427 - Claude Design & ChatGPT Images...are designers cooked? with Jacob Cass

Jacob Cass recently had a post on LinkedIn go semi-viral, all about whether or not designers are cooked with the recent release or Claude Design and Chat GPT Images.

I think it went viral because many designers are worried and scared. But I also think it went viral because many designers are not worried or scared.

Jacob took some time with me to dig into both of these mindsets and how designers (in brand, graphic and web) can thrive in today’s age of inevitable design/AI integration.

Head to the show notes to get all links and resources we mentioned, along with a full transcription of this episode at joshhall.co/427

P.S. if you want to stay on the leading edge of what’s going on in design, be sure to get your early access ticket to Jacob’s 2026 Brand Builder Summit happening in September!

Transcript

Are Designers Cooked By AI

unknown 0:02

Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast with your host Jacob. Helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you live.

Josh Hall 0:14

Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast. That special intro is exclusively for our guest in this one. We're headed down under again to talk with my friend Jacob Cass about his recent semi-viral LinkedIn post about designers and whether or not they are cooked in light of the recent Claw Design and Chat GPT Images 2.0 releases. He had such a good post. I'm not going to read the whole thing here. It will be linked in the show notes for this, but the gist of it is whether or not these graphic and image generation tools have completely wiped out the need for graphic designers. And I'm just going to read a very small piece of this. So please check the links below at the show notes for this episode to get the whole deal because it's a really important piece. If you're on LinkedIn, I'd recommend bookmarking it and maybe sharing it with clients potentially. But Jacob says this clients don't just need graphics, they need taste, judgment, and someone who actually builds a brand and doesn't just decorate one. They need somebody who can spot what fits, what feels off, what aligns, what distracts, what earns trust, and what actually might be damaging the brand. Yes, AI can generate visuals, it can speed up prototyping, it can make average work look polished. And yes, it has already raised the floor, but what it cannot do is own the brand and carry the brand's representation. It cannot sit in the messy middle in between business goals, customer perception, creative direction, and market reality. That is the opportunity for designers. That was just a small piece from Jacob's brilliant post on LinkedIn about this. Again, this will all be linked to the show notes. Jacob Cass was just on the podcast recently, and I wanted to have him back to dive into this. This is applicable to both brand, graphic, and web designers alike. And we're going to talk about this later on, but make sure we'll have all the links to his websites mentioned. But make sure you grab your free ticket to the 2026 Brand Builder Summit, which is happening later this year in September. But promotion's going to be going out for that soon. And you can actually lock in your early access ticket. Again, brandbuildersummit.com is where to go for that one. And without further ado, let's dive in to this idea if web designers, graphic designers, and brand designers are cooked in the age of AI design. Here is Jacob.

Jacob Cass 3:03

Thank you, mate.

Josh Hall 3:15

So let's talk about real quick what for those who are not privy to this, whether they're in graphic design, branding, or web design, what what dropped recently? Like pretend like I don't know anything that's going on, which is fair to say. Also, tell me about cloud design and ChatGPT images. What's going on right now in the design world and AI?

Jacob Cass 3:34

Yes. Well, Josh, there's new tools dropping like every day, and there's always a new release, and it's hard to keep up, to be honest. But there's some that have been notably big leaps, and often that um gets the attention of all the hype bros, like designers are cooked, and it like it gets the attention, but it's not necessarily always factual. And the post that I you reference in it kind of unlocks all of that, like some different alternatives. But before we get into that, what is claw design? What is ChatGPT Images 2.0? What's Nano Banana? There's a few different tools. Um, Google Stitch has also come out. So these are really for me, I see them as like rapid prototyping tools, but that's just what they are now. But what they can do is generate uh websites and images, even full brand identities, logos, websites uh with a short prompt. And it is it's crazy what can be output with just a few prompts. There are there's um they're not too original at the moment, but for prototyping and getting things off the ground without a developer or a designer, it's mind-blowing. So that's why you know designers are they feel the pressure. And I just wanted to share some uh get different perspectives on how we can approach and evolve in these changes.

Josh Hall 5:01

What are a few of those different perspectives? Because it seems like you're is it fair to say you're kind of in the middle as far as being an AI optimist, but also being an AI late adopter, a realist? Where do you fall? Where I guess where do you fall with AI right now as a designer?

Jacob Cass 5:18

I feel AI is such a general term, and I think we have to unpack that a bit because at its core AI is a software, and that's how you can break it down. You can say it's a tool, but some people are talking about generative AI, some people are talking about such something larger. But truthfully, we've all been using AI for many years and behind the scenes. But it's just in recent years that it's come to light, and people are using it, it's hands-on. ChatGTBT really accelerated that. So it's it's important to have that nuance. I use it every day in programs like Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator, the other AI, and that's integrated into the software, like, for example, generative fill or some of the you know the features inside of that. Then on the other hand, you have ChatGPT, which is like a LLM large language model, and that can generate text and even graphs and everything now. And that brings me to ChatGPT images 2, which is the new improved model for their image generation engine. And it is a big leap, and now people can generate full identities, websites, um, uh like with a prompt. So that's that's the I guess the lowdown of that. How I use it is I use it as a rapid prototyping tool. So I can collaborate with the tool to come up with new ideas, to get feedback on what I'm creating. And I think the nuance there is that if you're good at what you do, that feedback is going to be super valuable because you have taste and judgment to understand what is uh perhaps better than some of the other slop it comes out with. I think when you don't have training in a particular area and you rely on AI for some of these things, it that's when you don't have the taste or judgment and you're just taking it for what it is. And that's the messy middle that's gonna be challenging because what's for a lot of clients or people, that's gonna be good enough. And that's the challenge, is like we're gonna get what's already happening, but a lot of that work is gonna be eroding, and that is what has kind of like been the the bridge between some of our bigger projects, like a lot of freelancers and web designers that they're smaller, the smaller projects. Anyway, yabbering on. That was like Yeah, we'll move on.

Josh Hall 7:42

So that's a good it's a good foundation and context for like a little bit about where AI is and how you're using it. And case in point, what you just said, that that that example was literally what I did this week. You saw my post about circle getting close to the to the to the milli mark with my community. And that thumbnail that I did for YouTube, I started with Claude. I was kind of stuck on it and I was like, I have an idea, two different sides, you know, left is like what wasn't working as well, the new model. Give me like a couple different ideas for that. And I it was really like, yeah, it was definitely not perfect by any means. I wouldn't have used it like that, but man, it gave me a good starting point. So to your point, but like you just said, I'm I'm saying this because it was a real live example of what you just said. I have a design eye that's been trained over years to where I felt like, okay, this looks looks pretty slick. Um, but yeah, folks who don't have a design eye, I feel like it's kind of like people creating their own websites with Wix, you know, 15 years ago. It just it just ends up being absolute jank. So Google, is it Google Images or uh ChatGPT Images 2? Is that right? That's the newest. So what's the difference between that and cloud design? Because I know there's such uh migration from folks moving to ChatGPT over to Cloud, myself included. So what's what do you know about cloud design and how that compares?

Jacob Cass 9:00

Yeah, so I haven't got a claude design subscription, so I'm still in ChatGPT camp, so I haven't personally used it. I've looked at videos and tutorials for it just to see what's possible. It does look similar to I guess Google Stitch, which is another, I guess, prototyping tool. Um, but what it can create is is pretty pretty similar. So uh I can't give you first-hand experience on claude design.

Josh Hall 9:23

But why were the what why were these two the ones that prompted your posts, pun intended? Was it was it just that you could give it a simple prompt and you it's it just does so much more with a prompt now? You know what I mean? Like what's so big about these two?

Prototyping Fast Without Losing Taste

Jacob Cass 9:39

Well, it it originally started with Google Stitch when that uh the new version came out, and I was like blown away with some of the features that I hadn't seen before in other platforms. Like one of them was like you right-click on, let's say you're creating a website for a summit, and you you have on the home page your nav bar it says home speakers about and contact page. You could right-click on the the word schedule and create imagine new page, and it would actually create the whole page by like a right-click. So you could create a whole website just by doing right-click, right-click, right-click, and imagining the page based on the style guide that you've created in the beginning. So those sorts of things, like when you see it for the first time, kind of like when you see ChatGPT for the first time, it's like, what is this magic? And it's just then it just falls into like as normal. So it's like these that's just how things go. It's just this amazing inventions and ideas, and then it just becomes you know, like normal. And I guess what prompted the post is all the hype and the tension in the air. And I I run a community like yourself, Josh, and the the feeling there, and when people leave, I I always ask like uh offboarding, like, what why are you leaving? And the the truth is that some of them have been in business for 30 plus years, and now they're having to go uh back into the corporate and leave. Because of that, the the jobs are evaporating, and that's the reality, and there's tension in the air, especially when new tools come out and all the hypers you know, talk it up. But it it could be that, it can be many other things, the economy, and just all sorts of things that we're yeah, I know it's like with the with the with the jobs leaving kind of thing.

Josh Hall 11:23

I do wonder like what's the percentage of all the variables, especially like is is like you know, claw design or chat GPT images, is that truly taking over completely a design role for a lot of corporations, or is it just people who are not using AI? It's like it's the it's an old quote now already, which is AI is not going to replace designers, designers using AI will replace designers. But it's so true. I feel like if you can speed up your workflow, and like in the case that I just did this week, if I can, you know, shorthand my time and and and just bust it out, but having the framework and knowledge that I have does make things way easier and way faster. So I don't know. What's your sense? Can you get a pulse on that? Like, is it truly like is AI truly taking designers' jobs in some way, or or is it just a different varies?

Jacob Cass 12:12

What was your question? What's my sins?

Josh Hall 12:14

What's that?

Jacob Cass 12:16

What was your question? What's your sins?

Josh Hall 12:18

Uh oh, sense. What's your what's your sense on that? Like with the people that are offboarding, is that is like, do you do you truly feel like some of these tools are completely replacing web designers or at least in a junior level? Or we can talk about your sins too. Whatever you want to, Jacob, but that's kind of what I'm curious about.

Jacob Cass 12:34

I I've never heard that phrase. That's why I was like, what's that must be an American thing?

Josh Hall 12:37

I'll come down there to Australia. I'll load you guys up with completely useless slang.

Jacob Cass 12:42

I'm sure we can battle you on that too. Got a fair share of slang here. Okay, and what's my what's my take on what's my take on people leaving?

Josh Hall 12:51

Yeah, I'm just kind of curious. I for the people who s who who say that, and you know, obviously I I I trust you with your gut feeling, but I'm just wondering, is it is it overhyped and out of proportion, like blown out of proportion yet, that truly like these tools are taking full jobs, or is it just taking parts of?

Jacob Cass 13:11

I don't think it is parts of, and that's the bottom rung. So people that were purely pixel oriented and not really focused on the larger picture, a lot of that the bottom rung of those jobs have are gone already. Like tools like Canva have commoditized that sort of design. But when it comes to strategic thinking, and this is kind of the crux of my post, was to really lean into being a creative strategic partner with your client. And that's where we must go as creators. We have to go upstream, we have to go up the ladder to really reposition how we we work. So there's also a feeling going around that the title graphic design is doesn't really work anymore because these days we do so much more than graphic design. We're doing animation and motion and content creation and um like strategy and brand building. Like it to bucket you into one title, it's it's it can be being as much as I as a designer. I hate to say that, but I truly believe that's what we're where we have to go. We have to go upstream. And you know, that is as a strategic partner or a creative partner. Um, and you can break that down with many ways. Like I always struggle with titles as well, like brand design or strategy strategies of community. We talked about that last time you were on. Yeah, remember last time you were on, we talked about yeah, but I do think graphic designer it's it's a hard one because um when people think like most clients, non-designers in this world, and they think of graphic design, they they have this certain image in their head of what that does.

Josh Hall 14:52

Gotcha. Now, because side note, the sentiment is the same for web designers with needing to be more than just a pure web designer typically. It's some mix of strategy, copy, messaging, UX, design, all these other elements, SEO. Um, but I I don't know. I still a lot of I guess I'm I'm in the web design side of things, so it's a little bit different than purely graphic design, but I know a lot of web designers who are just so damn good at web design that they're killing it still. So I wonder if the AI side of things has come for the graphic side of things versus web as much. Hey Jacob, I'm having a hard time hearing you by the way, real quick. I don't know. I don't know if that was there. We go. Cool. Yeah, just wanted to make sure I wasn't sure if it was recording or not.

Which Design Jobs Get Eroded

Jacob Cass 15:45

But yeah, I've worked in web for for many years, and we also have many web designers in our community, and it is across the board. I I feel that um it's graphic design is branding, identity, it's websites. It's if you're really good at your job, then you you probably have already been positioned in a way that you are more of a strategic partner. Like those tools that you mentioned, I think really great web designers do all those things, like storytelling and strategy, high making high conversion websites and with beautiful design uh across all the devices. Like that is a it's a big skill set, right? And but if you can do all those things and you can you know tell your story in a way that connects with your audience, you know who you're serving, you know, the basics um that so many people get wrong, then those people are still going to excel. I I don't think that they're ever in question. It's those that were kind of focused on the the the I hate saying the bottom rung, but that's that's just like those smaller, yeah, like the smaller jobs. And they they um yeah, you can do them so quickly now. Like I'm I'm I'm with clients on WhatsApp and they're like, oh, what's this gonna look like? Can we put our logo on this thing? And like I just put into ChatGPT images too, get the mock up, send it back, and that would have taken me like half an hour to an hour before. And now I'm doing it like with 30 seconds. So it's like it's crazy how efficient it can make us, but we can't get into this productivity trap, right? So we have more time and we spill that time and we're just doing more and more and more. So we've got this time back, but then we're still uh using it all up. So it's be you have to be careful of like where you're using that time and having strict boundaries, I guess, when it comes to your lifestyle, family, and all of that. But that's a whole other discussion.

Josh Hall 17:33

For your clients who are are talking with you in real time sometimes and everything, if you send something back in a couple minutes, are they like, holy crap, you are a genius. How's that you know changed now? You know what I mean? Like, are there are they like, how did you do that? I don't care, I'm just amazed.

Jacob Cass 17:50

Well, I think some you have to be mindful of who the client is. So these are some like younger clients and they're very in with AI or they're collaborating with AI already, and they're you know sending things in AI with AI. So it's like you you know your client. If you had someone perhaps a little bit older or against AI, like I wouldn't. And I'd be having a more formal presentation. But we have a relationship now where we've gone through the strategic process and we're kind of more in the growth phase and the executional phase. So in the beginning, I wouldn't I wouldn't do that.

Josh Hall 18:24

So I want to talk about moving upstream and what that kind of means to you from a practical sense, especially in the design world. But I am curious with this idea of like the low junior style, low-runk jobs being largely eaten up step by step, day by day by AI, where does that leave beginners? Because I think one thing for people getting into web or graphic design is like it, I would imagine as a beginner today, you and I have both been in this industry for a long time, so it's different for us. But somebody getting into design today, I would imagine they're probably starting AI first because what do you, you know what I mean? Like, where do they start?

Jacob Cass 19:01

Yeah. I've I've had this question before, and my my take on it or since is that right? You got it. Sounds great. My take on it. Yeah, my take on it is that like any skill, you have to know the principles. And if you're going to shortcut yourself by using AI or cheating in a test, for example, it's the same thing. You you have to learn the principles, you have to do the work to get up to you know, to master your craft. So if you're if you're taking those shortcuts, that's a detriment to you. So I really believe that you have to educate yourself and do those things. But now we have a tool that can help accelerate some of those tasks. And I think the people being educated in design now, they're gonna be incredibly fast and because they have these tools. But if you just rely on them, I don't think that's the way.

Josh Hall 19:57

No, here, here. That's a great point. I like the analogy of cheating on a test, especially if you're learning. Like if you're just vibe coding but you don't understand what's going on, that's that's it. That's that's the problem. It's it's similar. Yeah.

Jacob Cass 20:10

I when I vibe code, I look at what's going on. I'm like, this is why I'm not hand code.

Josh Hall 20:14

Right. Yeah. Even even me in the design world, I'm like, oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, I'm so glad I'm not hand coding CSS like I was 17 years ago. Um but the thing is, like, it does a lot of personally, my sense, my take on this is like a lot of these challenges are echoed from a decade ago when people were starting to DIY their own websites. It's a similar thing to me. You know, with like how AI, like how people are using AI is how people were doing DIY builders a decade ago.

Jacob Cass 20:45

Yeah, well, they they still exist. They've just improved. Like, you know, Squarespace is a classic example, and they've got some really useful templates, not as much customization as what you could get in other platforms. Um I don't think we can go back as far as like GeoCities or something. Like, but uh the platforms are incredibly easy to use now and get started.

Josh Hall 21:07

So, what does when you talk about being a strategic partner and moving upstream? I think my mind goes to agency owner, digital marketer. But what's your take on what that means practically? What what what what buckets and what roles are in that?

Moving Upstream With Client Outcomes

Jacob Cass 21:23

Yeah, I I wouldn't say as far like you don't have to be like an agency owner or a studio owner to do that. But basically, it's really make it's there's two sides of the coin with the business, right? You have your brand and you have your business. So you have to kind of think think about them both versus just executing on tasks. So if you can advise someone how to grow their business and brand, that is what a strategic partner does. So you have to think about that. Like that's your mindset. It should be: I'm here to help grow their business. I'm not here just to do the logo or just Create the website. How can we actually get more sales? How can we get more awareness? You know, how can we grow their leads? Those sorts of decisions is really what we what we are doing, but we just have to change the language of about how we talk about it. So rather than talking about logo designs, it can be talking about the outcomes that brings. So that shift is really what we need to lean into versus just giving deliverables. And that's what I mean when I say move upstream. It's a little bit of align them yourself with the partner and delivering them outcomes instead of just of them.

Josh Hall 22:45

What about the um constraints on how far you'll go? Because that could lead, I mean, clients could suddenly view you as a digital marketer and a copywriter and a business coach. Like, how do you put a constraint on that?

Jacob Cass 23:02

You know what I mean? Is that a bad thing?

Josh Hall 23:04

Well, I mean, I guess for somebody who may not want, I wouldn't want to do digital market. Like, I would I I and I see this a lot in web design. I think it's more common in web design because you build a website, they're like, oh, can you run my social media too? And do all my email. And you're like, you know, I that may not be something I do. You know what I mean?

Jacob Cass 23:20

Like, how do you So the nuance here is that you don't have to be the executor. So you can be the advisor. So you can if you have that as a service, sure, then it's a natural lead-in. But it's an opportunity where you can collaborate with other designers or copywriters or web designers, whatever it may be, to bring into your the engagement. So it's not, you have to kind of get out of that mindset of like, I only I can do the thing. You can advise them that, you know, for example, I do pretty much everything souped in that strategy to design to websites, to the growth side of things. I don't get into cut content marketing and creating graphics and things. However, that will be part of the growth plan, and they will have the messaging, the identity, and the pathway on how to grow their business, and I can advise them to go to other partners for that sort of thing.

Josh Hall 24:15

Gotcha.

Jacob Cass 24:16

So that's yeah.

Josh Hall 24:18

That's a great point because, like, yeah, I think immediately when somebody thinks about being a strategic growth partner of some capacity, they're like, I'm not I'm gonna do everything. But yeah, you're totally right. Like, you can hire that out or referral partners. Like, that's been such a win for so many members of my community. It's what I did. I just partnered up with people who do certain things, but I would be the kind of mediator and the connector. And clients really value that. And quite frankly, that's like super valuable to be compensated for to have connections in a network that your clients get access to.

Jacob Cass 24:47

100%. So exactly. And if you work out a referral fee, if it's a um uh recurring thing, you can even increase that referral fee. So yeah, if you're getting a lot of that sort of work, then that's an awesome opportunity to get some recurring revenue and passive income.

Josh Hall 25:06

You mentioned in your post, I've been looking back through it here as we're as we're talking about this. What does what does like being human? You mentioned like the word human a couple times in that post. What does that mean nowadays? I know everyone like like we talked about that's a big question. You know what I mean? Like AI just it does just commoditize things, it goes right to the middle. But what yeah, what is human, what is like how do you design human in 2026? I guess that's the question.

Jacob Cass 25:35

I guess we can contrast that with AI and what makes us human. And there's so many uh smarter people that can break this down than me, but for for me, it's like we have we have emotions, we have backstory, we have culture, we have uh the we have taste and judgment uh based on our experiences. And we because of that, things are much more original because of all of those things mixed together. So we can bring our taste and judgment to a project, and that is what is what makes it human. On the contrary, AI is built on a database of millions of billions of you know sources, and it does create combinations of new things, but not necessarily uh totally original new ideas, and that's where the human element can really uh I guess thrive, and that's what it means to be human. And that's what the poster was. It said um, you know, graphic designers are cooked, and cooked is crossed out, it has human they're written in like a hand uh hand-lettered uh painted script to feel like a little bit more human. And that's like I guess the contrary idea of like rebelling against this idea of graphic designers being cooked, and that we need to lean into the human aspect and bring bring our taste, bring our judgment to to you know, just to bring original ideas into the world and not just get into this AI track.

How Beginners Learn Without Shortcuts

Josh Hall 26:57

Well, I'll throw an extra ingredient into the uh human design recipe here, which is some semblance of an experience. And anything you can do in person for sure, awesome with your clients. But I found a lot of designers in in web design right now are who are having a lot of success, have a process that's tied to some sort of experience. Like they make it, especially for those who have like a product ties timely offer who might have a VIP day of some sort, or maybe it's a week or two. And there's it really it feels like it doesn't feel like they're just telling a designer what to do and where to push the pixels and what an illicit deliverables. It's like the designer is guiding them, and there's yeah, a lot of experiential components in there. And experiences online I've found could be like surprises. Maybe they send a gift card when they start a project that's like, oh, thank you. We're getting started on your project. Even the experience of like better communication in some ways, I think could be an experience of a project from start to finish, like really relying on those human touches throughout projects. I've I mean, it's what I did in a very rudimentary way years ago. And I think it's even more important today is to like put some sort of experience in your in your projects.

unknown 28:14

Yeah.

Jacob Cass 28:16

Yes, uh, I agree with that. And I'm just thinking like some of those things can actually be automated as well. But on the contrary, you could also take it up a notch and not do it automate automated. So, for example, a gift you could have it when you have someone sign on, it sends them the gift card from online. But the harder, more expensive way would be to handwrite something, package it up or all by hand and have a handwritten note. And you know, it's it just elevates that experience. So depending on you know the client and your the budget and all of that, you can take that into account. But the things that are harder, less people do, and that's why they stand out. So, for example, when I launched our community, the first 100 founding members, everyone got like a printed coin that had like a founding member on it. We set send it out from Australia with like stickers and all that sort of stuff, a certificate. And that was incredibly hard, difficult from Australia, especially because of customs postage times and costs and everything. But it a token like that is much more meaningful than something digital, and that experience and it sits on people's desks. So it's just like physical thing that's top of mind. It means more. It's just a coin, but it the the meaning behind it is much more important. So I think those elements uh of the human side of things, like you mentioned.

Josh Hall 29:35

So really well, and you're a living proof and example of that. I know you're not blowing smoke. Like when I spoke at the um the summit, the the brand summit last year, the brand, the brand, what was it called? Brand builders summit, right?

Jacob Cass 29:48

Yeah, brand builders.

Josh Hall 29:51

After you launched the community. Um, but when you did the summit, like you you sent, I mean, it was it was definitely an experience from a sense of like all the work that you put into it and guided us through as speakers. And then yeah, you sent candles that were like personalized to us. Like I had my little Josh Space helmet candle, and I thought about you every day for like a couple months when I was burning that candle in my office. So, like that, but those things really do go a long way. Um, yeah. So I love that we're hitting on like leaning into yeah, like what would a human do? Like, you know, I don't maybe eventually there's gonna be an agent that will mail stuff out, but I don't know how practically that's gonna work. Uh so I would do like everything.

Jacob Cass 30:28

Yeah, there is a there is a middle ground here, Josh. So because a lot of my speakers were not in Australia and internationally, you can work with vendors locally to each country. So, for example, those candles for folks in the UK, I would find a supplier in the UK, like on Etsy, for example, and work with them to you know, do a batch of them and then send it out locally. So you can avoid postage and everything, but you just don't have that handwritten from you approach. But they did have do some handwriting.

Josh Hall 30:56

Well, this year there can be a so this year I think everybody in the UK should get a tea cup, everybody in the States gets like a custom beer can, and then uh what would you guys get in Australia? Like a surfboard or something? I don't know, you know, we could we can get really Yeah.

Jacob Cass 31:12

Well, I tried I tried to match it to the theme. So last year was like um, you know, become a star, and the candle was like, uh, you're a star, this is star light, and that was kind of the idea. And uh this year it's the theme is ascent to mastery, and it's kind of like a summit and a climbing to mastery. So there's some gift in there, I'm sure, that we can work out like something to do with climbing, mastery, uh, ascent, maybe even I don't know. You have to get into it.

Josh Hall 31:40

I'm just going to some sort of like, you know, uh I don't know, like a master, like a guru of some sort of like karaoke taekwondo uh master. I don't know, something like that. But we'll see. I'm sure it'll hit me like at three o'clock this morning on some of the time.

Jacob Cass 31:54

Yeah, the brand in back.

Human Touches Clients Actually Feel

Josh Hall 31:56

Yeah, ooh, that could be cool. All right. Oh, well, now we're cooking. But this is like it's it's just what's cool. Like, you know, an AI prompt, depending on how complicated it is, it's it's not gonna give you like the most original ideas right now. And that that's the problem. I mean, I'm I'm continually, I wouldn't say blown away, but super impressed with some of the stuff it does. But like, yeah, I just I think it's so important just lean into like the most human, authentic. It sounds, you know, those are the that's the lingo now, but it is so important. And I think in some cases, there are some things that are hard to do. There's also things that are really easy to do, but I've found the things that are easy to do are easy not to do. And like follow, like actually, um uh we talked about Alexia, who's on uh design retainer with me right now, member of Web Center Pro. She told me recently, she's like, I've joined a couple other communities and no one has sent me a personal video welcoming me. And that's something I had done since day one of Web Center Pro. And it is easy/slash hard to do. It's easy to do because it only takes a couple of minutes. It's hard to do because I need to make time for it and just do it. Um, but that goes a long way. So that's just another example of the experience. Yeah.

Jacob Cass 33:09

Yeah, I I do that too. I didn't in the beginning because it was it was like coming in batches and we just did welcome parties. But I think that human touch is really important and it shows that you acknowledge the human behind it. And yeah, it does go a long way. I think video in in general is such an undertapped resource for that connection side of things. And I do it with my clients, do with new members, and yeah, just adds that extra layer.

Josh Hall 33:33

So let's round this home here. I think we're gonna talk shaw privately about community stuff here. Uh I gotta before you do, Josh.

Jacob Cass 33:40

I wanted to share uh a few examples of um you said doing uh hard things, right? And brands these days, they're they're making an extra effort to show things were human-made. So the pendulum is uh swinging towards the other side. So some examples you may have seen Apple's um uh logo for I think it was Apple TV, where they handmade everything with glass. Uh they could have done that digitally in half the time, and it would have probably looked very similar, but they made a process um like a fact, sorry, they made a point of showing how that was made. And even like car videos, there's a few car videos now that aren't showing the car in motion, they're showing the making of the car ad videos to show that it was all made by humans. So this there's definitely this uh shift towards like this was human-made, this is not AI generated, and now even like places like um they're trying to get a symbol to show that it was not AI made. And there's yeah, definitely a shift in that. That's great.

Josh Hall 34:47

I was gonna ask, yeah, I was gonna kind of bring this home with like, yeah, what designers can do, especially right now, that are more like quick wins in this kind of evolving and changing market. That's a great point. Yeah, that how it's made. I mean, our mutual friend James Barnard, I think that's one thing that separated him from so many designers is he's so good at sharing how like his process and how he does what he does, and so many behind-the-scenes stuff with his socials.

unknown 35:15

Yep.

Jacob Cass 35:16

Exactly. Yeah, behind the scenes is exactly right in your process to show the human making it. And that gives it, like I guess, more meaning these days when things can be generated so quickly and on the fly. It's like it shows the craft behind it and the the decision making and the taste that you're bringing to the project.

Josh Hall 35:35

I think too, it would validate a uh bigger investment for like branding and strategy and design if a client realizes, like, okay, even if they don't watch the video, they see uh an outline of how much goes into a brand strategy session or or you know, brand guides, logo design, all these things that some clients may think, oh, just prompt you know, chat GPT images now. But it's like, no, not yeah. When you when you are a craftsman, it is there's so much work that AI is not either doing or clients are not understanding how much goes into that. Even if you see cloud working, it's hard to understand everything that's in it.

Jacob Cass 36:17

Yeah, 100%. It can tell you what it's doing, but it doesn't mean anything. You don't understand it. And I think that's the point here is if you're taking shortcuts and you don't understand what is happening or why it's happening, how can you make the right decisions and how can you grow your craft? Because you just can't because it's you're just taking it from face value. You don't understand, you don't truly understand.

Josh Hall 36:41

Heck yeah, dude. Well, Jacob, loved it. Great chat with you. Love getting right down to business here today. Um, man, where should people go? You got another summit coming up.

Jacob Cass 36:51

Yeah, yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Yes, um, I I think it's very topical uh discussion. I'm glad we could unpack this a little bit. It helped me like think some things through as well. And as I was doing that post, it really did make me think like, you know, what's AI, what's human? Like, how can we stand out and how can we like differentiate ourselves? And I have been leaning into this idea of like becoming a strategic partner for a year, uh for a couple of years, sorry. And yeah, I just really think that's where things are going. People are building brands, and that's the idea behind the brand builder summit and brand builds alliance, is like we need to help build brands and not just be um, you know, this.

Josh Hall 37:28

Yeah, well, I even side note, um, I had uh one of my first clients ever on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, and that was episode 424, I think. But uh I'll link it below. But he said, because I had just started designing when he hired me, and I asked him, like, why did you hire me? I was brand spanking new. And he said, You made us feel like you were your only, we were your only client. And he felt like I had some ownership in their business, and that kind of is a testament to this idea of like getting back to that, especially if you're not doing things at scale.

Show The Craft Then Close Strong

Jacob Cass 37:59

I love that, Josh. Um, sorry, I know you're wrapped up. Another story that came to mind. I had another story. Um, someone posted in the community recently, like, I'm looking for a new role, like, how can I stand out? And it made me think when I haven't gone for job interviews for years, but I've definitely hired certain contractors. And I was looking for a social media uh content person for my summit last year, and I put out the call and like got dozens of applications and messages, and like they all started to blend in. And then there was one member actually inside the community that um they sent me a video, they'd put through like a whole like board, a whole timeline, and actually did work beforehand to show that they understood the project and they had initiative to show that they were interested, they wanted to do it, they were trying to understand it. And that is what stood out to me is people putting in initiative and work beforehand to prove that they excuse me, they are capable for the job and they got the job.

Josh Hall 39:02

That's awesome, dude. That is such a good point, man. Well, it's very cool. I think in the age of AI and all these changes, we're getting back to like grassroots stuff that works 20 years ago, 15, 10 years ago. They're working even better today. Um, but really enjoyed the post. That post is a week old, and you've got it like 622 engagements, 149 comments, 58 reposts. That's like that's like that's viral on LinkedIn, baby. That's freaking awesome.

Jacob Cass 39:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it is for me anyway.

Josh Hall 39:32

So, so website, where should people go to connect with and then um do you have anything on the next summit, or should people just look out for the next brand builder summit?

Jacob Cass 39:40

Yes, uh, yes. So, brand builders summit is gonna happen September 8th to 11 this year. And I'd love for you to come along. It is a free four-day summit. There's gonna be 30 plus speakers focused on brand building. So, everything from design, web design, uh strategy, business growth. There's so much gonna be packed into this. It's super value-packed. So, check out that. You can join the wait list now. Uh, brand builders Alliance is the community side of things. So, this is for brand builders. We help uh help you master branding and build a thriving creative business. And that's what we focus on. And if you want to connect with me, you can go to justccreative.com. We do have a huge bundle of free resources there called the Branding Briefcase, which is definitely worth getting on your radar, including Just Sans, which is our free typeface uh that's super popular. And on the socials, just creative is my my handle. So love to connect with you. I love talking shop, everything brand, web, design, marketing, business. That's my jam. So thank you, Josh. Thank you, man.

Josh Hall 40:42

We'll have it all linked in the show notes. Appreciate your time. We'll talk some community shop here. So till the next one, Jacob, appreciate it, man. All right, there we have it. I hope you feel at ease. Always good catching up with Jacob. I hope you enjoyed this one. Again, we did talk about quite a few links, including all of his channels and his website. So go to joshhall.co slash 427, which is where this one will be. And again, don't forget to sign up for his free Brand Builder Summit, which is going down in September this year. Brandbuildersummit.com is where to go to nab up your free early access ticket. And again, highly recommend checking out Jacob's LinkedIn post. Go give it another like, continue to help that thing move across the internet as it already has done over the past couple weeks. And I really hope this one helps. Joshhall.co slash 427 is where to go after this. Thanks for listening, my friend. I hope this helps. Hope it helps give you some confidence. And I will see you on the next episode. Make sure you're subscribed on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or does anyone listen elsewhere? Wherever you listen, no judgment, make sure to stay subscribed because we've got some killer interviews ahead. Big thanks to Jacob for coming on in short notice. And I will see you, my friend, on the next one.