#1696 - Fear Of Success Vs Fear Of Failure

In today’s episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros discuss how sometimes people are scared of doing well. This fear can cause people to mess up their success without realizing it. They may be worried about having more work, feeling alone, or the stress of staying successful. Kevin and Alan discuss understanding and overcoming this fear of success and failure. They share their stories and tips to help listeners through this tricky feeling.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Book a FREE Relationship Talk Coaching with Alan:
https://calendly.com/alanlazaros/30-minute-relationships-talk-coaching

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level 5 To Thrive (free course) - ​​https://bit.ly/3xffver
Next Level U Book Club - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-book-club/
Next Level Monthly Meet-up:  https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/monthly-meetups/

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:17) Steps how to get over the fear of success
(5:59) Paradox of self-belief
(11:03) At NLU, we want you to win, so we’re providing tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/monthly-meetups/
(13:07) Societal perceptions
(14:35) Face those fears
(16:39) New way to start thinking about fear
(22:34) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin 0:00

Next Level Nation . Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University , where we help you level up your life , your love , your health and your wealth . We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode . Episode number 1,695 , two reasons why your financial situation isn't changing any situation really , but definitely financial . Today , for episode number 1,696 , fear of success versus fear of failure .

Kevin 0:29

I was having a discussion with someone on their podcast recently , alan , and it was a business podcast , and they said a lot of people talk about the fear of failure . I want to talk about the fear of success with you today . Nice , because that's something that I think I had in my profile . Shout out to Laura for booking me on the show and doing all the questions and answers all that happy jazz . She is crushing it .

Kevin 0:52

So we start the interview and there's a little background what do you do ? What was your journey like ? All that happy jazz ? And then the host said what are the three steps for someone to get over the fear of success ? And if you could give examples , that would be great .

Kevin 1:11

And I was thinking mostly of you , because when you and I started working together , I was desperately afraid of fear of failure and then eventually , over time , we uncovered that you had a fear of success , and I said one . It's identifying where it came from . Why do you have a fear of success ? Where did it come from ? Was it people bullying you in the past ? Every time you grew , you evolved , you made progress , people tried to pull you down or you villainized for your growth .

Kevin 1:37

Did you do some sketchy stuff that you don't want people to find out eventually ? Where does it come from ? Second thing is really sit with the people around you and whether or not they're making it better or worse , because if it was the people who were bullying you and all that and they're still in your life , it's not going to get any better . And then the third thing was you need to find a new community where being awesome and being successful is a win and we went through that whole discussion is a win , and we went through that whole discussion . And I don't know , maybe you probably have a better answer than I . What percentage of people do you think are afraid of success versus failure ?

Alan 2:16

Very

Steps how to get over the fear of success

Alan 2:17

low . I'd say probably 3% , and I'm not just taking that number out of nowhere and I'm not just taking that number out of nowhere . I don't know if this is still a statistic , so don't quote me on this . So I'm going to be very , very humble in my delivery of this statistic . Somewhere along the lines , I think , I researched this way back in the 2012 days when I first started my first company . It was called Campus Libre . Kevin . I was at a Halloween party . He said I don't know what Campus Libre is , but I like it , but I like it . You were a I was a genie .

Kevin 2:48

Yeah , for Halloween . You were Nick Carter .

Alan 2:51

I was Nick Carter . I think Very drunk .

Kevin 2:56

Did you drink that night ?

Alan 2:57

Oh yeah .

Kevin 2:58

I think that was the only time I've ever drank with you . I didn't realize that until this moment .

Alan 3:11

Yeah , that was a great night . I had a great time . Yeah , same same . This is way back in 2012 that's 12 years ago .

Kevin 3:14

That's why you were jack in that . That's why I appreciate that .

Alan 3:15

That's why I wore it again going .

Kevin 3:16

Going back to the significance episode we were talking about , uh , the cleavage . Trust me , I am , as I am , more guilty of that than sleeveless teacup or no , not teacup genie , genie you were a genie . I got the the costume because I didn't have to wear a shirt . That's why I got the cost for sure .

Alan 3:33

Well , it worked for sure . I appreciate it . So why was I telling that story ? You are researching oh , the statistics , yeah so again , don't quote me on this a very small percentage of the population ever starts a business and of that very small part of the population , a very , very small part of that percentage actually still exists in any 10-year period If a thousand people are in a room . Random sample , global .

Alan 4:06

I don't know 30 of them are entrepreneurs who start a real business , and then of those 30 , maybe three are still alive in 10 years and that doesn't even mean they're successful . That means they're alive . I mean alive as in , not bankrupt . By the way , I don't mean it's not like entrepreneurs necessarily die younger or anything like that , although I've never read any of those stats . Entrepreneurship is hard , so maybe there's some adverse effects , but the fear of success , I think comes from being different , and I think entrepreneurs inherently are different .

Kevin 4:48

You think it has to do with belief . Yeah , the host was very confident . He actually said are you calling me arrogant ? At one point , joking , that's the level of confidence he had . He's definitely been called arrogant many times , I'm sure . And I said and we had a good laugh about it it's like no , no , no , you know I'm not . And he said I am definitely more on the fear of success . And I said I would have bet that because you believe in yourself a lot , yeah , I don't , I don't know . It's almost like if you , if you , have a ton of doubt in yourself . Again , this was my experience . I had a fear of failure . I was more afraid of being left behind . I was more afraid that if I held on to certain friends that weren't necessarily good for me , I wouldn't be successful . I wasn't worried about being alone , I was worried about being unsuccessful . That was always my fear .

Alan 5:35

So anyone , who has a lot of self-belief , not fake self-belief , not inflated self-belief , genuine self-belief . And I've actually started breaking self-belief down into two categories . One is competence self-belief , which is you believe you can go achieve this external thing . The other one is belief in who you are , which is different . But right now I'm just talking about competence self-belief

Paradox of self-belief

Alan 5:59

and I'll tell a story to illustrate that , excuse me . So ever since I was 10 years old , I drove past with my mom . We were in her black BMW at the time . This was when my stepdad was still around . We drove past WPI and the bottom of the hill .

Alan 6:14

For those of you who know WPI , I know you hear about it all the time on this podcast but I was actually on a podcast recently with an HR director and she's like , oh , massachusetts , cool with an HR director . And she's like , oh , massachusetts , cool , I know Massachusetts well . I went to WPI and I was like , hmm , what year ? She's like , ah , you don't want to know what year is . A long , long time ago . I'm like what year ? So , anyways , it was a great conversation . I'm on her show next this week , this week actually , shout out to Guinevere , but anyways . So it was 10 years old and I went past the bottom of the hill at WPI with the big WPI sign and my mom said you're good at math . Your Uncle , merle , is the track and field coach there .

Alan 6:53

Engineers make a lot of money . You should be an engineer . Engineers are good at math , and that was the dream planted in my head of I'm going to be an engineer one day . It was always politician or lawyer , politician president , engineer , mba , ceo of a tech company , and so my buddy Kiki growing up was my best friend and he wanted to go as well . We were both good at math , he's brilliant , and we were going to go to WPI . He didn't get in , and so one of the reasons why people who have really , really , really , really , really high self-belief , get bullied or picked on or called arrogant is because to other people they do seem very arrogant . You've actually started to flip the script on this , where you'll be in the gym talking to someone and you unintentionally marginalize their goals by talking about yours .

Kevin 7:45

Yes , and you had that moment of , oh , he's going to think .

Alan 7:49

I'm arrogant when in reality , you're just being honest about what you're intending . So I was so naive , like I intended to go to WPI and be a CEO and that's genuinely what I intended to do . I wasn't being arrogant , I just calculated it and that was my truth . So my best friend at the time didn't get in and that caused a lot of sadness , and so I think that's what happens and I think the reason I was afraid of success was actually abandonment . It's been really hard for me to lose all my friends , even if it was by choice . That's been the hardest part of this journey for me .

Alan 8:30

So if you are afraid of success , underneath that is most likely some level of fear of abandonment or fear of being alone or fear of outgrowing people . If you're afraid of failure , most likely you're deep down just afraid of you're not good enough or you're not smart enough or you're not capable enough , and that's okay . Everyone has one or the other . There's a downside to every upside , of course . The upside to having low self-belief is you do fit in more naturally . The downside to having high self-belief is you probably feel very alone , and Kevin and I , because we have each other figured that out , because I had no idea what was going on .

Alan 9:09

I didn't understand why everyone thought I was arrogant . It didn't make any sense to me , and sometimes I really was arrogant , which makes it even more confusing , because sometimes I actually am overconfident , honestly , particularly in the short term , and so it's been really hard to figure all this out . But now that I know my fear is success , I can overcome it now . I can face it in advance , I can mourn the loss in advance , and I think we did an episode recently about that . But who knows , you know , maybe I'll be more fulfilled as a success , even if it comes with sadness and that's really the part that I've had to really work on accepting .

Kevin 9:52

I went I think I told you this one time behind the scenes because I was like I had a breakthrough about this fear of success thing . And this was , I don't know , maybe a year ago I was talking , I went on somebody's podcast and this person is just an exceptional human being , just very well put together , very intelligent , very clearly successful , very confident . Confident to the point where she doesn't understand how much more confident she is than most other people . And we did a podcast breakthrough session after and her and I had a really good relationship , we connected really well and she was talking to me at one point about how her neighbor who had , I think her neighbor had lived , had been her neighbor for many years and was always terrible to her , and I said is that a pattern ? And she said what do you mean ? I said , is it ? Do you get villainized a lot by people ? And she said , yeah , yeah , that tends to happen .

Kevin 10:44

And and we , I dug , and I dug and I dug again we're supposed to be talking about podcasting . It depends . It depends on the person . And we got to the point where we realized she was afraid of success , and that was one of the reasons why . Because every time she leaned into being successful , she got villainized more and more and more and more and more . And she

At NLU, we want you to win, so we're providing tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM.

Kevin 11:03

it would have been easier for her to play small , because when you play small you don't get to the podium and you don't have people looking at you and villainizing you . You don't get any of that . You don't necessarily get any love either , but you don't get any hate , yeah .

Alan 11:21

You know you do get some love , but you don't get as much , maybe as much . The magnitude of it , yeah , but it is easier to fit in sometimes than it is to to stand out . And the irony , the paradox of this is the people who easily fit in want to stand out . The people who stand out want to fit in . I used to be playful and I I joke kevin and I both give a speech to a thousand people . I'm worried that everyone's going to hate me , but I know I'll add more value than any other speaker . Kevin is wondering whether or not he's going to add value , but he knows he can get everyone laughing and liking him .

Alan 11:55

And the truth of the matter is is I said this in book club on Saturday . I said I don't really care if you guys have fun at book club . I only care about one thing I care that your life gets better from what you learn here today . I don't care If you are temporarily feeling uncomfortable . Good I I , as long as it's for a better future . It's worth it to me and I don't think that's . I say that and I try not to get triggered saying it .

Alan 12:24

But the truth of the matter is your future is not going to get bigger and brighter if you're not facing uncomfortable truths , and book club just happens to be one of those things . And I said this in book club . I said all of you , don't tell your friends about this . None of you tell your friends you're at book club right now that it's not cool to be at a book club . That's not cool . Half of these people hide the fact that that's what they're doing Not all of you , by the way , if you're listening . Not all of you . But the truth is it's not cool . It's way cooler to go to the movies than it is to go to a book club . So it just gets . It's kind of like personal growth and personal development and self-improvement and self-belief , and facing uncomfortable truths is almost like a dirty little secret that

Societal perceptions

Alan 13:07

you don't want anyone to know , because it's such a status build to to just show up with results .

Alan 13:12

People always say just show up with the results , don't talk about it . Well , that's the loneliest thing in the entire world . I would much rather . And , by the way , when you talk about things that are taboo , you know , about things that are taboo , you know , don't talk about money . Well , I wonder why we're all struggling with money . We're never able to talk about it . So it's important to whichever end you're on , face the fear . Face the fear and you'll be better off .

Kevin 13:41

And that's what Kevin and I had to do . Yeah , and we still do it . We're still doing it more and more and more and more and more , just leaning into it , more and more and more and more . I was talking to somebody in my email the other day and I went on this person's podcast a couple years ago , and this person is a doctor for NASA , a space doctor . I didn't even know it was a real thing .

Alan 14:04

I thought that was like in movies . I didn't know that was a real thing . I mean it makes sense .

Kevin 14:09

But I had a moment before where I said there's no way I'm supposed to be on this podcast . Some lines must have got crossed up . I don't belong here . There's no way I'm podcast . This person works for nasa . As a doctor I am .

Alan 14:26

I have a high school education son , this is not going to go well . It went really well . It went really well .

Kevin 14:28

Yeah , it went better than I expected but it really is always about and we're going to do a deeper dive

Face those fears

Kevin 14:35

for tomorrow's episode on this but it is , it's always about that . Do I just allow this fear to be the thing that stops me from doing this thing , or do I see what's on the other side of the fear ? And they're two very different lives . I'm sure you've heard the quote . Everything you want is on the other side of fear . Again , sexy looks really good on a bumper sticker . There's layers and levels to that . We'll talk more about that tomorrow , though , because we have a couple of really good stories about that for tomorrow's episode .

Alan 15:03

Last thing , I used to think of it like this you had this slide that you used to pull up , where there was a person stuck in the center of a fence and then fear was all around it . Yeah , so I used to think of fear like that . We all get trapped in this little box of you're afraid of success but you're also afraid of failure . So you don't want to go past this line of failure , but you also don't want to be so successful that you get ostracized by your peer , and so we all stay in this little box that our peers kind of put us in unconsciously . I don't think of fear like that anymore . I used to think of fear . You face the fear and you grow through it , you go through it .

Alan 15:43

I don't think of it like that anymore . I think of it more . You go inside and you face the fear inside of you and then you become more on the outside . That's a new way to start thinking about fear , because for me , I always thought of fear as oh well , I'm afraid to apply to that school . So I applied to an Ivy League school Tufts and I got in . Most people are afraid to apply because they might get rejected . For me , that never , landed .

Alan 16:14

I don't care if I get rejected . I don't , whatever , I'll just apply to another school , it's all fine Again . I know that sounds weird , maybe to someone who is afraid of rejection , but for me that never worked because that wasn't my fear . I'm not afraid to not get into WPI . I'll just try again next year . It's not that .

Alan 16:33

For me , what I am afraid of is losing all my friends and being the only one who gets in and

New way to start thinking about fear

Alan 16:39

leaving everyone behind and not being able to hang out with them anymore because I'm so different . So for me , instead of going through the fear , I think that analogy is for someone who is afraid to be rejected or afraid to do the thing . That's competence fear issue . That's not what I had . So what I had instead was a lack of social courage and a lack of facing the internal fears . So for me , I think of the fears inside of me instead of outside of me . Because the fears outside of me you know this , I don't . We get rejected by some mentor . Like how much does that bug me ? Oh , not at all . It doesn't affect me whatsoever . But we lose a team member , and I'm right . So for me , the fear is inside of me and it's inside you too . But if it is external fear , like Kev , think of the fear outside of you . And you got to get over that fence and you can , and you got to try and it's going to hurt but you can do it . Whereas with , if you're on , the fear of success , end my end . You got to face the fear in your own heart . It's not out there . I'm not afraid to climb a mountain , I'm not afraid to apply to a school , I'm not afraid to do the interview . That's not it For me . The fear is my inner circle . It's the abandonment stuff from losing three families by the time I'm 14 and that kind of stuff .

Alan 17:59

So most of my pain came from social , came from peers , came from bullies or villainized or losing people . The sadness , my pain , didn't usually come from rejection and failure in that way . So there's achievement failure and then there's social failure . And if you're good at the achievement part you're probably not as good at the social part . And if you're good at the social part you might not be as good at the achievement part because statistically speaking please don't villainize me for this you do fit in more easily and I've never felt like I fit in easily and some people don't know what that's like . It's really quite awful , to be honest , and I'd rather have it that than not believe in myself . But who knew , you know ?

Kevin 18:46

I don't know . I've said this before . I think it's probably easier on my end because you can just build belief .

Alan 18:53

I think I don't know , because I've never really been on the other end .

Kevin 18:57

I know , I know , I know Well , obviously .

Alan 18:59

Self-doubt must be very debilitating .

Kevin 19:01

It's very challenging .

Alan 19:02

end well , obviously self-doubt must be very debilitating it's very , it's very challenging .

Kevin 19:04

Yeah , it's very challenging , but I wonder we won't , we won't dive .

Alan 19:07

Both are challenging both are challenging .

Kevin 19:09

I wonder if there is an easier one to to work through . I don't know .

Alan 19:14

You gotta be on one end , right , I mean everyone's on one of those two ends I think so , and every I think everything has its .

Kevin 19:24

We'll save it . We'll save it for tomorrow's episode because we're talking about fear and I think we can intertwine some of the stuff we talked about today with what we talk about tomorrow and some of the stories we have . So we'll table it for now and then , 24 hours from today , you'll be able to hear us on a different episode . Talk about it . Next level Nation . If you are looking for a group of like-minded humans that will allow you to feel safe in being yourself , if you're looking for a group where you can grow and evolve and you don't have to worry about failure , you don't have to worry about success , because you're not going to be villainized or made fun of for either one , on either end , we have a private Facebook group called Next Level Nation . That is all about that . It's all about growth , all about evolving , all of that happy jazz . And if you are someone who is looking to chase your dreams more , to chase your dreams better , I'll use that word .

Kevin 20:18

Alan is a wonderful coach , whether you have a business or not . I think if you have a business , it'll help tremendously , but if you don't , he does relationship talks , coaching with Emilia and many , many , many other things , which is why at times it's hard to talk about what he does , because he does all sorts of different stuff . But can we also team , can we put Alan's link for a call in the show notes ? You have that right , I'm assuming .

Alan 20:39

Yeah , it's a Calendly link for 30 minutes .

Kevin 20:42

First one is free , right on All right Tomorrow for episode number 1,697 , we're creeping up on 1,700 . As I mentioned , we're going to tie a little bit of what we talked about today into tomorrow's episode . The monster in the closet isn't actually a monster . A couple of cool stories that will help that point land , hopefully . As always , we love you , we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you , and at NLU we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow .

Alan 21:10

Face those fears . Next level nation .

Kevin 21:14

Nice , All right . Ooh yeah , man Two down .