Next Level University
Confidence, mindset, relationships, limiting beliefs, family, goals, consistency, self-worth, and success are at the core of hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros' heart-driven, no-nonsense approach to holistic self-improvement. This transformative, 7 day per week podcast is focused on helping dream chasers who have been struggling to achieve their goals and are seeking community, consistency and answers. If you've ever asked yourself "How do I get to the next level in my life", we're here for you!
Our goal at NLU is to help you uncover the habits to build unshakable confidence, cultivate a powerful mindset, nurture meaningful relationships, overcome limiting beliefs, create an amazing family life, set and achieve transformative goals, embrace consistency, recognize your self-worth, and ultimately create the fulfillment and success you desire. Let's level up your health, wealth and love!
Next Level University
#1564 - Sometimes, Going Backwards Isn't Actually Going Backwards
Have you ever hit what felt like a brick wall in your career, only to discover it was a stepping stone in disguise? Swapping the certainty of a pay stub for the promise of a better quality of life, only to face rejection. In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros peel back the curtain on those heart-dropping moments to reveal how they unexpectedly charted my path toward positive growth. They'll share stories of transformations born from the ashes of professional setbacks and the surprising benefits of taking a few steps back to leap forward. Throughout the dialogue, they focus on the power of resilience and the beauty of life’s full pendulum swing. They emphasize that every setback is an opportunity in disguise and that our greatest lessons often come from the most challenging times. This conversation reflects their journey and invites all to transform their pains into power, embracing the growth that can come from life’s inevitable setbacks.
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Show notes:
(1:29) Advice and professional setback
(5:59) Embracing discomfort
(7:11) Reflective moments
(8:49) Pain-pleasure pendulum
(12:06) Career setback as a catalyst for growth
(14:29) Kim thanks Kevin for going above and beyond in helping launch the Peaceful Productivity podcast
(15:18) Fail forward
(17:59) Turn your pains into power
(23:27) Power of resilience
(25:43) Outro
Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode, episode number 1563. One powerful reframe on money today for episode number 1564 sometimes going backwards isn't actually going backwards.
Speaker 1:I was talking to somebody yesterday, alan, and this person has gone through it. They've gone through a lot in 2023 and in 2022. It's been a trying time for them and I said it's really hard to Give advice when you're going through it, because, number one, there isn't really anything right for me to say. Sometimes you ever get messages from people and you just think to yourself. I don't really know what to say. I can, I can give you some positivity and some inspiration, but it just seems like you're going through it and you're probably just gonna have to keep going through it, unfortunately. But what I said to this person was Sometimes you going backwards For what might seem like a year is actually you going forward, but it's only you going forward if you keep going and then you have the perspective in a few years. It's a very challenging thing to deal with and give advice on, but it reminded me of a story that I went through years ago. That is this in a nutshell. At the time it seemed like the worst outcome, but in retrospect it was actually one of the best things that has ever happened to me.
Speaker 1:So, for those who don't know, I worked in an industry called weatherization. Nobody's heard of weatherization, at least most people haven't. All it means is it was our job to make buildings more energy efficient. So we go into schools and we would make them more energy efficient, and it required a ton of travel. I made good money doing it, but I spent weeks and months on the road Living in sketchy hotels, driving six, eight, twelve, sixteen hours to job sites. It was just brutal. So the year I made the most money I had ever made with the company was the year that I was willing to grind my face off because I thought money was gonna create happiness for me, didn't end up doing it. So the next year, the year after I made the most money I never made, there was a job opening within the company, and it was an office job. Yeah, remember this, it was an office job that required a little bit of travel. You might have to drive down to New Jersey for one day and then drive home.
Speaker 2:We were podcasting at this point we were podcasting. I remember you asking me yeah, do you think this is a good idea?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I applied for this job. I and I was gonna go from and this is how desperate I was and this is how miserable I was and this is how unsustainable my life was at the time I was gonna go from making $100,000 to, I believe, $50,000. I was gonna take a $50,000 pay cut because I just wanted the certainty of being home. I just wanted to be home at the end of the night and even if I was traveling one day a week, two days a week, I was okay with that because at least I'd be home more. So I apply for the job within the company and I'm thinking I'm a shoot-in. I have more seniority than anybody else who's applying. This is gonna be fine. I go in for an interview and I feel like the interview goes really well. It's with my project manager at the time and I get a call, whatever it was. I actually stopped smoking weed because I was afraid I was gonna get drug tested and I didn't wanna lose my immunity.
Speaker 2:I remember that. I remember that I was committed to this.
Speaker 1:I wanted this job. I wanted this job very badly. So I get a call and they say, hey, can you come in? We wanna talk to you about the job opportunity. I'm like, hell, yeah, here we go, baby, this is awesome. So I drive an hour and a half in traffic. I go into the office, they sit me down and they're like, yeah, we called you in here today just to let you know that you didn't get the job. And first of all I was like you couldn't. I mean you could just tell me that over the phone. You know what I mean. They actually called you to drive in there, yeah, and it was an hour away and it was an hour, at least an hour and a half with traffic. So this was like a three hour.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute hold on, hold on. I've never heard this part of the story. You drove to get told you didn't get the job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I drove to the office. How inconsiderate is that.
Speaker 2:Super inconsiderate.
Speaker 1:But they said we wanted to be respectful. You could have just sent me a anything.
Speaker 2:Anything would have been more respectful Email text message, even if you just never told me that would be a phone call that would be better than you told me Wait, wait, you drove two and a half hours.
Speaker 1:Three hours probably total.
Speaker 2:Three hours total to get told you didn't get the job.
Speaker 1:It was quite literally like a five minute meeting Dude sometimes.
Speaker 2:I feel like your life needs to be a sick problem.
Speaker 1:That part could.
Speaker 2:I can't help it. It's like I always feel bad because I was in a blabbing at your pain.
Speaker 1:But I thought, for sure I was getting it. I was walking in whistling, of course. Why else would I be here? You know what I mean. You guys wanted me here, so it must be a good thing. So I didn't get the job and I left that day and I remember thinking I'm gonna at some point over the next year or so, I'm gonna quit. This is it. If this was my last ditch effort to stay at this company, I'm not gonna be able to last here much longer and I think this was before my suicidal ideation. It was Because it was earlier in the year and it was one of the things that this was like the last ditch effort. If I can get this job, I'll stay at this company and everything will be fine. I'll be making money. It won't be as good of money, but I'll have so much certainty and I'll be able to podcast. I know I'll be home every night so I can podcast when I get home.
Speaker 1:Awesome, didn't get the job. In retrospect, at the time it was the worst thing ever. I remember it was like the light at the end of the tunnel, even though it was such a drastic lifestyle change. It was the light at the end of the tunnel Didn't get it. In retrospect, if I got that job I might have never done, I might have never left. It put me in so much discomfort, the fact that I didn't get that job. It created so much necessity. It pushed me so far to hell. No, I'm not gonna stay here anymore. Yeah, I went through some stuff, can you?
Speaker 2:explain that concept real quick, Because we used to talk about that all the time, way back in the hyperconscious days. I've been reflecting a lot in the tail end of 2023 to Mario Kart Boost into 2024. And I went back through and I found I actually found three episodes. So the very first episode of Conversations Changed Lives, which was the podcast I had prior to teaming up with Kev YouTube channel. I found that episode.
Speaker 1:YouTube channel.
Speaker 2:Which Kevin was the first guest on YouTube channel, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, youtube channel, which is gonna be a podcast, so whatever YouTube channel. And then I found the very first interview where Kevin interviewed me on the hyperconscious podcast. And then I found the second time you interviewed me and that was up in your apartment in New Hampshire and I reviewed a little bit with Kev but behind the scenes, a little bit of those episodes and it is unbelievable the growth. It's wild. And so if you're out there listening, it's Wonverton 905 says you'll be very strong with some applications.
Speaker 2:Do yourself a favor and go back. Do yourself a favor and go look. Go look at you a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. You owe it to yourself to see the growth, because on the day to day the growth is sometimes invisible, but over the long term it is wild. I mean, the episodes were just nothing compared to what they are now and sometimes it's hard to see that. So a little side tangent. But, kev, back in the day Hyperconcious Podcast we used to talk about you have to get to hell, yes, before you'll ever get to hell. No, you have to get to hell, no, before you'll ever get to hell. Yes, can you explain that concept?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we called it or we coined it, the old pain pleasure pendulum. I don't know if it's a thing, I don't know if it's like a psychological thing, I don't know, but the thought that we had was when you so if you think of a pendulum, or if you think of an old school clock, the thing that you know, it swings back and forth. The further you go to hell, no, the more willing you are to go all in on hell, yes, and you used the Monday at work.
Speaker 1:So let's say, hypothetically, you go into work on Monday and you have the worst day you've ever had. It's just brutal. Your curse on your boss, your curse on the people you're working with, your curse on the customers. Whatever it is, if you don't quit your job Monday, you're going to wake up and you're going to go in Tuesday and Tuesday might be a little bit better. And then you'll go in Wednesday and Wednesday's hump day. You're already halfway there. You go in Thursday, thursday's Friday Eve. So we just got to get through today and tomorrow. You go in Friday. It's Friday, you don't even care, it's Friday. And then Saturday and Sunday come around and you're back to uncomfortable, but not uncomfortable enough to quit, and that's kind of you swinging just in between the pain pleasure pendulum. There's just not a lot of pain but there's not a lot of pleasure. I think that's what would have happened if I got that job.
Speaker 1:It would have sucked, but compared to what I was doing before, it wouldn't have sucked that much.
Speaker 2:It would have put you back in your comfort zone. It would have put you back in the pendulum barely swinging to hell.
Speaker 2:no, and therefore not all the way swinging to hell yes, so you might not have teamed up with me I most likely wouldn't have or we might not have done an episode a week. At one point we decided and we went all in on an episode a week. When was that? Because I know that we did an episode a week for a while, like you were doing an episode a week kind of sporadically. Then you and I started working together and then we did one every week, but then there was a couple that we missed or something. And then there was a moment in time when you were like you and I decided like we're gonna do an episode a week, we're going all in on this, this is it, and we just never missed after that.
Speaker 1:I don't remember when that was. That was after I left.
Speaker 2:I think, because I think we missed, because we were doing, I think it was after 17, because I remember you had someone on for 16 that I didn't agree with. And I remember thinking to myself I know we weren't partners at that point, because if we were, I would have said please don't but I think 19, there was a Christmas tree in the background. This is December of 2017. And you and I were at your kitchen table with the Christmas tree in the background. I think 19 was the first official hyper conscious podcast.
Speaker 2:meets, conversations, change lives podcast yeah, and after that, I think we did a week every week for coming up on our seventh year.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't remember, I genuinely don't remember, because I know we did one a week and then eventually we went to two a week. But when we did two a week, we didn't always do two a week.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There was times where we were doing a guest in a solo and we just we didn't have a guest, so we would just do a solo, or we do two solos and I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I, when we went to two a week, we still did two a week, it just we didn't always have a guest.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I've looked back before and I don't know when we hit the cadence where we never missed. I don't know, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:I think it was after 19,. But again, those, those numbers tend to matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would trust you more than I, but the the ultimate thought in all this is that thing that I remember going home. I lived with that at the time. I remember going home and just and being because he thought I got the job too, of course he did who asks you to drive three hours. And I remember saying I don't remember the exact thing I said, but I'm sure it was like what did he say when you told him they made you drive? He was probably very angry, of course.
Speaker 2:That is so, un. Oh, we wanted to be respectful. It's like listen, this is wildly disrespectful. Shoot me a text message, shoot me an email saying hey, you didn't you've seen Billy Madison. A simple no would have been just fine, exactly.
Speaker 1:I'm sure he was probably also equally as angry as I was, but I remember going home and saying that, like I don't know what to do, this was it In my mind. I was going to get this job. I'm done. I'm not going to stay here. I can't do this. This isn't sustainable for me anymore. In retrospect, best thing that happened.
Speaker 2:So that's, I want to get a book of all the stories. Maybe one be so fun for me, maybe maybe one day, maybe one.
Speaker 1:Remember a quick, quick story when I worked at the gas station one time. I just remember this. There sometimes you had to have people pull up. If you ever parked at a gas pump, you know Sometimes it's hard to judge how far the pumps gonna reach and if it's gonna reach you or not. Yeah, and there was this old guy and he was a dick. He was just not a nice man. He nobody liked him at the gas station. And there was this time where I was having him pull up and I told him to stop and Then I walked away and he kept pulling up and he slammed into the car in front of him and Then he tried to like fight me. This he was a geriatric individual and he wanted to throw hands with the kid. I Walked away and told you to stop. This is on you. This isn't a me issue, this is a you issue. You're the driver.
Speaker 2:Not to mention that would be very bad for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely at the time. I was deep in mixed martial arts training at the time. You would have, I would have had to put him down, but he was an old man. So I was like, look man, I understand you're frustrated and you're angry. But number one, everybody knows you're kind of a, you're kind of a dingo and You're a. You've been driving longer than I've been alive. You need to figure it out. You need to figure it out.
Speaker 2:So that was another gas station, kevin gas station story. Kevin's got a lot of stories where it's just I have trouble not laughing because it's like sitcom worthy. Back to the two, two things. One a lot of times the thing that's super painful ends up being a really good thing. For sure, that that person who breaks up with you. I have one example where I got cheated on in high school and that ended up being a really good thing Because I moved on very quickly from that. That was like enough pain. Again. There's the pain pleasure pendulum again, when the pain is great enough. I remember I told a friend that that you know my girlfriend had cheated on me. He's like, dude, you wanted out of that anyway. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of true. Yeah, but these things that are super painful and this is the last thing that I'll share in this episode Whether you call it discomfort or pain is up to you, but I want you to check in with what your relationship with pain is.
Speaker 2:If you have a negative relationship with pain or Discomfort, you're gonna have a really hard time succeeding. And and this is universal I don't, I don't. I can't think of a single person who is holistically successful like without any pain and discomfort. I don't even think it's real, I don't think it's possible, whether it's getting a better business or a better body or a better relationship. I've had really uncomfortable conversations with Emilia that were really, really, really powerful and in hindsight you can look back and go luckily we had that conversation and we can laugh at it now. We just the other night we talked about a conversation early in our relationship and it's like funny now, but at the time it was so bad. It was like, oh my heart. And so Check in with your relationship with pain, because if you never get to hell, no, you're not gonna, you're not gonna swing the other way.
Speaker 2:And this goes for success and failure too. If you never risk failing, you're not gonna get successful. I mean, we've done many, many, many live in-person events and we've never actually exceeded our goal at filling the room, but we've always gotten a ton of people to events. We've done a bunch of events. It's you know what I mean. It's really important to be willing to fail. It's the same analogy. As you know, you swing at the baseball and you strike out. You know in baseball you strike out what? 70% of the time, even if you're really good, you get something like that.
Speaker 1:You get out 70% of the time.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily strike out, but yeah okay, you get out 70% of the time. Even the Hall of Famers get out. What? 60% of the time?
Speaker 1:70.
Speaker 2:70,. Okay yeah 65, 65.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you get a hit one out of every or, sorry, four out of every 10 times, you're like the best ever Over the course the best ever. Yeah, over the course of your career yeah, that's wild.
Speaker 2:That's a good analogy for life, and if you associate more pain from the six outs, then you do the four hits Pleasure from the four hits, you're in trouble, and so that would be the last thing I'm saying is zero to 10, what is your relationship with pain? What is your relationship with adversity? What is your relationship with discomfort, what is your relationship with failure and these things that you think are huge failures, whether it's me getting broken up with or cheated on, or it's Kevin, you know, not getting that job, driving three hours, to be told, hey, you were probably dressed up too, were you nice, dressed nice?
Speaker 1:Most likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dressed nice, you know all gel, hair gel. Oh no, you didn't get the job?
Speaker 1:Most likely. Yeah, I thought I was going to accept it. Oh man, you must have been like a new position.
Speaker 2:How bad was that drive home.
Speaker 1:I think there was a part of me that was probably happy, just deep, deep down, because I was so pissed off it's like, all right, screw you guys, I'm gonna leave, screw you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do. How long do you go after that until you quit that job? Yeah, I'm gonna do it. Slash got let go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same year. Let's tell that story real quick. All right, so I'm in the gym with Kev, I'm in the gym with Kev and he gets a phone call and there's more to this, though. I know, I know you can preface.
Speaker 1:They basically said listen Preface is before, just so you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, you can interrupt and add this. Okay, during. This preface is before, during, this is during. So I think they said something along the lines of you need to get it together, otherwise you're done and we need you to do XYZ job or something like that. And you and I talked and you were on the phone for a hot minute and I remember we were gonna record a podcast episode. It was coming home from the gym and you were actually out in my yard on the phone for like quite some time and I was like I think it was my mom who came out or something. She's like what's he doing? And I said he's quitting his job. I think he's quitting his job. And I remember at the time I think she was concerned.
Speaker 1:Understandable, like really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, understandable. I mean you gotta eventually right. I remember being pumped. I think I was the only one, one of the only ones, who was like great great job Matt was pumped too, matt was pumped too.
Speaker 2:Okay good, matt and me were like yes, kev, everyone else was like dude, are you sure? You know that's sometimes people aren't gonna support the risks that you take and then later in life, assuming you stick with it, you know they'll celebrate you and they'll say they supported you when in reality you'll look back and go listen you thought I was crazy, but that was an interesting story too of not long after that you essentially quit your job. Slash, got let go.
Speaker 1:So there had been rumblings going on because I was sick of we were six hours away in New Jersey for a job and it snowed and school was closed, so we couldn't go work. And I called my project manager and I said we're getting paid for this, right? And he said no, and I said we're stuck, so let me go home. Then I'm not gonna stay here if I'm not getting paid, I'm just gonna stay in this hotel room because we can't go work. You guys should pay us. This is bullshit. And they were like no, we're not gonna pay you guys.
Speaker 2:I was like all right, that's another thing.
Speaker 1:Like I'm, I am so done with this place. So eventually what happened was in order, the culture was kind of falling apart a little bit. Everybody was angry at leadership and the project manager was like hey, I wanna take you out to lunch. And I was like no, I'm not gonna drive an hour so you can take me out to lunch. No, I'm not interested. He said I'll come down to you. All right, cool free lunch. I'm in. During this lunch I pretty much told him I was like this isn't my forever, I'm not gonna do this forever, and there's a lot of stuff that people are frustrated with. And here it is. That was a breaking point. He didn't like the fact that I was kind of out at that point.
Speaker 1:What happened was Alan and I were supposed to go either record a podcast episode or work out with Catherine Nash and if you don't know Catherine Nash mini but mighty on social media, a friend of ours. She's been on the podcast. We've spoken on stage with her. We had a schedule for work that week. We were supposed to work first shift Seven to three. I'd be home at four. I'd be home at three 30 probably because it was local. Fine, I found out we were supposed to work second shift through the people at the building. Nobody else in my company knew. I called my project manager and said hey, just so you know, they're moving us to second shift. I can't do it. I've already told you I can only work first shift. This week they ended up saying I need you to work second shift and I said I am not working second shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember, I remember we went to a gym.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Where was that? Medford? We used to travel all over the place. Huh, medway, medway, yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember they said my project manager said if you don't do this, this is gonna be a problem. And I said I'm not doing it, I don't care. I already told you, I've told you so many times I can't do this, I'm not doing it. That is the reason I was let go slash, quit, depending on how you wanna look at it, look at it. But all things considered it was relatively amicable. They said they'd give me recommendations for other companies. They said we'll give you referrals. It was like all right, cool it just. But even in retrospect that conversation, I was terrified. I remember the day that I realized I didn't have a job. I was so scared.
Speaker 2:I know this wasn't the point of this episode, but it's important, I think. Imagine you now. Isn't it wild to think back you now? You'd be like, yeah, no problem. Okay, think about how much more capable you are now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but would I have the capability if I was still there?
Speaker 2:No, no, of course not. That's my point. But if you took you now and went back into those conversations, isn't it interesting to see how scarce you were in comparison?
Speaker 1:Well, and you and I are in leadership positions as well, so I understand what it's like to work with people. Now I look back and realize how not good they were at that.
Speaker 2:Can we go into that slightly?
Speaker 1:Well, it's just the leadership. It wasn't great. There was a lot of scarcity, there was a lot of the communication.
Speaker 2:Strong arming, yeah, yeah, the communication just wasn't great.
Speaker 1:You guys make a lot of money. There's a line out the door for people who want your job? No, there is, trust me. I've trained all these people and they last two weeks and then they quit. You're wrong about that, but again, it was a very unique learning experience that I'm very grateful. I had All the junk that came with it too, because I wouldn't be me if I didn't have it, but there were a lot of times where going backwards actually wasn't going backwards. It was actually creating opportunities for the future that I didn't realize. I was gonna have opportunities to take advantage of eventually, and that's the ultimate goal in today's episode. You have a meeting in three minutes, so I wanna get us out of here on time. You have a quick next level nugget.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my next level, nugget, is the pain of the loss will always come before the successes. Later, it's not just the L that you take that feels like an L Not only is sometimes that a W, but it's what you do with it and hopefully it drives you. So when, kev, let's say you got fired or let go or treated poorly, hopefully it drives you to be better. I think that it can drive you and I think it needs to drive you, because your bigger, better, brighter future is on the other side of taking that pain and turning it into power.
Speaker 1:My next level nugget is if you're gonna not give someone the job, just send them a text or an email or a call, Any of those mail, whatever, whatever it is, whatever else you can do, send them a or just ghost.
Speaker 1:You Ghosting me would've been better, yeah, just don't have me come in and get all dressed up and get my hopes up Tomorrow for episode number 1,565, one reason many relationships burn out. Tara and I had a really good conversation. She actually suggested this episode, so we are gonna do that tomorrow for episode number 1,565. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we do it on a fans. We have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Turn your pains into power. Next level nation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, classic Classic.
