in our title of the book. It's called "Twenty-Seven Hours of Will." And the big significance is that those 27 hours in our entire life was now forever divided into the 'before' and the 'after' of William, and we became completely different people. It all just kind of boiled down to those little handful of hours. But for us that 27 hours is a lifetime.

Anna Jaworski : 5:26

Yes! Literally! It was William's lifetime. How old was he? When they finally decided, 'Oh, my goodness, this mother is right. There is something wrong. It's his heart.'

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 5:38

It was about 20 hours in so we were almost a day away. And our pediatrician had ordered an emergency echocardiogram. Once the cardiologist took him, he performed just an external, I guess "evaluation" and decided that he didn't need to perform that echo. We didn't learn about that until later, but he returned him to us. And we were ready to go home. They went ahead and signed all the papers and we were packing up. So we had some family there getting ready to go home. And he was screaming. You could tell it was a painful scream, and then just silence. So I just began running down the hall to the nursery. He had stopped breathing, and they put him on the pulse ox at that time. And from that moment on, everybody moved in, and they took them to the NICU. So they went ahead and then did the tests and found out that he indeed did have hypoplastic left heart syndrome. But by the time they found out, it was too late. We didn't have many options, because he had gone long enough without oxygen. And by the time they administered medication to him, he had already suffered severe brain damage. He was basically brain dead at that time. He was just on life support.

Anna Jaworski : 6:43

It's just so heartbreaking because even in the 1990s - wasn't he born in 1997?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 6:49

Yes, yes.

Anna Jaworski : 6:50

Right. So even in 1997, they had prostaglandin E1 and they could have administered it had they known his PDA must be closing. That's why he was starting to turn gray. We need to do something. It would have bought a little time maybe I mean, it's not foolproof; it doesn't always work. But it's just heartbreaking to know that maybe something could have been done.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 7:14

I think that's the thing that comes into play all the time is the woulda, shoulda, coulda's. The 'If only this would have happened,' and I'm so grateful for all of the children that do get diagnosed, and I love almost living vicariously through them, looking at them, looking at them achieve everything. And I think if William couldn't do that, at least they could but then there's still that lingering, 'Man! If only, if only we would have known!'

Anna Jaworski : 7:39

Yeah, that longing,

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 7:41

Right

Anna Jaworski : 7:42

It's a huge longing and it makes complete sense. I think it's very altruistic of you that you're able to see other people's children who have heart defects who are thriving and that you can be happy for them.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 7:55

Right and that's not always the way it's been. It has taken some years to do get to that point. I'm kind of sad to admit that but I think nobody wishes ill will on another child or another family. But I think it's a little heartbreaking at first when you see somebody that's going on with their lives and you wish you could have been part of that. So it's taken time, but we've gotten there. So we're kind of different. It's been almost 23 years now. So it's taken some time to get to this point.

Heart to Heart with Michael : 8:25

Texas Heart Institute were offering us a mechanical heart and he said, "No, Dad. I've had enough. Give it to someone who's worthy." (Cameron Miller) "My father promised me a golden dress to twirl in. He held my hand and asked me where I wanted to go." (Rachel Greenbaum) "Whatever strife or conflict that we experienced in our long career together was always healed by humor." (Philip Proctor) "Heart to Heart with Michael," please join us every Thursday at noon Eastern as we talk with people from around the world who have experienced those most difficult moments.

Anna Jaworski : 8:54

This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice. diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Rejoiner : 9:15

You are listening to "Heart to Heart with Anna," If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our show, please send an email to Anna Jaworski at Anna@HeartToHeartwithAnna.com. That's Anna@HeartToHeartwithAnna.com. Now, back to "Heart to Heart with Anna"

Anna Jaworski : 9:34

Sandra before the break, we were talking about you losing Will. But in this segment, I'd like to talk a little bit more about your family. First of all, a lot of children have grace to your life, especially for a woman who has had fertility problems.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 9:52

Yes, people look at our brood and they think 'you struggled with infertility?' Yes, Yes, we did. They didn't all come very easily, but We do have a large family now.

Anna Jaworski : 10:03

Right. Now, in your book, you went through all of your pregnancies, which all seemed really complicated and difficult. What's the greatest lesson you learned from William as far as being pregnant and giving birth?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 10:15

Well, at first, I kind of learned that you can't control anything. You are not in control. Much as I had planned out my life, it just didn't turn out the way I wanted. And to have a pregnancy so soon after my first... it just wasn't in my control. But it was worth everything that we went through the almost nine months of a difficult pregnancy and all those hard moments, it was worth it just to have those 27 hours with him. And so I really learned to treasure every moment. Even the bad ones. We really recognize even the bad days, but in the end, it was completely worth it to have those 27 hours after 37 weeks of him on the inside. And I really do dwell a lot on those seven weeks on the inside, he was a living being. And we did connect. And a lot of mothers feel that way when they're pregnant. So I feel like I didn't just have those 27 hours. I didn't have some before. And it was very precious because it was just very intimate with just he and I, but definitely all of our children that have come after, we've definitely learned how to treasure each moment. I feel like in some ways I can really connect with, especially my oldest child, even though he was just a baby when William died. He has this sense of loss about him, and I can connect with him on that. It's something that only he, my husband and I have gone through together. So we're actually a very close family, I think.

Anna Jaworski : 11:41

Yeah. And he still lives at home with you?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 11:43

He does! He does actually. We live on a ranch and he has his own quarters here. So he's here but not here. But he actually works on the ranch with us and he is doing a great job.

Anna Jaworski : 11:55

That's awesome. That's really wonderful. I like how you feel that you had more than the 27 hours and I think it's really different with your second pregnancy compared to your first pregnancy or at least it was for me. With the first pregnancy, even though I had read a bunch of books, I didn't really understand in the same way that I would with my second pregnancy, everything that was going on plus it just seems like I could feel the baby kicking and moving earlier the second pregnancy but I think it's because that first pregnancy I wasn't even really sure what was going on. And I thought maybe it was a figment of my imagination.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 12:34

Exactly, exactly. It is. You feel things earlier, and you're not as worried. I don't think. I just wasn't as concerned. So I got to enjoy it a little more, even the sickness and all that, I still was able to enjoy it after the initial shock.

Anna Jaworski : 12:49

Right, right. That was such a shock for you. I also had some infertility problems. It seemed like it took us forever before we finally got pregnant now. We were like I didn't have to go through the same things that you went through. But what a surprise for you to so shortly after giving birth to Andrew, find out that you were pregnant again.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 13:11

And it let us know what a true miracle that William was to us - not planning any of that. And you have to sit back and wonder, 'God, why did you do this? We didn't ask for this. We didn't ask for this child that you gave them to us. And then you took him away.' So we knew after the initial hurt, we knew there is a big plan here for this child, even though he's not living there in the purpose. And that's what we kind of started to focus on.

Anna Jaworski : 13:34

Right. And then you had another significant child loss. Can you talk to us about that?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 13:41

We did. And you know, this is kind of sad. I don't always touch on our loss of Grace, our daughter Grace. We started trying pretty soon after we lost William to go ahead and have another child and of course, we came across infertility issues again. So we tried for about three years and I finally was pregnant again with the help of fertility drugs. And sadly we had a stillbirth with Grace. We went in for an ultrasound to see how things were going. And we were, of course, going to check out the heart and her heart had stopped beating. So they went ahead and, it took me a little bit to accept it. I was like, 'I don't think they're doing this right.' So once I finally accepted it, they had to induce labor. And even though it was a horrible loss, I think I was still in such a big cloud of grief over William that his loss kind of overshadowed her loss, and it kind of combined together. So we do have Grace, and we have William up in heaven. And the thing with her is, I really didn't get a chance to get to know her. I never felt like I really got to know her. We lost her in the second trimester so she could have lived had she been born at that particular stage. But God decided to take her home, and again, we're like, 'Okay, God, what is this? You knew we wanted so many children.' And now we're looking like we're not going to be able to have children at all. So it kind of pushed us right back under. We were just getting out of having some significant grief. And we were getting out of bed and we were living a little bit again and then to get thrown back under took us a little more time to come back up for air again.

Anna Jaworski : 15:18

Right, right. But what was so remarkable to me when I was reading your book was how you and Phil then opened your heart to other children who were not your children by birth. So certainly God has welcomed many children into your life. Why don't you tell us about those two blessings?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 15:37

Well, we first thought about adoption after William died, and we thought this could be a genetic issue, which that's still very much up in the air even these days. But we knew that adoption was part of our lives. but we didn't jump into it until after our fifth child was born. And she was six years old, and we just had this feeling that somebody was missing. And so we started going through the process of getting our home study and getting prepared to welcome a child into our lives and we ended up with a little girl, Ava Beth, just the tiniest little thing. She was premature and she was born with neonatal abstinence syndrome, NAS, basically babies who are born addicted to drugs. And so we were in the NICU and we went through all that and took her home. And then on her very first birthday, another little baby was born. And they gave us a call and they knew that we were open to adopting again, but we weren't actively looking. We ended up adopting our little boy Nathan, who was actually born in a traumatic emergency C-section. He did not breathe for about 12 minutes they worked on him. And when they got him back, his blood gases showed that he had hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy, which means he was having some brain troubles. So they put him on a cooling bed where they actually lowered his body temperature so that his brain could heal. And they did that for 72 hours. And so once again, we're back in the NICU. We kept going back to the NICU but this time, it was a different story. And Nathan had a couple problems beyond that brain damage, which he actually is doing perfectly fine with right now. But they did find some holes in his heart. You know, we had a lot of moments during these adoptions where we were taken back to the beginning with William, but it gave us so much insight. And we kind of felt like 'Wow, God was really preparing us for this.' So Nathan is our special little boy. He is three years old now. Ava is four they have the same birthday. They are not biologically related, but we know no difference. We just feel they're exactly the same as our biological children. And then we just 20 months ago adopted another little girl, Sarah, once again, have the same problems with the others as far as being born with the drugs in the system. This time we have an open adoption arrangement with the birth mom and it's been really awesome to get to know her. She herself was an orphan in an orphanage in Romania and was adopted at the age of three and so it's just been a great eye-opening experience. I'm not sure we would have ever gone the adoption route had we not lost William. He was actually one that really kind of turned us this way. So we're very blessed and thankful we've lost two children and we've actually gained three more on top of it. So it's a little bit like a circus in a zoo here, but it's a lot of fun. And we're doing a lot of living now. Definitely.

Anna Jaworski : 18:21

Hi, my name is Jamie Alcroft. And I just published my new book, "The Tinman Diaries." It's an amazing story of my sudden change of heart as I went through a heart and liver transplant. I can think of no better way to read "The Tin Man Diaries" than to cuddle up in your favorite Hearts Unite the Globe sweatshirt, and your favorite hot beverage of course in your Heart Unite the Globe mug, both of which are available the Hug Podcast Network online store, or visit heartsunitetheglobe.org

HomeTonightForever : 18:49

Home. Tonight. Forever by the Baby Blue Sound Collective. "I think what I love so much about this CD is that some of the songs were inspired by the patients." (Anna Jaworski) "Many listeners will understand many of the different songs and what they've been inspired by. Our new album will be available on iTunes, amazon.com, Spotify," (Dr. Gil Wernovsky) "I love the fact that the proceeds from this CD are actually going to help those with congenital heart defects." (Anna Jaworski) "Enjoy the music." (Dr. Gil Wernovsky) Home. Tonight. Forever.

HUG Info : 19:38

Heart to Heart with Anna is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe. And is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to uplift, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at www.congenitalheartdefects.com for information about CHD, the hospitals that treat children with CHD, summer camps for CHD survivors, and much, much more.

Anna Jaworski : 20:12

Sandra, in the second segment, we were talking about your family. But now I want to talk about your book. First of all, why did you feel that you needed to share this book with the world?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 20:24

Back in 1997, when William died, the first thing that we were handed when we were walking out of the hospital with some old photocopies of grief from the social worker, and when I got home, of course, I started searching. And back then, of course, we didn't have all at our fingertips that we have now on the internet. But we did have the internet and I was searching for a book to help me at that time, help me navigate through this grief. They really didn't have anything that touched on my particular kind of grief. There wasn't anything about infant loss. There might have been an older child or miscarriage. But I didn't have anything that was really resonating with me and helping me to navigate those steps of grief. And I was just really spiraling downwards. And I found it very therapeutic to put pen to paper and start writing my thoughts. And so almost immediately after he died, I started journaling and writing letters to him or just getting my feelings on paper, very detailed feelings that I may not even remember now. But looking back, I'm like, 'Yeah, that's how I was feeling.' And along the way, I started joining different groups of people, virtually, as well as going to support groups. And we all kind of have that same common denominator, we don't have a resource, there's really not a resource. So over the years, I've still continued looking and there are more books, but still, I feel there's a need to have somebody who's not just written a book so close to the death - like two years out. There's a lot of people that write a book very close to the death, but I have looked at my journals over almost 23 years, and been able to see how that grief stage goes in and out of my life, how I've been able to handle it, and how I've been able to kind of climb out of that drowning that I felt I was not able to breathe or move on or get up in the morning, or even be happy or laugh again. And so we started to go ahead and put that into a book. And I held on to it for a long time. And I would add to it here and there. But I just felt like somebody needed to have an honest depiction of what it is to go ahead and live beyond just the funeral and to actually live and what day-to-day looks like with a family that's gone through loss like this. And the sad thing is that I still belong to support groups, and people are still losing infants.

Anna Jaworski : 22:45

Sure.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 22:46

... especially to what William died of. It is not ending I guess that when you have a loss, you think, 'Okay, well, I have suffered and this is the end of all suffering.' And it's not and I still have people that we talk and I'm like, 'Oh you know what I have written about this. You should read this. This may help you' or at least just having that common denominator and knowing somebody else lived it, and is living through it. Because some days you feel like 'You know what? I don't know if I can go on.' So that is the main reason I wrote it not just for me, but for other people. Now I'm realizing that it was very therapeutic for me to write it, as well as for my children who never got to meet William. And I want them to know a little bit of our lives so that they know why we are the way we are.

Anna Jaworski : 23:26

Sure

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 23:26

... why we have so many kids, why we live a little more free out here on the ranch than maybe what we would have had we not gone through all of that suffering.

Anna Jaworski : 23:35

Right. Well, good book is not exactly chronological. Instead, you share bits and pieces of information and keep going back to William in many chapters at the beginning of the book. And I think this one-step-forward-two-step-back approach is often how we feel when we're grieving, don't you?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 23:53

Yeah. Oh, exactly. It is identical.

Anna Jaworski : 23:55

Yeah. So what finally propelled you to move forward so that you could feel joy again?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 24:03

I think when we started, finally getting a hold of our faith. Finding hope in our faith and in Jesus, we were able to go ahead and see beyond our pain and we were able to see into an eternity that we'll be able to see William again. And that this is just a chapter in our lives. And even though it changed who we were forever, there is some good that has come out of this - that God has a purpose for us. And being able to see that hope - we were able to actually get joy back into our lives, not just happiness, but actual joy where we could... and we still think of William. We still think of him. It's never going to take away the pain like you said, 'one step forward, two steps back' even 20 years from the death just a smell of cut grass, and it reminds me of the season that we were in when we lost him but at the same time I can see that there was a purpose. Having that hope that there is something better out there, there is something worth living for and going on - that's what gave us our joy. So for me it was finding our faith and clinging to God and knowing that He's got this. That's how we were able to do it.

Anna Jaworski : 25:12

Well, life and death go hand-in-hand but it seems that our culture has a great deal of difficulty accepting death, as witnessed by what we're living through right now during the Coronavirus. It's May 2020, when we're recording this program, and the United States is still reeling from this potentially fatal virus. What's the most important thing that you've learned, thanks to William, when it comes to death?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 25:38

Yeah, death is one of those things people just don't want to talk about. And I go into this in my book, in greater detail, actually, throughout the book is how people respond to you, and they don't want to talk about it. They don't want to hurt your feelings. And now that we have this global pandemic and we're talking more about death, it gives me an opportunity to show people that there is life after loss both Eternal and here on Earth. I believe that my son is in heaven. And I believe that he is living. It's not like his life is over. He is living in heaven, and I will see him again. But also I am living here on earth. And there is a purpose to our suffering and our loss. We may not know that purpose while we're here on Earth, but we can at least trust that God has a plan for each of us and that He has us. And so when people are in these unsure times, and we're talking about death, and it's becoming on the forefront right now we can be assured that - we're scared we get it, there is pain and their suffering and there's loss but God has us and we're not spinning out of control and we just need to cling to him and there is life after loss. You can go on. You can smile and laugh again, and have joy again.

Anna Jaworski : 26:49

I love it. I love that positive message. It is so hard to lose someone you love. Whether it's a baby, whether it's a parent, even a pet! Our pets become a major part of our family. But losing an infant - it's more than just losing a person. It's the potential - all the things that could have been or should have been. And the fact that you've been able to come out of this and see that God did have a plan for you. And it seems to me quite clear that his plan was to prepare you for adopting these three children who really, really needed you. I just think that's, that's so special. Well tell us again, the name of your book and how people can find it.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 27:36

It is "Twenty-Seven Hours of Will: Finding Hope When You're Drowning in Grief" and it is going to be coming out in September. It'll be available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can just Google it and it'll be available both in download format as well as paperback and hardcover.

Anna Jaworski : 27:53

For all my listeners who are saying, "But Anna said she read it" I got an advanced copy. I feel very lucky. So I have a sneak peek, I got a chance to read it because we really felt that the interview would go better if I read her book first. And so thank you for giving me a chance to read your book. I did find it. fascinating.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 28:15

Thank you for reading it.

Anna Jaworski : 28:17

It was really very interesting. I feel like I know you so much better now that I have read your story and that I've had a chance to talk to you. So thank you so much for coming on the program today.

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 28:29

Well, thank you for having me. I really did enjoy talking with you today.

Anna Jaworski : 28:32

It has been a lot of fun. So I know some people may want to be on a waiting list for your book because they've also experienced infant loss or they know somebody who has. Is there any way they can get on your waiting list?

Sandra Harper Lamgo : 28:48

Yes, absolutely. If anyone would like to order the book before it's released, they can contact me on Facebook at Sandra Harper Lamgo. That's L-A-M-G-O author.

Anna Jaworski : 29:00

Okay, and don't forget the word 'author,' because if you just put Sandra Harper Lamgo, that will go to her personal page. But if you go to Sandra Harper lamb go author that will take you to a page where you can actually learn more about the book. That does conclude this episode of Heart to Heart with Anna. Thanks for listening today, my friends. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please consider becoming a patron Just go to www.patreon.com/hearttoheart and pledge a monthly amount to support our program. It only takes a few minutes to make a big difference. For the cost of a pizza, you can help us to continue to provide great programming for the CHD community for an entire year. Have a great day, my friends, and remember, you are not alone.

HUG Info : 29:47

Thank you again for joining us this week. We hope you have been inspired and empowered to become an advocate for the congenital heart defects community. Heart to Heart with Anna with your host Anna Jaworski can be heard every Tuesday at 12 noon, Eastern Time.