#1655 - The 4 Relationship Killers… And What To Do About Them

Relationships are complex, multi-faceted, and often challenging to navigate. Some partnerships stand the test of time, while others crumble under the weight of unaddressed issues. What makes the difference? In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros delve into the secrets of enduring relationships, drawing from the wisdom of Dr. John Gottman and his identification of the Four Horsemen. These behaviors are red flags and predictors of a relationship's potential demise. The discussion explores how these toxic behaviors, if left unchecked, can foster an environment of disrespect and superiority, slowly eroding the bond between partners. Tune in to learn how avoiding these pitfalls can strengthen your bond.

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Show notes:
(1:52) Kevin's predicting power
(4:47) Undertone of disrespect
(6:42)  The four relationship killers
(14:58) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we're giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up e

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode, episode number 1,654, stop Running From Uncertainty. Today for episode number 1,655, the Four Relationship Killers 655, the four relationship killers. You and I have had many dialogues on this podcast, alan, where for some reason, I've always been pretty good at predicting whether or not a relationship will succeed. Oh yeah, and upon looking at these four relationship killers, I believe they are called the four horsemen. What are they called by Dr John Gottman? The four horsemen, correct, the four horsemen, let me make sure here, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse Heavy, definitely it's heavy. Upon looking at these, I believe one of the reasons I've been pretty accurate. Unfortunately, of all potential skills to have, this one's not necessarily the best one. It's almost like, instead of preventing a car accident, you just know when it's going to happen.

Speaker 2 1:07

Not quite a superman, but if you know when it's going to happen, you can learn how to prevent it.

Speaker 1 1:12

It's fair.

Speaker 2 1:13

It's fair, which is what we're going to talk about.

Speaker 1 1:15

Yeah, it's not necessarily my line of work. You know this is more in ago. Two years ago on the podcast I said that there was someone that Taryn and I had come in contact with but we were spending time with them and when we were spending time with them one of them slipped and fell and they landed in the water and they had a very expensive camera and their partner criticized them and kind of got mad at them for falling and I told Taryn I said that's not gonna last.

Speaker 2 2:00

There's no way that. Yeah, that's so.

Speaker 1 2:03

The relationship now ceases to exist as of this date. So that ended up kind of coming true, unfortunately, and the reason behind it is one of these four relationship killers was very, very obvious and very, very out there. So I'll let you go through them, because you and emilia just did a a presentation on this and you've taught this more than I have. But shout out to my wonderful wife, who introduced Alan and I to Dr John Gottman's work when her and I first started dating many moons ago and this framework started with him.

Speaker 2 2:40

Yeah, we were at a Friendsgiving or some sort of get-together and Emilia and I were brand new and Taryn texted me Kevin's wife. Taryn texted me this whole pretty long text about how she thinks I would love John Gottman's work and how there's a bid system and all kinds of stuff. So shout out to Taryn for introducing me to this. Emilia's studied this a ton as well. We've used this on the Conscious Couples couples podcast and we just did an event on it. In the event, we actually found out, kev, that stonewalling was the most common within our community. That was, we went to the chat and we did a search function to figure out how many times each one came up. Stonewalling was the most popular.

Speaker 1 3:19

We'll go through each.

Speaker 2 3:20

But first I want to provide this. So John John Gottman's work. They did a research study where they recorded intimate partners interacting for 30 seconds and within those clips similar to Kevin kind of talking about how he can predict with high accuracy whether or not a couple will be together or not. Whether or not a couple will be together or not John Gottman did an actual research study of that where he looked at the 30 seconds and he looked for these four horsemen, these four relationship killers is what we're calling them at the Wii, and he found that the percentage of those relationship killers that were in the 30 seconds determined the probability that the couple would not be together within 10 years. They followed up with those together within 10 years. They followed up with those same couples 10 years later and john gottman all the numbers came back, the research study came back with he could predict with 94 accuracy, meaning 94 of the predictions were accurate after looking at 30 seconds of two intimate partners coming together.

Speaker 2 4:24

That's why why it's so famous, because it's wild to think about. And underneath it all it's this undertone of disrespect, it's this undertone of I am better than you type of thing, and we've all seen it If you ever watch the movie Titanic? I like to reference it a lot. I know our listeners know that the Cal, the villain in the movie, is wicked condescending. He's very I'm better than everyone else. You know I own a steel mill and he is constantly treating Rose as property. So I think underneath, underneath all of these relationship killers this is my own insight, so don't quote me on this but my own insight is I think underneath it is just this undertone of disrespect and this undertone of superiority that tends to destroy the relationship over time. And the way that superiority manifests, I think, is through these four. So number one is criticism, and I'm going to read what we defined them. Emilia defined them. In the event, criticism is an attack on a partner's character, beliefs, personality, appearance or actions. So Kevin and I are really playful on this podcast and we throw playful jabs at each other jokingly, but you can always feel it in the energy if it really is actually a toxic poke.

Speaker 2 5:39

Emilia and I call them stingers In our relationship. If one of us throws a stinger, it's like ooh, and I say the word stinger, or she does and it's like yeah, I'm sorry, I'm overwhelmed, and then we slip into vulnerability. Okay, so number one is criticism. Number two one moment, please. Stonewalling. This is the one that was most common with the conscious couples community. Stonewalling is when a partner is disengaging from the conversation.

Speaker 2 6:05

This is one of those like and the best story that I have for this is when emilia and I first got together, I was super vulnerable and fearful because I was falling head over heels in love and she sent an energy shift and it was late at night and she's like are you okay? Is everything good? And I was like, oh, I'm fine, I'm just tired. That was a stone wall of don't ask, I'm opportunity to connect and be vulnerable. And instead it's like no, I'm good.

Speaker 2 6:31

And so I turned over and then I said, alan, you idiot, you know, don't do this, just tell her the truth. You're not tired, you're staring at the wall, right, right, you're fearful as hell. And so you got to be vulnerable, you got to be courageous. So I turned over and I said, truth be told, I'm falling head over heels in love with you. I'm fearful to get hurt again and I'm afraid that you don't feel the same way. Uh, it's funny now, but at the time it was terrible. Uh, but she did, she also went vulnerable and we ended up having this wonderful evening together.

Speaker 1 7:02

So that was an example. Requited love, requited love, say again Requited love, like unrequited love, but requited. I don't know what that means. Unrequited love is like Romeo, not Romeo and Juliet. Yeah, maybe Romeo and Juliet. Unrequited love is when you love someone and they don't love you back.

Speaker 2 7:22

I think, oh, requited love I must assume, since there's no un is when you love someone, they love you back.

Speaker 1 7:29

Yeah, okay, that's the better kind, I hope so that's way better yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 7:31

So that's stonewalling. When someone completely disincate, like literally get out, like that kind of thing, okay, that's stonewalling. And that one is common and, I think, another reason for stonewalling too. I'll be brief about this. But you don't want to hurt your partner when you're frustrated, so sometimes it's get out because I'm going to hurt you. I'm triggered. Well, it's fear. Yeah, it's fear. Either way, it's fear Defensiveness. Defensiveness is denying responsibility when communicating to or about the other. Defensiveness is my common one in our relationship. I get really defensive. She'll say something and I'll get triggered and it'll. It'll poke something from my past and I'll get like defensive. Like she'll ask a question, simple question hey, how did you know that? And I think she needs me to justify why I'm accurate in my thinking and why this is the best next move. That is not at all. She actually wants to learn, which I've been growing through with Emilia for for almost five years now. We all have a big one. Now I want all the listeners to really think, and we did this at the event to raise your hand for your biggest one. And so defensiveness was mine, stone stonewalling was her, hers. She doesn't want to hurt me when she's frustrated, so she'll take time and she'll create distance, which will then make me more anxious. So we work through that. And conflict resolution is we're going to get to the antidotes as well. By the way, the antidotes is what we did in the event of. These are the solutions when you recognize that these are happening. Okay, last one, this is the big one. This is what we called the nail in the coffin. If you do this one and you do it wrong, and you do it a lot, your relationship is going to die most likely. The research shows that as well, by the way. Okay, contempt is a more severe escalation of criticism. So picture hey, the food was kind of shitty tonight. That's like criticism and it's pretty hardcore versus you're a terrible cook. See, one of them is like attacking the person at another level with a raised voice and it's just not. It's just nail in the coffin type of thing. The target of contempt is made to feel despised and worthless. The goal is to make your partner feel less than. And again, titanic reference. I know it's a popular movie, so that's why I reference it. Cal does that a lot with Rose. So we used the movie the Breakup as an example. So if you've never seen the Breakup. It was in 2006 with Vince Vaughn and Jennifer. It's a good one, jennifer Aniston. It is funny. Now it's a little less funny Now that I know what's going on?

Speaker 2 10:11

You know what I wish, kev? I wish everyone at that table had their own little bag of lemons, their own little private bag of lemons. You know, my baby wants, my baby gets, and uh, baby wanted 12, 12 lemons. He's like oh, why would you need 12 lemons, you know so anyways, okay, the antidotes, here we go. Number one criticism. The antidote is gentle vulnerability. So instead of criticizing uh, I'll use the lemons. Instead of criticizing her, I'll use the lemons. Instead of criticizing her cooking, which is what he did in the film, he could have said, honestly, I was overwhelmed today. I should have gotten you 12 lemons. I'm scared that our parents are going to meet tonight and the truth is I'm playing video games, drinking a beer, because I'm anxious. I just need a minute. I'm sorry. How can I help? You just got to slip into that vulnerability.

Speaker 2 11:05

Vulnerability In order to solve, and most relationship issues, by the way, are a lack of courage, humility and vulnerability. I'll just say that Boom, that's the thing that keeps coming up every single episode, every single event. Antidote number two. So number two was hold on stonewalling. The antidote to stonewalling is self-soothing. How do you self-regulate your emotions? So when you're about to explode or the volcano is about to erupt, instead of stonewalling to protect yourself and your partner, what if you took a box breath, said, hey, I'll be right back, I just need a minute, I need to go outside, I need to take a shower, whatever. Like, go take a minute, but communicate that it's not a stonewall. We're going to come back to this. I'm not forgetting. Like, don't talk. We're never going to not talk about this. Stonewalling is cut it off. We're not talking about this. We're not talking about this. This is over. We're done with this conversation. And then you never bring it up again.

Speaker 2 11:56

Whereas self-soothing is I'm going to take a walk and I'll be back and I love you and we're going to come back to this. Is that okay? And then your partner says, okay, cool. And then they take a minute and then you come back from an emotionally centered place. Okay, antidote number three. Number three was defensiveness. That was my big one. The antidote, fortunately, is take responsibility. Ah yeah, no, that's my bad. That's my bad.

Speaker 1 12:28

That's on me.

Speaker 2 12:30

Truth be told, I feel kind of like shit about myself. Lately. I've been letting myself down. I said I would do the dishes. I said I got a live event coming up. I'm sorry, I know I've been a little. I've been not meeting your expectations. Your needs have been neglected, whatever. Take ownership, not over ownership. You can't take over ownership because if you do that, that's a dangerous game. But the defensiveness is usually the lack of response, uh, responsibility. So, for example, again in the breakup, he's like I really wish everyone had their own little private bag of lemons. Instead of making fun of it and being defensive, he could have taken ownership of. Yeah, I, I should have done the one thing you asked. That's on me, my bad, kevin and I, we do this all the time. Where it's like yeah, yeah, no, that's on me, yeah, it's that's, I've found that. That's on me, my bad, kevin and I.

Speaker 1 13:16

We do this all the time where it's like yeah, yeah, no, that's on me, yeah, it's that's. I've found that that's just the best way to do it.

Speaker 1 13:20

Hey, kevin did you mail the no, no, no no no, no, that was our, that was our tax, our tax debacle of 2019 or 2020, whatever it was brutal it. I think it's one of those things where you're so afraid that somebody knows you did something wrong that you don't want to admit it because it makes you look bad, when, in reality, if you just admit the mistake you made people, that's what they want anyway. Of course, they just want you to say, hey, yeah, I know you're right, I made a mistake and I apologize.

Speaker 1 13:50

I got feedback from clients today. We just helped, or we just started working with a, a podcast last week or two weeks ago and, uh, it just wasn't super smooth in the beginning. And I stepped in and I said it's on us, I take full responsibility, we'll. We'll make it better. And that's what they said to me today. They said we really appreciate how you own the fact that things weren't super smooth. Everything's awesome now. Thank you so much. Nice. And I said it's my goal to. If I blame it on you and run away, I'm not going to learn from it and we're all going to leave mad at each other and it's not going to be constructive.

Speaker 2 14:24

And then you're going to lose the client.

Speaker 1 14:26

Yeah, I know things could have been better. Who am I kidding? Can you give an example of owner over ownership though? Because we've gone, oh yeah, yeah too, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't want to use from a client standpoint, whatever any any over ownership oh man, I don't know.

Speaker 1 14:47

I don't know if I'm really a good one to give an example with this, because I think I do take over ownership, especially when it comes to the business at times, because sometimes that's if you want to grow a business, sometimes that's the way to do it. Definitely, you know, we're not at the stage where I can say, well, you know what? Okay, well, this is, this is, this is a good one. I recently, for lack of better phrasing, fired a client because I was taking over ownership for the fact that they weren't happy with the way things were working. But they are just not easy to work with. They are very challenging to work with. They're very sweet, it's a very sweet human but they're not good at communicating their expectations and they expect us to be on time when they're not.

Speaker 1 15:32

It's this whole thing, and I was quite literally losing sleep over it and I went to them and said look, I am putting myself through the ringer to make this happen, and the team is putting themselves through the ringer and it's not fair to them. I don't think this is going to work. I think you'd probably be better suited with someone else. Nice, so that started from a place of me taking just over ownership and burning myself out and and always losing. No matter what I did, it was always well. Thanks so much for trying, but it didn't happen. Or this time was better, but it's never as good as it needs to be. It's like that's just not a winning game for me.

Speaker 2 16:05

100 so well examples, well said, thank you. Last one contempt. That's the nail in the coffin. The contempt is a is a more intense form of criticism. Contempt, remember, is uh, the cooking was a little off tonight versus you're a terrible, effing cook. One of them is just escalated. You know, now in the coffin, the antidote is consistently cultivating appreciation in advance. It needs to be over time, it needs to be consistent over time in the movie, the breakup, and if you've seen the film you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. For those of you who haven't, since it's wasn't big and came out in 2006. So for those of you who haven't seen it, totally understandable if you do watch it, I do want you to say, I do want to say watching it from this frame was fascinating, super fascinating, because they destroyed their relationship pretty much in the very first 20 minutes and then the whole rest of the movie is them just fumbling through how to get back, how to get it back and by the time they actually have courage.

Speaker 2 17:05

Vulnerability and effective communication is basically at the end, when they already kind of burnt it down. And then she says you know, I got nothing left. We already. We already did this for too long. I'm too hurt, and I think that's a good lesson for everybody, and I think many of us have been there.

Speaker 1 17:21

I certainly have.

Speaker 2 17:23

Consistently cultivate appreciation. So this is the gratitude game. This is okay. Maybe my partner frustrates me X, y, z but what are the upsides that come with those downsides? Let me take me out of the equation for a second. What if they weren't my partner? What do I value about them? What do I appreciate about them? Have I forgotten how awesome it is to be with this person? Have I forgotten how terrible it was to be with my ex? This appreciation piece has to be behind the scenes every single day, because otherwise you're inevitably gonna let the.

Speaker 2 18:05

It's easier to let the negative things fester and and be an issue when you have responsibilities and you have pets and you have household and maybe you have kids. It's so easy and I tell ke Kevin this all the time in business. I don't want all the negative things to be what's focused on, but the negative things are what need to improve, so it's hard not to focus on those. The great things about Next Level Live don't need to change, so it's harder to like celebrate those first when these, these, these, you know, these other things need to improve. And if you're a self-improvement-oriented person, you might be guilty of focusing too much on what needs to improve and not enough on what's great about your partner or about your relationship, and so the antidote is consistently cultivating appreciation. The gratitude game every night is a game changer.

Speaker 2 18:53

Emilia and I did it for three and a half years. We took six months off and I don't know if it was three to six months and I said, emilia, we need this back. We need this back. I can tell it's not the same we were. We got to be careful here. Like I don't feel as grateful, I don't want to bicker, I don't want us to be mad at each other all the time and that kind of thing, and I don't want to ever get to that place. I want to stop that train long before it ever gets there, because I think a lot of people wake up five, 10, 15 years later and go do we even like each other anymore? 100%? What happened here? Right? So I never want that to happen. I will not screw this up and I think it's going to take the gratitude game. I'll do the gratitude game for the rest of my relationship, for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 19:37

Definitely it's a habit. I'm willing to bet that one of the reasons. Because if we were to think, okay, why do many of us struggle to get our health goals? Why do many of us struggle to get our wealth goals? Why do many of us struggle to get our relationship goals? We just don't have the habits down yet, that's all. And a habit is something that you do for a long period of time, it's not a seasonal thing. So if you are committed to growing in your relationship, it's got to be something you do for a long period of time. A couple things I'll add just quickly. You and I have said this many times behind the scenes to one another. I don't know if you use it in your relationship. I have definitely in the past, lead with praise. If you do feel the need to criticize or to point out something that could be improved, point out something that was really good first, definitely.

Speaker 2 20:27

I have used that?

Speaker 1 20:29

Yeah, it's awesome. I really appreciated dinner tonight. It was so thoughtful that you stopped and got whatever. And sometimes when we have dinners late, I struggle because I wake up the next day and there's a bunch of dishes and it just feels really overwhelming to me. Is that something? Maybe we could work on Something like that? Lead with praise Dinner was awesome. It was amazing. This has nothing to do with the quality of the dinner.

Speaker 2 20:52

If it's you or me, it's usually. The dinner was awesome. Thank you so much for being so thoughtful. I'm really grateful, but I'm going to need the portions to double. I'm going to need you to double up on portions.

Speaker 1 21:01

For me it's usually. Do you mind if I wait to do the dishes until the morning?

Speaker 2 21:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's late and I want to go to bed.

Speaker 1 21:09

That, and then we did an episode on this a while ago and this was from one of our clients, yvette. Yvette's an amazing doctor of psychology. She's all sorts of different things.

Speaker 2 21:21

Ah, Yvette's the one I'm going to be on a call with. Yeah, you're talking to me. That's awesome, nice, I didn't know it was the same person.

Speaker 1 21:27

Yeah, you're going to love her. I can't wait for you guys to meet. But I noticed when I was talking to her that she never says but and we did an episode on one word. That can really Jeff any relationship. It's when you're saying something and you say, but it kind of negates everything that you just said.

Speaker 2 21:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:47

So even in the leading with praise, dinner was two versions. Dinner was really great tonight, but or dinner was really great tonight. And it's two different, it's two different stories. So those are a couple micro things I would add to today's episode very last thing duality with relationships.

Speaker 2 22:04

We've talked about duality a lot to kevin's point with the and the power of the end, the genius of the end. It was called the genius of the end in jim collins business books, the genius of the and radical humility and extreme confidence not or not. But so the duality piece. Isn't it possible to be grateful for the meal and the thoughtfulness of the meal and be a little disappointed with the portions? Yeah, definitely, exactly, and I think that one. Unfortunately, we only express one and not the other.

Speaker 2 22:40

And if you only express one and you suppress the negative. Now you are creating, maybe, bugs in the garden that are going to grow bigger because it's going to keep happening. Yeah, but if you only express the criticism or the no, not the criticism, the improvement, and never the appreciation, the other person is going to be like are you kidding me, you ungrateful bastard? So it's the end. The end is the way I'm telling you, in leadership, in relationships, in relationship with self. Alan, good job going to the gym and next time, come on, man, show up, will you Right? So work a little harder, finish that set, you know, get a little stronger, whatever it is. So it's an and and I think that the power of the end, the genius of the end, is a game changer.

Speaker 1 23:30

I think we are really good at communicating what we value, even if it's not in a positive way that If you really care about portion size, maybe you don't care about the quality of the meal as much, so you're naturally going to point out the thing that you value the most, of course.

Speaker 2 23:49

And if you don't, they won't necessarily read your mind about what you value, right.

Speaker 1 23:53

So you have to bring it up.

Speaker 2 23:55

You just have to do it in a kind way. That's not criticism or content relationships are hard, man.

Speaker 1 24:02

Oh yeah, everything's hard, everything's facts. Life is hard, life is challenging, but with the proper habits and I'll also put this out there with the proper partner. That's also important because if what we have found and I'm sure relationship talks and the we and Conscious Couples podcast is probably similar, definitely, usually the people listening are not the issues in the relationship.

Speaker 2 24:26

That's just the way it is, because they're focused on trying to improve. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 24:30

Shout out to you for most likely being an amazing human, so you've got to have the right partner. It's very hard to succeed in a relationship, never mind if you don't have the right person in your corner.

Speaker 2 24:39

The person who's going back to the drawing board to improve is rarely the real problem. I would concur with that.

Speaker 1 24:46

I would concur with that. All right, next Level Nation. If you have not yet joined our private Facebook group, we will have the link in the show notes. Per usual, it's a great opportunity to get around positive people. And usual it's a great opportunity to get around positive people, and I know that everybody is looking to level up their community, and I don't mean that from an intrinsic place, I mean maybe from it's a positivity place. Maybe you want to be authentic, maybe people are crapping on your dreams. That will not happen in next level nation, so the link will be in the show notes. We would absolutely love to have you join.

Speaker 2 25:16

Group 14 closes on on April 9th. It's a Tuesday. Book your spot now. If you use promo code, nlulistener spelled just like it sounds all capital or all lowercase. Check out the website. Six bi-weekly coaching sessions with Kevin, myself and Amy as the chat master, and then there's bi-weekly connection calls to make sure that you are on point every step of the way, fully supported team of 10 like-minded people. At this stage, you've probably heard, if you've been a long-term listener, that we've already done 13 groups at this point. We've improved and iterated and improved and iterated 13 times with this.

Speaker 2 25:54

Reach out to me if you want the email addresses that I've gotten permission in advance to give you to ask other people's experience. You can reach out to these people. Say hey, what was your experience in group coaching? If you want to learn more, reach out to me. Reach out to Kev, dm us, instagram, facebook, linkedin now we're using LinkedIn again and email Kevin or myself Kevin at nextleveluniversecom, alan at nextleveluniversecom, alan at nextleveluniversecom. Just say hey, I think I want in on group 14. I have a couple questions, or whatever.

Speaker 1 26:21

Tomorrow for episode number 1,656,. We've been getting so much good feedback on this, which makes me happy because I told Alan. I said I have an intuitive ping. I want to try something new. So we're going to do Freestyle Friday.

Speaker 1 26:34

Again, don't know what we're going to talk about. We won't know what we're going to talk about. We won't know what we're going to talk about until we talk about it, and then we'll change the title of the episode. So the episode will be a little bit different. But shout out to everybody listening and all the wonderful feedback we've gotten. It's hard. It's taking you behind the curtains for a second. It's hard to figure out what to do when you're so used to doing something a certain way. In the beginning we had a certain way. We would do a different style episode every time. This is going to be a five-minute clinic and this is going to be a small talk. So this is scratching the surface. This is a guest interview, but as we've evolved and as we've changed, we've tried different stuff. So we want to try something new and I appreciate all the positive feedback. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, we are grateful for each and every one of you and at NLU. We do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2 27:23

Stay connected in your intimate relationship Next to the nation.