Next Level University

#1713 - 1 Way To Work Through Imposter Syndrome

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Imposter syndrome is a familiar foe for many of us, manifesting as a persistent fear of being exposed as a “fraud,” even when we’re well-qualified and competent. In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros present an unconventional approach: transforming imposter syndrome from a source of self-doubt into a catalyst for genuine growth.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:09) The two R’s
(6:12) Pointing to the right direction
(9:35) Beyond current capabilities and struggle with belonging
(15:51) Authenticity frequency
(20:10) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/f1FWAQA
(22:24) Humility and self-acknowledgment
(25:18) Navigating imposter syndrome and high standards
(30:31) Overcoming imposter syndrome at both ends of the spectrum
(38:41) Outro

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🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation . Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University , where we help you level up your life , your love , your health and your wealth . We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode , episode number 1712 , it was Freestyle Friday . We talked about an easy relationship mistake . Today , for episode number 1713 , one way to work through imposter syndrome .

Speaker 1

I wanted to do this episode because that has been one of the most common questions I've been getting on other podcasts is how do you deal with imposter syndrome ? How do you work through imposter syndrome ? How do you overcome imposter syndrome ? We did an episode months and months and months ago where I talked about how I don't think there is anything resembling overcoming imposter syndrome . I think you make friends with imposter syndrome Now more than ever .

Speaker 1

I believe imposter syndrome is a really good suggestion that you're growing and you are currently pushing the outer bounds of what you're capable of . So if you I don't know if you just got a new job and now you're leading people for the first time and you've never led people before , maybe that gives you imposter syndrome because you're thinking to yourself who am I to lead these human beings ? Okay , next time when you get a raise or you get a promotion or you move to a new company or whatever it is , maybe instead of leading five people , you lead 15 people . You might have the same thing happen Well , I've led five people , but 15 is three times that . Who am I to lead 15 people ? And eventually you're doing 100 people and then maybe it's 200 people . You're probably going to have that conversation with yourself each time , at least .

Speaker 2

I have .

Speaker 1

That's been my experience . So I'll get right to the point , because I don't like a lot of fluff when it comes to content . This is what's worked best for me . Anytime I get imposter syndrome , anytime I have that feeling of I'm not good enough to do this . Who am I to do this ? What if I get found out ? What if I know less than I know ? What if this person knows that I don't know what I'm talking about , even though I do ?

The two R's

Speaker 1

I have the two R's .

Speaker 1

I have recent proof and relevant proof , recent and relevant proof . I'm sure I've said this on this podcast before , but I went on a podcast one time and the host was a doctor for NASA . This person was a space doctor . Remember me talking about that , mm-hmm . And I had a moment in the green room when I was backstage , virtually when we were getting ready to chat , where I thought to myself there is no way I'm supposed to be on this show . There must be another Kevin Palmieri , I don't . Maybe they , I don't know , maybe they think I'm a rocket scientist or something , maybe something happened . I don't know , there's no way I'm supposed to be on the show , but I had this . I literally sat there and thought about this . I said , well , what's the most recent and relevant proof against what my current beliefs are ? And I thought , oh yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

I went on a podcast a couple of weeks ago . It was somebody that was a doctor of psychology . It was hosted by them and we had a wonderful conversation and I had the same fear before I went on that show . I don't belong on this show . I didn't even go to school and this person's a doctor of psychology and I talk a lot about psychology and self-worth and self-belief and self-awareness and all this stuff about psychology and self-worth and self-belief and self-awareness and all this stuff . But I'm not studied like this person is . Who am I to be on this show ? It went really , really , really well .

Speaker 1

So , taking an example from an episode that we used recently , imagine everything you've done . Every time you have done something in the category of what you're about to do , you had a new piece of paper . So I went on one podcast that I didn't think I was really capable of doing . All right , that's a piece of paper in my belief book . Then I did it again , then I did it again , then I did it again . If you looked back on all of those pieces of paper . You would have a book of proof that proves to you that you're probably more capable than you believe you are . You could use a coin in a jar . When I was growing up I remember I had a . I didn't have a piggy bank , alan . I had a tall . It was a plastic beer . It was I don't even know . It was three feet tall . It was a Heineken bottle .

Speaker 2

I remember those . Yeah , you got it at uh spencer gifts right , I have no idea .

Speaker 1

My mom , I think my mom had it . I think my mom gave it to me , oh , but it was uh remember spencer gifts of course way back yeah , that was .

Speaker 2

I learned a lot about sex from spencer , gifts yeah , there's a section in spencer gifts that kids aren't allowed to go in but nobody stops you from going there .

Speaker 1

Yeah , don't go in that corner over there .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and then what do ?

Speaker 1

we do ? I won't . I won't at all . I think of how I poured that bad Larry out one day and there was so much change in there . But that's because how much was it ? $150 ? I don't remember . This was years ago . We're talking like years and years and years and years , decades ago , but it's the same thing . You might think that the small things you're doing don't add up until you look at the large accumulation of those things , and that's worked really , really well for me .

Speaker 1

When it comes to imposter syndrome , I don't know if it'll ever go away . I don't think I want it to go away , because if it goes away , is that a suggestion that I'm not growing anymore ? Maybe I just have tried to make friends with the fact that that's going to happen . Occasionally it's almost like I don't know . It's almost like getting seasick . You know it's going to happen , so you do the things necessary to make sure that it doesn't wreck the trip , being afraid of flying . There are certain things you can do to make it better for you . Maybe it's a meditation , maybe you take medication before you go . Whatever it is that can be helpful . So I'm thinking of this as a practice more than something that's going to create an end .

Pointing to the right direction

Speaker 1

When I say work through imposter syndrome , I'm not saying you're not going to have it . I'm saying when you get it . If you look at the most recent and relevant proof , it is hyperlogical and hopefully it'll give you something to point to towards proof that you're more capable than you think .

Speaker 2

Two things I want to share . The first one is this week has stretched me a lot . Kev's going to Scotland , I'm going on a road trip to South Carolina and we've done 21 episodes of Next Level University in a row this week and I'm shooting for 30 podcasts in a single week as of right now , and I'm close to the 30 mark . Right now I think I'm five off , so I think I'm at 25 for the week . So I'm sorry if I'm cooked , I'm just gonna pour whatever's left in the glass like give it . Give us what you got , i'm'm going to give it . Hell , okay . So what do I have to pour ? About imposter syndrome ? I told Kev before this episode . I said I don't know if I have a lot to add here he said I got nothing for you .

Speaker 1

I got nothing for you , brother .

Speaker 2

I don't have much . Yeah , I don't feel like . And I was wondering to myself what's the opposite ? Because I remember one time we were at a Father's Day barbecue and I said for me it's harder to be in this environment than it is for me to be in a personal growth environment . So we interviewed someone named Stephen Cotter way back , and he wrote a book called the Art of Impossible and he has been studying neuroscience and the biochemistry of greatness for lack of better phrasing for decades and we , when we did that interview , I felt at home . I felt like this is , this is not only a conversation I adore , but I , I really get this stuff . I've been studying this stuff for years . This is who I am , is what I am . This is peak performance , is my jam and , kev , you had imposter syndrome .

Speaker 1

Definitely .

Speaker 2

And it wasn't long after that where we went fishing on Father's Day where I grew up small lake , big pond and we were at sort of a Father's Day barbecue with one of my neighbors that I grew up with and I ended up telling Kev that it's actually harder for me to fit in here than it is for me to fit in with Stephen Collar , and you said that the opposite was true for you . So I was wondering to myself what's the opposite of imposter syndrome ? I feel like I have imposter syndrome when I'm at a barbecue in a way , but it's like it's a different kind , almost like I have to shut parts of myself off , whereas you feel like you have to turn parts of you on .

Speaker 1

Maybe I don't even feel like those parts of me exist . I don't . Yeah , it's not that I have to turn parts on , it's that I'm not . I'm genuinely not enough . My being is not capable of doing what I'm going to do .

Speaker 2

So you and I are leaning into who we are , and I just want to do that here and again . I'm kind of cooked , so I'll just say that up front . When you say you're interviewed by a NASA doctor , a space doctor , I wonder how I would feel in that same situation . I don't think you'd feel anything , and the question becomes

Beyond current capabilities and struggle with belonging

Speaker 2

is that because I belong there ? Is that because I'm delusional ? Is that because I have parts of me that resonate with that frequency ? I don't know what the truth is . I think this is the framework .

Speaker 2

I think imposter syndrome comes when you are beyond your current capabilities , and I think that if you are beyond your current capabilities , it feels like you have to turn on things that you don't have , whereas when I'm at a wedding or I'm at a barbecue or I'm out and about having small talk , conversations with people at the gym I run into , or whatever , I feel like I have to turn a lot of who I am down because it's not excuse me , maybe relevant or may be relevant , or so if you're out there listening or watching this , you've probably experienced imposter syndrome in the way Kevin's describing it , and I'm wondering who out there might have experienced imposter syndrome on the opposite end , and I wouldn't call it imposter syndrome , but in a way you don't fit in either .

Speaker 2

Yeah , so you didn't feel like you fit in with the nasa doctor . I don't feel like I fit in with some of the people I run into , and I never used to share that publicly , by the way , so this is brand new for me , but I wonder . That's just what I'm contemplating . Okay , so now to flip the script , and this is really my intention for the episode , which is how do we , how do you overcome that ? Because in a way , over the seven-year journey , everything's been a little different for you yeah , I don't know different you .

Speaker 2

You always used to say things like this is a lot harder for me than it is for you , and I didn't know what you were talking about back then . What were you talking about ?

Speaker 1

well , firstly , firstly , first off , firstly , whatever the correct saying is , I wonder if it's just a lack of belonging . I , if I was my true , authentic self , I would not belong here and I would not be fully welcomed here . Cause it's almost like on your end , you just opt out of trying to be something you're not , but then you risk the potential that nobody's going to resonate with you . You know , maybe you go to dinner and people are having small talk or whatever . Whatever it is that you don't resonate with , you , just don't play that game and then potentially deal with the , the consequences , whatever they may be .

Speaker 2

I think I thought everyone was doing that , for example . So in college I used to I always talk about how I would always try to fit in when you said that you're more you at a barbecue . I don't know if I get it , because I think I thought everyone was fitting in and we all are to some extent right . I think it's easier .

Speaker 1

It's easier to be me because I can just be . I can just be . I don't have to turn anything on or off . I'm just me . That's me . I also don't know . I think I'm a really good chameleon and I don't have a negative association with that . I'm not somebody who was forced to be a certain way . I don't have that experience . I'm not someone who always had to turn it down . I'm not someone who always had to turn it down . I'm not someone who always had to turn it up . I , for most of my life , just tried to be me . Do you feel like ?

Speaker 2

but it's weird because you , you don't feel like you fit in . You always thought you were weird . You didn't know normal growing up , that kind of thing , so it's just weird . It's , yeah , you fit in and you feel like it's easy to fit in and you feel super relatable , but yet you're completely different than everybody else in these other weird ways of being a fighter and wanting to be a rapper and all that kind of stuff .

Speaker 2

So , again , we're learning ourselves . But I did say this to someone recently who was it ? One of my clients , one of my younger clients . He's like , well , I don't want to be alone and I said , statistically , you are , and I'm not trying to be mean about it , you just are very different . There is an objective . What's a good example of this ? Let's say that you , let's say that you .

Speaker 2

What's a good example of this ? Let's say you can dunk a basketball when you're 14 years old . Statistically you're alone . There's not a lot of people who can relate to that . Now imagine you're the kid who gets straight A's and everything comes easy to you . Statistically you are alone . So you have to manufacture belonging in a way just to survive . Good , will Hunting is a good example of this . I love that movie because that movie is such a good character study of the human condition .

Speaker 2

Will Hunting in the movie is a genius and he has to very much . He reads books super fast and he studies constantly when he's alone . But he kind of hides that from his friends and this MIT professor finds him and he solves math equations on the board as a janitor when no one's watching . And then they hunt him down and find out that it was him who did it and it's this whole thing . But the point is he is a statistical anomaly and so his fear he was in foster care and his fear in the movie is to be alone . And statistically he is alone .

Speaker 2

And there's this one part of the movie that's so powerful . The MIT professor basically says it bothers me so much because there's only five people in the world who can tell the difference between you and me ? But I happen to be one of them and I can't watch you throw it all away . And what he's trying to say there is that you're different and you know it and you always have been and you always

Authenticity frequency

Speaker 2

will be . But what the professor doesn't understand in the movie is that he doesn't want to be different . He wants to fit in and be normal or relatable or loved . And so it's this weird duality of imposter syndrome you either feel like an imposter socially or you feel like an imposter competence-wise . I think I've always felt like an imposter socially .

Speaker 1

I never felt like an imposter .

Speaker 2

I don't feel like I would feel imposter syndrome at all with the NASA doctor and I know how arrogant that will come off . I really do . I feel like I would fit in great .

Speaker 1

Well , I think the truth of the matter is , if you wanted to , you could have been a doctor at NASA . I think that's a piece of it .

Speaker 2

I do believe that's true .

Speaker 1

I don't get it . When we interviewed Kenny Florian , I didn't have imposter syndrome of this is a person who was a professional fighter and that it wasn't . That it was like not peers . Trust me , it's not that I don't know , it's more well , maybe I could have got there , but you could just be .

Speaker 1

Yeah , but I think I could be . I could just be based on the fact that me I'm an MMA fan , just like with Justin Freeman , one of my favorite interviews ever . I could just be because I'm a rap fan , just like with Justin Freeman , one of my favorite interviews ever . I could just be because I'm a rap fan . I'm genuinely . That is who I am . That's my frequency , stephen Kotler . I can't just be , and I did . I ended up saying I'm just going to be the funny guy in this interview because I can tell I'm in over my head here .

Speaker 2

Yeah , in that one I could just be be , that was just a conversation for me yeah .

Speaker 1

So I think that's all it is is . It's just a , it's a frequency . How , how much of your authentic truth can you be , can you show without being looked at differently ? So Alan is the chief financial officer , chief finance officer of NLU , and he'll message me stuff like hey , do you , are you using this ? Do we need this ? Oh , no , no , that's like 50 bucks a month . We don't need that . Let's can that . And you and I had a conversation today which I don't think you mind me sharing . He'll , alan , will message me and say hey , man , time for me to be a pain in the butt . Are you , are you , do you still use Netflix , or should we cancel that ? And I said , brother , stop saying it's time for me to for me to be a pain in the butt . I know what you're doing , you're fine , you're good , just be you .

Speaker 2

That's what you're supposed to be In the beginning , though could I have done that ?

Speaker 1

This is where we get real raw on the NLU it . Yeah , yeah , but we weren't there yet . I know we weren't there . What if you weren't ?

Speaker 2

well developed enough to handle that in a way possible I wasn't so but maybe , but maybe I wasn't courageous enough to be fully me , which also is a self-fulfilling prophecy if I'm not fully me , well , the truth is .

Speaker 1

That would mean neither of us were developed enough . Agreed , that's a great . You would just be developed in a different direction , way . Yeah , yeah exactly so .

Speaker 2

The social courage , competence , courage thing is what keeps coming up . I think it's really scary to be me , fully me , at a backyard barbecue . So I kind of just have to turn down like when we go to . I love the NLHF , the Next Level Hope Foundation . We do a Father's Day event . We're doing one on the 15th of June it's the Saturday before Father's Day and shout out to Amy Amy and I were just planning it and there's a whole checklist and all this stuff . I love that event , but I can't be fully me in that event because , right , no one wants to talk about quantum physics for funsies and so I kind of just have to just have fun and go back into that , that mode of me that loves sports and and is competitive and stuff . But even even with that I have to dial that down quite a bit too . It's like my competitive nature . A lot of that is dialed down . It's the intense energy that you were talking about recently on an episode . And again I'm just contemplating all this .

Speaker 2

But what is the opposite of imposter syndrome ? The opposite of imposter syndrome is

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy.

Speaker 2

I would go to a concert in the past and I would have that moment of I don't belong here . I don't want to be here . I'm not supposed to be here . It's that .

Speaker 2

And I always looked around . I remember having lonely moments looking around , going why am I the only one who doesn't seem to be having a blast ? And I think in I checked in with myself . My calling is different than this , I'm not supposed to be here . And other people would say that the other way of I got farther than I thought I'd get or or whatever . So again , there's two sides to the coin and I think we should focus more on the original imposter syndrome versus the belonging social one . But if you feel imposter syndrome when you're in a certain group of friends , that's a sign . And then the question becomes do you feel like an imposter because you're too much or because you're too little ? Too little , maybe that's a good thing , maybe you'll grow . I think you've got to get outside your comfort zone and be around people that have bigger , better , brighter futures . Go ahead .

Speaker 1

You and I have an acquaintance have bigger , better , brighter futures , go ahead . You and I have an acquaintance and I told you at one point I said that person's not for me . They're just not for me . They're just not my type of person . They're a little bit arrogant . They're a little bit arrogant , not my type of person . I don't want to fit in with them . I have no desire to fit in with them .

Speaker 2

I have no desire to fit in with them .

Speaker 1

Zero , zero , because I would completely have to abandon who I am . But why would you want to fit in with me ? Because you're the . The parts of you that I am not yet are not negative ones . The reason I'm not more like you is not necessarily because I don't aspire to be , it's just because it's hard . It's more about it's more about learning and evolving and growing than it is being more arrogant or being better at telling dirty jokes or being better at disrespecting people . That it's not the same . It's not the same .

Speaker 1

I think there are people to aspire to be around , because , you know , I think you make me better , I think you make me a better man . For sure , 100% , 100% , nice . And yeah , yeah , yeah . And there's so much

Humility and self-acknowledgment

Speaker 1

for me to . I said this today on a podcast . I said if you don't think I have a boss because I'm an entrepreneur , you are wrong . I do have a boss . For sure , alan is my boss and Alan is my coach and Alan is the leader . But that's awesome .

Speaker 1

I'm way better off than I would be if I was running this ship . We would have crashed into several icebergs by now . There's no chance . There's no chance . There's no chance . Are you a pain in the butt at times . Yes , just like I'm a pain in the butt to you at times , I just think you and I are real enough to say well , I think I'd be better off with this pain in the butt than I would be without it . Oh for sure , 100% . And at times it's almost like maybe this is what's happening . I'm getting you back a little bit for all the times that I had imposter syndrome on episodes because we had guests on . Now , since I choose most of the episodes , it's like ah , maybe this will be a little uncomfortable for Alan , but I think it's good for him . Yeah .

Speaker 2

Maybe that's what's happening . I know we got to jump . I had a conversation with Amy earlier and I don't know if she heard the episode or not yet because we're so far ahead . One of the cool things about leading the NLU team is they all listen to the show . Not all of them . Most of them listen to the show and it's not a requirement or anything , but it's encouraged . We try to eat our own cooking at NLU Kevin and I included , by the way , but I was on with Amy and it was interesting because we're 14 , or however many , ahead and normally I can have conversations with her about what we're going through and growing through , and she's already privy to that information because she already heard the episode , because she's diehard every single day . I know you . Thank you , aim .

Speaker 2

We did an episode where you talked about energy , intense energy and and my energy . She said I asked her perspective on it . I said what do you ? What is your experience ? I genuinely want to know . Don't , don't inflate my ego , don't , don't go docile , don't tell me anything above or below the truth . I just want objective truth . What is it actually like ? And she said it's just an energy of ridiculously high standards . And what she said is it's when you're around you you can't just be , you have . There's a standard , there's just a standard in the air . That's the best way she described it . There's a standard in the air . It's we're not here to have fun , we're not here to mess around , we're here to do something meaningful . That's the way she described it . I thought that was kind of cool and I had this moment of that , what I want . But it comes with such a negative , because if people do just want to be and I've never experienced this until I was with Emilia , because there are times where I just want to be a blob we call it blobbing Emilia , and I call it blobbing Emilia and I call it blobbing it's . I'm going to be a blob and I need you to know that I'm not working right now and I'm not trying to do a project , and I don't need to hear about the deck and the ants and I'm not trying to . I just don't care . I need to blob . I'm not going to be productive . Okay , we're

Navigating imposter syndrome and high standards

Speaker 2

not building toward a bigger , better , brighter future Now , for me , that's very rare .

Speaker 2

Usually I'm always trying to build and grow and learn and prove and every now and then we blob . But the point is , I remember being with her and saying that's interesting , she has such higher standards than I do in certain regards , and I felt guilty for the first time and I went oh , that's how people feel around me , whoa . And then I had the other moment of well , it's way better than not having a girlfriend with unbelievable standards . This is what I wanted . I want someone who helps me become better .

Speaker 2

I've become more proactive , I've become kinder , I've become more aware . I've become more aware of everything . Become kinder , I've become more aware . I've become more aware of everything sexism , history , patriarchal . She's helped me grow into a much better man , so much better . It's not even close . And so how do you be that for someone ? A role model , a leader , someone who holds high standards for themselves and others ? In the air , for lack of better phrasing but not have the downside of what a pain in the butt that dude is . We can't just let our hair back right and so how do you be both ?

Speaker 1

I don't think you can . I don't think you can .

Speaker 2

Yeah , that's a tough choice . That's a tough choice because when I used to party , we could lay our hair back , and I think I'm growing out of that old version that used to try to kind of dial it down , so other people were more comfortable . And so which side of imposter syndrome are you on ? And it probably changes based on the category .

Speaker 2

I have felt imposter syndrome at times . It's just in the way you have Kev , but it's very small , and I remember going to the gym with someone who's literally three times as strong as me and I have that moment of I am screwed here . This is , but I love it . I'm so pumped for that because I just get so motivated the next day . I can feel it . I'm so motivated For me , I want that so much and so , but I can see why it would be a pain in the butt . So anyways , not making it about Kevin or I , but this imposter syndrome thing , I think it goes both ways and I think you either have to dial up or down . And what if you just own your own frequency in each environment and then see how that goes , and then maybe you'll see the contrast and either grow or decide this isn't aligned .

Speaker 1

Yeah , this episode was definitely deeper than I . Number one , deeper than I expected . Number two you added more value than I think you probably expected to add , which is also pretty cool . I didn't think I had anything . Man , honestly , I've started pretty much every episode 1713 times thinking that it's like I have a story and we're going to see what happens . So I have a story and we're going to see what happens . So I don't know , it's definitely deeper than I thought .

Speaker 1

I think imposter syndrome probably does go both ways and it's probably . It probably goes more than just two , probably all over the place , if you , if you have a relationship , I had this very quickly and then we'll go because I this is a longer episode , but I was at jujitsu recently and it was me and there was a black belt and a purple belt and I was rolling with both of them and we were kind of doing a triangle and I finished rolling with the black belt . He said hey , man , can you teach me what you were doing when I couldn't break through your guard ? And I had this moment where it was like I can't teach you anything . No , no , no , no , no . This is going to . No , no , no , definitely not . You know you've forgotten more today than I've known in my entire career , my entire training . And then I had a moment where we did it and it was super constructive and it was awesome .

Speaker 1

I think oftentimes the people places , things and ideas you're around dictate whether or not you feel imposter syndrome , because I felt comfortable to share something that I knew it was an intricacy of an understanding . I wasn't teaching him something , but I had that . I was in a way , but I had a lot of imposter syndrome in that moment .

Speaker 1

But he helped me not have it For him . He needs that 0.1% improvement . I know .

Speaker 2

I was saying this to one of my clients . She's in book club . I know we got to go . She said , alan , I'm learning things but I'm not learning as much as some of the people . And I said . I know that . I said for you it's 0.1 improvement , for someone else it might be five percent new awareness .

Speaker 2

you and I read the same book , kev I'm gonna maybe learn a 0.1 new information and you'll learn a higher percent , but if I were to watch MMA , I'm going to learn 20% . You're not going to learn a thing because you've been studying it for so long , and so it really depends on your goals too , and we're going to do goals versus growth , so I think that'll be a good segue . Is that the next one ?

Speaker 1

No , the next one is something else . Okay .

Speaker 2

That's the name of the episode something else but that black belt probably learned something definitely

Overcoming imposter syndrome at both ends of the spectrum

Speaker 2

, but not as much as you , definitely not . And that's a philosophical discussion too , because who adds more value in that relationship ? You added value , but you're never going to add as much as him , at least in the context of jujitsu so but .

Speaker 1

But in business or podcasting it would be flipped well , I think , just ultimately the point , that my ultimate goal and what I want to land with that is I had imposter syndrome . Sometimes you having imposter syndrome and pushing through it is actually good , good for the other person . If I didn't and again , please do not take this out of context but if I didn't have imposter syndrome and then push through it and be courageous , that person wouldn't know more about what they know now . So it wasn't even about me in that moment whether or not I wanted to do it . That was best for the room . And again , this is a very micro . Trust me , I get smashed all the time by these people . So it wasn't like I pulled out the whiteboard and said all right , everybody sit around and take a gander at what I'm about to behold upon you it was more mousy kev like oh okay , uh , yeah , we can test that out and see it .

Speaker 1

Was that so funny man ? Maybe sometimes it's a . It's a , it's your responsibility , everybody . Take a seat .

Speaker 2

Take a seat take a seat , I'm gonna . Let me F you up with the truth .

Speaker 1

I know most of you don't know who I am , but take a seat , you're going to learn .

Speaker 2

You're going to learn today .

Speaker 1

Sometimes , maybe it is our responsibility to push through that discomfort because there is something on the other side , for not just us but others , as well , goodness , I had the breakthrough . I'm so sorry , it's too late . I'm going to have to put it in a book .

Speaker 2

What if just holding ? What if the black belt ? In this metaphor , this is a breakthrough . What belt are you ? Do you have a belt ?

Speaker 1

I'm a white belt , the lowest belt you can be .

Speaker 2

They gave you a belt . That's good .

Speaker 1

Is that ?

Speaker 2

a thing they actually give you . You actually have one .

Speaker 1

I have a white belt . Yeah , it's some . I could literally it's outside . But yeah , okay , good for you Nice .

Speaker 2

Sorry , I didn't mean to be condescending . All right , so you're a beginner , whatever Awesome , and he's an expert , just for this metaphor . Yes , grandmaster , or whatever , okay , his greatness , holding the contrast between you and him with humility is actually uncomfortable . What ?

Speaker 1

if that's his imposter syndrome .

Speaker 2

That's definitely possible . I just had that moment of that's the opposite of imposter syndrome . Imposter syndrome the way people traditionally know it is I'm so far behind I feel like an imposter , whereas for someone who's so far ahead , owning that they're far ahead might be the uncomfortable thing . Because when you said you have to overcome the discomfort in order to add value to the room add value to the room that clicked of whoa me . Owning when I am ahead is harder for me than being behind . Being behind I'm comfortable with . I love being a student . I'm trying to be a student all the time . I ask you questions all the time .

Speaker 1

Dangerous .

Speaker 2

What's more scary is holding the teacher role or the black belt in this analogy , this metaphor , yeah , so overcoming imposter syndrome on both ends of the spectrum is good for everybody .

Speaker 1

I don't know if what you said made a single word of sense , because I wasn't really listening . No , I'm just kidding . No , I think that's fair . I asked him in the locker room . I said , hey , was it weird ? What's the difference internally between you being a black belt and a brown belt ? Did anything shift for you ? And I don't remember the exact answer , but it was something along the lines of no , not really . I mean , if anything , I want to make sure that I'm doing things more right . Nothing changed other than the fact that I just want to make sure I uphold my standards higher .

Speaker 2

Nice , so it was like that's a really good answer and we talked about standards in this episode , so that's , that makes sense cool , cool people . Jiu-jitsu is an interesting , a very interesting community , so shout out to my client who's getting her black belt in judo , nice , uh , this weekend judo , strong work judo is judo .

Speaker 1

Judo is a reckless sport .

Speaker 2

Maybe I'm doing it . Maybe I'm saying it . One of my clients is getting her black belt this weekend .

Speaker 1

I know that Judo's a thing . Judo's a thing . Yeah , yeah , it's probably judo Cool . Judo is where you hip toss people . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2

So there's 42 throws . She has to get eight of them randomly picked and then you can get two of the eight not perfect or whatever in order to get .

Speaker 1

Judo is a day you mess with someone and the next thing you know your legs are up over your head and you're flying through the air . You have no idea how you got there . That's judo .

Speaker 2

Cool .

Speaker 1

It's good stuff , all right . Alan and I had a breakthrough . We've gone on a bunch of podcasts . So Alan's going on a lot of podcasts now . I've been going on a lot of podcasts for a couple of years now . But what we're realizing is when we go on shows , oftentimes those amazing hosts end up community members at NLU . If you are a community member of NLU and you have a podcast and you're looking for guests , alan and I would love to come on , whether you have one episode or a million episodes , whether you have one person listening or a hundred thousand people listening , we would love to . We love adding value , we love podcasting and if you're in the community , anything we can do to serve is more than aligned . So I just want to throw that out there , because I know I went on a show recently and the person said I kind of have imposter syndrome interviewing you because you have a quote , unquote successful podcast and all that . And I said , trust me , you're better than I was where you are today when I was there Did you have imposter syndrome .

Speaker 2

when he said that no , oh .

Speaker 1

Because I'm the man . No , no , because the truth . I mean , yeah , we are quote unquote ahead , but that doesn't mean anybody should put themselves down because of that , just like I shouldn't put myself above them . We're still . We're going to have a great conversation and I'm grateful that you care enough to listen to our podcast and I'm grateful , but you weren't uncomfortable holding that , holding that Nope . Yeah .

Speaker 2

Okay .

Speaker 1

I think that's humility . Humility is saying thank you so much for the compliment . I've worked very diligently over the last seven years to be the best I can , but I'm not . That doesn't mean you should be nervous . That doesn't mean you should be nervous at all . It doesn't mean you should feel like an imposter . But again , it's not my place to . Yeah , that person's got to do the journey . They've got to figure out what works for them . That's the interesting piece of it . Tomorrow excuse me , tomorrow for episode number 1,714 . It's going to be another very hyper-conscious episode . We only know one version of other people . I'm not even going to tease it . That's all I'm going to say , because I don't know how to tease it without giving away everything we're going to talk about . As always , we we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you , and at nlu we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow stay in your true self .

Speaker 2

Next level nation .

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Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host