Next Level University

#1713 - 1 Way To Work Through Imposter Syndrome

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Imposter syndrome is a familiar foe for many of us, manifesting as a persistent fear of being exposed as a “fraud,” even when we’re well-qualified and competent. In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros present an unconventional approach: transforming imposter syndrome from a source of self-doubt into a catalyst for genuine growth.

Links mentioned:
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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:09) The two R’s
(6:12) Pointing to the right direction
(9:35) Beyond current capabilities and struggle with belonging
(15:51) Authenticity frequency
(20:10) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/f1FWAQA
(22:24) Humility and self-acknowledgment
(25:18) Navigating imposter syndrome and high standards
(30:31) Overcoming imposter syndrome at both ends of the spectrum
(38:41) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode, episode number 1712, it was Freestyle Friday. We talked about an easy relationship mistake. Today, for episode number 1713, one way to work through imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1

I wanted to do this episode because that has been one of the most common questions I've been getting on other podcasts is how do you deal with imposter syndrome? How do you work through imposter syndrome? How do you overcome imposter syndrome? We did an episode months and months and months ago where I talked about how I don't think there is anything resembling overcoming imposter syndrome. I think you make friends with imposter syndrome Now more than ever.

Speaker 1

I believe imposter syndrome is a really good suggestion that you're growing and you are currently pushing the outer bounds of what you're capable of. So if you I don't know if you just got a new job and now you're leading people for the first time and you've never led people before, maybe that gives you imposter syndrome because you're thinking to yourself who am I to lead these human beings? Okay, next time when you get a raise or you get a promotion or you move to a new company or whatever it is, maybe instead of leading five people, you lead 15 people. You might have the same thing happen Well, I've led five people, but 15 is three times that. Who am I to lead 15 people? And eventually you're doing 100 people and then maybe it's 200 people. You're probably going to have that conversation with yourself each time, at least.

Speaker 2

I have.

The two R's

Speaker 1

That's been my experience. So I'll get right to the point, because I don't like a lot of fluff when it comes to content. This is what's worked best for me. Anytime I get imposter syndrome, anytime I have that feeling of I'm not good enough to do this. Who am I to do this? What if I get found out? What if I know less than I know? What if this person knows that I don't know what I'm talking about, even though I do? I have the two R's.

Speaker 1

I have recent proof and relevant proof, recent and relevant proof. I'm sure I've said this on this podcast before, but I went on a podcast one time and the host was a doctor for NASA. This person was a space doctor. Remember me talking about that, mm-hmm. And I had a moment in the green room when I was backstage, virtually when we were getting ready to chat, where I thought to myself there is no way I'm supposed to be on this show. There must be another Kevin Palmieri, I don't. Maybe they, I don't know, maybe they think I'm a rocket scientist or something, maybe something happened. I don't know, there's no way I'm supposed to be on the show, but I had this. I literally sat there and thought about this. I said, well, what's the most recent and relevant proof against what my current beliefs are? And I thought, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

I went on a podcast a couple of weeks ago. It was somebody that was a doctor of psychology. It was hosted by them and we had a wonderful conversation and I had the same fear before I went on that show. I don't belong on this show. I didn't even go to school and this person's a doctor of psychology and I talk a lot about psychology and self-worth and self-belief and self-awareness and all this stuff about psychology and self-worth and self-belief and self-awareness and all this stuff. But I'm not studied like this person is. Who am I to be on this show? It went really, really, really well.

Speaker 1

So, taking an example from an episode that we used recently, imagine everything you've done. Every time you have done something in the category of what you're about to do, you had a new piece of paper. So I went on one podcast that I didn't think I was really capable of doing. All right, that's a piece of paper in my belief book. Then I did it again, then I did it again, then I did it again. If you looked back on all of those pieces of paper. You would have a book of proof that proves to you that you're probably more capable than you believe you are. You could use a coin in a jar. When I was growing up I remember I had a. I didn't have a piggy bank, alan. I had a tall. It was a plastic beer. It was I don't even know. It was three feet tall. It was a Heineken bottle.

Speaker 2

I remember those. Yeah, you got it at uh spencer gifts right, I have no idea.

Speaker 1

My mom, I think my mom had it. I think my mom gave it to me, oh, but it was uh remember spencer gifts of course way back yeah, that was.

Speaker 2

I learned a lot about sex from spencer, gifts yeah, there's a section in spencer gifts that kids aren't allowed to go in but nobody stops you from going there.

Speaker 1

Yeah, don't go in that corner over there.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and then what do?

Speaker 1

we do? I won't. I won't at all. I think of how I poured that bad Larry out one day and there was so much change in there. But that's because how much was it? $150? I don't remember. This was years ago. We're talking like years and years and years and years, decades ago, but it's the same thing. You might think that the small things you're doing don't add up until you look at the large accumulation of those things, and that's worked really, really well for me.

Pointing to the right direction

Speaker 1

When it comes to imposter syndrome, I don't know if it'll ever go away. I don't think I want it to go away, because if it goes away, is that a suggestion that I'm not growing anymore? Maybe I just have tried to make friends with the fact that that's going to happen. Occasionally it's almost like I don't know. It's almost like getting seasick. You know it's going to happen, so you do the things necessary to make sure that it doesn't wreck the trip, being afraid of flying. There are certain things you can do to make it better for you. Maybe it's a meditation, maybe you take medication before you go. Whatever it is that can be helpful. So I'm thinking of this as a practice more than something that's going to create an end. When I say work through imposter syndrome, I'm not saying you're not going to have it. I'm saying when you get it. If you look at the most recent and relevant proof, it is hyperlogical and hopefully it'll give you something to point to towards proof that you're more capable than you think.

Speaker 2

Two things I want to share. The first one is this week has stretched me a lot. Kev's going to Scotland, I'm going on a road trip to South Carolina and we've done 21 episodes of Next Level University in a row this week and I'm shooting for 30 podcasts in a single week as of right now, and I'm close to the 30 mark. Right now I think I'm five off, so I think I'm at 25 for the week. So I'm sorry if I'm cooked, I'm just gonna pour whatever's left in the glass like give it. Give us what you got, i'm'm going to give it. Hell, okay. So what do I have to pour? About imposter syndrome? I told Kev before this episode. I said I don't know if I have a lot to add here he said I got nothing for you.

Speaker 1

I got nothing for you, brother.

Speaker 2

I don't have much. Yeah, I don't feel like. And I was wondering to myself what's the opposite? Because I remember one time we were at a Father's Day barbecue and I said for me it's harder to be in this environment than it is for me to be in a personal growth environment. So we interviewed someone named Stephen Cotter way back, and he wrote a book called the Art of Impossible and he has been studying neuroscience and the biochemistry of greatness for lack of better phrasing for decades and we, when we did that interview, I felt at home. I felt like this is, this is not only a conversation I adore, but I, I really get this stuff. I've been studying this stuff for years. This is who I am, is what I am. This is peak performance, is my jam and, kev, you had imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1

Definitely.

Speaker 2

And it wasn't long after that where we went fishing on Father's Day where I grew up small lake, big pond and we were at sort of a Father's Day barbecue with one of my neighbors that I grew up with and I ended up telling Kev that it's actually harder for me to fit in here than it is for me to fit in with Stephen Collar, and you said that the opposite was true for you. So I was wondering to myself what's the opposite of imposter syndrome? I feel like I have imposter syndrome when I'm at a barbecue in a way, but it's like it's a different kind, almost like I have to shut parts of myself off, whereas you feel like you have to turn parts of you on.

Speaker 1

Maybe I don't even feel like those parts of me exist. I don't. Yeah, it's not that I have to turn parts on, it's that I'm not. I'm genuinely not enough. My being is not capable of doing what I'm going to do.

Beyond current capabilities and struggle with belonging

Speaker 2

So you and I are leaning into who we are, and I just want to do that here and again. I'm kind of cooked, so I'll just say that up front. When you say you're interviewed by a NASA doctor, a space doctor, I wonder how I would feel in that same situation. I don't think you'd feel anything, and the question becomes is that because I belong there? Is that because I'm delusional? Is that because I have parts of me that resonate with that frequency? I don't know what the truth is. I think this is the framework.

Speaker 2

I think imposter syndrome comes when you are beyond your current capabilities, and I think that if you are beyond your current capabilities, it feels like you have to turn on things that you don't have, whereas when I'm at a wedding or I'm at a barbecue or I'm out and about having small talk, conversations with people at the gym I run into, or whatever, I feel like I have to turn a lot of who I am down because it's not excuse me, maybe relevant or may be relevant, or so if you're out there listening or watching this, you've probably experienced imposter syndrome in the way Kevin's describing it, and I'm wondering who out there might have experienced imposter syndrome on the opposite end, and I wouldn't call it imposter syndrome, but in a way you don't fit in either.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so you didn't feel like you fit in with the nasa doctor. I don't feel like I fit in with some of the people I run into, and I never used to share that publicly, by the way, so this is brand new for me, but I wonder. That's just what I'm contemplating. Okay, so now to flip the script, and this is really my intention for the episode, which is how do we, how do you overcome that? Because in a way, over the seven-year journey, everything's been a little different for you yeah, I don't know different you.

Speaker 2

You always used to say things like this is a lot harder for me than it is for you, and I didn't know what you were talking about back then. What were you talking about?

Speaker 1

well, firstly, firstly, first off, firstly, whatever the correct saying is, I wonder if it's just a lack of belonging. I, if I was my true, authentic self, I would not belong here and I would not be fully welcomed here. Cause it's almost like on your end, you just opt out of trying to be something you're not, but then you risk the potential that nobody's going to resonate with you. You know, maybe you go to dinner and people are having small talk or whatever. Whatever it is that you don't resonate with, you, just don't play that game and then potentially deal with the, the consequences, whatever they may be.

Speaker 2

I think I thought everyone was doing that, for example. So in college I used to I always talk about how I would always try to fit in when you said that you're more you at a barbecue. I don't know if I get it, because I think I thought everyone was fitting in and we all are to some extent right. I think it's easier.

Speaker 1

It's easier to be me because I can just be. I can just be. I don't have to turn anything on or off. I'm just me. That's me. I also don't know. I think I'm a really good chameleon and I don't have a negative association with that. I'm not somebody who was forced to be a certain way. I don't have that experience. I'm not someone who always had to turn it down. I'm not someone who always had to turn it down. I'm not someone who always had to turn it up. I, for most of my life, just tried to be me. Do you feel like?

Speaker 2

but it's weird because you, you don't feel like you fit in. You always thought you were weird. You didn't know normal growing up, that kind of thing, so it's just weird. It's, yeah, you fit in and you feel like it's easy to fit in and you feel super relatable, but yet you're completely different than everybody else in these other weird ways of being a fighter and wanting to be a rapper and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2

So, again, we're learning ourselves. But I did say this to someone recently who was it? One of my clients, one of my younger clients. He's like, well, I don't want to be alone and I said, statistically, you are, and I'm not trying to be mean about it, you just are very different. There is an objective. What's a good example of this? Let's say that you, let's say that you.

Speaker 2

What's a good example of this? Let's say you can dunk a basketball when you're 14 years old. Statistically you're alone. There's not a lot of people who can relate to that. Now imagine you're the kid who gets straight A's and everything comes easy to you. Statistically you are alone. So you have to manufacture belonging in a way just to survive. Good, will Hunting is a good example of this. I love that movie because that movie is such a good character study of the human condition.

Speaker 2

Will Hunting in the movie is a genius and he has to very much. He reads books super fast and he studies constantly when he's alone. But he kind of hides that from his friends and this MIT professor finds him and he solves math equations on the board as a janitor when no one's watching. And then they hunt him down and find out that it was him who did it and it's this whole thing. But the point is he is a statistical anomaly and so his fear he was in foster care and his fear in the movie is to be alone. And statistically he is alone.

Authenticity frequency

Speaker 2

And there's this one part of the movie that's so powerful. The MIT professor basically says it bothers me so much because there's only five people in the world who can tell the difference between you and me? But I happen to be one of them and I can't watch you throw it all away. And what he's trying to say there is that you're different and you know it and you always have been and you always will be. But what the professor doesn't understand in the movie is that he doesn't want to be different. He wants to fit in and be normal or relatable or loved. And so it's this weird duality of imposter syndrome you either feel like an imposter socially or you feel like an imposter competence-wise. I think I've always felt like an imposter socially.

Speaker 1

I never felt like an imposter.

Speaker 2

I don't feel like I would feel imposter syndrome at all with the NASA doctor and I know how arrogant that will come off. I really do. I feel like I would fit in great.

Speaker 1

Well, I think the truth of the matter is, if you wanted to, you could have been a doctor at NASA. I think that's a piece of it.

Speaker 2

I do believe that's true.

Speaker 1

I don't get it. When we interviewed Kenny Florian, I didn't have imposter syndrome of this is a person who was a professional fighter and that it wasn't. That it was like not peers. Trust me, it's not that I don't know, it's more well, maybe I could have got there, but you could just be.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but I think I could be. I could just be based on the fact that me I'm an MMA fan, just like with Justin Freeman, one of my favorite interviews ever. I could just be because I'm a rap fan, just like with Justin Freeman, one of my favorite interviews ever. I could just be because I'm a rap fan. I'm genuinely. That is who I am. That's my frequency, stephen Kotler. I can't just be, and I did. I ended up saying I'm just going to be the funny guy in this interview because I can tell I'm in over my head here.

Speaker 2

Yeah, in that one I could just be be, that was just a conversation for me yeah.

Speaker 1

So I think that's all it is is. It's just a, it's a frequency. How, how much of your authentic truth can you be, can you show without being looked at differently? So Alan is the chief financial officer, chief finance officer of NLU, and he'll message me stuff like hey, do you, are you using this? Do we need this? Oh, no, no, that's like 50 bucks a month. We don't need that. Let's can that. And you and I had a conversation today which I don't think you mind me sharing. He'll, alan, will message me and say hey, man, time for me to be a pain in the butt. Are you, are you, do you still use Netflix, or should we cancel that? And I said, brother, stop saying it's time for me to for me to be a pain in the butt. I know what you're doing, you're fine, you're good, just be you.

Speaker 2

That's what you're supposed to be In the beginning, though could I have done that?

Speaker 1

This is where we get real raw on the NLU it. Yeah, yeah, but we weren't there yet. I know we weren't there. What if you weren't?

Speaker 2

well developed enough to handle that in a way possible I wasn't so but maybe, but maybe I wasn't courageous enough to be fully me, which also is a self-fulfilling prophecy if I'm not fully me, well, the truth is.

Speaker 1

That would mean neither of us were developed enough. Agreed, that's a great. You would just be developed in a different direction, way. Yeah, yeah exactly so.

Speaker 2

The social courage, competence, courage thing is what keeps coming up. I think it's really scary to be me, fully me, at a backyard barbecue. So I kind of just have to turn down like when we go to. I love the NLHF, the Next Level Hope Foundation. We do a Father's Day event. We're doing one on the 15th of June it's the Saturday before Father's Day and shout out to Amy Amy and I were just planning it and there's a whole checklist and all this stuff. I love that event, but I can't be fully me in that event because, right, no one wants to talk about quantum physics for funsies and so I kind of just have to just have fun and go back into that, that mode of me that loves sports and and is competitive and stuff. But even even with that I have to dial that down quite a bit too. It's like my competitive nature. A lot of that is dialed down. It's the intense energy that you were talking about recently on an episode. And again I'm just contemplating all this.

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy.

Speaker 2

But what is the opposite of imposter syndrome? The opposite of imposter syndrome is I would go to a concert in the past and I would have that moment of I don't belong here. I don't want to be here. I'm not supposed to be here. It's that.

Speaker 2

And I always looked around. I remember having lonely moments looking around, going why am I the only one who doesn't seem to be having a blast? And I think in I checked in with myself. My calling is different than this, I'm not supposed to be here. And other people would say that the other way of I got farther than I thought I'd get or or whatever. So again, there's two sides to the coin and I think we should focus more on the original imposter syndrome versus the belonging social one. But if you feel imposter syndrome when you're in a certain group of friends, that's a sign. And then the question becomes do you feel like an imposter because you're too much or because you're too little? Too little, maybe that's a good thing, maybe you'll grow. I think you've got to get outside your comfort zone and be around people that have bigger, better, brighter futures. Go ahead.

Speaker 1

You and I have an acquaintance have bigger, better, brighter futures, go ahead. You and I have an acquaintance and I told you at one point I said that person's not for me. They're just not for me. They're just not my type of person. They're a little bit arrogant. They're a little bit arrogant, not my type of person. I don't want to fit in with them. I have no desire to fit in with them.

Speaker 2

I have no desire to fit in with them.

Speaker 1

Zero, zero, because I would completely have to abandon who I am. But why would you want to fit in with me? Because you're the. The parts of you that I am not yet are not negative ones. The reason I'm not more like you is not necessarily because I don't aspire to be, it's just because it's hard. It's more about it's more about learning and evolving and growing than it is being more arrogant or being better at telling dirty jokes or being better at disrespecting people. That it's not the same. It's not the same.

Humility and self-acknowledgment

Speaker 1

I think there are people to aspire to be around, because, you know, I think you make me better, I think you make me a better man. For sure, 100%, 100%, nice. And yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's so much for me to. I said this today on a podcast. I said if you don't think I have a boss because I'm an entrepreneur, you are wrong. I do have a boss. For sure, alan is my boss and Alan is my coach and Alan is the leader. But that's awesome.

Speaker 1

I'm way better off than I would be if I was running this ship. We would have crashed into several icebergs by now. There's no chance. There's no chance. There's no chance. Are you a pain in the butt at times. Yes, just like I'm a pain in the butt to you at times, I just think you and I are real enough to say well, I think I'd be better off with this pain in the butt than I would be without it. Oh for sure, 100%. And at times it's almost like maybe this is what's happening. I'm getting you back a little bit for all the times that I had imposter syndrome on episodes because we had guests on. Now, since I choose most of the episodes, it's like ah, maybe this will be a little uncomfortable for Alan, but I think it's good for him. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Maybe that's what's happening. I know we got to jump. I had a conversation with Amy earlier and I don't know if she heard the episode or not yet because we're so far ahead. One of the cool things about leading the NLU team is they all listen to the show. Not all of them. Most of them listen to the show and it's not a requirement or anything, but it's encouraged. We try to eat our own cooking at NLU Kevin and I included, by the way, but I was on with Amy and it was interesting because we're 14, or however many, ahead and normally I can have conversations with her about what we're going through and growing through, and she's already privy to that information because she already heard the episode, because she's diehard every single day. I know you. Thank you, aim.

Navigating imposter syndrome and high standards

Speaker 2

We did an episode where you talked about energy, intense energy and and my energy. She said I asked her perspective on it. I said what do you? What is your experience? I genuinely want to know. Don't, don't inflate my ego, don't, don't go docile, don't tell me anything above or below the truth. I just want objective truth. What is it actually like? And she said it's just an energy of ridiculously high standards. And what she said is it's when you're around you you can't just be, you have. There's a standard, there's just a standard in the air. That's the best way she described it. There's a standard in the air. It's we're not here to have fun, we're not here to mess around, we're here to do something meaningful. That's the way she described it. I thought that was kind of cool and I had this moment of that, what I want. But it comes with such a negative, because if people do just want to be and I've never experienced this until I was with Emilia, because there are times where I just want to be a blob we call it blobbing Emilia, and I call it blobbing Emilia and I call it blobbing it's. I'm going to be a blob and I need you to know that I'm not working right now and I'm not trying to do a project, and I don't need to hear about the deck and the ants and I'm not trying to. I just don't care. I need to blob. I'm not going to be productive. Okay, we're not building toward a bigger, better, brighter future Now, for me, that's very rare.

Speaker 2

Usually I'm always trying to build and grow and learn and prove and every now and then we blob. But the point is, I remember being with her and saying that's interesting, she has such higher standards than I do in certain regards, and I felt guilty for the first time and I went oh, that's how people feel around me, whoa. And then I had the other moment of well, it's way better than not having a girlfriend with unbelievable standards. This is what I wanted. I want someone who helps me become better.

Speaker 2

I've become more proactive, I've become kinder, I've become more aware. I've become more aware of everything. Become kinder, I've become more aware. I've become more aware of everything sexism, history, patriarchal. She's helped me grow into a much better man, so much better. It's not even close. And so how do you be that for someone? A role model, a leader, someone who holds high standards for themselves and others? In the air, for lack of better phrasing but not have the downside of what a pain in the butt that dude is. We can't just let our hair back right and so how do you be both?

Speaker 1

I don't think you can. I don't think you can.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's a tough choice. That's a tough choice because when I used to party, we could lay our hair back, and I think I'm growing out of that old version that used to try to kind of dial it down, so other people were more comfortable. And so which side of imposter syndrome are you on? And it probably changes based on the category.

Speaker 2

I have felt imposter syndrome at times. It's just in the way you have Kev, but it's very small, and I remember going to the gym with someone who's literally three times as strong as me and I have that moment of I am screwed here. This is, but I love it. I'm so pumped for that because I just get so motivated the next day. I can feel it. I'm so motivated For me, I want that so much and so, but I can see why it would be a pain in the butt. So anyways, not making it about Kevin or I, but this imposter syndrome thing, I think it goes both ways and I think you either have to dial up or down. And what if you just own your own frequency in each environment and then see how that goes, and then maybe you'll see the contrast and either grow or decide this isn't aligned.

Speaker 1

Yeah, this episode was definitely deeper than I. Number one, deeper than I expected. Number two you added more value than I think you probably expected to add, which is also pretty cool. I didn't think I had anything. Man, honestly, I've started pretty much every episode 1713 times thinking that it's like I have a story and we're going to see what happens. So I have a story and we're going to see what happens. So I don't know, it's definitely deeper than I thought.

Speaker 1

I think imposter syndrome probably does go both ways and it's probably. It probably goes more than just two, probably all over the place, if you, if you have a relationship, I had this very quickly and then we'll go because I this is a longer episode, but I was at jujitsu recently and it was me and there was a black belt and a purple belt and I was rolling with both of them and we were kind of doing a triangle and I finished rolling with the black belt. He said hey, man, can you teach me what you were doing when I couldn't break through your guard? And I had this moment where it was like I can't teach you anything. No, no, no, no, no. This is going to. No, no, no, definitely not. You know you've forgotten more today than I've known in my entire career, my entire training. And then I had a moment where we did it and it was super constructive and it was awesome.

Speaker 1

I think oftentimes the people places, things and ideas you're around dictate whether or not you feel imposter syndrome, because I felt comfortable to share something that I knew it was an intricacy of an understanding. I wasn't teaching him something, but I had that. I was in a way, but I had a lot of imposter syndrome in that moment.

Speaker 1

But he helped me not have it For him. He needs that 0.1% improvement. I know.

Speaker 2

I was saying this to one of my clients. She's in book club. I know we got to go. She said, alan, I'm learning things but I'm not learning as much as some of the people. And I said. I know that. I said for you it's 0.1 improvement, for someone else it might be five percent new awareness.

Speaker 2

you and I read the same book, kev I'm gonna maybe learn a 0.1 new information and you'll learn a higher percent, but if I were to watch MMA, I'm going to learn 20%. You're not going to learn a thing because you've been studying it for so long, and so it really depends on your goals too, and we're going to do goals versus growth, so I think that'll be a good segue. Is that the next one?

Speaker 1

No, the next one is something else. Okay.

Overcoming imposter syndrome at both ends of the spectrum

Speaker 2

That's the name of the episode something else but that black belt probably learned something definitely, but not as much as you, definitely not. And that's a philosophical discussion too, because who adds more value in that relationship? You added value, but you're never going to add as much as him, at least in the context of jujitsu so but.

Speaker 1

But in business or podcasting it would be flipped well, I think, just ultimately the point, that my ultimate goal and what I want to land with that is I had imposter syndrome. Sometimes you having imposter syndrome and pushing through it is actually good, good for the other person. If I didn't and again, please do not take this out of context but if I didn't have imposter syndrome and then push through it and be courageous, that person wouldn't know more about what they know now. So it wasn't even about me in that moment whether or not I wanted to do it. That was best for the room. And again, this is a very micro. Trust me, I get smashed all the time by these people. So it wasn't like I pulled out the whiteboard and said all right, everybody sit around and take a gander at what I'm about to behold upon you it was more mousy kev like oh okay, uh, yeah, we can test that out and see it.

Speaker 1

Was that so funny man? Maybe sometimes it's a. It's a, it's your responsibility, everybody. Take a seat.

Speaker 2

Take a seat take a seat, I'm gonna. Let me F you up with the truth.

Speaker 1

I know most of you don't know who I am, but take a seat, you're going to learn.

Speaker 2

You're going to learn today.

Speaker 1

Sometimes, maybe it is our responsibility to push through that discomfort because there is something on the other side, for not just us but others, as well, goodness, I had the breakthrough. I'm so sorry, it's too late. I'm going to have to put it in a book.

Speaker 2

What if just holding? What if the black belt? In this metaphor, this is a breakthrough. What belt are you? Do you have a belt?

Speaker 1

I'm a white belt, the lowest belt you can be.

Speaker 2

They gave you a belt. That's good.

Speaker 1

Is that?

Speaker 2

a thing they actually give you. You actually have one.

Speaker 1

I have a white belt. Yeah, it's some. I could literally it's outside. But yeah, okay, good for you Nice.

Speaker 2

Sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending. All right, so you're a beginner, whatever Awesome, and he's an expert, just for this metaphor. Yes, grandmaster, or whatever, okay, his greatness, holding the contrast between you and him with humility is actually uncomfortable. What?

Speaker 1

if that's his imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2

That's definitely possible. I just had that moment of that's the opposite of imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome the way people traditionally know it is I'm so far behind I feel like an imposter, whereas for someone who's so far ahead, owning that they're far ahead might be the uncomfortable thing. Because when you said you have to overcome the discomfort in order to add value to the room add value to the room that clicked of whoa me. Owning when I am ahead is harder for me than being behind. Being behind I'm comfortable with. I love being a student. I'm trying to be a student all the time. I ask you questions all the time.

Speaker 1

Dangerous.

Speaker 2

What's more scary is holding the teacher role or the black belt in this analogy, this metaphor, yeah, so overcoming imposter syndrome on both ends of the spectrum is good for everybody.

Speaker 1

I don't know if what you said made a single word of sense, because I wasn't really listening. No, I'm just kidding. No, I think that's fair. I asked him in the locker room. I said, hey, was it weird? What's the difference internally between you being a black belt and a brown belt? Did anything shift for you? And I don't remember the exact answer, but it was something along the lines of no, not really. I mean, if anything, I want to make sure that I'm doing things more right. Nothing changed other than the fact that I just want to make sure I uphold my standards higher.

Speaker 2

Nice, so it was like that's a really good answer and we talked about standards in this episode, so that's, that makes sense cool, cool people. Jiu-jitsu is an interesting, a very interesting community, so shout out to my client who's getting her black belt in judo, nice, uh, this weekend judo, strong work judo is judo.

Speaker 1

Judo is a reckless sport.

Speaker 2

Maybe I'm doing it. Maybe I'm saying it. One of my clients is getting her black belt this weekend.

Speaker 1

I know that Judo's a thing. Judo's a thing. Yeah, yeah, it's probably judo Cool. Judo is where you hip toss people. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

So there's 42 throws. She has to get eight of them randomly picked and then you can get two of the eight not perfect or whatever in order to get.

Speaker 1

Judo is a day you mess with someone and the next thing you know your legs are up over your head and you're flying through the air. You have no idea how you got there. That's judo.

Speaker 2

Cool.

Speaker 1

It's good stuff, all right. Alan and I had a breakthrough. We've gone on a bunch of podcasts. So Alan's going on a lot of podcasts now. I've been going on a lot of podcasts for a couple of years now. But what we're realizing is when we go on shows, oftentimes those amazing hosts end up community members at NLU. If you are a community member of NLU and you have a podcast and you're looking for guests, alan and I would love to come on, whether you have one episode or a million episodes, whether you have one person listening or a hundred thousand people listening, we would love to. We love adding value, we love podcasting and if you're in the community, anything we can do to serve is more than aligned. So I just want to throw that out there, because I know I went on a show recently and the person said I kind of have imposter syndrome interviewing you because you have a quote, unquote successful podcast and all that. And I said, trust me, you're better than I was where you are today when I was there Did you have imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2

when he said that no, oh.

Speaker 1

Because I'm the man. No, no, because the truth. I mean, yeah, we are quote unquote ahead, but that doesn't mean anybody should put themselves down because of that, just like I shouldn't put myself above them. We're still. We're going to have a great conversation and I'm grateful that you care enough to listen to our podcast and I'm grateful, but you weren't uncomfortable holding that, holding that Nope. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

I think that's humility. Humility is saying thank you so much for the compliment. I've worked very diligently over the last seven years to be the best I can, but I'm not. That doesn't mean you should be nervous. That doesn't mean you should be nervous at all. It doesn't mean you should feel like an imposter. But again, it's not my place to. Yeah, that person's got to do the journey. They've got to figure out what works for them. That's the interesting piece of it. Tomorrow excuse me, tomorrow for episode number 1,714. It's going to be another very hyper-conscious episode. We only know one version of other people. I'm not even going to tease it. That's all I'm going to say, because I don't know how to tease it without giving away everything we're going to talk about. As always, we we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at nlu we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow stay in your true self.

Speaker 2

Next level nation.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host