Next Level University

#1396 - Sometimes Staying Away Is Harder Than Leaving In The First Place

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Have you ever found yourself standing at the crossroads of a difficult decision, knowing that the most challenging part is not the act of walking away but the battle to stay away once the decision is made? In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros dive deep into the doubts that follow decisions and how pain is often the driving force that propels us to change. They also look closer at the complexities of ending relationships and the courage it takes to set boundaries. They emphasize acknowledging our worth and the value of humbling moments that teach us life-changing lessons. Remember, no matter how unbearable the pain may seem, it often paves the way to change.

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Show notes:
[4:07] When the pain is great enough, you will change
[8:19] If you forget the pain, it's hard to stick to your standards 
[14:22] Nicole shares how Kevin and the Next Level Podcast Solutions team help her with her podcast seamlessly, providing a fantastic experience. 
[15:20] Trust that it is great on the other side
[19:57] Decision and courage
[26:00] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

What's happening Nothing. This is good.

Speaker 2:

He says with enthusiasm Ready.

Speaker 1:

Kenny, how are you enjoying your first day? That's awesome, alright.

Speaker 2:

You tell this camera is not optimized for this situation.

Speaker 1:

So it's actually a vlogging camera.

Speaker 2:

No, no, I meant like you can only see from. Oh, you know what I mean. It's not. It is what it is, it's all gravy.

Speaker 1:

You don't know what this episode is about at all.

Speaker 2:

No Do you just want to go and hold.

Speaker 1:

No, talk to me, we don't have time. Yeah, let's do it. Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we teach, where we teach you how to level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. My goodness, I hope you enjoyed our latest episode, number 1395. How to use commitment to your advantage. Hashtag commitment device Today. For episode number 1396,.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes staying away is harder than leaving in the first place. Facts are facts. I was. I don't know what I was doing the other day. I don't know if I was at the gym or something you ever have. You don't do a lot of this on social media, but you know how I do the quotes. Yeah, sometimes I'll just have a random quote pop in my head and I'm like, oh, that would be a really, really valuable post. I don't know what I was doing, but I had this thought Setting boundaries is very, very challenging. Following through with the boundaries is very, very challenging, but you only have to do them once and then you get the ping of oh, I really miss this person. Oh, I really miss doing this. Oh, what would that be like if I did it again? I am wondering if staying away is harder than setting boundaries in the first place.

Speaker 2:

Definitely.

Speaker 1:

I had this thought behind this entire episode and I had several people reach out to me and say, wow, that really landed. Because when you make the decision so let's just say hypothetically it's a breakup You've decided. You know what. This person's not right for me. I'm going to leave this relationship behind. You only have to make that decision one time.

Speaker 1:

If you end up following through, then four weeks later, when you're home alone and you're lonely and you see all your friends on social media about their out with their partners, or maybe you're on dating apps and you can tell this is not going to be a very fruitful use of my time, that's when I think the doubts start popping up and you have to recheck in why you left in the first place and this isn't just with relationships. I remember this when I left my job, there was a. The initial part of me was oh my God, this is the best thing ever. This is amazing. A couple of weeks later, there was the part of me that said I don't know if this was the right decision. I really don't know if I should be doing this and I wonder, if I reached back out, if there would be an opportunity for me to get my job back. That's happened with.

Speaker 1:

I've mentioned many times the whole situation ship thing that I went through. I had the same thought of ah, was that the right decision? I'm going to be lonely now. This is going to suck. I don't have any prospective love on the horizon. So that's kind of my thought for this episode. If if you are planning on making a challenging decision, sometimes it's best to just do it and say all right, you know what, I'm not going to worry about what happens after it, let me just do it. But for this, my thought process and maybe an early next level nugget is what are the potential triggers or polls that you're going to have long after you make this, this decision that might actually bring you back into the environment? You didn't want to be in the first place.

Speaker 2:

This is a fun week of episodes. I hate this. I enjoy it very much.

Speaker 1:

It's definitely harder to podcast with you in person, though, because I can see you with your smirk over there.

Speaker 2:

Of course.

Speaker 1:

Of course, don't mess anything up here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm planning on it, it's all good, fail forward. So this is the analogy All right, when the pain is great enough. You will change. Normally, when you make a decision to quit your job, it's right after the pain is great enough and you're like screw this, screw this job, I'm out, I'm done. I remember I was so upset with my career at the time that I was punching my ceiling and then, honestly, later that night I ended up calling one of those suicide hotlines.

Speaker 2:

I wasn't suicidal, but I knew I needed help. I talked to a woman who was a therapist and I ended up getting a program I told you about and it ended up having all these CDs and it was actually basically like a little personal development mental health program. I ended up being amazing. There's little cards you'd carry around in your pocket with positive affirmations and it was very, very, very helpful, one of the best decisions I ever made. But the pain was finally great enough.

Speaker 2:

When I was so upset, I got home and I was like that's it, I'm done. I was punching my ceiling and I was like this is the worst. I need to change my life. So I do, I take the call, make the call, I do it. But then, when life starts to get better, you start to forget how bad the job was or how bad the relationship was or how are the pain. You forget what the pain was like, yeah, and so now, all of a sudden and this is the hard part Everything you're doing right now is serving you in some way. So, kev your job, the money was serving you definitely big time. The pain got great enough to where the money wasn't worth it. But then, when the pain went away. Two weeks later the pain dissipated and the lack of money pain increased. Yeah, all of a sudden you're starting to question like I don't know, did I make the right choice? Broke, podcaster, no money, what are we gonna do all these uncomfortable things? All of a sudden it starts feeling really Valuable to go back, go back to Old World.

Speaker 2:

And so, whether it's a movie or a book or a story, there's always this this narrative of Character at the beginning is in Old World, it's a normal world, whatever it is, and then some sort of trauma or pain happens. In Batman it's his parents gets killed in the back alley. In in Star Wars, his parents get, get killed Insert movie. Here there's always some sort of a tragic thing or Big challenge or big painful moment that takes that character out of Old World, makes the pain great enough for them to finally take a leap of faith. And then they get challenges along the way and it's kind of like being in the center of a mountain, where you're under the in this tunnel and you can barely see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the light behind you is brighter than the light in front of you and you're like I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna get to the other end, and we call that lonely land. And so it's not just setting the boundary, it's not just taking the leap of faith, it's not just the uncomfortable moment, it's not just getting outside your comfort zone, it's how do you stay outside your comfort zone?

Speaker 2:

And so, for me, I remember I used to. I remember I had left a partner that I was intimate with, and I remember I wrote down All the bullet points as to why. Because I knew I was gonna forget the bad and remember the good. I knew that the moment I was lonely, I was gonna remember all the great times and all the great things and how funny she was, and I was gonna forget all the Ways I was mistreated in, all the ways I was unhappy and all the ways this was below my standards and that actually happened. I ended up going back several times, just like I talk about. It took me five years to quit drinking because I Forgot the pain of the hangovers. It's sometimes when you haven't had a hangover. So now I haven't had a hangover in four years plus. I forget what it's like, but I can promise you if I were to go on a drinking night the next day, I would be like, oh my god, I can't believe I used to do this. Yeah, because you, you know and and so.

Speaker 1:

But that that's the other thing. Is that fades. The next day you feel fine again.

Speaker 2:

You kind of forget about it exactly, and then by the weekend comes and it's like all you do is remember the good times. You don't remember the hangover anymore, and so the cycle repeats. And so if you want to break your patterns, break your cycles negative ones, you know, there's things that are positive upward trends and there's things that are downward, and at the end of the day, if, if you don't remember the pain, it's gonna be very hard to stay. Stay true to your standards.

Speaker 1:

And you.

Speaker 2:

Carbonated drink, if there's any medical professionals out there, I'm starting to think.

Speaker 1:

Alan burps more than the normal person's.

Speaker 2:

I just want to make sure he's okay.

Speaker 1:

It's all I feel great, it's all I feel. Great, so very similar to you. Yes, I left one relationship in I. I don't know if this was a coping mechanism or if this was me just trying to be intelligent, but I jumped Immediately into another relationship and I think part of it was because I had tried to leave that other relationship so many times and I didn't do it. I you want me to tell a story. I don't know if I do.

Speaker 2:

Kevin has one specific. It is a relatable story, it's it's. How much are you gonna laugh?

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna try really hard. I'm gonna really it's straight out of a movie man it's.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, it is.

Speaker 1:

And again, it is. I Don't want to say it's sad, because I I just didn't have a very high level of self-worth, so I was willing to accept less than ideal behavior. So I had an argument with my partner at the time and and so her room was in the basement of her mom's house and we had an argument and I walked out the back door. I Walked out the back door and I said you know what? Screw you, I'm out of here, I'm done. Aka, the pain is great enough, it's great enough, I'm done. And she said you leave this house and we are done for good. I said good, that's why I'm leaving, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying the same thing that you're saying to say AKA, boundary set. So I walked to my car, I opened the door, I get in the car and I said Shit. And then I got out of the car, I shut the door behind me, I tucked my tail between my legs and I went downstairs, back into that relationship.

Speaker 1:

Now again, all things, and I know we joke about it, but it's not like it wasn't an abusive relationship. It wasn't something to that level where maybe you've had that experience and maybe the the circumstances around it are much different. So I don't want to. I don't want to. What's the word? I'm looking for less than that, but I just didn't have the courage. I didn't have the courage to do it. And even if I did have the courage to do it, I don't know how long I would have lasted, because I probably would have got lonely and said you know what the pain? Oftentimes the pain that you know is better than the pain that you know. Yeah, the uncertainty, I know it doesn't make sense, but the uncertainty that you know is Is better than the uncertainty that you know.

Speaker 2:

I know you can't really know uncertainty, but because when you're uncertain and it's normal For you, at least you're certain about the uncertainty and you convince yourself.

Speaker 1:

Well, it wasn't. That wasn't that bad.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course it wasn't. That you may have calls this deleting files. She says, alan, you delete files of all the negative things and you want to see the best in people, which I think is a beautiful gift. But it's also dangerous and you got to look at the good and the bad. I think some people overly look at the bad and they're like looking for things wrong with people, and I think other people have rose-colored glasses. It's very hard to be accurate. Then there's a whole bunch of studies about cognitive biases and how we all distort our own realities, and you know all of that. But at the end of the day, the pain is great enough, so you make a move you're like that's it, I'm done, or that's it, I'm gonna change my life.

Speaker 2:

And then it start. The pain goes away and all of a sudden you stop doing what got you to the dance and we've talked about that a lot it's you know, you have an injury, you go to physical therapy and then you feel great. You stop going to physical therapy and guess who gets injured again? Yeah, and that's just the way it works. So if you can go against, you just have to be smarter than that you have to.

Speaker 2:

You have to try really hard to know better. I remember having a moment to. This was such a humbling moment. I remember being like Alan, are you kidding me? How many times do you have to regret drinking before you're actually gonna change? How many hangovers is it gonna take? Is it gonna be the next hangover, or are you actually gonna do this right and I don't know? It's. It's a lot. It's a lot harder than I think podcasts can really talk about.

Speaker 2:

When it's something like that, certain changes aren't hard for people like I coach a bunch of different people, right. So some people have a really hard time with fitness. Other people fitness is no problem, but they have a really hard time with their relationship. Or everyone has a really hard time with a couple things. Everyone myself and Kevin included everyone has a hard time with a couple things. It's just probably different than your things, and so you're looking at them and everyone unconsciously hides those things. Kevin and I are trying really hard not to do that.

Speaker 2:

So like for me, for example, there are certain things that exercising daily isn't super challenging for me. I've been doing it for 495 days. It's definitely been humbling at times. For sure tonight it definitely will be, but overall that's not really that difficult, quite frankly, right now at this point. But I remember a time when it was and you know, setting boundaries with family members is definitely super hard for me and writing every day is super hard for me, so not drinking at it at a certain time was unbelievably difficult for me. Now it's not hard at all, but that's because I'm four years in, and so I think that it's very freeing for everyone to know that everyone has these challenges, and that's why part of the reason I laugh too is because, yes, that's straight out of a sitcom and I've you know why else I laugh.

Speaker 2:

I've been there, I arrived, been there where it's like that's it, this is it, this is done. I'm now, I'm out, and then I'm driving home and I'm like I go from, like Leonardo DiCaprio, I'm free.

Speaker 1:

This is the best thing ever to like calling her and you know, and it's just like I remember listening to the Free Fallen by Tom Petty. Free fall and then it's like hmm, yeah, I don't know about this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go back, yeah you know, and if you've never had that moment you probably have in something where you've just been like you've tucked your tail, you went back, you tolerated something less than what you really want, and there is a way through that. It just has to be. I'm convinced it's like you have to realize that it's gonna be really difficult and that you have to like trust that on the other side of this is something great and I. It took me I think it was like nine months or so that I was deeply lonely. I talk about how I was at Panera and they had bottomless coffee and all I did was work and I didn't have any friends and I was at the gym late night and I ended up finally texting Emilia. But I remember feeling really, really lonely before I met Emilia and I had to trust that something good was on the other side of that loneliness, because I had to say no to every other opportunity and luckily I did. Thank goodness I did.

Speaker 2:

And your future self, I will thank you. But it's gonna test you first. You know you're gonna be tested. Can you hold this boundary? Can you hold the standard? Can you? Can you follow through? It's easy to say it when you're in the heat of the moment, but can you follow through?

Speaker 1:

it's the opposite of remember why you started and remember why you started this, this coaching, this podcast, whatever it is. It's the opposite. Remember why you stopped, remember why you didn't think this was serving you. Remember the toxic stuff that comes with it. Remember the negativity, remember the pain, remember the embarrassment, whatever it may be. I am convinced that I have learned as much it's a bold statement, you're not gonna like this. I've learned as much from television sitcoms as anything else television sitcoms that actually have good stories for you out there. Maybe you have seen new girl with the wonderful Zooey Deschanel. There is a character named Jake and he's kind of the class clown of the group, but he recorded a video to himself after a young lady broke his heart and he would watch it every single time he was getting ready to make a rash decision. And, yes, it's funny because it's in a movie, it's in a TV show, but that is kind of what we're talking about. Definitely, yeah, I think it's a powerful.

Speaker 2:

I did that exact thing they do.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm not not a video, sorry, I did the bullets but, it's the same idea where it's like record how you feel, yeah, and read it again so that you can remember why you left. And that's why people redo their vows. On the other side of that, which is like, let's re-remember why we started this and let's redo our vows so that we can get back to our commitment. Because two years, four years, eight years, the law of familiarity, the same old, same old. You totally lose sight of it. You can lose sight of how great something is until you lose it. And you can lose sight of how bad something is when you're lonely and you forget how bad it was when the pain is. And the last piece, the next little nugget, for me is everything is serving you, even if it feels like it isn't. I'll give you an example Alcohol was serving me in some capacities. Of course I'm gonna miss the fun. I'm not gonna miss the hangovers. I don't miss the hangovers.

Speaker 2:

But I do miss all of the camaraderie, all the friends, all the being the guy, all the fun, all the being the fun one, all the jokes. You know there's so much. The reason why it was so hard to quit was because there was so much good. If it was all bad, it wouldn't be hard to quit. That's fair and I think that that's true for any relationship. It's true for any job. Your job had some really good things about it. That's why it was so hard to quit.

Speaker 2:

The stuff that's all bad isn't hard to quit, Mostly just the money. But it was really good. Yeah, the money was really good, Really good, Way better than the alternative at the time. And I think that's what makes it so challenging is because the biggest enemy to the life you really, really, really want is the decent one you already have. The biggest enemy to the most magnificent relationship I've ever had was the decent one I already had and you've got to remember that and trust that something better is on the other side and the cool part is that if it's not, you can always go back. It's true you know.

Speaker 1:

My next level, nugget, would be next time you are planning on making a decision that you know is going to be challenging, try also to plan for what happens after. That's kind of my thought is, when you quit drinking you probably didn't do it in the way that many other people do, but I'm sure when you quit drinking and maybe you start going to meetings or I don't know, I've never experienced it I'm sure they say, like, what's the plan Moving forward? What's the plan next time you get a craving or you're at a public event or whatever it may be? So I would say, yeah, the decision and the design after the decision are just as important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely. Well said. I appreciate that very much. There's the courage, there's the decision and then there's the courage to actually do it. So in Kev's example, the courage was I'm out, I'm done. The decision before that was I'm done, and it was very quick. And then by the time he got to his car he didn't have a plan. So what happened?

Speaker 1:

after that was I don't remember how long after I don't think it was that long we ended up. I don't remember we were texting and we were arguing and I was like let's just be done, let's just be done, this isn't working. And my partner at the time, my ex, said all right, fine, let's be done. And that was it. For me, it was like all right, we're done, this is done. I need to do something. I need to do something. And again, I don't suggest this. But I ended up meeting somebody like two weeks later and I started dating that person. It's like well, I'm not going back now. Is that healthy? No, would I suggest that? Most likely not. I definitely wasn't alone long enough. I wasn't alone long enough, but I also I wonder if that was better than jumping back into their relationship.

Speaker 2:

What do you?

Speaker 1:

think Probably yeah, I learned, was I successful? I guess I learned a lot.

Speaker 2:

Was it? Was it a moral line than the previous?

Speaker 1:

one, definitely yeah, and I learned a lot from that, and then that didn't work out the next level some would say. I would say that some would say I would.

Speaker 2:

I would say that some would say the biggest enemy to the next level is the level you're on is the the great things about the level you're on? Yeah, Wow. So true, that's very true, so true, the great things about the level you're on or the comfort of the previous level.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's almost like when you get to that next level, they're it's it's more challenging in certain ways. I've told many people because a lot of people they'll reach out to me when they're thinking of leaving their job, because that's obviously a big part of my story and I always tell tell people, you have to prepare for the what's gonna feel like loss. You're gonna have a moment where you say, oh, my goodness, but what about Janine? I love working with Janine, I understand, and Janine might love working with you too, but that's not why we're leaving.

Speaker 1:

We're not leaving because of Janine. We're leaving because your mental health is not in a great place, because of your job. We have to remember the reasons.

Speaker 2:

You're always going to feel the pain of the loss long before the gain of the new level. Yes, and it's like the logic is why you left. Logic and emotion is why you left. This isn't working. Here's why. And the pain's great enough, and I feel the pain, then the emotion goes away and now it's just logic, and now you're actually feeling the emotion of the loss. So no wonder why it's so hard to stick with stuff.

Speaker 1:

Or the logic goes away and it's just emotion. Like either one can happen. Imagine the logic was this relationship is not serving me. Then that goes away and it's just the emotion of I can't seem to find anybody else. I miss that. I miss snuggling with somebody at night. Whatever it may be, I think one of them go or they both go.

Speaker 2:

The pain of the loss will always be felt long before the benefit of the next level, and so if you can't get through that, you're always gonna go back to old world. You're always gonna go back to the old level. It's so interesting. Every time we've lost clients, that's been really painful and really challenging, but we've always leveled up after and figured out why and learned and grown and some of them have come back, but we have leveled up through those losses. It's so interesting. It really is what you do with the pain of the loss that matters. Do you let it drive you to go and set a new standard or do you let it drive you back to the past?

Speaker 1:

Cool, I enjoyed this one very much Same. You were getting ready to do something.

Speaker 2:

I was, and then I realized I don't have to, you're just gonna, can't?

Speaker 1:

I don't know what to do with my hands Next 11ation. One of the things that we never talk about on here, but is something we do very, very often and it's a good opportunity to get to know us at a deeper level and we get to know you at a deeper level is following us on social. I post a lot of pictures of my cats. Alan posts a lot of pictures of the family. There's also some valuable stuff like teaser clips on the podcast and all that happy jazz, but I think it'll help you know us at a deeper level and vice versa. My handle on Instagram is at Never Quit. Kid Alan's is at a Lazarus 88, A-L-A-Z-A-R-O-S 88. And then Alan Lazarus on Facebook. Kevin Palmieri on Facebook.

Speaker 2:

Shout out to Derek Derek. What's happened to man? He posted a NLU FitPick yesterday which I reposted on my Instagram stories. So Emilia and I started a challenge, a fitness challenge, in March 1st of 2022. It has been 496 days from then and we've basically been doing 30 minutes of exercise. It can be any type of exercise Soccer, basketball, walking move your body for 30 minutes, set a timer and we've done it for 495 days in a row. You do not have to do it every day, but when you do it, use hashtag NLU FitPick or hashtag team Evolve Moves. Both the Evolve communities and the NLU communities are. I mean, I think Amy L is at 300 plus days. I know Brandon is over 250 days. I'm pretty sure Jesse's up there, lizzie.

Speaker 1:

I believe Lizzie's up there as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, she's been doing yoga every day for like three months or more, or something like that. I don't know the exact number, but I know it's been A lot of the community is in on this, of who can exercise consistently. So if you want to join, hashtag NLU FitPick spelt just like it sounds and tag me tag Emilia. We will share it on our story and we hope to inspire each other to keep going.

Speaker 1:

Tomorrow for episode number 1397, it still feels like we're never gonna get to 1400. Who are your role models? Alan and I had a conversation today behind the scenes and we were talking a lot about role models. I thought you know what? Maybe that would be a valuable episode to share with the audience. So we will do that for Friday's episode tomorrow. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we do not have fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2:

Stick with those boundaries. Next level nation.

Speaker 1:

Nice, all right, yeah, 1396, huh.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host