How to Land Book Reviews Without Burnout, Begging, or Bribes

Getting book reviews shouldn’t feel exhausting, awkward, or ethically murky. Yet many authors are stuck chasing influencers, sending endless cold emails, or quietly wondering why all that effort isn’t translating into real momentum.

In this episode, we break down a smarter, sustainable system for landing reviews that actually matter—the kind that build trust with readers, strengthen your Amazon presence, and keep working long after the outreach is done.

We start by resetting expectations around response rates and silence (because “no reply” isn’t failure). Then we show you where the real wins happen: micro and mid-tier reviewers, genre-aligned blogs, and community-driven creators who consistently outperform flashy, high-follower accounts. You’ll learn why long-tail review coverage is one of the most overlooked visibility tools authors have—and how stacking multiple mid-level yeses creates the social proof needed to move the needle.

From there, we get practical. We walk through the anatomy of a sub-200-word pitch that leads with fit, not favors; the small personalization signals that prove you’ve done your homework; and the mindset shift that changes everything: your dream doesn’t obligate someone else’s labor. That respect shows up in better responses—and better relationships.

We also cover smart follow-up strategies that add value instead of pressure, how to tailor your outreach for blogs, podcasts, and social platforms, and how to know when it’s time to outsource reviewer outreach so you can focus on writing instead of inbox triage.

If you want a steady cadence of credible reviews, stronger keyword visibility, and a review strategy built on trust—not desperation—this episode gives you the framework to do it right.

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Transcript

Why Fresh Reviews Still Matter

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast. It's Penny Stans here and Amy Cornell. And I'm I'm really excited about the show, Amy. I love talking about um I love talking about how to get reviewed.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

I know, me too, because I don't know if we've ever spoken to an author. Okay, that's not true. Everyone's gonna We get an author that's like I'm good on reviews, but then our response is you're never good on reviews. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Yeah. That's exactly true. In fact, I talked to somebody a couple weeks ago, and it was like, no, I really don't, I'm not really interested in getting more reviews. I'm like, really? Do not want more reviews. There is no such thing as too many reviews.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

No, never. Yeah, and not to go down a totally different topic, but for those of you thinking, like, I'm doing pretty good on reviews, that's awesome, that's amazing. But the the timing of reviews matters too. If all of your reviews are from a year ago and your book hasn't seen a review in a while, that is something that Amazon notices. The algorithm pays attention to that. So if you're wondering, I wanted to give you a little context for why we're saying you're never done getting reviews, because even if you have a bunch of them, it still works in your favor to get new reviews, even if it's just a small number throughout the year, because that tells Amazon people are still interested.

Listener Line And Show Framing

Silence, Response Rates, And Reality

TikTok Shifts And Platform Myths

SPEAKER_01 1:25

That is such a good point. That is a really, really good point. All right. So we're gonna dig into this. Um, I want to just remind you if you want to communicate with us, if you want to send us show ideas or thoughts on your shows, text the word podcast to 888-402-8940. And we love getting your messages. We get them all the time. We really, we, we that is something that we really enjoy um enjoy reviewing. Okay, so let's first, you know how I love my statistics. Um so I so I thought maybe we might want to lead with that. And just to kind of give you a little bit more context over the show, this isn't about how you have to turn into a full-time review seeking machine. But I think that, but I think that it makes sense for you to weave in, you know, getting reviewers and getting yourself out there into everything that you do. Even, and you know, this is even if you hire a company to do it, and we're gonna talk a little bit later in the show just about like, what if you just really hate this, the idea of doing this? You're like, oh my gosh. I know, and you know, Amy and Penny said I have to do this, but I really hate it. And we'll, and we'll we'll we'll talk about that. But first off, let's talk about silence because I I really want, I know that's not necessarily in the show notes, but I really want to lead with that because one of the biggest issues that I hear from authors is um I'm I wanna, you know, I'm tired of doing this because I'm not getting a response. So I think that it's worth mentioning that um response rates to cold pitches, and we're gonna talk about the difference between cold pitches and a warm pitch across social platforms average one to five percent. Wow. So so if you are, if you feel like people aren't paying attention to you, that you're not getting a response, they probably just they you know, silence is normal. It's not a referendum on your book, but it's it's it's all part of the process. I mean, we all we don't know, not every pitch that we send out gets a response rate. And you know, generally, just so you know, the average response rate for a PR and marketing firm. So, and by response rate, I mean everything that we send out media, reviewers, podcasters, all the things. Typically, the average response rate industry-wide is around 5%. I'm very pleased to say that our response rate is much higher than that because we have an awesome team and we have great relationships. But so, you know, the one to five percent is not too far off of, you know, off, you know, off the mark. Um, but the silence is really a big deal because authors, a lot of times they just feel like, you know, nobody's responding to me. I'm at this party by myself. What am I doing? And so hopefully we can ratchet that up for you a little bit. Um all right, so let's first talk about the myth of all reviewers are fair game, because that is absolutely not the truth. And I think it it's worth actually injecting in here at this point. As we are recording this, TikTok just went through some major changes. And I know the reason that it's worth mentioning is because TikTok is oftentimes like authors say, Oh, I, you know, TikTok saved reading and saved bookstores. And that's actually a very true statement for sure. But TikTok ownership has changed, and a lot of people are leaving TikTok. It's weird. I'm seeing this now all over social media. Now, I don't know if how this will shake out, if they will come back or what they're doing. What happened is is when the platform moved from China basically to US, um, the algorithm changed and a lot of the weird, so a lot of weird stuff kind of happened, right? And I think, you know, it's funny because I was talking about this to Amy in the green room. We're trying to move our email, and like we can't even move, like we're moving our email from one provider to another. We can't even move our email without it being glitchy, so I can't imagine like a platform like TikTok, like, right? Like because uh assuming that you're moving the hosting and you're moving all the other things that I don't even know in, you know, that I can't even wrap wrap my mind around. The other reason that a lot of creators are leaving TikTok is they're saying that it's because of the terms of service. But the terms of service, when you really, you know, so if you're seeing this in social media, just know that when you really whittle down the terms of service, they're the exact same as Facebook, they're the exact same as Instagram, with one exception, in that book talk says that it can uh follow your engagement with AI on TikTok. So if you liked the bunny video on the the bunnies on a trampoline video, TikTok's gonna know about it. That's basically what that what that means. Bunnies on the trampoline. I for a long time I really I was really bummed that that wasn't real, but I was like, wait, they're not really bouncing on the trampoline. I'm super sad, I'm super sad about that. Um okay, so Amy, talk you want to open us up about let's talk about where authors kind of get it wrong in terms of all reviewers being open to reviewing their book. Because you and I have multiple conversations about this.

Targeting Reviewers The Right Way

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yes, because it really, and we talk about this a lot that it's unfortunately very easy to waste both time and money on marketing when you don't really have a plan or an understanding of how it really works. You know, it feels productive to get things out the door, but if you're not, if it's not targeted and if it's not landing, then obviously, you know, that's again, time and money a lot of us don't have to waste, you know. Right. So where we see a lot of problems is reviewers who stopped reviewing a long time ago are getting pitched. And essentially a lot of times this happens because the websites may still exist, they may still have a presence. But a lot of people that have done this for a long time that are actual influencers are very intentional about updating their website, their socials, things like that, when their TBR to be red lists have gotten too long, when they're not currently taking submissions. And I can't tell you how much it bugs them to get submissions when they've been very intentional about saying, I'm not taking submissions, I'm not doing reviews right now, I'm on a break, I hope to be back. You know what I mean? So just completely not doing your due diligence to find out whether or not these people are still engaged and posting and reviewing books. Like that's a huge one. And yeah, I can't like tell you how much time authors have wasted just kind of blindly sending out reviewer requests and not really paying attention to who is on the receiving end and that that's a real person, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah, and and I mean that's that is that is a problem. I mean, basically, you know, um if somebody hasn't reviewed a book since 2022, right? They're they're they didn't reject you, they're just not reviewing anymore. And they they're they're not, it's not like they're gonna make an exception. So I think that's one of the things that authors get. Like they are, you get very sort of tunnel vision. Like, I'm super focused on getting these people to review the book, and um I this is really what I want. And and a lot of times that means also going after really big numbers, right? Accounts that have really big numbers. I will tell you that insta on Instagram in particular, accounts under 10,000 followers have two to three, two to three times higher engagement rates than accounts over 100K, which brings me to something. So, this is a talk that I gave years ago, actually. And um they are um we talked about micro influencers, right? So influencers who have like even under 5,000 followers who have so much more engagement. And this is something that we also look at in our company. Like we look for engagement. That is the biggest thing because the engagement is the thing that's gonna get your book noticed, not necessarily the numbers. And this happens a lot when you have like when you're pitching like big celebrities and things like that. Oh, they have a million followers. Oh, I want to get them. But then when you look at some of the engagement, um product reviews and stuff like that doesn't really get a lot of it, doesn't really get a lot of attention. So it's really kind of a waste of your time.

Micro Influencers Over Big Follows

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, a lot of those counts, and it it's that's why it's so perfect that you mentioned the TikTok thing, Penny. A lot of accounts on TikTok and Instagram serve that purpose. You know, they may be putting out interesting content that gets a lot of attention, but you also have to keep in mind that they are making money off of that, you know? So there are plenty of accounts that are basically they exist to make money off of their brand deals and collaborations and things like that, and good for them. But, you know, to your point, you really have to be mindful about are they really reaching my people? And are they focused on my audience? Or are they just really good at reaching a lot of people and making money? Because again, good for them, but not so good for you, you know?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that it's, you know, and and again, I know we said we've said this a couple of times, but not to get too far down the rabbit hole. We've had, I'm not a fan of pay-for-play. Like I we've we don't, if you're hiring our company to pitch for you, I'm not gonna send you a, you know, an uh an influencer who wants$5,000 to post a review because there's literally no ROI in that. Right. Yeah. I mean, just full stop. But the other piece of it though, too, is that sometimes sometimes authors will go after reviewers who review, they have they have a lifestyle brand, right? So they have a lifestyle brand and they review a lots and lots of different things, right? And one of the things that I noticed, so we had this actually happen, and this author really, really, really want had had gotten an offer from this lifestyle brand person and really wanted to do it. And I pointed out, I said, you know, when this particular lifestyle influencer is drinking coffee out of some new fashionable mug or something, not advertising the mug, but just like, oh, look at my new mug. Like we're talking, I don't know, 10,000 likes. But for every review that this influencer did, it was just a blip that was maybe 10 or so likes on those posts. So you you have to look at if you're paying that much money, which again, I don't recommend, then you'd better be getting as many likes and shares as a post on her new coffee mug. Just saying. Right. You know what I mean? So think about reviewers that you can actually, and this is not about us like Penny and you know, Penny and Amy are telling me not to shoot for the stars. That's not what we're saying. But mid-level reviewers are some, so they have uh smaller audiences, they have smaller audiences, real readers, they oftentimes have a higher trust. Um, and the other thing, and this is really big, is they're more likely to finish your book and actually post it. Because I've talked to a lot of authors who get, you know, they're like, oh my gosh, this person requested my book and then crickets, they never hear back from them, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. That happens a lot, and that kind of goes, you know, the big names, be careful with that too, because we get requests quite often where they say, I want to get my book to so and so. I want to get, and you know, it's because that person has they're famous, they have a big platform, they're well known, you know what I mean? Things like that. But if they don't one, a lot of them and don't even read books. Like, yes, we get requests for celebrity book clubs and things like that, but sometimes they're like, I just want this person to get my book. It's like, well, if you want to mail that book, go for it. But we are not gonna recommend that that person get a copy of your book because it just doesn't fit what they do. You know, and you again, you can chase a lot of things that are never going to come to fruition because it doesn't work with what that individual does, what they've made their brand out of, what they focus on. You know, so and again, now that Penny said, don't shoot for the stars. Okay, okay, I'll say it again. We're not saying that, but at the same time, assuming you're going to be the exception to the rule. Unfortunately, we see that a lot. So just be very mindful. You know, maybe throw a couple of them in there, fine, if that's how you want to spend your time, but don't make your whole review pitching plan around this idea that you're going to be the exception to the rule and somebody that doesn't review books is going to just review your book. You know what I mean?

Review Stacking And Social Proof

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Right, exactly. And the other piece of it though, too, is that I'm a huge fan of review stacking, right? So if you're starting with mid-level reviewers, for example, and you're just getting lots and lots of requests. I mean, if your goal, so we had an author, I think it was last year, and she said, My only goal in hiring you is for you to get pitch me to pitch my book to the Joe Roven podcast. And it wasn't even anything that I think that particular show would have covered, right? And Amy and I, you and I talked about this, but also the author was fresh out of the gate, brand new, all the things. And I suggested, I said, you know, let us build your platform. Let us get you some, because this were book was, you know, newly born, no reviews, anything. There's nothing wrong with having big podcasters, big shows, big, you know, influencers as your long-term goal. But review stacking is crucial to getting new visibility because people like what other people like, right? The other piece to consider too is mid-tier creators. So anywhere from one to, you know, under 20,000 followers and generate 60 to 80% of total engagement in book communities, specifically on Instagram. That is staggering when you think about that. So if you're listening to this and you're like, wow, I had a review from somebody who had only 1,000 followers and I turned it down, go back to that person and apologize, send them a gift basket and send them your book. Because these people, you know, and the thing about it is too, is that readers are four times more likely to act on recommendations from accounts that they perceive as peers and not celebrities, which is one of the reasons why, you know, oh, okay, sure, sure, you want your celebrity to hold up your whatever it is that you're selling, right? I mean, that would be amazing. But somebody who you feel is your peer, like, and I know this is sort of a silly example, but when Amy recommends something to me, right, as my peer, I'm like, oh yeah, that's really cool. Cause this, blah, blah, blah, right? When you follow somebody like that on social media and you generally like what they like, you're like, oh, I'm gonna totally try that out. That sounds amazing, as opposed to a celebrity who has like a gajillion dollars who can afford anything, and you're like, well, maybe that works, maybe that doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

You may mean right, exactly. I 100% agree. There is a a quality there that in a trust level, because we are all so inundated with things to buy, spend our money on, spend our time on, you know. So it really doesn't, it there has been a shift in who people really value for their opinion.

unknown 16:47

Yeah.

Genre Bloggers And Long-Tail SEO

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And it's it's important to keep that in mind. That the the easy one is the shiny object, you know, the big famous person. But in reality, you know, take a step back. It's like, is that how you operate? Because if it's not how you operate, it's likely not how most of your, you know, target readers operate either. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

So uh genre-specific bloggers, Amy, why don't you open up this awesome portal? Because I this is something that we really love too.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense to get specific about who your readers are. We've done shows on that about figuring out who your market is and how valuable that is across the board in literally everything you do, you know, from your branding to your marketing to your pitching, know who your readers are, know your genre. You know what I mean? And focus on people that are actually invested in the kind of books that you write. You know, it sounds so obvious, but it's, you know, these tend to not be, they may not have as big a platform or as big of a following. And I think that's why they get overlooked a lot. You know, we've already discussed how that happens, how it's easy to skip these people. But the reality is they are actually invested, they know what they're doing, they read books like yours. And, you know, pat yourself on the back. We remind our clients about this all the time. If you get a request for a book from a genre-specific blogger, you should feel really damn good about yourself. Yeah. Because they do this. Like this is what they do. Like they are, you know what I mean, immersed in this world of these kind of books. And if they think, if they're interested in your book and they want to spend their time reading through it and potentially giving you a review or giving you some coverage, that's pretty incredible. And the bonus is their followers are your people. This is definitely a quality over quantity thing here.

Warm Outreach And Relationship Building

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that the other piece of it though, too, is that um the longevity of blogs. And and when I I teach a class on social when we we talk about social media, and when you look at the longevity, the burn rate, right, of how long something actually stays visible in social media, right? So TikTok has an instant burn rate, which means that if your video doesn't take traction instantaneously, then it's basically gone, right? I want to say Instagram, I should know this off the top of my head, but I want to say that Instagram is like four days. Blogs have something like an eight to nine month visibility window. Right. Incredible. Yeah, it's really it it is really, really incredible. They also, you know, people, you know, authors a lot of times say that they want to get ranking on Google. And I I don't necessarily discourage that, but obviously people don't typically go to Google to search for books, but it's still not a bad idea to to come up for your keywords, too, right? So, you know, Google Google finds those on these websites, like best cozy mysteries, best historical fiction reviews, etc. So um I don't discount, I know blogs sound like we just took our DeLorean back to 1985, but they are they are really, really, they're a really good outlet for authors for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

And I love this next one that we that put a note on, because we've talked about this before in other in different contexts, but reviewers that you've already engaged with, and the obvious version would be like if they've reviewed for you before, if this is not your first book, naturally go back to those people. I shouldn't actually skip over that. If you've had people review your book before, keep those relationships up. You know, make sure that you, you know, thank them for the review, follow their accounts, things like that. Because when you release your next book, they should be at the top of your list of people that you want to let know that you've released something new. But on top of that, we've talked about this is kind of part of your brand. You know, you need to engage with, network with, be involved in your topic or your genre. You should already be following people, you should already be commenting on things, you should be reading reviews on genre-specific blogs. You know, be involved because it shows that you're invested. So when it's your turn to ask for a review or to pitch somebody, there's a very good chance they know that you're already a part of their circle. You know what I mean? You've commented on their things, you've shared their things, you've read their work. It makes a huge difference. You know, so be engaged in your genre, in your topic, be out there, be active. Don't just show up when you need something. Maybe that's a cleaner way to say it.

Pitches That Work: Clarity And Brevity

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah. That's, and you know, I'm really glad that you brought this up because uh we did a whole show on um networking and when the best time to network was is when you don't have anything to sell, right? And and we talked, and I and I don't remember the title of the show. I shouldn't know the title of the show, but it was um book marketing versus brand marketing. Actually, I think that's what it was called. So brand marketing is the thing. You do before you have a book out, and this is what Amy is kind of referring to, right? So when you are like you're commenting, you're engaging, you're getting to know these, you know, these reviewers, warm pitches just and you know me, I love my little factoids and stuff like that. I'm such a nerd. Warm pitches see a 35 to 50 percent higher open rates across email and direct messages. That's amazing. So if you're lamenting the fact that you're not getting any responses, it's probably it could also, you know, maybe you're targeting the wrong person, maybe your pitch isn't tight enough, etc. But it could also be that they just don't know you. Right. So that's you know, and you don't need to get, you know, this you're not looking to make friends, you just building a smart strategic relationship.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Right. Yes. Absolutely. I'm excited about this next section. Do you want to start? You want to take it. Yeah, I mean, because I think this is so important. This is one of those things that I think hopefully for our listeners, you value too, because I think we talk a lot about best practices, which is helpful. Obviously, there's some framework. But I love when we get a chance to actually dig into. So, for those of you listening, like, okay, great, I'm gonna go back to my desk. What do I actually do? Like you've told me, like best practices, do's, don'ts, what to look out for. What about the execution? So let's talk about some things that reviewers actually respond positively to. Yeah, yeah. I love that. What works? So clarity. You know, assume they don't have a lot of time because, and I hate to say it, but you also should assume that you might be the 10th pitch they got that day, or maybe even that week. But either way, it's a lot. You're not the only one writing them, you know. So respect their time, be very clear and make it obvious from the jump what your genre or topic is, what the tone of the book is, and why the book fits them. And this kind of circles back to what we were talking about: like, know who you're pitching, know what they like, know what they read, pay attention to whether they're accepting books. Like these are small details that take you just a few minutes of scanning to figure out, but it will make your pitch 10 times better.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, exactly. Okay, go for it. No, can I just interject like a weird little factoid in this that I that I found? Reviewers typically decide between five and ten seconds whether a pitch fits them. I actually think that number is kind of high. Like, yeah, I'd be shocked if they how many times, like how many times have you opened an email and you're just like move and you move right? Oh, right away. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that number is, I think that number's low. Anyway, I just wanted no, go on.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I just I just wanted to throw that in there because that's perfect because I I love that's something that we can all wrap our minds around. Because truly, if you have to, and we talk about this for point of sale too, and we've done Amazon shows and talking about why it's so that first impression is so important and why it's you know, not just utilizing everything on your retail page, but how to utilize utilize it strategically. Yeah. Because nobody is going to take the time to figure out whether your book is a good fit. They they literally want you to hit them over the head with it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Like if they have to spend time, that is immediately you've lost them. Well, you know, because they are getting books that are a good fit in their inboxes. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

So confusion is an automatic no.

Personalization That Gets Replies

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yes. If somebody's confused, you're absolutely right. It's an automatic no. And we again, this is something we talk about a lot in book descriptions, but it's amazing how that's applicable across the board with so much of what you do. Don't bury the lead. Don't assume, like, don't save the best stuff for the end of your email, right, Penny. Like you really want to get to the meat of why I think you will love this at the very beginning. Yes. And give them the if the, you know, kind of stagger your other background information that might be helpful or appealing to them toward the end of the email. And again, I'm not talking about paragraph upon paragraph upon paragraph, but like make it obvious. This is why you'll love it. This is why it will benefit you. I've been paying attention. That should be what you start your pitch with. And then give them anything else that they should have, you know, like your website, maybe a quick summary, things like that. They will get to that part if they're interested, but you gotta interest them first. And it has to be about them.

Boundaries: No Guilt, No Entitlement

SPEAKER_01 26:19

And we've done whole shows on pitching. So I want to make sure that we talk about that. Go back through. I want to say we did at least two of them last year. Short pitches also consistently perform better, right? So pitches over 200 words have a just a mental drop-off. And I know, like sometimes people will, it's really kind of weird. People will pitch us to review their book, which has nothing to do with their blog, on our blog, right? And their pitches are usually long. I mean, Amy, like I barely get first off, it's not relevant, and I barely get past the first paragraph. So that's two strikes against you. Your pitch is like three pages long, and it's, you know, it's not really relevant. So be respectful of their time. Short pitches, get to the point. Um, lead with an elevator pitch. Again, we did a whole show on elevator pitches too. So definitely go back to that. Um, the other thing that I want to mention, I am a huge fan of this, and we did a test on this for an author who had no platform where um we so I pitched from her, I pitched as her. So we set up a fake email account. So nobody knew her, right? So I pitched as her. I personalized the pitches, right? So I added some some kind of personal tidbit in there, right? So for example, I saw that you just got a dog named Library. That is so cute. That tells the reviewer, I have been on their site, I'm paying attention, I didn't just blindly pitch. She got an 80% return rate on these reviews. Which technically, right? So, yes, there are contacts for sure. But every single pitch was personalized. Because I wanted to just test this and say, okay, this is an unknown author. This is her first book. Um, let's see what kind of a turnaround we can get. So, you know, don't like this isn't about, oh, please, please, please, please, please review my book because reviewers, that's a big turnoff, but something that just says that you're paying attention, right? I loved your podcast on such and such. I love the review that you did on such and such, or mentioned something personal, like in in this case, the reviewer had just gotten this dog and it was all over her, you know, it was all over her page. So it was worth mentioning. Um, but I think you really have to make like let people know that you're paying attention. And you know what's interesting is that we get a lot of pitches for our our podcast. We get a lot of pitches for guests on our podcast, right? And some of these pitches are really good. Like some of these pitches are like, like we just got one, I think it was yesterday, Amy, where they said, Oh, I listened to your show on A plus content, and here's what I think was great. And here's where if I'm a guest on your show, that I can elaborate. And I'm like, Well, that's one of two. I mean, I I loved I loved the pitch, right? I thought they did a great job with it, and it wasn't too long, but we don't have guests on the show.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Like we don't enough. So can you imagine a third person trying to cram their way in here? No way.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, well, the yeah, right, exactly. So, you know, I think that I love the personalization.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

But maybe no generic flattery, yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

No gener, right, exactly. Not no g no, no, no generic flattery.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

I know. I love this. There's a big difference between I love your page and I noticed you review a lot of cozy mysteries with older protagonists. This might be a good fit. Like, how specific is that? But it really doesn't take a long time. I know, you know, we've made a whole show out of this, so maybe it seems like a big project, but it really doesn't. And this again goes back to why it makes sense to actively engage with these kind of people and engage with your genre ongoing, because when it does come time to pitch, all this stuff is a lot simpler. You know what I mean? You're not starting from scratch going, who writes about my book? Who does the reviews? Well, you know what I mean? Like if you're actively engaged in your genre or your topic, and you're keeping up with things like this, a lot of this will come more naturally and it'll be a lot easier to vet who's appropriate and who's not. And these personalizations take seconds. You know, we're not talking about a ton of research time here.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

No, that's absolutely true. And I think that, you know, start by following five, just start if this seems overwhelming to you, start by following five people, right? Follow five. And because the thing that will happen is all of these typically, right, book people are connected to other book people, right? And so at as you're following these talk, you're like, oh, this is another account I might follow. And when you follow people and you're actively engaging with them, adding these, you know, personalized details, adding these thoughtful details to your pitches, they're just gonna be, you know, you're gonna be like, oh, I remember that from like last week, or they said something on the, you know, and I really love that. That's gonna be easy. So it's not about you having to become like a PI and go through all of their accounts because you're already following them. So you already know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yes. And Penny, I think you should take this next one because you definitely had thoughts about this in the green room. Um the emotional manipulation. You had a great line save that I really liked.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Oh, the emotional manipulation. Let me get let me get back to that. Yeah, sorry. I'm sorry. No, I know we're we're we're a little bit all over the place, so forgive us. Your dream does not obligate their labor.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Yes. I'm like, this is one of those say it louder for people in the back moments, I think, honestly.

Smart Follow-Up Without Stalking

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah. So I think that it that is where it, and this is, you know, and I and I get it. So we talk about this a lot. When authors become so emotionally invested in their work, that's a good and bad thing, right? They're taking every silence very personally, and they are perceiving going after these reviewers, whether they're bloggers or or social media people, as their right to passage, right? That is it is their they're entitled to get this review and have this person review them. And basically, we're just here to say, eat your broccoli, you're not entitled to anything. Sorry. Do we just did we just lose like every single one of our listeners? I think we just I just told everybody. I know, or they've already like skipped ahead 30 seconds, maybe. Well, but and you know what's funny is Apple Podcasts is now doing this where they where they they you can pop into different segments. So please don't skip this because it's really important. We know that we're killing your killing your buzz and everything here, but um okay, so very true though.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I I'm glad that we covered this though, because it it's it I think a lot of times authors certainly don't do it on purpose. You know what I mean? That's that's not the goal. They're not there to guilt reviewers into reviewing for them. But you've put in a lot of time and effort, and we get it. And you want to see some, you want to see that recognized. But you have to just stay realistic about how this really works. And it'll make your pitches better, it'll make your engagement better, it'll make how you approach this much better if you keep a realistic mindset. This is not, you know, this is not just the next stage and something to check off the list that comes very easily. Like this, this is hard work and there's a lot of competition. But if you approach it, knowing that that's the road you're going down, you'll make smarter decisions, you know what I mean? You'll be a lot more resilient because that's it, that's what it takes. You know, it does take a little bit of resiliency to stay, to stay at this. Right. Exactly. And I counts.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

And I think that, you know, when it comes to what to stop doing immediately, um silence is not judgment. So I think that's a big, that's a big, that's a big piece of this, is that let's just throw that out the window. Right. So get rid of that, that, you know, monkey on your back, so to speak, about that the fact that nobody wants you because they've just been silent. It's possible that you didn't send them a pitch that was relevant, or you pitch somebody who doesn't know you, or whatever. So common mistakes. Uh, what to stop doing immediately. The first one is silence is unequal judgment. Um, Amy, you and I talked about this. We're gonna kind of skip through these quickly. Um so I'm gonna take number three just because I I feel very strong feelings about this. Oh, yeah. Following up too aggressively. So we do lots and lots of follow-up. And when people ask me, like when I talk to authors on the phone, they're like, well, how do you do the follow-up? And I said, Well, it's somewhere between professional and I'm not a stalker. And you know what I mean? So uh we've and I gotta tell you, so I think everybody is kind of in this boat right now. We get a lot of spam and weird stuff. And when somebody puts in their email, I'm just floating this back to the top of your inbox. I use something called Sane Box, which is great. And I have there's an envelope called Black Hole, and I immediately, because every one of your future follow-ups, you aggressive weirdo who's emailing me every day, I'm not even gonna see that right now. So it's basically like junk emailing somebody. Um, don't follow up too aggressively. What's aggressive? Following every day. I mean, Amy, do you have any other thoughts on that? Because I know I have very obviously very strong feelings about this.

Customize The Ask To The Outlet

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah, and I would say, you know, it sometimes it depends on what your genre or topic is too. I would say, you know, for nonfiction authors listening, it's really you can be strategic about your follow-up too. And, you know, we actually see a lot of responses from follow-up, but we're very thoughtful about our follow-up. And typically it's it's exactly the opposite of what, you know, Penny just said. Like, just in case you didn't see this, like that is not what we say. We almost always follow up, especially for nonfiction, and reiterate at a current angle, a new topic, something else that may work for them that serves their needs as well. You know what I mean? Like we we we make the follow-up about them, not about us. Maybe that's a clearer way to say it. Yeah. You know, it really does make a big difference. And I think for fiction, I think being realistic about their time and what you're asking of them, you know, and just saying, I'd love to send you a copy of the book for consideration at a later date. Like sometimes you have to accept that you may not get that review on Amazon in the next 30 days, you know, right. But that it will still benefit you to be in this person's orbit and to politely, you know, maybe take the offer down a notch and say, I would love to send you a book, you know, but for consideration at a later date, I so appreciate your time. You know what I mean? Like tone it down a little bit when you do the follow-up so they know what your intentions are. You respect their time, and you'd be surprised at how many, you know, people respond positively to that and go, okay, this this author understands what I'm I'm up against. I I was a little intrigued by the book. I'm super busy. Maybe I'll just respond and say, yeah, send me a copy and I'll let you know when I get to it.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

And that's an awesome in the door. That's an awesome in the door. And you know, we actually see a lot of great responses when we do thoughtful follow-up. Yeah. So a lot of times it's in the follow-up that you're gonna get that yes, because maybe they missed it the first time, they didn't see it, you know. And typically what we'll do is we will um uh we'll, you know, sort of revise our pitch a little bit, maybe change it up somewhat and you know, repitch them as opposed to saying, hey, I'm just floating this up to the top of your inbox. Again, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Or circle back. Didn't didn't like we bury circle back last year. That that was a thing for a while.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Oh my gosh, yes. If you put circle back in an email, I literally just won't respond. Um so what else have we, what else, what did we miss, Amy? What did we not talk? Did we hit all the points?

When To Outsource Reviewer Outreach

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, I mean, I wanted to touch on real quick about because like Penny mentioned, we've done shows on pitching, so we don't want to go too far down. Sure. But sending the same pitch everywhere, I do want to touch on what's appropriate and what's not appropriate in terms of replic replication and kind of working smarter and not harder. So there's nothing wrong with having the meat of your pitch really well defined and finessed and your elevator pitch in there and everything set up really well. But this kind of connects back to what we were talking about about the personalization. You don't just want to take the same message and send it across the board to everybody on your list. You want to make sure you're adding that personalization, that personal touch. And you also, and this is something that gets overlooked a lot, you also want to make sure that your ask is realistic for who you're sending it to and makes sense to them. You know, you don't want to ask, for most people, asking a podcast for a review is not appropriate. Podcasts don't typically work that way. Some of the fiction ones do, but even then it's more complex than that. You know, so you have to keep in mind what makes sense for them, what will serve them, what do they already do? Maybe it's an interview, maybe it's a feature, you know, maybe it's an excerpt, maybe it is a review. But be really smart about what you're offering and what you're recommending. Maybe it's something, a collab on social, you know, if they're more on the social side on social media. Maybe you say, I'd love to provide some tips or I'd love to provide this or that. It shows that you're really thinking about what works for them and what works for their audience versus just sending out a pitch asking every single person for a review. Yes, this show is about reviews, but at the same time, if you are going to knock on their door, this is your first impression, make it count, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, exactly. And I, yeah, and and I think that um customizing your review because sometimes, you know, we have books that have multiple uh audiences, right? So maybe there's there is a there's a there's a uh a parent, there's a teacher, and those reviews are not gonna look the same.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

I mean those those pitches rather are not gonna look the same.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Exactly. Yep, your messaging needs to be tweaked a little bit. Again, they need to be they need to feel seen. If your pitch is generic, they will know that you're not going to trick anybody.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Right. Exactly, exactly. Um, and then I think go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

No, I I was really jazzed about the show because it's something, again, that we talk about all the time. It sounds like such a simple topic, and in a lot of ways it is, but it's also so relevant across the board to every author out there.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

It is relevant, yeah, it is relevant across the board. And I think that, you know, I mean, I sometimes, and this isn't a pitch for us, but I mean, sometimes you get to a point where you're just like, you know, when should I get help? Um, I think that if we're if reviewer outreach just feels very not in your lane, if if you listen to this and and then you go and you try it and it feels draining and you're just not doing it, then it's really time to outsource it. And it doesn't necessarily mean giving up control. I mean, I think that um when whenever we're doing, you know, whenever we're doing pitches for authors, I mean, we are helping you to build relationships with these influencers. And sometimes, you know, authors work with us one time and then they feel like they're off and running, and that's great. And some work with us, you know, for multiple books, and when we're lucky enough, even all of their books. But I think that you also have to decide, I mean, and I'll I'll tell you this, just as 25 years ago when I was first first in business, I did not have a bookkeeper, right? I am terrible at math, I hate math, all the things, and I didn't want to outsource it to a bookkeeper because I felt like I was like, you know, I lose control kind of of that part of the company. When I did outsource that, that opened up so much time and so much mental space that I could focus on other things. So that's also another consideration, too. Hire out what you're not good at in, you know, whenever you can.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

So that's my that's my speech. Very hard, Penny, in a different perspective. You know, sometimes it's just getting out of your own head, right? Getting a new perspective, especially if you feel like you've been hitting a wall for a while. We get a lot, a lot of authors that reach out to us that are just like, okay, here's the white flag, right? Like I've been at this for a while, some wins, some losses, and they just recognize that it's time to change it up and get a different perspective. And you might be surprised at what comes from that.

Closing, Review CTA, And Resources

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Right, exactly. And you know, and I love the different, I love especially love the different perspective uh because I think that we get too close to our own work. I know I certainly do, right? Um, we get too close to our own work and we are, and sometimes we are not as objective as I think that we sometimes need to be. And again, I say we because we all do it.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Every one of us. Yep. Yeah, we all do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

So it takes a village. Yeah, it yeah, it absolutely does. It definitely, it definitely takes a village. All right. Well, we hope that you have enjoyed the show. We love your show ideas. Text the word podcast to 888 402 8940. And we also love reviews. So thank you for all of those who recently reviewed the podcast. And Amy has put in some instruction in the show notes on where and how you can post your reviews on podcast outlets because it's not they don't always make it easy. But thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for being a fan of the show, for being part of our tribe, and we will see you next week. Bye bye.