Update on Keith Flynn: Finally on the List!

Loyal Listeners of "Heart to Heart with Anna" will remember Keith Flynn from 2019 when he came on the show to talk about his need for a heart and liver transplant. He graciously agreed to periodically return to let everyone know what it's like to be on the list waiting for organs and to share his experience with us.

It's been about a year since we heard from Keith. In this episode, he shares with Anna what has transpired in the last year -- which has most notably been complicated by COVID-19. He talks about his chances of getting a liver and a heart in these difficult times and how his treatment plan has been affected by the pandemic.

Keith also shares with Anna what he has learned about financial support for people needing a transplant. He shares helpful advice for others who might need an organ transplant and even shares what he and his family have done for the last year to optimize his quality of life.

Here is a link to Keith's Transplant Journey Facebook page

Here is a link to Keith's GoFundMe page

Here is a link to Keith's 2019 "Heart to Heart with Anna" episode

Links to 'Heart to Heart with Anna' Social Media and Podcast Pages:

Apple Podcasts

Facebook

YouTube

Instagram 

If you enjoy this program and would like to be a Patron, please check out our Patreon page  

Transcript

Keith Flynn : 0:00

I'm on the list four months as of now so COVID has really thrown a wrench in the whole process.

Anna Jaworski : 0:15

Welcome to "Heart to Heart with Anna." I am Anna Jaworski, and the host of your program. This is the last episode of Season 15. I'm really excited because we have returning guest, Keith Flynn, and our episode today is entitled 'Update on Keith Flynn: Finally on the List!' Keith Flynn was born in 1975 and shortly after birth, he was diagnosed with ventricular septal defect, double inlet left ventricle, pulmonary atresia and hypoplastic right ventricle. He had two B-T shunts at age six months and five years and a modified Fontan Procedure when he was 15. Despite experiencing atrial arrhythmias in early adulthood, he's received limited cardiac care in his 20s and early 30s. In his 30s, Keith started experiencing syncopal or fainting episodes, and on one occasion he was rescued by his wife after fainting while swimming. As a result of these episodes, Keith received a pacemaker and recording device and was treated with Sotolol, a beta blocker. However, Keith had began to experience fluid retention related to heart failure, and doctors told him that he would need a heart and liver transplant. He is currently listed for both organs. Keith first appeared on "Heart to Heart with Anna" in October of 2019. And since then, a lot has happened. So he's joining us today to give us an update on his journey. Welcome back to "Heart to Heart with Anna," Keith.

Keith Flynn : 1:46

Hi, Anna, I'm excited to be back with you to give your listeners an update. Thanks.

Anna Jaworski : 1:50

It has been almost a year. Let's talk about the test. Because we know that on TV and in the movies, they don't really show everything that happens. Why don't you talk to us, first of all about some of the procedures and testing that you've had to have between October and today?

Keith Flynn : 2:07

Sure, yes, it's very involved. It is not a 30-minute television show where someone gets sick, needs a heart and gets one, and walks out of the hospital. I've seen so many episodes of TV shows like that. It makes me cringe because it gives a false sense of expectation really, to anyone who thinks about a heart transplant or an organ transplant.

Anna Jaworski : 2:28

Right

Keith Flynn : 2:28

Since October, I was going to Philly about once a month for doctor's appointments and tests. Some of the more notable tests, I guess I've had, is a right-heart cath. I have to have one of those once a year while I'm going through the process of being listed and while I'm on the list. So if I'm listed for a year, I'll have another right-heart cath.

Anna Jaworski : 2:48

Hold on one second. Okay, I've heard of heart caths, but a specifically right-heart cath, is that because of your right ventricle - that they're not really looking at the left ventricle? They're just really looking at what's going on the right side?

Keith Flynn : 3:01

Yes, what they're trying to do is measure how much worse my heart is from the last cath that I had. So they're kind of getting a sense of how quick the functionality is failing.

Anna Jaworski : 3:11

Really?

Keith Flynn : 3:12

Yes

Anna Jaworski : 3:12

Yeah,` no, that does make sense. Okay. And they can't see that on an echo, on a less invasive procedure? It has to be done in a cath.

Keith Flynn : 3:21

That's correct. They feel that they get better measurements. That's because of the anatomy. The normal formulas you would use, don't work on my heart - that would work on a regular heart just because of all the different - for lack of a better term - "pipes" I have going in and out of there.

Anna Jaworski : 3:36

Well, yeah, because of the Fontan

Keith Flynn : 3:37

Exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 3:38

Right?

Keith Flynn : 3:39

Right. And so the really neat thing about this last right-heart cath I had was they actually went in through the neck and not through the femoral artery, which is accessed in the groin. It made for much quicker recovery time. And that's the first time I've been able to experience that. That was really nice actually. I was out within two hours.

Anna Jaworski : 3:57

Oh, wow.

Keith Flynn : 3:58

Yeah,

Anna Jaworski : 3:58

That's a huge difference

Keith Flynn : 4:00

It is. Normally you have to lay about four to six hours on your back. If they use the femoral artery for the cath. It was much nicer. And then I had a test called a sniff test, which is exactly what it sounds like. You basically stand up and sniff while a radiologist takes x-rays and what they were trying to see with that is -- through one of my previous procedures, they felt they had paralyzed part of my diaphragm. That is not the case. It just happens to be that the left side of my diaphragm is lazier than the right side of my diaphragm. It sounds like it's paralyzed when they listen with a stethescope. And I also had a CT scan, they started a new procedure where a CHD cardiologist has to review the CT scan because they had a not-so-desirable event that happened where they did not see a hidden blood vessel when they were doing a transplant. So they have the CHD cardiologist look at it because they're better with how the anatomy's set up on patients who have had previous surgeries and procedures. And then I also had the fun of being in an MRI tube for about two hours for a liver scan, so they could get an idea of how everything is mapped out in my body around my liver, before they go in...

Anna Jaworski : 5:20

Okay,

Keith Flynn : 5:21

...and of course, the bloodwork and doctor's appointments that go every month, but until COVID hit, we were having to go to Philly every month, but they actually started doing a lot of my appointments (unless I needed to be there) over the internet, which has been very nice.

Anna Jaworski : 5:37

Well, yeah, I imagine that's a lot nicer for you. You don't have to worry about parking and all the walking that has to be done, because that's a pretty huge medical complex, isn't it?

Keith Flynn : 5:48

We actually go to Perelman, which is the Center for Advanced Medicine, right across from University of Pennsylvania Hospital...

Anna Jaworski : 5:55

Okay,

Keith Flynn : 5:55

...and they pretty much have everything that I need right in there. It's rare that I need to go to the hospital. And actually there's a tunnel that connects to the hospital from Perelman. It's very convenient the way they have it set up, honestly.

Anna Jaworski : 6:07

Oh, that's nice. That's really good. So the big news is that from last year, you knew you needed a heart. But you hadn't qualified for being on the list. Talk to us about getting on the list.

Keith Flynn : 6:22

Yeah, in April of this year, I was working from home, and I got a phone call from the transplant department. And they said, "Hey, would you like to go to your local lab? Get some blood tests done? And we'll put you on the list this afternoon?" Well, that was kind of a shock, because we hadn't really been updated much. I'm like, "Well, you know, I don't know about that. Let me discuss it with my wife and we'll see. Of course, I want to be on the list but now's not the best time." And they said, "That's fine. We'll work with you." My wife and I had a conversation. And we realized that we were both in the middle of kind of big things at work. And we needed to get through that. So we waited two weeks, and on May 6 of this year, I was listed. And I was listed as Status 4, which is the highest status you can be without being in the hospital. I was freaked out every time the phone would ring and I would see the transplant department...

Anna Jaworski : 7:13

Sure

Keith Flynn : 7:14

...for the first few days but after that, it gets normal again. And it's going to be unexpected when it happens. And they warned me about that. So they said, "You'll get in the groove. You'll be living your life. And then one day, it'll just happen."

Anna Jaworski : 7:25

So you are able to be home, you're able to work, you're not having to be in the hospital?

Keith Flynn : 7:32

That's correct. Yes.

Anna Jaworski : 7:34

That's a huge relief, given COVID and what we're living through right now with this COVID-19 pandemic.

Keith Flynn : 7:42

It is. And that's something that a lot of people ask about, because you see people in the hospital waiting for heart, or the majority of people who lived a normal life, got heart failure and needed a heart transplant, they ended up waiting in the hospital. I was talking to a doctor about that and he explained it this way. He said, "Since you've had CHD your whole life and different surgeries and procedures, your body's kind of used to adjusting to those strenuous situations throughout your whole life. And it gets really good at it. Even in heart failure, our bodies are constantly adjusting with the changes, and they're accommodating it the best they can. It gets tougher, but it wouldn't be as tough as someone who had a perfectly functioning heart, and then started experiencing heart failure. If that were the case, they'd probably feel much worse. And they probably wouldn't be able to work and do the normal things that they can do. And this is one of the reasons that a lot of CHD patients can stay at home and wait versus waiting in the hospital." But we're all different. My situation may not apply to someone else with CHD. Every one of us are unique; our histories are different, the procedures and everything we've had done. Basically it all comes down to timing as well. The goal of the transplant team is to get you listed and transplanted before you get too sick. Because A) they don't want to mess up a good life that you're having. And B) they don't want you to be too sick where the transplant doesn't take. It's kind of a timing issue there.

Anna Jaworski : 9:11

Absolutely. It sounds like a juggling act.

Keith Flynn : 9:14

Yeah, exactly. It really is.

Heart to Heart with Michael : 9:17

"Texas Heart Institute were offering us a mechanical heart. And he said, "No, Dad. I've had enough; give it to someone who's worthy." (Cameron Miller) "My father promised me a golden dress to twirl in. He held my hand and asked me where I wanted to go." (Rachel Greenbaum) "Whatever strife or conflict that we experienced in our long career together was always healed by humor." (Phillip Proctor) "Heart to Heart with Michael," please join us every Thursday at noon Eastern as we talk with people from around the world who have experienced those most difficult moments.

Disclaimer : 9:46

This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Rejoiner : 10:07

You are listening to "Heart to Heart with Anna." If you have a question or comment that you would like to address on our show, please send an email to Anna Jaworski at Anna@hearttoheartwithanna.com. That's Anna@hearttoheartwithanna.com. Now, back to "Heart to Heart with Anna."

Anna Jaworski : 10:26

Before the break, we were getting to know about Keith being added to the transplant list. Keith, In this segment, let's talk about your experience living as a Heart Warrior during a pandemic. And I know we already alluded to this a little bit, but let's talk about what changes you've had to make with your life. What challenges have you had to face?

Keith Flynn : 10:44

I think our challenges up to this point have been pretty normal, just because it's pre-transplant. However, I think it was easier for my wife and I to transition into this being careful and the things that we have to do than most people because my wife Susie had been preparing us and stocking us up on hand sanitizer and antibacterial soap and disinfecting wipes. She was anticipating how we would have to live post-transplant.

Anna Jaworski : 11:15

Sure.

Keith Flynn : 11:16

And then when COVID hit, we saw the guidelines of what they were asking everyone to do, and basically decided to start living our lives like it was post-transplant and my immune system was compromised. We kind of chalked it up to practicing for how post-transplant life will be. And one of the things that helped is we were both able to switch to working from home easily. We've actually become a lot closer as a couple because of this. We do things like we go to fewer restaurants. So we cook at home more, and we just try to limit our exposure to crowded places. Besides that, it's the new normal, I guess,

Anna Jaworski : 11:51

That's kind of cool. In a way, this is preparing you for what's going to happen after you get your transplant.

Keith Flynn : 11:58

Exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 11:59

Wow. So there can be a silver lining?

Keith Flynn : 12:05

Always have to look at the positive in life.

Anna Jaworski : 12:07

And the one thing that I've been thinking is, "Okay, so now the whole world has a better idea of what we live with - those of us in the congenital heart defect community when we are getting ready for a surgery, not just a transplant, which of course is a huge, big deal, but even when my son was between surgeries, and post-Fontan. We had to live like this. But the whole wide world did to live like this. And I'm feeling like, "Okay, maybe some people now know the danger of germs and how you can get something that you think is just going to be the flu or a really bad cold and it can kill you." That's been the case for centuries. But I just don't think everybody's eyes were open to that.

Keith Flynn : 12:51

Right

Anna Jaworski : 12:52

Well, I'm glad to see that it hasn't negatively impacted you. If anything, it seems like it's been a positive experience for you.

Keith Flynn : 13:01

Right.

Anna Jaworski : 13:01

But it's been scary for most of the world to live during this pandemic with all of these restrictions. You said that you're staying home, you're not going to restaurants. How has it impacted your social life.

Keith Flynn : 13:13

My wife and I were members of TRIO which is a local transplant organization, which helps people after transplant get together and support each other. They had monthly meetings and, of course, those have been canceled. They're meeting on Zoom now. My schedule has been really busy lately, so I haven't really kept up with it. But that was kind of our social activities; we're new to the Baltimore area where we're living now. So we hadn't socialized a lot. And I'm kind of a natural introvert. So it's rare that I go out with the intention of socializing. However, we recently started back at in-person church services and Bible study, which has actually been very nice, because I really did miss that in-person social interaction.

Anna Jaworski : 13:59

Yeah,

Keith Flynn : 14:00

And even with masks and social distancing, it's wonderful. It's a welcome change. And besides, my wife, and my cats are getting tired of my jokes so I have to have a different audience, so...

Anna Jaworski : 14:12

I love it. I love it. I think I read on LinkedIn, that one of the unexpected results of COVID and so many people being restricted and staying at home is that there are fewer car accidents, and therefore at least in certain areas, there are fewer organs being transplanted that the number of transplants has significantly decreased. Has this been something that's been discussed with you?

Keith Flynn : 14:42

I'm not sure that that's a direct correlation. I would imagine it is. I know some of the transplant facilities did stop doing transplants when COVID hit. Penn did not. Yes, there's been less automobile accidents. So that would result in fewer donors because available, as well as people going out and doing things that may normally contribute to the donor pool. I would imagine there is less of a chance of getting an organ right now. However, it does look like things are getting back to normal. So we'll just kind of have to see how that plays out.

Anna Jaworski : 15:19

Has COVID-19 impacted your treatment plan?

Keith Flynn : 15:23

Absolutely. Right when COVID hit and it was getting to be big, everything got shut down. There were no lab tests, there were no doctor's appointments, everything got canceled. And we didn't know when that was going to pick back up. I was able to go to my local lab, get the bloodwork done that normally needs to be done regularly when you're getting tested for transplant or on the waiting list. The local lab here was great. They have good social distancing policies. They're worried about keeping their guests safe so that's been nice. And as far as my appointments at Penn, they started doing online appointments, which was really nice. They only bring me into the clinic if there's something that they need to find out via tests that they run there, or they just need to see me to evaluate me in person and everything else has been through telehealth and honestly, if anything comes out of this when they start lifting the restrictions, I hope telehealth can stay because it's actually saved us a lot of time and money not having to go back and forth to Philly each month when they can just do it with a telehealth appointment.

HUG Store : 16:34

Hi, my name is Jamie Alcroft and I just published my new book "The Tinman Diaries." It's an amazing story of my sudden change of heart as I went through a heart and liver transplant. I can think of no better way to read "The Tin Man Diaries" than to cuddle up in your favorite Hearts Unite the Globe sweatshirt, and your favorite hot beverage, of course, in your Heart Unite the Globe mug - both of which are available at the HUG Podcast Network online store, or visit heartsunitetheglobe.org.

HomeTonightForever : 17:02

Home. Tonight. Forever. by the Baby Blues Sound Collective. "I think what I love so much about this CD is that some of the songs were inspired by the patients." (Anna Jaworski)

HUG Info : 17:22

"Many listeners will understand many of the different songs and what they've been inspired about. Our new album will be available on iTunes amazon.com Spotify," Dr. Gil Wernvosky.

HomeTonightForever : 17:31

"I love the fact that the proceeds from this CD are actually going to help the patients." (Anna Jaworski) "Enjoy the music!" Dr. Gil Wernovsky. Home. Tonight. Forever.

HUG Info : 17:40

"Heart to Heart with Anna" is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to uplift, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at www.congenitalheartdefects.com for information about CHD, the hospitals that treat children with CHD, summer camps for CHD survivors, and much, much more.

Anna Jaworski : 18:25

Before the break we were talking with Keith about life as a Heart Warrior during the age of coronavirus. Keith, it's great that you're able to keep working despite the pandemic and your current health status. Finances can be an added challenge for people facing transplants. So I thought we'd start this segment by having you talk a little bit about what you've learned about financial support when you're facing a transplant.

Keith Flynn : 18:52

That's a really good question. We can probably do an entire episode on this question.

Anna Jaworski : 18:57

Really?

Keith Flynn : 18:57

I think there's a lot of challenges financially when you're facing something as epic as a transplant. And I think there's some main points that have to be considered by everyone who's going to face something this major. And a few of those points, I'll tell you what we thought about and what I think would be helpful for other guests who may be listening. I think you have to save as much money as you can. That first thing because it's going to be expensive; you're going to have travel-related stuff, you're going to have all kinds of stuff that you don't realize. No matter if you have insurance, you can have the best insurance, you're still going to have to come out of pocket on a lot of stuff. Pay off as much debt as you can. If you have time to prepare for the transplant, you want to have as few bills as you can going into the transplant to worry about.

Anna Jaworski : 19:00

Sure.

Keith Flynn : 19:01

You also want to plan and budget as much as you can with your money and be intentional with your money.

Anna Jaworski : 19:51

Mm hmm.

Keith Flynn : 19:52

And then one major thing that's helped us - you need to communicate with your employer. Whether you're the caregiver or the recipient, you need to let your employer know what's going on because sometimes smaller company, but mid- to larger company, there's probably programs that they have available that can assist you. My company, Disability Rights-Maryland, we have a sick leave pool where employees can donate sick leave time, and I can get some of that sick leave time that will kick in until my disability policy kicks in. If I'm out for that long and covered at least with a little bit of money coming in

Anna Jaworski : 20:30

That's really helpful! That's really nice to know! Being able to donate a day or two of sick leave, could really make a difference for you.

Keith Flynn : 20:39

Absolutely, I was a newer employee there. So that helped a lot. I didn't have a chance to build up as much sick leave, as I could have. And I'm still working. So I'm still building that. But I still, probably by the time I have my heart, I still couldn't have saved the maximum time of sick leave. So it helps out a lot. And also, you need to be very open with your insurance company and talk with them because a lot of them have nurses who will check on you. A lot of them have advisors for these types of situations. For instance, our insurance company agent came to my wife, and had meetings if anyone wanted to talk to them. So she told him about what we were going through and he said, "Well here, fill this form out, I'll see if I can get you some travel reimbursement money." They were able to give us a budget to where every time we go to the doctor, we can file a claim, and they will reimburse us for a percentage of the money we spent going to the doctor if it's transplant-related.

Anna Jaworski : 21:36

Wow!

Keith Flynn : 21:37

So there's things like that.

Anna Jaworski : 21:38

Great. Yeah. Now, is that common knowledge for anybody who goes on the list? Or is this something that you've investigated above and beyond what your transplant team would tell you?

Keith Flynn : 21:48

This is just things we found out. And I think the last point that I would mention right now is every financial social worker I spoke with at a transplant facility suggested to start some kind of fundraising mechanism. And we did that as well. We haven't pushed it as much as we probably should have. And we've had some generous people give. But the reason for that is you may have everything covered up to the front side of your transplant. But you never know what's going to happen on the backside of the transplant.

Anna Jaworski : 22:19

Well, absolutely. Infections, all kinds of stuff can happen

Keith Flynn : 22:24

Yeah, complications. For instance, I was talking to a gentleman a couple of weeks ago who received a transplant about a year-and-a-half ago. And until COVID hit, he was just paying out of pocket for extra rehab because he knew he wouldn't go to the gym as much as he should. There's all kinds of costs that you can't really anticipate.

Anna Jaworski : 22:43

Yeah, and you don't even think about!

Keith Flynn : 22:45

Right

Anna Jaworski : 22:45

Don't forget about rehab after and if all the gyms are closed...

Keith Flynn : 22:49

Right

Anna Jaworski : 22:49

I hadn't even thought about that, but that's so important because if you don't rehab properly, you're not going to have a good quality of life.

Keith Flynn : 22:56

Exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 22:58

Wow, those are all good points. Then that brings me actually to the next question, which is what kind of emotional support do you have at this time? Because this is a very emotional experience. And for you, you're talking a double-organ transplant. That really is tough. And you said you've had a couple of generous people who have already given to you but how does this affect your relationship with other people emotionally?

Keith Flynn : 23:25

As far as emotional support, I am very blessed in that aspect of it. I talk to my family a lot. I talk to my mom every day. My wife's been an angel...

Anna Jaworski : 23:35

Awww! You're such a good son!

Keith Flynn : 23:36

Yeah, Mom! I know she's listening.

Anna Jaworski : 23:40

Hi, Mom! I sure wish my son's would talk to me every day. That's awesome that you talk to your mom every day, I love

Keith Flynn : 23:47

that my wife has been an angel, I wouldn't be as healthy or as emotionally ready for this transplant. If it wasn't for her. My employer, which I mentioned earlier, they've been very helpful is along with coworkers. I have friends who call and check on me, which is awesome. My wife and I are members of an amazing church. It feels like family. And they've been extremely supportive and interested in our situation. I mean, we're just really blessed with emotional support we have.

Anna Jaworski : 24:14

Let me ask you, a lot of parents when they're dealing with transplant, or even just regular open heart surgeries that are coming up for their children, especially when they're scheduled surgeries, they will start a blog or they will start a page. I know that some of the hospitals even have certain blog pages or ways that people can post updates. And then that way they're not having to call every single loved one or every single friend but the friends instead will get a notice in their email, Hey, keep posted an update and then that's a way for them to keep up with you even if they're not calling you every day. Have you started anything like that?

Keith Flynn : 24:53

So yes, we have we started a Facebook page. And that is kind of taking the burden off my wife of keeping everyone updated. That's been running for probably a little over a year. And I've been listing updates when I get tests when we get listed just milestones that's happened, kind of to keep people informed. So anyone who wants to follow I have people on there that I have no idea where they're from. But if they're getting something out of a good for them. I try to be kind of funny when I write my update so it's not just 'I got to deal with this, I got to deal with that.' And I want people to enjoy reading it and understand what's going on.

Anna Jaworski : 25:30

I think a sense of humor is so necessary, Keith. What is the average wait for somebody needing a heart and a liver - are other statistics available on that?

Keith Flynn : 25:41

I don't know official statistics, from what I can tell it has a lot to do with blood type. Some of the more rare blood types wait the longest

Anna Jaworski : 25:51

Sure

Keith Flynn : 25:52

So it also has to do with donor availability, which we talked about earlier, and not a lot of accidents are happening now. So donor availability is probably down. And then for instance, in my situation, I need a hard liver that will come from one donor, both of them. So the heart deliver has to be good. They have to be someone who's healthy, or to the standards of a transplant. And then in my case, because I've had so many previous surgeries, they're going to also look at taking the aorta and other major connecting arteries, from the donor. So those can go inside me as well. Just because my routings a little bit different because of the surgeries I've had. Pre-COVID, the transplant team kind of had a estimate, they said, "You probably won't be waiting over three months for a heart because your blood type, your size, the antibodies you have. And everything just lines up really well with being quick to get your heart and Penn's still doing transplants but I am on the list for months as of now. So COVID has really thrown a wrench in the whole process. And no one can really tell you anything anymore. As far as wait times go. So if you are looking at some statistics, they probably don't mean anything at this moment. Honestly,

Anna Jaworski : 27:14

Wow. It's a guessing game.

Keith Flynn : 27:16

Absolutely. It's a hypothesis from your team. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

Anna Jaworski : 27:22

I get the impression that you and your wife - you live every day as fully as you can.

Keith Flynn : 27:28

We try to. Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Jaworski : 27:31

You certainly seem to know the value of every minute that you have together.

Keith Flynn : 27:37

Yes, absolutely. Why would you live any other way? I guess is the way that I would think about it.

Anna Jaworski : 27:42

Right! I think when you're facing something like this, it does make you really stop and assess what's really important in your life. And I think that's one of the good things that's come from COVID is that it really has made people stop to smell the roses, and to assess what's really important in their lives. Who are the important people? What are the things that I want to leave behind? And how do I want to be remembered? I mean, I think it's made all of us kind of look at our mortality in a whole new way, don't you?

Keith Flynn : 28:14

I agree. I mean, when you think there may not be a tomorrow, at some point, and there's been times in my life where that topic just goes with the territory, you realize what's important and w1hat's not important, and - for lack of a better word - the crap that everybody else is concerned about, versus what you really need to be concerned with.

Anna Jaworski : 28:32

Right. Absolutely.

Keith Flynn : 28:33

Yeah. And I think if anything comes out of the COVID era that we're living in, I really hope that rings true with a lot of people.

Anna Jaworski : 28:40

Yeah, me, too. I can't believe we're out of time already. But I want to thank you, Keith, for sharing your experience and sharing so much information with us. This is really going to be helpful to other people who might be on that edge of Do I need a transplant? Should I go the transplant route? You're giving them a very earnest look at what it is that you're having to go through right now.

Keith Flynn : 29:03

Well, Anna, it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you having me on the show today. And I look forward to doing it again.

Anna Jaworski : 29:08

Me, too. I have the next time it's going to be post-transplant.

Keith Flynn : 29:13

That would be nice. I have certainly been remembering you in my prayers, Keith, and all the other people out there who are waiting for transplants. It's a rough thing that you're experiencing, and I appreciate you being so open about it. Well, I appreciate the prayers. I think that's one of the best ways that people can help people in our situations. Honestly.

Anna Jaworski : 29:33

That is so true. See? Everybody can do something.

Keith Flynn : 29:36

Exactly.

Anna Jaworski : 29:36

Even though you may not think it matters. I think prayer matters. I think prayers and sending positive energy, healing vibes. I think there's no downside to that. It makes you feel better for feeling like you can help a little bit and I believe in the laws of attraction, and I do think that it makes a difference. That does conclude this episode of "Heart to Heart with Anna" today, folks. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please consider being a patron. Just go to www.Patreon.com/hearttoheart and pledge a monthly amount. We sure appreciate that. It helps us with all of the expenses involved with, not only the podcasts, but our website and all of the other programs that we're trying to put together to help the congenital heart defect community. That's it for Season 15. I cannot believe that we're already at the end of Season 15. We've done over 280 shows of "Heart to Heart with Anna" but we'll have more coming again at 2021. We'll be sharing classic episodes through the rest of the year and all of the holiday times. So don't miss us. We'll be putting stuff out on Facebook so you can see some of our classic episodes. Happy Holidays to all. Thank you for listening and remember my friends, you are not alone.

Rejoiner : 30:57

Thank you again for joining us this week. We hope you have been inspired and empowered to become an advocate for the congenital heart defect community. "Heart to Heart with Anna" with your host Anna Jaworski can be heard every Tuesday at 12 noon, Eastern Time.