Next Level University

#1359 - Therapy Is Hard… But Important - Kevin Interviews Alan

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Share episode

While therapy can be challenging, it's important to remember that the process of self-improvement is rarely smooth sailing. There may come a point where you feel disheartened and question the effectiveness of therapy. Perhaps you experienced a panic attack during a session or confronted uncomfortable truths about your personality. It's not uncommon to find yourself discussing the same topics repeatedly without feeling like you're making progress. However, it's crucial not to give up.

In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros shed light on the significance of therapy as Kevin interviews Alan about his personal journey and the transformative impact therapy had on him. Even when therapy feels overwhelming, remember that persevering through it yields invaluable rewards. By sticking with therapy, you gradually alleviate the weight on your mind, acquire effective tools for navigating future challenges, and develop a heightened sense of self-worth. So, even in those moments when therapy feels like the absolute worst, it's essential to stay committed and trust the process.


Link mentioned:
Next Level Nation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700

______________________ 

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com   

The best way to track your habits is here! Download the app: Optimal - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/optimal/   

_______________________

Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume

_________________

We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on LinkedIn, Instagram, or via email

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

__________________



Show notes:
[1:31] What has Alan learned about external success and internal understanding of self?
[4:29] How has Alan’s definition of self-improvement changed?
[6:40] What is the number one thing that Alan understands about himself today that he didn’t before?
[10:15] Nathan expresses his appreciation for the invaluable coaching services he received from Alan
[12:10] What was his day like on the first day of therapy?
[16:10] What was his first thought after therapy?
[17:57] How often does Alan cry?
[21:42] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

I used to think self-improvement was external stuff, and it's maybe to a degree it is, but now more than ever, i think self-improvement is the improvement of self internally first.

Speaker 2:

I spent the first 25 years of my life focused on STEM, science, technology, engineering and math, and I do believe those are the most important if you want to be successful in the economy, but if you want to be successful in life, personal development all the way.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Next Level University. I am your host, Kevin Paul Mary.

Speaker 2:

And I am your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Speaker 1:

At Next Level University. We believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Speaker 2:

We bring you seven episodes per week to help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth.

Speaker 1:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, for free. Welcome to Next Level University, Next Level Nation. welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we teach you how to level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. I'm still using my table mic as I slap it around. We hope you enjoyed the latest episode, number 1358. I was interviewed by Alan Today for episode number 1359,. I am going to interview Alan Now. this is going to be a 19-ish minute episode because we have a teen training right after this, And now I'm going to introduce you to Alan. Alan, please be concise and keep the quotes to a minimum, if possible. So you have always represented someone to me who has a very, very high level of belief that they could create anything they wanted externally. You recently have started therapy. I guess not recently, probably what? six months ago. What have you learned over the last, let's just say, two years about external success and internal understanding of self?

Speaker 2:

The first thing that I would say that comes to mind is that the internal work is more important for success in the real world. And what I mean by the real world is your intimate world, your intimate relationship, your fulfillment, how you feel about yourself when you're by yourself. I think that the external work is more skill acquisition and a deeper understanding of sales, marketing, branding, business systems, processes. You ever heard of STEM, s-t-e-m? so science, technology, engineering and math. I personally believe those are the most important for the current economy when it comes to wealth creation in the external world. So if you think of some of the top business leaders in the world, they were extremely strong in STEM but not necessarily strong in the inner work, which, quite frankly, i think is one of the reasons why so many successful business leaders end up divorced. I think part of it is because starting a business is unreasonably difficult and requires a ton of time and effort, but I think another part of it is just emotional a lack of emotional maturity, a lack of emotional intelligence, a lack of emotional regulation.

Speaker 2:

And when I first met Emilia, i told her I didn't know how I knew this. This was intuitive, but I basically said I'm going to teach you the external world and you're going to teach me the internal world. And she's like what? All right, like holy crap. And I got her a necklace when I asked her to be with me and it's two infinity symbols with a diamond in the middle And it's her genius zone and my genius zone, both kind of combining, and that's what it's been for the last almost four years now It's been. She just teaches me about me always, and I she's the one who got me to go to therapy, so that's without her.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I would have embarked on the inner journey as much. The last piece I would say is I spent the first 25 years of my life focused on STEM, science, technology, engineering and math, and I do believe those are the most important if you want to be successful in the economy. But if you want to be successful in life personal development all the way, self improvement, inner work, therapy And if you think you want to coach for bigger results, you actually need a therapist. And if you think you want a therapist to do more inner work, you probably need a coach.

Speaker 1:

How is your, how is your definition of self-improvement changed? Because even I was gonna ask you that of. I used to think self-improvement was external stuff, and it's maybe to a degree it is, but now more than ever I think self-improvement is the improvement of self internally first.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I think that self-improvement comes down to these three things. Think of self-improvement at the center of a triangle. Kevin, i was gonna use a triangle.

Speaker 3:

I'm obsessed with triangles.

Speaker 2:

Bottom left is your identity, which is who you are, who you were, who you are now and who you aspire to be. Okay, the top of the triangle triad is the process. This is your experience, this is the how-to, this is your day-to-day life, what you do, what you create. and then the third is your goals Your goals, which is what you're shooting for, what you're shooting to manifest, and in the center is self-improvement. In other words, who you become as a whole is entirely predicated on who you believe you are, the processes you deploy in your life and the goals you shoot for. And when you and I first met, i had a lot of clarity on the goals, but not a lot of clarity on my identity. You had a lot of clarity on your identity, even though it was limiting and you had no goals. and so we've driven to five and now we are the full triangle. I had some goals, yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah totally.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, you had some bodybuilding and stuff. Yeah goodness, this was an interview, the most developed in the area that you had goals.

Speaker 1:

This was an interview where I invited you on and I didn't know you. I would have just canned you right there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this guy ain't the one little illegal in this one, but I do want to make this point quickly. You had clear goals in bodybuilding and that's where you were the most developed and that's also where you had the most self-belief.

Speaker 1:

How fascinating. Going back to our previous episode, what is the number one thing you understand about yourself internally today that you didn't before, and why is important?

Speaker 2:

I didn't understand how deeply fearful I am Of what. I think, that what I used to do is I used to look around at people who were scared to try stuff, people who were scared to. I remember I used to like party at night and then give a presentation in front of 150 people the next day on STEM, science, technology, engineering and math, and I would crush it and I never understood why other people were so petrified of that. What I realize now is I'm actually deeply fearful as well, and I think every human being is deeply fearful. I think a lot of people don't identify as that because they're fearful in a different way. I'm deeply fearful of offending people. I'm deeply fearful of bullies. I'm deeply fearful of being more capable than everyone else and having them hate me for it. I'm deeply fearful of standing up to my past friends. I'm deeply fearful of being me. In a way, it's almost like I had this one client once who's just so beyond extraordinary It's not even funny And she had a business partner And the business partner was just a lot less capable than her, quite frankly. I mean it's particularly in the external world, but in general not nearly as growth-oriented, not nearly as capable, not nearly as brilliant, not nearly as educated, right, whatever. It's all good, but this person basically used to say, yeah, it's like I go behind the scenes And I squat a thousand pounds by myself all day, every day, and then I go around her and I pretend that I only squat 135. And it's because I'm so afraid to lose the relationship.

Speaker 2:

My deepest fear, I think, is loneliness. I think it's being alone, Not being alone like I don't mind being alone. I think it's not being liked And I think this is fascinating. I didn't realize this in the past, but I now understand it and I've studied Kevin for six years now. Kevin's a very likable guy, genuinely. You always have been and you always will be, and I found this fascinating.

Speaker 2:

I had this kind of visceral moment of like oh, my God, i'm very capable and competent and very, you know whatever, intelligent or whatever, and even that I'm like lessening it. I'm very intelligent And I do know that inside of me It's just when I say it, people don't like me. So I think, deep down, i'm fearful of not being liked. I think I've always wanted to be liked like you, but I think you've always wanted to be as competent as me.

Speaker 2:

And I think that it's fascinating because our desires in life are, in a way, the opposite of our fear. And if we can just have the courage to be ourselves, i won't be as liked, but I'll be way more competent. And if you have the courage to be yourself, you will be more liked, and you'll. It's like you're so afraid. You were so afraid to look bad, so you didn't try and didn't get better. Now, when you face that fear, you're going to become more competent. You're going to become so competent and be likable For me. I was never concerned about not being competent. That doesn't land for me, but being liked, it feels impossible.

Speaker 3:

My name is Nathan Schwarman. I'm from Lawrence Kansas. I've been a client of Allen's for coming on two years now And I really can't recommend his program enough. Allen's always there for me with great advice and holding me accountable every step of the way And really leading by example. I've grown a lot in his program, but he's grown alongside with me, so I'd really recommend joining up on the program and joining the community.

Speaker 1:

So the interesting thing is this is the interesting thing You were always liked by the people that didn't like me. I mean, i tell people this all the time. Somebody asked me one time they said how'd you guys get mentored by David Meltzer for free? And I was like, oh, it was simple, allen Allen. It was Allen And they're like well, what did you do? And I was like I don't know how to explain it, it's just Allen Like people that are Dave Meltzer's a genius.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's too much to agree.

Speaker 1:

Definitely. He recognizes he recognizes the genius in you. I would never attract David Meltzer Now. I wouldn't Fair, 100% fair, of course.

Speaker 2:

Even that I'm scared to say out loud.

Speaker 1:

I understand.

Speaker 2:

Because I don't want you to feel worse about yourself.

Speaker 1:

I don't. I love myself, i know Which is good.

Speaker 2:

But you got to understand a lot of people are deeply insecure about their own lack of capabilities.

Speaker 1:

Well, that would be my question to you. Is trying to get people who aren't supposed to like you lessening your ability to get people that are supposed to like you to like you? Can you tell? this is like lighting me up so incredibly much to be able to do an interview.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, man.

Speaker 1:

With you. I don't necessarily want to interview anybody else, but I would like to make this maybe something we do semi-freak Dude.

Speaker 2:

you know I'm game. These have been very powerful.

Speaker 1:

I enjoy this very much. What was your thought pre-therapy Your first therapy session? I always try to tell a story of my first therapy session. I think I do a pretty good job. That was seven, eight years ago. I don't even remember when it was. What was your day like the day you had your first therapy session?

Speaker 2:

Well, for me I think I'll. so Emilia basically said I've had a therapist since I was 12. She has a therapist named Christine and she would always talk about her breakthroughs, she would always talk about all these awesome things and she has this board of directors concept of like books are on her board of directors and her therapist and her coach she's a corporate coach at Alchemy's and she and then she has me in her corner. So we all have sort of a board of directors and the analogy is every company, so like Apple has a board of directors where you get a bunch of perspectives from a bunch of different people on where the company should go and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Qualified people.

Speaker 2:

Qualified. Yeah, not always, though.

Speaker 1:

Well, not always.

Speaker 2:

Right, and that's, you know, it's getting more diverse. It used to be a lot of Caucasian men and now it's getting more diverse, which is good, but anyways. So she was talking about it and she's like basically I think you're leaving a lot on the table by not doing therapy, because a lot of people think therapy is you know, it's I'm broken, so I need to go get fixed, and I think that that's. I understand that mentality. You know your car breaks down and you need to go get it fixed by a mechanic, and it is similar in some ways.

Speaker 2:

But there's a deep rooted insecurity, particularly in men, where I always joke, i say men can't even ask for directions, never mind get a therapist Right. And I remember that part of me was like so insecure, like I can't do it on my own, why do I? Why do I need a therapist? Like I know this stuff. I've studied personal development, read thousands of books and blah, blah, blah. So you have all these stories, these narratives, and so for me it was on the whiteboard for a while. We have a big whiteboard in our home and we write down the things we intend to do, and sometimes we erase them and never do them, but that was one that stayed on there for a minute. Man, get a therapist. So I reached out to Carol she's my therapist and she went to.

Speaker 2:

But I was very picky. When you let someone into the center of your castle, you have to make sure it's not a Trojan horse. You have to make sure it's someone, because I have a lot of pain associated with taking guidance, advice from people who are less aware. So it's a very vulnerable place to be. But if you're with someone you trust, who you know is competent, and so I chose someone who went to WPI just like me and I knew was brilliant statistically speaking she's brilliant, And so I think, number one, you got to have the right person.

Speaker 2:

What was the day like? to answer the original question, i would say there was anxiety before it and then liberation after. And I was thinking about this earlier and I didn't even know you were going to. I didn't connect consciously. You were going to ask me about therapy, even though I did know you end up doing that, which I was thrilled about. But I had this moment of like everyone should have a therapist, everyone, because it's so good, oh, it's so good. If it's the right therapist, you're basically in a private space to reprocess your life with someone who understands the human condition at a pretty deep level, and they're just going to ask you questions about you and then you're going to go and revisit your past. This is the best analogy. If you watch Finding Nemo as an adult, you realize it's even better than when you were a kid. That's what you're going to realize about yourself.

Speaker 1:

What was your first thought after therapy, like immediately after Zoom Zoom room closes. Then what?

Speaker 2:

Uh, so I have an IFS therapist Internal Family Systems which is, if you've ever seen the Pixar movie Inside Out, it's kind of like that. We have all these different parts driving us and I'm writing an article that's dropping next week on this, actually, but anyways. So my first thought was I went and thanked Emilia. That was the first thing, and she celebrated with me behind the scenes, which was really cute, and the rest of it was, i call it, shaking the snow globe. So this podcast I actually have a training after this with the team and the thing I'm going to open with is, i'm supposed to I'll be there too.

Speaker 3:

I'll also be there, and Kevin will be there as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, kevin will also be there. It's supposed to shake your snow globe, and I think that that's one of my deepest fears is shaking people's snow globe, because I'm afraid that, instead of staying humble and being like, wow, there might be truth to what he's saying, even though I might not like the way he said it. A lot of times they villainize me and they say F that guy. And what's ironic is that if I want to help Kevin grow, i actually have to say something that might shake his snow globe.

Speaker 1:

I had a moment last night where I was sitting on the couch It was like six, i was six, seven, i don't know what time it was but I was finished for the day and Alan sent me four audio messages And I was like dude F off. And then I listened to him and I was like I'm super grateful he's so focused on making sure we're successful. So I understand it. I know what that's like, because sometimes it is a pain, but the pain is for a greater reason. Last question I know I interrupted you, but we got to go. Last question It's going to be a weird one How often do you cry?

Speaker 2:

I would say, at least once a month, very minimum once a month, but probably way more than that. If you want an example? listen to episode 1000, because it was basically. I don't think we got a word out.

Speaker 1:

No, that was a good episode though.

Speaker 2:

I purposely watch movies. Film for me has always been an escape when my childhood wasn't great. And I purposely watch movies because I want to get back into my heart and out of my head. And so, very brief story Emilia and I, when we first got together, she struggled with vulnerability quite a bit because she grew up in a family that doesn't value vulnerability very much or understand it fully. She was struggling around And I remember she would like make a joke during the crying scene, like the sad scene, and I would say, sweetheart. I invested an hour and 15 minutes for this moment. I want to get back in my heart. I don't want to make some joke. This isn't a joke.

Speaker 2:

Life is a serious game. I'm telling you, life is a serious game And I think that if you're trying to live on the surface, you are just missing it. You are so missing it. And so, whether it's therapy or personal development or this episode rattling you, good, life is a serious game and you got to play it at the deepest level if you want to get to the next level And that's what I think inner work really is Is facing the uncomfortable things that rattle you and then figuring out who you aspire to be within that. And the very last piece I promise is I said this to the team recently, i don't know some people think life is easy.

Speaker 2:

some people think life is hard. some people think life is for fun. some people think life's about family. some people think life's about growth. some people think life's about I don't know money. I don't believe any of that. I think it's wrong, i think it's inaccurate. I've studied the human condition my entire life. I've studied myself my entire life. I've studied thousands of other people. at this stage, i think life is about choices. I think life is about doing all you can with all you have. I think life is about maximizing your potential. I think it's about contributing as much as you can to yourself and others. I think it's about maximizing your own quality of life At the deepest level. I think life is hard and I think anyone who knows anything knows that, no matter how cushy your childhood was, life is hard and it always will be, even if it wasn't hard. that's your hard. But despite that, despite that inevitable truth that none of us can escape, you can make it meaningful. That, i think, is what life's really about, and that's as far as I've gotten on this journey.

Speaker 1:

I can't think of a better place to stop. You've got to go. Let's hop out of here so you can be on time. Please join Next Level Nation. Also, if you are interested in supporting our Next Level Hope Foundation, we are having an event on Father's Day. We're matching donations up to $500. Tomorrow for episode number 1353, don't trade in your future for your present. As always, we love you, appreciate you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and NLU. We do not have fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2:

Keep it meaningful. Next Level Nation.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Speaker 2:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host