Next Level University

#1465 - Juggling Emotion And Logic

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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The art of decision-making is often a delicate balance between emotion and logic. Whether deciding on mundane issues like what to eat or more significant matters, it's common to find ourselves in a decision-making limbo, swinging between emotional instincts and logical reasoning. In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about how we can master the art of decision-making, blending emotion and logic. They discuss that it is crucial to recognize whether we are emotional beings who think or thinking beings who feel. This insight can significantly improve our communication and relationships, providing a clearer understanding of how we process information and make decisions.

Links mentioned:
Learn more about group coaching: https://nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
#10 - How to Focus Only on What Matters Most: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-how-focus-only-what-matters-most-alan-lazaros

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Show notes: 
[2:11] Logical vs. emotional
[8:42] Emotional person that thinks or thinking person that has emotions
[12:15] Bianca, the co-founder and COO of Evolve Ventures, talks about Alan's unwavering support as her coach and the profound impact of mentorship on her life
[13:18] The rider or the elephant
[18:25] Alan's four rules in his coaching
[23:45] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode, episode number 1,464. The hardest thing to learn about love. I know that episode was a heavy one, but heart driven, but no BS. That is always our goal today for episode number 1,465, juggling emotion and logic.

Speaker 1:

So right before we hit the record button, alan said what is the story for this? Where did you come up with this idea? And I said I don't have a specific story. I have more of a, an analogy or an example or an anecdote. I don't know if anecdote is accurate, but it sounds cool, so I'm gonna use that word. A Lot of the references, alan, come from you and I Working together over what is coming up on almost seven years.

Speaker 1:

Wild, if you believe that or not. That is crazy. There would be times where you would say it's not optimal or it is optimal, right, it's not optimal to do that, it is optimal to do it this way. And I remember having a conversation with you and I said you have to understand I don't always care what is the most logical thing to do. Sometimes I want to do the emotional thing, even if it's not logical, even if, okay, let's do this. We we have been having audio issues that we thought we fixed. So thank you for all of you. Thank you to all of you who have been sticking around through the massive amounts of static we have.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully, in this episode doesn't sound that way. We got new mixers, the whole thing. But last night I went over to Bianca's house to pick up one of our mixers and I was like I'm here, I'm gonna hang out with B for a while. Logically, I shouldn't order pizza. I Should, I'm. I'm dieting. Logically, it doesn't make any sense. I shouldn't do this. I should say I'm gonna be good B, let's just get salad. Emotionally, I haven't spent time with B in years. I don't. I don't know the last time I spent one-on-one time with Bianca. I have no idea. It's been a long, long, long time. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

In my mind it wasn't optimal to do that and I stayed later than I expected. That wasn't optimal, but emotionally it felt right. Mm-hmm. That is really what I want this episode to be about. Are you overly logical, are you and I'm not making that wrong Are you overly emotional? I'm not making that wrong, and what would it take for you to drive to five from your respective Place? I used to be overly emotional, for sure. I Don't think I've ever gone overly logical, but I'm trying to drive to five. Last night I was more on the emotional side, but I do believe there's a time and a place for that. Mm-hmm I've had that before. Where it's the thought comes up of I should really go to bed. But if I'm hanging out with somebody I haven't seen in a long time, I'm probably gonna push that logic aside and go with emotion in that. So that's really what I want this episode to be about, and I think that's the best example I can use to start.

Speaker 2:

I think everyone is On one end of this pendulum or the other been this month. A lot of pendulum analogies, pendulum, I'm convinced the drive to five is just a pendulum that swings and you're always trying to swing it to the center, but it still swings. It just doesn't swing as far and again the way that I work with clients, when I first I Just got a new client, actually when I first meet a new client, I'm always asking myself this question. We have this framework. We created a long time ago. We used to talk about it all the time physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. Those are the four Facets of every one of us. We have a physical part of us, we have a mental part of us, we have an emotional part of us, we have a spiritual part of us. The physical part of us is obviously our body In its simplest form. The mental part of us is our brain. The emotional part of us is our heart, metaphorically, and then the spiritual part of us is our spirit, our energy. And I'm always asking myself is this client an Emotional being who also thinks, or a thinking being who also has emotions? Now it sounds like a little nuance, but it's a world of difference. Let me explain, and all of us know.

Speaker 2:

If you've ever spoken to an engineer who has a really hard time articulating their thoughts, you know what I'm talking about, and I went to school with a lot of engineers pretty much all engineers and I coached one of them one time. His name's Udit shout out to Udit. Udit is a logical being who also has emotions, and now, for anyone out there who has studied the neuroscience, I realized that all of us need emotions to make decisions. This is high level on purpose. Please don't take what I'm saying as, like you know, gospel. So what I'm saying, though, is that he focuses more on rationality. I'm reading a book right now by Daniel Pink called Rationality. I'm also reading a biography by Albert Einstein not by Albert Einstein, but about Albert Einstein. So he's a rational think of all of us as like on one extreme, we are robots and on the other extreme, we're what I would call an emotional train wreck. We are all dancing between those two extremes, and we all know that. If you've ever spoken to a computer engineer I'm a computer engineer you know, intellectually, intuitively, that I am more on the robotic side. I track my habits, I'm very goal setting. I tell Kevin that's not optimal. But I also got pizza last night too, and that was not optimal, and I know that. So I have an emotional part of me and I have a rational part of me, a logical part of me. We all do.

Speaker 2:

Which one do you tend to let drive the car more? That's really what it is. We're all in a car and we all have a pilot and a co-pilot. Kevin's pilot is his emotions and his co-pilot is his rationality of hey, by the way, maybe you shouldn't order two pizzas with pepperonis on them. But the emotion part is like, well, I don't know. I mean, that would be really delicious. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2:

And then the logical part is like, yeah, but that's more money, that's more calories. Then you're gonna have to diet more later, then you're not gonna be as in shape at the next level. Live next to Allen, whatever. Whatever. It's not a big deal, but for me it would be the opposite. For me it would be what are the macros in this pizza? I got a pizza with pineapple grilled chicken and I know the macros, I know the amount of calories. Yes, pineapple's on a pizza Kev doesn't like it. A lot of people do. We did a poll in the next level nation once Do pineapple believe belong on pizza? Do pineapple believe it? Do pineapples belong on pizza? And the consensus, kevin is the consensus. Yes, I believe so. Thank you, amy L, by the way, for posting that, because I needed that validation.

Speaker 2:

No, but everyone who listens to this show consistently and if you're a new listener this might not resonate yet, but it will it's obvious to anyone that I use more logic than Kev and Kevin use more emotion than me. I am more logically well-developed than Kevin. Kevin is more emotionally well-developed than me. That's okay. It's because obviously you get good at what you do. You get good at what you are. If I'm playing basketball and he's playing baseball, obviously I'm gonna be better at basketball, he's gonna be better at baseball. That's kind of what this is. So are you an emotional? This is a self-awareness time. Are you an emotional person who also thinks, or are you a thinking person who also has emotions? If you're a listener of our show, you most likely are on Kevin's end not always, but most likely on Kevin's end, where you're emotional and you also think versus. I think I'm extremely, extremely, extremely logical with pretty much every decision I make and don't make, but I think that that's just the mathematics.

Speaker 1:

When you get stressed. I think that's when things really I don't know. I was gonna say that's when you do the opposite, but probably not. That's when I'm way more emotional when I'm stressed.

Speaker 2:

I mean get rid of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was part of it last night is you and I were. I went down to Alan's and we were trying to fix the audio and it we I mean I was there from 10 am Until 6 30. I think and we just figured out at the end we didn't even record any episodes. That was the goal and and I said I was like dude, I don't care about the diet, the logic just goes out the window at a certain point. But this is what I'll say. It's not the way it. It's not as Detrimental as it used to be.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, can you go into that what?

Speaker 1:

was it like I mean before, it would just be, it would be. I'd get more hijacked by my mind, by my emotions. At least yesterday it was an option when I had a moment where when I was driving to Bianca's I said if I wasn't going here I probably would just go home and eat something at home. But I'm here, so I'm gonna do this. Already that, but in in the past it was very much, yeah, just hijacked it. I'm stressed out. I need Blank, I need Pizza, I need whatever, because I'm definitely an emotional eater. Now Usually I can control that. It's not that big of a deal for me, luckily, but now it is. It's more the thought of. I Almost try to. I'll get Emotional with my decisions and then I try to logic myself out of the emotion of do you really want to drive 20 minutes to Taco Bell? Do you really want to wait in line? The food's always wrong every time and it takes so long. Do you really want to do that? You're gonna go out to your car. You're gonna have to put real clothes on that. It's gonna cost you 50 bucks because you like your tacos. So I try to. I try to logic myself out of emotion, but it doesn't always work, but it works, now more more than ever. So that would be my early next level nugget is, if you find yourself on the emotional end, I Would try to sell yourself on the opposite.

Speaker 1:

So imagine somebody came up to you and said, hey, I'm really thinking of they. They had the same exact circumstances as you. Maybe they're trying to save money, maybe they're trying to watch what they eat, eat less fast food, whatever it is, not waste the food they have at home. So same circumstances. And they came to you and you had to sell them on the opposite action. So what would you say to them? You probably say do you really want to drive 15 minutes each way to Taco Bell and then wait? And the food's not that great. I think it is. I think it's the best in the world, but that's just my take. Do you Want to spend money? It's already seven o'clock by the time you eat. It's gonna be 745. You're going to bed at nine. You're not gonna feel good when you go to bed. So I think that would be my next level nugget to try to sell yourself on the opposite. An early one, but my next level nugget there's a.

Speaker 2:

So Kevin's wife, taryn, is a behavioral analyst, behavioral Analyst, behavior analyst, behavior analyst. There's a book called switch that I know she's read as well, and it talks about this analogy of a rider and an elephant, and the rider is what's referred to as executive function in the brain, which is rationality, logic, and the rider can't overpower the elephant. That's, that's the idea. So what Kevin is kind of saying is Try to listen to your rider a little bit more. If you are allowing the elephant to drive, the idea here is that if there's peanuts off the path and, by the way, the path in this analogy. This is a book called switch, where it talks about the elephant, the rider in the path. Okay, so the rider is logic, the elephant is emotion, and the path is what you actually want out of life. The path is the process to which getting your goals. So let's use Kevin as an example. What were you supposed to do in terms of calories per day? Quote-unquote supposed to, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I took a pretty. I have taken a pretty aggressive amount. So 1500 calories per day is my goal.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so your goal was 1500 calories to. So in this analogy or this example, I should say let's assume the path is 1500 calories per day. Okay, in other words, if Kevin wants to achieve, what weight were you going for? I? Don't really, I'm just dieting, okay you were going for a pound a week, though.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I'd like more than a pound a week. Honestly, I probably like a pound and a half a week, but okay.

Speaker 2:

So Kevin's goal was to lose a pound and a half a week. For how many weeks? For eight weeks, okay, this is all logic now. Okay, I want to look. Executive function rider only, logic only. I want to lose a pound and a half a week for eight weeks, which is gonna be 12 pounds, 12 pounds. Okay. Now, all of a sudden, life happens. Kevin comes down to my place I've got him being a plumber and an audio editor and an audio technician and we need the mixer from Bianca's place because we gave it to her when we got our new ones and he's stressed and, and Taren's not gonna be home till 10. So he's like whatever, I haven't spent time with being a long time, this 1500 calorie thing, which is the path, the correct path, the optimal path, the quote-unquote path to your goal Is 1500 calories. Now again, no shame. How many calories did you end up eating?

Speaker 1:

So here's the interesting thing. No, no, I probably had. I had three slices of pizza and like four fries, so I actually probably did hit my goals. Oh oh, so well, it's good. I think that's a really good way you were going. I probably should have preface that I Definitely didn't. No.

Speaker 2:

I did, I woke up.

Speaker 1:

Today I probably hit 3000, for sure of my one of my new lows and again, it doesn't the day-to-day thing that we'll do an episode on that at some point. But that's also the thing is okay. Sometimes your emotion runs and you make an emotional decision. It's not too late to insert or inject logic. Yeah, and I kind of had that moment of I'm driving an hour after this. I don't want to eat a whole pizza, I'm gonna feel terrible in the right. I don't probably fall asleep, so that I've had that to where I'll go get 3000 calories worth of Taco Bell and then I'll say, okay, what can I actually eat here to hit my calories? I'll just save the rest for tomorrow. It's not the end of the world. I love cold Taco Bell, so it is that the awareness of it is super important the awareness that Just because you make a decision does not mean the decision is final, and there's always a little.

Speaker 1:

There's always an opportunity To inject some logic or emotion if that's what you need. But you have to be aware of what you're like. Alan said what your normal go-to is, what is your default setting. Mine is emotion. It's more logic than it's ever been and I now can pause and stop myself and redirect myself because of the awareness. But the way I'm wired, I'm probably always gonna be more wired that way. But it doesn't mean you can't control. Well, I want to better.

Speaker 2:

I want to flip the script here, because you used to have a fitness coach way back in your bodybuilding days. I did, and your desire to not disappoint your coach Kept you on the path. That's still emotion. You didn't want to disappoint him and that is an emotional decision. So that's what coaching really is. For those of you out there listening, it's If you were to coach with Kevin or myself Kevin for podcasting, me for business or peak performance, let's say you're tracking habits and and the habits are on the path, you're going to stay on the path because you don't want to disappoint us, more than because of your logic. It's almost a way to get your elephant to stay on the path Without having to use as much logic, because that's what a coach does, is that they are the logic, they are the strategy, at least for me I'm. I had a person reach out to me and say I know that you're the coach for me because I need your mind, even though I'm already good on the energy, spiritual side, and I said, except 100%, I'm not going to give you any of that really. I mean some in and out, but really what it is is here's what you want, here's the path to get there and let me keep you on the path.

Speaker 2:

I have four rules in my coaching. The first one is stop the wrong trains, in other words, the person's places, things and ideas that you shouldn't be doing or spending time in or investing in. Start the right trains is number two, which is get around the right people, do the right things, start the right trains. And then number three is improve the train, the right trains. And then the last one is never lose momentum, aka, stay on the path, stay on the path, stay on the path, stay on the path. That doesn't mean you never fall off the path. The elephant is gonna see peanuts over in the corner, hundred percent, and it's gonna go get them. And then you're gonna have to wake up the next guy and go. Okay, all right, you know 3000 calories, pizza was delicious. I gotta get back on track. The point is never. There's no one on earth who'd never falls off. That is a facade. That's not real.

Speaker 2:

Kevin and I were supposed to record seven episodes yesterday. We recorded zero episodes, exactly zero, exactly zero. But here we are the next morning recording. So you're gonna fall off just like we do. The key is to get back on quicker and better each time, and I think that's what personal growth is. And so, whether it's logic, which is the rider trying to steer the elephant back on the path, or whether it's emotion, just making sure you're putting the peanuts on the path, that's the cheat code, I think, is keep the peanuts on the path. I told you, amelia, recently if you're not fulfilled, we're not gonna be able to grind. We need to throw some adventures in here, otherwise you're gonna be unfulfilled and you're not gonna be able to grind this out, because we're building towards a lot of big, big goals. So Hopefully that's helpful for what's your next level?

Speaker 1:

nugget. And also, real quick, my apologies to you, whether you're watching or listening, if I'm not super present. I am the tech guy, so I'm freaking out internally because I don't know what this sounds like and I'm losing my mind that I'm looking at the mixer. So my apologies if I'm, if I seem off today. You crushed it, brother. I appreciate all good.

Speaker 2:

What's your next level nugget, sir? My next level nugget is everyone, I believe, is on one of these two sides, and it's important to know which side you're on. You are either a Emotional creature who also thinks, or you are a thinking creature who also has emotions. Obviously we're both both, but in this case it's important to know whether you're ready to ready or lefty.

Speaker 1:

Strong work, next level nation, if you are looking for a healthy mix of both, both logic and emotion. The 12th round which blows my mind, the 12th round of group coaching is starting on October 10th. So I am the emotional side when we do that, allen is the logical side, and then we meet in the middle and cater it to everybody in the group. So if you feel like you need more logic, it would be great for you. If you feel like you need more emotion, it would also be great for you, because that's really where I come in and Jesse does a really great job of that as well. So if you're interested, we'll have the link in the show notes. With the discount code it ends up being $96 and 60 cents per month again, a very, very affordable Program and it is hyper, hyper valuable. So we did not say we were gonna charge a thousand dollars a person. We want it to be affordable so you can actually do it and we would love to have you in the group.

Speaker 2:

In that we are both ready and lefty. We are ambidextrous. To Kevin's point, he's more on the emotional side with Jesse, I'm more on the logical side. You're gonna get both, and so you'll be able to work on whichever one you're your weaker in, which is really really good, and you'll be able to double down in your strengths as well. And when it comes to not wanting to let the team down, that's a very, very powerful way to make sure that your emotions stay on the path. That's been really powerful the, the social accountability, the belonging, the, the not wanting to be Someone who is not supporting the team's goals. It's kind of a little collective. So if you're, if you're willing to let yourself down and break promises to yourself, you might be pleasantly surprised with how well you show up for yourself, for the team. That's what we've found in these 11 rounds and I really, really encourage you to do that. Also, if you are more On the emotional side, that we created a blog and the blog has I'm trying to have it be a good mix of emotion and logic, but it's kind of Written by a logical engineer for an emotional person.

Speaker 2:

A lot of my clients are listeners of this show, tend to be on the emotional side. That's why the thinking part is very helpful for people. The latest blog we have 10 up there. Go up, go to the blog page. The landing page will be in the show notes and there's 10 different ones. Pick the one that you're most drawn to and I can promise you, after you read it, whatever it is, well, it will be a powerful Mental framework. The blog is how to. On the podcast, we talk about what and why and how and who and all of that. The blog is just how. How do you stay on track towards your goals? How do you fail forward? How do you get to the top of your mind? You fail forward. How do you be courageous and vulnerable? How do you XYZ? Everything is how and it's a lot of logic, but it's written for emotional people, so hopefully that will help you tomorrow for episode number 1466 what your boundaries teach you about yourself.

Speaker 1:

saw a very powerful post about this the other day and I figured we do an episode on it, so we will do that tomorrow. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2:

Stay emotional and rational. Next one nation.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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