Next Level University

#1416 - When Life Knocks You Down… What Do YOU Do?

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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How does one navigate the stormy seas of trauma? Can we use our unique trauma responses to our advantage? We've all faced challenges, and in this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about the complex world of trauma responses and coping mechanisms, discussing the spectrum of responses. They also explore how to harness these responses to our benefit. The conversation turns towards the challenges of maintaining balance when trauma responses can positively and negatively affect our lives. They discuss the need to make our trauma responses more productive, which can significantly improve our relationships and professional lives.

Links mentioned:
Blog: #7 - How to Live Life on Your Own Terms - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-how-live-life-your-own-terms-alan-lazaros/
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level U Book Club - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-book-club/   


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Show notes:
[2:04] Kevin would go the gym when life gets him down
[5:56] Constructive or destructive trauma response
[15:08] Amanda shares how Alan made her feel valued and supported during their first consultation call and how she appreciates his holistic approach
[16:04] What is your therapy?
[21:44] Fight, flight, freeze, or fawn
[27:48] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we teach you how to level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode. It was episode number 1415. Sleep is actually productive. I get a very productive night of sleep last night. Today, for episode number 1416. Happy Wednesday. When life knocks you down, what do you do? I?

Speaker 1:

I spent some time on Saturday, alan, finishing up a song that I had written, and Taryn was getting ready to go somewhere. She's going out, she's going to see somebody. I remember where she was going and she said and she said this jokingly she said how come you never write love songs about me? And we laughed about it and I said I don't, I don't know. I usually, when I write, it's usually because I've been beaten down. I'm usually overwhelmed, I'm sad, I'm heartbroken, I'm lonely. I said, babe, a lot of my inspiration comes from what I'm suffering and when I'm deeply in love there's not a lot of inspiration there anymore. A lot of it comes from me feeling rejected or neglected or sad or hurt or disappointed or Whatever it may be. And we joked about it. But that was really a breakthrough for me, because then I connected the dot of or the dots to when I was the loneliest I wrote the most.

Speaker 1:

When I was the brookest I wrote the most, and that's probably a dangerous game. And then I connected it back another layer, so earlier in life, before I was doing as much writing Anytime I would get my heart broken or I would feel super lonely or something bad would happen to me I would go to the gym. That's when I did. When life knocked me down, I usually went to the gym and that became what we were calling a productive trauma response. You get productive stress response. Whatever you want to consider it. If I had negative things that I did, so when life knocks me down say, maybe I went out drinking that wouldn't be as productive, that wouldn't have Lended itself to me being as in good a shape as I was, and I still do that.

Speaker 1:

When I'm overwhelmed, the gym is my therapy. It really grounds me and I lost sight of that when I wasn't working out. I I now connecting the dots. I was more anxious. For sure I wasn't sleeping as well. I probably was more irritable. But I've gone to the gym every single day. I don't know, it's been a minute, probably a month I've gone every day. I Love it. It's the best, it's the best and it's really really good for me. So my question for you all start with a question what is your productive Trauma response if you're out there? And then we could reverse that question and add another layer what is your destructive trauma response, if you have one?

Speaker 2:

We first and foremost the fact that you've been in the gym for a full month. It is noticeable. I think I missed one day. Your self-esteem Well, appreciate your honesty. Your self-esteem is higher. You're more centered. It's definitely noticeable in your energy. It's good, really good. You don't know.

Speaker 1:

That's the hard thing is you don't know. When you're doing it now I feel normal. Well then, when I stop doing it, well, this is what normal feels like. You don't know until you take a step back and look below the the log for the salamander. You ever find salamanders.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, of course Definitely.

Speaker 1:

That's why we get along real quick, real quick, just real quick. It has nothing to do with anything. We're talking about my buddy and I. I think I told you this. We made a salad, a salamander hut in the woods. It had a, it had a river, we made him a hot tub and everything and then they left. They all, they moved. Yeah, they didn't want anything to do with it.

Speaker 2:

Not proud of this.

Speaker 1:

That's how every good story starts.

Speaker 2:

Don't tell me no, no, my, my friend and I Used to build these sandpit, little mini sand pits, and we used to have the red ants versus the black ants. Wow yeah, and I again not proud of this. I wouldn't do this again, but as a kid I was curious and we would Bring in other people people, not people Caterpillars as is dark.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a little bit. That was your trauma. Response back then was to Make it will suffer.

Speaker 2:

I thought we were supposed to do war. I thought the red ants were supposed to battle the black everybody.

Speaker 1:

I think everybody has that a little of that when they're young little bit figure.

Speaker 2:

And then do you know what a lion ant is? No, okay, this is Relevant to this episode, but a lion ant is an ant that digs under the ground and it has like a little Burrow thing that ants fall in and then they come out and they start spitting out. Look up, lion ant, it's fascinating. Okay, I used to put those as mines in the minefield it was. We used to play bugs, we did, we played bugs as a little kid. So it's a little bit about my childhood and Kevin's childhood. Back to this episode trauma response.

Speaker 2:

I Think all of us have a constructive or destructive trauma response at all times, at all times. I Would say there are some. It's a spectrum. On the far end will go zero to ten, like we do it. I know you, yeah, I know you, and Zero would be fully destructive. Ten would be fully constructive. I would say that you going to the gym is on the very high end of constructive. So not only are you getting centered, getting healthier, working through your stuff, processing things, but you're also building a better body, stronger body.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I would say emotional eating as a trauma response can be productive if you're eating nutritious foods after a good workout. But most likely emotional eating is not constructive. But it is technically constructive if you eat, take a nap and then you feel better after and then you get back after it. It's, these trauma responses have a lot of nuances. Right, it's Obviously if you're in a certain diet that you can't have your calories go above a certain amount. Emotional eating is not good.

Speaker 2:

But For you out there, watching or listening, what is your trauma response? There's four main ones. I Didn't know about the fourth, actually, for a very long time. It took me till my 30s to learn. In the fourth one, you immediately tell me this. So the ones that everyone know is fight or flight. Those are the common ones. Next is freeze, which is just do nothing. And Then the fourth one that I didn't know about is bond, and that actually was the one that was my biggest blind spot. So fight to get better, fight the other person or thing, whatever it is. Flight, run away, avoid, shell up. Those are very, very common. Freeze is disassociate, do nothing. I know a lot of Females out there who have dealt with any sexual traumas or anything like that. A lot of times they'll just freeze. That's something common, unfortunately.

Speaker 2:

And then fawn fawn is Do whatever the other person. Or a good example of fawning would be if you have an alcoholic parent growing up and they they want you to do something, you just go, do it, even if you disagree with it, because you don't want to be hurt. And so we develop these trauma responses. Some of us go into our room, watch our favorite show and eat food as a trauma response. Some of us Fawn, some of us, which would be flight. So in that case, go into your room. I have one client I'm thinking of right now who would spend her childhood in her room because whenever she got yelled at by her Abusive father, she would always just go hide in her room and that would be flight. That would be flight. Fawn would be do whatever he wants. Fight would be challenge him, which when she was small she couldn't do. And so we're all still running these same trauma responses.

Speaker 2:

I did a blog recently. If you've read blog number seven, I Talked about my past and I talked about my trauma response. Fortunately, my trauma response growing up was aim higher, dream bigger, believe in myself, more work, harder work, smarter. That was constructive. That was my constructive trauma response. Fortunately, my destructive trauma response, which I talked about in the blog was alcohol. It was fun, it was escape and it was alcohol and A lot of people that are having fun and escaping and drugs and alcohol and other things like that. A Lot of that actually is a trauma response that is masked in having a good time, when in reality, a lot of times not always, but a lot of times they're just avoiding something or not dealing with something uncomfortable Would you.

Speaker 1:

I would argue this is what I was thinking Many of the things you're really really good at. It might be because it was a trauma response, definitely.

Speaker 2:

If you have experience in something, I'll give you a perfect example. So one of my trauma responses when I had a tough time growing up was movies. We actually talked recently about how I didn't have cable during one of the hardest times in my life when my stepdad left at 14. Movies were my escape. I have an ex-girlfriend sweetest person. She read so many books because the Harry Potter books, all those books were an escape for her and she had a challenging childhood. So she was amazing at reading, extremely good at reading and writing, and she did really well in school because she was always reading. She had a great vocabulary. She was way better at reading than I was, but I knew way more about movies and so when I went to LA and wanted to work in a show business, I knew about directors and I knew about casting. I knew how it all worked because I had studied movies for so long and I didn't realize this until recently, kev. But Emilie and I have been working on effective communication. You and I have as well.

Speaker 2:

I had been studying storytelling for over a decade just through film. I'm fascinated by stories and characters and character development and story arcs and three act structure. Even if you didn't understand everything I just said. A lot of that was a trauma response because I studied film, because film for me has always been an escape. But with that escape comes something that you get really good at that other people don't, and there's a way to leverage that. I use storytelling all the time.

Speaker 2:

Now we're about to give a speech in Pittsburgh. I'm going to tell a story and the way in which you tell that story can be super, super compelling. I've talked about the three movies. The first movie is it starts out in an award ceremony, ends on another bigger award ceremony no struggle whatsoever. Second movie is rags no riches, failure, failure, failure, struggle, struggle, struggle, even more rags at the end.

Speaker 2:

Those first two movies aren't compelling. The third movie is rags through riches, struggles and triumph, failure and success and the way in which you develop the character and the character transforms throughout the narrative. That all of that was at least born and bred through my own trauma response and I know heroes growing up, superheroes and all that For me. Some of my biggest heroes growing up were superheroes like Captain America or Iron man or whatever it is, and so I think there's always a benefit, a pro and a con to every trauma response and then, as you get older, hopefully you recognize what yours were. You recognize your own unique superpowers within that and then hopefully you deploy that to be more successful and impact more people.

Speaker 1:

I think my negative one probably was smoking weed, probably Prump maybe, maybe porn before that. I don't know if that was really a trauma response. I think that was more of a more of an addiction than anything. I don't think weed was ever an addiction, it was more. Yeah, I think it was more a trauma response, maybe a stress response. Whatever you wanna consider it, might not have been. Do you think you ever used?

Speaker 2:

it to escape. Yeah, this is the tool versus the crutch.

Speaker 1:

I think it was a flight I was flighting from, because I still I've talked about this. I still partake occasionally in marijuana, whether it's an edible or whatever it may be, but it's not for that.

Speaker 2:

I'm not looking for an escape. What's the difference? If you wouldn't mind sharing, cause it feels different, right, it doesn't?

Speaker 1:

feel like a crutch anymore.

Speaker 1:

No, yeah, I'm not really looking for the only results. I'm really looking for is just extra relaxation and or more creative thinking. Those are really the only two things. I, if Tara and I are gonna have a movie night or something, I might pop an edible and watch, and I always have a great. I just have deeper thoughts about the movie. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 1:

It's just not what it used to be. That's what I would say, and I would say the other thing, too is yeah, there's a lot more stress now, but there's a lot more constructive areas to put the stress right. There's just a lot of. I mean, we get to do this every day and this is very fulfilling. So this helps. It's not direct, it's not. I'm overwhelmed, I'm gonna go podcast, but this definitely. It purges the valve of pressure for sure, definitely Right during. We're gonna try to record. We're gonna record seven episodes today. I'm not really thinking about that much else. I don't really. There's not that much going on in my mind. It's just like let's do this episode. Oh, this is the next one. Awesome, what a story. So that's helpful too. So this could even be an episode of what are the things that help alleviate stress proactively and constructively.

Speaker 2:

Well, all of us have a list, hopefully in our mind, whether we've written it down or not, wrote in it down, whether we've written it down or not of therapy like what is your therapy? And again, I don't mean actually therapy, I do recommend that as well. But for me, playing basketball, watching films, food for sure, delicious food for a lot of people it's walks in nature. For me, fitness, 100%. You can always tell when I'm having a hard day, when I have to go to the gym, or at least that's what I tell myself. But I listen to specific things that are not positive. I don't want to say they're not positive, they're kind of like I don't want to say sad, they're deeply contemplative. I have some go to speeches and I have go to songs that are melancholy.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say, are they in the melancholy playlist?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I have a specific playlist that I use to go and reflect on the journey and how hard it's been. Honestly, my trauma response is going to the future. It's reflecting on the past and building a bigger future. We did a really ship talks event recently. That went really well, but after it I'm so spent that they end at like 730 at night. They used to end at 830 at night.

Speaker 2:

That stuff's hard for me. I don't know how to explain these things. I'm not necessarily super good at it. I think I'm a strong communicator, but it's way outside my comfort zone. I always have really hard days. That those days promotion, blah, blah, blah. After those events we do feedback, experience review, most important win, most important improvement. There's so much feedback. We're usually focused because it's Emilie and I on what we did poorly, not what went well, just because we want to improve.

Speaker 2:

Usually after that I got to go to the gym and I just got to listen to. I have this one speech by Bob Proctor that I frequent and it's got this great music in the background to it. I just frequent this speech. I love it. I have the thing.

Speaker 2:

I don't know maybe not memorized, but it's one of those things that you can listen without listening because you've seen it so many times. It's like a movie that you've seen so many times that you can just put it on and you don't have to pay attention really, but you're still in it. I don't know if that's unique to me or not, but Anyways, in those moments I always just dream bigger. I always reflect on the past how far I've come and then I dream bigger. That's another trauma response that I've been doing since I was a little kid, and maybe anyone out there listening might be doing this too. Fortunately for me, my trauma response to pain and suffering and adversity was go to clues find a way to dream bigger, believe in yourself more and figure out how to climb out of whatever dark hole you're in. It's really that it's figure out how to climb to the next level. That's kind of what it is. What if the next level is digging out of a terrible dark hole?

Speaker 1:

I don't really look into the future. I usually just look into the past Makes sense. You and I are very much on brand, but I always reflect. That's why I say I'll go back. And when I go back to my hometown, when I go visit Allen, it's weird. That's a weird experience for me Cathartic. I don't even know what that word means, but I hear a lot of people use it when they're saying stuff like this. So maybe it's cathartic. I don't know what it means. It's almost like therapy. It brings me back to who I used to be. It's always a very Not emotional. It's emotional, not emotional in a negative way. It's a very emotional experience for me to drive down the street I used to live on. I remember the way I thought and what I expected for my future and what I thought of my past. Then I remember that. I remember all that stuff. It's always strange for me to do that.

Speaker 1:

My question, my next level nugget for the listeners, would be what is something you've been doing for a long, long, long period of time and have you connected when you do it the most, or when you get the most fulfillment, or when it seems the most necessary? One of the reasons, alan, one of the reasons why I wasn't going to the gym before I really got into this groove is because my body was hurt, and every time I would go to the gym it would be more stressful because I couldn't get a good workout. It's like and I understand again, that's a first world problem, for sure, but I would leave saying that, sucked, I don't want to go back to the gym. Everything hurts. My shoulder hurts, my knee hurts. It's not constructive, it's not productive for me to be there.

Speaker 2:

It didn't release from the gym. If your trauma responses go to the gym and you can't do that?

Speaker 2:

You can't do that, because then it's gonna create more pain and the last thing you want is more pain when you're already in pain, there's something to be said for. We always say get outside your comfort zone, and it's important. If you live for comfort, you're in so much trouble. I'll never sugarcoat that, because life is inherently uncomfortable, especially if you want to do something magnificent. But if you're way outside your comfort zone, the last thing that is constructive is to go way outside your comfort zone again. It's like if you sprain your ankle and then play football the next day, it's not useful, it's not constructive. But if you go to physical therapy and work it a little bit, it is constructive. So some people say, okay, I'm not gonna use my ankle for three months. I made that mistake and it didn't heal as quickly as it would have if I actually was proactive with my physical therapy. And I've also been on the other end of that. I've screwed. I'm gonna play basketball the next day and it just kept re-injuring, kept re-injuring, kept re-injuring. So we all have to find that sort of sweet spot. So, whatever your trauma response is, figure out what it is.

Speaker 2:

Fight flight freezer, fawn what's your go-to? We did this recently. Was it on Book Club? It was Book Club. I think we did a poll Fight flight freezer fawn Group coaching. Was it group coaching? Okay?

Speaker 1:

we did it in group coaching. Might have done it in Book Club as well.

Speaker 2:

Probably both. Which one is your go-to and then just start recognizing when that's happening. And then what flavor? What flavor of faunting If it is flight for me, flight food and movie. Okay, can I eat food that's nutritious, towards my fitness goals, and watch a movie that's inspiring me, instead of just any movie? There's a way to make it constructive. If you're gonna go off the rails, do it as constructively as possible. For lack of better phrasing, would it be better for me to pick up a personal development book? Of course it would, and denying that is just wrong. But If I'm gonna watch a movie, I might as well watch one that might have a good analogy that I could use on the podcast or will Inspire me in some unique way, or one that I can connect with Emilia on. Like the Black Panther films unbelievable, they're so good. I Can use analogies in those. Emilia's already said some things that were in the film that and also other people have seen them. So it's tough with Kev because he doesn't watch a lot of films.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes I can't it's like I gotta explain the film, then explain the concept of why I was using the film. It's a whole thing, unless it's a comedy, in which case he's definitely seen it, most likely, but that's all is. Is what's your trauma response? And then how can you make that trauma response somehow more constructive towards what you?

Speaker 1:

value and that's, that's an important piece of self-awareness to have to, where you said could I do something more constructive? Could I? Could I find a way to make this even more constructive? I had a conversation with somebody recently I don't talking about weed a lot in this episode, I don't know why, but this person said I Gotta be very careful when I, when I've been taking edibles and it's growing up my diet. Oh, okay, the thing that maybe you're using for one thing is completely creating another potential problem. That's just. It's just self-awareness, is it? It's very, it's very powerful how simple we are as humans when you think about it. Like, okay, when I get, when something happens, I go do this, okay, well, something happens is always gonna happen. Different flavors, of course. What can I do to improve the flavor of my trauma response, stress response, definitely and everyone.

Speaker 2:

So simple, yeah. Well, there's a thousand intricacies, you know, course, to being a human, but I do think that's a big one, I think so a lot of your results good and bad, you know are Predicated on whatever your trauma responses were.

Speaker 2:

I know some people their trauma response was to puff up and you know, go, think they're better and go, you know, be calm, but but their relationships suffer. Yeah, you're more successful, but your relationship suffers. I know some people whose trauma response was to be vulnerable and to go snuggle with their partner. Their relationships great, but they aren't necessarily as successful in their careers and that's that's why it's so hard to be holistic. This is it right here. It's so hard to be holistic because we're all successful in the trauma response to Whatever our trauma response was created a lot of our success. That's why you're funny 100%. That is 100% why you're funny. Kevin gets funnier and funnier the harder and harder things get. It's fair, which is awesome, because I get more and more intense. I Got me. It got me through some stuff.

Speaker 1:

I watched a video again. I was reflecting oh Hadouken, he hadouken his microphone. I was reflecting recently and I was going through my old snapchat videos and that's what would happen it would be Friday. I'd be tired. I stayed up for days on end. I'm six hours away from home and I would have a video of Ray Ray and I guys to work with funny, funny, funny guy and we were just laughing and making jokes and that's how we got through it. We just laughed our way through all that, that pain and we still do it today.

Speaker 2:

We do definitely. That has been one of my favorite parts.

Speaker 1:

Well, you and I are driving ten hours and a couple days, so I'm sure you and I will have some laughs along the way. We will definitely have some laughs, I'm sure we will. Next level nation. If you are looking for a group of like-minded individuals who are into growth, self-improvement, self-awareness, vulnerability, having the tough conversations, please join our private Facebook group, next level nation. The link is in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

If you're on YouTube, you can see that I'm holding up a book by the one and only Jim quick. The symbol I just realized recently is actually kind of the symbol of a brain Very cool. The book is called limitless. It's meta learning and what that means is learning how to learn. He talks about a lot of really valuable things mindset method. This is one of the most practical books that I've ever read about how to improve your life, so I'm super, super excited.

Speaker 2:

It's the next book in book club. We are gonna do one chapter per week every Saturday, 12 30 pm, eastern Standard Time. This Saturday will be moved. Kevin and I will be traveling. I'm gonna be moving it to 3 pm, maybe 4 pm. I will confirm that it's gonna be moved to Sunday. There's only there's been two book clubs in the last 150 something weeks in a row, I think. I think it's that many. There's only been two book clubs where we had to move it to Sunday, but we will never miss a week. We're always there. Please register. The link will be in the show notes. We will inform you if anything changes Because I have Brandon emailing the people that have registered Before the book club and limitless by Jim quick, we're doing one chapter at a time. Chapter one is excellent, powerful Story. We hope to see you there tomorrow for episode number 1417.

Speaker 1:

One feeling we all need. I had. Again, it's weird where these episodes come from. Sometimes these episodes something happens in my life and I think to myself oh, that would be a really, really good episode. Hopefully this one will be as always. We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we did on a fans. We have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow. Dial in those trauma responses.

Speaker 2:

Next explanation you.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host