Join Andreas Senie, Saul Klein, and Professor Darren Hayes for this month's Roundtable as we discuss how to take advantage and understand business cycles and real estate cycles; expansion, prosperity, recession, and depression. to improve the way you do business.
This months RoundTable included:
Andreas Senie, Host, Founder CRECollaborative
Non Profit & For Profit Business Technology Transformation Champion, CRETech Thought Leader, Founder & Brokerage Owner
Saul Klein, Realtor Emeritus, Data Advocate & Futurist, Original Real Estate Internet Evangelist, Executive Editor Realty Times
Professor Darren Hayes, Professor Pace University
Foremost Forensic Cyber Security Expert
CEO Code Detectives
ABOUT THE ROUNDTABLE:
Your all-in-one comprehensive view of what's happening across the real estate industry -- straight from some of the industry's earliest technology adopters and foremost experts. Join us live at 6PM EST the 1st Thursday of each month, across all major social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts. This three part show consists of:
Part I : Introductions and what's new for each panelist and business sector
Part II : Sector Focus on the past month's biggest news and paradigm shifts
Part III: What does all this mean for real estate businesses, and what you can do for the next 30 days
Join us as we dive deep into Technology, Marketing, Capital, Construction & Cyber Security trends affecting your business.
#datadrivenbusiness #businessmanagement #commercialrealestate
[00:00:00] Andreas Senie: welcome back everyone to this month's real estate round table. I'm your host and Dre is sending joining us this month are Saul Klein and Darren Hayes talking all the big things that make the world move in real estate technology, cybersecurity and car washes. That's up to salt. This carwash, we're going to make this carwash famous for these shirts.
We're going to get it there truly. Um, so as, as the, the format of this show, hopefully everyone listening knows who we are at this point, but for the new listeners tuning in, let's just go around quickly. Introduce one another, introduce ourselves. And then, uh, from there, we'll go into the big business, the big things affecting business today from each of the places we see.
Saw as the, and go ahead. So I'll let you introduce yourself, given your, I can do it much better than I
[00:01:02] Saul Klien: can. Well, I'm just an old real estate broker. I've been involved in technology since the nineties and, um, and I own a carwash. And so I want to say that we can kind of track the economy to some degree based on how well the car wash debts and the seasonality of the carwash business, and it might affect other businesses.
So we were talking about this earlier that normally the summer and the spring time, really good time for the car wash winter, not so much in early January caramel. And, uh, so we just came off January, January was a slow month, December one. Slow, but not as slow as January and now the days are getting longer.
So we're looking for good things
[00:01:47] Andreas Senie: and cyclical business cycles, cycles of business. That's a great topic. We shouldn't touch on it onto the show. And of course, welcoming back when my good friend, Darren Hayes, professor Darren hand, he's one of the top 10 forensic, uh, computer scientists. And certainly the smartest guy.
I know if I'm in trouble, my cybersecurity nudes, uh, I code detectives, uh, Darren, just a quick intro. And once you do, and, uh,
[00:02:11] Darren: sure, sure. So I teach at pace university and I also have a consulting company code detectives, LLC. So I'm involved in all matters, cybersecurity as well as digital forensics. So great to be here.
[00:02:25] Andreas Senie: Love it, love it. Welcome back. And thank you to all our listeners for joining in. And my co-host here for, for taking the time to really give a holistic picture of what's happened. And how it affects our businesses. So saw you, you, you, you hit the nail on the head and where I'm sitting, uh, your car wash and the cyclical nature of it and how it can act as a barometer for the industry.
Is that, is that accurate?
[00:02:52] Saul Klien: Yeah. As a matter of fact, we probably could see some correlations, um, if we paid enough attention to it. So, but say make this really great point. People kind of lose sight of it. And that is the economy. There is a cycle, there's a business cycle and there's a real estate cycle.
And it has like those two phases, but I expansion prosperity recession. Depression was like curve, right? Expansion, prosperity, recession, depression, and repeats itself. And so I started cracking this like an 1850s or something and they attract like 37 turns in the business cycle since they started paying attention to this.
So we know that sometimes the economy is good and sometimes it's not so good. And there, uh, things that affect that one thing that we're concerned about right now is inflation, where we've got lots of money, but we don't have as much product and production as we need to have to support all that money.
And so prices go up. People don't understand that they think it's temporary. We can actually go back and look historically, or remember it's sick. And so there are things that we can recognize in past cycles that will help us, um, today in dealing with, uh, what a lot of people aren't expecting. And it could be a little tighter than, than a lot of people think it might be.
[00:04:05] Andreas Senie: Uh, absolutely. I mean, the it's the commuting costs to go from Connecticut to Manhattan has gone up 60%. That is 60% that's gas and tolls. And that is before and recently they're approving, um, uh, commuter tax commuter increase in the tolls for congestion, congestion increase. Meanwhile, the public, uh, public transit is at all times low all the time because nobody wants to be that close to one another.
So they're punishing all the people who have. With, with these exorbitant fees. Certainly I'm assuming for good reason that I don't quite understand because that's not my market real estate wise, but I'm assuming these taxes have places to go and things, infrastructure to support, uh, minimally the, all the camera systems here in New York to give you tickets on I'm in New York, I'm in New York now, uh, when you're, when you're driving around and that's, that's a hat tip over to Darren and this, the big brother community, uh, or the new way of policing.
But so tell me more about, you've been here. You've been a realtor for how many years. So
since the start, since the start of the.
[00:05:26] Saul Klien: Yeah, the internet started in 1969. The web happened about 19 93, 19 94. So definitely in the early years where I went to school, we actually had actually had something called the Princeton Dartmouth time-sharing computer system. This was in the late sixties where the colleges and universities were sharing, you know, computer services.
We had big terminals, big terminals, and we didn't have, um, monitors. You had yellow paper that rolled out, but you played games on them and everything. And that yellow paper would roll out. You'd read the results of, you know, lays shooting torpedoes or whatever you were doing and playing those games. But you know, you talk about this, this idea of the economy being flexible and it goes up and it goes down and, and, uh, it's important for people that are in the real estate and she pay attention to this because they're opportunities that kind of pop up.
And we've talked about this before, and that is. That, um, the federal government is there's going to be major changes to land use. And one of them you see every day, you might not really understand what it, what it's about, but we've been seeing it for years. And that is that, uh, that there's concern over the number of automobiles that are on the road.
And so for a number of reasons. And so one of the ways to cut down on the use of automobiles is just increase the price of fuel. In San Diego. We have our San Diego combined governments have now allocated $150 billion over 20 years to redo the, the transportation system in San Diego. And part of the way they want to do this is at a 6 cents a mile gasoline tax on top of, you know, like $5 a gallon.
And you say, what's the motivation? The motivation is don't want people to drive. And so now we've been building light Tran you know, light transit or light rail in San Diego. Now, since, since I was listing and selling real estate apartment buildings in the 1980s, and this was like a dream we're going to build this, this a light rail, it's going to connect all these pieces.
So they started to build it and they built it out. And for many years in clean today, nobody used it. And so they built out the system and now they're driving up. We think in some neighborhoods, we think, geez, the neighborhoods too crowded. They need to add another lane, but no, they don't add another lane.
They, they close the parking lane and they created by. So they actually take less, you know, in some major cities where they used to have parking requirements for buildings, they no longer have parking requirements for buildings. So you don't have, they don't want you to drive. They don't want you to own new cars.
So the things you mentioned about commuting, uh, you know, from Connecticut to New York, I can understand that this is by design in some cases, and the government uses its powers, either carrot or stick to get social results that it wants. It does this all the time. And one of the best examples is the tax structure.
You know, that they want people to invest in money. They give them tax benefits that they want us to, the government wants to support, uh, housing. It lets you write off the interest on your loan, but once you to build certain types of things, you get tax credits for. So the government uses it. If you don't pay your taxes, then you get fine.
So the government uses these tools to get this it's social media. And typically we think of taxes and social engineering, but now we're seeing with all of this funding coming down, I'm going to have to talk about inflation, but with all this funding company down, we're going to see that we get, uh, social issues are addressed and they're addressed sort of the financing that comes from the federal government.
[00:09:00] Andreas Senie: Well, it's, it's, it's a, it's a near and dear cause to everyone, right. Financing in and available funding availability and the cost of money. And if it's harder to get money, or there are more rebates in place to go green with your car. And we're on that in the minute Becca Carlson and Chris Abel are joining us.
Uh, there'll be just in a, just a moment. Hey guys. Welcome. Welcome. We're talking about the most exciting thing in business inflation for those collecting, but not for those of us spending more each day and how and how to solve point. Uh, finance is the number one tool for social change. Once you can borrow how you can borrow where your rebates are, but then I think the wonder w the number one tool to change anything in this world is technology.
Darren welcome. Could you guys just quickly intro over for our new list listeners, uh, joining us for the first time, and then I want to come right back to, to Saul's point on, uh, on this inflation cyclical, our cyclical business and our world, uh, is effective. Welcome, Chris and, and Becca is disabled. I can't hear a word in that case.
You cannot go first, Chris.
[00:10:21] Bekah Carlson: 'cause I can hear everybody. Hey, it's great to see everybody and, uh, really, really glad to be back. I was in the back room backstage, electronic backstage, listening to salt. Talk about this topic, and I really am excited to hear more about what you have to say solve, because I think you've got some great insight for where we're at right now and for where we get to go.
Right? Because we've got a whole future ahead of us.
[00:10:45] Saul Klien: Lots to do.
[00:10:49] Andreas Senie: And Chris, I'm assuming you can't hear us. So we're going to come back to you. Nope. So saw, uh, continue on. I'm going to, uh, bear with me as I chat him. Uh, there we go, Mr. Mendoza, thank you. Production master in the back, fixing things and getting things organized.
So, um, inflation and cyclical change departments in life. Yeah. So
[00:11:11] Saul Klien: we've covered a couple of points here. Why don't we talk about the cyclical nature of the economy? And it makes sense to kind of pay attention to that because ups and downs, there are opportunities, right? So the threats and opportunities, regardless of what's happening, so people should pay a little bit more attention to it, you know?
Um, so I've been around this long enough to have seen cycles complete themselves. And there is a certain similarity in the way these things repeat. And part of the issue is inflation. And we've been talking about that for a long time, and now you hear other people talking about it and it's a lot of this has to do, and people will have denied this, but it has to do with just too much money chasing too few goods.
And so one way or another, well we're having the availability of things. And that drives part of what drives price.
[00:11:59] Andreas Senie: So are you, are you saying we are about to shift in our cycle into a downward trend or in and out a little tighter?
[00:12:06] Saul Klien: Well, I think we're going to continue to see, see, we never got out of the, out of the last recession really.
And so with monetary supply. So I think we're going to continue to see interest rates go up some degree. Can't see them go up all the way, just because of the nature of the structure of government, right. Where it brings money in. And then it's got certain things that are discretionary, and then there's certain things that are not discretionary, right?
They can't mess with. So as these non-discretionary areas grow, the areas of discretionary spending will change. So now they're, they're spending a lot of money. A lot of money is being allocated. To what we'll refer to as infrastructure, without really looking at what we're talking about. But a lot of money is going to be spent in infrastructure.
That'll help cause that'll give people jobs, that'll get people back to work. Also, the intention is to change transportation in this country. And the department of transportation is going to spend a lot of money to do that. It's toward these trends that we talked about, greater walkability, less driving money that come into an area to give people increased densities, but money coming in from the federal federal government to be spent locally and things like a federal block grant financing and loans and rebates.
If you do the things like build a certain number of units for a certain income, or put a certain use on a property that will give you more, you know, you can do more. And so to drive. The social changes, which really are housing. We're looking at, um, higher densities. It's a real simple, because if you look at what drives prices up, because you build a house and the house actually wears out over time, but what happens about the price goes up?
So what's happening is the land values going up as the Heidi irregularly house values going down, you can take an old house in any city. That house is gone down in value dramatically, but the price has tripled well, what's gone up in value the land. And so we see this in a lot of, a lot of areas now where they're looking at increasing the land density, changing the zoning, and that's going to have a lot of effects on people one way or.
[00:14:14] Andreas Senie: So you're, you're already seeing these changes in California. The changes in density, the changes in zoning, Connecticut is not as, as flushed out, at least where I live. I'm not in Hartford, I'm not in a major city, so I'm not seeing the rapid change. I am seeing to your point, many developers getting great opportunities through housing opportunities, affordable housing opportunities.
And, uh, and, and back over in Chicago, is the Chicago making these changes? Are they in pace with California at all? For,
[00:14:46] Bekah Carlson: so I think Chicago, we're focusing a lot on adaptive for use. So we're repurposing a lot of our office buildings and I'm seeing that city suburbs everywhere we're working on. Uh, just making a lot of changes in our approach.
And, and a lot of that just has to do with pandemic vacancy and things like that. We're still struggling as a market with a lot of those factors. Um, so further into the city, there's been a constraint on supply for residential as is, you know, kind of traditional, it's hard to build in Chicago. It's hard to develop new properties.
And so we do see that that's going to take a lot of the absorption, but we also think it's going to take a long time for us. So we land values constantly increase, of course, because it's finite, right? Like there's only so much land, but we are also seeing owners struggle a little bit with how they're going to change their business model of how they're utilizing that land.
[00:15:53] Andreas Senie: Wow. Uh, I mean, certainly a lot of, even my clients tend to not even every broker I know has clients that are on the verge of struggling. Uh, even if they've held it together thus far, there's, there's concern out there, uh, and shifting use, uh, and most of my clients are new belt at this point, the shifting they can't shift use theirs to two years into the four-year exit or the three-year exit.
So everything is tight. Um, so really hoping for, for good things and we'll get through this and there'll be good things on the horizon. If not, I'll get new clients to buy out those properties, if you have any. Um, and my clients will understand and will sort of piece this together on the brokerage side.
And, uh, Darren, I mean, this. Extended pandemic and these adaptive reuse, I mean, shipping warehousing all have all gone up in many areas, looking at last years as specifically or a God, I'll tell you, 2020 is like a wash in my mind. Two years ago, Amazon's buying up everything for warehousing. Security's on the forefront of your buying up on premise service servers.
Then we went to the cloud and now it seems like from what I hear, that companies are focusing more on their security digitally, especially with data security laws coming into place worldwide in a much more aggressive fashion, Google analytics getting sued overseas and so forth. Are, are you seeing that or hearing that in academia that people are shrinking down?
[00:17:29] Darren: No, I, I think that, that this is definitely the era of, you know, Employee has the power these days, if they're, if they're in cyber security, especially because, you know, it just became so attractive for people to cash out their retirement funds and, and retire from cybersecurity. And so there's even more of a gap in terms of open vacancies for people in cyber security.
So it is going to cost more for companies to get that skill set in. And it's also just going to call. More for them to run cybersecurity. And we have seen a ramp up in attacks from countries like Russia. So, you know, with any potential kinetic war that, that may happen between Russia and Ukraine, we've seen huge amount, a big increase of, of cybersecurity attacks, but also the U S has in many agencies have been under attack by Russia.
And so we're not hearing a lot about that in the news because everybody's so focused on troops and land war, but, um, it's, it's a, it's a challenging time for, for employers, for companies who are trying to get that talent in the door. So, um, it, it's, what's interesting and about what salts said about money supply and that kind of thing.
I think that may be a slight increase in interest rates may benefit. Uh, I know that, you know, Europe, uh, The U S in terms of interest rates, they, they follow one another quite closely. And in Europe what's been happening is the banks have actually been trying to close down a lot of consumer accounts, and they've been telling customers, we don't want your money anymore.
And if you do keep your money with us, we're going to actually charge you money because of negative interest rates. And so this is kind of a lot different from what we're seeing over here. The banks tend to be a lot friendlier rather than send these threatening letters that, that people, people in Ireland and the UK and other Western European countries are getting at the moment.
Um, but also another thing that sold, mentioned that I thought was quite interesting was when he was talking about cars and, uh, taxes on vehicles and that kind of thing, a big move that's been happening, you know, I think that what happened in Glasgow in terms of climate change has, has really, um, Pushed a lot of scrutiny towards companies and what companies are doing in terms of sustainability and lowering their carbon footprint.
And now there's been, there's a lot of indices that are printing, you know, publishing information about how green companies are like, like for example, a report just came out about, uh, English, premier league teams and how they rank in terms of sustainability, whether those players, for those teams who are making millions are now flying on jets, or whether they're traveling in a bus that's operated on biofuels.
Uh, I've seen a lot of sports teams who have set up a lot mints growing vegetables actually at, at these arenas and that kind of thing, which is very, very kind of interesting. And I'm just kind of wondering if, if that kind of. May happen over here. I mean, California is usually the lead when it comes to sustainability and lowering carbon footprint, but it's kind of interesting what's happening over there and what I've been reading about.
[00:21:00] Andreas Senie: Well, I'll let Sally answer on sustainability in California as the forefront, because it's the forefront, but I mean, globally, the net zero carbon emission goals being put forward by all the major bodies is impressive, I think. But going back to and pinning on your earlier points, all about a gas tax, how long did it take California for that gas tax now for this change in the infrastructure,
[00:21:27] Saul Klien: a couple of things, number one, a year or two ago, I lose track of time.
We had a state law passed proposition. So in California we have, you know, uh, let it legislation by proposition. So if you can get people to vote for something, you don't need a legislature because you can get people to change. And so we had a proposition, but oftentimes what happens when they were propositions, they were in the opposite of what they mean.
And so this was one of those where if you voted, no, it meant yes. And so they put up dad's tax on the ballot and it was with increases every year without approval. And then they ran the ads and vote. No, actually meant. Yes. And so the proposition one, so the state put this now has this new tax per gallon on gasoline, but then locally in my market in San Diego county, you've got an entity that is, you got a lot of different governments.
Cause you always small towns. You've got San Diego is a big saver. It's got the Mesa and alcohol and, and Chula Vista and Carlsbad. Right? All of these in San Diego county, all of these things. So all of these combined governments have their own government. And that's called SANDAG and SANDAG wants to redo transportation in San Diego.
As I mentioned, $150 billion over 20 years. And part of this will be funded out of the proposal, which is a 6 cent, a mile gas tax on everybody, how they collected, how they enforce it, but 6 cents a mile. So imagine where you're coming in. And typically the people that are commuting from the furthest out are the people that don't make any money.
Right. So they got to commute all the way in, so they can be a waiter in a restaurant downtown. And then they got to know that what they're going to do is force people to use like. And that cleans the environment. It fixes it, right? So lower carbon footprint. Now this is another piece that people don't think about.
A friend of mine always says you can't trade what you can't great. And so you need to be able to grade real estate in a better way than you did. You need to be able to grade the loans and the loan portfolios on the high rise buildings in New York city, because they might be underwater in 30 years and I'm just making that up.
But the fact is they're going to be certain things. Climate wise, that nobody's factored into risk on loans on real estate, and that's going to happen at some point. And so you're going to start to see a lot of the wall street firms looking more at this idea of transparency and property and risk and climate change.
That's a bit going to be a big driver. Well,
[00:23:55] Andreas Senie: and speaking of transparency, I wanted to talk to you about Google getting certain marketing. So glad you made the call, a bed here and cookies going away. So, I guess less transparency for the people trying to sell this things, but to your points out. So if I did just to reframe what you said, here's the new tax.
It, her it's, it's affecting those who can't afford to pay it, but is it also pushing people to go greener faster with their cars?
[00:24:24] Saul Klien: That's part of the intent, that's part of the secondary providing public transportation as a viable alternative, right? I mean, that's really what you're saying is you got to get people to ride the subway and they don't do it
[00:24:39] Andreas Senie: here.
They drive car. They're not doing it now. They've raised the, the toll tag, the toll so much it's to start us to get everyone back, but that hasn't worked. So now you're telling me, I'm looking at a gas tax because it's being success. It's successful now.
[00:24:52] Saul Klien: And the purpose is to raise funds to change transportation.
And what we have to realize from real estate perspective is transportation is a big piece of value. And so if you travel, if you look at where the real estate values have progressed over many years, typically it follows the travel. I might've told you my grandfather who was a firefighter and a real estate broker said to me, years and years, just figuring out where the, where the roads are going to go and go way out by them, the real estate out there, and the roads they'll grow out to you.
And then you'll make a lot of money. And so that's what happens, right? They're going to build these road roads and devalue. They built the highway system that added to a lot of value across the country, changed people's habits. And now we realize that we can't sustain that anymore. We can't police it. We can't clean it up.
We can't fight the fires on it. So we have to bring people back in and that's the intention and the atmosphere's getting too dirty and there's no social equity and right. I mean, there's this whole big con and people can't afford to buy houses. And so we've got to cut the land value in half so we can build two houses there.
So this stuff's going on right now at the end of the.
[00:26:03] Darren: I was just going to add to that. You know, a lot of people think about, uh, greenhouse gases and carbon footprint in terms of energy, but like in the UK, for example, they're actually doing evaluations on clothing and how much carbon was used to produce this type of soccer Jersey, how much was used to produce this kind of material.
And so people are be, are being provided with more information about the carbon footprint with manufacturing, individual products and companies are actually changing how they produce products, but also it's going to impact real estate because people are thinking about when they're building new houses, how are they going to be more efficient with those houses in terms of not just everything from water usage to energy and recycling energy and that kind of thing.
[00:26:55] Andreas Senie: Well, really the. The ship is, is more than it's not cyclical in nature, but the generational shift, which we touched on two shows ago, I believe is here. So impact giving, uh, in capped income, uh, impact charity, social good, as, as all stated in marketing. I'm sure you're seeing this everywhere. Everybody is adjusting their brands to reach the millennial, the younger millennial markets, where, where they have money to spend and they can move in and lot.
And they're happy to ride the rail because they're not as worried about COVID right. And they're, and they're happy to do all these different things with these green green shirts, because they're looking for, I, I hope I don't control this way, but I think of it as the, now it has to be instant. It has to be now.
Whereas traditional companies, infrastructure plays things, real estate being one of them take time. They take vision, they take strategy to. As you said, go out to the farthest corner. Cause you know, the road we'll get there and buy it and hold it. These companies are now being very splashy about what they support and what they do.
Uh, actually curiously enough. And I don't know if anyone on the call is as heard more about them, but the, the green certifications they were giving the building owners. I wonder what large incentives are coming down the line in that area, carbon or for, or for improving the quality of air in your building.
You know, a COVID safe building because there are providers out there trying, but I don't want to dialogue the entire call here with that same amount of Baca. How are things of marketing? Get to jump into the fray and the foray here. We, uh, the George's late, but welcome. What's going on in the world of marketing.
[00:28:49] Bekah Carlson: So things are really busy in marketing right now. Oh, am I still, am I with you?
[00:28:56] Andreas Senie: Looks like the sunsetting there. All right.
[00:29:00] Bekah Carlson: So, um, oh, I think, uh, streetlight, I actually have a new client and spent some time exploring one of their buildings just a few minutes ago. Had to take this one from the car. Things have been very, very busy, and I'd like to say that it's because much happened, but I'm actually seeing a lot in the physical space.
Surprise. As people are positioning prep for sale, I've got, um, an, a client investor that raised their $20 million fund. And, you know, for, for zoom where they say for.
[00:29:42] Andreas Senie: For
[00:29:43] Saul Klien: people benchmark for
[00:29:45] Andreas Senie: meeting, sorry for zoom and four meetings, I'll get it done in 4, 0 4 meetings.
[00:29:52] Bekah Carlson: So the thing happening, so people who started things a few months ago, bringing them to fruition now, and there is a lot of money up there and a lot of money to a lot of different product type. So it's going to be really interesting how that strategies play into that.
And so that's a random call. Marketing is so hot right now to keep getting staff. So that's why I get called out holdings to go take pictures at four o'clock on a Thursday night in Chicago. Chicago is because it's, so it's kind of, it's an interesting, it's busy.
[00:30:35] Andreas Senie: But I, I agree there, it, it is busy. There's plenty going on.
Where, where if you can look and find it there's a lot going on, um, in all, in all of our respective spaces, uh, including data advocacy, including cybersecurity, but now, now two people here have now touched on a lack of help, a lack of good help that Darren said, because people are leaving because they retired.
Are, did marketers retire. Do they just say, screw it I'm done. Or, or people are just hard to find it. And marketing is that busy
[00:31:08] Bekah Carlson: marketing. People are just that hard to find that I think it's, you know, I think it's comparable to nursing in my opinion, because I'm always looking for more people and I'm willing to try, like we have, we have a number of people on our team.
Who've never even done marketing before, but they've been professionals and done a lot of different other kinds of roles. But I do see that getting new hires that have a marketing background is very challenging. So companies are really trying to retain them and, or they're so busy. They don't need, have time to look for something new.
[00:31:43] Andreas Senie: So the a four, I listen to podcasts, not just this one, but others all the time, but I have been inundated with, uh, indeed job. Every job's thing under the sun is coming over the airwaves in my car. Uh, and I just wonder if that's a marketing push or if there's just this disconnect in that we're in the economy right now between health or people that want to work or people that are afraid to work.
Cause cause the stimulus is over. So they've gotta be doing something. My landlords are getting paid those with tenants and those that aren't are victim, so have evicted and they're filling or repositioning.
[00:32:22] Saul Klien: So, so Becca is the, is the role of the, of the market are changing, right? Or the things that the people you hire a different than they were to, they need different skillsets or different connections or is it still all the same and they're doing all doing the same step that they did.
[00:32:40] Bekah Carlson: Yeah. Saul, it has radically changed in the past three years. So I mean, you go back five years. Like when I started my company almost five years ago, we do, I don't know if I ever could have planned for what we do every. Like the speed with which, and the ability with which we can modify video, for instance, the speed with which we can change branding and develop strategy and create logos.
I mean, it is really, really unbelievable how quickly it's accelerated during pandemic time, especially. And I think that's probably part of it too, because suddenly I used to be, I would ha you know, you hire somebody who can do one thing, but that one thing has shifted and modified and grown so tremendously over the past couple of years that it's like, so I really actually, yeah, I need a bunch of people that can kind of do everything.
[00:33:36] Andreas Senie: go get a generalist, right?
[00:33:38] Bekah Carlson: Yeah. Your average go get her generalist.
[00:33:43] Andreas Senie: I've never met an average one, a true generalist who could do it. Well, I have not met, uh, the, uh, gotta jump in that. Well, well, except the. Uh, well, most of us are generalists in some, in some aspects.
[00:33:56] Saul Klien: And we were talking about interest rates, right?
We didn't really kind of finish that idea about interest rates. So interest rates are going to go up, but they can't go. They can only go up so far because we talked about these non-discretionary expenses and one non-discretionary expenses interest on the national debt. And so we have to pay interest on this debt and the more debt, the more interest we have to pay an interest is a non-discretionary expense.
The government has to pay the interest. It might not have to pay certain other programs. And that's what the fight is all about. But that's the smallest piece of the pie, the big piece of the pie or the non-discretionary items. And so interest rates can go up, but think about who is the biggest debtor, the U S government who, I mean, if interest rates go up, who's going to end up paying the most money.
The U S. And so there's reasons as to why interest rates might not get to the point where they need to be, which happened back in the seventies, we had a guy named Paul Volcker and he wouldn't have used the chairman of the federal reserve. And he wasn't afraid to just raise interest rates and he just ran her up to it.
And you saw him, right? Remember we were selling houses with 18% interest, right. People would buy houses because they knew it would be 19 tomorrow. And they knew the house would be more expensive. And, um, so I don't anticipate that much of a change no matter what the inflation is, just because of the financial situation that countries.
[00:35:27] Andreas Senie: Well, so with everyone on the call, is, are people being more cautious because of it? I wouldn't want to say inflation. I think I would reason that people are more thinking more globally. And then COVID made everyone wake up to the fact that as you bring up in a lot of your talk style, that paradigm shifts really.
Even if it's true, any house anywhere everyone was affected by COVID and probably for the first time ever across generations, because it affects every age. The, the, the acute idea that, Hey, something can really drastically change. Everything to do in my life is permeating and people are cautious, more cautious than they were.
They're stepping out cautiously. And I think a part of that is why they're not going into these new jobs. They don't know what jobs will be there back to your point. Is it better to be a specialist or a generalist? You need generalists, but most companies like to hire specialists and then Solen and Darren, what, what does the future look like for these companies and these government and these municipalities, these organizations to try to figure out the way to, to grow.
Uh, I mean, the legislature is coming. We've seen that as, just as solid as putting on the prior show. What is happening now was scheduled 10 years ago. My question is what has happened. What's going to happen in 10 years. That's being decided now because of all of this and how do we plan for that as, as business owners, as, as people that, uh, lead discussions, how do we help our peers what's happening at each of the different areas that you can see?
[00:37:12] Saul Klien: So I've talked a little bit about the real estate industry and technology has got to play in a big part of this and that is that there's going to continue to be commissioned compression. And so when we look in general at real estate, we look at it, uh, at a bigger piece of it. Let's look at it from when somebody decides they're interested in buying a piece of real estate until the loan's paid off.
Now, during that period of time, a lot of money is spent by people. A lot of hands touch the transaction. More hands that touch the transaction, the more expensive it is. And so what's happening now, particularly with blockchain architecture and some of the other things we're seeing more transactions faster, we're seeing greater capabilities.
And so that's going to affect, if you think about every time on the loan side or on the real estate side, people can take human costs out of the work, if that's possible, that's what they'll do. And so the technology will continue to fine tune the mortgage side, which means you're going to need fewer mortgage loan officers.
And it will also start to fine tune the real estate agent side. If so, if you can cut off a lot of the expense on the mortgage side and consumers want this, right, you can ask the consumer, would you rather pay more or less? Right. And so they're going to want to pay more on both sides. That's going to change the role to be.
And it might even combine the roles who knows where that goes, but people need to be looking for. So we've talked about this for years. People that sell real estate needed to become consultants, right? That we're going to change from being sales to be in work consultative. And then what allows them to do that?
It's looking at data, using data in a way that it helps them figure out where things are going to be in the future, turning information into insight, and that'll help us make the right decisions about land use. But if we just leave it up to the people that buy the land, based on the zoning to build what they want to build, then we'll have what we have now.
That's shortages. People can't afford to buy, right? The old model of everybody buying is kind of dying. Although I think that that's going to come back in a new way with fractionalized ownership, but, um, it's paradigm shift. That paradigm shift is a fundamental shift, right? I know it's an overused word, but it's all we're talking about is when there's something not just to change, but something that's so fundamental.
You know, like the NFL went to golf balls instead of footballs, right? So that's like fundamental. That's going to change the skills people need, and it's going to change the cost that right. Just fundamental change. That's a paradigm shift
[00:39:51] Andreas Senie: and fundamentally changing. But so what I'm hearing from you is we need to be generalists
[00:39:59] Saul Klien: as well.
We need to pay attention. We maybe need to do more than one thing at a time. And from a real estate agent's perspective, what they need to start doing is learning about all the technology that their clients are gonna hear about that their clients are going to be interested in. And if you, if you want to, if you have a question about one of these new real estate company that sells fractionalized ownership or vacation homes or whatever they sell, who should you ask?
You should ask your real estate agent. Because they're your real estate consultant than if they don't know the answers to all of these different things, the good, the bad and the ugly about any of these companies. Then they're not doing their job as a real estate consultant as a real estate professional.
So as we see all these new technologies and we got to figure out how do they benefit consumers? What's the detriment to consumers. If it's real estate related, then the role of the realtor becomes, or the real estate professional becomes to help explain this. Once every six year transaction to somebody in a way that they understand that taking advantage of the technology and the data, knowing you're going to have to do it for less money
[00:41:06] Andreas Senie: and less money in higher costs and then higher inflation.
And it is so, and Becca on the marketing side to sells a statement that you know, why not eliminate costs? Are you seeing or not to put a. Find point laser point on the subject. Are you seeing marketing inclusive of real estate brokers today? Are your investors and everyone going out and looking for deals or promoting deals, are they still as broker friendly in your language or is it, is it already shifting and it's, I want to go direct to consumer, to consumer because I can at least until the cookies disappear, which is a placeholder for that question about cookies, disappear divey over to Darren.
[00:41:48] Bekah Carlson: So what I'm seeing thus far is it is that the comradery of the commercial real estate industry remains. So when you've got professional investors who are looking at multiple markets, They still want to utilize the brokerage community and they're happy to do so on occasion, I have, uh, recently actually for another client, that's raising an investment fund.
Um, their broker came to them and said, we want to work with you. I want to be your broker, but I don't have to be exclusive. And I, and I don't expect you to sign an exclusivity clause. So I was a little surprised at that, quite frankly, because, um, I, I don't think that that was something I would've expected.
I would've maybe a negotiation, maybe some sort of piece, but for the broker to offer I'll work for you. And I will look for properties for you in 10 20 markets for free. That was very, very unexpected. So I am seeing a little, some, some shifts in behavior and shifts in perspective in relation to that contract piece.
And we'll see what goes, you know, we'll see what goes from there as far as what the next steps are. So very unexpected.
[00:43:02] Andreas Senie: Yeah, no, I, I, it's been a long time since I would, if ever for those that don't know on the call, we, we sign exclusives are just poorly named and exclusive agreement should be called an inclusive agreement because when you signed inclusively exclusively for my services as a broker, that means I can shout about your property from the mountaintops.
It means I am your biggest champion. We, our biggest champion, when it's open listing, we don't, or it's being shopped by many brokers and the likelihood of getting paid or not getting paid starts to dwindle. And we have to be much more coveted with what we share. So that is, that would be the paradigm shift to hear that that that is happening out there.
But if you have the address of that property, do let me know. I'll see if I can get licensed in that market. Just kidding. Uh, but I, but I am going to piggyback on the cookies thing as far as cookies, is this something. And I just have to spring that tech side. Cause I don't, I don't see as often as I'd like, uh, is this a big concern for real estate professionals marketing?
I mean, targeted keywords, I guess are the, are easy, but they're super expensive and recharging. Is this, is this even on people's radar for you and for market exchange for retargeting
[00:44:23] Bekah Carlson: cookies? I mean, I hear what he talking about it.
[00:44:26] Andreas Senie: Okay. I'm a little, one of the tech side. I'm hearing the grumblings and Darren on your end, these, these, when I can only call more and more news articles on privacy, where's my data.
How's it being used. Can it be forgotten? Are you, is there any grumblings in the academic world or in the social security? Where on cookies tracking things of these changes, their paradigm shift coming or is it all, is it all a puff in the air? Just hype.
[00:44:55] Darren: Yeah, I think that, that, you know, everybody initially said, oh, you know, people on Facebook, the, the younger generations, they don't really care about privacy, but I think they are, they do care more and more about privacy.
And I think that companies have found that they can just treat their whole dataset of personal information, uh, with one policy, because they've got so many, uh, so much personal information with European citizens, with Canadian citizens, with us citizens, uh, that they've had to develop policies to protect that data, um, from, from a.
You know, w with, with a single approach, more of a single approach, because they don't always know. I mean, one of the problems working in incident response for example, is when a breach has occurred and you have all these ex-pats and more and more people who are working remotely, you know, what's key is where are they resident?
And a lot of companies don't know where these people, whose information has been exposed are actually resonant right now. Okay. Are they working remotely in the UK? Are they working remotely in France? And that really impacts the disclosure to the local regulation. And so that's why, you know, companies have decided that they have to view.
Approach to how they protect data and make sure that personal information isn't compromised for everybody. And that they're storing somewhat less data sometimes because of the risk of regulatory fines. Um, I think also the, the shift that's happening just piggybacking off what Saul said is there's always this continual try to push employees out and use technology to answer questions.
And I think that the, the artificial intelligence just isn't there, the technology isn't there yet. I'm sure everybody on this call knows when you've tried to use one of these automated chats that it just does not work. And, and people have so many unique situations because we all use technology very differently and we all have so many different types of technical devices that we need help with or, or services that we need.
But you know, that there's so much uniqueness to every query and pulling so many people out of the equation has just been a nightmare. I mean, I had an issue that I was trying to fix with, uh, with Microsoft, for example, it was a fraud alert and I wanted to check on this fraud alert and I couldn't find an 800 number.
I looked online at a time that I heard that they have disabled that now. So you'd kind of even call about fraud alerts and that kind of thing, which, and there's, there's no automated way of dealing with these kinds of things, you know? So I think that that a lot of people. We'll pay a premium to speak to a person today and avoid some of that artificial intelligence and that technology.
I mean, I think that's why, you know, apple, we're all overpaying for apple devices, but we know that we can speak to a person at the end of the day if we, if we have a problem with one of those devices. So, you know, that's just my 2 cents.
[00:48:15] Andreas Senie: Well, it's shrinking and shrinking. They expect what's the most expensive thing employee, I'm sorry, real estate that employees no employees in real estate, or maybe that's shifting as we speak.
I had Darren, you probably know this. Have you guys seen the Google duplex, AI, uh, assistant. She can actually reserve in what is believable, uh, reserved make reservations at a restaurant as if she's a real person and they did this on, on their expo show and it sounded real. It even the, the AI. As if like, oh, what did you say in such a way that there was a stutter in the response?
And I listened to it. I listened to three times. I said, wow. If it was really that good point, maybe I'd listened. That'd be great. Cause I hate robo-advisor.
[00:49:02] Saul Klien: Yeah, Andrea is, you should watch this movie. It's an Al Pachino movie. And I can't remember the name of it, but he's a Hollywood producer and he creates a star and she is not really a star.
She's like a holy grail. And she becomes a giant star. So big of a star. He can't keep the lie alive anymore. So he figures you needs to kill her. Right? I mean, it's a computer. And so he kills her and then he gets arrested and tried for murdering this big star who really wasn't a big star at all. She was, you love the movie.
It says that along that same line, right? The AI fooled everybody. Right. Whereas the technology actually got to the point where it fooled everybody.
[00:49:49] Darren: Well, if only it was that good. Right?
[00:49:52] Andreas Senie: Well, but then there's a moral dilemma. It's really a fun.
[00:49:55] Saul Klien: It's kind of fun
[00:49:56] Andreas Senie: to watch. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I've been Al Pachino fan.
I would like to see it and uh, hopefully we'll watch it now.
That'll be my starting point. Everybody starts at YouTube today, I think. But the, uh, but the, so then go
[00:50:15] Saul Klien: ahead. I was just going to say this thing about, um, cookies going away and I haven't heard much about that, but I've heard of some alternatives that take the people say, well, how are. The cook, these do that.
So now I understand why there were these other people working on these other technologies that people say, well, cookies do that. So then now people are talking about no cookies. And then you mentioned, how might that affect the real estate industry and how might that affect retargeting? And I can just say the way I feel about the internet and leads and real estate agents is they overpay for stuff that's really not valuable because they can't figure out how to use it.
So Zillow says a hundred million people go to the Zillow site every month. And realtor.com says 60 million people go to the realtor.com site every month. And Troy says 70 million people go to the real estate, uh, go to their website every month. And yet only 6 million people buy real estate during the year.
So, but all of those people are potential leads, sale. To all of these agents who buy these in and they sell them on there. You can retarget, you can do this, you can do that. But the bottom line is these people have been saying for years, and I think it's still the case. Real estate is a relationship business.
So while you can develop a business off of leads of people you've never met in your life off of the internet, that takes some doing. And there are other ways to do it. The old fashioned way, like meeting people, talking to people, going to basic little league baseball games. I been doing becoming the expert in the community, knowing about the, the, you know, the change to the houses in the neighborhood, because you were in that neighborhood before they made the room addition built trust and competence.
And so cookies going away. No big deal.
[00:51:54] Andreas Senie: Yeah. Well, so your network is still your net worth tried and true today. Could people building your business? And, uh, I heard it, I think it was actually, um, the Harvard business review. There was a discussion about becoming an investigative reporter in all of your, everything you do.
I personally, I don't watch a lot of sports, but I can carry a conversation and I can certainly get to a point of you talking, talking to me about sports in a way in which that it was remarkable and memorable, and that's something we can do in real estate, knowing everything about planning and zoning. Uh, we, uh, recently we put a tenant in, uh, EAC, put a tenant.
Uh, it, it was a off the cuff conversation from a zoning approval to pave the roads, not a zoning approval, but. Temp committee approval. Lots of coffee said, oh yeah, we've got to repave. Those in is in a zoning meeting and turned in and it turned out that down the road, two conversations, it was well, where are we going to put those guys when they come into town?
How are we, how, where, where did they launch from which turned into a nice office lease nice equipment lease exterior lease for the period which this was for. So network is network always will be digital or personal, but AI, AI is not part of your network personally. Not mine. Anyways. I don't, I don't talk to Siri personally.
I won't do it
[00:53:28] Saul Klien: go, man. I don't either. It doesn't mean that somehow some way things I liked ended up getting shown to me.
[00:53:37] Andreas Senie: Oh, well that's do you have Alexa? Cause she's listening.
[00:53:41] Saul Klien: Anything like that? I don't turn that on. Right? I don't need it. Um, I stay home most of the time. And I can get up and do things myself.
So I don't use that at all, but it doesn't matter. It still shows up that stuff shows up and it's like, not like stuff that would just show up because like it's stuff that's age specific, right. If somebody looking at my right and they knows that these are the kinds of things that should pop up and,
[00:54:09] Andreas Senie: oh, it's, uh, it's incredible what they can do today.
Um, Salesforce has a big marketing cloud behind it, where, and this, this goes to telematics. So if anyone listening and, uh, those of us who have a car that's newer than 2013 GPS or not, your car is on a map all the time. Uh, and
[00:54:31] Saul Klien: so what, that's, how they can tell you the time that it takes to get somewhere, because all they know all the card data, and you were wondering, it looks at 15 minutes to the next exit.
No, usually it'll tell you how many miles to the next. But now it tells you time. Yeah.
[00:54:48] Andreas Senie: Cause, cause it, cause you're being tracked all the time, somewhere in there, somebody probably lifts a Fitbit in your drawer, which is tracking you to of some sort. But, uh, it, it's, it's incredible. We're being tracked at every moment and we are being a profile has been built.
And whenever I think of profile, I think like an FBI profiler, but our profile of us is being built and every action we take, how long did I pause at that store? Just your cell phone. That was how long did I pause at a certain Adam, my TV everything's being tracked aggregated and then given out. Um, but going back to the cookie statement, a term I'm hearing more often now is first party data agreements, which I love because what's the MLS and its infancy and it's standard today.
It's an agreement between multiple parties, first parties to share it. So I think in that respect realtors and real estate professionals have been ahead of the curve. Our network is our net worth, but we also understand the value of information. So I think, but
[00:55:52] Darren: no, I was just thinking about that story of, of, uh, the young teenager who started getting all these flyers and marketing materials about pregnancy.
And this father didn't even know anything. And you always wondering what happened and there was this long investigation and eventually they found, I think it might've been target or something. And somebody worked. Yeah. Somebody worked at that. If somebody buys like a big bag and a colorful rug and multivitamins, it generally is an indicator that somebody is pregnant.
I don't know how they came up with that. But then there's these kinds of things that we don't think about that, that, that the data tells us that we wouldn't think
[00:56:33] Saul Klien: about.
Now what algorithm they use to determine that someone is pregnant, it has to do with, like you said, what did they buy? What perfumes do they buy? What powders do they buy? Do they buy diapers? And right. So we've been, this has been happening in industrial years. We go into like the Safeway store and then they ask us when we put all our stuff there and then they say, do you have a phone number?
And you give them your phone number and then they give you a discount. Well, what you're really telling them is you buy milk on Wednesdays, you pay, right. I mean, everything you. They know when, and that helps him stock the shelves and no assaults coming in on Wednesday. We better have a lot of pomegranate juice, right?
Not really, but I mean, that's what they know that they are going to use this stuff just based on this history of consumer use of their, of their service, their
[00:57:26] Darren: product. They do this in cyber security as well. Like, like Palentier, for example, there's a truck. If somebody comes in and starts their computer at eight 30 every day has be working for years.
And then they start coming in at 9 0 8 logging in nine 15, it's an indicator. They've probably got a job and they're moving on.
[00:57:45] Andreas Senie: That's what the tool is for. Well, you leaving. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
[00:57:51] Saul Klien: Information. Yup.
[00:57:54] Andreas Senie: And cyclical and tracking cyclical changes. So we already talked about cyclical changes in the economy and in real estate and using information and leveraging your network network is your network being generalist.
This was a busy call today, uh, all around them, all around the park. And matter of fact, we've actually hit the top of the hour and it's, and is always the format. What is the, the one biggest thing you would suggest that real estate professionals or others do in this coming month to prepare for that future?
I know we talked about what's that big shift, but let's go around and, and then, uh, we're going to close out and look forward to seeing everybody next month.
Darren, why don't you go first? You know, we don't see it out there. What's the one big thing that people should start doing because what was the name of the app? That's going to tell me if I'm quitting one more time.
[00:58:46] Darren: Well, well there is that tool Palentier, and there's other tools that, that see if there's a change in employee's behavior that may indicate that they're going to leave and, and may be of interest to focus on that person.
So, yeah, you've got to think about how your, your, you know, one of the things as well, that I've noticed is that we as forensic investigators, we often look at, at photographs and we can look at X of data and determine where somebody is being and what kind of phone they're using and all kinds of information from that one photograph.
But you can do this on your iPhone. Now you can slide up the picture and you can see all that metadata. And so just be careful when you send pictures to people because they will know where you are and what kind of phone you have and lots of information. So, so think about that kind of information as well.
[00:59:38] Andreas Senie: Uh, no, that's, that's great. I didn't, I didn't realize you could do that on the iPhone yet. Can you, can you, since iPhone is bigger and sorry, I just have to ask, since I phones new position is the security lock thing. Can you take a photo without metadata as, as one of those raw formats? I think
[00:59:58] Darren: the only thing you could probably do is just disabled your location services.
[01:00:04] Andreas Senie: That's your only chance.
[01:00:05] Darren: Yeah, but that's, you're still giving away lots of information about yourself, but, but that's one prevention measure.
[01:00:12] Andreas Senie: All right. No, that's that's good advice. I take it further. Don't get photographed. Anything online is online forever. So let's go back to. Camera's um, saw you're shaking your head there.
I know you're laughing. I'm telling you, I think I see an apple watch on your shelf back there.
[01:00:33] Saul Klien: No, no apple, what do they know? That's actually a SpongeBob watch.
That's my granddaughter years ago. Right? She was cause my granddaughter is like 27, 26 and she has a baby, so, and she, and we raised her. So when she lived here, I thought it would be a good thing that grandpa and her would have sponge Bob watches. Right. So mine, I figured I would never want to change it.
Cause I'm going antique roadshow sometime it'll still be in the box and it'll be worth more. Right. So, um, no, I was smiling, uh, just about the it's a complex world. And so I think people need to start looking at niches, lots of niches and a niche is not necessarily. I mean, it's a lot of things. I can be a 10 31 exchange that could be my niche.
My niche could be doctor clients or nurse clients, or there's a number of niches and we need to be exploring and demonstrating. And first, uh, figuring out the demonstrating expertise because it's about relationships. So first you've got to build rapport. Then you got to train, uh, gain trust and competence.
And the way you do that is by demonstrating that you have knowledge and demonstrating that you have expertise because that builds trust. And so niches, I want to learn more about the tax changes that are possibly coming down. I want to learn more about some of the advantages that are coming to my city because of the federal money that's going to be spent to change the, the, uh, transportation infrastructure.
I want to prospect tax preparers because they already have the trust and confidence of a big clientele of people. So I think people today with the uncertainty look at niches, but not in that one, I'm not talking about one. I'm talking about looking at different. It really, I'm talking about different areas where you can gain more knowledge than other people and then figure out how to express that.
[01:02:40] Andreas Senie: Now it is definitely nightfall. There is definitely.
[01:02:43] Bekah Carlson: Yeah. All right. So I'm going to give mine and then I'm going to have to hop off, but saw. I am so happy and yet so sad that you totally stole mine. And in many ways, because I wanted to talk about niches too, because in real estate, I think that that niche positioning is really important, especially right now to like, own and dominate your space.
So like as a marketer, I get to be a generalist as a real estate professional. That's not quite as easy to do. And if you can pick what you're doing and really grow, even in, even if it's in a different direction, but dominate it, like let everybody know this is what you do and own it. And let people say good things about you doing it and get that communication out there.
It's going to be really helpful looking forward because 12 months from now, you're going to be really glad that you started it now because it's. With the inflation with interest rates rising, all of these things make that spread a little closer together and the competition is going to be fierce. So niche,
[01:04:02] Andreas Senie: there it is. Niche still the, the cybersecurity thing. Well next call next month, answer that way.
As far as, as far as my 2 cents at the end of the end of this, this round table, I think the, you know, paying attention to going green to that cause point Saul's point about niches, although you may dedicate to mastery in certain areas and communicated really well. Um, I think now more than ever the impact perception, your brand, it's very important.
And I think. Being green and being very intentional about who you do business with to Darren's point about overseas. Could you have your, you are who you with, right. And how you make things in the way you perceive. So yes, knowledge, but just as important, making sure that your network and the you're in your own infrastructure to do business as rock solid as real photo.
That's my 2 cents on it. Uh, and for those tuning in and joining us on the 17th for our first guest appearance, one-on-one we have inland green capital special guest announcement coming soon. And for those of us tuning in every month, who knows when next month we'll bring, except they will be happier, better place than we are.
Those of us that need it. And for those of us in a great place today, uh, onward number is the best direction we have. It's the only one God gave us. So, so thank you as always for joining Darren. Thank you for joining this tremendous back there. You can't get, you can't get to a thousand. If you don't do one.
Is that still your best, best advice for those? Yeah, the, I, if you, if you haven't started one, then yeah, that's my best advice for you. Start the one. I would also say, you know, if you're in a season, um, uh, we're where things aren't exactly. Um, moving. If you're not in a harvest season, then plant some seeds so that you're, uh, you're ready for the next harvest.
I love it. I love it. Will you lead us out? Thanks again, guys. I'm looking forward to a great show next month and looking forward to a great month overall. Happy
[01:06:19] Saul Klien: to see you next time.
[01:06:21] Andreas Senie: Great to see everyone. There's.