Web Design Business with Josh Hall
The Web Design Business Podcast with host Josh Hall is here to help you build a web design business that allows you to have freedom and a lifestyle you love. As a web designer and web agency owner of over a decade, Josh knows the challenges, struggles and often painful lessons of building a web design business without any guidance, proven strategies or a mentor to help you along the way, which is why this show exists. Think of this podcast as your weekly dose of coaching, mentorship and guidance to help you build your dream web design business. All while having a good time doing it. Through interviews with seasoned web design business professionals and online entrepreneurs, solo coaching episodes with Josh and even case studies with his students, you’ll learn practical tips and strategies for web business building along with real-world advice and trends that are happening right now in the wild and wonderful world of web design. Subscribe if you’re ready to start or level up your web design business and for all show notes, links, full transcriptions for each episode, head to https://joshhall.co/podcast
Web Design Business with Josh Hall
396 - High Converting Website Trends in 2025 with Whitney Bateson
This episode is a conversation I had with Web Designer Pro™ member Whitney Bateson recently on her podcast “The Growth Show” where she helps wellness professionals build and launch a successful online presence.
While she picked my brain about current website conversion trends in 2025 mainly to help her clients, we actually talked about some significant, general trends for websites today, for all industries.
She graciously let me repurpose the whole conversation for you!
If you want to know what’s working TODAY for converting traffic to customers (for you and your client sites), I hope it helps 🙂
Head to the show notes to get all links and resources we mentioned, along with a full transcription of this episode at joshhall.co/396
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Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast, with your host, josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love.
Josh Hall:Hey, hey, web designer friend, really good to have you here, especially if you are interested in keeping up to date with website trends and what is working well today for website conversions, specifically in 2025 and beyond. Of course, this is a conversation I actually recently had with web designer pro member Whitney Bateson on her podcast. She has a show called the growth show and if her name sounds familiar it's because she was just recently on the podcast, back in episode 356,. Whitney is just a true pro and she helps wellness professionals and so she actually had me on her podcast to talk specifically about websites trends, conversion tips, mainly to help her customers. But we had a really good conversation just about where web design and websites are today in 2025. So I checked in with her to see if it would be cool to repurpose our conversation for you here, and she gave me the old thumbs up. So here you go. Here's my conversation with Whitney Bateson on her show, the growth show. Give that a listen. The links will be in the description and if you would like to check her out, you can go to Whitney Batesoncom. All the links we talk about will also be over at the show notes for this episode, which will be at joshhallco, slash 396.
Josh Hall:Without further ado, let's talk about website conversion trends in 2025 with my friend Whitney Bateson, web Designer, pro member, podcast host, awesome web designer. All of the above, all right, let's have some fun. Have some fun. Welcome, josh, to the podcast today. I am so honored to have you here. I am honored to be here, whitney. I just had you on my podcast recently, so the tables have turned and I'm here for it. I'm pumped.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, I love it. I have been a longtime listener of yours. You offer just such great insights about websites and just business in general, and so I'm just thrilled. It's a longtime listener of yours. You offer just such great insights about websites and just business in general, and so I'm just thrilled. It's a little bit of like a fangirl moment too, because you've been in the game for a very long time and I think first off, yeah, just a little bit about like how you got into web design anyway.
Josh Hall:Sure, yeah, it really all started. I used to be a cabinet maker and a metal drummer and so, yeah, you know a little unrelated to web design and business, but I was doing that and I got laid off from my cabinet making job and I had always had an interest in design and creativity and so I just dove into actually graphic design initially, dove into Photoshop and stuff like that, and then what I found is I really enjoyed doing graphic design work and then I was like my light bulb moment was when we were playing a festival and then somebody asked me how much I would charge to do their artwork because I was doing my band's artwork and I was like, oh my gosh, I could make money doing something I actually enjoy, which every entrepreneur.
Whitney Bateson:I feel like has that life moment at some point.
Josh Hall:So that's how it started. It was graphic design and then, as I found out, all roads lead to websites, and I'm sure this is something you've helped your clients probably realize and maybe they get to it on their own, to where it's like you can do all the marketing, you can do all the visuals, but at the end of the day, where does all that go? It goes to your website. So I took web design pretty seriously and realized that like wow, this is the main thing I want to do. So it went from graphic design to web design. I was a web designer for a decade.
Whitney Bateson:And then I started teaching on it, which started my career into YouTube, and to doing what I do now, which is teaching what I learned and overseeing people like yourself, uh, who have web design agencies and businesses.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah yeah, I'm proud member of your membership. I had sat on the fence for a long time listening to your podcast episodes you talking about it. I was like all right, you just got to do it, and I'm so glad I did, because there's just so many like great people in there and you've built such an amazing thing clearly a lot of work and effort and it's just it's awesome watching from the sidelines, Like you just created a new like pro space to highlight some of the people in the community that are really just like, just kind of that beacon of like they're doing it right, they're doing awesome stuff, like someone to look up to and kind of just study what they're doing, and I was like that is just so cool. And then, of course, I'm like man, I should do that. And it's like calm down, Josh is building, has been building for a long time, but it's just, it's really it's awesome to see and it's awesome to be a part of.
Josh Hall:Oh, I'm so glad to have you a part of it, because I do plan on having you in the inspiration section here soon too for the next round. Yeah, so yeah, my community is Web Designer Pro. And, for those who don't know, and yeah, it's interesting because I transitioned from a service provider as a web designer to just accidentally getting into courses and then, realizing I love teaching online, built a YouTube channel, started a podcast and then went from course sales to community building and membership. So it is, as I look back, I've been self-employed for 16 years now. I got laid off in 2009. I actually love to tell people I haven't had a job since 2009, just to see what reactions I get.
Josh Hall:So I've learned a lot about different ways to sell. I've been a service provider. I've sold courses, I've sold products, I've sold community, I've sold coaching, consulting. Now I'm getting brand partnership deals and sponsorships. But there's been some constants through all that and it really is like it's your website. The website is kind of the constant through all of that. So that's why I'm even more so today, more passionate about what you can do to make sure your home, your online home, is the top converter.
Whitney Bateson:So I know that we help you folks with too.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, it's gotta be that place. So, yeah, I think that's the question. Most of the people listening, the people in my audience, most of them know deep down they need a website and they want a website. But then there's so many people that you hear talking about well, I don't get clients from my website. Or I have a website but I'm getting clients from referrals or things like that, or just people really struggling with websites, and so I think that's something we can really dive into. Today is just, you know, if you have someone coming and saying you know how, how do I get clients for my website or how do I make my, my website actually convert better, like what are some of those first things that you'd be looking at?
Josh Hall:So we could definitely get into like design and stuff like that, but I think that, overall, the most important principle to remember is that everything around websites changes and varies. You may market on Instagram for a little bit, you may market on Facebook, you may market on LinkedIn, you may invest in SEO, you may run ads, you may be involved in certain communities. All those things are variable and the one thing that's constant is you're again, like I just said, your home, your digital home, and I think a lot of people who feel like their website isn't valuable to them it's because, well, number one, it probably just sucks. Or, you know, they probably tried it themselves and it didn't go well. Or using, you know, like a crappy builder they found on a hosting company or something, or they're just not. They're not utilized Like they're not. They didn't make it a well representing home, they just, you know, threw it up there.
Josh Hall:And I think the most important thing today, especially in the wake of AI and everything else, is that you've got to build a strong home the marketing, all the other channels, the algorithms that change like I have to be completely honest, I don't care if an algorithm algorithm changes now, because my foundation is set with my home, with my community, my website home and my podcast, which is something that doesn't change either. I'm not reliant on algorithms and different market trends and stuff like that, so I just I think it's worthwhile for everybody to think about having a stable home, aka your website.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean all those things that we're doing, the visibility and all of that, like those can change. They can, like you mentioned there's. There's things that you've tried and done over the years and there's things I've tried and done over the years. But, yeah, same, same for me, like my website is where I send people, that's where I'm sending people and that's where people are supposed to be getting the full picture of what I do, and I think that's something that people don't necessarily appreciate. Business owners don't appreciate as much as, just like your, your website really should be that full explanation, in a way that your customers it shouldn't be like a, an encyclopedia about your business and why you, you know all of that kind of stuff but like that's the spot where people get the full picture. But I think there's sometimes a disconnect from that potentially and it's it's also where you can control everything.
Josh Hall:Um, like, you can control everything. You can control the user experience. In the web design world, we call it the user experience. Well, the customer experience is really what I'm thinking of. When somebody goes to a website, you control everything. You can't control how Instagram is laid out, because they may change things and then the grid looks different. Or you can't control what Facebook looks like. I log into Facebook now and there's just so much stuff. I'm like this is so overwhelming. But you can control your website. You can control how you We'll just keep on going with the home analogy like how you decorate your house.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, how you arrange the furniture, what goes in what room.
Josh Hall:Yeah, you really have the control and you just don't have control over virtually anything else online. So I think that's the true value is to own something to control it. And, as you said, whitney, and actually as you said before, we hit record. You went to go brush up on my story and you went to my website. You didn't hunt around on my Facebook or my Instagram Like you went to my website. You didn't hunt around on my Facebook or my Instagram Like you went to my website, found my story. I have a little me in a minute, which is probably what you read, I imagine and just you know you got 60 seconds. There you go. That's, that's the you know the highlights of what you need to know and it's on my website and hopefully that user flow was easy for you to find. You're not like where the heck is his story.
Whitney Bateson:So that easy for you to find. You're not like where the heck is his story. So you know, that's my design too, that's intentional too. Yeah, and something that you said earlier which was interesting, like how you phrase, is people who that aren't valuing their websites and not seeing their, their websites, as a value, and that they may not have it set up fully. And I I kind of how much do you feel like confidence plays a role both in like having a website that you feel confident about? But then also I know that I've worked with people where they actually were lacking some confidence in their services and in their abilities or their ability to sell, and that unfortunately came through on the website because the copy wasn't as strong. They maybe just didn't feel as excited to actually put this representation out because they weren't yet feeling confident themselves.
Josh Hall:I agree. I think that is a biggie, and it's harder for newer business owners or folks who are early in the journey. The thing is, though, you don't. I'm trying to go back to when I started my web design business, because I had zero confidence. The first few clients I got. Those were my first few clients. I didn't really have a portfolio at that point.
Josh Hall:So what I learned is that you can make up for a lack of confidence when you don't have the results yet with, like, genuine care, and if you're doing and I know you're helping a lot of people who are passionate about what they do and even if they don't have the client Rolodex yet or the the the confidence of years of experience and proven results, if they're really passionate about what they do. That's what I would translate. So, ideally, yeah, the confidence you build as a business owner generally comes from the results. It's like, well, look, maybe I'm feeling off this month, but you know what Whitney had this month and this is how my stuff helped her. Another member of my community just got these results, and they said it was because of the community.
Josh Hall:So that's my confidence now, but early on it was the confidence of like I'm really passionate about this. I'm getting better at my craft. I really want to help you. Your website sucks right now, so even at my level of suckage, it's going to be way better than your non-web designer level of suckage, so know. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of the the. The confidence was a genuine care.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, I think that's great and I think that's that's good for anyone who yeah, everyone's at different stages of their business and how much results they have, and creating that confidence. And I think, like when I work with our members in our program, like we're working on getting clarity and like who your customers and what your why is and all of that, and like that confidence can be built pretty quickly as long as you're like focused on it and knowing that like hey, I really need to convey like what I'm about and why I care on my website. Like you do need to stand for something, because that home if that home is like a whitewashed, generic, cold office building that looks like every other office building, because you're scared to put a fuzzy pillow on that couch, because you're you're not sure you know that, that you want to say like I care about this or I feel this way, then anyone coming into that home is not going to connect with you.
Josh Hall:Yeah, and I think a way to build confidence too which is really in line with what you do, is to have a website that is based off of what works for others, because you can actually build confidence when you have, for example, a website and it's like, oh my gosh, I suddenly look legit, I look like I've been doing this for a decade just because of the design, and I know you're helping people with copy as well.
Josh Hall:So that's a biggie too. Ideally and it's one thing I've learned with helping students in my community Web Designer Pro, which is especially the folks who are early on they're like I don't know what my site should look like. I don't know how to design it. I'm like I have a, you know, a template. This is a good starting point, and then suddenly they get that up and they look like wow, I've been. It looks like I've been doing this for at least a few years. So that's a great way to like fast track confidence as well. I mean, of course, your care, your passion, is going to trump everything, especially when, when it comes to like booking calls and booking clients and creating copy that's unique to you. But yeah, you can fast track the journey with a proven site design, which I know you're helping folks out with.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, yeah for sure. And then it's something you can riff off of and you can continue as you get clearer on on what you're doing and it just it is that loop of, like you just mentioned, like you have this site that you're now really confident about. Then you can be going out and getting more customers and all of that. So it's like this virtuous cycle.
Josh Hall:So it's like this virtuous cycle. Yeah, it's really cool too with that idea of confidence. I feel like most people who say their website doesn't do anything for them they don't send people to their website because they know their website sucks so they're like, yeah, don't look at the website. It's not something I take seriously, but when you are confident in your website, that is the foundation for every other bit of marketing. And I had a guest on the podcast a while ago and this has just stuck with me ever since.
Josh Hall:It's been like two or three years, maybe longer, but he said social media and other marketing channels is your marketing team. Your website is your sales team, and that's a very, very big distinction. And I think a lot of people may treat their website like marketing, but if you treat your website like an intentional sales process, then you can do all the marketing on any other channels that are going to fluctuate as much as you want, but you get into the website. That's where it's really clear and you don't need to be ashamed to say this is who I help, this is what I do. This is how much it is depending, or maybe it's a call to action, like book a call, and then that's the harder, not the harder sell. But you know what I mean. That's like the close. So marketing there's close. Your website is the sales yeah.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, yeah, I love that, yeah, and I think that is something that is confusing sometimes to business owners of like, putting website in, that that marketing like stack and it's like no, it's, it can do some things in attraction, you know, with SEO and all of that, but it is so sales focused. It is the last point, usually where people are coming. You know, yeah, I guess some people manage people in the DMS. For me, that would drive me absolutely insane if I had leads DMing me and emailing me and no, come to the website, one channel, go there, learn everything. And I know so many people I mean, all of us were so busy. So to be spending a ton of time re-explaining the same thing to people about what you do and answering a bunch of questions or like back and forth, and having to remember, oh, this person sent me a message here and whatnot, like that would drive me insane. I don't, I don't have time for that. So the website is what does that?
Josh Hall:Yeah, yeah. And even for folks who are doing sales via DMS, it's, it's still like if they want to buy from you or book a call, it probably goes to your website, so you can still the message still remains the same where all roads still lead to the website. You're not going to book a call through Instagram. Maybe you have a calendar link or something, but that's yeah. That's a whole nother. Yeah, you're missing the opportunity to again guide somebody with what they need to know.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah and really like show that value too, because your website often is giving that clearer picture of just how good you are and it has so much more deep information that's organized, like you mentioned in this journey, for people to explore, Whereas if you're just relying on social media or you know, profile and some directory like it's just not conveying your value, just point blank period and then if someone does book a call to get on the phone with you, it might be harder to sell to them because they're just not primed in that way that someone who visited your site, as long as your site actually had all these, these proper things on it, um, would be.
Josh Hall:I think one big important thing to think about too for most service-based businesses and providers is referrals. So if you only have a Facebook page and that's where you conduct your business and then you know you have a client, lisa, who wants to rave about you, she shares it with her friends, but they're not on Facebook. Maybe they're on Instagram, but you don't have an Instagram. Suddenly you have just lost the ability for them to like, check you out and view the story and see what you offer if they're not on Facebook. So that's another important thing in marketing now is every.
Josh Hall:There's just so many scattered uh areas of like focus and I think a lot of people are distracted on different platforms and they're siloed Like. Most people are, like really active on a couple of platforms, which means if you don't have a website, you have to get all your clients on those platforms. Otherwise, especially when in the case of referrals, you're kind of stuck Like, you have to be on there. So even more so, reason to have a home that's open to everybody, that you don't need to be on a certain platform to view the website. You just need a browser.
Whitney Bateson:so yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So what are some things that you've seen over the years that are like either the biggest mistakes or the biggest things people really need to make sure they have on a site that is focused on selling services and getting leads and customers?
Josh Hall:So, 16 years into this, as I've been looking at websites, there have been trends that have changed for sure, and it's funny because I got into web design before they were like mobile, like phones were even showing websites.
Josh Hall:So it was different back then, for sure. But what has not changed is kind of like what I said earlier who do you serve? What do you do? How do you do it? If you have a process, and then let's go Some sort of call to action whether it is book, a call or sign up here and, of course, depending on the business, there's strategies to hide pricing or just be really upfront with your pricing and have somebody purchase online. But it really is kind of the who, how, what are the big things and there's so many different variations of those. But every book, every conversion-based video, whatever it really does get into like who do you serve, what do you do? How do you do it? Maybe there's a why in there if it's really, really passion-led, but sometimes why isn't as important initially to some people, because when people look at a website they're selfish, they want to know what's in it for me, so, yeah, those are kind of the main elements. I just always and I've been going back to that for sales pages, for landing pages, for lead generator signups who, what, how are some of the big ones? So different variations of those?
Josh Hall:Um, it is interesting, I think, now in the age of just so much information, so much stuff. I know a challenge I've set for myself is to be more concise and a little more brief, and I remember one of our coaching calls and WebCenter Pro. We talked about sales pages being not as long just because people are scanning so fast. So I almost feel like brevity is is maybe like a current trend that is worth thinking about. Like, how can I get this sales page or this website homepage to explain exactly what they need? Not everything I do and not not everything, but just what do you need to move forward or make some sort of decision, without saying this is too confusing, I'm out. That's, I think, the challenge for everybody, whether you're a web designer or a service-based business, whatever. I think it's some sort of brevity and again, if you go with the who, what, how type of thing, start with that, start with three or four sections on a homepage and you'll probably go from there. You'll probably be pretty good.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, I mean that's. The interesting thing about all of this is that it is not a complex formula, it is not a hidden secret and it doesn't require. I mean, I was actually just meeting with another web designer and we were talking about some of those builders that are all very pretty, very aesthetic. There's lots of overlapping elements, you know there's all these things, but is that really generating the ROI for people? And so there's always like new builders, new designs, new aesthetics, trends and all of that.
Whitney Bateson:But, like, what actually makes a website convert is not a very complicated thing, but it requires, like you were just mentioning. You know, if you're going to be brief which, yeah, I've often told people like, writing for the web can be more difficult than writing an email or a blog post or something, because you need to get that point across concisely. But you also still need to be using language that's not generic, it's not jargony, you know it's, it's got to be spot on, but then when you do that, like that's it, you don't need to have a bunch of bells and whistles to make it work.
Josh Hall:And I think a lot of people who who are outside of our industry of web design, we kind of have learned this over the years, but most people don't know that people scan websites. They don't read websites unless it's a blog post or an intentional piece of long written content. But I think if everybody knew that or realized that I have to make it scannable, that will help with the idea of keeping things brief. And you're totally right, whitney, it's so much easier to write 1500 words talking about your processes and your sales and everything you do, versus how can I get this down to like 300 words for this section or something?
Josh Hall:One of the most important things, that it really does take a lot more work to make things brief, but man, is it worthwhile. So, yeah, I really think. As far as what has not worked, I think it's people adding too much complexity and just too much, especially to a homepage. A website homepage, in my view, should really be more of a high-level directory journey. What do you need to know? Where do you need to go to get more? Maybe you do want to know more about my web design services. Well, there's a page for that that goes in extreme detail. But if you just want to know how we help, what we do, when you're ready to move forward here, it is Boom, boom, boom. Here's who we help. Here's what we do. Here's how we do it.
Whitney Bateson:Here. Here's the call to action. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny. You know I look at a lot of websites and how often services are missing from the homepage. It's interesting because it's like well, that's why your website exists and there's a lot of other copy, but for some reason, the services are not just clearly written on the homepage and I feel like even spending some time to just say what, like you were just saying who you serve and what is it that you do, what are the things you actually do? Having that up front goes a long way from people having to like hunt and peck and you know what is I mean. Yeah, they'll see the services tab in the top bar there, but it's like your homepage should be talking about what you do. Like you said, it should be that directory of like all the other content on your site, just little like snippets.
Josh Hall:And so I always go back to our my wife and I's wedding photographer, because wedding photography is one of those industries that could, and often is, for a lot of photographers, very open-ended and they just kind of let the groom and bride, you know, create a, you know a suite of services. How much, how much? You know variety do they want? How many pictures? All this stuff and our photographer was such a pro. I actually learned so much from him and I used to not like packages. I used to be very against having like a packaged type service until I worked with him because he even said on his photography site he's like I never liked packages but I love them now. And here's why because we know what works and you know, within a certain context, depending on what you need and what your budget range is, this is where you can fall into. We were in the middle package for him.
Whitney Bateson:He had three packages and yeah it just that was by the design. The middle package is usually the best one, it was by design.
Josh Hall:Yeah, we wanted a little more than the first one offer, but we weren't at a place where we could do like that top. I don't know, it was like a $10,000 package or something like that. So I think ours was like a $3,000 package, if I remember right, which was a decent investment, but still it was reasonable investment but still is reasonable. And that really did change my thoughts about what you offer and making it really clear I made it an easier decision.
Josh Hall:I think a great way to lose business is to make things vague. That's a great quote. If you're too vague and it's not clear again, just going back to the plain old, simple who you serve, what do you do, how do you do it? If that is not clear, that's when you're going to lose sales from your website because it's going to be like well, this person seemed cool, but I actually don't know what they do. And if somebody can't look at your website and then leave in a few minutes and say this is what they do, that's a very, very worthwhile thing to improve on. So, yeah, as far as, like you know, showcasing your services, absolutely, whitney, share what you do. Make it really clear If you can package things up in some sort of way even better.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, yeah, I mean, we were getting a sandwich at a sandwich shop no-transcript.
Josh Hall:When we go to a restaurant we don't want to, we're not, I'm not the cook, Like I, I don't know, I want you to. You know, yeah, I might have a little bit of variety or have options, but yeah, at the end of the day you're totally right, you need to be the chef and you know they are your, your restaurant, the, you know the diner, so totally.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, we were talking before we hit record that I eat all across the world. I eat my way through many countries and so, yeah, those are like the most clearest analogies, Like, yeah, it's just, if you're not doing that, your customers are kind of like a lot of people, um, maybe sell sessions and like even packages of sessions or something like that. But I would ask people to go even further and say, really, what is the result? You know, I mean, I was even it's like people are buying solutions. They're not buying sessions they really want.
Whitney Bateson:Because you bought the package that solved the problem that you were looking for. You want this many photos. Maybe you didn't want a video, so it didn't include also videography and all of that, and it solved that problem for you. Specifically, you knew that package was right for you and you knew what result you were going to get at the end. That package was right for you and you knew that. You were like what result you were going to get at the end.
Whitney Bateson:And I think that's also sometimes the challenge with websites, where it's it's saying like we're going to do all these things and whatever, but it's not really clear Like, what are we working towards? Like, are we actually going to get the result that we're looking for Is it? Can we really achieve what we're wanting like? I was looking at one website recently about some weight loss services that someone was offering and it was like three sessions and I don't know that anyone's going to get a ton of results that they're really excited about in three sessions and that goes for so many different health related things like that's just not enough time, and so I would encourage people and it can be scary like putting higher price things together but if it's going to take three months to really get your customers what they want, then that's what you should sell them.
Josh Hall:Yeah, and that is tough with websites, because sometimes there is a lot of marketing at play that help websites. Like we've talked about, there's sales, which is your website, but then there's marketing. If you don't do much marketing to drive traffic to your website, then you're not going to have as many opportunities to sell. One thing that I found, though, is that you can still, with a few improvements on your website, help sales, and we call it conversions, which is just on your website. Help sales, and we call it conversions, which is just moving somebody from a potential customer on your website to an actual paying customer or somebody who books a call. There are a few things. You can do that, and it can be very measurable on a website, so that's generally what I would aim for, as a first level of results is like, let's say, 100 people are looking at your website in a week, and you know 99 of them have left without doing anything.
Josh Hall:Well, what if a few tweaks? What if having one call to action button instead of five, with different options to go into? What if it was just book a free call, or book a consultation, or sign up for a free 15 minute session? What if that was the main thing. And then 10 people out of those a hundred move forward with that. Suddenly we've increased that conversion. By what? Would that be? 9%. So that's like a measurable. Is that right?
Whitney Bateson:I should never why do I do math on the fly? So it's a terrible.
Josh Hall:I always get myself into this. I don't know why. You know. I feel like when you're doing results though, because it's just like there's a thing, but that's just a lot more, a lot more.
Josh Hall:That's a practical example of how like this was something controlled on the website we didn't have to do any new marketing or ad spend or or any networking or anything. This is just purely what is is on the website. So when it comes to those results, uh, no matter what industry it is, I always recommend focusing on what you can control currently, because really, would it be better to get 10 more people to move forward who are already on your website, or invest $1,000 in a Facebook ad campaign? I would start with on your website, because it's something you control.
Josh Hall:I would start with on your website because it's something you control, and then, when you add $1,000 to an ad campaign, you know it's going to the website's primed and ready to attract more people. Yeah, Convert more people.
Whitney Bateson:And so simplifying CTAs is one thing that you mentioned could be one of those things that could improve things. Could be one of those things that could improve things. I would probably say looking at the copy and like a stronger headline, for example, on your homepage, and looking through it. What are some other things that if people want to kind of do some experimentation right now or look at their site, that could maybe make those like really huge shifts without actually having to like change a whole bunch?
Josh Hall:Who is behind the brand, like who is behind the business. I can't stress this enough, especially today, in 2025, especially if you're a service provider of any kind. I know you're helping out a lot of folks in the wellness world, so I mean pretty much every one of your clients is a service provider, just like right. So yeah, even more so, I'm shocked at how many web designers you know who I coach. I look at their websites and I'm like I have no idea who's behind this. I don't know I had. There's nothing about the founder, the creative director. I don't know how big the team is. Is it one person who's living in their mom's basement, or is it an agency downtown with like 30 people? I have no idea. That is more crucial than ever. People really do want to know who they're going to work with. So, oh my goodness, get you on your website.
Whitney Bateson:I hit a nerve. I love it. The world needs to know.
Josh Hall:The world needs to get themselves, and I think a lot of people used to feel vain about that, but it's just so important now more than ever. And the cool thing is, you don't need to be like an influencer, it's just especially like, for example, a handyman. If I have an issue with our house and I'm going to try to hire a handyman, I want to know who the heck is literally going to be walking through the door and who are going to be around my children Like. That's really, really important. If you go to a yoga studio, I'm going to want to know the instructor like a little bit about. Who are they? What's their background, even if it's just high level, like like you looked at with my site, just a me in a minute high level, like you looked at with my site, just a me in a minute. What's the high level? Brief, just highlights of a story that is so, so important, especially when it comes to hiring something out where you're going to trust them to do something for you.
Josh Hall:In the case of building a website or creating a fitness plan or nutrition plan, people, I think, more so now than ever, are a little more interested in just liking who they're going to work with and feeling trust and comfort with them. So, yes, long, excitable way to say get you on your website and don't hide. Don't hide behind your brand, hide behind the website. There's two specific things I would do have an about page, for sure, or a story type page, and then put just a section on your homepage that I like to call a founder's note, or it might be like the CEO note, whatever you want to call it, but it's that. That way, if somebody scans the website and they don't go forward into other pages, they at least see okay, whitney's behind this, or you know.
Josh Hall:Again, go back to Lisa. Whoever Lisa is, lisa is the instructor, lisa is the dietitian, whatever it is, and it's just a quick like hey, I'm Lisa, I did this for years. This is this is why I'm passionate about this. Now, learn more about my story, click here. Or meet your dietitian. I love to tell people have for my folks. Meet your web designer, cause it just gives a little like yeah, this is going to be the person potentially, you know, designing my site.
Whitney Bateson:It's almost like a little sales trick before you even move forward. Right, right, yeah, I love it. Like, yeah, me, yeah, meet your dietitian. Yeah, I, I, it's.
Whitney Bateson:It's funny because I was looking at my Google analytics and I saw how many people were clicking on our about page, which I had neglected for years, and so I mentioned to you we're we're redesigning our site and, uh, the about page is the first page where you're like, all right, we just got to do it, and luckily I have a team with me now, so like I can kind of take some of the onus and be like all right, just like, put together a structure, we'll put together some copy, and you know, but, yeah, it's important and you know I think you're maybe alluding to part of now more than ever is that there's also just like a lot of AI generated crap out there and people want to connect with real people, and there's websites that are, you know, sometimes just like put together by who knows what, and or there's websites that are, you know, sometimes just like put together by who knows what, and or there's advice out there that is coming from who knows where, and especially when it comes to, like, our mental health, our physical health, you know, people trying to plan for a family or they're caring for the kid, their the health of their kids, like they want to actually work with a real person who they can trust the health of their kids like they want to actually work with a real person who they can trust, and that I mean I.
Whitney Bateson:There's also stories of just like people getting burned by healthcare providers, you know, not being heard and listened to, and all of that, and so I I completely agree. I mean, the trust factor is just so huge and important, especially now especially now, I think, the age of big corporate structures, agencies.
Josh Hall:I think they are all in a very, very hard place because so many people have been burned by agency-style service providers. The perfect example is how many of my clients told me I really don't want to work with a big agency. We had big problems with a digital marketing agency, and that's not uncommon, because they have big churn, they have different departments, they're working on keeping people in their own building and then you're often treated like a number. I will give one little pro tip that has worked on my site that I will work in any industry and that is to highlight where you're at in the market or a bit of a Almost like a why me, like what's different about me, and I always found myself Because I had a very small team. I just had a few contractors that work with me and I created a graphic because I found myself telling potential clients all the time I'm not a stressed out, overwhelmed solo freelancer, but I'm not an agency and I've made it very clear that I'm not a big agency. You will work with me and I have a few team members that you'll hear from, depending on the project and that little graphic that I put on my homepage.
Josh Hall:So many web designer pros have done that to great success, which just lights me up, because people love that. They're like yes, I want somebody in the middle. I don't want the freelancer who I'm never going to hear from because they can't keep up with their email, but I don't want to be a number on a spreadsheet for an agency. I want the sweet spot. So if you can really articulate your sweet spot in there as well, that's a that's a big, big piece. So sorry, I think I took us on a tangent, but yeah, absolutely Like really getting clear on who is behind it and, yeah, what separates you where you're at in the market. I think it'll. I know it's a huge boost in conversions and people moving forward.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, yeah, these people are looking for that personalized care, and a lot of um listeners in in my audience they're they're offering the one-to-one services.
Whitney Bateson:Even if you're offering one-to-many, even if you have someone who's co-coaching with you in a group program or you have another practitioner, being upfront and clear about it, there's nothing wrong with I think I used to also Back in the day I thought people were just hiring me because I designed the websites and I was like, oh, I can't. You know, I don't want to start saying that like I have a designer and I have a developer, like they wanted me and it's like no, they just want a website, they want a great website. They're coming to me because they trust me and that trust extends to that. I'm bringing in the people on my team that are going to do a great job as well. And so if you have a virtual assistant who is going to be helping with billing or day-to-day administration with your clients, or you are going to have a second practitioner that maybe is going to handle some of the appointments, or people can book with you or book with that practitioner, put that up on the site and that can actually be a really great differentiator.
Whitney Bateson:Some people may love that that it's like, oh, there's additional support, like you were saying, and just saying, yeah, this is the team, and I think that's great.
Josh Hall:Absolutely. And to take that one step further, I would be really upfront with their, their role in the business, like because I didn't have anybody. Well, I had a couple, basically full-time. I had one lead designer who was full-time, and then my wife helped out with the business for a while before we had kids and my team page was literally us three. And then I had collaborators and these were folks who had areas of specialty and I even put on there. They assist with projects when needed or when called upon, and clients love that. And I found the same exact things with my analytics here. Whitney, which was my top pages on my website were my portfolio and my about page about everything else.
Josh Hall:People want to know, they want to see what you do and they want to see who they're going to work with. That's so important and again, use your homepage to lead to those for more detail. But huge, huge, huge, huge, because it's key, it's crucial. And again, like I said, the days of AI are here and there's just so much stuff. I think people more than ever want guidance and they want clarity and they want some like peace. They want to know, like, okay, I'm in good hands, I'm in. You know Josh and his team. They've got me. They're going to make, we're going to make this simple for you, don't you? You worry about your business. We're going to worry about this. That's key, and I know, I know I've seen your sites. I know it's what you're helping your clients out with too. It's to position them as the guide and story story brand world, which is the story brand book that teaches. You're the guide you want your client to be the hero and man. If there's ever a time for that, it's now.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, I agree. I mean, and I think that there are some some dietitians, nutritionists and coaches out there that are feeling the crunch with AI, because sure, there are people that can go and get a meal plan off of Chachi PT and think that that is enough, and why should I be hiring you and paying for you? And so there is that feeling of like, okay, how do I compete with that? But I think it goes back to humanizing and showing the value and showing that connection, and there's so much more that people need and that people get from working with an actual practitioner. So I don't think that we should feel that AI is coming to take our jobs as service providers. I think it just maybe is changing how we're showing up for people.
Josh Hall:What you said right there is key, whitney. There's so much more that people need with a real practitioner and I think that's what would be the things to drill into. That's what you get on the homepage, that's what you're going to find here that you're not going to find elsewhere, what you're going to find here that you're not going to find elsewhere. And it's interesting. I think all coaches in every industry have had that fear of like, yeah, you can go to ChatGPT and you can get a diet plan or you can get a structure of a web design business. In my case, and I thought about that, I'm like I mean, I could ask you this, I guess. But we had our recent in-person event for Web Designer Pro a couple months ago and it really gave me a good window into why they have joined and why they stuck around. And one member told me of all the people she's followed in the web design space, I'm the only one that she feels like truly cares and it kind of goes back to that thing I said earlier of just a genuine care. That is something that is sensed and that is you can't fake that People can tell when you're just a hustler trying to build something to sell it or just trying to build something quick and they don't know what kind of support they're going to get. So I think, even more so if you can somehow get that across, whether it's through copy and messaging, whether it's through a person like a video on your website overviewing your why and talking about why you do what you do that goes a long way. Podcast interviews or podcast show, anything like that Anything you can do to get you on your website, like the personal side of things. I think now is the time for sure.
Josh Hall:Yeah, let me ask you that real quick. Why did you join? What was it about? Because you could have gone in. You could have gone to agency mavericks, which is uh kind of a competitor of mine. Shannon mattern's a good friend of mine. You could have gone into her, uh, and she's great too. But like what was there something? Yeah, what was it about my stuff that helped you? What did I do right in the conversion process?
Whitney Bateson:It's a great question. Well, yeah, I also felt that you genuinely cared. I had gotten a lot of value from your podcast in the past, like the depth of information and like just the quality of information I had gotten from you in the past and how much you already put into your podcast that I wanted to learn more from you. I just was like there's more things I want to figure out and I want to be in a place where there are other people learning and I can get Josh's input and I can learn from you and make sure that I'm doing all the best things that I possibly can with your courses and all of that. I just felt like, okay, I've gotten so much good stuff up to this wall and if I feel like there's so much additional amazing stuff past this wall and I trust that there is because I trusted you and that's why I was, yeah, ready to move forward.
Josh Hall:That's great. I appreciate hearing that, whitney, and it reminds me of the importance of implementation and transformation and, I think, for your clients. I imagine you probably get questions about like if I post all my content online or marketing, who's going to pay me for anything? Because it's all there. And as a content creator, what I've learned is that most content you're doing on blogs or social media podcasts, videos are going to be snacks of some sort. They're going to be a little bite-sized things, but after a while you realize you've got an overwhelming amount of stuff and not everyone's going to be able to like. My podcast is almost 400 episodes now no one's going to like. Listen to 400 episodes and have a very clear like. Okay, here's exactly what I'm going to do Right now.
Whitney Bateson:I know what to do.
Josh Hall:My goal is to get them into my world to where here's a clearer plan and for somebody like yourself who's established, your path is different than somebody who's in the first couple of years of their business. So you need more like intense, like coaching style approach to your stuff. And so for wellness providers, service providers, you can have that same approach to where there's probably going to be a bit of a different path again, depending on the package that you want to create for people. So that's just for anyone who has that question of like who's going to pay me if I just put all my content online? They're paying you for transformation and integration of all that information. There's information. Then there's transformation. Information is free if you want it to be Transformation. That's when they pay you.
Whitney Bateson:That's so good. That's such a great way to think about it Because, yeah, I've definitely heard that question come up before and it can be tough and it can feel like we're giving away a lot and you know it comes with time. I think, like marketing is a muscle, you have to keep working and all of us coming out of college do not have strong marketing muscles. Whatever degree we got, whatever job we had, did not prepare us to be a marketer and know you know what. What should I be talking about? How much should I be doing? But honestly, the more you put out, it gives people more chances to learn from you and trust you and and understand.
Whitney Bateson:Like your approach I mean, that's another thing too is just, you know I, I am not all about like grinding it out and hustling and like just going real hard. Like I, you know I want my life to be enjoyable and all of that, and so I like your approach. You, you know you spend time with your family. Like you, you seem very calm and easygoing and like that's what I want. So I think it's it's just, it's not just about the information too, it's when you have these like personal ways for people to get to know you. So whether it's a podcast or whether you know you're putting out reels or Tik TOKs or any short form kind of video content, um anything. People are just getting to know, like who you are and how you think, and and that also goes a long way- that's a good point.
Josh Hall:I actually love that we're talking about this, because now, with AI, especially you, you just cannot safeguard your information anymore. Information, whether we like to admit it or not, has devalued. So what is the value now is the implementation, the personalization, the transformation that you get with that information. So did I say that? Right, that just tied a knot in my brain saying all that, but yeah, uh, clip it. So that and I say that because, like anybody is, and I've had so many conversations with people who are like you, just like you just give everything away how are people paying you?
Josh Hall:But people don't want to pay for a buffet of everything. They want to pay for what they need. And, especially now, most people want a faster result. So, like I don't want to invest in, you know, like a dictionary size nutrition book. I just want to know, like, here's where I'm at, here are my goals, what's the fastest path that will get me here? That's what I would pay for, that's what people are paying for in any sort of wellness. I know for sure, and you know that's what I. That's the model I've tried to approach and I'm continuing to refine in web designer pro.
Josh Hall:My community is like meet people where they are and give them a path to follow, and I think of every service provider. Yeah, I just think right now is the time to like, not fear your information. Put everything out for free if you want as far as information, but then have the next step. One thing to remember, too, is if you have, let's say, 300 videos on your YouTube channel and that's basically all your stuff, but somebody is not going to watch 300 videos. But if they had a place where there was a path for those 300 videos, that would help them get a result, along with some other, whatever it is coaching or personalization or an action plan, that's what they pay for. So, yeah, information is purely the means to get to the result. Yeah, that is that's probably the biggest shift that I've seen with like content and marketing is not even that long ago. Five, six years ago, information was like oh, no one, I don't want to. No one's going to see my web design contract until you pay me, or no one's going to see my process.
Whitney Bateson:Now I'm like here's everything and then this is how we do it. You want to implement it?
Josh Hall:You want community behind you. You want some coaching behind you.
Whitney Bateson:You want to do it faster. Come on in that goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that's just great for us to think about with with what we're putting on our websites and the kind of messaging that we're putting around. You know our process or what our package is offering and all of that, and it's it's like, yes, it's fine to include and talk about. Okay, maybe they're going to get a meal plan or they're going to get a foods list for fertility or something like that, but, as we know, the value of those things is a little less important these days than maybe it used to be, because of just the availability of that kind of stuff.
Whitney Bateson:So, what are the other things that are going to help that you know AI can't really help them with, or you know that they're going to get stuck on. What are those challenges that you've seen time and time again that your clients are are struggling with that they actually come to you, come to a coaching call and talk about that. That's the kind of stuff that you need to describe on your site. That is actually part of what you do, because then they're going. Some people may not even realize that. Oh, you know, going back to, like I can't do that for you. People may not realize that what they're missing, you know, by by just going to AI. So it's like these are all the things that are going to trip you up and this is how we're going to overcome them.
Josh Hall:And I feel like in the wellness world. Am I right in saying that, like everybody, has a story in the wellness?
Whitney Bateson:world. Everyone probably has some sort of before and after.
Josh Hall:Yeah, probably everyone has some sort of before and after transformation and that immediately puts you in a position, even if your brand spanking new into it, of maybe not being an expert but being a guide in some way, and that's the kind of thing that will just additionally going back to like about page, like a story, giving even more a boost of conversion and trust in you, because it's like, even if it's a minor increase or, you know, or decrease in weight gain, you know, whatever it is, it is, even if it's a minor transformation, that still is a big deal that can be used.
Josh Hall:I hate to say it like this, but that's your marketing. Your story is your marketing. Yeah, and yeah, I think, if people I do wonder if many people are unintentionally or intentionally hiding that story and my gosh, is that important to get out there? Because it gives a level of trust that someone's like okay, this person has done this. Because there are so many options, I don't think. I think it's more important now than ever to be really personal and open about your own story. Getting that out there and that real.
Josh Hall:That will help, especially in the age of ai, because it's personal you know and somebody can see, if you can see yourself in this person and be like, oh yeah, I want that. You know, even if it's a minor, a minor thing, that can be a huge converter.
Whitney Bateson:Yep. So I think the moral of the story here is, when it comes to getting more clients to your website and fixing a website that just isn't isn't getting any, any leads, any calls, and all of that isn't getting any leads, any calls, and all of that. It's not some secret that is guarded in terms of what makes a website work. It's the things that we covered today. It's minor shifts, which I guess if your site is completely all weird, then maybe they're slightly bigger shifts, but there are things that are not rocket science in terms of what needs to be on your site and how you need to be talking to people. That is what is going to make people want to click the link to book a discovery call with you. That's what changes things.
Josh Hall:Yeah, maybe it's worthwhile doing like a priority list here, because we probably gave everyone like 17 things they could do. But I think the most important thing and again a lot of this is what you help people with. You know out of the box. So probably preaching to the choir here, but one call to action is is still king. I I think when I like you, you can't have secondary like you could have book a call, find out more, or whatever. But you know really like if what do you want somebody to do on your website? If you want them to book a call, find out more or whatever, but really what do you want somebody to do on your website? If you want them to book a call, it should be book a call. If you want them to pay you, it should be sign up now. Clear as day, clear as that. So that's the first thing to start with.
Josh Hall:Probably the next big priority item upon any of that stuff is the clear packages. Even before putting your story on there, I'd probably have really clear offers. It really is called action. And then the offer you've got to clarify the offer, package it up, like we talked about, even if you just experiment with ranges or just types of packages that will help. That will definitely help until you reel it in and then you're like all right, I have three people kill it in this package. These people kill it in this package. There you go, you know, a year from now, you have extra clear packages, but do that, I'd say.
Josh Hall:Number three is probably personalization Get you on your website, if it's. If you're not there now or if you're not already clear, don't be afraid of your story. And then have that little you know fat in the wellness industry. It's probably not founders, note. It's probably more of like a meet your guide, you know, meet your instructor, whatever that is, and just have a little bit about who they're going to work with. And don't be afraid of having a team page, like you said, absolutely.
Josh Hall:And then I would probably say, go further into the copy and the messaging. And of course you know all these things are very important. But if I were to set a priority list, that's probably how I would go about it, and a lot of these things can be done pretty quickly, especially with your sites. You do it in one day. So a lot of those things you just knock them out. But that's probably the focus I would do on.
Josh Hall:There is the copy and then the copy is going to get into things like results and getting some social proof from from clients and really putting that in there Cause results. Some people aren't always initially attracted to like monetary results or measured results as much as feeling. And, like you said, I don't think you join my community thinking I want to hit a certain revenue range and Josh is going to help me get there. You joined because you just wanted to make sure you continue to have a feeling of of your business, of freedom and stability, and that's great. Like some people do want to just make a certain amount, some people just want to feel a certain way, um, and you can kind of you know all these things together can help people with that yeah, I think it's good to speak on both of those.
Whitney Bateson:Like you know, if you have something that's qualitative or quantitative, like that's great. But yeah, focusing on I felt. So I felt, like you know, more heard and seen than I've ever felt with any other practitioner before. You know, like just even those kinds of things can mean so much to someone who's looking at your site and they're sitting in that same boat right now and that's what they're looking for. You know what.
Josh Hall:I would do too is for wellness providers, like send out a survey, do a bit of a audit with past clients, and most most clients will be happy to do that for you. And because I did this in pro last year and it was so, I got so much copy that I didn't have to write or think about because I just asked people what do they like about in pro? How has pro helped you on different levels. Some it was revenue, some it was feeling. The overarching thing that I learned that pro helps with my community is confidence, and I really started leaning into that more.
Josh Hall:And when I'm talking about web designer pro and when I'm having on the, the landing page, my home page, so I would encourage everyone to potentially, yeah, you know, when it comes to copy and messaging, if you're stuck and you're like, what should I write? Well, number one, you, you know, you guide them, I know on that. But, and if you really want to get into the granular stuff, yeah, do a survey, do it on and just say like, hey, would you, you know, make it short, would you guys be willing to share how my services have helped you? Um, either you know literally physically, or maybe it's more emotionally or mentally.
Whitney Bateson:And then there's your copy and that's what you put, that that's what helps separate you from everybody else yeah, I love that so much and I think that's like just do it, Don't overthink it and be like, oh, you know it's. I'm asking so much from people. It's like, no people, if they're happy, they're happy to to share that with you and help you out, and I think that that's just like such a great tip that everyone should, should, do.
Josh Hall:And guess what? You just got like 20 weeks of marketing material. When you get 20 people who tell you what they've done, you just landed 20 testimonials accidentally as well.
Whitney Bateson:So, yep, stories you can share and and all of that. So I love it. Yeah, Well, Josh, this has just been such a great conversation. We covered so much ground like way beyond even websites.
Josh Hall:This is really good I loved. I love this too because it's you know, I just I'm such, I'm so ingrained in the web design world. It's it's good for me to step out into the broader service-based business, since I don't build websites, you know, anymore. I full-time coach web designers. So, yeah, I really enjoyed this. This was a good. This uh got me, got me thinking about some stuff that I want to implement. So I really appreciate it. Great questions and yeah, I really hope this helps a lot of your folks Because, listen, if you can learn from web designers, who better to learn from as a service provider than folks who are in the know? So I don't want to toot our own horns, but I'm going to toot our own horns and say listen to us, because we're in the thick of it. Every day we're seeing this stuff play out in real time.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, right, that's true. We're kind of at that top level. We're seeing what's working, what people are talking about, and, yeah, that's what people should implement. Heck, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much, josh. We'll put your website in the show notes so people can visit and check you out, and even though we don't have web designers necessarily listening, you do cover some good business topics on your podcast. So I would recommend people, if they do want, to just skim through your library of episodes like you just do such a wonderful job and if there's an episode or two that like peaks their interest, just as a business owner and entrepreneur, I think they should totally listen.
Josh Hall:Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah, definitely, you know. For fellow podcast listeners, my show is the Web Design Business Podcast, but you're right, about 50% of it is just marketing and online entrepreneurship. Actually, by the time this goes live I don't know if it'll be live yet, but we've had some really good conversations recently about marketing, specifically on like LinkedIn and Instagram.
Whitney Bateson:Oh yeah, I saw one of those come out.
Josh Hall:I was really.
Whitney Bateson:I'm like I got to listen to that one. Yeah, so those would be good ones.
Josh Hall:Just yeah, just do a quick scan and see, uh, you know what helps you where you're at. But yeah, uh, and then what I'd say is just go to webdesignersprocom If you just want to see some of these things you know in the real world. Ironically, that is a very, not brief page, but my homepage on Women's Art Pro is a long page, but it is. It is converting, so it's working, but I do plan to make it a little more brief here moving forward. So, just like all web designers, I already hate my website after it's live. You know you love it and two months later you're like how am I getting any clients?
Whitney Bateson:This is so bad. It's so bad. We're just, we are our own worst critics. You know, like once we see something we can't unsee it, and you know. But yeah, so at least I mean I guess I feel like that is solace, maybe for everyone listening to like web designers hate their own websites.
Josh Hall:Yes, yeah, you're not alone, cause I know, I know clients, you know you go live with the site. You're all excited and three months later like maybe we should change it. But, especially when it works, don't change it, like let it go I remind myself. I'm like you know what pro is growing fine, it's working, so I don't need to focus on other things.
Whitney Bateson:Yeah, you know, I think that's the other thing too, just like there's so many things that we can be focusing on. So it's like is this because you want to do it or because you need to do it? Like, if it's just you having some feelings, you need to just work on those, journal about it and then move on and go. You know, go build your email list, go pitch to podcasts, like do other things that are going to be, you know, more productive than fiddling with things.
Josh Hall:Yes, oh, hear, hear.
Whitney Bateson:All right, well, I will let you go. Thank you so much, josh, for coming on the podcast and for sharing all of this with us.
Josh Hall:Thanks for having me. This was a blast. Thanks, Whitney. All right, so I hope you enjoyed that one. Again, big thanks to Whitney for allowing me to repurpose our interview for the Web Design Business Podcast. Here Again, you can check her podcast out. It's called the Growth Show with Whitney Bateson. You can go to WhitneyBatesoncom for all of her resources and links and the show notes for this particular episode and all the links and resources we've talked about will be over at joshhallco, slash 396. So zip over there. You can also leave us a comment.
Josh Hall:I read every single comment that comes in for the podcast, so leave us a comment if you would like to share any of your thoughts. Concerns questions or excitement preferably excitement. So, my friend, I hope you enjoyed this one. Cheers to helping you and your clients' websites convert better in 2025 and beyond. I hope to see you in Web Designer Pro. The last couple episodes have featured members from the community, so if you guys are on the fence, now is an amazing time to join us, because we got a lot of awesome things cooking and it would be great to have you a part of this incredible community. Rising tide the rising tide lifts all boats, as it was once said, probably by Abraham Lincoln, so I hope to see you in there in our community web designer. Pro Cheers friend and stay subscribed because we've got some good podcast episodes ahead.
