#1721 - The Antidote To Arrogance

Is arrogance just a mask for vulnerability? In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros peel back the layers of arrogance to reveal their authentic roots in insecurity and fear. Together, they explore this topic, showing that behaviors we often label as arrogant can sometimes stem from a fear of rejection or a reluctance to appear weak, transforming how we perceive and respond to seemingly entitled actions.

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Show notes:
(2:54) Seeing the source of arrogance
(6:19) Trauma responses: Puff up or go docile
(9:13) Explanation not an excuse
(11:59) At NLU, we want you to win, so we’re providing tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/monthly-meetups/
(12:42) Emotional adaptability
(16:25) Working on emotional immaturity
(20:20) Practice vulnerability
(22:29) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin 0:00

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next. No, sorry, I didn't hit record on video. That's my bad. I caught it though I caught it Doesn't count. Mistakes don't count if you only half bake them All right, here we go.

Alan 0:12

Production team ignore all of that. Audio and video won't match Okay.

Kevin 0:17

Here we go. Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your will. We hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode, episode number 1720,. What's the Purpose of your Deepest Pain? Today, for episode number 1721, the Antidote to Arrogance. So just a quick disclaimer this is going to be a very quick episode. Probably 15 minutes is what we're aiming for. So if we talk a little bit faster than usual, we'll try not to, but just a heads up that this will be a shorter episode.

Alan 0:53

I don't intend on talking any faster than I normally do.

Kevin 0:59

Well played, sir, well played. Thank you, you're very welcome. It's been a week. It's very warm in my office, so I am delusional. I just had myself a diet Sprite.

Alan 1:09

Oh nice, yeah, big fan. Not as good as the good stuff, though.

Kevin 1:12

Honestly.

Alan 1:13

I don't know. Full Cal Sprite is the way.

Kevin 1:15

You know what I realized in Scotland Full Cal soda is way less calories. I think it was like 35 calories for a can of soda.

Alan 1:26

Why?

Kevin 1:26

Because they don't make it like we do Makes no sense. It felt guilt free when I was drinking it.

Kevin 1:29

They call it pop. What do they call it? They call it oh, my goodness. No, it was something else. I don't remember. We're wasting our 15 minutes here. I don't remember what. What it was All right. This is why I wanted to do this episode, because it's been a long time since we've talked about and we talk about vulnerability and ego and arrogance all the time. But I think I have a really good example of something that you might think to yourself that person's arrogant, when in reality, they're really, really struggling with being vulnerable. I don't think they're intending on being arrogant. I think they're so afraid to look weak in a second that they just overdo it.

Kevin 2:16

Used to have a friend and this friend would come over and this was the conversation. We'd be playing video games, hanging out. He'd be meandering towards the kitchen and he'd say hey, brother, I'm going to have a couple of pup tarts. And I remember thinking like sure, man, you can have some pup tarts. Not that you're asking, you're telling me you're going to have several of my Pop-Tarts. Cool, I'll give you the shirt off my back, I don't care.

Seeing the source of arrogance

Kevin 2:47

But that became a pattern where it was like hey man, I'm going to have a beer. Hey man, I'm going to have this, I'm going to have this, I'm going to have this, I'm going to have this. It got wash his clothes in my washer and then dry them in my dryer. Never asked, Just brought them. Then it got to the point where he would. He started to like leave his towels on the floor after he showered and stuff and then leave his plates around, and then it became an issue. It was like this is an issue. After reflecting on that, do you know why? He said hey, brother, I'm going to grab a pup tart? Because he was afraid to say hey, man, do you mind if I have one of your pup tarts? And he was afraid for me to say no. That's why. It wasn't because he was trying to be a dick. It wasn't because he was trying to overpower me. It was because he was so afraid to be vulnerable that it was easier for him just to hide behind what seemed like arrogance.

Kevin 3:45

And that's really again. There's the. Wouldn't you call that entitlement more than arrogance? I think that's what arrogance is. I think it's all the same flavor, but I just think it's like okay, what's the opposite of arrogance? Humility. What's the opposite of entitlement? Sorry. What's the opposite of arrogance? Vulnerability. What's the opposite of entitlement, sorry. What's the opposite of arrogance? Vulnerability. What's the opposite of entitlement?

Alan 4:06

Humility. I think the opposite of entitlement is gratitude Fair Doesn't really work into my, doesn't really work into the concept I'm trying to create here.

Kevin 4:18

So I'm gonna have to disagree with you strongly, but that's my goal in today's episode episode is I don't know, can you see that when, when someone is being arrogant, are you able to see where it's actually coming from? Just because not, there are some people that are arrogant. I would say, like I've met some people who they're just arrogant, but I've also met some people who I've had really powerful conversations with, and then you see them in a certain light, in a certain situation where they are arrogant and it's not because they want to be arrogant, it's because it's a coping mechanism for something else. It's a safety. It's a safety thing. Are you able to figure out what they're trying to find safety from? It's my goal in today's episode nice.

Alan 5:04

Well, it's always an overcorrection ego, arrogance, it's the puffer fish and the turtle. The turtle runs away or hides or shrinks. The puffer fish puffs up because it's so afraid, it's not strong, and the puffer fish only puffs up when there's a predator. Yeah, and I think that a lot of times, people who puff up around you and seem really arrogant or entitled or toxic, they are actually just really insecure. Whenever you poke a topic that someone is like a soft spot, you can tell their reaction. They'll either shrink and be a turtle and kind of hide from it or avoid it, or they'll leave the room, or they'll puff up and get angry. And so, yeah, it's just a trauma response and all ego is always a trauma response from insecurity. What's a good example of this?

Alan 6:20

I remember I was watching someone by the lake. Emilia's family has a place on a lake that's absolutely gorgeous in Otis, massachusetts, and I remember I was watching him and he was doing something with the boat and he got really angry at the person who you know how you have to tie the boat to the dock, that whole thing, yes, yeah, and he got like really angry and I realized why he got really triggered and angry, kind of all of a sudden, almost like what the everything's fine, but I realized why. He was shirtless and he's insecure about his physique. What's a good example of this? Everyone's had this moment where they're in a bathing suit and they have just their stomach just overflow. It's just bad angle. It's not a great moment. You can either be very, very docile and humble, and maybe even overly mousy, timid, or you can puff up, and that's the kind of thing. So whenever someone's insecure, they almost always puff up or go docile.

Kevin 7:26

They do something.

Alan 7:27

Yeah, they do something. There's always a response.

Kevin 7:30

I had a buddy of mine. It was always so funny Back in the day. This was years and years ago, but before I could he could drive, before I could drive, so he drove everywhere. I drove to school with him every day. He could drive long before I could drive. And there was always this thing where if he was trying to do something challenging, like back into a spot or anything that made him nervous, I couldn't have a conversation with him because he would just say what, what, what? Because he was so triggered in that moment that he could not pay attention to me. That was like his tell. It was like oh, you're insecure right now based on something that's going on. I got that a little bit with Taryn in Scotland.

Alan 8:10

Yeah, because there was.

Kevin 8:12

This is brutal, oh my God, it was so bad. We went to where was it it was in? Was it Aberdeen, I don't know. We went to Scotland. We went to a town, city, a place in Scotland, and we were trying to go to dinner and we're following the GPS and it's taking us down this one-way thing and I was like, babe, is this a street? And then we saw some Ubers so I was like, okay, this must be a street. And I went by this car and I was super nervous that I was going to hit it and he was honking at me and it was like this is too much.

Explanation not an excuse

Kevin 8:45

I pull out onto a street and the street is closed. This whole entire, this giant downtown center, is shut down. I'm the only car driving through the center of town on a street that's not open. There's people like hanging out in the middle of the street and I was losing my mind. I'm sure I was super insecure. I'm sure I wasn't. I definitely wasn't centered, kev. I was losing my mind. So I think that's just another. This is a really good episode about. It's an explanation, not an excuse. The explanation is I was super triggered, my state was off. I was driving through the center of town on a road that was closed and I think I did something very illegal. And everybody's looking at me. I'm the only car driving because there's no way to get on the street other than this alleyway. The street's shut down, so everybody's looking at me as I drive down the street. Hey guys, how are you?

Alan 9:43

Embarrassment is such a brutal experience. It's brutal. So what do you do in moments like that? Because the trauma responses are fight, flight freeze and fawn. Fight is puff up, flight is run away and avoid. You couldn't run away. You can't puff up because you're going to be mean to Taryn, which is not aligned. You can't fight flight freeze. You can't freeze because you have to perform.

Kevin 10:10

You have to drive. When I was turning onto the street, there was a moment of freeze and look around and say like what's going on here? Yeah, and then fawn would be just appease. Which is it was it was fun.

Alan 10:22

Yeah, so you're just appeasing all the people. Yeah, yeah, I'm not.

Kevin 10:24

I'm sorry, my bad, my bad, it's like when you, when you cut someone off in traffic and they honk at you, okay I cut you off I could very easily stick my finger out the window at you and say, oh screw you. Sometimes I'll literally be like, ah, it's on me. Yep, that's my bad, that's my bad, so I think that's a version of fawning. I think the best way is to laugh away the pain. It's just. It's very hard to do that in real time.

Alan 10:50

Is there a way to recognize the trauma response and then shift into centered energy? That's what I've been working on a lot. I think that's what emotional intelligence really is. Emotional adaptability, I guess, is the proper term. But Emilia and I have never fought, and when she first said we were never going to fight, I remember thinking no way we're going to be together forever. I can't not fight ever Because, truth be told, I'm intense. I like to have healthy discords. I like to learn about what could or couldn't be right. That's like me going into business with you, kevin, saying we're never going to fight. We've had a couple tough moments that I would consider close to fighting. Um, also one of them close to actually fighting physically, physically fighting but, when emilia said that, I remember thinking that seems impossible to me.

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Alan 11:45

And it's actually worked, holy crap, mostly because of her. Now, how? How did that work? Number one she's super emotionally regulated. Number two I've worked really hard on shifting my trauma responses. So whenever I do the fight trauma response of, like you've ever been in an argument with someone where they think they're more accurate than you, you think you're more accurate than them. So it's escalate, escalate, escalate, escalate, and it's just shots fired. We, we call them stingers. Don't throw stingers in your relationship. And every now and then you're like why did I say that? Oh, I'm so sorry, that's.

Emotional adaptability

Alan 12:20

I don't know what I mean, but and it's only funny after, at the time, it's not yeah when you are in that puffer fish energy, you have to go vulnerable, and it's not easy because you're in shame of how you're acting, like a dingus, and so that's vulnerability has been one of the biggest game changers of all time, because there are times where she escalates, I escalate, she escalates. She'll say I think you're escalating. So she'll say things like I don't really like the tone, that, can we just de-escalate? And then, and then I go vulnerable. So that's my trigger to go vulnerable. Yeah, you're okay. And then I take a second. We've never no storming out, no slamming doors, no yelling, ever. It's, it's been unbelievable, genuinely unbelievable, meaning I didn't believe it.

Alan 13:12

Now, will that? Will I have my track record forever? I don't know. Will we have the track record forever? I don't know. Will we have the never fight thing? I don't know.

Alan 13:17

We've been close a few times, okay, but the point of this is the only reason why I can do that is because of emotional adaptability, which is number one recognize what that you're triggered. Number two recognize which trigger. Am I fawning right now, or am I puffing? And then shift into centered energy, which is through vulnerability, which is and this is why it's so hard, because look at how complex this is already. You have to take ownership for your part, or you have to allow and my analogy is volcano you can let the lava leak out via tears, or you can let it explode, which is bad for everyone and destroys the island or the relationship in this metaphor, or you can suppress it, which is what most people do, and and that what does that do? Creates more pressure, and then it explodes later. And and when we're insecure and this is the best analogy I've ever heard, metaphor uponaphor upon metaphor upon metaphor.

Alan 14:14

Wayne Dyer used to say this. He used to say you're never going to get apple juice out of an orange. Why? Because when life squeezes you, you get what's inside. You get out what's inside. And so if you've been harboring resentment and here's the problem a lot of times you don't know you have oh yeah, well, I don't like it when you book, book, book and it's like whoa, how long you been holding onto that. And so a lot of times this stuff builds beneath the surface and then it explodes later. And so how can you be emotionally intelligent enough to really express yourself along the way so that you don't create this massive pressure beneath the surface that eventually just hurts people?

Kevin 14:53

I think that's why asking for help is so important. It's very vulnerable, but it really the lesson I learned from being super stressed out, because I drive everywhere. I love driving. I don't ever want Taryn to drive us anywhere. I love driving, I'm a huge fan of it. Over there I didn't like it as much because it was super stressful. It just got to the point where I said hey, babe, I need you, like I need you. If she was getting ready to drift off, I'd just say I need you, I just need you for a minute. We're going to do something here. I'm not sure how it's going to go. I just kind of need you. I need some support, I just need some moral support. Second pair of eyes Nice.

Alan 15:30

Most men wouldn't do that, because asking for help means you're weak and incompetent.

Kevin 15:34

I was weak and incompetent driving there, so I needed all the assistance I could get.

Alan 15:40

But for the listeners anyone this is such an interesting thing. It's very hard for the male ego I'll speak for men because I am one. It's very hard for the male ego to admit when they suck at something or they need help or they are incompetent. Because when you look incompetent it's you feel weak, you feel less than it's. There's something weird about that. That's why I've coached several men. But it's been harder to coach men because they don't want to lose credibility it.

Working on emotional immaturity

Alan 16:12

I have several men that I coach, but one I'm thinking of I can tell he doesn't want to go too deep. He doesn't want me to find out that he actually is deeply fearful about a lot of stuff. And over time, as we build trust, the vulnerability increases. But it's not like with women. With women they feel safer, typically against statistically. I'm not trying to do the male-female thing here, but With women they feel safer, typically against statistically. I'm not trying to do the male-female thing here, but I do think vulnerability tends to be harder for men, particularly in our culture. It definitely was hard for me. I didn't even learn about vulnerability until I was 29. I remember we did a Small Talks episode and I was like what is that? What does vulnerability mean?

Alan 16:50

again, I've never really thought about it much, it's wild, isn't that wild? Mean again, like I've never really thought about, isn't that wild? It's wild? Yeah, talk about a game changer only six years ago life changing. If you can't own it, hey I need you, dude, not a lot of men would do that. They would just pretend that they're good, we're good, and then something would go wrong yeah, and then they wouldn't take ownership and they'd blame the female dude.

Alan 17:14

That's, that's that crap and that's called emotional immaturity. Uh, I'm actually about to read four books on emotional immaturity. Emilia recommended them yesterday, and when I say four books, I mean over the next several months. I'm not just going to read four books tonight. I texted I, I yeah, tonight I'm going to read four books. No, I texted her them because I wanted to remember Ready. These are the four books. It's a woman named. It doesn't give me the author, hold on.

Kevin 17:43

Less than ideal.

Alan 17:46

Hold on hold on Lindsay Gibson. Many of our listeners will know her. This is the titles Disentangling from Emotionally Immature People. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. This is the titles disentangling from emotionally immature people. Adult children of emotionally immature parents. Self-care for adult children of emotionally immature parents. And recovering from emotionally immature parents. So two guesses what her specialty is, which is emotional immaturity. But Emilia, I didn't know what emotional immaturity I didn't. It wasn't on my radar until we did a relationship talks, event about it. I know we got to jump. I would say the main reason why Emilia and I have not been able to fight. If I could condense it into one thing for our listeners or anyone watching, I've tried to work on my emotional immaturity. I was emotionally immature more than I thought. I don't think necessarily more than most men, but more than I thought. And ever since that got on my radar it's been a different life.

Kevin 18:45

Last thing I'll say, because when I go on other shows I tell my story sitting on the edge of a bed contemplating suicide, having suicidal ideations, not wanting to be here, and I always say I reached out to Alan and people say how did you have the courage, how did you have the courage to ask for help? And I never had a good answer. It's like I don't know. I just I don't know. Alan and I were tight, we were buddies. I trusted Alan, I felt safe. I said you know, to create an umbrella is not when you're stuck out in a thunderstorm, it's when there's no rain. So that would be my lesson for everyone is if you struggle to be vulnerable, practice vulnerability when you don't feel like you need to be, when it's easy, when it's easy, practice it. I don't know what that means for you, but go ahead. You had something quickly.

Alan 19:33

The very last thing was. It's interesting and maybe this is selfish of me in this moment, but it's interesting that you, we, were so vulnerable before I even knew what it was. That's one of those weird things for me where I was a vulnerable man in many regards without ever knowing what the hell it was.

Kevin 19:57

I think you were a very courageous man, and I think that courage lent itself to vulnerability, but not with everyone, though.

Alan 20:05

Not with everyone, I feel like it was more with you, probably, than others, but maybe At the end of the day. Yeah, that's fascinating.

Practice vulnerability

Kevin 20:11

I thought you were going to say what made you reach out to me, and I was going to tell you that the seven other people I called before you didn't pick up, so you just picked me you picked up.

Alan 20:20

That's not true. I was seventh on the list Eight. It's so funny. Some people would be so offended by that. I'd be like, oh, thank you the first seven didn't pick, you were eighth.

Kevin 20:31

Okay, if you have not joined Next Level Nation yet, please do so. We had somebody who commented on one of our YouTube videos. They said I love what you're doing, keep up the good work. It's been so beneficial. I said we have a private Facebook group if you want to join. I think she actually joined today, so shout out to Evelyn I think it is.

Kevin 20:46

If I am mispronouncing your name, I'm just doing it, which I have very little of right now. Tomorrow, for episode number 1,722, the two types of imposter syndrome. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan 21:06

Keep it courageous and vulnerable Next time on Nation.