Next Level University

#1805 - What Does It Take To Be A “Real Man”?

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What does it mean to be a man? Is it about showing strength or being vulnerable? In this thought-provoking episode, Alan and Kevin share their stories and lessons on manhood, discussing how they’ve grown from insecure teenagers into self-aware men. They explore the dynamic tension between internal strength and external expectations, the dangers of toxic masculinity, and the importance of emotional honesty. If you’ve ever questioned what it takes to be a “real man,” this episode offers insights that might change your perspective.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Show notes:
(1:37) The goal of being a self-aware man and breaking generational trauma
(4:21) Reflections on family and identity
(5:56) Adversity as a tool for growth
(9:46) Redefining masculinity: Internal Vs. External strength
(11:23) The dangers of toxic masculinity and false confidence
(20:32) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday o

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1805, what does it take to be a real man? I texted Alan and said hey, man, what do you think about doing this episode from the NLU perspective? Not the toxic, insecure stuff that you hear very often.

Speaker 2

I think we should do it from the frame. Here's what I think we should do. What do you think we should do? I think we should do it from the frame of we went to high school together and I think that insecure men in high school I would say both of us were at that time yeah for sure, yeah, definitely. I think that what we thought back then was a quote-unquote real man. Versus what we now understand, I think that would be really powerful.

Speaker 1

Somebody asked me on a podcast recently. They said what is it? What did they ask me? I was talking about my dad and how I didn't have a dad around. And they asked are you going to have kids? And I said no, we're not going to have our own kids. We're not going to have our own kids. We've already decided that.

The goal of being a self-aware man and breaking generational trauma

Speaker 1

And he's like well, you never know, you might change your mind. I said well, if so, I'd have to get the surgery reversed. That's how committed I am to not. I got stuff taken care of, because that was kind of the decision we made. And he said what do you think the point of, or the goal of being a good man is, or a good dad? And I said as hyper consciously as possible, not passing on the traumas and triggers that you had, but also not doing the opposite and giving somebody the opposite of. Okay, I grew up with no money. I'm going to make sure you are showered with everything and then you have some level of entitlement. I said I think that's the goal. The goal is to be so self-aware that you understand why you are the way you are based on the way you were raised, and then make sure you don't over swing and create the opposite problems for the next generation.

Speaker 2

I think and again, I'm not a parent yet, but I've been thinking a lot about this because I've always wanted to be a good father. Not having a father and then having what I would consider not a good father for a stepfather. I was on a podcast yesterday and he said why didn't you change your last name back? I was like, how dare you? I was joking, but he's like I would have changed my name. I don't really care what you would have done, son, but I had that little moment of I chose not to change it back because it's part of my story yeah you know it's part of my story.

Speaker 2

I I don't identify with mccorkle because I wasn't a mccorkle. I mean, I am by blood but not by nurture right. So I I'm the first irish, german, polish lazarus we have to change everything a lot of work it's a lot of work.

Speaker 2

I don't know, honestly I think to myself, that is part of my story. And when I was seven my mom gave me. She said do you want to change your name? Now, whether or not it was a real choice, I don't really know, to be honest. I mean I was like, yeah, let's do it. But I remember thinking to myself he's like, well, that's just my perspective.

Speaker 1

I was like, well, easy for you to say.

Speaker 2

Yeah, not usually a place you go in an interview. I don't think he meant any harm by it, I think he was just he's an engineer and he doesn't understand social norms. It's okay, uh, that's not usually a question you ask publicly, sir, uh, but anyway. So what was my point of all that? Okay, so I wanted to be a really good dad and I always thought to myself and this is fascinating and I guess I hope it is I I figured it would be legacy is my number one core value and it's like. It's like your own legacy. I don't have a long line of I don't have like my dad's, dad's, dad's.

Speaker 2

I don't have any of that. I you and I kind of grew up without families a little bit, not with the conventional family.

Reflections on family and identity

Speaker 2

Not with the conventional family because we didn't have dads, and I think typical families not always, but in the past. In the past, families were usually More patriarchal, and I'm not saying always, but in the past. In the past, families were usually more patriarchal, and I'm not saying that's right, by the way, definitely not. But I think that you and I, growing up without dads, I wanted to be a really good dad, and so the three sort of things that I've articulated in my own mind and I've been thinking about this my entire life honestly is what is the right amount of? How do you lead? Because I think parenting is leadership of little people. Uh, how do you lead effectively? Because, on the one hand, you don't want them to have no adversity, because our adversities have made us stronger and smarter and more innovative and more creative and and also more grateful and less entitled to your point. But you also don't want to induce drama or adversity and so you don't want to over swing to your point. So I was thinking to myself there's two types of adversity. There's the adversity that happens to you that you and I kind of had a lot of me, more than you, but we had a lot Like we didn't get to decide that we didn't have dads. That wasn't a choice, that was just adversity, right? So my father died. That's just adversity. Your father left that's just adversity. It happens to you.

Adversity as a tool for growth

Speaker 2

What I think is and again I'm saying this with humility because I know I'm not a parent yet, but what I think is a good type of adversity, is the one that comes from setting high aims. So you and I set big goals together when we were naive and we were in our mid-20s and we had our quarter-life crises and we decided you know what we're done with this corporate thing and we're going to build our own business. And we aimed high. And you had a net worth goal and I had a net worth goal and we're going to embark on this journey. We're going to change the world. And we were naive kids really, in hindsight, and a lot of that is going to still happen and a lot of that is going to be very different than we originally thought, I think.

Speaker 2

But here's the thing all of the adversity that came from setting that high aim together has made us better men. I think I would agree We've had to face everything inside, outside. We've had to. Not everything, obviously, we're still on that journey, but we've had to go on this hero's journey to discover who Alan and who Kevin is, to reassess our past, to build ourselves in the present and to become better and give up the previous level in order to get to the next level.

Speaker 2

And so I think that parenting if, when I am a father, that's my intention I think, leading by example through my own virtue and effort, is going to create a high bar that creates adversity. I think, in other words, having a father to live up to which I never had might be something that I can create for my children, where not in the ego sense of my kids need to make, make sure they make me proud, like not that kind of thing, because I think a lot of parents do that too. It's well, you need to be XYZ in order to make me proud, and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is and I really do wish that this happened more often, not only in my own life, but in general where parents chase their own dreams and achieve their own goals and improve themselves to where it inspired kids to want to do the same, and I think that that's ultimately again.

Speaker 1

That's my take. It's what I think now more than ever. So a couple I don't know a week ago, tara and I were getting ready for bed. We were watching something in bed and it was like nine o'clock we usually go to bed at 10 and she said do you want to do a face mask? It was on my birthday, this was actually on my birthday. She said do you want to do a face mask, One of those Neutrogena face masks and I was like hell, yeah, I do. I love them, they're awesome.

Speaker 2

And.

Redefining masculinity: Internal Vs. External strength

Speaker 1

I don't know, I don't know. I think she took a picture of me like putting it on because it was mayhem and I was leaking all over the place and I remember thinking it would not bother me at all if she posted that on social media. Yeah, it wouldn't bother me, even a little bit. It would have bothered 16 year old or 20 year old or 25 year old Kev yeah, 25 year old Kev a lot. So let's go into why that's year old kid a lot. So let's go into why that's exactly it. That's because I believe, I believe the old definition of a man was externally hard. You were supposed to be externally hard and you're not supposed to show any emotion. I now think, if you, for me, this is my perspective and my perspective only I think being a real man is being as internally strong as you are externally strong and you show emotion and you show vulnerability, but it's in a constructive way, with the intention of you improving. Maybe it's and again, everybody has their own definition it's I will get knocked down For sure and I will be vulnerable and I will cry and I will ask for support and I'll need a shoulder. But the next day or two days or three days or four days or five days later, I will get up and I will try to do better and I will take ownership for my mistakes, which I make a ton of, and I'll work on the internal stuff. That is, and I'll work on the internal stuff. That is just the ownership. The ownership of the internal stuff and the external stuff. I don't think you need to dress a certain way, I don't think you need to say certain words, I don't think you have to have a certain career. I think it's just being a good, a real man is being a real human who is focused on growth, who is focused on humility.

Speaker 1

Somebody asked me on a podcast. They said what is something that you see that is considered very positive but you think is dangerous behind the scenes? Nice, and I said, whew, that's a good question, it's a great question. I don't remember who it was, but it was a really good question. I said men and we were speaking on men, humans in general, but men who have a very, very rough exterior that you can tell is just mostly ego, who are unfortunately being role models for other men. Yeah, other men. Yeah, because it's misconstrued as confidence and it's not. It's not confidence, because you can tell. You can tell by the way they react to certain things. That's not confidence. How can you tell?

The dangers of toxic masculinity and false confidence

Speaker 2

that's the point, because in high school and for me, what was the most insecure year of your life mine was 14 stepdad left, mom, got in a fight with her sister, lost that side of the like, kind of got ostracized from that side of the family. We went from you know upper middle class we had a yacht as a family to I get free lunch at school now, yeah, because our income is so low and my sister moved out that same year. So for me and I was prepubescent, I mean I look young now when I was 14, I looked six. I mean it was bad, I was short. I was short. I was like 5'2 or something. I hadn't hit puberty at all. All my friends were like I remember Kiki, he got all these muscles like out of nowhere, just hit puberty Dude's like jacked and again, jacked is relative. But when I got to high school there was you'll know who I'm talking about because you went to my high school but there was some guys in our high school that looked like 30-year-old men.

Speaker 1

I remember when I played freshman football. They were grown-ass men. Yeah, like going to the military and it was like, yeah, no, you definitely, you definitely are a grown-ass man. I feel, like you're ready to go now. You could do it right now yeah, I think it was. For me it was probably after high school, oh really, because everybody went away to college and I was pumping gas I was super, I was so insignificant, I don't know, 17, 17 17?

Speaker 2

well, we graduate when we're 18, or you were 17 when we graduated, so yeah, so 17, 18, probably 17 so for me it was 14, so let's picture those most insecure.

Speaker 2

That was when we were the most insecure internally, right, and externally. We tried really hard not to no one know like I was just red-faced little nerd trying to get straight a's and getting pity dances from my sister's friends. Uh, because I felt so insignificant. And and that's ultimately what it is too is when you're really insecure but you pretend you're not. I think that's dangerous. Oh, it is very dangerous yeah, can we go into why, like why is that so dangerous?

Speaker 1

because it's not, it's false. It's like acting rich and not having any money. It's like acting successful, not having, because it's not real. And if anybody takes your lead on misleading, yeah, it's very misleading it's like acting rich and not having any money. It's like acting successful and not having any, because it's not real. And if anybody takes your lead, on that it's misleading.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's very misleading. It's very misleading and if anything, I think more success is going to make life harder. It's going to regardless. But internally, if you're super insecure and nobody thinks you are, you're missing out on so many opportunities to connect with people that you would connect with yeah, and to learn.

Speaker 2

Because if you're, if you're portraying we talked about this a little bit in the last episode if you're trying to portray being competent or confident or greatness for whatever that means, you kind of aren't in a position to actually learn. You're sort of it's like you at the fire academy you didn't want to look dumb, so you didn't ask questions, and then you ended up dumb because of it. It's not dumb, but you know what I'm saying? You ended up losing in the in the long run. Everything that's good for you in the short term is pretty much bad for you long term.

Speaker 2

It's so weird it is weird I'm very I'm actually grateful that I I started playing the long game when I was 14. I started I decided because I saw just think of who I'm thinking of, because we're just keeping anonymous. But I was in spanish class and he was dating the most attractive girl in our high school and the dude was a grown man. Okay, yeah, and I remember being in spanish class and we had a fairly attractive spanish, spanish teacher and when you're a young boy, all you care about is like what was your name?

Speaker 1

what was your spanish name? Do you remember? Mine was gilberto. I don't know if I had one man, I don't know. That was a dark time for me in retrospect. It's like how it's how strange you have to choose a spanish name yeah, why can't? Just be. I don't want to take somebody else's name because I'm in a class that's Spanish. I feel like that's kind of weird now.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you know, yeah, we, it's been a trip to look back and so picture that class and I'm just, I'm just. I remember thinking to myself I'm screwed, I'm so screwed, I can't compete with this guy. And she, just a few years earlier, she was my girlfriend. In middle school. I was blonde hair, backstreet boy, no one hit puberty yet. So it was that. And when I was high school, I was I'm in trouble, I'm in some trouble here. So I just decided to be the smartest person ever and I just decided to play the long game. I remember making that choice. I remember thinking I can't win this game of whatever the hell this is in, even the next five years.

Speaker 1

I'm screwed. Masculinity, that's what it was. It was external masculinity, external masculinity, and I knew I was going to win that either.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I cannot win, so I'm just going to play the longest game ever and I didn't realize. But when the past is painful and the present is painful, you kind of have to do that. You just go into the future and I think that's where, ever since I was a kid, I think my visionary whatever-ness, my future orientation, came from. Well, the past is painful and the present is painful, so I better look into the future and I'm sure part of that was visionary and part of that was just to escape have you ever seen?

Speaker 1

you don't watch anything, so I don't know any movies that he's been in that you would. Did you ever? You didn't never watch the Walking Dead, I'm guessing I did. Yeah, I did. You know John Bernthal? I don't know what character he is. I think he's the sheriff in that. No, he's not the sheriff, the sheriff, he's the Punisher In the Punisher series. Hold on, let me show you. Alan and I were planning on doing two episodes.

Speaker 2

We're going to do one, we'll make it a little bit longer. I know who you're talking about. He has a wider nose.

Speaker 1

That's what you asked me. He has a wider nose.

Speaker 2

He's got a very unique nose. He's got a unique big set of ears on him.

Speaker 1

I know, I think I know who you're talking about. I'm not trying to hate on the guy. No, no, no, no, no. He's a good looking dude. He's a stud. Yeah, I have a man crush on him straight up. Keep it real. What is this? Stay in Safari.

Speaker 2

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's him, yeah, yeah, he's.

Speaker 1

He's in the first two seasons okay spoiler alert he just didn't show up for the third one you're not saying he died, no idea why.

Speaker 2

I'm not saying he did or didn't die.

Speaker 1

But I I have been consuming a lot of his con. He has a podcast called real ones and he sits down with people and just has real deep conversations and talks. Yeah, I don't know him. I'm not saying I associate with him, I'm not saying he's a role model, but I get really good vibes from him because he's very externally masculine but he is super vulnerable and he just seems. He had somebody on the show recently that was on Daredevil and he was in Daredevil as the Punisher. The Punisher is my favorite thing of all time. That's why I'm talking about it so much. And when he had her on it was just like he just gave her the floor and gave her all the love in the beginning and was super supportive when she was crying and it's just like that to me is the best representation externally, from the outside. I don't know him personally. I would love to If I could get to know Jon Bernthal. You will.

Speaker 2

My life, my life. You will, if you want to.

Speaker 1

I do want to.

Speaker 2

He has a podcast and you're the podcast guy. We'll make it happen. But the podcast guy, we'll make it happen.

Speaker 1

But I just long term long for anything, just to talk to him, to see I think there's a piece of me that wants to see behind the scenes.

Speaker 2

Yeah, see if he really is. Are you what I think you are? I think emilia and I were talking about that on our walk yesterday. One of the downsides of virtual is, when you meet people in person, it is a different energy. Yeah, there's a delta. It's almost like this is the 2d world, I think. In person it's just different energetically. That's a whole another episode maybe, but there's a downside to that. I remember whenever I meet someone in person, there's, there's a delta, either positive or negative. People are either more than I thought or less than I thought, and again, I don't mean intrinsically I. I love human beings in general, but it's even physically the way people look online. When you meet them in person, oh my goodness, this is very different. Sometimes it's way better, sometimes it's way worse. Again, it is what it is yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

If I mean, if you were to look at us, you would think alan and I are the same size. If you look at this I am taller than alan in my frame. I am not taller than alan in real life yeah, you'd be.

Speaker 2

I gotta throw my little booster seat. Yeah, you probably should if it was like to scale, I'd be like way down.

Speaker 1

I wouldn't even be on them, be able to be on the mic. I'd be talking up to the mic like this, but luckily I can set my camera up however I want so where was I, where did I want?

Speaker 2

oh, okay, what's the opposite of that? Whatever that was in the way he treated her and was there for her safe space, vulnerable, like what's the opposite? Like what would you consider toxic?

Speaker 1

somebody said this to me on a podcast recently. They said I all I think that toxic is is just wildly immature. I was like, interesting, interesting what does immature mean?

Speaker 2

because I agree, I mean, I definitely you can tell your character is below your age and life experience. I think it's. I think it all comes down to being fake. I think ego is just being fake yeah it's.

Speaker 2

You're trying to portray something that isn't real. You're trying to portray strength that isn't real. The pufferfish and the turtle shell. That isn't real. The puffer fish and the turtle shell. The puffer fish is actually scared because it knows it's weak, so it has to puff up to pretend that it's strong in order to protect itself. I think that's a really good metaphor for what toxic masculinity is?

Speaker 1

Quite literally, that is its defense mechanism.

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Speaker 2

That's how it stays alive yeah, and I think that that's what happens, and I think a lot of men who are what I've found in my coaching is men who have fathers who are really toxic tend to go one of two ways. They either go the opposite direction, they end up the turtle, which is what I did for sure, or and and in some ways I became the puffer too publicly. I understand that I, you know I would puff up at certain times for sure, so I'm not perfect in this by any means, I think the amount that we puff and the amount that we turtle is just lower. Everyone's still doing it right now. If you triggered me, I would either have to turtle shell or puff up, but I just wouldn't do it as much. I'm not gonna go from five to ten and suddenly be like oh well, kev, did you know that? I know that, right, I'm not gonna. It might be well, what do you think about that son? Like playfully, right? I think that it shows being a real man, quote unquote in this episode.

Speaker 2

Another thing that shows and indicates a quote-unquote real man is someone who can play with their ego playfully. It's like you and I will flex, and playfully, and a lot of people think it's toxic, by the way, fyi. Yeah, understandably, understand. Understandable, yeah, and I think it is for a lot of people who do flex. You and I are doing it in a way where we're playing with our ego. We're not actually like that. Yeah, sometimes I've been in rooms and I'll keep this anonymous but I've been in rooms with people who flex with us and I know that that's actually what they're like. So it's not as enjoyable for me. It's almost like I don't know if we should and what does that mean? But that's what they're like. It's almost like they're trying to portray something that, deep down, is not in alignment with how they really feel about themselves. It's almost like what's a good example of this?

Speaker 2

it's like having a company that doesn't make any money and pretending what's the name of the company that was raised a billion dollars or whatever the woman who was steve jobs was her hero, or whatever.

Speaker 1

Hold on elizabeth something. I do not remember the name of the company, but it was all a fraud, I was all a fraud yeah, that is a good metaphor, I think, for what the opposite of a real man is.

The value of genuine emotional expression

Speaker 2

I think a real man owns what's real Like. If I feel, if I'm feeling strong and I'm feeling capable and competent and confident and I embody that, that's great. If I'm feeling really weak and insecure and hurt and sad and I'm trying to portray the opposite, I think that actually proves that I'm actually insecure about being who I really am.

Speaker 1

It's a very I can't remember any. I can't remember the actress's name who played her in the movie. I can't remember anything. That's okay. It was a company and they raised like billions of dollars potentially and then they found out like, oh, this is all fake. None of this is actually real. We don't have any answers to anything we've said, it's almost like the less you are.

Speaker 2

We'll go quick with this, but there's two types of courage, there's two types of confidence. There's competence courage and there's competence confidence. So we'll use kevin and I as examples. I had a lot of competence courage and a lot of competence confidence makes sense, meaning I felt like I could achieve externally what I wanted for the most part, but I didn't have a lot of courage in speaking up for who I am socially. And I didn't have a lot of courage, confidence in who I am as a person.

Speaker 2

I would kind of hide my engineer, I would hide some of my genius stuff and I would hide a lot of my intellect to try to fit in. I think that's why I drank so much too, because it made me feel relatable. Kev was the opposite. I feel like you were confident in who you were as a person and you were courageous with who you were as a person, which is why you had no problem going to therapy and stuff like that I don't want to say no problem, but less than me and so you and I kind of drove to five, and now I feel like we're both becoming confident, not only in achievement but also in who we are as men, and I think that when you're actually confident in who you are as a person and your abilities, I think that's when you actually have the opportunity to be quote unquote a real man, because then you don't have to constantly dance around your insecurities.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's just making your internal and external world elevate at the same. Not at the same time, necessarily, but you don't. Honestly, I would say it's more the internal world than the external.

Speaker 1

I think it went the opposite way for a long time, where it was okay you achieve success and you make money and you support the family and you provide for the family, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just don't worry about your feelings, don't even worry about them, don't talk about them, don't think about them. Don't you dare cry? How dare you cry? So I think it's the internal stuff. If you want to provide, I want to provide for my family. I don't think that makes me a man, though I don't if my wife said hey, I would like to always make half of our money. Cool, awesome.

Speaker 2

I don't have to be you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, I don't have to prove to myself that to me, that's not what makes you a man, that doesn't make you a man, but on the other end, if, hey, I would like to not have to work.

Speaker 1

One day you also can step up to that plate too, and I think that's part of being a man as well. Yeah, yeah, I just. I think it's about knowing you and it's about working on you internally and externally. It's about becoming the best version of you. If you're doing that, I would say you're becoming more and more of a man. Agreed, that's that's the best. That's the best advice, or the best answer I can give. That's not even advice, the best answer I can give.

Speaker 2

I have no clue what our time limit is, by the way, so I'm on it. We're good. We're good. Yeah, I'm on it. Kevin and I, for a long time we've talked about trying to be the male role models we've never had, and I think we're sort of on that path. I think it's really cool. But this episode, I think, is really in alignment with that, Because I've contemplated a lot of this but never talked about it really.

Speaker 1

It's scary to talk about.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's scary to talk about. I remember my mom saying my stepdad was around from 3 to 14. That's 11 years. So he was around for from 3 to 14 he was. That's 11 years, so he was around for 11 years. And my mom said she only ever saw him cry once and it was at his mom's funeral. So my grandma joan, what I used to call my grandma joan I never got to see her after 14, but when she passed away my mom was there at the funeral and she saw my stepfather cry for the first time.

Speaker 2

I remember thinking to myself that's not great, that's not good. And there's other people in my life I'll keep it anonymous because, again, a lot of this stuff is so delicate because of these insecurities but I have someone in my life who's never seen their father cry. But I have someone in my life who's never seen their father cry except for one time at his father's funeral. And I remember watching the rock. The rock posted a video and I use the rock. Please don't associate me with anyone ever. Uh, it's not that I don't like the rock. I, I think overall, you know whatever, but I just can't anymore, but anyways. So the Rock was a childhood hero of mine. He's no longer a hero of mine and I'm just going to leave that there, but I remember watching the video of him at his father's funeral. Did you see that video? He posted one on Instagram.

Speaker 2

I did too yeah, ied him too. Uh, which is also interesting, right, we both did that. I don't even know if we talked about it.

Speaker 1

We didn't I know we definitely didn't.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I unfollowed him as well, so I have no idea what's going on. I've gone. I've gone on a binge, though, like I'm unfollowing so many people same, it's just like yeah I don't know why I followed you and and why I want to follow you now, are just different, so agreed, so anyways, but back before, I unfollowed him and we're not suggesting to do that. By the way, I I genuinely don't. I'm not trying to sound pretentious.

Speaker 1

Yeah, same, it's just uh just like I used to follow a lot of supermodels. Yeah, why was I following supermodels, I wonder?

Speaker 2

my instagram account was. I started in the fitness space, so it was just all that. So I've had to do a lot of unfollowing, but anyways. So he posted a video of his speech at his father's funeral and his father was in the wrestling industry, in a public figure, and so was he, and I remember during the speech he, he did not cry. He did everything he could to not cry and he just sat there for a long period of time and he said just give me a minute. And the audience was respectful and he just would not cry. And I remember thinking to myself why not, like it's your father's funeral, you can cry, brother, what is that about? I mean honestly, whatever that is.

Speaker 2

I don't have that.

Speaker 1

Well, I think it depends. Maybe he's an ugly crier and the second he starts crying he loses control completely and then he can't finish it. I think there's stuff under it potentially.

The importance of processing trauma and being vulnerable

Speaker 2

When I was at my Uncle Joe's funeral. This might as well have been my dad's 2.0 funeral. This might as well have been my dad's 2.0 funeral because it was in the same church, it was in the same town and for me this was a really transformative day and I've never talked about it publicly, at least not to the extent I'm about to. But my Uncle Joe so it was Jim Joe, john, jane, joan, jeanette, and it was six kids Irish Catholic family and my Uncle Joe, when my father passed away, struggled with that a lot because he was his best friend. So, 30 years later, it's my Uncle Joe's funeral. My aunt, who lost two of her brothers, had to give a speech. Two of her brothers had to give a speech. And this is Emilia's sort of first or second or third interaction with my birth father's side of the family. And we're there, I'm sitting there going. I remember this church. I remember ringing the bell and I thought it was like this big, huge rope and you jump up and you ring the bell. And I thought it was like this big, huge rope and you jump up and you ring the bell and I'm like now I'm, this is this, is just this tiny little bell now. So it was just weird, and I'm I'm also not, uh, religious, so just going back to old world and seeing what I that whole thing was was really powerful for me. And so, anyways, I I remember sitting there and I remember thinking to myself everyone here is trying to keep it together. I, I'm watching everyone trying to keep it together. They're trying not to break down. And I had this moment and maybe this lands maybe it doesn't, and I'm not trying to say anything negative about my family I remember thinking why are we trying to keep it together? I was crying. This might as well be my father's funeral that I never really got to attend as an adult. This is my father's funeral 2.0, and now I get to experience it. And we went to the same cemetery where my father's buried and I got to go see him and my whole family was there. And I'm sitting there. Why am I the only one bawling my eyes out? Everyone else is trying not to cry. They actually said it. They said like, I'm just trying not, I'm trying not to lose it, I'm trying not to lose it. Why let it out? And I had this moment and this is my goddamn truth. So please, no one attack me for this.

Speaker 2

I remember thinking to myself I am the one who's bawling and I'm crying and I'm feeling it all and I'm the one who's the most a mess, quote, unquote in this moment but I'm the least burdened. I looked around and I was like I am the least burdened, and I know why because I worked through so much of that In therapy, in personal development, in you, and I's crying, you and I Father's Day together for years and years and years and years. I've faced so much of my past and I've felt the feelings the Body Keeps. The Score is a book that talks about. I've released so much of that trauma and I know that. I know that so many of the other people in my family have not, and I could feel it.

Speaker 2

And I said I am the most messy right now. I'm ugly crying, but I am the least internally burdened. And if anyone out there is listening, I have to have the courage to say this If you are deeply burdened, you're gonna have to do breath work and therapy and I had convulsive cries sometimes after certain movies from my traumas. You gotta cry it out, it's, it's so healthy to cry it out. You gotta get it out because you're, it's in there and it's holding you back I haven't cried a minute been a minute since I've cried.

Speaker 2

I feel like you had a doozy a couple of weeks ago. No.

Speaker 1

I don't think it was a doozy, I think that was a little one.

Speaker 2

I mean, I cried, but I haven't had like a For a man, I think that was a pretty hefty one. Well, I'm grateful, I'm grateful A quote, unquote, I'll put man in quotes. For a man that was a hell of a cry. It was okay. You baby, it was okay.

Speaker 1

But I think that's an important piece is the more you surround yourself with people who are working through their own trauma the safer you're going to be to actually be vulnerable.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I've only seen my mom cry once in my life. One time my entire life, and it was recent, when my grandmother was. We thought my grandmother was going to die. That was the first time I ever saw my saw my mom cry, and that I didn't. That was you want to talk about a paradigm shift. I was like whoa, whoa, what does all this mean? And it was. It was really one of the first times I've ever seen my mom be vulnerable. I was holding my mom as she was crying in the hospital. I've never done that before. That's never happened.

Speaker 1

So that, if anything that would for me was like. That made me step up more as what felt like a man. Now did I hide my emotions? No, I was still emotional. I was emotional with Taryn and I was like I don't know what any of this means. I'm all you want to talk about identity crisis. I don't know what any of this means.

Speaker 1

So that felt like anytime somebody is like really, really, really struggling, like losing somebody close to them, those are always moments for me where it's like just be the best man you can be and support them, regardless of how uncomfortable it is, regardless of how scary it is, regardless of the uncertainty that's always been a thing for me. I don't know why, I don't know what the definition of that is and what it all means, but and I know we're gonna hop in a minute so maybe we can't go deep on that, but I think that's what it is. I think it's working. It's overcoming your traumas and overcoming your triggers, and overcoming it might as well be what does it mean to be a empowered human?

Speaker 1

One of our, one of our clients that I consult with, has a program all about being an empowered human, and that's kind of what it is. It's not. I don't think it's anything more than that. It's working on your stuff so you can just be better, not necessarily accomplish more, but so you can be more well-rounded, so you don't pass on stuff, so you take ownership, so you live in the truth more. You live in the truth not from a place of ego, but from a place of truth. I think there's a difference between somebody having ego and telling Alan a truth that doesn't need to be told. That's ego Versus having the courage to tell Alan a truth that you know he needs to know and doing it in a vulnerable, scared way. I think that's what I'm aspiring to, at least.

Speaker 2

Same. I watched. I know we've got to jump. I watched a movie with Emilia last night. We often frequent childhood gems. There's a movie based apparently on an autobiography I've never read. I didn't read books back then. Fly Away Home that the Geese movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was very cute. Yeah, I do. Taryn would love that movie.

Speaker 1

I'm sure she's seen it back in the day. I think I probably saw it back in the day too.

Speaker 2

And it's a very wholesome movie. And that's what we said last night. We were it and it was a very wholesome movie and I like that word a lot and I turned to her and I said wholesome. I said I'm really grateful we have such a wholesome relationship. In the past there was, you know, I went to college and you know you're dating girls. Well, we weren't official and so you're talking it's.

Empowered human, wholesome, and virtuous

Speaker 2

It was just not that wholesome it was very it was a mess right and I have a very wholesome relationship now. I said I turned to her. I said I'm really grateful we have such a wholesome relationship. We don't lie to each other about anything. No one's talking to anyone else. I don't have anything to worry about. I remember in the past it was so brutal, uh, particularly if you're trying to date really attractive people. It's, it's just this whole damn thing right, because everyone's after them, kind of even your own friends.

Speaker 1

We have two minutes. What? What's? What's going on with?

Speaker 2

fly away home yeah, the the point is, I think that what it means to be a real man is to be wholesome, respect, that holistic, wholesome, virtuous, and I think that if you can honestly say that you're working on that, you're ahead of the game. That's really important.

Speaker 1

You ever seen Pagemaster.

Speaker 2

No.

Speaker 1

Childhood gem.

Speaker 2

No details, nope, none needed. I'm gonna look it up.

Speaker 1

Yes, see, pagemaster. I think Macacaulay culkin's in it younger. No, yeah, it's not macaulay culkin, it is. No, it is. I'm looking at the. You want to talk about a why? And again, I have what year did this come out? I haven't watched it since then, but I don't want it. We're gonna call alan the google machine it's not google.

Speaker 2

I'm imdb since then, but I'm going to call Alan the Google machine. It's not Google, I'm IMDB. Imdb International.

Speaker 1

Movie Database. Is that what that is? Yes, wow.

Speaker 2

I remember back in the day when this was a brand new website and me and Mike, what do we got for details over there?

Speaker 1

Hold on it's not coming up. I think Doc Martin from Back to the Future is in it also. I don't know his name.

Speaker 2

It's not a famous movie, so this is Also my screen, is it's?

Speaker 1

The.

Speaker 2

Pagemaster, and it's a cartoon. Is it a cartoon?

Speaker 1

No, I think there's cartoon pieces in it.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

It was ahead of its time, I'm telling you right now, 1994. That's when I I remember I had the, I had the VHS, and it came in the like the thicker container. So it wasn't just a sleeve, it wasn't a cardboard sleeve, it was a plastic container that opened? Oh, it was purple. I think 6.1 IMDB did not do well, sir it's. It was ahead of its time the awareness of the. I mean, come on, the human awareness wasn't there yet you.

Speaker 2

You know, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1

All right, we get a bounce because Alan has a coaching call and I have to pack because I am leaving early tomorrow for PodFest. Good luck, brother. I appreciate it very much. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. I just want to say this too I appreciate the opportunity for Alan and I to talk about deep stuff like this. The only time we ever get negative stuff is on social media from people that don't know us. But I very much appreciate this community Because even having this conversation, I was like this is kind of out there and it's very vulnerable to have these types of conversations. So again, I appreciate the community so very much. As always, at NLU, we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host