Next Level University

#1807 - The Downside Of Being An Underdog

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Feeling out of place in an environment you love? In this episode, Kevin shares his struggle with feeling overwhelmed and disconnected at a major podcasting event despite his success. This heartfelt discussion explores the emotional challenges of moving from an underdog to a leader and offers insights on navigating these uncomfortable transitions with honesty and self-awareness. Perfect for anyone who’s ever felt like they don’t quite fit in, even at the top.

Links mentioned:
Free 30-Minute Podcast Breakthrough Session with Kevin:
https://calendly.com/kevinpalmieri/free-30-minute-podcast-breakthrough-session-with-kevin?month=2024-08
Alan’s Coaching: Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Show notes:
(3:04) Kevin’s experience at the podcast event and the onset of unexpected emotions
(7:21) The struggle with feeling “too much” and the discomfort of success
(12:03) Alan and Kevin discuss the challenge of being more aware than most in a room
(17:57) Energetic social positioning
(23:24) Meet like-minded people and jum

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1807, the Downside of being an Underdog. I don't know really where this episode is going to go because I haven't fully sifted through my feelings. We've been saying this for a long time Our goal with NLU is to take you behind the scenes. It's been a long, freaking day To take you behind the scenes with what we're going through and growing through, because we can go through it and grow through it together. Should we just let it be? You know?

Speaker 2

We're in a giggly mood where mondays are different.

Speaker 1

We used to block off mondays and we would literally just meet. Alan and I would would just meet, and now we have. I had like eight or nine meetings today because we switched our schedules. And I'm not, it's weird, it is weird. I had a moment at the beginning where I was like I don't know, I can do this I haven't done this on on a Monday in a long time.

Speaker 2

We basically had not Monday off by any means. It felt like it though it did feel like Monday was semi-off.

Speaker 1

It was behind the scenes more than it was in front of the scenes. Yeah, even though we were supposed to be, Today was mostly front facing yeah, it is weird.

Speaker 1

I think it's good. It is strange. I think it's good. You have to evolve. I do too. It's another episode. Yes, 100%. So last week I was in Washington DC slash Virginia. I didn't realize how close Maryland and Virginia were in terms of that. I think I stayed in Virginia, but sometimes I went to Washington, I don't know. And I went to a podcast festival and there was a time where I texted Alan and I was like, hey man, I got some shame around the fact that I feel like I wasted a boatload of money coming down here. And Alan called me immediately and I wasn't excited about that. I was like, oh no, and it was good, it was a really good conversation. And he's like, dude, what's going on? And I was like I don't know man.

Speaker 1

I don't really know how to explain it. I'm just like super sad, Like I haven't been this sad since the last podcast event. I went to when I. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2

It's just the way you say that I was super sad. We should really stop going to podcasting events. It does seem that way.

Speaker 1

I just wanted to cry again and I still don't know why. That's kind of what we're going to explore in this episode. But I felt ashamed. Because I feel so bad? Because whenever I think, I'd probably be laughing anyway whenever Kev gets sad he's always funnier and I just laugh hysterically and I'm tired, which doesn't help.

Speaker 2

Yeah and when you're tired you get funnier too.

Speaker 1

So I was sad, that's it.

Kevin's experience at the podcast event and the onset of unexpected emotions

Speaker 1

I was sad end of episode, end of episode and I'm trying to figure out why. Because I am pod, I'm at a podcast conference, I love podcasting, I'm a full-time podcaster. This is a dream come true. Why do I get so sad when I go back to the airbnb? And I told alan I said I because I texted taryn and I was like I just just am struggling, like I'm depressed I don't know how to explain it I'm sitting outside on a park bench, like 15 minutes away from the venue, just walking around the town. Just I'm like, and Taryn had. So she was like Kev, you got this and you're amazing. And I was like thank you so much, babe.

Speaker 1

But the way I told Alan was I just didn't care, I'm not going back, I'm not going back in, I don't care, I don't really care, I'm gonna very strong motivational speech here there was. There was none of that. I just it was one of those things where I felt really sad and I was like I don't know if this is actually what's best for my mental health, to go back, honestly, and I know alan will understand that. So yeah, and I'm sure we'll get into that more over the next however many episodes, but I think, based on our conversation that we had before this episode. The reason that I was so sad is because I am used to being an underdog where most people never would have bet, especially me. I never would have bet on myself that I was going to be any level of successful. When I'm at a podcast event, I want to talk about all the amazing things that we're doing and how many episodes we've done, and clients and all that, but there is a fear that I have that I'm going to overwhelm someone, that I'm going to come off as arrogant, that I'm too good, I have too much results whatever, and I'm just not used to being on that end. So I think what happens is I just suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress and rather than continue to suppress, I just want to stop going. I just would rather leave and go be by myself until I can go back. That's currently the awareness that I have about it.

Speaker 1

Why does it get so bad? I don't know. I don't know. The first day I almost didn't. I didn't want to go. I had to get in the shower. There was a lot going on in the business, so I was overwhelmed with that. But I had to get in the shower and say, kev, just go and see what it's like. Just go and see what it's like. And then from there, when I started getting dressed, I was like all right, you're good, you feel good, go and see what it's like. Go and see what it's like. Go and see what it's like. But there, I don't know. Even from the beginning I felt off whoa.

Speaker 2

I asked kev behind the scenes before this. I said well, you've always been in great shape and I've seen kev when he's in really, really good shape and we'll be playing yard games. This is way back and he'll be just six pack the whole time and in way better shape than anyone else there, and you didn't have any any level of needing to leave or suppress or anything. Here's what I'm realizing. You don't have to talk about that. It's just there for people to see oh yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 2

So because I asked him, I said this is not the first time you've been quote unquote better than or ahead of other people. We'll use ahead of, because at this podcast movement event it's called PodFest or Podcast Movement.

Speaker 1

There's two PodFest and Podcast Movement. This was Podcast Movement.

Speaker 2

Okay, I've been saying that wrong pretty much to everybody Anybody who knows will know?

The struggle with feeling "too much" and the discomfort of success

Speaker 2

probably based on that, but this was the biggest or second biggest podcasting event in the world? Yeah, okay, so you're there. And just for context and this is not Kevin bragging, this is me asking because I want to provide context so, of all the people in attendance, in terms of podcasting and business success, results, process, years doing it, what percentage, I guess? Are we in the top 1%? Yes, okay, so Kev is ahead and the context of this episode is the downside of being an underdog. You're now not an underdog at this event at all. Basically, yeah, okay, I think and this is what I'm connecting, and correct me if I'm wrong when you were in great shape, you were ahead of most people in fitness, but you didn't have to talk about it, you didn't have to network about it, you didn't have to talk about it, you didn't have to network about it.

Speaker 2

You didn't have to brag about it, it was just there.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Versus this. You have to talk to people and talk about your success because obviously podcasting is the topic of discussion and you don't want other people, I guess. From that frame, why didn't you want to talk about it?

Speaker 1

I don't know. It was almost like I would go up to someone, because it's not necessarily. It's strange because I don't really have trouble talking to strangers. I mean, how many strangers have you seen me talk?

Speaker 1

I'm pretty good at talking to people For sure, 100%, I won't say that's never bothered me, that's not it for me, that's not what bothers me. I would meet someone so I would go down and get coffee, because that's where everybody was hanging out. So I was like I'll go get coffee and I'll talk to people and I would say, hey, carl, tell me about your podcast, what's it about? And cool, this, this, this, this, awesome. I'd ask questions, I'm interested. You're a podcaster, I love it, and anytime somebody would ask me, it was almost like I would lessen it Because I didn't want to. Yeah, I've been a full-time podcaster since 2018. We have 1,800 episodes, million dollars, million listens. We also produce you know, whatever 48 podcasts, 49 podcasts. We do social media for people. 22 person team.

Speaker 1

I didn't. It was almost like I'll give you a little bit and then that'll be, that's enough, that'll be good, but I don't know why I don't. I feel like if I was on the other end, it probably would be inspiring to hear that. I think so. It's not. I don't think it's that. I just think I'm not used to being on that end. It's. Maybe it's because these I don't want to say these people Nobody there knew me before, so you don't know, and I want, I want to come out and say this doesn't have to be rational.

Speaker 2

This is obviously an emotional experience it doesn't.

Speaker 1

That's why it's hard, because I don't know yet, right, yeah?

Speaker 2

you, you and I. So the night that I called you, emily and I were doing our our walk for our daily workout because we were charging the tesla in a parking lot that connected to a mall and she was doing some work on her phone while we were walking and I was like I'm gonna call kev he sounds like he's having a hard time and uh no I knew intuitively, genuinely, we're playful and we laugh.

Speaker 2

But I knew I could feel the energy and I I knew it was time to call and I was curious as hell as well and I felt very seen in that call from a perspective of you said it's weird, everyone here I I know more because all I do every day is podcast and coach podcasters and produce podcasts like that's all you've basically done for seven years with very little. I mean, you took one vacation in seven years that's why I still worked.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and you still worked right, so I still worked. All you've ever done is podcast, produce podcasts and coach podcasters for seven years in a.

Speaker 1

I think the hard thing is. Somebody asked me recently. They said what's, what's the difference between you and other like podcast companies, especially production companies? And I said we didn't start as a podcast production company. We started as a podcast and then we figured out how to, how to succeed, quote, unquote, and we learned everything not to do. And I'm still a podcaster. It's not I didn't say all right, cool, now I know how to make money. We'll start a podcast company and then I'll just stop podcasting. I still podcast more than I ever imagined.

Speaker 1

I would, oh yeah, for sure, but I still podcast, more than somebody who did 100 podcast episodes on a podcast about podcasts. It's just there's just so many episodes, so I'm still on the ground doing it every day.

Alan and Kevin discuss the challenge of being more aware than most in a room

Speaker 2

So it's that's a big piece of it too. Well, Kev said it. It's not here. It's not about what you know, it's about packaging and and brand and it's weird to be the most aware in the room, to have the most knowledge in the room, but to not be known, and I think that probably I don't know if I had the most knowledge in the room, because there's some people there that are like really next level.

Speaker 1

I don't know. Even that's scary to say. I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2

I would say most Okay, top 1%, though, for sure, and I told Kev this and this is very scary to share, but I know our listeners know us, or, if you're a new listener, please don't take this the wrong way and if you do, it is what it is. I know more in most. There's very few rooms where I'm not more aware in certain regards when it comes to business, science, technology, engineering, mathematics. Business science, technology, engineering, mathematics, business, finance, success, achievement, even industries I'm not in. I've coached so many real estate people. I know more about real estate than most real estate people, which is very it sounds very arrogant.

Speaker 2

I understand that, but how do you coach that many real estate people in real estate? And I just kind of I understand it. I do at a very deep level, because real estate is business and commercial and residential and whatever. But in in most rooms, I do feel like I'm on the higher end of awareness about most things and it's very uncomfortable because you kind, no one knows that. First of all, no one can see what you know. They have no idea what you know and you can help everyone, but it's almost like you can't because no one knows. Well, I think that's the hard thing and I I can see why that would be depressing, because it is, and you kind of have to dial yourself down just to fit in it's almost like you don't fit in, but not in the way you're used to I would say that's.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm used to being afraid, I'm not enough, and I that wasn't the case. What was it this?

Speaker 2

time. I'm too much. Yeah, I'm too much. That are the two basic fears you. You said this. This is your quote.

Speaker 1

I I've quoted this a thousand times it's. I've never been on that side.

Speaker 2

You are afraid that all of you is not enough or you are afraid that all of you is too much. This is the second event that you've gone to now where you were too much I felt too much, I felt too, but evan gave you feedback and said you're too smart for your own good.

Speaker 1

After your last speech yeah, yeah, and so you were too much, he said I don't think it would be the same, though, if I was speaking, because if I was speaking at the podcast event, I don't think it would be as bad. Why? Because, then at least people, because people would think, well, he must know something's on stage.

Speaker 2

You'd still be too much, but now it's okay to be too much.

Speaker 1

Kind of yeah, age, you'd still be too much. But now it's okay to be too much. Kind of yeah, because the benefit outweighs the discomfort. The benefit outweighs the discomfort. Go deeper what I don't.

Speaker 1

I think there's a threshold where, remember, I haven't talked about this a long time tara and I went to new york right before I don't know. I think there's a threshold where, remember, I haven't talked about this in a long time Tara and I went to New York right before the pandemic. We went to, oh yeah, new York City. I think. We stayed in Times Square and Simon Sinek was speaking, yeah, and I was like, no matter what, I need to fear Chase and I need to ask Simon Sinek a question, and I don't. It was. My question wasn't great. His answer was not great either. He was, and I won't say, disrespectful, but it was disappointing, disappointing. But the reason it was disappointing is because he was of note. He was somebody who was ahead of me. He was someone who has credibility. He was someone who has allure. He was somebody who was ahead of me. He was someone who has credibility. He was someone who has allure. He was somebody who has success. His answer held weight. It held more weight than the average person because he has. He knows more about what I'm asking him than the average person, because he's done it.

Speaker 1

That's kind of how I think of it from the podcasting thing, where I got treated different at Podfest because I was on stage by people. I had a speaker badge. It says I'm a speaker. It's different, it's it's just you get put into a different segment of of value. Unfortunately, you just do that and that's why they do it. Imagine going to an event having a vip ticket and having a badge that says vip. Everybody knows you paid extra for that. So there's some. There's the social positioning of that guy paid 750 for his ticket. He must, must be doing pretty well. There's just energetic and societal positioning on that. I don't know if that answered the question at all.

Speaker 2

So it's almost like you know that you should be further on the energetic positioning than you were.

Speaker 1

I think it's almost like who were you to try to add value? I get paid to help podcasters and there it's almost like I don't feel like I'm allowed to try to help because you don't know that I could help, and the last thing I want to do is give somebody unsolicited advice, so I'll just give nothing.

Speaker 2

Kev remember how I told you we were at a barbecue once Father's Day. We went fishing and it was mainly just Kevin and I, but we were ultimately a part of sort of a Father's Day little barbecue. And I said I feel terrible here, I feel more myself with. At the time we interviewed someone named Stephen Kotler. He wrote a book called the Art of Impossible and it's all about peak performance and neurobiology. And I said I feel more myself with Stephen Kotler than I do here. And you said I'm the opposite, I feel more myself at a barbecue.

Energetic social positioning

Speaker 2

What I think is interesting here is I feel when, when I'm at the holidays or we're at thanksgiving, I kind of can't talk about most of what I'm interested in because no one's, no one knows that. I know, so I'll give you one example. So I was at so emilia's family that they're business owners and they're farther ahead than us by a significant margin, but that doesn't mean that they know more than me and but I can't talk about it because I'm not seen as of value in the, in the context that they are. So I do. I mean that's the. It sucks, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I don't like barbecues, for lack of better phrasing, it's I just can't be me, kind of so. Did you feel that way? Almost like you couldn't be you? Yeah, that's how I feel whenever I'm outside of the context of coaching, like when I go to this training. Sorry, we don't have it locked yet by any means, but I just was on today with a potential training at a. This will be the first time I've ever trained a sheriff and executives and I'm excited. I hope it happens We'll see but when I'm outside of the context of being the trainer or the coach, it's very hard for me to be myself.

Speaker 2

That's one of the reasons I love the work we do so much and again, love is a very loose word because so let me just share this.

Speaker 2

I'll go briefly with it, but there's a lesson underneath it. I enjoy coaching more than podcasting, and so for me it's podcasting is one to scale, training is one to many like group coaching, and then one-on-one coaching is where I really feel like I can be more my full self, and the reason why is because it's almost like when you're a coach for someone, you get the permission to be all of you, more than at a barbecue. You don't go up to someone at a barbecue and say hey, what are your goals and dreams and what metrics and habits are you tracking toward them? You're not welcome there, in a way, whereas if I'm your coach, I'm fully welcome, like, we get to talk about your goals and dreams, your metrics and your habits, and that's literally what you're paying me for, and so, in a way, you're at podcast movement, but you don't have the permission to coach anyone and to wear that hat and it really sucks.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it sucks because you have to dial yourself down.

Speaker 1

Yeah, when I told, I told you this and I said this to Taryn my, my version of networking is just adding value. I'm not I don't have any, I'm not going to sell you on anything, I just want to add value. What can I do to add value? But it almost, yeah, I don't want to seem presumptuous Because I had that moment. I connected with somebody, it was good, and I had that moment where I was going to say if you need anything or have any questions, let me know. And I was like you can't say that, yeah, you can't say that. It's going to sound so weird.

Speaker 2

When could you, if you were on stage? You could, if I was on stage, for sure Interesting, yeah, for sure. That is a weird human thing, Dude, honestly, that's such a weird thing.

Speaker 1

It's almost like somebody else gave you permission to be on stage, which means I have permission to ask you questions, which means you have permission to answer them. Now I'm sure. Here's the thing, and let me make this abundantly clear the event was great. It was at this wild freaking hotel. It was awesome. The venue was awesome. They must have spent a ton of money Really nice. So that was all really good. So this is nothing against the event. This is just my experience of the event. I forgot what I was going to say. It was lost.

Speaker 2

Would it be possible for you to share with them who you are, who we are, who our podcast is, what we do, and then say, if you ever need any help, like, reach out. This is what I do for a living. Is there a way to gain that energetic ground without having it be given to you?

Speaker 1

I'm sure there is. I just didn't know how to do it and I didn't want to break any eggs for lack of better phrasing. It just didn't seem worth it. That's what I told you. I was like dude, it just wasn't worth it. If it's not worth it, I won't do it, that's just. I'm weird.

Speaker 2

I'm very stubborn with stuff like that and when you say worth it hurting someone's feelings, wrecking their experience?

Speaker 1

again all not logical, it's not gonna. Is that gonna wreck somebody's experience?

Speaker 2

no, most likely not I want to tell this story. I think this will be valuable. I'll do it anonymously. I was at a place. It's at a place and there was someone yeah, in the world.

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Speaker 2

There was someone that I was talking to and they were asking me about what we do. What do you, what do you guys do, like how's it going, how's, how are things? And I said business is good. And they said, well, what do you do for business? And I said I coach business owners primarily. I mean we do a lot, but that's my main thing is coaching business owners. And she's like well, what do you mean? And this person has no context of business. They don't. They don't run a business and and they don't know what coaching business owners means. And so, to put it into context, I said, well, you know so-and-so right. And they said yeah.

Speaker 2

And this person is a very successful business owner, multimillionaire, and I said well, for example, that person would hire me to help them grow and scale their business online. In the 21st century, it's mostly online now and it's becoming more exponentially online, so I'm primarily focused on that. And she said to me oh, they're fine, they don't need your help. And I had this moment where I went oh, you think they're ahead of me in business awareness?

Speaker 1

I coach people way ahead of them all the time.

Speaker 2

So it's all. But that person drives a nice car, owns multiple homes, right, and I had this moment of there's no point in even trying. I couldn't possibly change your mind.

Speaker 1

Yeah, not without breaking rapport, Not without breaking rapport.

Speaker 2

And the old me probably would have, and I think that's what you're referring to is it's very hard to change someone's mind, whereas when you're in great shape, you can see it. You can see it physically.

The difficulty of networking and the fear of being perceived as arrogant

Speaker 1

And when I talk to podcasters, usually it's people are happy to talk. People want to talk because they want to ask questions, that's all. A podcast breakthrough session is Based on where you are today and where you aspire to get to. What do you believe is the most valuable use of our time together today? I say that every time when do you want to go? Questions, comments, what do you got? Where do you believe is the most valuable use of our time together today? I say that every time when do you want to go? Questions, comments, what do you got? Where do you want me to take this? So you're?

Speaker 2

not used to having to fight for your value.

Speaker 1

I'm not used to having any. When you don't have value, you don't have to worry about fighting for it. And then I think, I don't know, I think it depends. I feel't know, I think it depends. I feel very valued.

Speaker 1

I had a client the other day who said I can't believe your other podcast is free. You should like charge for it. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you, I appreciate that very much. It's always going to be free, though. It'll always be free. Got to keep, got to run the NL the way we did. Nlu is the way we're doing that, but I appreciated that. I was very grateful.

Speaker 1

So I don't think that's what it is. I think it's just a matter of I don't know. I wonder if there's a piece of me that just misses being the underdog. Being the underdog's cool, that's good shit. Nobody expects anything of you, you know, and anything. Any win is just a unique benefit. It's like hell, yeah, that's a plus. I'm not used to being on that side and it's this weird thing and I don't know. I don't know if it'll resonate, because maybe it's very specific and this is like the realist stuff. This is an interesting conversation because I think this is, at least me, probably closest to my most vulnerable, talking about porn and that stuff, whatever. That's nothing.

Speaker 1

I went from speaking with Evan Carmichael in person, which was quite literally like the most mind-blowing thing I've ever done up until this point. I never thought that was gonna be. That was fucking wild. Pardon, my French, nice, in front of like 20 people and then having conversations with these people and they're wildly successful and many of them are extremely wealthy. It's like, okay, this is interesting To then doing a virtual speech to Evan's group with like 50 people and just getting all of the love.

Speaker 1

Somebody booked a call to tell me how awesome I was. That's all they wanted to call for. That's it. That was all it was. It was so weird, but it was awesome. I felt so loved. Thank you, thank you so very much. So it's almost like when you're given the platform to add value, you can add so much value, but when you're not given the platform, it doesn't really matter how much you know, it doesn't really matter. And here this is the other thing. The thing about being in shape is I would never give somebody advice that didn't ask never. Just because I'm in really good shape does not mean I have the permission to to give you advice yeah even at a fitness convention, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1

I don't know, I don't know you. It's not fair.

Speaker 2

For the listeners too. We do realize that this is unique to Kev, but I think there's a lot of lessons underneath it, it's Therapy Tuesday.

Speaker 1

That's what this is.

Speaker 2

This is so. In the beginning you were an underdog and no one expected anything of you. And then later on, when you and I rebranded the next level university 500 episodes, thousand episodes, blah, blah you started going on other podcasts and you thought it was really weird to be so valued. Definitely, and going on other shows is a trip, because you get not always hey, not always, but sometimes you get really valued and they do an awesome intro. They say things about you that you haven't even thought about it. It's like, oh yeah, that's right, I did that. That's that is cool, it's very cool, but it's uncomfortable. It's almost like you're so used to being the underdog and undervalued and no one expects anything of you and you're you're nothing but scraping for scraps. And then you go from that to people, putting you on this huge pedestal of being interviewed and these great bios, and they read the intro and it's oh, my goodness. And then you got the speech with Evan and all these wealthy people now are reaching out booking calls Kevin, you've been on someone's phone background to.

Speaker 2

Now back to square one.

Speaker 2

No one knows that you're valuable at all at podcast movement, even though this is all you've ever done and all you've ever wanted to do and you feel like you can't do it.

Most aware in the room, with the slightest credibility

Speaker 2

It makes sense in hindsight and I felt very seen selfishly because I feel that way in most rooms. I mean, most people want to achieve their goals and dreams and almost no one has any idea. I don't want to say it's hard to say, but if I'm in a room of business owners, I don't. It's very hard for me to be more aware than almost all of them and to have been in the past on a trajectory that would have made me significantly more quote unquote successful than them, but then to have quit and gone in a brand new industry and to just be, it's very hard to be the most aware in the room with the least credibility. That's what it comes down to and that's me in most rooms, brother it. And I felt very seen in that because I can imagine, uh, and the only way I've ever known how to deal with that is basically just go out, work everybody I don't think that was my.

Speaker 1

That wasn't my answer.

Speaker 2

My answer was do less which is, which is, uh, you and I react differently.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I was straight up. I told Alan. I said I woke up. I went to the gym the first day I got there. I was on fire. I got there on Sunday.

Speaker 1

The event didn't start until Monday. My flight was at 10. I took the bus to the airport, which was clutch. It's awesome, it's the best. You park your car, you get on the bus, it takes you to the airport, you don't have to worry about anything. Perfect, love it, and it's affordable.

Speaker 1

We went to, we went to Wisconsin for a speech and we parked my car at the airport and then we went straight from Wisconsin to Toronto without wisconsin, to toronto without going home, and we anticipated on going home and it cost like 500 to park in the garage for that long and it was terrible. So this is, this was nice, but I I flew out to to washington and I got my rental and I went straight from the airport to the gym, found a gym awesome gym, crushed it and there was this like really nice lake and this boardwalk and after I worked out I couldn't check into the airbnb until four. It was only like 3 30. So I went back there and I sat outside for a little bit. It was awesome and like that.

Speaker 1

I was on fire for that first, that that initial time. But then monday came and there was mayhem in the business and we have a bunch of podcasts launching and I'm overwhelmed and I'm trying to figure stuff out and you go get your badge at noon. I was going to go at noon. I didn't end up getting off the phone with Alan until 3, 30, or 4. So it was like I'm tapped out already. I'm already super overwhelmed.

Speaker 2

And this. There's an aversion here because you probably knew on some level this was going to suck Probably.

Speaker 1

It happened last time. It happened last time too. It was depressed. That's the best way to. Yeah, I was depressed. I woke up in the morning. I literally thought what time can I get back in the Airbnb? What can I do to crawl into bed? And where am I going to get food? Those are the first three thoughts I had when I woke up into bed. And where am I gonna get food? Those are the first three thoughts I had when I woke up, and that's the first time I've had thoughts like that since the previous podcast event, but since I had my job before that and I'm still like I'm working through it.

Speaker 2

I'm definitely not 100 is some of it too, that a lot of this was once a dream and now it's different than you thought it would be I mean it's definitely different than I thought.

Speaker 1

No, I don't know, maybe I think it's different than you thought it would be. I mean it's definitely different than I thought. No, I don't know, Maybe I think it's the. It's the, the difference between going to the place where you think you're going to fit in the most and then feeling like you fit in the least. And again, I understand this is like a privilege problem to have, so hopefully there's a lesson for everybody in it. Maybe your own unique experience, but yeah, it's like. Imagine going to a fitness place, valuing fitness at level 10, having really good fitness results, expecting that you're going to meet your tribe and your people, and then feeling way further off than you do on a normal day. Today I felt way more connected than I did there. I was on the phone with podcasters all day.

Speaker 2

Is the hard truth of this that you are in a room of people that were your. Did you meet anyone that you weren't ahead of? For lack of a better phrasing, no, and the gap was just huge.

Speaker 1

I could have if I wanted to go talk to the people that spoke, but I didn't. I didn't want to. It's not why I'm there. That's not why I'm there. I'm not there to network with the successful like oh, this person's I don't care, you're on stage, cool yeah.

Speaker 2

I don't care. You and I have always been on the weird end of networking. We're not big into networking.

Speaker 1

I think it's. I don't know. I think it can be selfish. It can be selfish. I am convinced that if I just add more value to your life than anybody else, if you ever want to work with someone, it'll be me, and if not, no worries, I don't care. Cool, that's whatever, but that that's. I can't add value. If you don't know I'm valuable, that's all it is and I'm not. I don't want to risk it. The last thing I want to do is because there was somebody I met there who was. They were like yeah, I want to do this full time and I have this really important meeting with this person. I might get picked up by their podcast network and there's a piece of me that's like that, ain't it?

Speaker 2

No, that ain't it. That's not the way to do it, and you didn't want to tell them the hard truth.

Speaker 1

No, they were so excited for their meeting.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but it's so hard to know the hard truth and to want to share it, but also know that it's going to feel like you're taking wind out of their sails.

Speaker 1

And I don't want to do that. Yeah, a lot of times.

Speaker 2

I feel that way. Where people tell me things and I'm going to do X, y and it's. That's not going to happen. That's not going to work. Yeah, it is. It's a little bit depressing, huh.

Speaker 1

Well, that's. That's why sometimes I think it want to, Can't do it. If you try really hard and you do what you love, you'll be successful. That's not a guarantee. It's not. And yeah, I think I'd rather be villainized for saying that than rewarded for saying the opposite.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I had someone come to me and say I want to start a podcast, I want to do what you guys have done. Say I want to start a podcast, I want to do what you guys have done, and I had to say there's no way I I it's not me being a dream killer I want to see you win but you're not being responsible yeah, you're not a natural speaker, and that's okay.

Reflecting on the emotional toll of growth and the unexpected downside of success

Speaker 2

I'm not a natural many things. It's not gonna be what you think and the fact that you want to do it isn't enough, and I don't want to see you go invest a ton of time and effort for years into something that you're not naturally inclined to succeed at. And I'm not going to tell Kev to go try to get in the NBA either, because it's not going to happen, nov to go try to get in the nba either, because it's not going to happen, no matter how good his knockout game is what about my three?

Speaker 1

my three game, my?

Speaker 2

three ball?

Speaker 2

no, brother, it's a little late now 35 we won't lie to anyone and and I think, kevin, instead of lie, he's here were your options number one lie to people and just be excited when you weren't. Or number two tell the hard truth. That is going to seem like you're taking wind out of their sails when they are excited and eager, and neither one of those options were worth it to you. So, and underneath this, I don't know what the core is, but there's some sort of fear, maybe fear of coming off as arrogant or pretentious or self-righteous or whatever it is. But ultimately, the the lesson for that came up for me is you need to be, you need to be in an energetic position where people are looking to you for guidance, because you need to have indicators that you have earned your stripes and that you are credible. And unfortunately, it's very, very challenging to turn your passion into purpose, into profit, at the beginning, when you don't have any of that.

Speaker 2

And in the future we will, if we do, go to podcasting events. It will be. Hopefully we will be. Uh, yeah, it will be. We will be speakers and at this stage, 1800 episodes and you've done almost a thousand now of other shows I mean, podcasting is all we do now and obviously training and coaching and that kind of stuff too. But I'm getting to that point too where it's.

Speaker 2

It's definitely interesting to be you and I have done an episode a day, every day, for many years and then, and all we're doing is learning and growing and talking about this stuff like this is what we do for a living. It's not like we sometimes talk about sports and we sometimes talk about comedy and we sometimes talk about movies I mean, we mentioned movies but all we're doing every day is trying to get deeper understandings about coaching, speaking, podcasting, achievement, success, fulfillment, self-awareness, consistency, self-discipline. So I feel very seen in this Kev because you're in a room, you've put in the work, you've earned your stripes, but yet no one knows that, and that feels very, very similar to how I feel in a lot of rooms, and so if anyone out there listening feels that way, hopefully this resonates. And if you don't feel that way but you are earning your stripes every single day, trust me, eventually you will feel that way yeah, it's people, places, things, ideas and feelings, like I said today.

Speaker 1

Today was I had amazing conversations with people that got on because they wanted to ask questions. It was awesome. It was awesome. And here's the other thing, too I'm not just punting responsibility. I could have found I could have done a better job of finding people and starting conversations and oh here, do you want to meet up tomorrow? Here's my instagram in case you want information. Like I could have done a better job. So there's the responsibility of that. I just didn't think it would be worth it. That was my truth is look, I'm not, I'm out, I'm tapped out. I'm checking out when my flight's here. I'll leave and I will lick my wounds and figure out what are the lessons and then we'll decide based on that so I made a conscious decision to shut it down like that's.

Speaker 2

That's on me I told kev, we're gonna try to succeed our way and we're gonna do that with as much humility as possible. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do, but ultimately we're gonna succeed our way and I think that maybe that way is definitely not your way. And let's, let's do our thing and today.

Speaker 1

Was you doing your thing today?

Speaker 2

Yeah, We'll give it a shot. See what happens. Today was you doing your thing, my friend, and obviously podcast movement wasn't.

Speaker 1

And that's, that's okay. Expectations are different too. I think that's okay. Well, expectations are different too. I think that's. I've been to two podcast events. The first one, I had very similar feelings. I thought the second one would be different, so this might be one of those perception behavior things.

Speaker 2

Why did you think it would be different?

Speaker 1

I have grown a lot. I've evolved a lot. I mean, that was when did I go to Florida? Like December of last year. It's been almost two years.

Speaker 2

No December of last year would be less than a year.

Speaker 1

December of last year. Oh, yeah, right, I'm thinking January.

Speaker 2

Nine months.

Speaker 1

So a lot I mean think of I'm thinking nine months. So a lot I mean think of it nine months times 30 episodes a month, 270 episodes plus on a couple hundred and probably done 500 episodes since then.

Speaker 2

And it only got worse.

Speaker 1

Didn't get better, right? So I think, maybe knowing that I met with somebody today who I haven't talked to in like a year, and she said I love how energetic and outgoing and confident you are. I feel like you're different than when we last talked and I said, well, it's just time. And she's like what do you mean? I said we talked a year ago. I've done 500, 600, 700 episodes since then. It's just how many coaching calls and speeches and group coaching and monthly meetups. It's just I. It's just. I've done a lot of stuff since then. That's all. You're just seeing the result of that. That's all.

Speaker 1

Compound effect, compound effect. All right, we're going to go because it's been a long ass episode. Thank you for sitting with us. I don't know. Again, I don't know. I had a moment where I was thinking maybe at some point we could do like a therapy Thursday where I come with whatever I'm going through and you help me solve it. Live, maybe a potential. I don't know. Do I really want to put myself in that position? I don't know. Do I really want to open up all of the cans of worms associated with that? I don't know, but we'll think about it.

Speaker 2

Well, I think I'm a better coach than a therapist.

Speaker 1

Well, there's no days that start with C, unfortunately. Oh, I got you.

Speaker 2

That's the only reason why yeah.

Speaker 1

Could be like talk it out Thursday, I don't know. We'll figure it out. If you're a podcaster and you're looking to get to the next level in podcasting, I am certain I can help you, and my belief is I can help you more than anybody else on the planet. And that's what I'm going to stick it with, and I'm going to say it, and I'm going to tell you the truth, even though sometimes the truth sucks. And if you're looking for a business coach or a peak performance coach, I genuinely believe Alan can serve you better than anybody else on the planet. I might sound super arrogant.

Speaker 1

We've just done a lot of calls. How many coaching calls have you done? 5,000, 6,000, 7,000? I'm certain it's over 5,000. That's a lot of coaching calls. So think of that. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands. I have thousands as well, not as many as Alan, but I have thousands as well. So first, we're practicing what we preach and we're doing it every day. We're working on ourselves and at the end of the day, if we stop working on ourselves, we're unable to help anybody else. So that's always going to be the core of what this is. So reach out to me if you want help with podcasting. Reach out to Alan if you want help with your business or peak performance coaching Him and Emilia do relationship talks coaching as well. That's a thing. There's a lot of stuff, so we'll put as much of that in the show notes as possible. If not, everything will be on nextleveluniversecom. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Please reach out. Boom Strong, work man.

Speaker 1

Oh brutal.

Speaker 2

It was good.

Speaker 1

Well, it's hard when you still don't know.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host