Next Level University

#1492 - One Huge Thing To Understand When You're Fear-Chasing

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Fear, an emotion we all experience, often acts as a roadblock in our journey towards personal growth and content creation. In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about gathering proof, receiving feedback, and gaining new perspectives that would have been impossible to acquire without facing the fear in the first place. They discuss that chasing fear can mean something other than achieving immediate results. It's not about the result but the effort, the proof, and the feedback you receive along the way.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level U Book Club - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-book-club/

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Show notes:
[4:21] Put in the effort and get feedback
[7:21] Alan talks about his first Youtube video
[12:10] Face the fear regardless of the outcome
[13:18] Nicole shares how Kevin and the Next Level Podcast Solutions team help her with her podcast seamlessly and provide a fantastic experience. 
[14:15] Kevin shares a story about fear-chasing
[19:49] Identify the fear and admit it
[23:56] How fragile is your ego?
[29:03] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode. It was episode number 1491. Take the training wheels off. You're supposed to take the training wheels off. It was one of those two. I don't remember which one it was today.

Speaker 1:

For episode number 1492 one huge thing to understand when you're fear-chasing. So if you have listened to this podcast before, you may or may not have heard of a time in my life where my partner left me because I was very insecure and Unconsciously holding them back. That wasn't really my desire, but I was so afraid to get left behind that that's kind of what I did. So after my partner left me and moved across the country as they wanted to do, I went through this Weird phase of just being very alone, being very lonely, but starting to focus on growth. I remember I one of the first videos on quote-unquote self-improvement I did on Instagram was life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. And I'll never forget I had my my phone.

Speaker 2:

On the county on OG that's an OG, that's an OG. That was the first I had, the first one.

Speaker 1:

I had my my phone on the Counter above my sink At my place?

Speaker 2:

was it like the?

Speaker 1:

iPhone 5, 4. I don't know what we were rocking back then it was an old one for sure, but I was into self-improvement. That was me dipping my toe into self-improvement. And I Remember one day I just felt, I Don't know, I was just sick of feeling bad for myself. I Got to that point where it was like all right, you've, you've put your your head in the sand for long enough, you've pouted for long enough. We have to get some momentum here. We're gonna, we gonna start trying different stuff because We've worked our way through the heartbreak and we're gonna be okay. But we got to make things okay.

Speaker 1:

So I remember one day I was home from work I don't know if it was on the weekend or if I was just off work and I said you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to the mall and I am gonna go get some new wardrobe and when I'm there I'm just gonna have conversations with strangers, because I don't Especially women. I'm gonna have conversations with women. There's gonna be women at the mall, most likely. I'm gonna have conversations with women. This was long before I was married with an amazing wife and I said this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get some nice clothes on, I'm gonna stop and get a coffee and I'm gonna just gonna roll in high vibe and just have conversations with people. I Couldn't tell you whether or not I had a single conversation with an attractive human. I couldn't tell you how well it went. I couldn't tell you how badly it went, because what we're talking about today is what I was focused on back then.

Speaker 1:

One huge thing to understand when you're fear chasing it's not about the result, it's about the effort. I, when I'm talking to people, when I'm working with people, I always tell them I do not care what the result is, I don't care at all. I don't care if you get the result or you don't. The behavior, the practice, the Getting outside of your comfort zone, the effort is what I care about. Care about way more than the result, because If you didn't put the effort in, you'd never get any feedback. So if you do put the effort in, you don't get the result, that's totally fine, because you can put the effort back in again. And even in my story I don't remember how it went that day I assume it went somewhat well.

Speaker 1:

I definitely didn't meet anybody. I didn't start dating somebody right after that. I didn't get any numbers. I didn't Feel 10 out of 10 confident, but I did feel progress. The progress I felt was not because I got a result. The progress I felt was because I did something that I was uncertain that I could do, and that's fear chasing.

Speaker 1:

In a nutshell, a lot of the, a lot of the scary things I've had the opportunity slash courage to do over the last six years did not reward me with immediate results, but what they often gave me was proof. And that's really what we're looking for. When we're we're fear chasing. You're not really looking for results, you're looking for proof, you're looking for feedback, you're looking for a new perspective that you never would gain if you didn't face that fear in the first place. So if you're out there and obviously it's very hard to disconnect these if you're waiting to fear chase because you're afraid you're not gonna get the result you want, what could we do to change your expectations a little bit? That would be my initial next level nugget question, to start here. Because if you might not even be ready for the results yet and that's okay, you probably aren't Think about it If, if the first time you do something, you absolutely crush it, the odds of that are probably pretty low all things considered. Now, is it gonna go horribly wrong? No, probably not. Excuse me, alan and I were laughing a lot before this, for and now I'm I don't know, I'm all I'm losing it. So that's just my thought.

Speaker 1:

When I the first speech I ever gave, it went well. But I was more proud when I finished. That I'll never forget. I was like, oh my god, I'm so grateful, that's done. Awesome, I can go home now and relax. Let me unpack this later. It's done, it's over. The chapter is that chapter is done. The book is closed. We'll worry about the rest later. I wasn't really critical of my performance. I was more critical of the fact that I did it and I was really really proud of that. So that's really what I want this episode to be about, and I wanted to empower you, whether you're watching or listening, to say, okay, is it gonna go well? I don't know. I mean, yeah, I hope so. I hope it goes well, but I'll never know how it would have gone if I don't do it and if I can focus more on giving myself a pat on the back for doing something that scared the crap out of me, rather than focusing on the lack of trophy. I think that's a really good place to start.

Speaker 2:

So I have a story that I want to share with everybody that I don't think I've ever shared on the podcast, which is I have talked for the new listeners. You won't recognize this, so I'll provide some context for the old listeners you will. I had a series called the Real Life Superheroes series. It was on YouTube. It was way, way, way back and it was my very first YouTube video and I've been with many clients who want to publish blogs or they want to start a YouTube channel, or they want to do XYZ, start a podcast, and they're scared, understandably. And I say as someone who's a podcaster, who has hundreds thousands, whatever of episodes. I didn't start there and it's very important for you to see my first video. So while I have taken this off of the internet publicly, I do still have it on listed on my YouTube channel so I can still send it to you and if anyone wants to see it, you can reach out Alan at NextLubbleUniversecom. It is. I'm very clearly petrified. I'm reading from my notes. I'm saying um 8,000 times in between every word it was not good. I do think the content was good, but the delivery was awful. But it was my first time. So again, fear chasing. I was definitely petrified. The part of the story that I have never shared before and I didn't even think about it until you were talking, kev. I actually had another recording that was before that that I never put on YouTube. The one that I'm referring to, that I sent to people, is on YouTube. I just made it on listed, I put it private and I still have it on there. There was one that never saw the light of day on YouTube because I was in a really hefty bulk back then and I remember the first time I saw myself on camera I was so. It was such a big mirror for me. It was so bad that I I literally went on a cut just to get to the point where I did even that first YouTube video. I remember I lost like 25 pounds before I would get back on camera, but I'll never forget it.

Speaker 2:

I was at my old alma mater. I was at WPI. I was in an old classroom and this is different than the one that you would see in the video if you saw the video that is on listed. But anyways, I had one of my old friends that I grew up with. His name is Ryan, he's a director, and he told me what equipment to buy the lapel mics, the lights I still use similar lights to back then, but I didn't know what the heck I was doing. So he helped me set this whole thing up right, this whole production, and for him that was a walk in the park because he had already done some other films, gone to film school etc.

Speaker 2:

So I end up on camera, he's there and I am petrified. I even was vulnerable. I didn't know what vulnerable meant back then because this is my late 20s, probably 27, maybe 28. And I said to myself before I said this to him is I'm not gonna be able to do this with him here, I'm not gonna be able to record this with him here, because he was behind the camera. Kev, excuse me, I'm burping, but I remember thinking to myself like I don't want him here to do this. This is awful. I don't know what I'm gonna say. I'm stuttering, things I'm saying aren't making sense, etc. Etc.

Speaker 2:

And I ended up eventually sharing that with him. I said I think I need to do the first one myself. I'm just too scared with you behind the camera. And he totally respected that. He had directed films, actors were scared and stuff like that, and so he did. He respected it. What I didn't tell him which I now would tell him is I feel like I'm fat as a cat on this freaking camera and I need to go lose some weight before I do this YouTube series. And I did. I went and I dieted and I cut and I probably lost 15 to 20 pounds and then the real life superheroes won that. If you do want to see it. It's my very first YouTube video that I published Technically my second, and it's just awful.

Speaker 2:

It's just awful. But to wrap this all in a bow, I was fear, chasing yes back then. I wanted it to be good, which, in hindsight, I think was a mistake. What I should have cared about is that I did it. If I could go back and talk to myself I kid you not I would say all I care about is that you get it done and publish it. That's it. That's it.

Speaker 2:

The publishing part is hard Because your first content is super embarrassing. It really is. It's so embarrassing. If your first content is not embarrassing, you probably are way better than most people when they start. The LinkedIn CEO had a great quote. I forget his name, but he said if you're not embarrassed by your first launch. You launched too late. And what he's really trying to say there underneath that is that everyone's embarrassed by their first blog, everyone's embarrassed by their.

Speaker 2:

I have 17 or 18 articles that I wrote that aren't even public anymore. I think I have them in Google Docs somewhere. You know, now I'm 12 blogs in. Those are the ones that I actually consider good enough to tie the next level brand to the old ones, aren't? That was all just practice, reps, and I think it's important for all of us to remember that again. We talk about this at all the time, but at the beginning, face the fear, do the thing regardless of the outcome, publish it. And if you can face the fear of publishing it and you can handle that potential criticism, that potential failure, that potential judgment, if you can handle that potential embarrassment embarrassment is one of the worst things and if you can handle that, you will succeed. If you can stick with it, you will, because a lot of people never get past the embarrassment phase.

Speaker 1:

I told this in. I think it was at the meetup. One of our last meetups was on relationships Back in the day when I used to live in Worcester, worcester, massachusetts. Worcester is the second biggest city in Massachusetts. Did you know that?

Speaker 2:

I think I did, but not something I think about often. Well, now you can.

Speaker 1:

Do you know the? Amount of the population no, no, maybe 700,000, something like that, 700,000 maybe.

Speaker 2:

That was where I went to college, so I know it's bigger than people think for sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So we all used to go to the same gym. Myself, alan, matt, a lot of our friends, like that whole crew, bianca used to go there. The whole crew went there for a long time and Matt and I lived very close and there was this girl who I'd always see there and I thought she was beautiful and I kept saying to myself one of these days I'm going to ask her to lunch, I'm going to ask her to coffee or whatever it is, and Alan at some point will probably start laughing at me, not because he hates me, just because he laughs when I tell stories like this from the past. But every day, every time, I would see her in there and I'd say, ah, today's the day. And then I'd just come up with some excuses like nah, nah, nah, today I'm wearing sweatpants today. Like, well, you wear sweatpants at the gym every day, so I don't know, you're gonna wear jeans tomorrow, sir.

Speaker 1:

But it got to the point where I kept regretting it. I had so much regret around ah, you let yourself down again. Ah, you let yourself down again. Are you ever gonna do it? Like what would have to happen in order for you to actually work up the courage to do it, and I always would leave so regretful and in shame honestly in shame. And one day I saw her and I said that today's it, and I'm pretty sure you and Matt were there and I was like I'm doing it.

Speaker 2:

I was there that day definitely yeah, I think I said it, I'm doing it today.

Speaker 1:

Whatever, I'm gonna do it today and I'll never forget she was on the pull down machine at the gym doing back and one of the other things too, and I want to put this out there. I don't want to say I had a reputation at that gym, but I knew a lot of people and I didn't want people to think I was just going up to people and hitting on them at the gym like I knew a lot of people there and I always wanted to be respectful and I was friends with a lot of girls in that gym, so I never wanted to come off as a creep, so that was a part of it as well. So I just wanted to throw that out there. So I walk up and I say, hey, you're very beautiful, I've seen you here many, many times and I would love the opportunity to take you out to lunch or coffee or whatever. And she said, oh, I appreciate that so much and this could be a lie, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I chose to think it wasn't. I don't think it was. I do think she has a boyfriend. I know she did and I think she's still dating the same person. Shout out that's good, good for her. Shout out to that person.

Speaker 2:

I think she was friends with B and I think B said Bianca and I think Bianca said she did have a boyfriend.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, this is all correct. This is all correct. Now, did it make it feel any better? I don't know. So I go up to her and I say that and she looks at me and says I appreciate that so very much. Well, I think you're handsome, I have a boyfriend and I appreciate the thought, and I remember leaving that day feeling super happy, not because of the result, but because I did something that I didn't think was possible for me and that gave me a new level of confidence, and I definitely saw her in there after and it wasn't a big deal. It's like whatever it is what it is.

Speaker 2:

It is what it is.

Speaker 1:

Am I going to run from this for the rest of my life? I don't think that's healthy, I don't think that's sustainable, I don't think that's going to serve me. So, even in that example, I was sad, definitely, but I was more excited that I did the action, that I was sad that I didn't get the result I wanted from the action.

Speaker 2:

I think that's important. Oh, I thought you were done. I'm sorry. That's hilarious. I haven't missed one of those in a minute man.

Speaker 1:

Kevin and I usually have a good that was pretty bad. Yeah, that was a bad one. I didn't even pause. I was in the middle of a sentence. He's trying to tell us about a book. If this book I'm telling you right now, I'm going to turn the camera and the microphone off. If this book is, if it's from Theodore Roosevelt.

Speaker 2:

Albert Einstein or somebody from 100 years ago? No, no, it's not. Oh, I haven't done a blunder like that in a minute. That was fun for me. I used to do that all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely so there's a book. Alan, you see interrupts people all the time. Remember, we used to have a writing joke.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could even listen. Yeah, yeah, okay, brutal, Brutal. Some good dialogues, but brutal. So the book that I was referring to is called Courage is Calling no-transcript. That's what I love about books, it's just you like, package an idea and now it has something to tangibly attach to you know. And it's by Ryan holiday, called courage is calling. It's one of the four virtues.

Speaker 2:

He did a book called discipline is destiny, courage is calling. There's two others coming out. I forget what they are, but the point is Courage requires that you own, that you are afraid, and I think that that's the part that a lot of people screw up. I definitely did so. I've said this before, but Kevin interviewed me a couple months ago. We're up for a couple more interviews soon. I know I wish you that, but I Told Kev asked me a question.

Speaker 2:

It was what did you not understand about yourself Back then that you now realize and I said that I'm deeply fearful that Some people don't identify as being super fearful? Kev's always been really honest I'm super afraid, like I'm petrified. No, I don't want to do that. That's terrible. I Wasn't like that. I didn't think I was that afraid, but deep underneath it I was afraid of other things. I was afraid of judgment, for sure. I was definitely afraid to be disliked, for sure, but I didn't know that consciously, and so, anyways, if you can identify the fear, whatever it is Like, okay, let's dig into this situation with this. This girl at the gym Okay, you're afraid of rejection? Okay, well, why let's?

Speaker 1:

do it. Why? Why am I afraid of rejection? Yeah, because I don't think I'm worthy of getting an attractive meet.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I would say went deep there.

Speaker 1:

Okay, why, of course, again, probably going back to being short, I think that's like the biggest thing for me.

Speaker 2:

Right underneath all of it is some deep insecurity. Hmm, yeah, and this woman was short too right, she was shorter than you.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's by design, son. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But at the end of the day, if you identify the fear, you're more likely to fear chase, because otherwise, otherwise, you're gonna be stuck forever. You, you can't break free from that imaginary fear and Maybe it is valid fears too. I know there's valid fears but you're not gonna break free without courage and I don't think you're gonna Need courage or or ignite courage unless you actually admit you're afraid. And so hopefully that's helpful for people, because I've noticed this happened a lot actually with coaching. All coaching really is is identifying what someone's afraid of, identifying what they want and then realizing that why they're not getting what they want is because of some fear they're not facing and Some rationalization of why that is. And so you kind of say, well, okay, well, maybe you're just fearful of this. And they'll always say like, oh no, I don't think I'm afraid. It's like, oh, you seriously don't think you're afraid. Like, of course you are. It's okay, I'm not attacking you. But then we unpack it, we unpack it, we unpack it and eventually you realize, oh, I am afraid.

Speaker 2:

And so fear is usually the root of pretty much every reason why you're not taking action, whether it's asking a girl or asking a guy or, you know, doing that speech or posting that video. It's always fear. I mean, why don't you post the video? I'm afraid I look fat on camera. Okay why? Well, I'm afraid that my friends are gonna judge me for looking fat on camera. Okay why? Because then I'm gonna feel Embarrassed. Okay why? Because I care what my friends think. Okay why, why? Because I never felt lovable or like I fit in and you can just keep going and keep going and eventually you're like, oh, I'm just afraid and what's the worst that could happen? I get embarrassed, I get it's not like you're gonna be actually in danger.

Speaker 2:

Post a YouTube video. You're not. You're not in any actual harm, you know, unless it's a really, really terrible YouTube video, but it's just mostly irrational fear. And if you can, if you can identify that and then have courage I Mean the world really does open up to you. Not all at once, but you just get a little less afraid. A little less afraid, maybe not less afraid. Maybe you get more confident. Maybe that's a better way to put it. The more you use courage, the more you fear chase, the more you'll be confident.

Speaker 1:

I think you become less fragile. Yeah, whatever fragile means to you, it's just I got outright rejected by someone I wanted to date, and it wasn't the end of the world. It's like, wow, okay, that's not that bad, that's not that bad at all, I can deal with this, this isn't that big of a deal. And then that gives you it's just a new platform where you can see new opportunities. And then you go to the next level. Again. It doesn't mean.

Speaker 1:

The next thing I did was try to give a speech in front of 10,000 people. It was okay. What's the next thing? I don't remember what the next thing was, but I'm sure it was something in alignment with trying to find someone to date or sending messages for guests on the podcast or whatever. Whatever it is. I mean, you know how many times we've been rejected by guests for the podcast. That's happened. When I say I couldn't tell you, I could not tell you Hundreds, thousands probably at this point. So that's another piece of it. When that happens, it's almost like it just gives you. Maybe it's like in a video game where you think it's your last life, but it's not. You have another life and you have another life and you have another life and then you can start the level from where you started before. It's like the save point of a level. Okay, cool, I got past that and that's almost my new maintenance Save point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's my new save point.

Speaker 1:

It's my new save point. Okay, I've already got rejected by the girl. I'm past that. That was the last level. Now I'm at a new level. Yeah, I mean, does it suck? Yeah, will it hurt my self-esteem? Maybe, but I do believe the lessons you take from it will be more valuable than the results you would have gotten in the first place.

Speaker 2:

I really, really, really do what's your next level, nugget, my next level, nugget. Thank you for asking. You're very welcome. You said the word fragile and, at the risk of any listener or viewer feeling called out, I'm saying this to help you, I promise.

Speaker 2:

Ask yourself a simple question how fragile is my ego? Because I didn't know it, but in hindsight, my ego is so fragile in comparison. Again, I've grown a lot. So, in comparison, what does that mean? It means who you think you are, or who you want to believe you are, matters to you more than who you really are, and really, what it means is you're so afraid to be ridiculed or judged or embarrassed, because maybe, deep down, you believe that you're not good enough, or maybe you believe you're unlovable, or whatever it might be. What's going to happen, though and this is the ironic part is that, when you face the fear, you're actually going to realize that you're stronger than you thought and that you're good and that you can handle it and you're going to grow. And so there's this concept called antifragile, and the idea is the more you attack something, the more you try to take something down, the stronger it gets. You ever see that really stupid movie Evolution? No Way back, sean Williams, scott, and this is like a late 90s no.

Speaker 2:

No All right, but there was this organism that was like the more you attacked it, the bigger it got. Anyways, it was a silly movie, it was a funny movie, I think, but essentially it was antifragile. The more that they attacked this thing and they found out that Selenium was its enemy and Selenium was in like head and shoulder shampoo.

Speaker 1:

It was a terrible movie. It was a terrible movie. Well, it's sponsored by Head and Shoulders. No, I don't know, maybe it was probably a product placement.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they like put Head and Shoulders shampoo in like a fire truck to take this thing down. Yeah, it was a silly movie, but the point is is that the more they attacked this thing, the bigger and stronger it got. I think we can be that way, obviously within reason. Don't go out of your way to get hurt, but you can't spend the rest of your life avoiding being hurt. And that's my next level, nugget.

Speaker 1:

My next level nugget would be what I opened with. The results do not matter nearly as much as the effort. And then maybe it gets to a point where you've done it enough, where the results start to matter. Maybe once you cross that threshold of this is not something that really scares me anymore now it's something I really want to practice intentionally. That's different. That's different. In the beginning I just wanted to do a speech and get it over with. Now I'm thinking about if I say this phrase in a certain way or if I pause before I say that, does it land differently? Now I care more about the outcome than I did in the beginning. For sure, because now I feel like I'm in control and I'm not doing it to chase a fear, I'm doing it to get better, I'm doing it to add value or whatever it may be. So eventually it'll cross that chasm where it goes from. I'm just doing this. I'm doing this for two results. One, fear chasing first. Results second. Eventually it'll pivot and then it's results first. Fear chasing second, if I'm even remotely afraid of this anymore, which I'm pretty much afraid of all the things. So I figured I'd throw that in there.

Speaker 1:

Next Level Nation, if you have not yet joined our private Facebook group, next Level Nation, please do. We would love to have you in there Again. One of the things we've learned over almost 1500 episodes, which is wild and just coaching so many people and studying and conversations and all that is. Your community has a bigger impact on you than you might even realize, and if you have people in your circle that are subconsciously holding you back, you're afraid of their judgment, you're afraid of going for what you believe in around them. You're probably not going to be as successful as you could be. So please join Next Level Nation, because you are safe to be a dream chaser in there.

Speaker 2:

If you want a limitless mindset with limitless motivation and limitless methods. We are reading a book by Jim Quick called Limitless talks about motivation, methods and mindset and it's every 12, every 1230,. It's every Saturday at 1230 PM Eastern Standard Time and we all get together Next Level Books with Next Level People and we discuss great books and we set intentions each week. It's awesome. You can participate as much or as little as you want. You don't have to have read the book. You don't have to have started the book with us. The link will be in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Tomorrow for episode number 1493,. Growth Can Be Lonely. I had a flashback the other day when I was in the shower. I've had a lot of deep thoughts in the shower recently and I'd like to amend that title.

Speaker 2:

What does that mean?

Speaker 1:

You want to change it.

Speaker 2:

It is lonely.

Speaker 1:

No, I don't. Yeah, it is often, but I think you and I have grown together and it hasn't been as lonely.

Speaker 2:

I was just being playful, I know. Yeah, it's both simultaneously, just don't.

Speaker 1:

Next time just don't.

Speaker 2:

Stop interrupting me, stop trying to change my damn titles.

Speaker 1:

I had a moment and I thought it would be a valuable episode. Even though we kind of touched on it, this was months and months and months ago. So, yeah, it was something that kind of shook me and I thought it would make for a good podcast episode. So we'll do that tomorrow. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we did it on a fans. We have family.

Speaker 2:

We'll talk to you all tomorrow, keep fear chasing, okay, mr crow, mr crow.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host