Next Level University

#1531 - One Question To Ask Yourself Before You Start A Vulnerable Conversation

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Vulnerability and difficult conversations are often viewed as something to avoid. They are seen as uncomfortable, confrontational, and generally unpleasant experiences. In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about how this universal feeling often deters us from expressing our truth. We fear the potential harm that our words may cause. We discuss the importance of timing, state of mind, and clarity of the truth we wish to express.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
To learn more about group coaching - https://nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/

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Show notes:
[2:21] What if it didn't land?
[3:51] What is your state?
[6:27] Better time
[8:39] Are you ready for the feedback? 
[13:05] Rebecca praises Alan's coaching and the effectiveness of the Peak Performance Tracker in keeping her consistent and moving toward her goals
[16:17] Keep having deep, vulnerable conversations
[19:31] It's an opportunity to grow
[23:48] Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Speaker 1:

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode. It was episode number 1,530, an important perspective shift when it comes to money. Today, rep Number 1,531, happy Saturday. One question to ask yourself before you start a vulnerable conversation. We had a Next Level Monthly Meetup. I believe it was our 24th month. Is that true?

Speaker 2:

23rd, the next one will be 24.

Speaker 1:

It's a shame, and we were talking about how to vulnerably express a truth I believe, or how to express a vulnerable truth whatever the exact title was, I'm not sure and I told Alan. I said I feel like there were so many good points in there that I would be sad if we didn't bring at least a couple to the podcast Because, as you know, a lot of I want to bring it up. I want to pull it up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, please, just so I can reference it yeah.

Speaker 1:

A lot more people listen to the podcast than come to the meetups. So I told Alan, I said I think that was some of our best stuff and I just think it would resonate with so many of the community members. So I want to share some. Expressing a vulnerable truth is hard enough and I imagine if you go to express a vulnerable truth and it gets shot down or it gets I don't want to say it just doesn't land the way you want it to and maybe you feel shame around it, maybe you feel embarrassment around it, maybe you feel like, oh, you know what? I worked up the courage, I worked up the fear chasing, I worked up to the fact where I was ready to talk about this thing or bring this thing up, and I got negative results, negative feedback. So my goal in today's episode is hopefully to help us all avoid that. So I want you to imagine this. I want you to imagine that you are in school and when we were in school, one of my favorite days was when we had our fire drill, because it means I didn't have to sit in class because I didn't like class. I love the fire drill Get outside, get a little fresh air, a little mayhem and then go back to it.

Speaker 1:

Unfortunately, sometimes fire drills took longer than others. The last thing you're going to do during a fire drill, when the fire alarm is going off, is trying to teach somebody something that is very, very, very hard to understand. It's a long division equation or something super challenging in biology. Because everybody is in a rush, everybody's state is thrown off. It's not exactly a good time to bring up something important, something meaningful In this scenario, this example, something vulnerable.

Speaker 1:

So the first thing that I would say is one question ask yourself, before you start a vulnerable conversation, do I have the required amount of time to actually have and play out the full conversation running joke between Tara and I? I tend to just bring things up at the least ideal times. We'll be getting ready to go out somewhere, she'll be getting ready to leave for work, or I'll be getting ready to get on a call and I'll just bring something up and she'll be like can you wait till later, when we actually have time to talk about it? And I always say absolutely yeah, I think that's probably a really good idea. It's not always vulnerable stuff, but sometimes it's just one of those things where I want to get it out into the world, or I want to get it off my chest, or I want to get the conversation rolling, but I don't always think of well, what's it like to be on the other end of that and you and I do that a lot where All the time, yeah, I'm guilty of that, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Same, I do it with Emilia, I do it with you, but I'm used to it. You record the sepisode.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I'm used to it at this point. So I think maybe that's part of where it comes from. Is you and I? We don't always have an opportunity to get to the truth, the truth, the truth, the truth in a 15-minute segment before we're supposed to record. So I think that's a piece of where it comes from.

Speaker 1:

But this is my thought for this episode. This is the value, hopefully, and an early, preemptive, next level nugget. What is your state like? Are you overwhelmed? Are you anxious? Are you super tired? Are you frustrated? Are you scarce? It might not be a time that's going to be successful for you to have a vulnerable conversation. Are you in a rush? That's one. This is what I like to think of this one.

Speaker 1:

Have you actually thought about what you're trying to get to with the conversation? I don't know about you, alan, but sometimes I'll have conversations and it's just I don't really know what I'm trying to say yet. I have to work through it. I have to work through it and odds are I might have been able to work through it on my own to make the conversation a little bit more constructive. That way, at least, I know where I want the conversation to go.

Speaker 1:

You've probably heard me say that many times I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Okay, keep digging, keep digging, keep digging, and then eventually we'll get to that. So, yeah, that's my thought. What is your state? Are you overwhelmed, are you anxious? Are you centered? Are you calm? Do you have enough time? Are you going somewhere in 15 minutes? So you're not going to be fully invested in the conversation, nor is your partner slash, whoever you're having this conversation with. And then what is the actual truth that you're trying to get to? I think those are one question times three that you could ask yourself.

Speaker 2:

The first thing to bring up here from my perspective, is the duality of there is never a perfect time, but there definitely is a better time. And on one extreme, you are always waiting for the perfect time, so you never bring up anything vulnerable and it just stews and you never solve it, when underneath that is probably just mostly fear, which is okay, but it's going to take courage to do it, because there's always going to be a reason why not to do it. And then, on the other extreme, you just I'll give you an example. So I was on a podcast right before this and we went right up to it. So he asked me you know, how much time do you have? I allocated the hour. I said I have 27 minutes. I'm trying to get better with time. I showed him my timer and at the end he said thank you so much for coming. I said thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2:

I enjoyed this conversation thoroughly, so thoroughly, in fact, that I got lost in flow and I am now late. And so he said, okay, no worries, he ended. It ended the Zoom. He wasn't going to bring something up. That's the worst time ever to bring up. Hey, by the way, I love the call and he knows that he'll connect with me another time.

Speaker 2:

So on one end you have you never bring anything up because you're scared and it's not the perfect time, and that's one extreme where you never really solve the root cause of your challenges and you live a surface level life, and that's a lot of people choose that unconsciously or consciously. And then, on the other end, you're constantly having deep conversations all the time, and you're often doing it when there isn't time, and I'm definitely farther on that end for sure, particularly with Kevin, emilia and team members different things like that, which is also one of the reasons I struggle with time so much. So ask yourself self-awareness which end are you on? Because if you're looking for the optimal time with the optimal person, with the optimal truth, and you're never willing to take a risk, you're in trouble.

Speaker 2:

But if you're constantly just spewing out and verbally processing all over everybody when it's inopportune, you're also going to really have trouble building great relationships.

Speaker 1:

That last, I have another question that I think is super valuable that I just thought of. Are you ready for the potential response from the person you're being vulnerable with? I know one of? I don't know exactly the way you framed it, but you've said in the past that you thought it was going to be a lesson for Emilia, but it ended up being a lesson for you, or you thought it was going to be a lesson for me and end up. Can you explain what that means and how that has evolved?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I joke. I like to be playful, so don't take this. I like to say playful in advance because I don't actually believe this fully. It's a playful truth. I say I've never met someone this is what I say to Emilia I've never met someone where I'm so right and then eventually wrong. And what I mean by that isn't that she's making me wrong or anything negative. I just I have a great point that is so valid and so accurate. But then I realize later that she was actually thinking more holistically and more long term and I also playfully say this woman is never wrong and I'm not from a sense of anything negative, but she's just.

Speaker 2:

As I get older and older and older, I have certain people who I just respect their opinion a lot less, and maybe respect their opinion is the wrong term, but I value their opinion less and less I do, because they're just inaccurate. They're not, they're not as aware With Emilia. I'm telling you, as I get older and older and older I'm four years into this relationship things she was telling me years ago are coming true. And so, to answer your original question, kev, long, long winded here, are you ready for the feedback that you're going to get when you bring up the vulnerable discussion. So Emilia and I have an unwritten rule in our relationship and we coach couples all over the world, and so we're very on the high end of these extremes, and I was telling Kev about this recently. Whenever we're frustrated about something, we bring it up, and I told Emilia this we were talking about it the other night, even though it's been a theme for the last four years. I said, sweetheart, every time you're frustrated with me or with life or with anything, do not suppress that. That's where all the potential is. If Kevin was frustrated with the audio quality and we now have way better audio quality it's because he was so annoyed and effing pissed off about Windows 11 and that popping noise that we had a few months ago. For the new listeners you won't remember. For the old listeners, you may or may not have noticed, but Kevin noticed it every single time and we tried to go back to my old laptop recently in Windows 11 and he was like no, absolutely not His frustration he brought up and then we did something about it.

Speaker 2:

Now, again, two extremes. One extreme is you're always looking for what you're frustrated about and you're always bringing up every frustration, and you can't exist with someone who's constantly a Debbie Downer. On the other extreme, you basically suppress all frustrations. You're always looking for the rainbows and butterflies, but nothing improves. And so, kev, I'll articulate this Emilia and I have an unwritten rule of every time we are frustrated, we think of it as unlocking potential.

Speaker 2:

She shares with me a frustration. I share with her a frustration. We come up with a solution and then we have a better life because of it, and those better choices and improvements compound forever. And so here's the key of it, though when I bring up a frustration like Emilia puts her gym bag in a certain spot, that's constantly in the way, and I bring it up I better be ready to hear what she's frustrated about too, and that's totally okay.

Speaker 2:

We have a very mature, very loving, playful relationship where I can playfully bring things up and she is like, yeah, that's fair, that's fair, but that's not optimal. I know that that's my bad, that's on me. We have a big time ownership relationship, but I better be. If I'm going to bring up XYZ that frustrates me, I better be ready for WYX coming back my way, and if she's going to take it with humility and vulnerability and courage and ownership, I better be ready to do the same. Don't step in the ring if you're not ready to get punched back. And again, obviously Emilia and I are not punching each other, so don't take that the wrong way. That's the wrong metaphor. It's more like playful sparring that is getting to a better outcome and we're both getting better versus actually attacking each other.

Speaker 1:

But I was trying to go and I appreciate that, I appreciate all the perspective and specificity. You said something before where you said I thought that was going to be a mirror for me, but it was a mirror for the other person, but it was a mirror for me. That's what I was trying to get at with that, where you and I have had very vulnerable conversations in the past. You'll bring something up to me and you'll say, hey, kev, this is kind of what I see and I'll be like, oh, you're completely wrong, I'm certain of it. Like I know, I'm more optimal. Trust me, I'm not based on the track record we both have. We trust that.

Speaker 1:

So all I was saying with that is you might feel like I'm going to bring something vulnerable up that's vulnerable because it's going to hurt the other person and they might have a completely different perspective of I appreciate and understand that's the way you're seeing it, but from my perspective, I am more optimal. Now, last, and I'll kick it to you after. But this is why the relationship is so important, because there has to be a dialogue after that. You and I have had so many what I would consider uncomfortable conversations, but you and.

Speaker 1:

I know each other so well at this point.

Speaker 2:

They used to be brutal. Now they're not bad.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I just want to be right. I want whatever is right to be right, not me, no, I don't have to be right.

Speaker 2:

I want us to live in the truth. That's the best next level nugget I've ever heard.

Speaker 1:

Just make sure you're right. Even when you're wrong, make sure you're right.

Speaker 2:

Even when you're wrong, just hold your ground. I genuinely.

Speaker 1:

Alan and I have a relationship where we just want to get to the truth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I same thing. Anytime we're having a challenging conversation, we always say same team, same team. We're on the same team. Nice, trying to get the same outcome. Sometimes it can get scary, it can get triggered and all that. But that's the point I wanted to make with the. Sometimes the other person's quote unquote mirror ends up being your own.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's really what I meant by the. How can someone be so right and then so wrong? That's, ultimately. What I realized is that I was. I thought it was going to be her mirror and I'm trying to share with her a frustration or something that I think she's missing, and then I figure out the whole time that I was missing something even bigger. And that's where growth is.

Speaker 2:

And whether it's the NLU team or with Kevin or with Emilia, the only way you can collectively climb Mount Everest with a team and not have everyone get frostbite is to have difficult conversations. Listen, I don't think those shoes are going to work. You know there's a storm coming in. We really should take base camp now. I think we keep going. You have to be able to pitch and catch vulnerable truths. Where you're not, you're not destroying the relationship. There's a way to build relationships constructively that are authentic and they're based on truth. I really do believe this. I'll be quick, but you know Thanksgiving was yesterday. We hosted.

Speaker 2:

People don't like to go deep in certain settings. They would much rather just have everything be easy and be nice, and I get why people say that I do, but the problem is is things can't always just be nice. We got to talk about real stuff. We got to talk about really difficult, uncomfortable stuff. We can't avoid uncomfortable conversations and here's why I try to explain this In the analogy of Everest.

Speaker 2:

If you see someone trying to climb Mount Everest without the right boots and you love them, you can't avoid it. You have a responsibility to at least Vulnerably share your perspective and again, that's my belief. But I'll tell you what I mean. Whether it's someone at Thanksgiving saying you know, I'll start my diet tomorrow, or it's hey, I really want to do XYZ and you kind of know that that's not gonna work, you have to kind of find the line of do I care about this person enough to Vulnerably share my perspective in an effort to help them build a bigger, brighter, better future? And and if the answer is yes, then you got to take that risk and hopefully you can do it in a way that isn't a tacky and it is an ego, and that's why the vulnerability piece is the most important.

Speaker 2:

Vulnerability was was One of the best things I've ever learned, because I used to try to help people all the time, but I didn't know how to do it in a vulnerable way. And I would always try to Help people, but I think they just took it as a really negative experience because I don't think that I did it with as much Humility, vulnerability and courage as it would require, even if I was right, even if I was optimal, even if I was more accurate. And so, at the end of the day, if you want a big, bright future, you're gonna have to make good choices through accurate thinking, and I think a lot of people's thinking is very flawed, myself included. It's just less flawed than it used to be and certainly less flawed than a lot of people who haven't contemplated as much and as long.

Speaker 2:

Not everyone has 1500 episodes of contemplating vulnerability and growth and contribution and fulfillment and future and all the stuff. So Kevin and I go through this world and we want to share with you listeners. It's gonna be difficult sometimes. People aren't always gonna like it. Sometimes you're gonna get a mirror that's even bigger back. Sometimes people are gonna take the mirror and throw it back at you because they don't want to see the feedback, and then, hopefully, most of the time, you'll actually build a relationship that's built on meaning and and mutual contribution and growth rather than, you know, surface level.

Speaker 1:

Make everything nice, you nice Well and hopefully to to continue your analogy of climbing a mountain the people that you're having these tough conversations with are the people that you Want to have these tough conversations with. They're the people that you want to be on this journey with. One of the things I Tower and I say often about what we're grateful for is I'm grateful for the fact that I get the opportunity to grow with and I'm grateful that you're the person I'm having these challenging conversations with. I'm grateful for that. So, as much as sometimes it can suck and it can be scary and you know you might be afraid and it's challenging being vulnerable, this is just. It continues to point to one of the biggest things in our lives is the people in it. If you have a bunch of positive people in your life, I'm willing to bet you're probably going in a positive direction. If you have a bunch of negative people in your life, unfortunately, you're probably trending down and that is a. I mean, it's not hardcore, but that's a hard.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever seen an exception to that?

Speaker 1:

I don't think so. Same no I. How do you? You'd have to be the best swimmer ever to swim upstream and be able to take people with you.

Speaker 2:

I know. I've never seen an exception to that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, even if, and I don't think I ever will- Even if there's somebody who's doing it, they're definitely not getting to where they could. That is a fact.

Speaker 2:

That is a fact.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is 100% a fact. Okay, we gotta go, because you have stuff to do and I have stuff to do. Last thing you said fulfillment. What did you fulfill your belly with for Thanksgiving? That was a dessert. I don't want to hear about anything but dessert.

Speaker 2:

Dude, the pecan pie at Wegmans was unreal with vanilla ice cream. You say pecan or pecan Pecan. I said pecan, but I don't know if that's correct.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of different approaches. It was delicious.

Speaker 2:

That's why I don't care how you say it, man, it was bomb. You have any?

Speaker 1:

left. It was really good. What about you?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, Definitely we're going to be leftovers for the next three or four days.

Speaker 1:

That's the benefit of hosting, except you have to clean up and all that Chocolate pie. That's what I had Chocolate pie. I'm not a big turkey. I didn't really eat that much. I don't eat that much. On Thanksgiving I did a two hour turkey grapple Turkey roll in the morning. It was amazing. I got defeated.

Speaker 2:

Everyone is wondering what a turkey roll is Jiu-jitsu? Just assume anything I say. They're like oh, you ate a turkey roll. What's a turkey roll? No, no, no, jiu-jitsu, all right.

Speaker 1:

If you have not yet joined our private Facebook group. I know there's a lot of new listeners, so if you have not joined the private Facebook group yet, please do. It is a great opportunity to meet other like-minded people and it's a group of positive individuals. If you get nothing else out of it, you'll probably get a smile on your face at least once a day and you'll get positive content and positivity. Link is in the show notes. As always, we would absolutely love to have you.

Speaker 2:

One thing I learned at Thanksgiving hosting was that not everyone is having consistent, deep conversations that are vulnerable and constructive towards their goals and dreams. It's not as common as I would love to believe, and if you want more of those you know, don't climb your mountain alone. Group coaching is a team of 10 people that are all climbing their own metaphorical mountains and you don't have to climb alone. You have support. You've got an assistant coach, you've got Kevin and myself. It's a 90-day program. Start 2024 off right. I can promise you we have poured hours and hours, and hours and hours and hours into making this program as good as it possibly can be. It is such a well-polished product at this point and we have learned so much over the last 12 groups.

Speaker 2:

Group 13 starts at the beginning of January 2024. The website isn't done yet. We will let you know when it is. Email me if you want in. I'll give you the promo code, I'll let you know, I'll put you on the list and I'll send you a direct link to the website once the website's done. And the real point here is the holidays are expensive. A lot of people are very generous. I appreciate that. Please save some money so you can do this group with us, group 13, beginning of January 2024. Kickstart the year off right.

Speaker 1:

Start the year strong, and one of the most beneficial things about that time period is we're going to help you set goals. So if you feel like you've been struggling, you have new year's resolutions and they just seem too big or they seem too complicated or they're too complex and they don't get done, we will help you reverse, engineer goals that will actually light you up. I don't know what we're doing for tomorrow's episode, because I'm out here. Jeffen, maybe we'll do something about Thanksgiving lessons. I'm not sure it will be valuable. Alan and I both will be here. Alan will most likely have a polo on and I'll still have the same color lights if you watch us on YouTube, but once we hit December, I'm going Christmas lights.

Speaker 1:

I have, of course, this is who. I am All right, you do. You, man, I appreciate that very much, as always. Yeah, yeah, we appreciate each and every one of you. We are super grateful for each and every one of you. We love you all Happy. Well, it's already past Thanksgiving, but very grateful, very grateful that we get to do this every single day and we have such an amazing community, and that's one of the things I took away from Thanksgiving. As always, we do not have fans, we have family and we will talk to you all tomorrow, keep having deep, vulnerable conversations.

Speaker 2:

Next level nation.

Speaker 1:

From where I just had a moment where I didn't think I hit the record button.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host