Next Level University

#1567 - Should You Stop Taking SO MUCH Ownership?

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Share episode

Have you ever walked the tightrope of communication, wondering when to speak up or step back? In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros peel back the layers of ownership in dialogue, embarking on a nuanced journey from vulnerability to empowerment, shedding light on the delicate balance of extreme ownership and diving into the art of optimal stopping—like pulling that bag of popcorn out just before the kernels start to burn. Uncover the shared responsibilities that define whether our conversations pop with success or fizzle out in disappointment. This conversation is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and assert their place in discussions without overpowering or being subdued. It serves as a reminder that true empowerment comes from recognizing the shared nature of dialogue and embracing the responsibilities that go with it.

Link mentioned:
To learn more about group coaching, https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
Discount Code: NLULISTENER

______________________

Website đź’»  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com   

The best way to track your habits is here! Download the app: Optimal - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/optimal/   

_______________________

Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume

_______________________

We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on LinkedIn, Instagram, or via email.

Instagram đź“·
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Show notes:
(2:22) Ownership in communication
(4:17) Kevin's thesis
(5:39) Optimal stopping
(7:52) Results, roles & responsibilities
(9:21) Surrendering for empowering
(10:31) Victim, villain, hero & guide
(12:25) Kim thanks Kevin for going above and beyond in helping launch the Peaceful Productivity podcast.
(14:31) Mutual accountability
(16:49) Dangers for exploitation
(18:52) Trust your intuition
(22:26) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin:

Next level nation. Welcome back to another episode of next level university, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode, episode number 1566. We're creeping up on 1600 here. What don't you want to change about yourself? That is the episode we did yesterday.

Kevin:

Today, for episode number 1567, it takes two to communicate effectively. The title might be different the one that you read before you click in this episode. I don't know yet, depends on where it goes, but that is the title that I have written down here currently. So one of our clients, I this person is amazing. I'm such a huge fan of this person. They are a clinical psychologist and they are super focused on Having Effective, healthy conversations. That's kind of what their, their brand is built around, and I was creating some content for them from their podcast, and this piece of content was somebody it was an example of.

Kevin:

In order to In order to effectively communicate, when you offend someone, you kind of have to take extreme ownership. So the thesis behind this was you say you're gonna do something for someone and you completely forget to do it. That person reaches out to you and says, hey, I feel like I can't trust you now and I feel like you're not reliable and I'm a little nervous to To give you responsibilities because I'm afraid you're gonna let me down. And they're just venting and giving you the way they're currently feeling. There's a couple different ways you could go about it. You could say well, none of that's true, I just forgot, it won't happen again. Or you weren't affected with your communication or whatever. If the truth of the matter is look, alan, you're right, you messaged me several times about it. You are extremely clear. I had all the good intentions in the world to do it, but I dropped the ball. I can completely understand why you feel the way you feel. I Can completely understand why you feel like I'm not reliable and I can empathize so much with this situation and, if you're open to it, I'd love to communicate the way I'm feeling as well.

Kevin:

The reason I wanted to do this episode is the mature thing. I think the place that we all want to get to is that. Second one of ownership. You're right, I dropped the ball. You know, here we go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Kevin:

The problem is, if you take that level of ownership with someone who doesn't take any ownership, you're in trouble. Yeah, definitely, that is a vulnerable place to be, to say you're right, I dropped the ball and here's a list of ways that I dropped the ball and I want to make sure you feel seen, because I understand what you're feeling. To the degree I can, I'd also like to share the way I'm feeling so we can come to some sort of compromise. But if the person on the other side of that conversation is toxic, you are setting yourself up for them to counter punch you. Definitely for lack of better phrasing in this, and I was thinking when I was seeing this clip it's amazing, that is amazing, an amazing level of communication, but with the wrong person, that would be very, very detrimental. I think.

Kevin:

Mm-hmm, the reason I mentioned that the episode might be titled differently. I think a good title for this episode might be stop taking so much ownership. Because, yeah, if you're with someone who is not capable of having a balanced conversation and again, when I say with someone, I don't necessarily mean in a relationship, but that's probably where this would be happening, maybe an intimate relationship or a close family relationship I thought a conversation around that would be Valuable, because, yeah, I want to take as much ownership as possible. But there are certain places where, if I take that much ownership, the person's gonna end up getting their way and we're not gonna actually get to and this is a the collective you, not me specifically but the person's gonna get their way and we're not gonna get Into an effective communication and we're not really gonna come to terms with the truth and we're not gonna Close the. What's the word I'm looking for? Argument, I guess, drama, for lack of better phrasing, discord, discord I don't know the word I was looking for, but that's my thesis for this episode.

Alan:

So, as our listeners know, I'm often contemplating too much, too little, goalie locks, optimal stopping which is the best way to describe optimal stopping I figured this out recently is you put something in the microwave We've all done it where we put it in way too long, definitely, and it comes out awful and rubbery. And then there's also been you put it in for too short amount of time and so the optimal would be a minute and a half, for example, for the nachos Emilia and I make delicious.

Kevin:

Popcorn, I feel like, is the ultimate test.

Alan:

You leave the popcorn.

Kevin:

You leave it in there for 15 seconds too long. It's burnt. You leave it in 15 seconds too short, just kernels. Yeah popcorn's a good analogy. Yeah, strong word.

Alan:

It's very challenging. So the percent error allowed for popcorn is very small. That's also true for communication, so that's actually a good analogy. So where I wanna go with this is okay for all of you listening or watching this. Whose responsibility, theoretically, is it for this episode to go? Well, kevin's or mine? And again, no one can really answer, but answer in your head. Well, kevin's, the director of this department, which is podcasts. He has podcast growth, you and Next Level University and I have Next Level Audio blog coming soon, but NLU it's more his responsibility than mine. But wait, aren't you the CEO of the company?

Kevin:

And so we have this content.

Alan:

what did you say? It depends on the day. Well, we have this discussion of if this episode doesn't go well, I'm a co-host, so some of the responsibility has to be mine. Obviously, he can't determine whether or not I'm practicing my craft of effective oratory, and that's kind of what we're talking about here. And so I was on with a client who was talking about the holidays and how she hosted it. We were talking about family dynamics, family businesses, all kinds of stuff.

Alan:

My goal is to unlock her potential, help her achieve her dreams and what I've come to understand and this is challenging to articulate but the more that you want big results in your life, the more responsibility you have to take. I have this framework. It's a simple pyramid, simple period. It's a simple pyramid with three layers. The top layer is results. The next layer is role. So if you want a new result, you're gonna have to take on a new role. So in Kevin's case, the result we want is to cross a million lessons in 2024. Okay, the role he's gonna take on is a podcaster, be a better podcaster, be a more consistent, reliable podcaster, effective communication Okay. And then the responsibility is hey, make sure we're doing our stuff, make sure we're on time, make sure we're XYZ. But here's the problem if you do that with the wrong person to Kevin's original point they're gonna use that against you.

Alan:

So this client wants Christmas to go really well with her children and all stuff and she has an ex-partner who I think is toxic. And I said, here's the problem you're taking on level 10 responsibility for Christmas to go well. He can use that against you because he doesn't care, he's got nothing to lose. He has no standards for how he operates. He has no standards for what Christmas is or isn't. And I'm telling you listeners out there watching or listening there are people in your life that are using your standards against you. I have very high standards for how I treat Emilia, how I treat Kevin, how I treat the team, how I treat people, how generous I am, how kind I am, how non-toxic I am, and so, no matter how toxic people are to me, they know I won't fight back. It's so fascinating and now I'm starting to get it. So I said zero to 10, how much is that person taking responsibility for having a great Christmas? She said oh, zero.

Alan:

I said zero to 10, how much are you taking responsibility for having a great Christmas? She said 10. I said be careful. You're taking over ownership. You're taking over responsibility and other people will, if they're toxic, sabotage you. They have leverage against you. So, energetically, what I want you to do is surrender the outcome. Okay, if Christmas goes to hell, that's okay. Now, all of a sudden, she's empowered. She's empowered to not have to make everything perfect. And what happened is Christmas ended up being way better because she didn't have to play scared of making sure every little thing went perfectly well. And so when people say surrender the outcome, now I get it In relationships. That's powerful, in the gym not so much. Right, 10 pounds in 10 weeks. Don't surrender the outcome. You gotta be on point. So what's all this mean? I was on with this client and I was talking about victim, villain hero guide. I'll go quick with this.

Alan:

The victim, the story to themselves, and every movie, every narrative, every book has a victim, villain, hero guide. I usually use Harry Potter to explain it. Harry Potter was a victim in the beginning. Parents died, voldemort was the villain. Harry Potter became the hero when he went to Hogwarts at 11 years old and was fighting against Voldemort the villain. Eventually, harry became the villain when he realized Voldemort was inside of him, when he cursed him and then eventually became the guide. His guide was Dumbledore and then Dumbledore died and he became the guide when he broke the Elder Wand and threw it away. Okay, so for the Harry Potter fans, that's the best I've got for ya. Kev doesn't know what I'm talking about.

Alan:

Victim villain hero guide. The victim's story to themselves is I need saving, please save me. There's nothing I can do about it. Low self-worth, low self-belief. I'm in trouble. Please save me, please help me.

Alan:

The villain's story to themselves is I need to get mine. I need to save myself. I'm all that matters. The hero's story to themselves is I'll save you, I've got this, I've got you, don't worry, I've got you, I'll save you. If you've ever lent money and then lent more money, and then lent more money and then lent more money and never got it back, you end up becoming the victim, even though you were trying to be a hero. And so that's what I call the drama-trauma triangle Victim villain hero, victim villain hero, victim villain hero. And you get caught in this drama triangle the guide. The only way to win an unwinnable game is to opt out and the guide takes the proper amount of ownership. The guide's story to themselves is you don't need saving, only you can save you. I can help, I can guide, I can educate, I can inspire, I can equip. I can give you a little bit of money a little bit.

Alan:

I can give you a book, I can guide, I can mentor you, but I can't save you. Only you can save you. So, listeners out there, we're trying to be guides. We can't save you, but we can help you save yourself.

Alan:

Now, my whole point of all this is ownership. The victim takes no ownership for themselves or others. No ownership, okay, the villain takes ownership only for themselves and honestly puts ownership on other people Like this is your fault, the finger pointers of the world, kev, this is your fault. This podcast sucks because of you and I take no ownership. It's not my fault, not my company. Okay, your fault. Everything's your fault. Villain Hero is everything's my fault. It's entirely on me, kev. My bad, this podcast sucks. It's all my fault. My bad, don't worry about it. I'll show up better. I'll do better, I'll become better. That's where I spent most of my life, by the way. Terrible way to live, Holy crap. The guide says Kev, you're the director. All right, let's co-create this thing. I'll show up on point. Please do the same. And I hold you accountable and you hold me accountable. It's collaborative. That's the right amount of ownership If I take 100% ownership for this podcast episode going well and Kevin shows up wasted right.

Kevin:

I thought about it. Yeah, I thought about it.

Alan:

Yeah, that's not good. And so to Kevin's title. Maybe you're taking too much ownership. You probably are.

Kevin:

I got pulled over. I told the story but I think it's really good. I got pulled over. This is like the beginning of the year, I almost said recently. The year went by really fast.

Kevin:

I Went out to get I was picking up food for Tara and I and I got pulled over and the cop was like any reason, you're, you don't have a, an inspection sticker. I was like two months over, supposed to get inspected in August, maybe three months over, I don't know. I was a minute over and I said no, man, no, no, no, just haven't done it, I've just been busy and I haven't done it. And Then he he's like alright, alright, let me go, let me look at your stuff. He came back and he's like you also know that your registration is expired and I said definitely, no, no, I definitely didn't know that he's like any reason why. And I said honestly, man, I'm just an idiot, I'm just I'm just trying to get through it. Man, I have no idea.

Kevin:

He let me go. He said you promise next time I see you, you're gonna have an inspection sticker in your registration, we get. I said you have my word, my friend, I appreciate it. That, in this case for me, I wanted to take as much ownership as possible, even though that cop very easily could have said well, you knew your car wasn't inspected and you knew it wasn't registered, I'm gonna have to tow it. They very easily could have done that. I think I don't know. I don't know. The law is obviously.

Alan:

I don't know what I like to do, for sure, of course.

Kevin:

I wanted to take as much ownership as possible because I what else am I gonna do? Make an excuse? No, I had no idea. Yes, I did, I knew. I knew I was riding the lightning every time I went out. That's on me. It's my own fault. If I'm doing 80 and I get pulled over, that's my own fault. It is what it is. So, just as an example, it is a risk taking ownership around someone who you don't know. You don't know their reaction. It's definitely a risk because you're giving somebody ammunition to use against you.

Kevin:

Yeah, it's a vulnerable place to be. It's a vulnerable place to be. I like relationships where it's almost a competition To who can take more ownership.

Alan:

Yeah, that's you and I for sure. Yeah, I love those when I know you team does a really good job, 100% and really nice now in the wrong environment.

Kevin:

That would be extremely detrimental because people would use it against you. I don't. I don't ever want to use somebody else's ownership against them, because I know how hard it is to take ownership. One of the reasons I'm so grateful for my relationship with Taren is she doesn't let me overtake If I say you know what, if we've we've had conversations like that where she might be feeling a certain way and I'll say I completely understand, I dropped the ball, I need to do better. Here are the ways I plan on doing better. Let me share, if you're open to to my Side of this. But there are times where she'll say, well, no, I need to do better to not, yeah, you're the worst fix all the problems that we've ever experienced as a couple. If that was the case, it would be. It would be a very challenging place to grow.

Alan:

So I've been with someone like that. It's not good. I'm sure people who you point at you and then they're still pointing at you.

Kevin:

You know you're right. You do suck. You are absolutely terrible. Yeah, you are the worst. You should get your shit together. You are just real quick.

Alan:

I always say this to certain clients that are unbelievable human beings and they get mistreated and I say isn't it weird how someone keeps telling you how awful you are, but yet they're still trying to be with you? That's fair. Yeah, there's your indicator for our listeners out there. If you are the wonderful heart-driven human that I think you are and and someone is making you feel like shit about yourself Constantly just check in how come they still want to be with you so badly? Right, If I'm so awful, how come you're still fighting to be in my corner?

Kevin:

you know the problem. They may maybe be the problem.

Alan:

And if you point at you and they're still pointing all their fingers at you, trust me You're over taking ownership for sure.

Kevin:

So this is a challenge. This is a challenging episode for the mirror that it might provide. But when I saw that clip, I Switched the order of episodes. I this came to me today and I switched the order. I was thinking this would be a really good conversation because I think we all aspire to take as much ownership as possible, but ownership around the wrong people can be detrimental. So that is my, that is my next level, nugget Make sure you Not make sure. I think we all aspire or I think it would be positive to aspire to take more ownership. I think it's wonderful and I think the right people will appreciate it. The wrong people will take advantage of. That is my next level, like yeah, that's facts.

Alan:

I would second that the wrong people will take advantage of that. They will use it against you. Just, you know intuitively. My next level nugget is you know intuitively if this person is taking advantage of you or not. And you have to trust your intuition. Just trust it. You're not crazy. This person's making you feel crazy. You're not crazy. Your intuition knows you are being taken advantage of, most likely, and it takes courage to do that. I will say this I was such a coward I did not realize I was very courageous in my own life. I was very cowardly with people and I've come up on that a lot and I've been like you know what? Honestly, this one person came to me and she's like well, you didn't tell me until bubba, bubba and I screenshot it I said I told you on September 27th.

Kevin:

I.

Alan:

Texted it to you on September 27th. Don't you drop the ball on everything. Don't put this on me. And and I didn't say it like that that was probably a little more intense.

Alan:

I said it stern but kind, kind but stern, just People who take very little ownership. They don't believe in themselves and they need to make everyone else feel bad when I don't know. There's a lot of people I know who are, who are riding the coattails of other people and then making them feel like they're the problem. Just be very careful and trust your intuition.

Kevin:

That's all I'll say a couple episodes this week on relationships. I tried to also touch on wealth, if you feel like you could use a deeper dive in relationships, in wealth, in Confidence, belief, self-worth all of that stuff we dive very deep into with group coaching. So we are T minus two days away from Group 13 starting, starting on January 2nd, 6 pm, eastern standard time. We would absolutely love to have you. These are the conversations we have behind the scenes, except it's more from a coach perspective. Alan leads those, I am the assistant coach and then Amy is also an assistant coach with us. It's amazing. I Can't speak highly enough about it. We've learned so much over the last 12 groups. So if you're looking to dive deeper into this stuff, please join us. I promise you will fit in, I promise you will belong, and it's a really good way to face the mirrors that maybe you've been getting over the last week. I know these episodes have been heavy a lot of mirrors. We can help you overcome them behind the scenes.

Alan:

Okay, real quick yes, sir. How how much better do you think this program has become over the last 12?

Kevin:

groups. Honestly, I do think the beginning was was valuable because you and I put a lot of time, energy, effort. We put our hearts into it, but we didn't know what we didn't know. We started People tracking like 12 habits out of the beginning. That was too much so.

Alan:

I would say it's 12 rounds.

Kevin:

I Would say it's like 50 times as valuable as it was. Yeah, now it's. It's very catered and we have we have enough data and we know what lands and what doesn't. The stories and the support you get from Amy, amy's in the group every day, just it's wonderful. I cannot If I joined something like this I would be overjoyed genuinely, especially, for the price point ends up being like $24 a call for 12 calls. It is a bargain. It is a bargain. So, again, our our thing. At next level, you is. No matter what your self-improvement set point is or your financial set point. There is somewhere for you. This is a really good spot for you if you've never tried coaching and you want to dip your toe in and see what it's like.

Alan:

Nice, well said. I don't have anything to add other than it's. It's amazing. Invest in yourself, take the leap of faith, start small and you never know your future self will thank you. That's what I would end with. Your future self will thank you. And the promo code is NLU listener. All one word. The link will be in the show notes tomorrow for episode number 1568.

Kevin:

I've moved this episode around because these other ones just felt they felt right. The only way around it is through it. We've been talking about this a lot over the last month or so, where, if you want to get more confident, the only way really to do it is to do the things that you're not confident in it. If you want to build more self-worth, it's usually doing the things that you don't feel like you're worthy enough to do. It's this weird thing, the way success and growth and the universe is set up. So I thought we could do an all-encompassing episode about that, because, now more than ever, I Think that's really the only way. So we'll talk about that tomorrow. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan:

Keep after it. Next up a nation.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host