Not By Chance Podcast

The Power of Family Dinner

• Dr. Tim Thayne • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Dr. Tim Thayne interviews Christine Van Wagenen on the importance of having family dinner. Christine Van Wagenen lives her life with uncommon exuberance. She has dedicated her life to serving women in her family, community, and throughout the world. She strives to utilize and share all her divine gifts. This helped her gracefully raise six children, own and operate a cooking school, serve with her husband on two missions in Asia, and bravely return to university studies after a 33-year hiatus to earn her Bachelor’s degree. Her anticipated book, The Power of Family Dinner: Does Your Dining Table Gather Dust or Your Family? will be available Spring of 2020.

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Talmage Thayne:

Welcome to the not by chance podcast where we discuss intentional Family Living. I'm Talmage Tim, Thayne son and podcast manager. Today, Dr. Tim Thayne will be interviewing Christine Van Wagnon. Christine has lived her life with an uncommon exuberance. She's dedicated her life to serving women in her family, community and throughout the world. She has strived to utilize those gifts that she does have. And this has helped her gracefully raise six children own and operate her own cooking school, served with her husband on two church missions in Asia, and bravely returned to university after a 30 year hiatus to earn her bachelor's degree. Her anticipated book The Power of family meals will be the discussion point today, the way this episode was recorded was a little bit backwards. Because they started talking after the fact. And I just pressed record, we ended up getting some really good golden nuggets. And so it's a little out of order, but you guys will be able to follow along, let's jump into this

Christine Van Wagnon:

a lot of men have been asked me beforehand, they would stop on the way home and eat something and, or they would come late. So they didn't have to be part of the dinner thing because they didn't want the chaos. And I started teaching couples, and engaging the father in the food preparation, the family and the food preparation once a week. So that then the fear group blah, blah, blah. And it was husbands who came back to me and said, I can't believe what a difference this has made in our marriage because I'm I'm eating. I'm eating well. And I want to be around my family. And I'm no longer stopping for food on the way. And my wife is no longer serving cold cereal.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

You know, it's true when when Roxanne's really ultra busy, which is a lot these days. I know the kids are like, wish we had something and I'm not helping either. Right? So it's. And I know it's a point of guilt for her because she knows how powerful it is how important it is that the kids come home, what's what are we going to eat? And it's like, they're kind of wanting all of that because we've had wonderful family meals. And we had you remember that period of time where we had that little book that the Halston would always get him he was the designated kid, he just wanted to get so bad because he was connecting. And the book was a bunch of questions. So he just randomly pick a question. And everybody go around the table and answer the question. And Halston never missed a meal that he didn't pull out the book. Because Tim, that was every bit as fun and enjoyable as the meal. Absolutely. It was. It was a big part of it. So this is good. I look for is your book. You got the chapters kind of figured out?

Christine Van Wagnon:

Yeah, I think so I've been kind of busy with those other things for our book for helping others. But the focus is going back. Yeah. Because it's my passion. It's my ministry, if you have it goes deep

Dr. Tim Thayne:

inside you. I mean, and, and, you know, I really have been one of the fortunate ones to sit around your table and to experience the spirit, the food, the connection, all of that in your home. And it's been, yeah, it's so obvious to me that that's a lot of love put into that. And, and, and you feel the love.

Christine Van Wagnon:

Right. And, and I think that that is the reason we get hungry. So that will connect. I know that sounds a little weird. But I think God could have created us where we didn't need food as much, you know, and we'd live in a culture where food is readily available. But women, there was a there was a movement. That's a whole nother story really, but but women it was popular not to cook that was aristocratic is that, oh, I don't cook. You know, they have somebody do that. And even a lot of young girls now, you know, they don't cook, they can play soccer like nobody's business, but they don't know how to cook. And many of their mothers now, they didn't know how to cook either because they left the home into the workplace for lots of different reasons. And so we have a couple of generations now that this isn't unimportant. So some of the things I'm putting in my book is here's some one pot dinners that are really good. And this is all you need. And this is how you set your table. And this is how you get the kids involved. And this is who shops and this is and you do that. And I'm really thrilled that my children's families do that. And it makes a difference. I Congrats on you said I can't find a girl who knows how to cook grandma. And he doesn't even want to date a girl that does not.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

Yeah, you know, you're making me think of my grandma. Because, and and really, I had three grandmas one was not really my grandma, but we thought she was for a long time. She was a woman back in in Virginia where my dad women's mission. And in my mom was, was baptized out there. So I knew I had grandma read out there. I had grandma thing here. And then we have grandma Miller out there. So I was kind of when I was little, why do I have two grandmas in here. But one was just just a great friend of my dad's, he was a missionary, and she, she was just amazing woman, but we'd go there, and the effort put into the, the meals in the food. And with my grandma thing, you could not go into her house ever without her feeding. And it was automatic. I knew if I was going to Grandma's house, she was gonna feed me, right.

Christine Van Wagnon:

And that's why I think that's why my kids come home now. It's about the food. But it's also that excuse to feel what they felt when they were younger, and to reconnect and to be instead of having to perform Yeah,

Dr. Tim Thayne:

hear their stories and listen to the talk. That really was, as I think about it, the some of my greatest memories, really is my Thanksgiving, with all my big thing family. They're in grandma's house with. She has school, it was an old school house that they lived in. And so the front room was massive. And she had a big family. And one part of that room was the kitchen with a low wall. So So that's it, there's couches and seating all the way around this big room. And then one corner was the kitchen over here. And the counters only up that high. And so we're, we're we're right there in the middle of it and and it was just so great. And like I said, I knew every time like go groundless, you know, I knew I would be fed. And most of the time, it was homemade bread. And it was the kind of stuff that you you really couldn't get anywhere else, you know, and amazing. You know, she would force you to eat, it wasn't really a question. You're gonna eat, you know. And I started to anybody came through never wasn't just right.

Christine Van Wagnon:

It is a ministry of hospitality when we cook for others. And that's lost. It just absolutely lost. Absolutely that you don't because it's interesting

Dr. Tim Thayne:

that we love each other and our neighbor in our ward. You know what? We don't insist not you're gonna sit down and eat. You know, everybody's always in a rush. We're always in a rush. But I mean, grandma would not take no for an answer. And and really, you tried to say no, to be polite, but you don't want to say no. And so. Okay. I guess I guess I have time.

Christine Van Wagnon:

Once you recognize what that is, then then you can be very gracious. And say thank you so much for doing this. Yeah. Because that is her offering. Oh, absolutely. And to, I don't know, it's this whole, I don't even know what to call it. Tim. And I need to come up with a word. It's not an industry. It's not a movement. It's not that it's a concept. Yes. But it's more than a concept. It is an opportunity that we have set aside that we have said, no, no, I'm too busy to do that. It's more important for my son to play soccer than it is for him to come to family dinner. And as soon as we can move that there's a study that was done up in Minnesota that was really fascinating. I'll tell you about it someday. But anyway, so long that line is that we are setting aside the opportunity that was created from Adam and Eve to eat together. And we've set that aside. For what for my child to play soccer five days a week and then my husband to make more money. Yes, we have to but surely we can find some time but We've just kind of done this

Dr. Tim Thayne:

blanket spin. Yeah, it's been squeezed out of the schedule. That's it, and it's squeezed. And there's a lot of things that, that are like that, that if we would go retro, we would be a lot better off. You know, like, we could have a few things that are old school that we keep, even in this modern, crazy world, but we make room for that. Another one is something that I, I believe in a lot, that's kind of rally just as core to it. And that is the home team like connection, like, you know, sharing our burdens with each other. Like really, you know, not having superficial relationships with everybody except our therapist. That's what I see, in a lot of families that we work with is that they, they don't want to be vulnerable to their neighbors, or their extended family members, or whatever, they're sort of trying to do it on their own. And, and kind of wanting to appear to have it all together, and wanting to, you know, not have not not need to be vulnerable. So when we asked them to do that, you know, back in the day, you know, you kind of, especially in small communities, you sort of do know more about individuals. And when I grew up, I mean, I could do anything wrong without being caught by somebody that knew me,

Christine Van Wagnon:

right. I know. But my boy said, that, I'll say, Well, I heard that you took a little reprieve from school today. I go, What do you mean? Well, I heard you were at the arcade. Do you know that? Well, Mrs. So and So saw you and she just wanted to let me know that there might be a concern that you get caught not being in school. We can't do anything without somebody telling you. But you know what, my kids love all those people. Now, our community, we are pretty tight. Everyone's like, we've lived there for 32 years. And we're kind of the newbies and raised our kids together. And there was we all knew that little things that we're going to work on together, working together, because we didn't need to know the details. And I think that's the thing. That is a maturity that comes by being willing to be a little bit for vulnerable. Yeah. And and to take the chiding, you know, we did some things with our children that our neighbors thought we weren't terrible parents. And why? Yeah. Why would you ever do that to your child? Don't you know your child could have died out there? Don't you know this? Don't you know that? And I want to say now, that boy was saved. And he now has a master's degree and a fabulous position and a beautiful family. And we saved him from what was going on? And yet, they all know that now. Yeah, no, we don't talk about it. But sometimes you have to give each other that. And if I can be of any help to you, you can tell I'm pretty passionate. Well,

Dr. Tim Thayne:

this is a big help for for starters.

Talmage Thayne:

Now let's remember that was recorded when they didn't know it was actually happening. But there were so many good stories and nuggets of wisdom I had to include. Let's get on to the rest of the podcast.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

So as we get started, so we're talking about family dinner. And the question is, is it really worth the effort? Because I think about the some of the things you've put on some not just the events, but even just family dinner or lunch or, you know, after church or whatever you've put a lot into it, is it worth it, for families to go through the hassle to be able to eat together?

Christine Van Wagnon:

We all know that there's been so much research done on the benefit of having family meals together, everything from better grades in school, to less likelihood of them getting into drugs or alcohol, or premature sex. Those types of things have been studied, and it has come to our grand attention. That family meal, make a difference because it makes first a difference in their relationship with their parents and with each other. And I feel that when we put effort into something, we are going to get something out. Now. We don't all have the same skill set. And we don't all have the same vision. I go a little beyond the norm just because that is a happy thing for me. And yet, we know that gathering together is incredibly, incredibly important. I have been, I've had a cooking school for several years. And I also teach cooking in my home, and have had experiences with families and helping them in their homes. begin this process of having family meals together. And so I am so enthusiastic because of the results I've seen in the family. Now, of course, we're gonna have additional challenges. That's what life's all about. But my motto is it is about the food.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

I think that's right. Christina, you've watched this for a while, and you've seen the benefits of this. But can you think of an example of family that didn't eat together, and what life was like for them at that time, and then they made the change and started eating together what happened?

Christine Van Wagnon:

I have a story of a father who is widowed, and his wife passed away, they had five young children. And they were not doing well. There was trouble with the teenagers. And there was trouble with little children. And he was pretty much beside himself when he came to one of my cooking classes. And he said, My children won't eat anything. And I said, Well, I can help you with that. But tell me a little bit more about the situation, which what I just described. And so he came to class, and we taught him a few things that he could do. And he said, I don't know if they'll eat this. I said, we'll just go ahead and make it and and make him set the table, tell them ahead of time what time dinner is going to be and see who shows up. And so the next week, he came back to class, he was early this time, he was sitting on the front row instead of the back row. And he said, they ate it. And he was thrilled. He said not everybody was there. But you know, they they took a few bites. And he said I think my table that kind of sorta Okay, he was a little bit shy about that. But he said, I'm going to try again. So teach me something else. And so then we started making meal plan and having the ingredients on hand. And I suggested that he might invite one of his daughters just to set the table and gave him a kind of a map of how to set a table. And he came back the following week. And he said, more of the kids came to dinner, and they ate it. And my daughter was really happy to be in the kitchen with me while we were setting it up to make a long story a bit longer. This went on for several weeks. So he continued to come to class, and we continue to teach. And he continued to incorporate what he had learned with his family, and inviting them to participate, having a schedule, having meals that he could prepare and invited the family to participate with him. It made all the difference to them. As far as communication, they started dealing with what they're feeling is worth the loss of their mother, adult, not adult children, the teenage children were connecting with their father, where they were distancing themselves previously to that after the loss of their mother. And so it is about the food. But it's also about the opportunity to gather the family once more around the table. Because ultimately, Tim, what children really want at that dinner table issue. They want their parents they want that connection they want a safe place to be.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

That's so true. That's a really powerful reminder to all of us, what's maybe at the top of the need list is that connection and relationship. You know, I got to think about this, of all the things that you've listed a bunch of things that this can help with, and the research proves it out. It helps on all kinds of levels. And, and as I thought about this, as a therapist, you know, clinical person, I thought if there's anything out there that you can identify that actually affects in positive directions, multiple things across the spectrum of issues that a family could have. I want to know about right? And everybody ought to know about that. And you've picked it. The thing I think the topic for the podcast have of the year we have been going very long. So we have to say the podcast the year of the thing that would hit the most positive benefits by doing one thing consistently. And so that's pretty powerful. I like to look at things like that, where if you do something that's so core, and facilitate so many things, it actually has a cascading effect on to things that you didn't intend tended to do. If you think about mealtime, the number one intention for most of us who eat is to taste something fill up be, you know, get the fuel our body needs, right? But what are the unintended positive benefits that are cascading off of that and, and you're saying if we gathered together as a family around mealtime, then all many of these things are going to start to happen. So what about those families who think I don't think I can get my family together every night? So how can they reap the benefits that have been talked about so far,

Christine Van Wagnon:

I think it's very important to understand that every family is unique. But that doesn't mean that you don't, that you're not eating, eating never goes out of style. It never goes out and forgetting it is it is always there. And that is why I think this is such a great habit to have, because you've already have the habit of eating right? You don't have to say, well, do I want to eat or not? The decisions already made. But how we do that. And when we do and where we do it is important. We might want to go back to those studies that were done, because they said that the families that had five to seven meals a week together, will reap those benefits. Now, how many meals do you think do you think we have to get together every single night? That sounds like an impossibility? It probably is. But if you think well, we could do a breakfast, we could do a picnic, in the car, we can do on the way to the soccer game, I have tons of ideas of things that you can do. And I've tried to help families recognize that they can be creative in that. In the early 50s, that's when we really started to have these big family meals, elaborate meals with several courses. Before that time, everyone was eating out of a community pot, so to speak. And everyone would ladle out their soup into their bowl. And the meals were fairly simple. In other cultures that I've experienced, they still do that. And they only occasionally have those big elaborate meals. So first of all, we need to look at what works for our family, and just say we're going to have seven meals together. When are we going to do that? How is that going to work for us? What is the meal going to look like? When my children were young, they were hungry at four o'clock. Well, their father didn't get home from the office until six. And so we had crying cranky children. So I started feeding them their dinner at 430. Then they would were out doing their things. My husband would come home, I would feed him his dinner with the children having a little snack, but we're all gathered around the table. So we no longer had cranky children. We had peace and quiet. And it was that family time. So this is an idea.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

What I love about what you're doing here for a lot of us, I think is helping us overcome mental barriers to this. Because first you have this fantasy thinking I think if if you're listening to this, you might have this fantasy thinking, maybe if I did this once a week or twice a week, maybe I'd have some positive outcomes. Well, I'd say if they're not doing any, that would actually be a significant benefit. To start there. The other thing you're doing is helping us see how we can get creative and get past some of the the maybe the formal ideas about what the mealtime ought to be in order for us to have the the ultimate experience that that the mealtime has around these things and when families gather. So thanks for that. I think there's, I assume you're going to really dive into that in your book to probably giving a lot of a lot of ideas for families. And so that's an fact this this talk about the title of the book, it's tight. The title of the book, at least the working title, is the power of family meals. Does your family table, gather dust or gather your family? And I love that it's a it's a great question for us. So a question I have is, you know, part of the magical thinking a lot of us have is that we just, you know, get around a table and eat magic happens. I assume it might but also could be negative. Unless you're a little bit more designing and deliberate about it. Can you give us some ideas of what you would do to to make not just the meal itself, but to make the meal time together have some of these positive ripple effects in people's lives.

Christine Van Wagnon:

As I mentioned before, it's about the food but it's really not all about the food. It is about the presentation. And I don't mean the display or intercut food. But what I'm saying is it is an event and one of the reasons that we remember meals is because it uses all of our senses, okay for us to smell, and, and then you're here you're hearing people, and you're able to speak with one another. And it's tactile, you're eating, you're doing something with your hands. And so when you're using all of your senses, and an on an occasion, you're going to remember that it's not just listening to something. And I feel that as we strategically place people at the table, that's important, you might have a couple of people who really don't like to sit by each other, it just makes them crazy. You can picture that. And so, seating arrangement, and so you could have place cards, and then you rotate those around, you could rotate seating every night, or every, every time you eat together. Or if you like to cozy up, and everyone has their little spot, and they like their spot, then you can do that. So you need to kind of read your family. And, but more importantly, to make that a really great occasion and to have that cascading effect that you were talking about earlier, is how are we going to involve the family in this? You know, you can have one person who is beating the drum, so to speak, and everyone is kind of ignoring it, because it's might be new to you. And you're going I don't know if I want to do this? And is it really going to happen? Or is it going to continue to happen? Or is this just a flash in the pan. So when we plan, we don't just plan the menu, but you plan what you're going to do at the table conversation is incredibly important. Mealtime is not a time that you are going to discipline, it is not a time to be kind of trying to motivate someone to do something, it's not the time they want to eat, they want to feel comfort, and pleasure. You can save those things for a separate time. But just like when I'm going to ask my husband, if I can buy something, and it's not in the budget, I'll make sure he's fed first. So that he can think clearly.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

You know what this reminds me of where we've have a new puppy in the family right now. And we're trying to house training. And one of the things you do with little dogs as you want. And unfortunately, we brought him in right when winters County's little, little puppy, he doesn't like the cold. And that's where we want him to go to the bathroom. And so what we're trying to do is make sure it's as positive as possible. So we're taking three little treats out there every time. And as soon as he does what he's supposed to do. We praise Him, we given the three treats. And today for the very first time he wanted out on his own. But that was exciting for us. But I see this is really parallel, you're talking about not creating any kind of adverse experience at the dinner table exact there are other places to do that. Other times to do that. This is a time for building relationships, connecting, having fun, and and really making sure that all people are feeling involved and loved.

Christine Van Wagnon:

Absolutely I've I view, the kitchen table, the dining table, wherever you're going to eat as the family altar, you come there and you come for peace, you come for nurturing, you come to feel connected, you come to maybe mourn together, to rejoice together. And that you feel that is an absolute safe place to be and you can't wait to get there. We are so bombarded with the negative in our lives, is everywhere. And yet we can create that around our own family alter our own family dining table.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

You know, I like kind of the way you're you're trying to help people understand there's lots of ways they could have this experience. But there's some true principles here. And that is probably the most important things to to reemphasize. I think anything that that is distracting, like a cell phone, for example. Try this. I mean, just for 30 minutes, see if you can have a electronic device free mealtime and maybe you have to start out I'm I'm assuming that's not going to be liked by a lot of kids. And that might feel adverse. And that's kind of the interesting thing about it is they may feel that's punishing meant to go to the mealtime if I can't have my phone with me, right, but at the same time, there's not going to be a connection. There's a major disconnect. Anytime somebody's on their device. They don't even know who's really with them or even what the taste of the food was like right So, I would, I would suggest, and I assume you would agree, it would be really good for families to, to work into, where that they can turn off their phones, put their phones away and just be present with each other.

Christine Van Wagnon:

I agree with that, Tim, I know that we have to kind of give the dangle the carrot of, I'm making the sacrifice, I'm going to prepare the food, or we're going to do this, and are you willing to make the sacrifice to turn your farm off, or even just put it in your lap instead of in front of you while you're eating, then maybe they leave them in a basket on the counter, after a few weeks, or whatever it's going to take for them to work into that. The same thing with food, it's not really about the nutrition where you begin, don't worry about that. I can remember times that I had a cereal bar, and they just ate cereal. And they loved it. But they were all around the table. Nobody was going on like that, because I knew they liked it. And so instead of me saying we're going, Okay, we're going to eat healthy, and we're going to eat together and do all of that. It's going to be an adverse reaction, right. And so don't worry about that, at the very beginning, create the habit of gathering together, that that is a sacred holy time, don't tell the kids that then they won't want to do it. But for you, as parents, I think that you can create that feeling by being united and what you're going to do and then easily can transition to the family, then as I think is another important piece is to make sure that you get feedback from them. How do you feel about this? What did you like about it? Is this do you want to? Should we try it again? Those types of questions and involve them and let them have input. They might have some ideas, they might have ideas about topics that you could talk about. I know one family and the father at beginning of the day would ask ask a question. He wrote it up on a whiteboard. And then the kids would look at the question, and it'll say, Okay, come back with an answer tonight. And so, maybe some didn't, some didn't. But eventually, they all looked forward to being able to answer the question. So it created the kind of conversation that they wanted her around the table. Um, once again, it's not a time to Vande or to air or to correct. Really, it's not a time to make decisions. It's just a time to be that can eventually move into perhaps like a family council. But once again, I would be cautious about doing that. Just enjoy that time together.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

So as we wrap up, I'd like to maybe have you summarize maybe your top three things that you would do for someone who, let's say they don't have a tradition or habit right now. Family mealtime were many, many times together as a family, where can they start? What's the top three things you'd say to start with, and then go from there. And turns out, we're not far from the first of the year. And so there's going to be a little challenge, I think, coming here that we want to invite everybody to take these these first steps and see the benefits of it. So what would you say would be the three things you'd say, to a family that's wanting to just kind of get started?

Christine Van Wagnon:

The first thing is clear off your table. If you haven't been dining around your table, if you haven't been eating ready to clear it off, dust it off. And it's going to have new new life, in your family and in your home. So determine the space. Where are you going to do this? The second thing is enlist what you already know, what do you know that your family enjoys eating, make a list of maybe three or four things, make sure you have those ingredients on hand. Now, that doesn't mean it can't be a drive thru, that you're going to pick up something or that you can order something online. Right now we're just creating a habit. But make sure it's food that you know that your family enjoys. The third thing I would do is set up a schedule. Not a strict schedule. But so when our seven, five, okay, we'll start with five times that we can eat together this week. And it might all be on Sunday breakfast, lunch and dinner. And then maybe to other dinners or something, some combination, and put that together, post that. Make sure that everyone knows when it's going to be and then you have cleaned off table you have food that's coming in that you know your family will enjoy. And you have a schedule that you can start with.

Dr. Tim Thayne:

Perfect, perfect. And I was just thinking about the young adults who are out of the home and yet, hopefully maybe one of those dinners if they're close enough, they could even be a part of. So that's kind of the state situation that Roxanne and I are in. So this has been amazing Christie, thank you. I'm, I've always been a proponent of this, but I'm more so now than I was after after having this conversation with you. And I look forward to your book coming out. You've given a lot of really practical and visual things that that, you know, we can definitely do. So, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Christine Van Wagnon:

It's my pleasure.

Talmage Thayne:

We're so grateful for this episode with Christine and her expertise. And we're grateful for you guys for listening and intentionally wanting to make your life and family's lives better. Make sure to go follow us on Instagram and not by chance parents, leave a comment on the post. Tell us how you want to make your family dinners more meaningful or even how you want to start implementing your own plan to just start doing a family dinner. We're excited to hear what you have to say