Web Design Business with Josh Hall
The Web Design Business Podcast with host Josh Hall is here to help you build a web design business that allows you to have freedom and a lifestyle you love. As a web designer and web agency owner of over a decade, Josh knows the challenges, struggles and often painful lessons of building a web design business without any guidance, proven strategies or a mentor to help you along the way, which is why this show exists. Think of this podcast as your weekly dose of coaching, mentorship and guidance to help you build your dream web design business. All while having a good time doing it. Through interviews with seasoned web design business professionals and online entrepreneurs, solo coaching episodes with Josh and even case studies with his students, you’ll learn practical tips and strategies for web business building along with real-world advice and trends that are happening right now in the wild and wonderful world of web design. Subscribe if you’re ready to start or level up your web design business and for all show notes, links, full transcriptions for each episode, head to https://joshhall.co/podcast
Web Design Business with Josh Hall
390 - Ai and Web Design (a 101 Overview) with Antwaun Williams
If there’s one word that can sum up where the industry of web design is right now in the age of Ai, I’d say it’s “uncertainty.”
But uncertainty doesn’t have to be bad. I love talking to people who are excited and optimistic about the road ahead and one of those folks is Web Designer Pro member Antwaun Williams (goes by A-T)
A-T is an early adopter of all tech, and when I got a chance to sit down with him in person at our recent WDP CON 2025 event, I learned just how in-the-know he is with things like:
- Where Ai is today in the design industry
- The different types of Ai available (agents vs chats vs ideation, etc)
- How to prompt any Ai tool to get the most out of it
- What Ai tools are best for certain tasks
- And what web designers can be excited about in the age of Ai
We have a great, 101 style breakdown of Ai as a whole in this one and honestly, I felt much more at ease after learning more about Ai from A-T. Hope it helps you as well!
Head to the show notes to get all links and resources we mentioned, along with a full transcription of this episode at joshhall.co/390
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When you give it a prompt, you just want to kind of narrow its focus. So I use a prompting formula RICE, r-i-c-e, which is role, information, context, constraints and examples. So I say you know, in your case you are a expert in World War, world War history and then information Basically, what tasks do you want to to do? I want you to go out and I want you to tell me everything that you can about, uh, world war one. Give it the um context um, I'm interested in it from just a standpoint of you know, being in 2025. Um, what have we learned from from this event in the past? Give it the constraints I want you to stay within a thousand words and then examples um, that one.
Antwaun Williams :I wouldn't necessarily give examples, but when you're doing a prompt, you want to give it, you want to show it what good looks like. Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast with your host, josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love. You. Build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love.
Josh Hall:Welcome, friends, in episode 390 of the Web Design Business Podcast. Now, if you have a web design business, you are probably using to some extent AI and there is a lot of valid questions, concerns, apprehensions, all the above with AI. But one thing I've really enjoyed more recently is finding the people who are optimistic about it and excited about it and, frankly, just know the different aspects of AI, because I myself am a late adopter. But my guest in this episode, Antoine Williams he goes by AT Online is an early adopter and he's been using AI since it first became quite public and I am absolutely pumped to share this conversation with you. Antoine has actually been a student of mine for years. He's been a member of Web Designer Pro for a long time and he was at our recent WDPCon event and I didn't personally know how much he knew about AI until we got to meet in person and talk and after that chat I was like dude, I got to get you on the podcast, we got to talk about this. We're diving into everything AI and for me, I was a sponge in this one. This was a learning experience for me because I didn't truly have a good sense of the different types of AI. What's the difference between JetGPT and Cloud? What's the difference between image generators and agents? What is an AI agent? How far can they go? All of those things and more are covered in this one. So if you're confused and uncertain about the AI world, I hope this gives you some confidence and helps put you at ease at the very least a little at ease, just like me after this one, before they all take us over.
Josh Hall:So enjoy my chat here with AT Williams. You can find him at smartbusinessenginescom, which is his new brand, and he actually has a resource for you. If you go to smartbusinessenginescom slash Josh, he has a brand messaging set of questions that he has made available to you for free If you'd like to check that out. And, by the way, all the links in this one, which are going to be a plenty, we cover a lot of links and resources that I have laid out for you over at the show notes for this episode, which are going to be found at joshhallco slash 390. That's joshhallco slash 390 to get all the links that we mentioned. Again, there's a ton, so I recommend heading over there after this and to connect with Antoine. All right, here is my man AT to talk about AI. Well, Antoine, do you prefer AT in web design land, Antoine, or do you go by both, especially with clients?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I go by both People who've known me forever. They still call me Antoine At work I go by Antoine. I think only like one or two people know me as AT and I answer to both.
Josh Hall:Well, it's so good to have you on man, we got to meet in person.
Josh Hall:Finally, after years of you being a student and being in pro, you came to our recent WDPCon and I mean I just want to say to kick us off, dude, it was so awesome meeting you in person and it's funny because meeting people like you're not. There's different people in pro who are really loud and you know they're there almost every day and you really know them just by logging in. But there's other people who who aren't as loud in the forums and stuff and and you're kind of one of those who's always been there but I really didn't know, aside from some DMs and coaching. You know too much about your background and where you're at and where you're headed in your areas of expertise and that was really just all uncovered meeting in person. So I told Antoine I just wanted to record a chat to make sure I remember all the stuff we talked about, because we were hanging out there and I was like gosh, I wish we recorded that chat about AI. So let's see if we can recreate some of the magic.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, sounds good.
Josh Hall:So let's start there. You do have a full-time job currently. You've been building your business pretty methodically and thoroughly over the past few years here and what I found out in person about you is that you are an early adopter of technology. Are an early adopter of technology and I think there's a, there's a need for all the different stages of adopters in the world. Like we need people who are the first to try it out. We need people like me, who are like second level, you know, second phase, and then we need people who are like all right, I'll finally start using AI at the very end. What, um, have you always been like? Have you always been a dabbler and enjoyed tech? Like, what's made you an early adopter?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I've always, always loved technology. Since I was young I was the type that would find a gadget, take it apart just to see how it works, put it back together. You know you still got like 10 screws sitting over there on the table after you finish putting it back together. So then you got to take it apart again, actually figure out how it works. But, yeah, um, always just love technology. Um, I used to read, uh, popular science, popular mechanics growing up, just wanted to see what new technology was coming out and, you know, always just love the advancement of where we were going technologically a natural born web developer there, right like, especially because I know you have an interest, so you're playing around with some of the latest tools like Etch and some other stuff going on.
Josh Hall:So, and AI, so let's dive into that, because I think it might be worth kind of just giving a lay of the land of AI from your perspective, Antoine, as somebody who which, by the way, I'm probably going to call you Antoine or AT, it's going to be 50-50. So my transcript is going to be like there's three people here, but what so with AI? Like what did you? I guess? When did AI first come onto your radar as an early adopter?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, so ChatGPT 3.5, what we know as ChatGPT, was released in November of 2022. It hit my radar in December 2022. I don't really watch the news much, but I was walking through the living room, my wife had the news on and they said ChatGPT was the first platform to reach the million user milestone and I believe it was just like five days and I was just like wow, that's something like. It took Facebook like almost a year to do and other platforms multiple years before they reached that milestone. So I used to follow Gary Vee and he says you know, you got to follow the trends and when I heard that in five days it was the fastest platform to ever do it, I was like there's something to this. So I wanted to go ahead. I set up my account and wanted to start using it as soon as possible.
Antwaun Williams :What you'll find is a lot of people say AI is going to replace our jobs, it's going to make our work that we do less relevant. But it's not actually AI that's going to do it itself. It's the people who are using AI and know how to do it more efficiently that are going to be the ones to make it in this new age that we're going into. So what I decided was I wanted to be one of those people using AI, so I just got in. I didn't even know where to start. So I'm watching YouTube videos, I'm watching TikToks and see what other people are doing and, just you know, started putting it together and trying to see how I could use it in my business. That was my introduction into it.
Josh Hall:So well said. Interesting too, that it wasn't on like a website or a forum that you follow. It was just by chance, passing by. I mean we all heard about it eventually, but I mean I don't remember hearing about it until 23. So you really just happened to get on the first wave there. I mean I know it was for a lot of people it was 3.5. The version was you know, a lot of people were already using it who were pretty tech savvy and in the industry or in the know, but to web designers in the majority of the world, yeah, that was the first exposure. I think broadly seemed like it was like what, summer of 23, maybe, maybe a couple of years ago, something like that. So what are some of the places where you stay up to date? Because I mean, I'm in communities and stuff, but I'm always fascinated to hear, like you know, where are people? Where are you getting your info? Where are you reading? How are you staying up on what's, what's fresh?
Antwaun Williams :What's new? Yeah, I um, I do a lot of YouTube, um, so I'll just search like um chat GPT, marketing, chat GPT, web design, just to see what recent videos have came out. Um, see what people are currently trying. Um, I'm in like the groups for slash chat, gpt, slash Claude, another popular AI One that I prefer for, like copywriting, I find it to be a little better. But chat GPT, with enough training, comes out with top quality as well.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, reddit, I did a lot of TikToks for a while because you get that short form. So then that's how you get a lot of the prompts. They only have time, you know, 30, 30 seconds to three minutes maybe to try to give you those tips to keep you, keep you going. So I would go through those feeds and I would just make notes of everything that I've seen and then, based off of that, what I would see other people doing. Well, how can I make that apply to my business? I work with Eric you know Eric Dingler and his thing is understanding the principle behind the practice. So I could see what other people are doing, but I wanted to make sure that I understood why they were doing it and why it was working for them. So I wasn't just copying what they were doing, I was actually implementing it and understanding it in my own business as well.
Josh Hall:What was your first use case for ChatG GPT? Were you using it for just content creation, ideas or ideation or coaching, like? How did you start particularly chat GPT using that?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, so when I first sat down, you know, I set up my account and I'm just sitting there just staring at this blank screen thinking, now what?
Antwaun Williams :So I go to YouTube and I start seeing what other people are doing, and what I actually started doing in my business was I wanted help to create consistent content for my clients. So a lot of times, you know, when you're doing brand design and copywriting, it could kind of fluctuate, just depending on the day, the mood, but I wanted to get consistent results. So that's what started me going down that path is I actually would start interviewing my clients, getting the information from them about their business, their customers, what their customers' pain points are, some of the stuff about their, what solutions they offer, what are the benefits of their business and what they offer, and then, based off of that, I would feed it into AI and clean it up. And that's where I started getting more consistent results out of the copy, out of the marketing materials that I was providing, making sure that the website and everything was just brand aligned from there on out.
Josh Hall:Gosh, that's such a great methodology right out of the gate to use AI for your clients instead of just, yeah, using it for a most. I think most people initially just used it for, like idea content creation for ourselves in some way, and you find out like, yeah, no, we could take a recorded call or a document or a questionnaire filled out. And that's what it could be really powerful and save a document or a questionnaire filled out. And that's when it could be really powerful and save you time as a web designer, like, like you rightly said at um, real for foundation, for for foundation. Here are you doing web design and marketing services. What's your suite of services right now for your clients?
Antwaun Williams :so I do. I do web design and digital marketing. Um, I am working with jason gracia so I'm doing a slight pivot to his productized model. But on my way back from WDPCon I actually pivoted from. My business was formerly Magnetic Gain, but I decided I wanted to incorporate more of the AI into it as well. I wanted to lean into it. So I'm actually rebranding from Magnetic Gain to Smart Business Engines.
Antwaun Williams :And as part of that, I was going to do Magnetic Gain with my main brand, serving all service-based businesses, and then with Jason's, I was going to niche down to just spas, spas, med, spas, aesthetics, and I decided, rather than have two different businesses, I wanted to create one umbrella and then I would offer, productize offers within an umbrella. So I have smart business engines is my main business, then for my service-based businesses, I have the market growth engine and then for spas, I have the spa growth engine. Nice didn't what was the domain that we?
Josh Hall:And then for spas, I have the spa growth engine Nice, didn't? What was the domain that we looked up together that ended up with like two point five million dollars was the most I've ever seen. A domain name.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, yeah, we looked up AT dot AI. That's right. It was available for two point five million dollars.
Josh Hall:Maybe next year. Maybe next year the product ties off for work out. That's great man. Yeah, that was. I mean I would love to see a Guinness book of world records for most expensive domain names.
Josh Hall:That's gotta be up there, maybe not. Maybe it's absolutely wild. I don't know. What about your day job? Are you using this stuff in your day job at all? I know the goal is to you know, potentially pivot from that when, when you know things are stable and you've, and you've got it all set. But yeah, what's your day job situation?
Antwaun Williams :yeah, yeah, in my day job, um, I do use ai. Um. I do a lot of scripting, so I use microsoft powershell, um. I work in it security so managing users, um, groups, access, and I would use um. I used to do it manually, of course, writing those scripts to say, I just need to pull a list of users who are in this department. Now I can use ChatGPT or Cloud. They both have great coding ability and it's trained on PowerShell scripting so I can give it a complex list of tasks that I want to complete and it'll just go through and just knock it out. So, yeah, I use it in my day job. I use it for my personal life as well. Just questions, questions that you would normally be hesitant to ask others. I just ask ask AI, no problem, you don't have to worry about being judged or anything. It'll spit you back a relevant answer.
Josh Hall:It is getting really good. I mean, I'm using it, yeah, every day for just about everything I. What's interesting is I don't, because I'm not a late adopter to ai, but I'm kind of in the middle. So I am like fully on board now and I use it all the time. But I don't think I grasp and I and I'm still kind of under trying to understand the different buckets of ai. Meaning there's large language models, like you mentioned chat, gpt, claude, grok, etc. Which are so open-ended I mean you can literally use it for just about anything. But then there are like ai agents and then there's ai implemented into just about every software.
Josh Hall:Now to where, like, we're recording through riverside, I use ai to do the snippets and do editing in this um. We're using ai, obviously, for website builders. Now there's ai in things and documents that make things a lot faster. I'm also using ai in web Designer Pro, as you know, at with Brock, our little AI agent that Circle provides, which can be trained on Web Designer Pro material that members can use and access. What are the buckets of AI? You know what I mean. Are there any other buckets that I'm not aware of? Or what would you classify if somebody were to ask you if your clients explain AI to me like what different types of AI is there? How do you explain that?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah. So how I use it is ChatGPT is my go-to for anything in general. I actually don't use Google anymore when I'm doing searches. The web search feature on ChatGPT has gotten so good that I just ask my questions there or whatever I need to search for, and it'll pull back all the results, unless I'm searching for something specifically local about a business here in Topeka, then I just go to ChatGPT for my search engine. Another one that I used prior to ChatGPT getting their search function was perplexity. It was really good because it gives you the sources, and a lot of times when you deal with AI, if it doesn't know, it doesn't say I don't know, it just hallucinates, and it'll give you an answer very confidently too and it'll sound right. So getting those sources that you can go back and check, that's key too. So perplexity and chat GPT I use for search Cloud. I use for copywriting, any type of marketing materials, anything that's like a customer deliverable I'll usually use. I may start with chat GPT, but I'll use Cloud to refine it just as kind of like an editor. And then you have your agents.
Antwaun Williams :One of the new ones that are out is called Manus Manusim. It's a pretty good one. I've done some testing with it, where you just give it a task and it just goes out and does it. You don't have to give it any further instructions. It uses different tools. It has its own like computer, that it like a virtual computer that it uses if it needs to go out and search the web, and it's very. It's getting advanced more and more. Then Gemini I've played with it a little bit. I can't really find where it fits between chat, gpt and cloud. I think fulfills both of my needs. Besides, it does do good deep research, which, because of the Google search engine, it's based off of that, so it is good for finding relevant sources as far as that is concerned.
Josh Hall:Real quick before we dive into the categories AT. For the layman like me who this is still, I'm still getting a understanding of all this. What is, what's the true difference between chat, gpt and like, claude, like? Is it what they're trained on? What is, what are the different information variables that makes them so different?
Antwaun Williams :well, um, the the main thing is their approach to how they train their models, so a lot of the data will be the same. There's a court case right now for Anthropic who is the maker of Clod saying that they used material in a. They used books in a way that they weren't supposed to, but they actually went out, bought the books, cut the spine off the books, scan the books in and fed them in. So they said that that does count as fair use, whereas chat GPT has been under some some legal issues with using pirated books. Meta with their llama model is also under some of the same scrutiny using pirated books. Meta with their Lama model is also under some of the same scrutiny using pirated books to train their models.
Antwaun Williams :Anthropic uses what they call constitutional AI, and I don't know the exact details of it, but it's supposed to make it so it's more aligned with us as humans. So if there was a misalignment and we said something like you know, your job is to protect the Earth at all costs, what if it determines that people are the reason that you know there's problems with the Earth? And to protect the Earth, then it had to eliminate people. So they have the constitutional alignment to make sure that people stay safe within the parameters that it's given.
Josh Hall:What a perfect new spin on the next Terminator movie, which is two AIs. Hasn't that already been done? Wasn't that like Terminator 3 or 4 or 12 or something?
Antwaun Williams :Oh, yeah, yeah, the two different robots.
Josh Hall:Yeah, yeah. So that is interesting, though I mean that's the big worry, right? Is that? Yeah, literally you could look at depending on what it's trained on. Yeah, I could decide what's what. What is the ultimate goal? I guess, basically, yeah.
Josh Hall:So, that's good, that's interesting. And, man dude, my head is, I am like overwhelmed, even thinking about the idea of getting like paper books and importing them, transcribing them, how that, how was that tracked? How many people were doing that? How, how and how do you know if it's pirated versus real? I mean, my gosh, those poor lawyers I don't usually have too much empathy for, for you know most, most lawyer stuff, but man do I in that one, those poor folks, gosh, I can't imagine what what that looks like.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I think it's opening up a lot of Opportunity in the future. When they say that it's fair use to as long as you purchase the book, then what you do with it after that is your business and I think that's been a big sticking point for a lot of these systems when they're trained on publicly available data, whether you purchased it or not. Reddit is in lawsuits with a couple of the AI systems saying that their information is being scraped, because Reddit is a large community and it has a lot of user generated content which is valuable. So for somebody to just come in and just scraped it, then you know if they're not using their APIs and not paying for it. They're saying you're doing a detriment to us and our community and not paying for it. They're saying you're doing a detriment to us and our community. So I think a lot of these legal issues that are going in we're going to play out to see where does AI go from here, what constitutes as valid for training data and how far are we allowed to take it.
Josh Hall:Yeah, I guess the real interesting point with that would be like, just like we have, segment is just in our world with different web design groups and different builders and stuff. It's like there's a bunch of private Facebook or paid communities where we all have our like user generated content. So I guess it would be like protecting each one of our own you know communities and groups versus having one master ai that would scrape information for all the groups. That's kind of how I'm visualizing this, just on a you know a massive scale with these different ai platforms yeah, yeah.
Antwaun Williams :And and when you are the owner of the group or the one who's leading the group, you want to protect that data because, in this age of AI, what's going to be the deciding factor is who owns the data. That's what's going to make you stand out from the rest of your competitors.
Josh Hall:So it's basically protecting IP, then right, yep, that's exactly it All intellectual property Interesting. Well, sorry, I derailed us, but so we've got large language models. You mentioned agents. I don't know much about agents, because, man, would it be nice to just be like hey agent, go through all of my bank statements and pull out our medical expenses for this year, which I have to do every year. It takes me forever and I'm, but I don't know how. Yeah, I mean, is that type of technology possible? Obviously, that's a personal, sensitive data information, but just that idea of like an agent going through different platforms, what's that look like right now?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, yeah, so it is definitely possible. One thing that I do recommend against is a lot of these AIs are using whatever data is uploaded to them as training data. So I wouldn't give anything with anything that's personally identifiable, like social security numbers, anything that you wouldn't want getting out. If you wouldn't type it into Google for everyone to see, I wouldn't give it to AI. Manusim is an AI that's actually in China, so we don't know exactly what regulations they're privy to. So when we put in.
Antwaun Williams :So if I uploaded a spreadsheet of all of my health data and it maybe contained my social security number, I can't guarantee that that is not being retained in their systems. I can't guarantee that that is not being retained in their systems. But, yeah, if you anonymize your data, then it can definitely go through and pull out those specific pieces of information. Pretty soon we're going to have like the anonymous agents, where we just we just give it a task, it has the tools necessary to complete that task and we just walk away from our computers, go do what we need make a sandwich, we come back and the task is done successfully.
Josh Hall:What type of tasks do you envision there, antoine? Is it stuff like invoice in the web design world? Is it invoicing stuff like that? Is it stuff like invoice in the web design world? Is it invoicing stuff like that? Is it admin work, depending on? Is it getting emails set up? Is it, you know what? What type of tasks are we talking about that a potential agent could go into a different system, like a CRM, like an email marketing platform, like a website, like a managed WP, whatever, like. Yeah, I guess I'm just curious, like how practical are these things?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I think it'll be all of the above. I don't think it'll be one agent to rule them all, but you'll have many agents to do each of these tasks. So an agent will be trained specifically on your CRM, one that's specifically trained on your email marketing campaigns, one that's specifically trained on invoicing, one specifically trained on lead generations, and it would just go out and it would do that task and it'll do it well.
Josh Hall:And would that be? Would you have to literally give it a login to like MailChimp, for example, to go in and set up email reminders or set up the next month of you know newsletters based off of the last template? Would it need like a login and then a training like that essentially on like how to literally manage it and create content and all that stuff?
Antwaun Williams :yeah, yeah, um, depending on the implementation of it, um, some of them can actually just log in, use a browser and use the username and password you give it, or, if you can get the api key for whatever system, you just give it that api key, which basically lets you just log in and do the task that it needs to so what, what are some of the most popular agents right now?
Josh Hall:this is probably what I'm most fuzzy on, because I see like these goofy corporate commercials for really big brands that are like uh, you know, your business runs smoother with our agents and I'm like I, I feel so, like I don't know what you're saying to me. Um, so what would like some of the most popular agents right now? That that you see.
Antwaun Williams :So right now, um, I see a lot of people building their agents using either Makecom or N8n. Those are two different platforms, no code, so it's kind of like a drag and drop builder, but it does. Like the AI automations, you can have the agents that can make decisions and then decide where to go in the workflow from there. There's a lot of new ones that are coming out. There's a one called GenSpark which can do almost everything, like. It can go out and browse the web, it can generate images, it can create presentations for your next meeting, manus, the one that I mentioned previously. It can also do these things as well. So it's a race to compete to see who can do the most, and it is beneficial to us because it's kind of like you know who can give us the most for a dollar and actually be the ones that are the most helpful to us in our businesses or even just our personal lives.
Josh Hall:How do you spell the Manus one? Is it Menace, ai or Manus?
Antwaun Williams :Manus M-A-N-U-S dot I-M.
Josh Hall:Dot I-M. Okay, got it. So apparently there's something called Menace, which looked even more sketchy. There's probably so many Menace AI they're just calling it what it is. They're like yeah, we're going to destroy humanity. They're just calling it what it is. They're like yeah, we're going to destroy humanity, got it. So, man, this is great. Man, this is all like brand new stuff. This is news to me, so I'm sure this is helpful to a lot of folks who are trying to figure out what the heck's going on. So large language models agents Are agents. What's going on behind the scenes for things like WP, zip or ZipWP or even Divi? Has the AI builder now, where you can have Divi build out a site, whether you use it just like that or a starting point, our agents are. Is that what has been deployed in all these other software programs or is that something completely different?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I think that'd be more, more of just the the kind of this, the regular chat bot, not not really the anonymous agents where it's going out and doing the task. It's saying, hey, give me a headline for this website based off of this information, and it's just giving you a normal response that a large language model would give you.
Josh Hall:So you may or may not know this AT, but like something like Divi since we're on that topic with their AI builder. Do you know like what? What did they use to build out the ai functionality? What do typically a lot of these software type programs use?
Antwaun Williams :yeah, I'm not 100 sure, but most of them, I think, are just using the um, open ai, api, um, so it's just the chat. Gpt is the underlying technology for most of these. Do you think that's the case with brock? Is the underlying technology for most of these?
Josh Hall:Do you think that's the case with Brock too, the one we have for Web Designer Pro?
Antwaun Williams :I would guess I'm not sure, but the prices for the smaller models have lowered significantly. So it's for businesses. It's feasible that most of them just use the OpenAI API.
Josh Hall:Gotcha Fascinating Is OpenAI with ChatGPT. Is that pretty much the go-to? Or would a software company use something like Claude or Grok for stuff like that? Or do they have a different API structure or something than ChatGPT?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, yeah, so they have a different api, but they could use them just as easily. You could just swap out the api and basically, um, you just pay whatever rates that they they that the organization sets how are normal business owners figuring this out?
Josh Hall:Like I'm not on the cutting edge, but I'm in this world and and and obviously I haven't done my due diligence. I mean, this is kind of why I do this show is to get familiar with all all the different stuff. So, like, this is my education here. But why, like I'm wondering, stuff like gin, spark, make manis these don't seem like things that I'm seeing in the everyday world. How long do you think it's going to be before stuff like this is? I mean, is it almost like website builders to where years ago, no one knew anything about websites and nowadays, even a small business owner who doesn't know anything about computers has probably heard of GoDaddy or probably heard of Wix or WordPress. It's likely that they've heard of different tools. Do you view AI like that, like when this is going to be more broadly known, these different tools?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah. So I think that they're going to enter in into business owners awareness. But from what I've seen just working locally with a lot of business owners, they've heard of ChatGPT. They signed up for account, they tried it, they got subpar results and they just left it behind. So I think still, even though it's in a lot of people's awareness and they're all finding out about it, even though it's in a lot of people's awareness and they're all finding out about it, I think there's still need. There'll still be a need for people like us to like just like Wix, anybody could build a website. Well, they go and try and they don't like their website and then they go find a web designer to build them a website. I think it'll be the same with AI. They'll try AI, they'll get some, they'll get some good results, but it won't be consistent enough and they'll end up having to get someone else to implement AI in their business properly and create the systems for them to do it consistently.
Josh Hall:So are there any other categories here? At as far as, like, types of AI, we've really split it into two so far, which are the large language models, and then there are the agents that are actually, you know, literally doing things. Any other like broad category of AI that I should be aware?
Antwaun Williams :of. So, like image generation, that's a big one. So, like you have your mid journeys, ideogram, chat, gpt. They upgraded their Dolly 3 model to their new advanced image generator and one of the big things is when, prior to these upgrades, they couldn't do text. When you do AI, it could do a great picture, but it couldn't do any of the text. But now, ideogram does text almost perfectly, chatgpt does text almost perfectly, does text almost perfectly, chat GPT does text almost perfectly.
Antwaun Williams :So now I can go in with a brand strategy and say create me a Facebook ad based off of you know this and that, and it'll come in. It'll have the text, it'll have the image, it'll use the brand colors and we're pretty, pretty close to where we don't have to. We don't have to do all of the you know back and forth with the customer, like I just do that one interview, I get everything that I need from the customer and from then on out I can make any deliverable that they need and we don't have to go you know where. You have a designer who designs whatever and then someone else who has to approve it. You could do like 10 different um ideations and then put a small um amount of money behind them, just to see you know what works, what doesn't. Whatever works, then you throw. You throw more money at it pour pour gasoline on the fire and then you can just hit the ground running what are we talking about subscription wise to all these?
Josh Hall:I mean, if you've got, you know, eight or nine subscriptions, is there a? You know, I've seen like some AppSumo type things where you could get a master subscription as multiple, but then it seems like, from what I've seen, there has been limitations. I know I remember in pro talk I forget what what what site it was, where they've got like basic versions of a few of these but then for like pro versions or more advanced stuff you need like its own subscription, at least from what I see so far. So yeah, what's that? What's the nature of subscriptions look like for all these?
Antwaun Williams :yeah. So for um, chat, gpt, um, just the basic plus plan is $20 a month. They do have a pro plan which is $200 a month. You get new features, you get the first of anything that they release. You get that. You get more usage so you don't hit the context limits. Then with Cloud, their base plan is also $20. And then they have two. They have Cloud Max and one is $100 a month and then the next one is $200 a month and you get more usage out of those as well. With the max you also get access to their more advanced cloud Opus model.
Antwaun Williams :So I think on the regular one you just get cloud or sonnet, but you get cloud for Opus and then it's better at coding. You get the Cloud. Code is included where before you had to go through the API, you had to pay per use. It's actually included along with that. So if you want to do any coding, it actually has that integrated in with the plan so you don't have to pay extra for it. Perplexity, I believe, is just $20 a month and that's like 300 pro searches a day. So you get those sources and grounded foundations. Whenever you do a search it'll come back with all those sources that it referenced, so that you can go back and double check and make sure that it was an accurate response. What else do they have Ideogram? It's sub $20 a month if you want to do the image generation.
Josh Hall:So they're all pretty about the same. Yeah, they all start around $20.
Antwaun Williams :But then you know, of course they go up from there, the ones on AppSumo where, like you, can get so much usage. A lot of it is token based, so you get, you get so many tokens per month or or whatever time period and then, once those tokens are up, you can either pay more or you wait till it resets to the next billing cycle.
Josh Hall:This is a freaking AI masterclass, antoine. This is great man, I like. I feel so much better having like organized 101 understanding of all this. Now. So, category-wise, we're going to have a lot of links in this one, by the way, so I'll make sure we have all these links saved. We've got Chatsy BT, claude Grok and a few others that are the large language models, which are the most common. You've got Perplexity, make GinSpark and a few others that are more agent-based, and then you've got Manus MidJourney Ideogram Is that right Ideogram?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, Ideogram.
Josh Hall:So for image, do they do video as well? Do they do multiple, like basically content creation? Is that a fair category for those?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, oh yeah, that's fair. I don't know if Ideogram is doing videos, yet MidJourney did just announce that they are doing video and then ChatGPT also has Sora, which does video Gotcha.
Josh Hall:So, if anything, most of those are image based, but a lot of them, I imagine if those are doing images, they're probably doing or working towards video as well.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, and a lot of the video generations right now is kind of limited in length, so like you can get up to eight seconds per clip and then you just kind of stitch them together.
Josh Hall:So if you want to make a longer video clip from there, so, like with Riverside, which was what we're recording in right now, I could take this recording and do a variety of different AI versions of us. We could do Muppets or we could be babies. What is that type of technology likely using out of these? Would that be more of the content? Ai versus, like a large language model type thing?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I'm not sure on that one. You know a large language model type thing, yeah, um, I'm not sure on that one. It sounds kind of like some of like the snapchat filters, uh, more of like the augmented reality type of uh just changing, changing the faces and stuff like that. But yeah, it has ai under the hood yeah, I'm just wondering.
Josh Hall:Yeah, what would that be? I'm so curious as to what some of these platforms are using under the hood, but some of that is probably proprietary. Yeah, although we can see chat GPT may know, I don't know, or Claude, or yeah, who knows? Interesting Any other categories here. At that, we're not. Uh, we haven't really talked about that you're aware of.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, um, one of the big ones that um is new to the scene is Notebook LM.
Antwaun Williams :It's a Google product, absolutely free and it's source grounded. So basically you go out and you tell it what sources you want and any responses that it gives you is tied to that source so you can link up URLs to YouTube videos, you could do PDFs, documents, websites, but then anything that you ask it is only relevant to the sources that you give it. I believe on the free plan you can do like up to 50 sources per notebook and then if you're on a paid plan I think they increase it up to like 300. But I like that one because you can also do, once you add all your sources, they do a free audio podcast. So it'll actually go through and all the sources and then give you an audio overview of all of the sources. So if you just want to learn just the overall what, what the content is about, you have a it's a two to host, two host podcast and there's going back and forth talking about the subject and it's a good way for you to learn and increase your understanding of whatever the subject is.
Josh Hall:And I'm assuming we could put this conversation in and say I want person one to be AT and person two to be Josh and have them just go back and forth with an AI podcast.
Antwaun Williams :We're not there yet to where we can actually change the voices, because right now it's just a male and a female voice and it's the same two voices out of everyone. But I think there's a what is it called like a Google Labs where you can actually change the different voices. So I think they're going to be bringing that feature out sometime soon.
Josh Hall:So Notebook LM feels like a more broad public version of what we have in Circle, which is we have these Circle bots, these agents that we can train with our material. That's native in Circle, but this could be everything from PDFs, YouTube videos, podcasts, docs, slides, etc. Yeah, which I mean. What a goldmine for web designers if you want to have something that you want to train clients on. If you have somebody who has been posting blogs and SEO and has some YouTube videos and has a bunch of slides in a portfolio, and you could load all that stuff into this and have a pretty legit knowledge base that can be repurposed or utilized as lead generators or audits or all kinds of stuff, or free you know or training resources for current clients.
Antwaun Williams :Oh yeah, definitely yeah. And you could basically have your own strategic AI that's trained on your business and knows everything, everything about you, and just give you the exact advice on whatever you need, like if you had a crossroad and you're trying to think about how you could pivot what new products should I create next? It can look at everything about your business and say, okay, according to this, you know there's a gap in this market. Maybe this should be your next one. And one of the things that I try to tell people that I work with AI is it's not just a one and done, it's a conversation. It's called conversational AI. So you know, just because it gives you an answer, don't don't accept that as the end all be all. You want to go back and forth, because sometimes it doesn't have all the context that you need, and you say, ok, I understand where you're coming from, but I need to take this into account as well. And it'll say, ok, thank you for that additional context. Now I see you know why you suggested this, that we go this angle. Um, instead of what my initial response was, and I just go it's it's. Ai has become my thought partner. We just bounce ideas back and forth and it's it's truly amazing what, what we're able to do.
Antwaun Williams :I was going on a walk the other day at the lake and I walked past a sign that said hand breaded chicken tenders. I pulled out the, I pulled out my phone and I used to chat GPT voicemail Love it, I just conversate with it, just like me, you are conversating right now. And I said what is the significance of this place saying that their chicken tenders are hand-breaded? Why would you even say that? And then it went into. Well, even if the next restaurant down the street does hand-breaded chicken tenders, the fact that they say it and other ones doesn't makes them stand out and it differentiates them from their competition.
Antwaun Williams :And then it went in because it's trained to know. You know I do digital marketing and web design. Then it went in to tell me about how I could use that same concept to differentiate my business from other web designers and digital marketers. So it's just, I just love that I'm able to just start these random conversations and then it knows so much about me and has that context that it can just bring it back into how I can use it in my own business. Would something like Notebook LM? Would that be more of an agent in your mind. No, not really an agent, because it doesn't go out and actually complete tasks. It's more of just a. It's like a knowledge base that you can query and get information back from, but it won't actually go out and like order me airline tickets so that I can go to Florida next Wednesday.
Josh Hall:Gotcha, so it's probably in the LLM bucket. It's more of a language largest model, taking a lot of info and creating assets, but not completing tasks. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good distinction. Creating yeah, create like consolidating information, creating things, but not completing tasks yeah, Yep, yeah, that's.
Antwaun Williams :One of the main distinctions with the agents is that they're actually going out and completing tasks on your behalf, gotcha.
Josh Hall:I'm writing some of this down just to help me wrap my head around this before it explodes. Very, very cool. Yeah, I do feel that seems right to me that there's, you know, creating or ideation, anything that's going on with large language models, task completion, which are agents, and then content creation, like images, video, which could guess loms, but that seems different to me. So I mean, I know, you know, chat gpt can do it, but it seems like ideogram and some of these other ones are like far ahead of claude and chat gpt.
Antwaun Williams :It seems like yeah, as far as the image generation, um, claude claude doesn't do it yet I I'm waiting to see when they when they introduce it, because, um, in order for them to I don't want to say stay relevant, but in order for them to keep up with the other offerings, if they want to get some of that market share, I think that at some point they're going to have to introduce that as a feature. Um, openai does it that as a feature? Yeah, um, open ai, just it's. So.
Antwaun Williams :When open ai uh released their new advanced image model, I actually canceled my mid journey and my ideograms. Oh, really, yeah, because it was just so good. Like I, I did a mock-up of a um technology magazine cover and it just blew me away. What, what I was able to generate with just a very simple prompt and, yeah, I was able to just say I want blue and green, I want it futuristic, and it just produced it. It took about, I don't know, maybe 30 seconds and what it produced was better than what I was able to get out of mid journey as far as word accuracy, the quality of the image. So I just went ahead and canceled those.
Josh Hall:So open art is open AI's image generator correct, or is that something different?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, I'm not sure what open art is, but the, but it used to be Dolly three, and then I think they just call it advanced image generation, is what the, the new image generation model, was called for um, for chat, gpt okay, okay, so it's actually in chat gpt.
Josh Hall:It's, yeah, it's in chat gpt.
Antwaun Williams :So if you say generate an image of, then it'll just um, it'll just generate the image right there in the chat got it, got it interesting.
Josh Hall:So an ideal tech stack for AI here, antoine, would that be having either or both ChatGPT and Claude, and then one agent, ideally to complete tasks in image generator, or maybe that's just attached to ChatGPT and using that? Is that probably a, you know, a good lean tech stack if you're going to invest, you know, a hundred bucks a month into AI, something like that?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much my tech stack. I use um. That GPT is my general catch-all. I use quad for um, anything that's marketing materials, copywriting, and I just think that the writing comes out is um better than what chat GPT puts out. Without additional training, that GPT is also capable of great copywriting, but you have to train a little more. And then I use I play with Manus AI just so I can be, or Manusim so that I could be familiar with what's going on with the agents. I don't really use it too much. I do so I did use it to where, working with Jason, I had to come up with a list of spas for me just to reach out to, and it really impressed me when I gave it.
Antwaun Williams :I just gave it the area and what I was willing to, how far I was willing to travel because I wanted to meet them in person. And it gave me the detailed list, gave me the owners, gave me their pros and cons of their websites you know what looks good, what doesn't, where's there's areas for improvement and gave me basically what to what to conversate with them about in order to get them into into my ecosystem. So, and it just just off of a single prompt and it gave me more than what I asked for. So I think what agents are going to be able to do here in the near future is it's it's going to make our make our jobs a lot easier this is wild man.
Josh Hall:What a master class here, anton. This has been great. I mean, I am curious when, in regards to training, a model like chatGPT is what I'm using on the daily and I have found that when I'm prompting it, it's taking a lot of information or it's already like it's already just assuming I'm talking about web design stuff, when I may not be, I might just be general marketing. So how, like? How do you break free from a trained model if you want? Or do I just prompt it and say don't think about any of the past stuff. Past discussions go completely off of whatever you would normally choose from online or wherever you're pulling from? You know what I mean. How do you break free from a trained model? Or is it just a matter of creating different GPTs for certain things, like one for coaching me, one for thought ideas, one for war history, like I.
Josh Hall:I was like what did? I was like what really did prompt World War I, random, you know a 38 year old dad, thoughts and uh, went in there and actually got a really good. You know, overview of World War I. That was I. Went in there and actually got a really good. You know, overview of World War I. I was like, keep it under a thousand words. Just give me, like you know, what happened in World War I. Anywho, how do we like break out of Almost like information bias? Yeah, to what we would normally say.
Antwaun Williams :You could use the custom GPTs or the projects so that you narrow down the focus to just the documents that you include in the custom instructions. And then also, just when you, when you give it a prompt, you just want to kind of narrow its focus. So I use a prompting formula rice or I, ccei-c-e, which is role, information, context, constraints and examples. So I say you know, in your case you are a expert in World War, world War history and then information basically, what tasks do you want it to do? I want you to go out and I want you to tell me everything that you can about World War One. Give it the context. I'm interested in it from just a standpoint of, you know, being in 2025. What have we learned from from this event in the past? Give it the constraints I want you to stay within a thousand words and then examples that one I wouldn't necessarily give examples, but when you're doing a prompt you want to give it, you want to show it what good looks like.
Antwaun Williams :So you know, what does success look like? And then it can make sure like whether it's a bulleted list. If you want it in paragraph form, if you want it in a markdown table, you just tell it that and then it'll make sure that it returns that information to you. When you give it all of that information, then it says, ok, I know exactly what I need to do from here, and then it'll go out and successfully do that.
Antwaun Williams :So you know, it's focused because it's trained on so much data. When you give it the role, the information, all that, then you kind of you kind of narrow that, that focus down to get exactly what you want. Another thing that I do when I'm using it is you know, here's the task that I want you to complete Now. I want you to ask me 15 to 20 questions to make sure that you have all the information you need to do it successfully. And it'll ask me the questions, I'll give it to it and then it has the full context to make sure that it can go out and do whatever I need to successfully.
Josh Hall:What was? What was rice again?
Antwaun Williams :It's role information context, context constraints and examples.
Josh Hall:Got it Cool. That's a great little framework, man.
Antwaun Williams :That's awesome, and there's all kind of like prompting formulas. I like that one because it's easy and it gives it all the context that it needs. I like that one because it's easy and it gives it all the context that it needs. As these models get more advanced, you really don't need the structure anymore, but you just want to make sure that you give it all the context. One of the things that I've started doing is I don't even type when I'm talking to ChatGPT and Cloud anymore. I have an app called Super Whisper. I just hit a key combination on my uh keyboard and then I just talk and once I'm done, I press the key combination again and then it just fills it in and then I just send it off and it has all the content, because I can talk faster than I can type, of course, and I'm able to think through what I'm saying and once, once it has all that context, the quality of the responses that I've been getting back has significantly increased since I started using the app.
Josh Hall:Interesting. So you rightly said a little while ago that the classic quote right now, for web designers, ai isn't going to take over web design or take web designers jobs. Web designers using AI are going to take web designers jobs just because efficiency, all the things that we just covered. What industries do you feel like are probably doomed? Um, in the next you know five years or so, logo designers um va work in some capacity. What do? What do you think? Editors, potentially what? Yeah, on that, if you were to forecast, you know, based off of what you know as an early adopter not that you know you're a sensei who can see into the future or anything, but what would your guess be of like? You know, if you're this role, I would probably really you either embrace AI or or diversify your skill sets. Maybe.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, so initially um AI was supposed to replace, like the, the physical work.
Josh Hall:What does that business coaches?
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, no, you're safe. You're safe, um, but what we're finding is that it does a lot of the knowledge work a lot better, a lot better than we anticipated. I still, I don't think there's any industry that I say is not going to be here in five years. But you know logo design, I can go in and get a Eighty five, 90 percent idea logo and then I just send it off and say can you, can you make this a vector? I think one of the one of the new technologies that will, um, yeah, I. I just I don't know about any industry that will be gone. Maybe lawyers, because I do.
Antwaun Williams :When I get like contracts, I upload the contract and I say read this contract and let me see any, any loopholes or anything I'm not taking into account. What do I need to watch out for what? What am I, what am I on the hook for? And it'll go through and scan it and says you need to be aware of this, this and this going forward. And yeah, I don't see.
Antwaun Williams :I think there will still be lawyers, but I don't think they'll be able to command the prices that they, that they have now, and I think that'll be the same for all of the all of the industries that are affected. You know, local designers won't necessarily go away, but they won't be able to command as much as they do now. And I just think that we just need to pivot to where, like me myself, I kind of wanted to shy away from AI or not talk about that. I use AI in my business, but now I just say just lean into it, because now I can get better results. I can do it faster, not necessarily cheaper, but I can do it at a more economical rate. For businesses who may not necessarily have been able to afford some of the hiring services that Fortune 500 companies could, I can now offer them services at an affordable rate to them because my efficiency has gone up because of the use of AI.
Josh Hall:I'm actually going to, just for the fun of it, not disagree with you, but I'm going to play devil's advocate and almost go the opposite way in saying that even a logo designer who using ai correctly and or maybe not correctly, but just using it to speed up the process may be able to command more simply because they're getting stuff done so fast.
Josh Hall:And I do think we're in a world where service providers, if they can get stuff done way faster than even building a website, if you can get it. That's why like vip days and website in the weeks are are very popular right now, because it's like, well, do I want to wait 90 days? Somebody has a booked out model, or it's like you know, a really long custom process, or can we get it done in a week? You know, maybe it's two grand more, but you know, do you want it now or do you want it in three months? That's appetizing for a lot of busy business owners. So I do wonder I'm only having fun pushing back by saying like, maybe speed, getting things done sooner and maybe even potentially at scale, maybe that's where there is a lot of opportunity for a lot of these industries yeah, um, I agree with you there.
Antwaun Williams :Um, so it's a balance between I can get it done faster, but then also other people are using AI and they're charging less, so it's kind of a race to the bottom at the same time. So then you know, I can get it done. I think we have to position ourselves more as strategic partners as far as we don't just do the commoditize partners, as far as we don't just do the commoditize. You know, you give me a task and now I do it. We also help with the strategy behind the business, how we can help them grow, how you know we got it. We got to sell. More than just a logo, I think, would probably be the key differentiator in that situation of where you can command more because you're not just creating a logo, you're creating a brand asset that makes you immediately recognizable in your industry and makes you stand out from all of your competition.
Josh Hall:So I'm so glad you said that too, antoine, because you can use AI with all these tools we've mentioned in a way to be more of a consultant, especially for web design. As we know, we talked about this in person at the event, where I think at one point I said in my coaching segment, I really am pushing for people to be more than a pixel pusher, like more than even though saying I'm a web designer opens up tons of doors, we all know you're much more than a web designer. You are a business strategist, you are a business consultant, you are an SEOer, you are a copywriter, you are a business consultant, you are an SEOer, you are a copywriter, you are a graphic designer, you are a coach. You're a lot of different things as a web designer, even if you're early on.
Josh Hall:So I think being really open about that and saying that maybe you're not a full service like digital marketing agency, but you are a full service web consultant in a lot of ways, I totally agree. I think everyone whether it's a logo designer, brand designer, graphic designer, web designer, developer if we really position and highlight those other areas of things that we're doing regardless, I think that's where those who excel are going to excel over the next five to 10 years. That'd be my two cents on it. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there.
Antwaun Williams :Well, I think that may be the next five to 10 years. That'd be my two cents on it. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there.
Josh Hall:Well, I think that may be the perfect way to end this one man, A little optimism, without feeling like AI is going to take over us all and create its own Terminator movie.
Antwaun Williams :So this has been great man.
Josh Hall:I really appreciate this. It's been a fun like 101 understanding. I'm sorry you didn't get to get your domain name, but 2.5 mil was probably what. Maybe half a million over the budget.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, just a little bit.
Josh Hall:A couple hundred thousand over. So AT you are in the midst. While recording this, you're working on your new site, but where should folks go to connect with you? And I know you're not an AI expert. On your website, you're helping service providers, but where can everyone go to connect with you? And I think you've got a free resource you're cooking up right.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah yeah, I'm currently redesigning my website. It should be live by the time that this goes live. Smartbusinessenginescom for all of the listeners. If you go to smartbusinessenginescom, you'll actually get the actual interview questions that I go through the process that I go through with all of my clients make sure that we start every engagement off on the right foot. So I take those questions, I ask them and then I actually feed the transcripts into AI and that's what I use to create the branded bots that I do.
Josh Hall:Awesome, and I think that'll be a slash, josh right.
Antwaun Williams :Smart business.
Josh Hall:Josh got it. We'll have that linked up in the show notes. Awesome, dude. Well, antoine, thank you for your time. Man, this has been so good. A lot of links. This may set a record for the amount of links I'm going to have in the show notes for an episode, but very well worth it. I think I'll be referring back to this a lot as kind of a masterclass. So, man, thank you for being so open and sharing what you know, and this has been great. I'm so glad I got to finally meet you in person and I'm already pumped for the next one man. So, yeah, I think we had a hundred percent of people say they're, they're, you know, ready to buy tickets for 26. So here we go.
Antwaun Williams :Yeah, it was. It was an awesome event and I'm really thankful that you put that on.
Josh Hall:Well, it was so great having you. Thank you for the video testimonial, by the way, they're live in prompt toou. You came, you uh, you were down to record some thoughts there with our videographer. So, yeah, man, I I obviously can't say enough about what a like turning point that was for me in the community, so thank you so much for being a part of it, man hey, you're welcome let's roll it back for 2026 yeah, we'll go back to betty and see if we can close down betty's again down the bar.
Josh Hall:Yeah, man, all right, antoine. Thanks again, dude, thank you.
Josh Hall:You feel better. I felt so much better, honestly, after chatting with Antoine after this. Just a wealth of knowledge and I love, love, love his just calm demeanor. It's hard Sometimes. It's hard sometimes it's hard to find people who are in tech but are also calm. Um, but at is one of them. He's truly kind of a beacon in the ai world. So what an honor to have this conversation with him.
Josh Hall:I count it an honor to to have him in my community web designer pro and these are the kind of folks that you can meet, guys, when you join pro. There are folks who just have different areas of specialty and interest and it is such a great collective of people. So I hope that you join us and join Antoine and 300 plus active members between all the tiers, between courses, community and coaching. So join us at WebDesignerProcom and join the fun. Most importantly, let's grow your business together so you don't feel all alone and you stay on the up and up of all the new stuff. So webdesignersprocom is where to join us. Again, go connect with Antoine. If you'd like, you can go to his website, smartbusinessenginescom, and go to the resources.
Josh Hall:The show notes for this episode joshhallco slash 390 for all the resources we mentioned. Plethora of links await you. It's kind of like a bit of a blog post over there. So head on over to get all of the resources, and I truly do hope this helps. Leave us a comment at joshhallco slash 390 to let us know your thoughts. Cheers, my friend.
