Web Design Business with Josh Hall

381 - WDP CON 2025 Recap, Expense Breakdown & More

• Josh Hall

Share episode

A full recap and look-back with takeaways, lessons learned (and a breakdown of expenses) of the amazing weekend that was…Web Designer Pro’s first in person event conference WDP CON 2025!!

Go to the full post with pictures, video embeds and more here:

https://webdesignerpro.com/wdpcon2025

Watch the highlight reel here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKg3eMUEA_E

Josh:

Hello, my friend, welcome into a very special and I mean this with full sincerity, extra special episode of the Web Design Business Podcast, because in this one I'm going to give you a full recap and breakdown of our recent, first ever Web Designer Pro Con event. So we're just a few weeks out from having our first ever in-person event for my community, web Designer Pro. We had over 40 members from all over the United States and a few members from Canada join us. It was absolutely incredible. Even a few weeks later, I'm still buzzing from it. So many members are still buzzing from it, in fact. Before we get into this, I want to just share with you a few thoughts from members who were there. I have like hours of testimonials from this event, but I've just pulled under a couple of minutes. I just want to share with you some highlights and some thoughts from members who were there, and then we'll dive right in.

Victoria:

And we're all web designers, we're all in this space and we finally have someone like you're in a room full of people who actually understand what you're going through. Just to see that some of the things that maybe I'm dealing with in my business it made me feel I don't feel like I'm alone in it. Getting to meet every single person and like know their stories and know their personalities and just learn and grow from each other has been phenomenal.

A-T:

It's great meeting all the other participants here in person. I talk to them all the time. Online I see them in the chat rooms and just being able to actually meet them in person actually strengthen those bonds and those relationships. I think we created some friendships that are going to last a lifetime.

Leigh Ann:

The presentations were killer, each one. I learned so much. It's so neat because, even though there's so many different people at so many different levels and so many different presentations, all of us learned from all of the presentations, no matter where we were at at our business.

Jebb:

I was just impressed by how warm and welcoming everybody was, not just to me but with each other, and how willing to share they were. It was such a great event. It does not seem like year one. It seems like this has been something that you've been doing every year.

Marc:

People I actually DM with on the regular were there, which is just nuts, and so I feel like we're able to build those relationships. And it's not just an online community anymore, dude, we're not just an online community for web developers, we're an in-person community too, which is just awesome.

Alexia:

Yeah, it was transformative. That's a great word for transformative. The whole experience was transformative and I hope to carry some of that transformative energy into my business the rest of the year and up until 2026 when we're at the second WDPCon. Definitely I will be throwing elbows to be on that list for next year. So thank you so much for doing it for us.

Josh:

So again just a glimpse, just a few audio clips from the feedback from our first ever WDPCon 2025. So much to go over here. What we're going to do in this one is I'm going to share with you a little bit about the event itself and leading up to it and what the event included, and then I will share with you a breakdown of expenses and, just from the business side, of what I learned about hosting an event and some of the things that were expected and some of the things that were not expected with hosting an in-person event. So going to be kind of a bit of a two-part situation here in recap, and also a breakdown of everything just in case you're curious about hosting your own event one day, maybe on a smaller scale or bigger scale, for clients or a community of your own. So WDPCon 2025, we have been talking about hosting an in-person event for years now. Now, with Web Designer Pro for those of you who are not a member yet we do meetups. We'll have like location specific meetups all over the world. We've had meetups tons here in Columbus Ohio, where I'm based out of, and a few other pros are. We've had meetups all over the world. We've had meetups tons here in Columbus, ohio, where I'm based out of and a few other pros are. We've had meetups all over the United States. We've had meetups in Canada. We've had meetups in Brazil, in London, we've had meetups everywhere all over the world.

Josh:

But this was our first official conference and for years I've been wanting to bring us together, but I delayed on doing it for a couple of reasons. One I knew it was going to be a shit ton of work and that is putting it lightly, especially the first event. Number two was I wasn't sure quite how to go about it and I just wasn't kind of in the place. Bandwidth-wise and, honestly, financially. I knew it was going to be quite a commitment and I wanted to make sure I didn't um, for lack of a better term lose my ass on it. I wanted to make sure I wasn't worried about being profitable, but I just wanted to at least break even and and you know, quite frankly, hoping to compensate myself for some of the time, cause I knew it was going to be a lot of work. So, uh, luckily, web Designer Pro Con our first ever event was profitable and it was again freaking awesome. So what made it awesome?

Josh:

I want to say a special shout out to every single member who came in person to this event. I mean it was incredible and I know there's some FOMO. A lot of Web Designer Pro members are going to be listening to this. I know a lot of you, for whatever reason, couldn't make it. Some of you had family emergencies. Some of you were going to the Kentucky Derby. I personally would rather have go to the Web Designer Pro Con, but hey, I get it. So, all that to say, I don't want to create too much FOMO here, but we've got to talk about it because it was that good.

Josh:

Everyone who came was just incredible. I mean, there was from the very get go, there was just this like. I think it was like a. It sounds weird, but there was like a spirit, there was like an energy of like just positive vibes. I mean, can you imagine walking into a group of 40 plus people and everyone has the biggest smile on their face, everyone is welcoming. There's no clicks, there's no weirdness, everyone not all members do each other well, but it's like, oh shoot, I have seen her post or I've seen him post, or we had a conversation a few months ago, or I saw them on the podcast. It was that kind of vibe and, as you heard from some of those testimonials there, there was such an immediate, unifying nature of being and this just is a testament to not only Web Designer Pro this amazing community that we have but also of being in either an online community or, like Mark said in that testimonial clip, a real-world community, an in-person community where there is just a like-mindedness. I mean, guys, I can't recommend enough that if you are not in a community of other web designers, I hope it's Web Designer Pro. I hope you join us online and in person now. But get into a community, do not do this alone. Because it was so life-giving I mean, you can probably hear it in my voice I am absolutely still fired up. I cannot wait for the next one and I'm extra excited for the mini meetups that we're going to have eventually and other pros are meeting up. We got a meetup happening soon in Texas, so get in community. I just want to say that because it is incredible.

Josh:

Now, if you're curious about what the event entailed, here it is. Here's what I planned out for the event, and then I want to share a few things about the planning process and leading up to it. I have no idea how long this is going to go. By the way, I'm not even looking at bullet points or anything, so I just want to share what's on my mind. So buckle on in and let's have some fun and hope. If you weren't there in person, I know you can't relive it, but I hope this gets you pumped for joining the community and join us for the next one. So the event consisted of officially two days On Friday, may 2nd, we had like officially on the itinerary was a group, social and in Columbus, ohio.

Josh:

If you've never been here, you don't know the city. Columbus is great and a few clips I did not include in that, just quick little snippet in the beginning, were how so many members said Columbus was awesome, like it exceeded their expectations. So many members said it was clean and modern and really easy to get around and walk around, and it's true. Like all cities, there's bad sections and places I wouldn't recommend walking around and luckily, being that I live in Columbus, I know where the good spots are. And really cool thing about Columbus in particular is there's a few sections called the Short North, the Arena District, and they're all walking distance of each other and that's where all of our events happened. I'm saying that because I tried to make sure we had a centralized location to where all of our activities whether it be mini meetups and lunches and brunches, or the official group, socials and dinners or the actual workshop day itself I wanted it to all be walking distance so somebody could get a hotel or an Airbnb and walk or, at the very least, do a quick Uber anywhere. So that was the goal in planning it.

Josh:

So on Friday, may 2nd, the official itinerary was to have a group social at the Columbus Clippers baseball game. We have a minor league team Our minor league team is actually the farm team for the Cleveland well now Guardians. So the the stadium is incredible. It's like it's it's pro level. It's smaller but it's pro level in the amenities and just a great spot. We were able to rent out an entire suite that holds up to, I think, 48 people. I'll talk about costs here in a little bit and expenses, but, uh, I rented that out for us and we were able to lock that in to be able to house our first ever official web designer pro social. And if you've been following me on social media, I'm active right now on Facebook and Instagram. You've probably seen some of the pictures because I've posted a lot about the event and we'll continue to post about the event, so definitely follow me over there. You can go to joshhallco slash Facebook or joshhallco slash Instagram to see some of this and we will have some pictures at the show notes for this one, which are going to be found at joshhallco slash 381.

Josh:

But the other two big items on the official event itinerary were Saturday May 3rd, we had an all day workshop. This workshop consisted of five speakers including myself, and then each one of them were followed up by Q&A sessions. We also had a lunch provided at the workshop at the AC Hotel in downtown Columbus, which had a beautiful room on the top floor with windows on each side, and that room I think can hold up to 50 to 75 people altogether or more depending on the seating. But that was the big. The workshop was kind of the big big draw apart from it was really kind of two parts. The big draw, I think, was just getting us in person together and just building that sense of community and meeting people and making friends and making connections and networking and learning.

Josh:

But the other part of this was the actual event itself the workshop and then the last official item on the itinerary was a group dinner. So after the workshop I left about an hour and a half of time to where we all walked down the street and met at a Italian restaurant called Buca di Peppo. I think. They're in most all major cities. Those of you who know it know that you can fit a lot of people in there. It's one of the only places that can house that many people. So when I thought about planning this, I'm like where the heck can we go with like 40 people? Well, buca di Peppo came through us in flying colors. They were absolutely awesome. So that was our group dinner, but we did a lot of events around this. So and by events I mean meetups. So let me just give you a breakdown of the actually before I kind of dive into the entire weekend and share some thoughts and insights from that.

Josh:

I do want to say, in the planning for this, I was really intentional about including all of that, because I thought about just doing one day and having people show up that morning. But then I was like, man, it would be nice to offer like a group hang. And, quite honestly, one thing I I'm glad we did a social event before the workshop day, mainly because, with a big event where there's a lot of people getting to meet each other for the first time, I think there's nothing worse than going somewhere and having like 20 minutes to mingle and then you just immediately sit down and start learning. I really, really enjoyed and those of you who are there you tell me if you enjoyed this. I personally enjoyed having the night beforehand to just hang and just have time to meet everybody and expand on stuff you want to talk about before actually getting down to work the next day, because Saturday was an intensive day in the way of the presentations were like mind blowing, transformative, like you heard, I mean. So it was just like I wouldn't want to throw people right into that. So I'm really glad we did a social the day before. I'm definitely going to keep that going.

Josh:

So in the planning for this, I wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to do that and I had thought about doing a dinner on Friday night, but I realized, like you know, I wanted to do something more social, because a dinner just feels a little bit more formal. Now, there were plenty. There was obviously food options and stuff at the baseball game. But, uh, man, the suite was just the way to go. I mean, honestly, for 2026, I'm just going to run this thing back. I want to do the exact same thing. It's funny because so many members said, can we just do this Like well, for sure next year, but can we do this like once a month? And I was like gosh, that'd be awesome. So, yeah, I really enjoyed starting out with that.

Josh:

For those reasons and in the planning for this, I wanted to have a mix of like fun and social and intentional, but also, you know, I want members to come here and leave with like a business something, a business takeaway. And when I thought about what could be something that would be a nice frame for the actual workshop, for the actual event, and I thought, what if we did something like just a boost? I love that term boost, I wrote about it in a recent newsletter and that works really good on SEO plans and maintenance plans and services. Why wouldn't it work for an event? So I called it a revenue boost and with having the idea of a topical theme like a revenue boost, that allowed me to when I reached out to speakers and potential folks who would want to present here. It allowed us to have something to build off of. There was a foundation. That way, I didn't have one person talking about an unrelated topic that didn't really segue into the next one one.

Josh:

There was all a common theme which was what can we talk about in 30 to 35 minutes, leaving time for live Q and a? Which web designer pro members? We could have had a 10 hour just Q and a session without active. Everyone was. We had I had to be like okay, guys, we got to move on to the next one to keep on time, uh, which is just a testament to web designer pro members. But, uh, I wanted to have a topical theme that we could build on, and I just love that idea of revenue boost. I think we set the bar so high for round one. I have no idea what we're going to do in 26, but we got time. So those were some of my thoughts.

Josh:

And then I wanted to have a group dinner to end everything off, because, again, a dinner is different from a social in the way of like you're just, it's a different vibe. You're, you're seated with people depending on how big the tables are. You're going to kind of have a deeper connection and longer conversations with the folks you happen to sit with. So, uh, really glad that worked out because I think some members who really got to know each other and kind of connect with each other, you could see those little micro uh relationships form, which are really cool. But again, the extra cool thing was that nobody was excluded. There is not like there were no clicks, and that's one thing I love about our community is there's just no clicks in Web Designer Pro. It's not like the high school cafeteria where you got the cool kids and the nerds and the skaters and the dancers, whatever, like we're just all mostly nerds and skaters. So it's actually really cool. Like, um, it just is a great, great open group. So there was none of that that we had to worry about. That was just freaking incredible.

Josh:

So in the planning of all this, those are all things that were considered and I do want to give a shout out to a couple of people who assisted in the planning my friend, shannon Madden, who is also local in Columbus Ohio, a fellow web design business coach. She has hosted events on a different scale and level for her community. She does more of retreats for her like high level members in her community, but because she's done events and has some experience that even in her previous corporate world I I invited her to sit down on the initial strategy session with planning this and, of course, she has so much to talk about, especially when it comes to pricing, that I invited her to be a speaker and she killed it. She blew some minds talking about price anchoring. By the way, yes, the presentations are going to be live inside of web designer pro. At the time of recording this. I'm still waiting on getting the official replays, but once we get those, I'll make sure everyone knows. You'll hear about it on the podcast, you'll hear about it on my email and you'll see it on the socials. We will be posting those.

Josh:

So she was a part of the planning process and I got to give a huge special shout out to Austin, who was a member of Web Designer Pro. He was in the second wave of members in pro, so he's been in there, I think, since 2021. Knows the community really well, has such great insight, is a little more quiet in the group, but, my gosh, was he instrumental in being a part of this live event. Especially, austin is also local in Columbus, ohio, and he was just such a great right-hand man through this entire process. Austin did so much for the event. From that initial strategy session and planning session. He had some really good ideas and, as a member, I loved hearing his insight on, like you know, what would you want? What are you looking for in an event as a member, how do you want to go about this? What would be cool for you? And we all kind of came up with that structure. I mentioned of social workshop dinner as the main events. We did plenty around it which we'll get to, but yeah, he was huge.

Josh:

Austin also did so much with just helping me find resources online. We looked at different venues, we talked about different group activities, dinner ideas and Austin really got a lot of the ball rolling on some of the boots on the ground work on that. Austin also helped me with creating lanyards, and day of was a huge help because he was doing a lot. I mean, I really I would have been running like a chicken with my head cut off if it wasn't for Austin. So I just want to take a few minutes to shout out Austin. I know he's probably beat red right now as somebody who doesn't want to be in the spotlight.

Josh:

But Austin, you've got a heck of a skillset dude, um, with event assistance, uh, executive event assistance, um, but he did so much day of. I mean, he was there for he was there before I was there in the morning getting stuff set up, helping direct people. We had kind of planned out the layout together and he knew all that and he also ran sound for the event. I didn't want there to just be awkward silence between presentations and stuff, so we put a playlist together and Austin handled all the audio that day. He helped set up sponsor equipment and oodles of things. So huge, huge help If you are doing an event, if you don't have, like an event coordinator, I would really recommend especially if you're hosting like emceeing, like I was doing, I would really really recommend having an assistant of some kind. And Austin just came through. I felt like I was giving him way too much work. I was like dude, please tell me if this is like way too much. He's like no, happy to. He loved it. So, yeah, huge, huge help, something I've definitely am going to continue to do. So, austin, I hope you're down for round two. Uh, so that was in the planning of it.

Josh:

Now, as I mentioned, those were the main itinerary items, but we did a whole lot of hang in and a lot of little mini meetups and socials around the event. So we had a lot of members actually come in on that Thursday. We had some members who came in a little earlier or they were flying in. Uh, there were a handful of members who came in that afternoon and evening. So with the members I oh I should say too, if you're wondering, like, how did you guys organize communication and how did you keep track of everything, especially with these other meetups?

Josh:

Circle is not only the platform that I run Web Designer Pro on, but it was our hub for all communication, for all attendees, and it's actually where I sold the tickets for Web Designer Pro Con, the event two members. So, circle, you can create an event, you can create an event and you can sell tickets in RSVPs through Circle. I didn't need to use a different platform. Circle was freaking awesome. So a huge shout out to Circle for making it possible for us to do this literally under one roof in-house. I was able to create the event, create the tickets. We'll get to price again a little bit, but we sold tickets for 150.

Josh:

I kept it very reasonable just to make it a no-brainer for as many members to come for this first one within our headcount. We did have a headcount of 40 on this one, but it was all in Circle and we had an attendee group chat thread. So with Circle, what's kind of cool is you can create a private chat thread and it's almost like Slack inside of Circle and then you can say if someone does this which in my case the workflow was if someone RSVPs to this event, they get added to the group chat. That's how we managed all group communication. So if you're curious, nitty gritty, that's kind of how we did that, and that chat is still a buzz right now. I mean it is. It's my gosh, the stuff that's going on in that chat is still incredible. So that's how we did that.

Josh:

That's how we kept track of members who were coming in early. Uh, and what we did is I met with I want to give a shout out to Megan, who was actually recently on the podcast, megan Fletcher. She was the first member to arrive in Columbus, all the way from California. So she took a red red eye overnight, got there pretty early on Thursday, met up with her and Austin first we kicked the party off and then we all walked over and met up with a handful of other members at a restaurant in the short North, which is again in walking distance from the AC hotel, where we would eventually have the workshop, and a little further distance from the Clipper stadium. So all in walking distance, thanks to awesome Columbus.

Josh:

So we met with a handful it was just about I think there were seven or eight of us at dinner and then we walked over to what was a very loud bar that my wife and I like to frequent. I say bar it's more like casual lunch in the day, but it turns into a bit of a college bar later on. Now that was a Thursday night and this is a lesson learned, which is I did not know when I booked the dates that it was Ohio State's graduation weekend, so that meant not only were hotel rates more expensive, and there was always there's always something going on in Columbus, but that was particularly, uh, really busy. But what we learned also was that there were so many dang college kids at that bar that night, but it's one of the bars that has enough space to get a group of like eight, nine, 10 of us together. So we just walked right over there. We ended up just happened to getting like a really good standing spot with um, like at the front of the restaurant. So I was like, all right, we're going to make this work.

Josh:

I probably, in hindsight, would have gone to a bit of a quieter bar, um, mainly because I just about blew my voice out in the first night and I did a lot of talking over the next few days, a lot of talking, which is what I had anticipated, what I had planned for, what I absolutely love to do. But next year I am going to be probably a little more intentional about making sure we don't get into like loud uh bar areas, especially leading up to the event, because I mean, my voice was nearly shot for the event itself. Luckily it pulled through, but I mean, after the event, not only did I get sick, but my voice, I mean I sounded like Kermit the Frog, josh, it was rough. So we'll be a little more intentional. And I say that because it's kind of a heads up with hosting an event, especially if you're going to be speaking. I would be really intentional about protecting your voice because I mean, I talked nearly four days straight and it was incredible and awesome and I don't regret a minute of it. But man, I definitely um, uh, my voice was not quite ready for that. So, uh, learned that on the first night. But gosh darn, was it an absolute blast getting to meet with some members before the tech, you know, technically even happened.

Josh:

So that Friday, uh, what we did was, similarly, before the baseball game, I wanted to meet up with as many members as I could. Now, some members were staying with each other. There were kind of pockets of members doing separate things. But in that group chat I just said, hey, we're going to be back at Pine house. Uh, that same restaurant and a much different vibe, cause usually it's not nearly that crowded or busy on weeknights but it's even more chill during the day. So we met there for lunch. Quite a few members came.

Josh:

That's where we got to meet Jeb from 17 Hats. Oh my gosh. By the way, how did I not mention this already? Huge shout out to our sponsors. We'll talk expenses here shortly, but our sponsors made this event happen for us. 17 hats was our gold sponsor site ground, who I've been hosting with for a decade. Um, they were a sponsor and then term again was that they were actually at the event as well, and 17 hats a part of the. The deal was if, for those who took a sponsorship spot, you're welcome to send somebody in 17 hats, which is the CRM that I've used for proposals Just talked about a recent proposal video that I put out and, yes, you see what I do in 17 Hats they sent a magnificent human with a hell of a beard in the name of Jeb and great guy, I mean. He just fit right in with us from the first five minutes and had a really good time. It was awesome having him there.

Josh:

They had a booth and, uh, he met us early on Friday. Us, I mean. So I don't. I could obviously take three hours talking about every member, but one thing I will say that was extra cool too about this was we have a member in the deaf community, harold, who's outside of Pennsylvania, drove on over and we met he. He was actually there on Friday as well and it was really cool to interact with him in an in-person situation. I've never I don't think I've ever interacted with a deaf person and I think it was really eye-opening and fascinating for all of us to interact with him and be able to communicate like that, because only one other pro member that I'm aware of signs, and that's my amazing VA, jen, who was also there, so she was able to sign with him.

Josh:

But the way we communicated with him were just through texts, like audio to phone. And I looked over and I saw Jeb doing this. I saw so many other members. Harold would write something out on his phone and then show it to us and we would respond back, either text back or write on a piece of paper or just talk into our phone and then be able to communicate with him. So it was incredible, it was really, really cool. And Harold, I got so many good hugs, but Harold wins the award for biggest bear hug. I mean, he came in and jetted over to me and gave me the biggest bear hug. I think he was really appreciative, appreciative to to be able to be there and us making that event ASL.

Josh:

Um, we did have ASL speakers. We actually hired two signers, which we'll talk about with the expenses here for the workshop, for the event. So he was actually able to participate in the live presentations and when we had that covered for him, big reason for that is because of our sponsors. So, um, it was really cool to make this event an ASL accessible event and even though it was just for one member, I have no regrets in in investing in ASL services. And when it came down to that, I was like whew, I found out how much it was going to be to hire because you have to hire two ASL interpreters for a full day. I was like, oh snap, the CFO side of me is like that's a pretty big expense that we're going to take a chunk out of the profit here.

Josh:

But then I thought about how engaged Harold is in pro and how excited he was to come, and I knew he was going to come. I knew it wasn't going to be somebody who I didn't know well and like may or may not show up. I knew no, harold's the real deal. He's coming, um, and I have no regrets on that at all. It was such an honor to be able to provide that for him and it just it filled my heart. Honestly, being able to do that and to see him in person being a part of this was incredible and learning to communicate that way. And, quite frankly, you know a lot of you know I have a daughter with special needs and I thought about what if she wanted to do something that wasn't able for her? You know, like what if there wasn't some sort of accessibility thing that she needed and it made her not be able to go? So I really thought all about all that and then it became an easy decision and, um, the CFO side of me was like oh yeah, this is a heart first business, this is a heart first community, absolutely. Let's invest in that. So, so great to have Harold Anywho. Uh, we had a lot.

Josh:

We had a great lunch with a ton of members who came on Friday. We all walked down. One of my favorite spots in Columbus is the R bar. Um, apparently in um. Where is Mark out of sight in Indiana? Um, apparently outside of Notre Dame area in the fighting Irish land. Apparently our bar is something very different than the R bar in Columbus. So the R bar is not the R rated bar in Columbus, it is a hockey bar. So we went over to my favorite Columbus Blue Jackets hockey bar for a little while during the day, met with some other members and my gosh again, I could say everyone's name, you know take forever, but just to say we had a really great group there and then we all walked down to the Columbus Clippers game on Friday night, had an absolute blast. The only downfall and the only cloud over the weekend was a literal cloud and that was it rained a lot.

Josh:

Now, springtime in Columbus is hit or miss. We have absolutely gorgeous and beautiful days and then we have downpours, probably just like most areas with spring, but unfortunately we did have a lot of rain. Now, luckily, on that Friday it timed out to where it didn't rain until later, primarily so we were able to walk around Columbus okay, despite wind and everything. Yeah, my hair got messed up, but it worked. It worked out all right. But we all went to the game and it was absolutely incredible.

Josh:

Like I mentioned, we had a suite that can hold up to 50 people altogether, I think, and it was just really really cool, really really great spot. And again, you can see pictures in the recap post for this, details below and then, of course, on my social media. But what happened was we got rained out, so the game it started raining about halfway through. It actually ended up being a double header. So we were going to have an extended time in that suite. We were actually going to get two games in that suite, but it rained and it rained harder and harder and harder. Luckily we were in a suite which meant we were covered and, quite frankly, we're all there to be with each other. It was really just background noise. I mean, I love watching baseball games, but I don't think too many people were, you know, fiercely into the game. It was about being with each other. So it worked out just fine. We still got four hours there and then the first Web Designer Pro Con after.

Josh:

Well, we had the after hours event before, where I nearly lost my voice, but we had the real after hours event, because next to the baseball stadium is a little dive bar called Betty's.

Josh:

They're kind of rude, they're not super friendly, but the beers are cheap, the atmosphere is crusty and there's carpet and it is freaking awesome. So those of us who wanted to keep on hanging I didn't want to be out too late. My wife had joined us too and we talked. We're like, okay, I promise we're not going to be out too late Cause I got to get up in the morning and we've got the event still. But we walked over there and a group of us had an after hours hang at Betty's and it was so much fun. It was just absolutely awesome. And the really cool thing I do want to say, because a lot of members were there and I made sure everyone knew, and this is something that I've learned with hosting this event for event you know if you're going to do an event, I would say if you're going to be doing after hours activities or anything in bars, I made it really clear there is zero pressure to drink.

Josh:

If somebody is is sober or recovering or doesn't want to be in in that that is absolutely fine, no offense whatsoever, totally understand. And I wanted to make sure everyone knew. Even if you come with us, we cause we had a ton of members hang out till late nights with us who didn't drink at all. There was no pressure. So I made that clear from the get-go and I'm really glad I did, because we were able to have so much fun with people, whether they were drinking or not. And what was really cool about Web Designer Pro members is no one got wild. Like it was a perfect amount of good fun, hangs loosening up a little bit. But no, there was no, you know, nobody got too wild or anything. So just wanted to make sure those of you who are pro members who thought like oh my God, where's Josh? What is this janky ass bar that we're walking into? It's pouring rain, called Betty's? Um, just know, it was all good, it nothing. Nothing gets too wild. So it was so great that was the first night and again about blew out my voice again, uh, before the actual day of in the event. So that's kind of how we did that.

Josh:

I'll share a little bit about the event here and a few other things and then we will talk expenses to wrap this up. Uh, anything else I want to cover on that one? I don't think so, but all to say, it was raining and it was pretty. Some of the weather was pretty miserable, but by golly it was sunshine around our group because we had just so much fun together. So the day of um gosh, the day of the workshop, was so freaking good. The event was incredible. The AC hotel was awesome, although one. There's a couple of things to do with the event that I want to talk about.

Josh:

That were unexpected things which I learned happens with events. One was and this all happened pretty quickly One I had hired a photographer, slash videographer, and two weeks out we were about to meet in person. He's a local guy, a friend of mine, and we were going to meet the next day to go over all the specifics and he texted me and said hey, josh, I'm not gonna be going to meet the next day to go over all the specifics and he texted me and said hey, josh, I'm not gonna be able to meet tomorrow. I just found out today that I have cancer. He got a cancer diagnosis and I was like, oh my gosh, like dude. I was like, don't worry, like I slept on it, cause he was like we can meet next week. I'm totally planning on doing it and everything. It looks like it's something that's going to be able to be removed with surgery, and waiting to hear back on that the next day, I was like, dude, don't worry about it. I had already.

Josh:

I had talked to a couple different videographers and I checked with the other one that I talked to and I just said like, hey, is there any chance you guys would still be available to do the event? I said, my, my, my other photographer that I'd signed on with may not be able to do it. So I just had a plan B. I would recommend having a plan B on all, like every event thing. You can have a plan B, whether it's a social, whether it's a venue. Well, a venue is kind of screwed for a plan B, but videographer, all that stuff, speakers. So luckily they were saying, yes, we could still do it. We've got a guy who could do it. So I told the first videographer I was like dude, don't worry about it. I had already paid him almost two grand. But I was like listen, I was like let's. I was like you, get through this, I don't want our event to be anything on you. And I didn't know when he would need to have surgery, like what if it was? You know before what that looked like, with even just turnaround time. Like I was like dude, I don't want you to have to edit while you're in the hospital or something. Like I said you just take care of you and let's use that investment. Let's roll it into some updated headshots and maybe some video stuff that I'll do this year. So, uh, he was totally cool with that and luckily the other videographers came through. Amazing, they sent a guy out, ronnie, who was a total pro. I'll be posting more and more of the recap video and all the stuff that he captured their day of, including photos and videos. So that was the first curveball.

Josh:

The second curveball was one of our speakers, michelle Bourbonier, founding member of Pro, my personal SEO guru. She's been on the podcast many times. Member of pro, my personal SEO guru. She's been on the podcast many times. She had a family emergency and she had a close family member who was in the hospital and was going to be in the hospital for a while and needed her attention. And it was under two weeks out, uh, right, about that same time.

Josh:

So part of me was like oh God, what's happening? What's happening Two weeks off in the event? I'm getting these like curve balls here, uh. But again, it's just something I've learned when you're doing an event. So I told her I was like absolutely, absolutely, no worries at all. Worst case, we just will have one last speaker and we'll have more time for networking or Q&A or extended lunch or something. So I said, don't worry at all, you take care of you. Michelle, in our thoughts, in our prayers, we missed you terribly, but we're already excited for next year and Michelle will definitely have a speaking spot for next year. Fingers crossed that all the health stuff is good for all family members. So I wanted to have her take care of her during that little couple of weeks there. So it was no problem. I was just going to leave it open.

Josh:

But one of our pro members, sam, who is an absolute rock star he's actually a partner in Web Designer Pro because he has his own local SEO Academy. He's one of our shining gold star members of pro. He said hey, man, I heard about Michelle. He's like I would be happy to share a little bit about what I've done recently with building my MRR with local SEO. And I was like dude, heck, yes, heck, yes, because Sam is a rockstar member who grew his business to six figures in the first year and is now on track, as we learned on that presentation. He's got his sights set on think 400 K this year. So, yeah, I was like yeah, we're going to talk revenue boost. Uh, let's learn from you, sam. So apps are freaking lutely. He stepped in and created a presentation within a week and his presentation was absolutely amazing, as were they all.

Josh:

So a couple of curve balls there. The last curve ball that happened was day of when I was literally walking into the hotel First thing in the morning. I walk in and I meet my contact there and she's like hey, are you Josh? I was like I am and she's like I'm so sorry to let you know this, but the bathrooms aren't working upstairs on the top floor. And I was like oh darn, like that's unfortunate, not the end of the world, but what it meant was that members were just going to have to use the elevator and go down to the lobby and then come back up. So just a bit of a process.

Josh:

Um, again another curve ball to expect with events. So I was like, okay, uh, no problem, and she's like, we're working on it, it should be fixed this morning and luckily, after our first intermission, I did let everyone know hey, the bathrooms aren't working. Yes, tons of puns were going around because shit happens, and luckily they got it fixed, I think in the first hour. So we were good there. But just another curve ball that I guess I just learned. Like next event, I'm going to expect plenty of curves, curve balls, and I feel like I handled all those things well and so many people came through. But, uh, yeah, luckily that was just one of the day of things. I was like, man, that would really be nice to have bathrooms right there, because the top level of the uh event was like a big bar area with a rooftop bar on one side and then there's a hallway that leads to the conference rooms. There's a couple of different size conference rooms, so it worked out fine, though it worked out totally fine. Then what really worked out fine was our presentations. Holy cow, the revenue boost workshop was absolutely incredible. Again, the replays will be available inside of Web Designer Pro. So as long as you join at the community level, you will. The replays will be available inside of Web Designer Pro. So, as long as you join at the community level, you will see the replays and the presentations from WDPCon 2025, all framed around this idea of a revenue boost.

Josh:

We started off with my friend, jay Klaus, who is the founder of Creator Science. Please do yourself a favor and go listen to his podcast. I'm a part of his membership, so, because we have a pretty tight connection, I asked if he would be interested in coming in and specifically talking about email and how to market with email and with a newsletter today. So he kicked us off. It was incredible lively Q&A session. And then the second presenter was Sam. Sam stepped in and talked about how he has built up his MRR, which is monthly recurring revenue, primarily with local SEO, and Sam absolutely killed it. And who knew Sam is such a good in-person speaker Didn't know that he was in Toastmasters for a few years either, but that really pays off. So get yourself in Toastmasters if you're going to be presenting in groups. I just think it's good anyway. But Sam absolutely killed it.

Josh:

And then we had Jeb from 17 Hats who, again they were our gold sponsor. Jeb actually gave us a little bit of a walkthrough of how to increase your lead pipeline and how to streamline some things using 17 Hats. Everything that members learned live there could also be done in Moxie or other platforms as well. But it was interesting because people were like, oh, I didn't know 17 hats could do that. I didn't think they could do that. I thought it was just for photographers. No, 17 hats is incredible. I've been using it for a decade and, um, they've been key for me, so it was really cool. I actually learned a lot more, too, about I'm like shoot, I am vastly under utilizing 17 hats with the amount it can do, so that was really cool, did a Q and a session and then we had lunch.

Josh:

We had a killer barbecue lunch together and then the afternoon happened. We started off with Shannon Mattern, who talked about pricing and blew some freaking minds about how to anchor your pricing and how to offer certain things in different scopes for different packages. It was incredible. That could have led to a two-hour Q&A session, but I had to cut everyone off and say we got to move forward.

Josh:

The next presentation was my friend, jason Gracia, who has made over $2 million building websites and if you're wondering how has he done that, a lot of it is through his sales call and, more specifically, his clothes. He has a proven clothes sales call script with PDFs that we walked through together and what we actually did on this is Jason came up with this idea. Especially, it worked out so perfect for the afternoon, because you get to that two o'clock hour. We've been going since 10 AM and inevitably you get a little antsy. And what was really cool about that is I was actually a mock-up lead, a mock-up client for him, and it wasn't Josh, it was Jim shorts, and Jim shorts, as members found, has a big old black mustache. Yes, we got up there, we said we're going to do a mock-up sales call and I had a mustache in my pocket and put that bad boy on, got a pretty good laugh and we were off and running with some serious fun learning about how Jason's web design agency could serve Jim in his personal training business. So it was incredible.

Josh:

More takeaways, more mind blowing this. I mean to learn from somebody like Jason who has literally made $2 million in five or six years building websites. How many people can like? How many people get to learn from somebody like that in person? It was incredible. Huge thanks to all the speakers. It was absolutely incredible. And, a side note, when that mustache came in on Amazon, my wife opened it up and she was like, hey, um, what the hell is this? I was like hold on, let me explain. It's not for later, it's for the event. So good times.

Josh:

And then we wrapped up the event. It's funny Cause I thought about doing a presentation. I was like you know what? We're going to have four meaty presentations. I was like there's no need for me to dump a bunch of other info later in the day. I was like why don't I just do a live Q&A session? And I'm so glad I did, because we went through every presentation topic and did a live coaching session and gosh, did I have fun with that? It was so much fun. Really really good. I think it was a great way to end off the event and that was it.

Josh:

And then we had some time to hang out and then we did our group dinner at the Italian restaurant. And then last thing I'll say before I talk about expenses, to wrap this up, there was a bar above the Italian restaurant. One reason I wanted to take us there is because it's pretty big and they have a huge outdoor patio and it's kind of on the edge of the nightlife scene, so it's not too crazy at all. It's like right in front of the arena where the blue jackets play. And uh, we went up there and I didn't know that they were about to bring in karaoke and almost thought about leaving because I wasn't sure what the scene was going to be like. But we had a couple of members say no, let's stay, let's hang out, let's see what the karaoke is all about. I also didn't know that we have two members of Web Designer Pro who are bona fide king and queen of karaoke.

Josh:

Huge shout out to our own Victoria Berry. And he was a presenter. He filled in last moment. He was a hell of a live speaker and he turned about to be a hell of a live karaoke. Or Sam Sarston who, my gosh, victoria, comes in there, beautiful voice, owned the room, does karaoke all the time. Absolutely crushed it. Sam goes up there, little white guy from Oregon. I'm thinking he's going to do like journey or a country song and he busts out Look at me now. Is it? Is that Chris Brown? I don't know too well, but it's like the super fast buster rhymes rap part and absolutely kills it, crushes it. The whole place is like rolling, I mean. And I mean like, like people jumping up, I mean Sam, like owned it. It was so, so, so good. So next year, don't worry everybody, I will make sure that we do that again, because karaoke was way too much fun.

Josh:

It really kicked off the last night of WDP after hours activities. We got to hang out there for a while and, man, it was an absolute blast. It was just so good. The rain held off a little bit later on, so we were hanging outside. I'll post a picture on my social media it should be live by the time you see this, but of some of those activities and seeing the skyline behind us. It was just great. It was awesome, awesome.

Josh:

And then a special shout out to Dan, jeb and Robbie and my wife. We were the ones who stayed out till 1am on Saturday night after all the fun. I'm already losing my voice here. I should have brought a water with me, but we hung out late. We were the late night crew and what do you do once it gets to about 12, 30 or 1? You go get something to eat. And we had a little special five of us Uber trip down to Buckeye Donuts in Columbus. I was really hoping they were going to have breakfast sandwiches, but they do have donuts 24 seven. But what they also have are the euros. So if you find yourself in Columbus, go to Buckeye Donuts for any of the food. The euros are delicious, as we found out. The donuts are second to none. So so much fun doing that.

Josh:

And then my wife and I actually stayed downtown at the AC hotel that night because we knew we were going to have a late night and we were able to get childcare overnight. So she stayed with me. It was so much fun. And then we woke up and then we found out a few members were still in town. So we had a little brunch with a few members, including my amazing VA gen and a really, really great group of folks. So that's how we ended off the weekend and had some incredible conversations, so many members, my gosh throughout the entire weekend, through all those hangs and that entire experience so many good conversations, that I'm still thinking back through and going like, oh, I forgot about that, I forgot about that. Tears People were literally crying about and getting emotional about what this community has meant to them. And then I think being in person just elevates everything. It elevates your focus, it elevates your emotion and I think, because of all those reasons, there was just such a deep connection that was formed and it was incredible. So that is a recap of Web Designer Pro Con 2025. And for all those reasons and more, I'm so excited about 2026.

Josh:

Let me just share a quick breakdown of the expenses for those curious about events, and I'll just be completely frank about this. Now, I knew, as I was thinking about the expenses, I figured we were going to be doing something that's going to be at least a $10,000 event, all said and done, just with the event space and then catering and dinners, if not way more. So I wanted to make sure, first off and I honestly felt pretty comfortable that we'll be able to get some sponsorships. I get reached out to by a lot of companies now. I've got connections with a lot of the tools that I use and I was like I'm pretty sure we could get at least $10,000 to $20,000 of sponsorships. So that's exactly what we did and before I share expenses, I will share with you that we had, thanks to 17 Hats, siteground and Termageddon, we had $16,000 of sponsorship revenue come in to be able to bring this event to life for all of our members.

Josh:

So 17 Hats was our gold, and then site ground our silver sponsor, and then term again was our bronze sponsor and all of a sudden done, it was $16,000 worth of sponsorships, which allowed us to keep ticket prices very low, which is why originally my originally we were going to do tickets for two 50. And then, uh, what I did was I set up 25 for early bird pricing at one 50 and we sold 24 tickets to pro members. And I think like seven days and I was like Holy cow, I was not expecting that. So, uh, I just kept the tickets there.

Josh:

I once I found out that we had some sponsors sign on, I was like let's just keep the tickets at that price for for this year and just make sure it's a no brainer for as many people to come again under our 40, 40 person headcount. So that's what we did. It was incredible. So, um, we had $16,000 worth of uh sponsorship money and then we had over $4,000 worth of ticket sales at the one $50 range. I think we had 32 or 33 official ticket sales. And then we had a handful of folks, uh who were we had to keep at a 40 head count total, including sponsor people and uh colleagues and, like, uh, the folks who were presenting um, the ticket was on on me for them, so uh, so there were a handful of others that got us close to the 40 count, but yeah, so we had over $20,000 worth of revenue to be able to work with.

Josh:

So, now I'm sure you're curious. However long we've been going, you're probably like God dang it, josh, tell me about how much this costs. Here's how much it costs. The event space at the AC Hotel was $1,225 to rent out for the day. Now that was just the event space. That wasn't including the catering and everything else, which is most of the expense. The catering and all the miscellaneous stuff. Day of was nearly $3,500. It was $3,456. So for the event space, catering and everything else, we're looking at $4,600.

Josh:

The line items on that, if you're curious, the miscellaneous stuff was we did a pretty premium lunch and we made sure we had coffee available in the morning. We had Pepsi products, we had snacks and a few other things. We had a whole little snack bar there and waters and everything. There's quite a bit. There was over two grand. Uh, we did usually with event spaces.

Josh:

What I'm learning is that all the little things add up, which again is why I'm so thankful we had sponsorship revenue because, like, we got five power strips, because we realized people are going to have their laptops. Austin actually had this question. He's like what are people going to be able to plug those in? And I was like, shoot, I didn't even think about that. Austin did a lot of stuff that I didn't think about, including like having name badges at the baseball game, like my name is. So I was like, oh genius, didn't think about that either. But yeah, we did five of those 20 bucks a piece. Um, the tables, the sponsor tables I wasn't sure of all the sponsors were going to have a cloth, so we did two black linen cloths that were 15 bucks a piece because site grounds sent swag but they weren't actually there. Term again, they in 17 hats were there. Um, but because of that I want to. I wanted to make sure we had table cloths. It looked decent. So that was 130 altogether between those. Um, we did pay for the podium, which was a hundred bucks, and then there's a service charge of 620 and then tax, which was 250. So yeah, it was almost 3,500 for catering and miscellaneous stuff for the event.

Josh:

The slugger suite for the Clippers game was a thousand dollars to rent out for the evening and then there that was up to 24 people, so we did have to purchase additional tickets. So we purchased $300 and 15 worth of additional tickets. Now I'm not mad about this, but one thing I'm going to just be extra harping on next year is, like, I need to know for sure if you're going to be at the game or not, because we bought all these extra tickets based off of the head count and we did, I think, have five or six people not go to the game, which, again, it's fine. But and I know, with an event that, um, you're going to have some overhead costs. That's just, with a big group of people, it's just going to happen. You're going to have a little bit of waste as far as cost goes. So, um, I did send multiple reminders leading up to that. Like, let me know if you're not coming to the game, but I'm just going to expect a few people are not going to come for for whatever reason, and some of it could be travel issues or day of problems. So, um, yeah, it just is going to be what it is. So, a little bit of wasted money on ticket overhead, but that's all right.

Josh:

We also, instead of doing a dinner like a catered dinner and that, we did, um, just cash Clippers, cash that was $975 worth of. So every member essentially got 25 bucks for food, beverage, whatever. So, um, that was an expense there, and then the day of, I did provide water bottles for everybody and we ran out of those fast. So we had a person there helping us and I was like, can we get another order of that? So between the Clippers game, between the suite and all of the tickets, extra tickets, cash and beverage, that was just over $2,500 altogether.

Josh:

The ASL services as I mentioned, we had ASL services, american Sign Language. That was $1,190. Had ASL services, american Sign Language. That was $1,190. What was interesting is they said in order for a full day, you need to have two ASL interpreters and I was at first like, why do you need two? Couldn't you just have one person do that for a whole event? Well, let me tell you after seeing them in person everyone at the event will tell you this I can't believe they only needed two people. It was remarkable watching them work. So I was happy to pay that and again, we had sponsorship money, so it was covered and, because of the reasons I mentioned earlier, having Harold there there just meant so much to him and so much to us as a community to have that accessibility option. So I will absolutely factor that into the budget for every event moving forward. It was awesome and they were great. They were really, really good people. It was incredible watching them.

Josh:

The biggest expenses are dinner, typically, or food. So the group dinner that we had at the restaurant was $2,963, not too shabby for 40 people. That included everything. That included all their dinner, desserts and drinks. So not too shabby. Um, I did pay an additional $2,000 for the new videoographer and photographer, so it was just under that for the first one who, uh, is dealing with his cancer stuff. So again I was like no problem. Once I found out we had sponsorship, I was like we can invest in somebody who's definitely going to be able to do this and not have to worry about the personal stuff. So luckily they came through for us and Ronnie, the photographer, did an incredible job, really captured the spirit and just did an awesome job there. So that was $2,000. And so we're at all those things venue catering, social photography. That's over $13,000. That's most of the expenses.

Josh:

And then there was a bunch of small stuff. We got lanyards for everybody, which were 191 to order. We got tote bags for everybody for all the swag that was there. That was 210. Have to get pins. You can't do an event without pins. That makes it an official event. Pins were 145 that were customized with WDP con logos.

Josh:

I spent about 50 bucks in additional like miscellaneous cords and hookups to my computer to run the slides because they were like it takes an HDMI connection and I was like, cool. And then, as with all events, it's like a wedding. You're leading up to it and you're like, oh my God, I got to think about this and this and this and this and this. Then I was thinking, wait a minute, is it the male end of an HCMI cord or a female end of the HCMI cord? God, no. So I just got both, got both hookups and a few other things, and I got a pointer. I got a laser pointer for the slides. So about 50 bucks of miscellaneous gear. And then I'm going to put my wife and I stay in there as well, which was a few hundred bucks because it was a business expense. It was a business travel expense.

Josh:

So, all told, everything we just covered tallied up to $14,000 and $381 in some sense. So uh, but again we had over 20,000 in revenue, top line revenue. So we were able to profit over $5,000, which was great and I spent a lot of time on this. So I knew I just wanted to break even and I knew that I just didn't want to lose money. So luckily, with Web Designer Pro being so stable and having some other really good revenue streams going on right now, I was able to basically have a costly couple months leading up to this event, knowing because it's interesting miscellaneous communication and then all the the curve balls that were headed there and then, like the ASL uh company was like we should have two people, you'll get notified a couple of days before, but you should be fine. I was like Whoa, we're not. It's not like confirmed, I signed a contract. I need to know for sure.

Josh:

Um, there's a lot of back and forth on stuff like that, the sponsorship stuff. There's a lot of my time that went involved in the sponsorships because it wasn't just slapping a label on the event the sponsorships what I included were newsletter placements and I'm doing some videos for both 17 hats and site ground on my YouTube channel that were a part of that package. Jeb from 17 hats actually spoke live at the event and did a live training for my community web designer pro about lead generation and managing your leads, which we've already done. So those were all things that were wrapped up in the sponsorship and I made sure that I'd been promoting the heck out of them on the podcast, here and on social media, making sure it's really clear we're able to do this incredible event because of our sponsors. So thank you again, guys. 17 hats, what a dream team to work with SiteGround. What a great group of people.

Josh:

And term again, hans and Donata were there and they were an absolute blast. Many of you know Hans has been on the podcast. Hans got his start in sales by creating what's called the shop bong, which is a college drinking thing that he learned to sell actually a genius way to learn how to sale, to sell. And, uh, he may or may not, but definitely brought a makeshift version and a couple of us did it and it was awesome and Hans was ah, it was so good to have Hans in and out of there. Ah, just an incredible weekend. So, whew, all right, there we go. That was no breaks, by the way, we just went for this. I got to get a drink of water. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Friends.

Josh:

Again, this was kind of a half a recap of the event and then a little bit look at the, the behind the scenes on some of that stuff, trying to think if there's anything else I want to mention, I'm sure there will be. I'm sure after this I'll be like, ah, dang it. I meant to mention that, but let me just tell you we will have some recap on this and we'll have continued posts on my social media and on the websites and stuff. So we will have an official recap video that is going to be available. I will make sure that is included at the link for this one, which you can find at joshhallco slash 381. That will be where the show notes are. If you have feedback on this or questions, or if you were there and want to leave a public comment, do so on joshhallco slash eight or three, eight, one.

Josh:

Um again, I'm currently at the time of recording this, waiting on the replays of the presentations, but as soon as I get those, those will be uploaded up to Web Designer Pro. So all the replays will be there. All you need to do is be a community member to get those to go to webdesignerprocom to jump in. I will be sharing a ton more. I've got official testimonials from the event that I will be sharing on my YouTube channel and on social media, so go connect with me. Joshuco, slash Facebook or slash Instagram or slash YouTube or all three to continue to keep track on this, because I'm going to be sharing tons more about the event. And what a time.

Josh:

Thank you to so many people. Thank you to the event place. Thank you to our sponsors, 17 Hats, siteground and Termageddon. Thank you to Austin for being an incredible right-hand man. Thank you for all the speakers for their time and their serious effort in putting their presentations together Jay Klaus, sam Sarsden, shannon Maddern, jason Gracia, uh, thanks to Jeff from 17 hats for hanging with us and being a total pro and dealing with a bunch of wild web designers. Thank you to all the members who came out and made it what it is. It would not have been what it was without such a great group of people.

Josh:

So we're going to roll it back, baby and, as Aaron said at the very end of those testimonials, you're going to be busting elbows to make sure she gets a ticket for the next round. So I will be releasing details and plans for 2026 as soon as we can Probably fall. This year is when we'll release early tickets. So if you're a Web Designer Pro member, this is only for Web Designer Pro members, so you've got to make sure you're in Pro and you will be notified when tickets go on sale. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Otherwise, I'd love to hear from you.

Josh:

Joshhallco slash 380. Thank you for your time. If you hung with me to the end on this one, I hope you enjoyed this recap and I would love to hear your thoughts and, uh, what was on our pro members. I hope you're ready, cause next year we're going to roll it back and we're going to see if we can top year one, and it's going to be a tough one to top. I have no, no doubt it will be, if not better, just as good how about that? But I think it'll be even better. So I got ideas. I got ideas. All right, guys, see ya.