Web Design Business with Josh Hall
The Web Design Business Podcast with host Josh Hall is here to help you build a web design business that allows you to have freedom and a lifestyle you love. As a web designer and web agency owner of over a decade, Josh knows the challenges, struggles and often painful lessons of building a web design business without any guidance, proven strategies or a mentor to help you along the way, which is why this show exists. Think of this podcast as your weekly dose of coaching, mentorship and guidance to help you build your dream web design business. All while having a good time doing it. Through interviews with seasoned web design business professionals and online entrepreneurs, solo coaching episodes with Josh and even case studies with his students, you’ll learn practical tips and strategies for web business building along with real-world advice and trends that are happening right now in the wild and wonderful world of web design. Subscribe if you’re ready to start or level up your web design business and for all show notes, links, full transcriptions for each episode, head to https://joshhall.co/podcast
Web Design Business with Josh Hall
(BONUS) How to Offer Paid Discovery with Shannon Mattern (audio training)
This was a recent live guest expert training held in my community Web Designer Pro™. To get all the resources mentioned, along with the links, slides and access to the extended Q&A session, you can get it as a member of Pro!
In this training, Shannon Mattern covers how to offer paid discovery and more specifically, how and when to add it into your sales calls.
If you’re interested in getting paid before you get paid, getting paid for your ideas and/or having a clear separation between free consult calls vs paid discovery/strategy sessions…this one is for you.
If you’d like more guidance, scripts and a more “handheld” approach to offering paid discovery, Shannon has a full Paid Discovery Mastery Course!
Normally $500, only $297 for members of Pro AND for a limited time, you can get this same discount even if you're not yet a member of Pro!
Use code coupon code PAIDDISCOVERYPRO at checkout.
Big thanks to the sponsors for our upcoming Web Designer Pro CON 2025 event! We couldn't make such a top-notch event for my community without their support 🙏
17hats (for proposals, invoicing, contracts and automation)
SiteGround (for website hosting)
Termageddon (for auto-updating privacy po
Hey friends, popping in here with a bonus episode of the Web Design Business Podcast. I think I'm going to do more of these bonus additional episodes that are outside of the normal numbered interview and official solo style episodes. The reason I wanted to share this with you is this is a recent guest training that my good friend, shannon Mattern of the Web Designer Academy did for my web design community, web Designer Pro, and it's all about paid discovery. Paid discovery is a hot topic nowadays, and one reason I wanted to share this with you even everyone outside of Web Designer Pro is that there's so much opportunity to add paid discovery into your business. If I was starting in web design today, I would 100% do this, and it's also a great way to have a little bit of a revenue boost. So, for all those reasons and more, even if you're not yet a member of Web Designer Pro, I wanted to share this with you Now.
Speaker 1:This is the audio of the presentation. There's a lot of visuals that we covered and there's additional resources that are still only available for this inside of Web Designer Pro with the official training replay. So I would encourage you, if you've been on the fence, to jump in Web Designer Pro when you join the community level. This is the type of thing you get access to. You get access to these live guest expert trainings that we usually hold once a month. You get access to the live Q&A After this training.
Speaker 1:Actually, over half of this call here is mostly Q&A, so you'll get to see what we do in Web Designer Pro and hear the kind of things that we do. So, yeah, paid discovery that's what we're going to cover in this one You'll hear. Part one is the actual training that Shannon shared with us, and then part two is the Q&A session that we had with members who were live during this call. So, without further ado, here's Shannon Mattern. She does mention her paid discovery mastery course, which I'm actually going to give you, as a listener of this podcast, the same discount that Web Designer Pro members have. So jump down to the description wherever you listen and you will have the same discount to jump into her full course. If you like this and want more, jump in her course and, as always, jump into Web Designer Pro when you're ready. All right, let's talk paid discovery.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me, and it's good to see some familiar names in the chat Because, yeah, like Josh said, you guys have been wanting to learn this for a long time, so I'm very excited to share this with you. So please feel free to ask your questions during this training. Josh will make sure that I answer them all. At the end. I'm going to go through my full presentation because I want to make sure I get through everything, and then we'll have plenty of time at the end for Q&A.
Speaker 2:So, for those of you that don't know me, I am Shannon Mattern, founder and CEO of the Web Designer Academy. I live here in Columbus, ohio. Josh and I are kind of neighbors. We live about a half hour away from each other, which is so fun because we get to meet up for coffee and talk about you guys and plan on how we can help you really create the freedom and flexibility and financial independence that you all are here to create, and so we share a very similar mission, and it's so fun to just get to be a part of what you all are doing together. So today I'm going to walk you through why to offer paid discovery? Why bother adding this as a step in your process. I'm going to give you a detailed overview of the strategy as detailed as I can during our time together and answer any questions that you have. We officially rolled this strategy out in the Web Designer Academy back in June. I loved seeing in the comments for today's training that Mark had already tried out this strategy. Jennifer tried out this strategy and they're like oh, I love it, it's so good. So I'm really excited to share that with you because our students are also loving it. They're seeing such a powerful shift in their sales process how quickly they're booking clients people booking at more than what they say their budget is. And so, one of the things that you guys might recall, josh was on a panel with Kyle from the admin bar last fall I think it was from the admin bar last fall, I think it was and they were going through the admin bar survey results and there were several stats that jumped out at me, but one that really jumped out at me was this one about without paid discovery only 12% of web designers average over $5,000 a project and with paid discovery, 68% do. And I know that because you're in here in Web Designer Pro our students in Web Designer Academy. We're helping you beat those odds anyway.
Speaker 2:But when we added the paid discovery process to our already existing processes, when you add it to what Josh is teaching you in Web Designer Pro, what was happening with our students was crazy. So one of our students, rachel, was like I feel like I've hit this revenue ceiling with how she was making her offers. She was able to book five-figure $20,000 web design packages, premium packages, but she wasn't really able to break beyond that. And so she was like so I started doing this thing I know you guys probably do this too in Web Designer Pro. You're like I took this thing that you taught me and I added some of my own flair to it. And here's what's happening and I'd love and Rachel was like I would love to share this with the rest of the Web Designer Academy. And so we had her teach the course and she's like I don't want to teach the sales part. Shannon, can you teach the sales part? I'll teach the strategy part, and let's offer this just like as a standalone course. So whether you're offering it, like with the processes Josh teaches you or what we teach you, or you're adding it to your existing processes like we want you making more for what you do. What you do is so, so valuable.
Speaker 2:So what is paid discovery? What is paid discovery? So paid discovery is where you sell the strategy portion of your project, separate from the project itself. So a lot of you guys put one in the chat if you have a strategy process that you do with the client either after they book your package or sometimes you do it before on the discovery call. Put a two in the chat if you do with the client either after they book your package or sometimes you do it like before on the discovery call. Like you have a. Put a two in the chat if you do like a really in-depth discovery call with like a really in-depth proposal. Or put a one in the chat if you typically do that piece after you have sold the project yeah, mark typically was doing it. Does it after he sold the project yeah, mark typically was doing it. Does it after he sells the project. So paid discovery is where you do this piece first. Right, so you're already doing strategy, whether you think you are or not.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are like I don't do strategy, like I just yeah. So Liz says most people are doing it after you book the project, judah's doing it after, liz is doing it after Ben says I feel like the strategy stuff comes up in that first intro meeting most of the time. So Pam's the one, brian does it before. So you're doing this piece anyway and a lot of people think like, oh, I don't have a specific strategy. You do. You have a way that you figure out what the client needs to be able to deliver what they want and you're either doing it for free on your consultations so that you can put together a proposal for the client with like pricing and scoping and all of that, or you're doing it after you've booked the project and you've, like, baked it into your price right.
Speaker 2:So with paid discovery, you break that piece out of your project and you do it first as a paid project separately and then, if the client you sell them a paid discovery offer, first you do the whole strategy, you present the strategy to them and then you make an offer for implementing the strategy. And if the client books the full project with you, you take what they paid for discovery and you credit it towards their web design project. If they decide to not move forward with you, they keep the strategy, maybe they do it themselves, maybe they take it to another designer. You got paid for your time and ideas. So so that's like paid discovery in a nutshell, like Josh said. He explained it to his daughter like getting paid to get paid for your ideas. But it really is so much more than that. It's an additional step in the offer making process that, when done correctly, will help you confidently sell higher-priced web design packages. So what we're seeing was it's really about building trust with the client, which I'll talk to you about in a second.
Speaker 2:So here's what paid discovery is not. It's not a standalone paid consultation or strategy call. You don't offer these like one-off, as just like oh, buy this paid discovery package. It is something that you offer to someone who's considering a whole web design project with you. It's not a paid consultation or strategy session where you don't make any other offers. It's not a paid consultation or strategy session where you don't make any other offers. It's not like putting together a logo and brand style guide and then offering to build a website off the back end. It's not doing like a small test amount of work first and then doing the rest if you like working together and they want to book with you.
Speaker 2:The strategy itself is the deliverable that they are paying for, and then you make an offer to implement the strategy after you deliver it. So the results of this it works so, so well, and this is what we hear from people who are implementing this strategy inside the Web Designer Academy. People have just like bought the course without being in either Pro or Web Designer Academy, that every single project people are booking after this paid discovery engagement has been a higher paying project or the highest priced project that they ever Higher prices than they're selling with a proposal only. So why does it work so well? Two reasons. The first reason is because you build so much trust with your clients through this process of discovery that they can't imagine working with anyone else but you and they're committed to this process. So they've engaged you, they've paid, they're committed to this process.
Speaker 2:But the second reason is that you also, through the process of going through this paid discovery process, you end up selling yourself on the value of a project at prices that used to scare you without even blinking an eye, right. So you end up taking this client through the processes as you're going through the process that we teach. You're selling yourself on this the whole time, whereas before you might have charged $5,000 for all of this. You have this realization that this is actually a $10,000 project or a $20,000 project, and you believe in that at your core, that that is the price, and you don't hesitate to tell the client that Lisa's like I've got to do paid discovery. I'm so excited for all of you to add this to your process. So here's why it works so well.
Speaker 2:When you're selling high-ticket offers like web design projects, there are three boxes for lack of a better word that your offers need to check in the brain of your client in order for them to be willing to take the risk of allocating their resources to the project their time, their money, their energy, their capacity. And, josh, I don't know what you guys have been seeing in Web Designer Pro, but what we've been seeing in the Web Designer Academy is that what used to work to get clients to say yes doesn't work as fast. It still works, but clients are taking a longer time to make decisions. They want to be more certain than ever that they're going to get the return on their investment and that they're making the right decision, because everything else, the world feels very uncertain. I was talking about this recently on the podcast, about how, like pandemic happened, everybody's world changed on a dime. We thought it was going to go back to the way it was.
Speaker 2:Maybe a lot of things didn't go back to the way it was, and I think that, like collective uncertainty, makes people a little bit hesitant to make big decisions right, like working with you on their 5K to five-figure web design project, and so, in order for them to be willing to take that risk, they have to feel like it's worth their time and money. Not that you, the designer, are worth their time and money, but that it, the designer, are worth their time and money, but that it the result of the projects, the outcomes that they can create as a result of working with you, are worth their time and money. That is a very important distinction. They are not buying you. They are buying the results that working with you will create for them, and they need to believe that what you will create for them will help them reach their goals. They need enough information to be able to do that and they have to believe it. So they have to believe that they have the time, money and capacity to move forward and or that working with you will create more time, money and capacity for them and that it's worth it to them. So that's one of the boxes that you need to check. They also need to trust you and trust that you can help them solve their problems and reach their goals, and a lot of ways that we, as web designers, try to build trust is through our portfolio and through our website and through our messaging and our copy.
Speaker 2:All of those things are awesome, and paid discovery can skip over all of that and fast track that. So if you don't have those things and you want to build trust with your clients, all you need to do is sell them on a paid discovery step and then the process of the paid discovery step builds all of that trust without you needing to have a portfolio. It's really helpful if you don't have a niche and you're not like, oh, I'm established as an expert in this niche because maybe you're still experimenting with what niche you want to choose, or maybe you don't really have an industry niche. Paid discovery helps you not have to declare that yet and you're still able to go through a process through the paid discovery process, build that trust and credibility with your clients. And then the third piece of mitigating risk for clients or the key to selling, being able to more easily sell projects is autonomy.
Speaker 2:Your clients need to feel like they have choices, like they have options, like they are never trapped or backed into a corner. And so when you're having this initial discovery call and you're putting your package in front of them, it's a big commitment. For some people it's like a big hurdle If they don't already have this trust with you, if you haven't, if they haven't reached that level, it's like a big commitment for them to say yes to thousands of dollars, right? So paid discovery creates like choices all along the way and you'll see how, because I'm going to walk you through this entire process. They also need to feel like the value.
Speaker 2:In order to sell a high ticket project, your client must need to feel like the value is greater than the price, meaning the emotional outcomes, the personal outcomes, the business outcomes that they'll create as a result of working with you feels to them like way more than the price that you're charging. Working with you feels to them like way more than the price that you're charging, and so what we end up doing is we leave it. Typically, as web designers, it's like oh well, we'll leave it to them to paint that picture for themselves of the value, and what paid discovery does is allows you to paint the picture for them in a really natural, authentic way of here, based on everything that you told me, that you value, that you want, that you're here to create. Here's what this looks like, and you paint the picture of the value for them, so you're not just assuming that they get it. You know so much more about the value of what a website with you can create for them than they do. Paid discovery gives you an option to paint the picture for them.
Speaker 2:So the other piece of this, though, is that you, in order to sell anything in order to sell anything, whether it's $500 or $5,000 or $50,000, you, as the designer, also need to believe that the value to your client is greater than the price. If you don't believe it, your voice will waver. You'll do weird things like you'll delay sending your proposal, you'll overwork on creating proposals, you'll stuff your proposal full of stuff that they don't need and can't use in the next two years in order to justify your price, or you'll lower your price, you'll over-deliver and burn yourself out because you won't be in alignment with your pricing if you don't believe that the value is greater than the price. And that is why paid discovery is so awesome. It's awesome for the client, don't get me wrong, but it's awesome for you because it helps you sell yourself on the price. It shows the client exactly what it will look like to work with you ahead of time Not only for your client, but for you right. It gives them all of the information that they don't know they need to know about the project. It shows them exactly how much time, money and energy that they'll need to commit. It builds trust. It positions you as the expert. It does all of this stuff that you're trying to get your website to do for you, and they're not paying as much attention to your website as you want them to. But you have a captive audience through paid discovery where you're painting this picture for them specifically. So it builds trust, positions you as the expert, but it also helps you sell yourself on the price.
Speaker 2:So many of you are like I can't charge that much for this, and it's like when you lead your client through this process, you're like I could actually charge them twice as much, twice as much than what I thought I could never charge. If you're like I can never charge $10,000 for that, you're like $10,000 is a steal, I should be charging $20,000, but I'm going to charge them 10. So it just really helps them paint that picture of what's possible when they work with you. It shows them all the things that they don't know, that they need to know. So it gives them autonomy. Because when you're like, hey, and I'm going to walk you through this exact process, it gives them autonomy. It's like, hey, here's what we could do. They don't have to agree to your paid discovery to work with you.
Speaker 2:If you decide that, you're going to give them a choice Would you like to do paid discovery or would you like a traditional proposal? Like a traditional proposal, when you deliver the paid discovery portion, you're going to say, hey, would you like me to implement this project or would you like to take it somewhere else? You won't say it exactly like that, but you're giving them choice and autonomy every single step of the way. They don't have to move forward. There's no bait and switch, as you'll see, and the entire process just intrinsically meets those three core needs of closing. I say closing high ticket sales. I hate the way that sounds. That's not what it is. It's helping them make a decision to work with you and it's helping you choose a price that's set pricing that's profitable and sustainable for you to deliver, so that you can actually not be undercharging, overworking and have the life and business that you want to have. So I'm going to take a second, because I know I see some questions popping up in the chat and I know I'm going to answer a lot of these in here. But yeah, I just want to make sure that there wasn't anything that I missed before I move forward.
Speaker 2:So Mark said one of the things I found fascinating in paid discovery was that they weren't ready for a new website yet. They had some work to do, which would have been a massive derailment if we got to that problem in the development process. Yes, such a good point, mark. You also get to catch a lot of red flags in a paid discovery process where you're like, oh, this project would have been. This client would have been a terrible fit for me, this project wouldn't have been right, they actually don't need this and you save yourself a lot of headache ahead of time. But you didn't do all that work for free. Your idea is so valuable, your experience is so valuable, you get to treat it like consulting and you don't have to give that away for free just to get the sale. It's valuable for you to sell that. And Jennifer, to that point, said I realized super quick the value I was providing and how much I was giving them was way more than what I first charged. So, um, there are so many good comments in here. Um yeah, so um, awesome. Thank you, josh, for keeping track of questions for me.
Speaker 2:Okay, so here's the process. You're going to do your marketing to get clients. Obviously, you need clients to be able to offer paid discovery, so you're going to create the opportunity to have a consultation and so in that consultation you'll do your normal like question process. But there's probably a lot of things that you do in the consultation process that still might fall into paid discovery. But you're going to go through your consultation process Normally.
Speaker 2:At the point of a consultation where you would make an offer or let them know that an offer is forthcoming, you will offer them paid discovery and you'll say, hey, here's how we can move forward working together. We have scripts for all of this in the paid discovery mastery class that we have that, josh, pinned at the top of the chat. So thank you, josh. But you'll say something like hey, here are our options for moving forward. We can do a traditional proposal, or we can do and you can call this whatever you want. People typically don't call it paid discovery. You could name it whatever you want. Some people call it like a project blueprint, whatever, but I'm going to say paid discovery for just clarity purposes. Or we can do this paid discovery engagement. So here's how it works.
Speaker 2:We will go through this strategic process of discovering all the requirements, putting together a plan, all of that, and we'll use that plan to like. I'll use that. I'll deliver that strategy to you, we'll scope out the whole entire strategy and you get to keep that strategy, whether or not we work together. If, at the end of this paid discovery process, you want to move forward, I will be giving you pricing and options for how we can move forward working together on the project. There's no obligation to work with me. Either way, you walk away with this strategy. It's yours to keep.
Speaker 2:Or we can go the traditional proposal route, where I take everything that you've told me here today. I put together a proposal for you. I give that to you with pricing, and the difference between the two is that with paid discovery, I have everything I need to guarantee the price within the scope and I don't use the word guarantee in the scripts, but that's basically what you're saying Versus with a proposal, potentially, if we discover that there are changes, there could be some additional change orders, the pricing could shift, things like that. So you're giving them all of the information to basically say, if we do pay discovery, I have everything. I need to put a price on this that won't change unless they add stuff afterwards. If we do proposal, if we get into this project and then it does change, the price will adjust accordingly. And then you let them decide. And if they're like I want a proposal, cool, you give them a proposal.
Speaker 2:You do your normal process. But most people are like yeah, let's do the discovery first and then you'll credit the price of the discovery to that project. So when you go to make the offer in step six which I'll talk about in a second you're like here's the price minus the paid discovery. That puts you at X. Would you like to move forward and get this booked, or whatever you say. So you make the offer for paid discovery on the consultation. If they say no, you just move on to your normal process. But if they say yes, then you send them an invoice contract. You get the discovery call booked.
Speaker 2:We have a process for a 90-minute discovery call. You hold that call with them. You ask them, we give you a workbook, we give you scripts for everything. You ask them all the questions, then you go away and you develop the strategy. We also give you slides on how to present that strategy. That is where you get to use your unique skillset as a designer to develop the strategy. But we give you some guidelines on what that could look like describing their target audience to them, weaving in their goals. We go through all of that with you. If you use our strategy but you get to weave in your own unique pieces and then you present the strategy to them. So you have a second call where you present the strategy. That call is for strategy only and then, separately, you will send them an offer to implement the strategy, because we don't want to mix the strategy and the sale. We truly want this to be like we delivered a product to you. This is your product. There's no sale attached to this, but separately. I'm going to make an offer to you to implement this strategy and then you can decide.
Speaker 2:And what we're seeing from our students is that people are like I couldn't not work with you based on everything that you did. You understand this so fully. You took the time to listen. I feel more understood than I ever have and it's a yes. And I know I said my budget was X, but we talk about tiered pricing in the Web Designer Academy and people are always like and I want your highest package. So that's typically what happens, and so I want to kind of go through.
Speaker 2:I'll give you guys this, this link I created like a mirror board to outline this whole process. It's a little, it's a little intense, but I'll put the link into it in the chat. So you just have all of these steps, because whether you work with us or you just need to rearrange some things that you're already doing. These are the steps of the process to our workflow, right? So we'll give you all the scripts, the templates, the slides, how we say to sell it, how to run that call, all of the things. But you might be able to remix what you're already doing to fit this process. But this process that I'm going to share with you builds that autonomy, choice, all of those things into the presentation of the offer, because you could say like, yeah, I'll do paid discovery, but to really get the full power of paid discovery, you need to check those three boxes, and so that's why our process is the way that it is.
Speaker 2:Brian said I would think paid discovery would mean more of paid strategy. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's the same thing, and so, depending on how detailed you want to get with this, it depends on your offer, what you do, what you do for your clients. It's basically all that work you do to plan out how you're going to do the project. You're just doing it upfront, separately, as part of your sales process. Yeah, lisa's like I'm already thinking this. Yes, this is your workflow to build this out in Moxie, lisa. So you're going to do your outreach.
Speaker 2:Someone will book the consult, complete your intake form. This is just our Web Designer Academy process. I know Josh has your pre-qualification page where you would make the client go away. So we have our red flags. We always tell our students you can decline a project for any reason whatsoever. You don't have to even talk to the person, but you'll do the consultation. You don't have to even talk to the person, but you'll do the consultation. You'll offer paid discovery.
Speaker 2:If they say no we call it an irresistible package, matrix but if they say yes, then you'll send the paid discovery invoice, terms and conditions. You'll send a kickoff email with a workbook that you'll ask them to fill out before the call, a link to schedule the call. If they don't pay, you don't send that stuff, you send a follow-up and when they finally pay, then they're an actual client. I know that this is basic, one-on-one level stuff, but we don't want you to do the paid discovery until you get paid. Yes, please sell this for at least $500. That should be your minimum price for paid discovery. So then you'll send and I have to fight with our Web Designer Academy students on this too, because they undercharge for their paid discovery and then they're like it takes me too much time and I'm like, because this is a product you should get paid for, like $500 is a steal, so have it be at least 500.
Speaker 2:Send the kickoff email with all of the details of what to expect ahead of time. We have some ways to like send reminders so that the yeah, exactly. Then you'll do the 30-minute discovery call with the client or do the 90-minute discovery call with the client and then on that call, you're going to schedule the call to review the discovery. So you're going to put your next date in the calendar. Give yourself enough time especially when you're new at this to go through everything, put together the plan, all of the things. So don't turn around and be like, okay, great, we're going to meet tomorrow and I'm going to present this to you. Give yourself enough time and then you're going to do your analysis, use your brain, put together your strategy and then you'll create your paid discovery presentation. We give you slides that have the things that we think are the most important thing to include in your strategy, but you're going to have other stuff. So then we recommend you, before you meet with a client, you record yourself going through the strategy, like a Loom video or something, and you send that to the client before your call. That you do together so that the time spent on that call is you asking them questions. Give them time to watch this, give them time to sit with it, give them time to develop their questions and then on the call, you'll review all of that Right and you'll also record your video of the strategy. Then you'll put together your proposal. We call it Irresistible Package Matrix.
Speaker 2:In the Web Designer Academy I know Josh has. He teaches you guys how to do proposals in here. You'll put together your separate proposal and you'll be like I have everything I need to put together a really awesome proposal for them. You'll do. We teach our students to record themselves going through the proposal for the client. I don't know how you guys do it in here, but then you'll do the review call with the client and then you'll send over after that, like here's what it looks like to implement this with you. You may choose to do that on the call. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Some people, if you're scared of sales, you sometimes want to separate that and practice doing that on your own, and then the more confident you get, you're like I can do this all on the call and it doesn't feel salesy to me and I know that's why they're here and I don't have to mess around with that. But going through the call really a lot like going through the proposal on the call gives you the opportunity to tie back every single thing you put in that proposal to what they told you that they valued throughout this discovery process. So then you're like hey, this was awesome. Here's your discovery, this is yours to keep and I'm going to follow this up with some options for us to work together. And you're going to send that over to them and your proposal is going to expire. So they don't have forever to make this decision. They can always come back to you later. And then you're like well, my new pricing is double now and I'll credit your paid discovery to that. But you came back to back to you later. And then you're like well, my new pricing is double now and I'll credit your paid discovery to that. But you came back to me a year later. That proposal is expired. I'd be happy to put together some new pricing for you. We all know this happens.
Speaker 2:You have a client that comes out of the woodwork and then you book the project or you don't, but you got paid for your time so you should charge accordingly. But more more often than not you are going to book the project or like um, like someone mentioned in the chat that you discover it's actually not a good fit for you to work together. It's in neither of your best interests. Maybe the discovery process was a freaking nightmare and you don't want to work with this client at all. Then you don't have to give them options.
Speaker 2:At the end you can be like, hey, here's your strategy and I don't think I'm the right person to work with you on this project. But you can take that and go find the right person. So that's it in a nutshell, and I could talk about like all of this stuff more. But I want to get into um. I want to get into your questions, because this is like what is happening with our, with our clients, and it's so fun because you're not selling, you're getting to just put together strategy and share that with them and get them just as excited about it as you are. So, yeah, lots of good questions. Josh, you want to?
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you left some time for questions because, yeah, we've got plenty here Thanks to the circle Q&A box. We can jump right in here. So first off, Shannon, thank you for all this. This is great. I got a couple of questions we'll link in here as well. And again, a lot has been said in the chat. As you mentioned, and Mark rightly mentioned, it is impossible to keep up with a web designer pro chat.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Yeah, I know, I was like there's so much good stuff happening in there and it's like Yep, so let's dive into some questions real quick.
Speaker 1:Ben had the first one here Long question. If you guys would just try to condense the question so we can just get right to it. But this is all good. Ben always has good thoughts on this stuff. So let me just get to the question. My fear is that if I force it, I won't get sales calls. Yeah, if I don't try to make it work, then I feel like I'm giving a lot of value away for free. I feel like that's probably a common objection. Shannon, your thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is such a good question, Ben, because you are not necessarily telling people before they book a sales call with you that this is even an option. So you said you've been offering paid strategy session for months, but nobody has taken me up on it. We still say offer a free discovery call, like the way that you would normally have a conversation with someone about working together. That part gets to be a free conversation that you don't charge for. It's on that conversation that you then offer this option of strategy. So I don't know if that's what I've been, If that's what you've been doing, but that's just a good point of clarification. You're not going to be like you have to pay me for us to even have a conversation about your website.
Speaker 1:And Shannon. One question I had about this was I feel like with this process, we would need to so clearly Let me take this one up real quick we would need to so clearly separate the terms consultation, discovery strategy. Is that right? To just make it super clear, even for our sake, to know what's free and what is paid. And, by the way, everybody, my process of weeding clients out before you do a free call still applies here. Like paid, discovery would just be offered in the consultation call.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have a step where you're like I'm weeding you out before we even get on a consultation. I think of a consultation as a free conversation, that's like. And then on that consultation, I might not even offer anything on that consultation, because on that consultation I might be like, yeah, actually we're not a good fit for anything, so that's like a checkpoint for you. But then it's on the consultation that you'll be like look, we have two options for working together, et cetera. And then we don't call it paid discovery on the front end to our client. You can People call it a strategy blueprint or a strategy session. Come up with a name that really says what they get out of it. And then that's what you're charging for and you're explaining why you're doing this upfront. And then I don't know how much mindset coaching you want to get me to get into. But with Ben's question about like someone saying that someone else said yeah, people won't even pay for a conversation around here, I would. Yeah, we can come back to that Like with if we have time.
Speaker 1:Yep, let's go to Carolyn or Carolyn's question. Can you see the spotlight? Is that working all right for you, shannon, or is it not coming up?
Speaker 2:No, I don't see anything.
Speaker 1:OK, I don't know, maybe I accidentally affected.
Speaker 2:When you say spotlight, do you mean, like, the question showing on the screen?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I did that first time the question showing on the screen. Yeah, I did that first time, okay, when you showed ben's question. Sorry, for some reason it's not coming up for us right now. Let me. Well, if you want, shannon, you can go to the live q a box and then we could go together and I see it says spotlighted over carolyn's question yeah, I don't know. Uh, let me look into that while you're answering that, carolyn's question yeah.
Speaker 2:So carolyn says at what point in the discovery process do you introduce this example? Contacted through gbp, but they know nothing about you. Um, what is gbp contact right?
Speaker 1:google business profile gotcha okay.
Speaker 2:so yeah, like on the actual consultation, like you don't have to even have this as anything on your website until, like some people, once they nail down their process, they'll, and they list their process on their website. If that's what you do, they might like list it as their, as a part of their process, but it's not like a service that's on your website or anything. It's something that you talk to someone about. On the consultation, so yeah, you introduce it in that consultation call as an option, and sometimes projects are so simple and straightforward that paid discovery wouldn't even add to it. It's really at your discretion whether you would offer it.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, all right. Well, I'm sorry about the spotlight guys. I'll have to see. I'll send this into Circle to make sure they know our spotlight thing has disappeared for us. Oh wait a minute. Oh, there we go. It was me. I knew it was my fault. Ah, I'm sorry. Heads up for any Circle users. I minimized the spotlight. I thought that just reduced the actual question and actually took the entire spotlight window off. So to Michelle's question. Shannon, have you seen? Oh, go ahead if you want. Shannon, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I just read it out loud because it helps my brain process the answer. But can you walk us through the rationale for making the money they paid to become a credit on the implementation package? I'm totally sold on the concept of paid discovery, but I'm usually so resistant to seeming to be discounting. Have you seen people make more success by making a credit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is such an interesting question. You're not discounting your package, you're just saying like, oh, we already did this part, because, think about it, if they went to the traditional proposal, if they skipped paid discovery, you aren't going to charge less because you're still doing that after the fact. Let's say you charge $10,000 for the package and you do the paid discovery up front. And I'm just going to throw out what people think is a crazy number, but your ideas are so valuable $1,000 for paid discovery. They paid $1,000 up front and then you sold them on the rest of the package later, and then you're delivering that piece. But if they skip the paid discovery, you're not going to just charge $9,000. You're going to charge $10,000. So they're either paying for it ahead of time or after the fact, and it's all about giving them choices, creating autonomy, giving you the chance to build that trust and you're not discounting it Does that answer the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that idea too, shannon, of you're almost like selling a part of the process first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the part that they like really understand to decide that am I going to pay you that much? For the rest of it, you could sell it for $5,000, but it's really worth $10,000. And paid discovery helps you both see that it's worth more.
Speaker 1:So Mark had a couple of questions that were similar as far as when and where to place this, and I know there's some similar questions to this as well. What's the best way to place this on our website? Should we list it as a separate service or is it just a part of the process? Our websites.
Speaker 2:Should we list it as a separate service or is it just a part of the process? I don't. We don't list it as a separate service because it's not somebody that someone can just book with you off the street. It's part of your sales process. So, like I mentioned, it's not a separate service. You don't just buy Discovery with no intention of doing a website with me, because if that was a service you were selling, you would sell it for way more than what you're selling it to like.
Speaker 1:Recoup that when you do the project with the person do you recommend having like a page or a pdf or something that somebody could outline and say, like our paid discovery process includes this and this and this is what you get like? Would it be like a hidden page or something that you actually say that.
Speaker 2:Here's my thought on this. If you, if it's gonna like, keep you from offering this for like a month while you get all of that together on your website, I would say no, just start offering, just start offering it. Just start offering it now, once you really hone your process right. People say you buy our paid discovery mastery course, you get our process and you're going to tweak it to match your business. Once you now know exactly how you like to offer it, sure, you could put a page on your website, but I'm all about build the plane as it flies. So just start offering it and then, once you are like okay, this is my process, this is why it works Then build that page. If you feel like you need to because I don't even really think that you need to I think all you need to do is create the opportunity for a consultation and then you get to talk about it on that consultation.
Speaker 1:Heck. Yeah, liz, in with. There's no silly question in pro, by the way, guys. Now Liz is a marketing strategist. First, she's looking to outsource her web design. Does it make sense to offer paid discovery? Oh, I see Shannon ready to rock and roll. I'm excited about this, so maybe more so than ever. So I do this initial work and then hand it over to my subcontractor. Is that a standard practice? Great question, liz.
Speaker 2:I think you get to decide what a standard practice for your business. You get to make all of the rules and do things how you want to do things. So that's that. But yeah, so if you're the marketing strategist first and you're like, okay, I'm going to do this paid discovery with the client to scope out what they really need, based on my marketing expertise, and then I'm going to charge for that, and then, off the back end, I'm going to be like here's what it looks like for us to implement this, and I would imagine, liz, that you're going to be the project manager for that implementation and make sure that the subcontractor builds to your specs and all of those things. Yeah, totally it does. It makes total sense to do that, especially in your case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was actually just thinking. Maybe even more so for a marketing strategy like this is If I was Personally, if I was doing marketing and websites, I would probably make paid discovery a non-negotiable, because there's so much to figure out outside of just building a website.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's like for a growth plan, like paid discovery. To figure out what the growth plan, like you, teach, let's do a paid discovery engagement and then, off the back end, I'm going to make a recommendation for you for a growth plan. It doesn't even have to be a website.
Speaker 1:Caleb in with a good question. I've got some thoughts, but I of course want to hear what Shannon says. I feel like you'll probably take the words right out of my mouth. Do you have different packages or pricing for paid discovery based on your understanding of the scope of the project after that initial conversation?
Speaker 2:Although that is a good question, because paid discovery for a simple brochure site quote unquote, simple is probably very different than a huge eCommerce site with 100 products so people do this in different ways and this is where there is like a line between actually doing any implement like you have to stop, like we have to stop ourselves from doing any implementation work in the discovery phase. I mean, I know there are some things you might have to like test out and try out, to like make a recommendation. Um, I, the way, I'll just say the way we teach it is no, it's a flat price for um, for paid discovery, and but I, I don't say I wouldn't say that you can't do it Like I think it just depends. I really think it depends on the project. I would say, caleb, test it out and see what works for you, because I'd have to like, yeah, josh, jump in.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know it does prompt a really good question about charging for paid discovery, in that if you have a niche or common projects, it's probably pretty. It's very easier to quickly do a paid discovery roadmap or strategy. But if projects are very different, it does beg the question like, are we essentially doing paid discovery off of our time? Is it like, what can I get done in like you know, a couple hours with this paid discovery? So I guess that's a yeah.
Speaker 2:so I think that it kind of is like and so what we, what we teach currently is a process like a. I don't want to diminish it by saying cookie cutter, because it is a very in-depth process, but it has a process right. It has questions that you ask the client and it has based on their answers. Here's how to synthesize that information to present them with a strategy and a plan. And those questions, whether that that's e-commerce or a service-based site or like whatever, you're going to arrive at a recommendation.
Speaker 2:I think that where it does get not tricky but like it could become a bigger thing, is like do I have to research platforms? Like, do I just do some research on software? Do I have to like, dig into test if this recommendation that I'm going to make is going to actually work? Like, what is the level of hands-on required? And at that point I might be like, if I'm adding, like strategy and research, I might charge differently than just strategy alone, charged differently than just strategy alone If there's some additional, if I have to go talk to your customer, if there's any additional market research things I might need to do or tech research, I would consider increasing that price.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea, shannon, separating common strategy versus research, because that is more time intensive and customized. I think, going back to Liz's question, with marketing you could probably do almost like a bundled strategy, like a bundled paid discovery, which is like marketing plan, website plan that leads into that, and then, yeah, that might require research as well. Great questions, guys. This is a good one too. Pandora wanted to know, I hope does this only work for builds, or could it work for maintenance and growth plans too? You kind of hinted at this, shannon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it's great for builds, but I also think it's really like it's super helpful for growth plans. In terms of maintenance, I guess it just depends on how you structure your maintenance, like who the client is. The way that I would see paid discovery working in terms of maintenance, I'm trying to align this with what a Josh Hall defined maintenance plan is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So my two cents on this is that it's actually an incredible time to upsell the maintenance plan and support plan, even if you just plant the seed, because if you do a roadmap for a client, a strategy session, paid discovery, all the same thing then you could say in the next 12 months, these are the type of things I'd recommend doing. Phase one is this Once the site goes live, which is phase one. Phase two we now offer our support plan and this is what you get with that, and then that could also lead to a growth plan, either immediately or maybe eventually. If there's a lot of work to do, that's one time. Then I would go towards doing the roadmap. That's more about the build with support, and then, once they get to a certain point, then you offer the growth plan.
Speaker 1:But there may be clients where it's like, listen, they've got something up already and the build is a part of the growth plan, in which case up already and the build is a part of the growth plan, in which case maintenance plans are like a line item on a growth plan. But remember, anytime somebody wants to cancel a growth plan, they have your support plan as a backup, so you still have that baseline. Mrr, that's my thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was just thinking while you were saying that if there is a new project that a client wants to do with you, that they're, like you know, thinking that it could just be tucked right into like ongoing maintenance, paid discovery is a great way to be like. Let's do an in-depth like strategy blueprint for this thing, and then I'll be able to like tell you how this fits in with everything else. I think there's lots of different ways you could pull that card.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Lisa said in the chat, their maintenance plan is a non-negotiable, so they will only work with people for the maintenance as long as they're on their hosting and maintenance plan. I agree with that as well, and you can even structure that to say, when you work with us, you get a year of our plan potentially, or it's like we do your hosting maintenance for up to a year and then you'll have the ability to move on elsewhere. But there wouldn't be a reason to so absolutely. I think it's an incredible time to upsell that. Last few questions here, guys, since we're up at an hour right now. Shannon, how are you on time? Do you have a few more minutes to go over the hour?
Speaker 2:I'm good Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, cool. So last round for final questions here, guys. Carolyn, not hogging the spotlight at all because I didn't have your last question spotlighted Do you have scripts in your course, shannon, your paid discovery course?
Speaker 2:Yes, we tell you every single word to say at every single step of every interaction from the client, except for the strategy. You have to come up with that yourself. So, yeah, we like to hold your hand through that and then you will take it eventually and like make it your own thing. But we bake in like all of the autonomy and where you give them the choice and how you, what you say when you make the offer, and all of that. So it just feels like really natural to you, especially if you choke on discovery calls, like I'm sure Josh and I both used to.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, James, want to know how would you determine the paid discovery as opposed to the free discovery as senior process? Real quick I? I just. This is why I mentioned like the term consultation versus discovery, or maybe discovery is free and maybe strategy is what is essentially paid. What are your thoughts on that, Shannon?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's all semantics. I mean, you have an initial conversation with a person to invite them to take the next step with you and that next step is paid. So you do something free to have an initial consultation and the next step is paid. Either it is paid strategy, paid discovery or a paid project. And so I think that if you're asking like, well, what's the difference between what I ask them on the free consultation and what I ask them in the paid discovery?
Speaker 2:I don't know what you teach, but in the Web Designer Academy, like, we ask a series of questions in the consultation to like, help us scope the project, and then in our kickoff call, after they've booked, we gather like the information that we need to execute the project. We don't do that for free upfront, we do that like after we've done the proposal and then we're like okay, here's everything. Paid discovery is almost like a mid it's not even a mid-level step but in the discovery, in the paid discovery, you're getting a lot of information about, like, their business, their market, their desires, their goals, their challenges, their opportunities, and you're really putting together like a plan. That's like if there were no limitation, not no limitations, you're going to be realistic, but it's like let me paint the picture for you of what this could look like if we work together and what's possible for you and your business. And that requires asking more questions than someone might give you on a consultation call when they feel like they're being sold to.
Speaker 1:I was just envisioning this because this entire presentation, shannon, has really helped me. It's made me feel better, because I always felt like paid discovery was something that I just didn't really understand because I didn't really frame it as paid discovery. But what I've realized in this is that everything that I do, once a client signs on, we go right to basically a strategy session, which is this it's a paid strategy session, the difference being, to James' question, the initial consult call or free discovery call, if we want to call it either one of those terms. That is strictly what Shannon just said. You're just getting data from the client. You're getting challenges, you're getting goals. You're getting where they're at right now. You're getting scope of project.
Speaker 1:What they're not getting in the initial consult call is your plan of action and your map and your vision. That is what's paid, and even in my process, which I teach in the business course, as of now, what's paid and even in my process, which I teach in the business course, as of now, the free discovery call is what leads to the full proposal and then the first step of starting is what, essentially, is this paid discovery portion? So that's the difference. It's the difference between. You're almost like a therapist at first, and then you're like a doctor with paid discovery. You're like this is the plan.
Speaker 2:And I love that and also the reason that you would pull it out and put it up front is to create that autonomy and build that trust and give the client choices Because, like I mentioned at the beginning, there are so many ways that we spend so much time trying to build trust with our clients. Pulling this process out and doing it first before they pay for the whole sum, for the whole project, it skyrockets that trust building factor for you and when you start to actually charge what you should be charging, they're so much more willing to pay that because they're like oh, I see the value. You didn't give me a price ahead of time and now I'm backing into like, oh yeah, it was so worth it. You're setting that up ahead of time.
Speaker 1:Shannon, what are your thoughts on this? Because I feel like if you are a little more established as a web designer and agency owner, you probably have a pretty good feeling of what these type of roadmaps would look like. I would say a more established person could probably just sell it right up front. We don't do free calls, you do pay discovery or you do the project, whereas if somebody is working with this and getting started, I'd say, start with the free call, get the data and then offer strategy. But do you recommend and do you feel comfortable by telling people to say like, yeah, if you know of a lot of your digital roadmap, paid discovery plans look similar. Just that's the upfront offer before they even do a free call? Potentially, just that's the upfront offer before they even do a free call, potentially.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Rachel, who really helped us pioneer this process, and she works with high-end premium clients. I don't do client work anymore, so she's the one out there boots on the ground for lack of a better word doing this. She got to a point after her first three or four that she's like Yep, I like this, I've got the process nailed and I will not work with anyone unless they do this with us first. And so she has that level of she's reached her goals such that she is like this is required, her goals such that she is like this is required For other people who aren't like okay, now I'm to the point in my business where I actually do need to weed out clients and I am going to set some really high standards for someone to work with me, for someone who's still like Playing is not the right word, but still trying to figure out what they love and what they don't love and who they like to work with.
Speaker 2:Offering it for free and getting more confident at sales and learning to value what they do. Offering it for free and really figuring out how it fits in Not for free, sorry, offering it optionally. Anytime. I said free, just rewind that from your brain.
Speaker 1:Offering it optional, I think is a good thing to do Internally I mean, I know the term is paid discovery, but I think paid strategy is how I view this. I personally like consultation or discovery being, because discovery just sounds like I'm discovering. What are the challenges of this potential client. Strategy feels like this is the action plan, this is the roadmap, this is the game plan. So if it were me personally, I would draw the line between consultation and discovery being free and then strategy action plan being the paid part. And again, it's just phase one of what I teach in the business course, which is once a client pays you, what do you do? Strategy session call, which is this, which is what the people could buy early.
Speaker 2:Yep, and now you're just breaking it apart.
Speaker 1:Yes, the most important question that has come in to this point Shannon, your favorite coffee spot in Columbus? Because Mark's coming to Web Designer ProCon here soon.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's too far away from ProCon, so I worked at Cup of Joe back in the day, like way back in the day. So they will always have a place in my heart, even though they barely exist.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say all right, did they? Are they?
Speaker 2:I don't know they had that one location still um on high street in Clintonville, but I don't even know if it's still there. Um, yeah, that's a good question. Crim yeah, that's a good question. Crimson cup's always good, I'll give. I'll give crimson cup, but I like this. There's this um place out here in Granville where I live, called one love cafe and bike shop, and they sell Turkish coffee and they also have like a bike store where they, like you know, wrench on bicycles all day and they have like a really cool coworking area. So I am a coffee snob, though I really am.
Speaker 1:I love that. Uh, crimson cup at least made it to your top three, cause that's mine.
Speaker 2:Cause that's where we hang out. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:I don't choose to go there, but Josh is there, so true, we always have good conversations, which makes the coffee better.
Speaker 2:They have good seating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great seating. Hey, good news. There are two Cup of Joes in Columbus that are active Clintonville, like you mentioned, North High that's actually not too far from where we'll be and then Broad Street. That one's in the game. Oh, it's by CCAD, it's by the Columbus.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even know there was one there.
Speaker 1:Well, there we go. That's actually not far. I have to go check it out. Yeah, I had no idea. Okay, well, maybe we'll do our next hangout there, shannon, we'll try that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we should.
Speaker 1:I'll come packing A little sketchy in that area, but it'll be worth it. All right, last two questions. Lisa wanted to know, or this is her roadmap. So, shannon, let me know if you give the all clear on this or if you would change anything. 20-minute free call. We'll call that consultation or free discovery. Send proposal. Pay deposit. Start project date is set. Send strategy questionnaire. Have kickoff call. I'll be inserting the paid discovery after, or paid strategy after the discovery call.
Speaker 2:Yep. So after your 20-minute free call, offer paid discovery on that call. If they say yes, then follow the paid discovery flow. If they say no, follow your flow. Your Sun proposal paid deposit project start date.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. And then last question goes to Mara. Good one here. If you know your niche well, is it worth just skipping a $4,000 project? But his is so productized. There's no, there's not really. He doesn't even do much marketing.
Speaker 2:It's so dialed in that, yeah, I guess he doesn't need to do paid discovery for that productized, systematized thing because there is nothing to discover. He's telling you this is exactly what you need, this is what I build. I don't build anything other than this, so there's no discovery that needs to happen. I think it really depends on your business and your goals. But I think what you would be missing in the paid discovery process is the opportunity to really like sell that specific client on that specific vision and strategy that you have for them by going through that process, because it is that presentation of the paid. If you just put together a strategy and you send them over a document and you're like, hey, read this, you are missing such a huge opportunity to lead them through the vision. That's why we say you make a video or do it, live with them and show them what's possible.
Speaker 2:I think you'd be missing out on that and I think that if you want to charge premium prices, paid discovery is a stepping stone for you to do the same work but really be able to show the value of that that slide that I said about the emotional, business and personal outcomes. The way we teach, paid discovery helps you authentically be like. Here is what this can do for you, and so I would say, try it, see if you can capture that without the paid discovery piece. But what we hear from our students who are doing this is that that experience from the clients they're like I have never. I feel like someone took the time to deeply understand my business and what I do, and you'll have a client for life and referrals for life from those people. So I just think that there's a lot more opportunity by adding it than it does to not, than there is to not do it.
Speaker 1:Speaking of handholding through your paid discovery process. That is exactly what Shannon has available for all pro members. Shannon, as I mentioned, I did pin this comment in the chat Shannon has a paid discovery mastery course that she has made available to all Web Designer Pro members. There is a special discount to all pro members. I will have that in the chat now. It's the pinned comment up at at the top. I will also have it with the replay.
Speaker 1:There are some questions about the resources for the replay, so the replay will be up by later today. As we're rhyming, it will have the slides. Shannon, if you can send me the slides over for this, I'll make sure to get that up there. I will also link to the paid discovery process map that Shannon shared and then you have a special discount on her paid discovery course. That is, as long as you're a pro member, you'll be able to get access to that discount. That will all be available for below, I think right now currently it's $500, but pro members will get it for $297. So definitely jump on it, guys. Steal of a deal If you like this and want more and you want to get all the scripts and have a little bit of a hand-holding approach to all this. That's why I felt comfortable having Shannon here, because this is super, super helpful. I got a lot more clarity on this, so I hope you guys did as well.
Speaker 1:I'd actually love, as we wrap up, I would love to hear your number one takeaway. So if you would jump in the chat for everyone who has hung out the whole time here or joined us late, what has been your number one takeaway from this? I'll share mine real quick as the comments are coming in. I think mine was getting uber clear. I have two real quick. It was clear to me the difference between a free consultation, slash discovery, versus a paid strategy, and part two of that is in good news. I'm already doing this in my process. It was just never offered on its own. My paid strategy session was just a part it was just the first step of a web design project, but the thought of removing that and making it an option to sell is something I wish I would have heard a decade ago.
Speaker 2:Oh, me too. And the thing that I think, if you hate selling, paid discovery sells your web design projects for you. So, if you feel icky about sales, if you hate making offers, if you get clumped on discovery calls, the process really does sell without selling. And so that is why I would say to also consider it, Because if you're confident at sales, like Mark was like, do I need to do this? If you're like no, i'm're confident at sales, like Mark was like, do I need to do this? If you're like no, like I'm super confident at sales, like I know I can paint the hold that vision for my clients, um, I don't think that I need to do this. Cool. And if you hate selling, you should absolutely consider it. And you sell just one of these and it pays for the whole course. Like, so, consider it and you sell just one of these and it pays for the whole course and you'll sell many, many, many more than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no one here has a problem with the value of the course, that's for sure. In fact, mark said it was a steal of a deal for only $300. So much good stuff. Judah, brian, debra said a lot to think about. This is awesome. Judah's takeaway was that getting paid for your time, whether you work with them in the future or not huge takeaway. Mark's takeaway is paid. Discovery isn't an add-on, it's the lead product because it shows you where you're going to go and how you'll get there. Well said mine was. Brian says mine was also. The difference between paid and free discovery. Beautiful Lisa, michelle. So this was not a discount. It's the same price regardless of the path you choose. Paid discovery version is just less risky for them, helps build trust.
Speaker 1:Wonderful takeaway Sounds like Shannon's in the back of a church. Yes, amen, she says. Lisa says this is fantastic. Number one I'm giving away my knowledge and expertise for free in both Web design and Moxie. Changes are on the horizon. Awesome, jennifer says. I have always just given away strategy sessions. Jennifer, join the club. This is the problem. We always end up doing that, don't we? Because a lot of times we end up doing a free console discovery call and then we end up making it a discovery or a strategy session, but we just didn't charge for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it turns out into them just picking your brain, and picking your brain, and picking your brain. And now you have a way to be like that's such a good question. If you do this strategy blueprint with me, we can really dig into all of that and I can have the time to answer all of those questions. It's such an easy redirect to yeah, I'd love to let you pick my brain in this capacity over here. That's paid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't it funny how pick the term I would love to pick your brain is actually like I would love to get free coaching. I would love to. Can you imagine asking an electrician friend like hey, I'd love to pick your brain about some electrical stuff, and then taking them to Starbucks and be like so, tell me about how to wire this and do this and do this? They're like what the hell, dude, I'm not working, we're getting coffee. James says his takeaway is getting paid for the work he's already doing. Heck, yes, eric now has a top priority for the week Love it. Liz says her takeaway is that paid discovery fills the gap that she's been feeling in her business. The good news is that this relieved the pressure I was feeling in developing the web design part, which I don't want to do. I just want to do the strategy. Yeah, heck, yeah, liz, this can be a game changer for you. Awesome.
Speaker 2:And then you get to charge. If that's all you're doing, liz, you get to position the strategy. That's so cool to me. Be like oh, so many ideas for how you can do that.
Speaker 1:So, again, this is the type of thing we're doing in Web Designer Pro Almost every month, having a guest expert training, and again, you get access to all my courses, the amazing community, and if you want access to me directly, you can join the coaching tier, which currently has a few spots available. Head to webdesignerprocom to join pro and get all the full resources from this training that you just heard. And again, the same deal that Shannon offered Web Designer Pro members. I'm making available to you because I'm so excited about the idea of paid discovery, and it's not something I personally teach, but that doesn't mean I don't want you to do it. I want you to grow your business, I want you to have revenue boost when you want them, so paid discovery is a great way to go.
Speaker 1:So check below to get the same deal that Web Designer Pro members are getting to join Shannon's course and I hope to see you in Web Designer Pro. Just remember, when you join the community tier or the coaching tier, you get access to these guest expert trainings, the entire archive, and this is the kind of thing that I would love to include you in on. So join Web Designer Pro to have all the fun that we're having. I hope to see you in there. All right, friends, have a great rest of the week and I hope you really enjoyed this extra bonus episode. If you do, let me know, go to joshhallco, slash contact and let me know if you like this additional content, because there's going to be more coming of it.