#1711 - Fear Isn’t A Stop Sign

In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about how fear, a strong feeling we all experience, can either stop us in our tracks or push us to do great things. They share stories about confronting fear directly, from the shaky moments of worry before a big chance to the growing confidence that comes after. It’s a surprising look at how fear can help us grow.

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Show notes:
(3:10) Afraid and aligned
(6:27) Yielding is different than stopping
(8:37) The alchemy of anticipation
(11:11) Brave hearts shine brightest
(14:52) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/f1FWAQA
(17:01) The complexities of fear
(18:29) The dangers of under-preparation
(21:32) When worry sparks your success
(23:42) Gradual progress: Such is life
(26:51) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed our latest episode. It was episode number 1710. Some of the best books don't teach you anything new necessarily.

Speaker 1 0:18

Today, for episode number 1711, fear isn't a stop sign. So I'm grateful we didn't decide the episode that we were going to do. What's the best way to frame this? When we signed off on the previous episode, we didn't know what we were going to do for this episode and I'm grateful we didn't, because this is a very timely episode based on an experience that I'm going through right now. So we did a social media post recently about the million listens, million dollar in the business mark and I got a lot of love. Shout out to anybody who gave me love on that. But our buddy, evan, evan Carmichael, commented and said something hashtag believe, like he does. And then he DM'd me and said congrats, guys, and all that happy jazz. And then today I woke up to another message from him and he said hey, I'm doing my. He said what are you doing on June 19th to June 21st?

Speaker 1 1:15

I said I don't know, let me, let me check my calendar, let me see what we got. And I said nothing, why, what's going on? And he said well, I'm having my mastermind, so there's going to be people that are part of my mastermind group flying in for a two-day thing that I do On the 19th. I'm going to have my camera crew here. So if you want to do like an interview, you can just come up. You don't need to bring your equipment or anything, and you can interview me in Toronto Dance Salsa, like we've done in the past, and then you can use it for a podcast episode. And I said cool, can we do an episode for podcast growth? You, I'd love to interview you on YouTube and entrepreneurship and all of that stuff. And he said yeah, absolutely. He said also, I'd love for you to come and speak to this group of people on podcasting. And immediately, immediately, I said yes. I said yep, done, I'm in, just let me know more information when you have it, I'm in. But immediately I got that hmm, hmm, hmm, interesting. So we're going to go to Toronto by ourself and we're going to get the Airbnb by ourself and then we're going to go interview Evan by ourself.

Speaker 1 2:24

I haven't done an interview without Alan since 2017. It's been seven years, I think, since I've done an interview without you. Is that true? I think. So that's wild. Yeah, so that's one piece. Two I've never interviewed anyone for Podcast Growth U. This is the first one. I just recorded episode number 100.

Speaker 2 2:43

So I've done 100 solo episodes and I haven't done a thank you 100 without a miss.

Speaker 1 2:48

Yeah, of course that's world class. And it's weird to me. It's like I said that to evan. I said, well, I'm only 100 episodes in, like that's a lot of episodes in. Yeah, in retrospect, you know, I would never would have said that in the beginning I'm only 100 episodes in. So immediately I have all of these fears coming up. And then it's like, well, what if I don't know enough about all of these things?

Afraid and aligned

Speaker 1 3:09

And again, I want to be very honest, because I don't know as much as I think. I wanted to be a guru back in the day and I wanted everybody to think I wasn't afraid of any of anything and I have had everything figured out. I realize that's number one. It's not true and number two it's not helpful. If you think I don't deal with any of the things you deal with, I'm not going to be able to help and I'm not going to resonate. That's why so many people didn't resonate with me or I didn't resonate with them in the beginning. So I had this moment with myself of because you're afraid and because it's aligned, that's how you know you have to do it. It's not even a choice. It's not well, I'd like to do it, but it's not a choice. You have to do it for me, because this is something that I've wanted, an opportunity like this, for a long, long, long, long time. A long time.

Speaker 1 4:01

Did I always think I was prepared for an opportunity like this? Not necessarily, but a simple example and this is just a really simple example of sometimes fear is more of a yield sign. You slow down, you take a breath, you get a lay of the land, you make sure everything's aligned and then you hit the gas. If you are trying to level up your life any of them health, wealth, life, love you're going to get the fears of, or you're going to get the pings of. I'm afraid of this. I don't know if I should do it. I'm not saying you should do everything you're afraid of because some things aren't aligned.

Speaker 1 4:39

Why, for me, am I ever going to overcome my fear of sharks? I don't know. Maybe for me am I ever going to overcome my fear of sharks? I don't know, maybe if Taryn and I have talked about going cage diving at some point in the future, I'm open to doing that, but there are some fears that I probably will never face, because it just doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. It's not worth it, it's not aligned enough. The fear isn't ultimately holding me back from where I want to get to.

Speaker 1 5:02

So I think that's a really good question and I I know we talked about this a little bit either earlier this week or last week, but based on the story, I figured it might hit a little bit differently. Is this fear just a fear, or is this fear going to hold me back from all of the things that I want. Is this fear, a door that's going to lead me to the brighter future that I'm working towards? If so, I think it's a yield, not a stop sign, and then we plan our path, we get our directions, we gas up the car and then we step on the gas. Hopefully.

Speaker 2 5:39

I told Kev that I don't know what I'm going to be able to add in this, Because we talked recently on an episode about the different types of fear, and one of them is more social fear and one of them is more competence fear, and I think for you it's a little bit of both, but I would say it's probably more competence. Am I going to be capable enough to do this? Am I going to be? Am I going to ask good questions? Do I know enough? That kind of thing?

Yielding is different than stopping

Speaker 2 6:03

Definitely I don't feel like I can authentically add value to that, because for me, I always felt competent enough. The only thing that I can add is the fears that are social, the fears that are fear of being villainized, fear of putting yourself out there, fear of maybe being too much, that kind of thing. So I think I want to just kind of interview you on this episode. Which is what is it? Yeah, complete interview. What does it feel like to get an opportunity that you would have always wanted and hoped and dreamed for and then to get it and not feel good about it?

Speaker 1 6:42

It's been that way since the beginning. It's been that way since the beginning. It's heavy. It's been that way since the beginning. It's been that way since the beginning. It's heavy, it's a heavy.

Speaker 1 6:50

I was doing the dishes this morning and I was literally already thinking of the questions I'm going to ask the second. I got the message. My brain went from say yes and then start planning. So I think I'm just so used to it at this point where because this is the thing and this is why it's so hard to make sure it always lands I didn't go from doing one episode to then interviewing Evan, to then getting this opportunity.

Speaker 1 7:22

So at this point we have already interviewed Evan three or four times. We've met him in person three or four times. I've talked to him a lot, a ton, a bunch of episodes. It's just the contrast between yesterday and today is far less than if I just interviewed him and I had never given a speech and then he gives this opportunity. So in a way, I think the bigger the opportunity gets, the better it is, as long as it's further into the journey. This is potentially the biggest opportunity I've had with Evan, but it's also seven years into the journey, so I'm not nearly as afraid, compared to even the first interview we did with him.

The alchemy of anticipation

Speaker 1 8:13

That's such a hard thing. The weight is heavier and the opportunity is greater, but I'm also stronger than I used to be, so it doesn't seem as bad as it did in the beginning, even though I still get that little gut punch of that's going to be a rough weekend or a rough four day. That's going to be a lot for you. When's the last time I traveled by myself? Well, I did recently, but not to Toronto. I'm not going to drive. I'm most likely going to take a flight. That's cool. I'm going to do that. Fly into another country by myself. Like I haven't done that in a minute. So it's just, it's all of that stuff for me, it's all of that, but I also there's the piece of me that knows I can't say no, yeah, yeah yeah, okay, can we talk about that?

Speaker 2 8:57

Because if you said no because of fear, what a giant L? Oh, I'd regret that forever, yeah, and that's worse than the anxiety of going 100% I think Again, I think.

Speaker 1 9:09

For me it is yeah, the anxiety will go away. The regret would never go away. Nice, the anxiety goes away when you and again, for me, this is me I don't have I don't know if I have what you consider textbook anxiety, I don't even know if there is a textbook anxiety, but the night before. So we're recording this. On Friday, tara and I are flying to Scotland on Monday. I'm getting the feels right now. I are flying to Scotland on Monday. I'm getting the feels right now. I'm getting the airport feels. I'm getting the seven-hour flight feels. I'm getting that. I'm starting to get that, but I know I'd regret it if I let that stop me. I know I'd regret it. It's just, it's the moments of bravery that lead to, hopefully, years of fulfillment versus the moments of cowardice that lead, hopefully, years of fulfillment versus the moments of cowardice that lead to years of regret. Yeah, that's fine. I've been on both ends, though, and regret sucks worse because you can't do anything about it.

Speaker 1 10:03

Yeah, you can't, you can't do anything. Let's say this. Let's say I go to Toronto and I wake up in the morning and I say I can't do it, not for me. And I leave when I have more excuse me, more or less regret than if I didn't do it probably less, because at least I tried and at least when you get in there you can start to pull on some things and say, all right, let me try this. Okay, now that I'm here and the flight's over, I'm actually less anxious than I thought I was going to be Okay. Or now that I'm here and I'm in the Airbnb, I'm actually more anxious than I thought I was going to be Okay. Did I prep enough? So yeah, I think, if I could, the simplest takeaway for that would be I think anxiety fades for me when I do something. I'm always so grateful and so empowered after. But regret is something that you, I think you look at forever regrets a permanent marker. Anxiety for me is a whiteboard.

Brave hearts shine brightest

Speaker 2 11:00

You can erase it when you're done, but the permanent marker stays there for a long, long, long time so for someone who thinks they want and this is a fascinating thing that I've contemplated a lot for many years which is people will see people on the surface who have a result that let's take a famous person, for example they have significance, they have fame, they have influence, they have wealth, they have opportunity, but there's a lot of things below the surface that you don't see, that you wouldn't want. That actually allows that to be a thing. So what's a good example of that? Do I have a good, tangible example? Being a business owner is probably a good one, and it's one that I can relate to deeply.

Speaker 2 11:50

Okay, I'm a business owner and Kevin's a business owner, and that sounds really cool and it is great, but it comes with all this stuff underneath the surface that no one sees, which is you and I when we're on our trips. We're both going on trips. We still have to work. If something goes wrong, ultimately it's on us. There's no one that's going to like step in and make sure things don't go astray. So the responsibility underneath the iceberg that no one sees the anxiety and I don't know if I would classify what I experience as anxiety and then there's people who get anxious about being anxious, which creates even more anxiety. And so and maybe I do have some anxiety, I don't know Based on some of the stress research I've done there's distress and eustress, so there's some stress that's actually good for you.

Speaker 2 12:57

It's the stress of challenge, the stress of anticipation, the stress of growth. The pressure cooker is what we call it when you're in the pressure cooker. And so my question for you, kev, is for someone who thinks they want X but they don't know what's beneath the iceberg that comes with X. What would you say to younger Kev who dreamed of opportunities like this, to prepare him for opportunities like this?

Speaker 1 13:33

I don't know if you're ever going to get to a place where you get a new, bigger opportunity and there isn't a new level of fear or discomfort or uncertainty. I think that's just kind of the way it works. I think that's the way it works. And the problem is, if you say no, that's kind of where it ends, that's kind of where it ends.

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:

Speaker 1 13:55

Yeah, it's kind of where it ends. It's not like you're going to do a zero fear. I mean, maybe it is. It's going to be a zero fear to a hundred fear, but that hundred fear just feels like a hundred fear. It's like if you're afraid of heights going up on a step stool that's three feet tall, it might scare you, but it's not that dangerous. I mean, yeah, something could happen. You could fall and twist your ankle, or if you jumped off onto your head you could hurt yourself for sure. But just from a height perspective, three feet's not super dangerous. I mean, that's your bed, that's you standing on top of your bed, not super high. But if you had never done that before and you were afraid of heights, that might feel like a hundred feet. So that might be a 10 out of 10. Next time, when you go from three feet to six feet, you're on a six foot ladder. That might seem like it's 200 feet because it's higher, but you know you did the three feet, so you know it was only three feet more than it was last time. So I think there's like a buffer.

Speaker 1 15:00

It's not zero to a hundred and then back down to zero to a hundred. It's zero to a hundred. Then you realize the hundred was actually only 50. And then the next thing isn't a hundred, it's like 70. And then 70 becomes 80, and then 80 becomes 85, and then 85 becomes 87 and 87 becomes 88. And then it just gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. If I got a call, let's just say Evan said actually, man, I changed my mind. I have a speech in front of 20,000 people and I want you to come speak with me. That would be like that's the 100. Like, wait what?

Speaker 2 15:30

I don't know if I'm ready for that.

Speaker 1 15:31

Yes, of course I'd have to. I'd have to. What am I to say no.

Speaker 2 15:35

How would that change the anxiety levels?

Speaker 1 15:44

Poop, more poop in my pants, lots more poop in my pants.

Speaker 2 15:46

Lots more poop in my pants.

Speaker 1 15:48

I don't know, it would be terrifying, but I think anxiety for me and again this is my experience anxiety for me is a superpower because it makes me over prep. It makes me over prep. I'm just going to over prep. I'll prep more than I should, probably, and then hopefully it'll go better than expected. I'm already prepping In my mind. I'm already thinking of okay, how am I going to introduce it, how is this going to go? I'm already doing it in my head. I'm already prepping. I'm in my mind, I'm already thinking of okay, how am I going to introduce it, how is this going to go? I'm already doing it in my head.

Speaker 2 16:18

I'm already prepping so one thing I want to ask too I know we got to jump kev you know those people who say don't worry so much. Yes, I think that's bad advice. I agree, you're worried about this going poorly. I agree, you're worried about this going poorly. Therefore, you are doing everything you can to prepare yourself to make it go better. Yes, don't you feel like there's some self-improvement advice out there, that kind of? They say well, why worry about the future? The only thing you have is the present moment. Don't worry about the past. Don't worry about the past, don't worry about the future. You ever hear that.

Speaker 1 16:56

Yeah, that's the worst advice ever. I think it's dangerous.

The complexities of fear

Speaker 2 17:00

It's dangerous advice, because if you don't worry at all about this interview, you're not going to be prepared.

Speaker 1 17:09

Well, here's the connection. I did an episode on Podcast Growth U where I talked about this. Here's the connection. I did an episode on Podcast Growth U where I talked about this. One of the big mistakes that podcasters make when they're doing interviews is they seem unprepared. They might not actually be unprepared, but they seem unprepared. If we were to go back to how this whole thing played out, if you're just tuning in for the first time ever, you might not even know who Evan Carmichael is. And again, who knows, this might change. This might not end up happening. I doubt it, because Evan is Evan, so when he says something's going to happen, it does. But who knows? I literally just got this message today, so things could change.

Speaker 2 17:42

I'm pretty sure it's going to happen, brother.

Speaker 1 17:49

He continued doing a tour while he I don't want to put it out there like this is. You know it's going to happen, but I want to give a shout out to Evan for that, because that's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 17:57

He's a sicko. Do you know what that story was? He shifted something in his neck. I don't know if he broke his neck. No, I think he broke his neck and then stayed on tour.

The dangers of under-preparation

Speaker 1 18:06

Yeah, he's a sicko. He said like, just lean me against the wall. I think, like just lean me against the wall, I think, after he, I think he like passed out and then cracked his neck and then, when he woke up, I think he said, just lean me against the wall and let me finish. And I don't think they would let him. I think. I think that's what happened god but then he continued to tour the us with in a neck brace I respect it I do, I respect it.

Speaker 1 18:29

He's a good for him all right, quick, quick story and then we'll get out of here. If, if you're just tuning in and you know who Evan is, maybe you're thinking well, you know, it's time. You have a bunch of episodes and you guys are quote-unquote successful and blah, blah, blah. The only reason this is happening is because the first time we interviewed Evan, we overprepared. I was afraid it was going to go bad and we, we overprepared and we were only supposed to have 20 minutes with him. Oh yeah, that's right. But we ended up.

Speaker 1 18:59

He said you guys are really good, I want to keep going. So we ended up doing an hour with him. Then we got. The only reason is because we overprepared. Then we got invited to interview him in Toronto because he remembered us as the people who overprepared. Then we ended up asking him if he would speak on stage with us and he did, and then the relationship was built on reliability. It's not because I had that moment of well, he knows he knows more successful podcasters than me. For sure, he knows all of them.

Speaker 2 19:30

Yeah, he was all of the people texting at the dinner table with us. Yeah, he knows, he knows all of them.

Speaker 1 19:33

Yeah, he was all of the people texting bernard burchard at the dinner table with us. Yeah, he knows he knows all of these people, but he also knows that we're reliable, I'm reliable, you're reliable so it's.

Speaker 2 19:42

He also knows you're relatable too. I think that he cares a lot about that. That's his brand being relatable for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 19:48

It's based on the fact that we over prepared. When you over prepare, overprepare, you get better. I think you get better results versus I've had people say, I've had people interview me, butcher my name and then kind of laugh about it Not from, I messed your name up, you're an idiot. More like ah, don't you just hate when that happens, that you didn't prepare.

Speaker 1 20:11

I will never give you an opportunity like I'll give someone else yeah being on the other side of the table now, like being the person that's being interviewed, who then loves to help people, because I'm talking to podcasters all day in my dms. I love it. You know the ones that I love the most the most humble, the most prepared and the most just the good humans yeah, I agree those are like the three, but they're prepared, they don't.

Speaker 1 20:38

They don't say to themselves well, I know, I just kind of want the interview to be what it is if. If that's your flow, then that's maybe that works for you. It doesn't work for me, it's never worked for me, because I'll under prepare and then I'll regret it. I'd rather over prepare and use less ammo. I'd rather come to the battle with all the ammo I need and then I'll regret it. I'd rather over-prepare and use less ammo. I'd rather come to the battle with all the ammo I need and then go home with some ammo because I didn't need it. I'd rather do that Always, always, always. But if you are someone who is anxious, like I am, maybe over-preparing is your superpower and eventually you get to the place where I already had that moment where I said, kev, don't worry about it as much as you normally would from the perspective of don't let this run your life for the next month.

Speaker 2 21:22

Yeah, that's the problem, because if this affects you all the way until June 19th. You're in trouble because you're a business owner and we need you.

When worry sparks your success

Speaker 1 21:28

You're going to be good. You've done that. I mean, you're talking about podcasting. It's all you're talking about podcast. That's all you do. You're going to be fine. I know internally you don't think so, but let's look at the most recent and relevant proof. The most recent and relevant proof you spoke at next level live. It went fine. You've been interviewed on a bunch of like that. That's how I need to ground myself. So yeah, it's, it's tough. It's a tough situation for sure. All right, we gotta go.

Speaker 2 21:54

One more thing real quick, quickly, quickly. I just want to share this. So Kev is still afraid and I think it's awesome that you share. That. I appreciate it, of course, but you've done 1,700 episodes of this show. You've done over 1,000 as a guest. Is that fair?

Speaker 1 22:13

No, I'm not at 1,000, yet I ate something. I don't know the exact number, so I just say 800 to 900, just to be safe.

Speaker 2 22:19

Okay, 800 to 900 to be safe, but coming up on 1,000, by the end of the year you'll probably be at 1,000. Probably. And the point that I'm trying to make isn,700 episodes, 1,000 plus 1,700, again I'm rounding up he's still wondering whether or not he knows enough about podcasting. Who does something 2,700 times and meets that maker 2,700 times and then still is wondering if they don't know enough. I just I think there's a lesson in that because, to your point, some people are never going to feel fully over. I don't know if you ever fully overcome fear. Like am I ever gonna not be afraid? I don't know enough I don't know enough.

Speaker 1 23:10

That's the truth. The truth is, I don't know as much as I could, of course, and it'll it'll be that way forever. I don't know enough because I don't know everything. Right, but I'll never know everything but you don't feel prepared fully.

Gradual progress: Such is life

Speaker 2 23:23

And now you know that you never will. You'll feel more prepared, but you'll never feel fully prepared. And I think that, whatever your deepest fear is and, like I said, I don't think that I have that fear I think fear is like am I ever going to be not afraid to be villainized? I don't think so. I don't think I'll ever not. I'll never fully. Not have that a little bit, but you can overcome it a little more, a little more, a little more, a little more. That's all I'm saying is for anyone out there listening whatever 2,700 reps of that thing and then still having a little bit of. Am I good enough for this?

Speaker 1 23:57

And I think that's very relatable for a lot of people. I would concur. I would concur, I'm excited. I'm excited for sure. Last thing before we go sometimes what I try to do is I try to say am I anxious or am I excited? Or can I take this anxiety and turn it into excitement? Sometimes I try that as well. How does that work? I think it depends on the situation. I'm super excited to go to Scotland, super excited, but I'm also somewhat anxious. But I'm more excited than I am anxious.

Speaker 2 24:24

That's living, that's what life is.

Speaker 1 24:26

Such is life. Yeah, that's the way. Yes, such is life. Those are the moments where you say like I am alive. When I said this one time on a podcast, I said I'm most at the time, I'm most afraid of public speaking, but that's also when you're stepping on stage and you know that there are no safety nets and things could go horribly wrong. You are alive. There's nothing like that. You want to talk about being present. You're like too present, yeah, and you just feel alive. All right, tomorrow for episode number 1712 freestyle friday we don't know what we're going to talk about because it's freestyle friday. We haven't done the freestyle friday yet, but you will see a title when you go to click. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at nlu we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow keep facing those fears.

Speaker 2 25:18

Next level nation.