Next Level University

#1807 - The Downside Of Being An Underdog

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Feeling out of place in an environment you love? In this episode, Kevin shares his struggle with feeling overwhelmed and disconnected at a major podcasting event despite his success. This heartfelt discussion explores the emotional challenges of moving from an underdog to a leader and offers insights on navigating these uncomfortable transitions with honesty and self-awareness. Perfect for anyone who’s ever felt like they don’t quite fit in, even at the top.

Links mentioned:
Free 30-Minute Podcast Breakthrough Session with Kevin:
https://calendly.com/kevinpalmieri/free-30-minute-podcast-breakthrough-session-with-kevin?month=2024-08
Alan’s Coaching: Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:04) Kevin’s experience at the podcast event and the onset of unexpected emotions
(7:21) The struggle with feeling “too much” and the discomfort of success
(12:03) Alan and Kevin discuss the challenge of being more aware than most in a room
(17:57) Energetic social positioning
(23:24) Meet like-minded people and jumpstart your journey to achieving your dreams while optimizing your life. Join Next Level Group Coaching. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
(24:59) The difficulty of networking and the fear of being perceived as arrogant
(29:52) Most aware in the room, with the slightest credibility
(36:04) Reflecting on the emotional toll of growth and the unexpected downside of success
(45:33) Outro

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🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation . Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University , where we help you level up your life , your love , your health and your wealth . Today , for episode number 1807 , the Downside of being an Underdog . I don't know really where this episode is going to go because I haven't fully sifted through my feelings . We've been saying this for a long time Our goal with NLU is to take you behind the scenes . It's been a long , freaking day To take you behind the scenes with what we're going through and growing through , because we can go through it and grow through it together . Should we just let it be ? You know ?

Speaker 2

We're in a giggly mood where mondays are different .

Speaker 1

We used to block off mondays and we would literally just meet . Alan and I would would just meet , and now we have . I had like eight or nine meetings today because we switched our schedules . And I'm not , it's weird , it is weird . I had a moment at the beginning where I was like I don't know , I can do this I haven't done this on on a Monday in a long time .

Speaker 2

We basically had not Monday off by any means . It felt like it though it did feel like Monday was semi-off .

Speaker 1

It was behind the scenes more than it was in front of the scenes . Yeah , even though we were supposed to be , Today was mostly front facing yeah , it is weird .

Speaker 1

I think it's good . It is strange . I think it's good . You have to evolve . I do too . It's another episode . Yes , 100% . So last week I was in Washington DC slash Virginia . I didn't realize how close Maryland and Virginia were in terms of that . I think I stayed in Virginia , but sometimes I went to Washington , I don't know . And I went to a podcast festival and there was a time where I texted Alan and I was like , hey man , I got some shame around the fact that I feel like I wasted a boatload of money coming down here . And Alan called me immediately and I wasn't excited about that . I was like , oh no , and it was good , it was a really good conversation . And he's like , dude , what's going on ? And I was like I don't know man .

Speaker 1

I don't really know how to explain it . I'm just like super sad , Like I haven't been this sad since the last podcast event . I went to when I . I'm sorry .

Speaker 2

It's just the way you say that I was super sad . We should really stop going to podcasting events . It does seem that way .

Speaker 1

I just wanted to cry again and I still don't know why . That's kind of what we're going to explore in this episode . But I felt ashamed . Because I feel so bad ? Because whenever I think , I'd probably be laughing anyway whenever Kev gets sad he's always funnier and I just laugh hysterically and I'm tired , which doesn't help .

Speaker 2

Yeah and when you're tired you get funnier too .

Speaker 1

So I was sad , that's it .

Speaker 1

I was sad end of episode

Kevin's experience at the podcast event and the onset of unexpected emotions

Speaker 1

, end of episode and I'm trying to figure out why . Because I am pod , I'm at a podcast conference , I love podcasting , I'm a full-time podcaster . This is a dream come true . Why do I get so sad when I go back to the airbnb ? And I told alan I said I because I texted taryn and I was like I just just am struggling , like I'm depressed I don't know how to explain it I'm sitting outside on a park bench , like 15 minutes away from the venue , just walking around the town . Just I'm like , and Taryn had . So she was like Kev , you got this and you're amazing . And I was like thank you so much , babe .

Speaker 1

But the way I told Alan was I just didn't care , I'm not going back , I'm not going back in , I don't care , I don't really care , I'm gonna very strong motivational speech here there was . There was none of that . I just it was one of those things where I felt really sad and I was like I don't know if this is actually what's best for my mental health , to go back , honestly , and I know alan will understand that . So yeah , and I'm sure we'll get into that more over the next however many episodes , but I think , based on our conversation that we had before this episode . The reason that I was so sad is because I am used to being an underdog where most people never would have bet , especially me . I never would have bet on myself that I was going to be any level of successful . When I'm at a podcast event , I want to talk about all the amazing things that we're doing and how many episodes we've done , and clients and all that , but there is a fear that I have that I'm going to overwhelm someone , that I'm going to come off as arrogant , that I'm too good , I have too much results whatever , and I'm just not used to being on that end . So I think what happens is I just suppress , suppress , suppress , suppress and rather than continue to suppress , I just want to stop going . I just would rather leave and go be by myself until I can go back . That's currently the awareness that I have about it .

Speaker 1

Why does it get so bad ? I don't know . I don't know . The first day I almost didn't . I didn't want to go . I had to get in the shower . There was a lot going on in the business , so I was overwhelmed with that . But I had to get in the shower and say , kev , just go and see what it's like . Just go and see what it's like . And then from there , when I started getting dressed , I was like all right , you're good , you feel good , go and see what it's like . Go and see what it's like . Go and see what it's like . But there , I don't know . Even from the beginning I felt off whoa .

Speaker 2

I asked kev behind the scenes before this . I said well , you've always been in great shape and I've seen kev when he's in really , really good shape and we'll be playing yard games . This is way back and he'll be just six pack the whole time and in way better shape than anyone else there , and you didn't have any any level of needing to leave or suppress or anything . Here's what I'm realizing . You don't have to talk about that . It's just there for people to see oh yeah , that's fair .

Speaker 2

So because I asked him , I said this is not the first time you've been quote unquote better than or ahead of other people . We'll use ahead of , because at this podcast movement event it's called PodFest or Podcast Movement .

Speaker 1

There's two PodFest and Podcast Movement . This was Podcast Movement .

Speaker 2

Okay , I've been saying that wrong pretty much to everybody Anybody who knows will know ?

Speaker 2

probably based on that , but this was the biggest or second biggest podcasting event in the world ? Yeah , okay , so you're there . And just for context and this is not Kevin bragging , this is me asking because I want to provide context so , of all the people in attendance , in terms of podcasting and business success , results , process , years doing it , what percentage , I guess ? Are we in the top 1% ? Yes , okay , so Kev is ahead and the context of this episode is

The struggle with feeling "too much" and the discomfort of success

Speaker 2

the downside of being an underdog . You're now not an underdog at this event at all . Basically , yeah , okay , I think and this is what I'm connecting , and correct me if I'm wrong when you were in great shape , you were ahead of most people in fitness , but you didn't have to talk about it , you didn't have to network about it , you didn't have to talk about it , you didn't have to network about it .

Speaker 2

You didn't have to brag about it , it was just there .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2

Versus this . You have to talk to people and talk about your success because obviously podcasting is the topic of discussion and you don't want other people , I guess . From that frame , why didn't you want to talk about it ?

Speaker 1

I don't know . It was almost like I would go up to someone , because it's not necessarily . It's strange because I don't really have trouble talking to strangers . I mean , how many strangers have you seen me talk ?

Speaker 1

I'm pretty good at talking to people For sure , 100% , I won't say that's never bothered me , that's not it for me , that's not what bothers me . I would meet someone so I would go down and get coffee , because that's where everybody was hanging out . So I was like I'll go get coffee and I'll talk to people and I would say , hey , carl , tell me about your podcast , what's it about ? And cool , this , this , this , this , awesome . I'd ask questions , I'm interested . You're a podcaster , I love it , and anytime somebody would ask me , it was almost like I would lessen it Because I didn't want to . Yeah , I've been a full-time podcaster since 2018 . We have 1,800 episodes , million dollars , million listens . We also produce you know , whatever 48 podcasts , 49 podcasts . We do social media for people . 22 person team .

Speaker 1

I didn't . It was almost like I'll give you a little bit and then that'll be , that's enough , that'll be good , but I don't know why I don't . I feel like if I was on the other end , it probably would be inspiring to hear that . I think so . It's not . I don't think it's that . I just think I'm not used to being on that end . It's . Maybe it's because these I don't want to say these people Nobody there knew me before , so you don't know , and I want , I want to come out and say this doesn't have to be rational .

Speaker 2

This is obviously an emotional experience it doesn't .

Speaker 1

That's why it's hard , because I don't know yet , right , yeah ?

Speaker 2

you , you and I . So the night that I called you , emily and I were doing our our walk for our daily workout because we were charging the tesla in a parking lot that connected to a mall and she was doing some work on her phone while we were walking and I was like I'm gonna call kev he sounds like he's having a hard time and uh no I knew intuitively , genuinely , we're playful and we laugh .

Speaker 2

But I knew I could feel the energy and I I knew it was time to call and I was curious as hell as well and I felt very seen in that call from a perspective of you said it's weird , everyone here I I know more because all I do every day is podcast and coach podcasters and produce podcasts like that's all you've basically done for seven years with very little . I mean , you took one vacation in seven years that's why I still worked .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and you still worked right , so I still worked . All you've ever done is podcast , produce podcasts and coach podcasters for seven years in a .

Speaker 1

I think the hard thing is . Somebody asked me recently . They said what's , what's the difference between you and other like podcast companies , especially production companies ? And I said we didn't start as a podcast production company . We started as a podcast and then we figured out how to , how to succeed , quote , unquote , and we learned everything not to do . And I'm still a podcaster . It's not I didn't say all right , cool , now I know how to make money . We'll start a podcast company and then I'll just stop podcasting . I still podcast more than I ever imagined .

Speaker 1

I would , oh yeah , for sure , but I still podcast , more than somebody who did 100 podcast episodes on a podcast about podcasts . It's just there's just so many episodes , so I'm still on the ground doing it every day .

Speaker 2

So it's that's a big piece of it too . Well , Kev said it . It's not here . It's not about what you know , it's about packaging and and brand

Alan and Kevin discuss the challenge of being more aware than most in a room

Speaker 2

and it's weird to be the most aware in the room , to have the most knowledge in the room , but to not be known , and I think that probably I don't know if I had the most knowledge in the room , because there's some people there that are like really next level .

Speaker 1

I don't know . Even that's scary to say . I don't know , I don't know .

Speaker 2

I would say most Okay , top 1% , though , for sure , and I told Kev this and this is very scary to share , but I know our listeners know us , or , if you're a new listener , please don't take this the wrong way and if you do , it is what it is . I know more in most . There's very few rooms where I'm not more aware in certain regards when it comes to business , science , technology , engineering , mathematics . Business science , technology , engineering , mathematics , business , finance , success , achievement , even industries I'm not in . I've coached so many real estate people . I know more about real estate than most real estate people , which is very it sounds very arrogant .

Speaker 2

I understand that , but how do you coach that many real estate people in real estate ? And I just kind of I understand it . I do at a very deep level , because real estate is business and commercial and residential and whatever . But in in most rooms , I do feel like I'm on the higher end of awareness about most things and it's very uncomfortable because you kind , no one knows that . First of all , no one can see what you know . They have no idea what you know and you can help everyone , but it's almost like you can't because no one knows . Well , I think that's the hard thing and I I can see why that would be depressing , because it is , and you kind of have to dial yourself down just to fit in it's almost like you don't fit in , but not in the way you're used to I would say that's .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I'm used to being afraid , I'm not enough , and I that wasn't the case . What was it this ?

Speaker 2

time . I'm too much . Yeah , I'm too much . That are the two basic fears you . You said this . This is your quote .

Speaker 1

I I've quoted this a thousand times it's . I've never been on that side .

Speaker 2

You are afraid that all of you is not enough or you are afraid that all of you is too much . This is the second event that you've gone to now where you were too much I felt too much , I felt too , but evan gave you feedback and said you're too smart for your own good .

Speaker 1

After your last speech yeah , yeah , and so you were too much , he said I don't think it would be the same , though , if I was speaking , because if I was speaking at the podcast event , I don't think it would be as bad . Why ? Because , then at least people , because people would think , well , he must know something's on stage .

Speaker 2

You'd still be too much , but now it's okay to be too much .

Speaker 1

Kind of yeah , age , you'd still be too much . But now it's okay to be too much . Kind of yeah , because the benefit outweighs the discomfort . The benefit outweighs the discomfort . Go deeper what I don't .

Speaker 1

I think there's a threshold where , remember , I haven't talked about this a long time tara and I went to new york right before I don't know . I think there's a threshold where , remember , I haven't talked about this in a long time Tara and I went to New York right before the pandemic . We went to , oh yeah , new York City . I think . We stayed in Times Square and Simon Sinek was speaking , yeah , and I was like , no matter what , I need to fear Chase and I need to ask Simon Sinek a question , and I don't . It was . My question wasn't great . His answer was not great either . He was , and I won't say , disrespectful , but it was disappointing , disappointing . But the reason it was disappointing is because he was of note . He was somebody who was ahead of me . He was someone who has credibility . He was someone who has allure . He was somebody who was ahead of me . He was someone who has credibility . He was someone who has allure . He was somebody who has success . His answer held weight . It held more weight than the average person because he has . He knows more about what I'm asking him than the average person , because he's done it .

Speaker 1

That's kind of how I think of it from the podcasting thing , where I got treated different at Podfest because I was on stage by people . I had a speaker badge . It says I'm a speaker . It's different , it's it's just you get put into a different segment of of value . Unfortunately , you just do that and that's why they do it . Imagine going to an event having a vip ticket and having a badge that says vip . Everybody knows you paid extra for that . So there's some . There's the social positioning of that guy paid 750 for his ticket . He must , must be doing pretty well . There's just energetic and societal positioning on that . I don't know if that answered the question at all .

Speaker 2

So it's almost like you know that you should be further on the energetic positioning than you were .

Speaker 1

I think it's almost like who were you to try to add value ? I get paid to help podcasters and there it's almost like I don't feel like I'm allowed to try to help because you don't know that I could help , and the last thing I want to do is give somebody unsolicited advice , so I'll just give nothing .

Speaker 2

Kev remember how I told you we were at a barbecue once Father's Day . We went fishing and it was mainly just Kevin and I , but we were ultimately a part of sort of a Father's Day little barbecue . And I said I feel terrible here , I feel more myself with . At the time we interviewed someone named Stephen Kotler . He wrote a book called the Art of Impossible and it's all about peak performance and neurobiology . And I said I feel more myself with Stephen Kotler than I do here . And you said I'm the opposite , I feel more myself at a barbecue .

Speaker 2

What I think is interesting here is I feel

Energetic social positioning

Speaker 2

when , when I'm at the holidays or we're at thanksgiving , I kind of can't talk about most of what I'm interested in because no one's , no one knows that . I know , so I'll give you one example . So I was at so emilia's family that they're business owners and they're farther ahead than us by a significant margin , but that doesn't mean that they know more than me and but I can't talk about it because I'm not seen as of value in the , in the context that they are . So I do . I mean that's the . It sucks , and maybe that's one of the reasons why I don't like barbecues , for lack of better phrasing , it's I just can't be me , kind of so . Did you feel that way ? Almost like you couldn't be you ? Yeah , that's how I feel whenever I'm outside of the context of coaching , like when I go to this training . Sorry , we don't have it locked yet by any means , but I just was on today with a potential training at a . This will be the first time I've ever trained a sheriff and executives and I'm excited . I hope it happens We'll see but when I'm outside of the context of being the trainer or the coach , it's very hard for me to be myself .

Speaker 2

That's one of the reasons I love the work we do so much and again , love is a very loose word because so let me just share this .

Speaker 2

I'll go briefly with it , but there's a lesson underneath it . I enjoy coaching more than podcasting , and so for me it's podcasting is one to scale , training is one to many like group coaching , and then one-on-one coaching is where I really feel like I can be more my full self , and the reason why is because it's almost like when you're a coach for someone , you get the permission to be all of you , more than at a barbecue . You don't go up to someone at a barbecue and say hey , what are your goals and dreams and what metrics and habits are you tracking toward them ? You're not welcome there , in a way , whereas if I'm your coach , I'm fully welcome , like , we get to talk about your goals and dreams , your metrics and your habits , and that's literally what you're paying me for , and so , in a way , you're at podcast movement , but you don't have the permission to coach anyone and to wear that hat and it really sucks .

Speaker 1

Yeah , it sucks because you have to dial yourself down .

Speaker 1

Yeah , when I told , I told you this and I said this to Taryn my , my version of networking is just adding value . I'm not I don't have any , I'm not going to sell you on anything , I just want to add value . What can I do to add value ? But it almost , yeah , I don't want to seem presumptuous Because I had that moment . I connected with somebody , it was good , and I had that moment where I was going to say if you need anything or have any questions , let me know . And I was like you can't say that , yeah , you can't say that . It's going to sound so weird .

Speaker 2

When could you , if you were on stage ? You could , if I was on stage , for sure Interesting , yeah , for sure . That is a weird human thing , Dude , honestly , that's such a weird thing .

Speaker 1

It's almost like somebody else gave you permission to be on stage , which means I have permission to ask you questions , which means you have permission to answer them . Now I'm sure . Here's the thing , and let me make this abundantly clear the event was great . It was at this wild freaking hotel . It was awesome . The venue was awesome . They must have spent a ton of money Really nice . So that was all really good . So this is nothing against the event . This is just my experience of the event . I forgot what I was going to say . It was lost .

Speaker 2

Would it be possible for you to share with them who you are , who we are , who our podcast is , what we do , and then say , if you ever need any help , like , reach out . This is what I do for a living . Is there a way to gain that energetic ground without having it be given to you ?

Speaker 1

I'm sure there is . I just didn't know how to do it and I didn't want to break any eggs for lack of better phrasing . It just didn't seem worth it . That's what I told you . I was like dude , it just wasn't worth it . If it's not worth it , I won't do it , that's just . I'm weird .

Speaker 2

I'm very stubborn with stuff like that and when you say worth it hurting someone's feelings , wrecking their experience ?

Speaker 1

again all not logical , it's not gonna . Is that gonna wreck somebody's experience ?

Speaker 2

no , most likely not I want to tell this story . I think this will be valuable . I'll do it anonymously . I was at a place . It's at a place and there was someone yeah , in the world .

Speaker 2

There was someone that I was talking to and they were asking me about what we do . What do you , what do you guys do , like how's it going , how's , how are things ? And I said business is good . And they said , well , what do you do for business ? And I said I coach business owners primarily . I mean we do a lot , but that's my main thing is coaching business owners . And she's like well , what do you mean ? And this person has no context of business . They don't . They don't run a business and and they don't know what coaching

Meet like-minded people and jumpstart your journey to achieving your dreams while optimizing your life. Join Next Level Group Coaching.

Speaker 2

business owners means . And so , to put it into context , I said , well , you know so-and-so right . And they said yeah .

Speaker 2

And this person is a very successful business owner , multimillionaire , and I said well , for example , that person would hire me to help them grow and scale their business online . In the 21st century , it's mostly online now and it's becoming more exponentially online , so I'm primarily focused on that . And she said to me oh , they're fine , they don't need your help . And I had this moment where I went oh , you think they're ahead of me in business awareness ?

Speaker 1

I coach people way ahead of them all the time .

Speaker 2

So it's all . But that person drives a nice car , owns multiple homes , right , and I had this moment of there's no point in even trying . I couldn't possibly change your mind .

Speaker 1

Yeah , not without breaking rapport , Not without breaking rapport .

Speaker 2

And the old me probably would have , and I think that's what you're referring to is it's very hard to change someone's mind , whereas when you're in great shape , you can see it . You can see it physically .

Speaker 1

And when I talk to podcasters , usually it's people are happy to talk . People want to talk because they want to ask questions , that's all . A podcast breakthrough session is Based on where you are today and where you aspire to get to . What do you believe is the most valuable use of our time together today ? I say that every time when do you want to go ? Questions , comments , what do you got ? Where do you believe is the most valuable use of our time together today ? I say that every time when do you want to go ? Questions , comments , what do you got ? Where do you want me to take

The difficulty of networking and the fear of being perceived as arrogant

Speaker 1

this ? So you're ?

Speaker 2

not used to having to fight for your value .

Speaker 1

I'm not used to having any . When you don't have value , you don't have to worry about fighting for it . And then I think , I don't know , I think it depends . I feel't know , I think it depends . I feel very valued .

Speaker 1

I had a client the other day who said I can't believe your other podcast is free . You should like charge for it . Well , I appreciate that . Thank you , I appreciate that very much . It's always going to be free , though . It'll always be free . Got to keep , got to run the NL the way we did . Nlu is the way we're doing that , but I appreciated that . I was very grateful .

Speaker 1

So I don't think that's what it is . I think it's just a matter of I don't know . I wonder if there's a piece of me that just misses being the underdog . Being the underdog's cool , that's good shit . Nobody expects anything of you , you know , and anything . Any win is just a unique benefit . It's like hell , yeah , that's a plus . I'm not used to being on that side and it's this weird thing and I don't know . I don't know if it'll resonate , because maybe it's very specific and this is like the realist stuff . This is an interesting conversation because I think this is , at least me , probably closest to my most vulnerable , talking about porn and that stuff , whatever . That's nothing .

Speaker 1

I went from speaking with Evan Carmichael in person , which was quite literally like the most mind-blowing thing I've ever done up until this point . I never thought that was gonna be . That was fucking wild . Pardon , my French , nice , in front of like 20 people and then having conversations with these people and they're wildly successful and many of them are extremely wealthy . It's like , okay , this is interesting To then doing a virtual speech to Evan's group with like 50 people and just getting all of the love .

Speaker 1

Somebody booked a call to tell me how awesome I was . That's all they wanted to call for . That's it . That was all it was . It was so weird , but it was awesome . I felt so loved . Thank you , thank you so very much . So it's almost like when you're given the platform to add value , you can add so much value , but when you're not given the platform , it doesn't really matter how much you know , it doesn't really matter . And here this is the other thing . The thing about being in shape is I would never give somebody advice that didn't ask never . Just because I'm in really good shape does not mean I have the permission to to give you advice yeah even at a fitness convention , it doesn't matter .

Speaker 1

I don't know , I don't know you . It's not fair .

Speaker 2

For the listeners too . We do realize that this is unique to Kev , but I think there's a lot of lessons underneath it , it's Therapy Tuesday .

Speaker 1

That's what this is .

Speaker 2

This is so . In the beginning you were an underdog and no one expected anything of you . And then later on , when you and I rebranded the next level university 500 episodes , thousand episodes , blah , blah you started going on other podcasts and you thought it was really weird to be so valued . Definitely , and going on other shows is a trip , because you get not always hey , not always , but sometimes you get really valued and they do an awesome intro . They say things about you that you haven't even thought about it . It's like , oh yeah , that's right , I did that . That's that is cool , it's very cool , but it's uncomfortable . It's almost like you're so used to being the underdog and undervalued and no one expects anything of you and you're you're nothing but scraping for scraps . And then you go from that to people , putting you on this huge pedestal of being interviewed and these great bios , and they read the intro and it's oh , my goodness . And then you got the speech with Evan and all these wealthy people now are reaching out booking calls Kevin , you've been on someone's phone background to .

Speaker 2

Now back to square one .

Speaker 2

No one knows that you're valuable at all at podcast movement , even though this is all you've ever done and all you've ever wanted to do and you feel like you can't do it .

Speaker 2

It makes sense in hindsight and I felt very seen selfishly because I feel that way in most rooms . I mean , most people want to achieve their goals and dreams and almost no one has any idea . I don't want to say it's hard to say , but if I'm in a room of business owners , I don't . It's very hard for me to be more aware than almost all of them and to have been in the past on a trajectory that would have made me significantly more quote unquote successful than them , but then to have quit and gone in a brand new industry and to just be , it's very hard to be the most aware in the room with the least credibility . That's what it comes down to and that's me in most rooms , brother it . And I felt very seen in that because I can imagine , uh , and the only way I've

Most aware in the room, with the slightest credibility

Speaker 2

ever known how to deal with that is basically just go out , work everybody I don't think that was my .

Speaker 1

That wasn't my answer .

Speaker 2

My answer was do less which is , which is , uh , you and I react differently .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I was straight up . I told Alan . I said I woke up . I went to the gym the first day I got there . I was on fire . I got there on Sunday .

Speaker 1

The event didn't start until Monday . My flight was at 10 . I took the bus to the airport , which was clutch . It's awesome , it's the best . You park your car , you get on the bus , it takes you to the airport , you don't have to worry about anything . Perfect , love it , and it's affordable .

Speaker 1

We went to , we went to Wisconsin for a speech and we parked my car at the airport and then we went straight from Wisconsin to Toronto without wisconsin , to toronto without going home , and we anticipated on going home and it cost like 500 to park in the garage for that long and it was terrible . So this is , this was nice , but I I flew out to to washington and I got my rental and I went straight from the airport to the gym , found a gym awesome gym , crushed it and there was this like really nice lake and this boardwalk and after I worked out I couldn't check into the airbnb until four . It was only like 3 30 . So I went back there and I sat outside for a little bit . It was awesome and like that .

Speaker 1

I was on fire for that first , that that initial time . But then monday came and there was mayhem in the business and we have a bunch of podcasts launching and I'm overwhelmed and I'm trying to figure stuff out and you go get your badge at noon . I was going to go at noon . I didn't end up getting off the phone with Alan until 3 , 30 , or 4 . So it was like I'm tapped out already . I'm already super overwhelmed .

Speaker 2

And this . There's an aversion here because you probably knew on some level this was going to suck Probably .

Speaker 1

It happened last time . It happened last time too . It was depressed . That's the best way to . Yeah , I was depressed . I woke up in the morning . I literally thought what time can I get back in the Airbnb ? What can I do to crawl into bed ? And where am I going to get food ? Those are the first three thoughts I had when I woke up into bed . And where am I gonna get food ? Those are the first three thoughts I had when I woke up , and that's the first time I've had thoughts like that since the previous podcast event , but since I had my job before that and I'm still like I'm working through it .

Speaker 2

I'm definitely not 100 is some of it too , that a lot of this was once a dream and now it's different than you thought it would be I mean it's definitely different than I thought .

Speaker 1

No , I don't know , maybe I think it's different than you thought it would be . I mean it's definitely different than I thought . No , I don't know , Maybe I think it's the . It's the , the difference between going to the place where you think you're going to fit in the most and then feeling like you fit in the least . And again , I understand this is like a privilege problem to have , so hopefully there's a lesson for everybody in it . Maybe your own unique experience , but yeah , it's like . Imagine going to a fitness place , valuing fitness at level 10 , having really good fitness results , expecting that you're going to meet your tribe and your people , and then feeling way further off than you do on a normal day . Today I felt way more connected than I did there . I was on the phone with podcasters all day .

Speaker 2

Is the hard truth of this that you are in a room of people that were your . Did you meet anyone that you weren't ahead of ? For lack of a better phrasing , no , and the gap was just huge .

Speaker 1

I could have if I wanted to go talk to the people that spoke , but I didn't . I didn't want to . It's not why I'm there . That's not why I'm there . I'm not there to network with the successful like oh , this person's I don't care , you're on stage , cool yeah .

Speaker 2

I don't care . You and I have always been on the weird end of networking . We're not big into networking .

Speaker 1

I think it's . I don't know . I think it can be selfish . It can be selfish . I am convinced that if I just add more value to your life than anybody else , if you ever want to work with someone , it'll be me , and if not , no worries , I don't care . Cool , that's whatever , but that that's . I can't add value . If you don't know I'm valuable , that's all it is and I'm not . I don't want to risk it . The last thing I want to do is because there was somebody I met there who was . They were like yeah , I want to do this full time and I have this really important meeting with this person . I might get picked up by their podcast network and there's a piece of me that's like that , ain't it ?

Speaker 2

No , that ain't it . That's not the way to do it , and you didn't want to tell them the hard truth .

Speaker 1

No , they were so excited for their meeting .

Speaker 2

Yeah , but it's so hard to know the hard truth and to want to share it , but also know that it's going to feel like you're taking wind out of their sails .

Speaker 1

And I don't want to do that . Yeah , a lot of times .

Speaker 2

I feel that way . Where people tell me things and I'm going to do X , y and it's . That's not going to happen . That's not going to work . Yeah , it is . It's a little bit depressing , huh .

Speaker 1

Well , that's . That's why sometimes I think it want to , Can't do it . If you try really hard and you do what you love , you'll be successful . That's not a guarantee . It's not . And yeah , I think I'd rather be villainized for saying that than rewarded for saying the opposite .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I had someone come to me and say I want to start a podcast , I want to do what you guys have done . Say I want to start a podcast , I want to do what you guys have done , and I had to say there's no way I I it's not me being a dream killer I want to see you win but you're not being responsible yeah , you're not a natural speaker , and that's okay .

Speaker 2

I'm not a natural many things . It's not gonna be what you think and the fact that you want to do it isn't enough , and I don't want to see you go invest a ton of time and effort for years into something that you're not naturally inclined to succeed at . And I'm not going to tell Kev to go try to get in the NBA either , because it's not going to happen , nov to go try to get in the nba either

Reflecting on the emotional toll of growth and the unexpected downside of success

Speaker 2

, because it's not going to happen , no matter how good his knockout game is what about my three ?

Speaker 1

my three game , my ?

Speaker 2

three ball ?

Speaker 2

no , brother , it's a little late now 35 we won't lie to anyone and and I think , kevin , instead of lie , he's here were your options number one lie to people and just be excited when you weren't . Or number two tell the hard truth . That is going to seem like you're taking wind out of their sails when they are excited and eager , and neither one of those options were worth it to you . So , and underneath this , I don't know what the core is , but there's some sort of fear , maybe fear of coming off as arrogant or pretentious or self-righteous or whatever it is . But ultimately , the the lesson for that came up for me is you need to be , you need to be in an energetic position where people are looking to you for guidance , because you need to have indicators that you have earned your stripes and that you are credible . And unfortunately , it's very , very challenging to turn your passion into purpose , into profit , at the beginning , when you don't have any of that .

Speaker 2

And in the future we will , if we do , go to podcasting events . It will be . Hopefully we will be . Uh , yeah , it will be . We will be speakers and at this stage , 1800 episodes and you've done almost a thousand now of other shows I mean , podcasting is all we do now and obviously training and coaching and that kind of stuff too . But I'm getting to that point too where it's .

Speaker 2

It's definitely interesting to be you and I have done an episode a day , every day , for many years and then , and all we're doing is learning and growing and talking about this stuff like this is what we do for a living . It's not like we sometimes talk about sports and we sometimes talk about comedy and we sometimes talk about movies I mean , we mentioned movies but all we're doing every day is trying to get deeper understandings about coaching , speaking , podcasting , achievement , success , fulfillment , self-awareness , consistency , self-discipline . So I feel very seen in this Kev because you're in a room , you've put in the work , you've earned your stripes , but yet no one knows that , and that feels very , very similar to how I feel in a lot of rooms , and so if anyone out there listening feels that way , hopefully this resonates . And if you don't feel that way but you are earning your stripes every single day , trust me , eventually you will feel that way yeah , it's people , places , things , ideas and feelings , like I said today .

Speaker 1

Today was I had amazing conversations with people that got on because they wanted to ask questions . It was awesome . It was awesome . And here's the other thing , too I'm not just punting responsibility . I could have found I could have done a better job of finding people and starting conversations and oh here , do you want to meet up tomorrow ? Here's my instagram in case you want information . Like I could have done a better job . So there's the responsibility of that . I just didn't think it would be worth it . That was my truth is look , I'm not , I'm out , I'm tapped out . I'm checking out when my flight's here . I'll leave and I will lick my wounds and figure out what are the lessons and then we'll decide based on that so I made a conscious decision to shut it down like that's .

Speaker 2

That's on me I told kev , we're gonna try to succeed our way and we're gonna do that with as much humility as possible . Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do , but ultimately we're gonna succeed our way and I think that maybe that way is definitely not your way . And let's , let's do our thing and today .

Speaker 1

Was you doing your thing today ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , We'll give it a shot . See what happens . Today was you doing your thing , my friend , and obviously podcast movement wasn't .

Speaker 1

And that's , that's okay . Expectations are different too . I think that's okay . Well , expectations are different too . I think that's . I've been to two podcast events . The first one , I had very similar feelings . I thought the second one would be different , so this might be one of those perception behavior things .

Speaker 2

Why did you think it would be different ?

Speaker 1

I have grown a lot . I've evolved a lot . I mean , that was when did I go to Florida ? Like December of last year . It's been almost two years .

Speaker 2

No December of last year would be less than a year .

Speaker 1

December of last year . Oh , yeah , right , I'm thinking January .

Speaker 2

Nine months .

Speaker 1

So a lot I mean think of I'm thinking nine months . So a lot I mean think of it nine months times 30 episodes a month , 270 episodes plus on a couple hundred and probably done 500 episodes since then .

Speaker 2

And it only got worse .

Speaker 1

Didn't get better , right ? So I think , maybe knowing that I met with somebody today who I haven't talked to in like a year , and she said I love how energetic and outgoing and confident you are . I feel like you're different than when we last talked and I said , well , it's just time . And she's like what do you mean ? I said we talked a year ago . I've done 500 , 600 , 700 episodes since then . It's just how many coaching calls and speeches and group coaching and monthly meetups . It's just I . It's just . I've done a lot of stuff since then . That's all . You're just seeing the result of that . That's all .

Speaker 1

Compound effect , compound effect . All right , we're going to go because it's been a long ass episode . Thank you for sitting with us . I don't know . Again , I don't know . I had a moment where I was thinking maybe at some point we could do like a therapy Thursday where I come with whatever I'm going through and you help me solve it . Live , maybe a potential . I don't know . Do I really want to put myself in that position ? I don't know . Do I really want to open up all of the cans of worms associated with that ? I don't know , but we'll think about it .

Speaker 2

Well , I think I'm a better coach than a therapist .

Speaker 1

Well , there's no days that start with C , unfortunately . Oh , I got you .

Speaker 2

That's the only reason why yeah .

Speaker 1

Could be like talk it out Thursday , I don't know . We'll figure it out . If you're a podcaster and you're looking to get to the next level in podcasting , I am certain I can help you , and my belief is I can help you more than anybody else on the planet . And that's what I'm going to stick it with , and I'm going to say it , and I'm going to tell you the truth , even though sometimes the truth sucks . And if you're looking for a business coach or a peak performance coach , I genuinely believe Alan can serve you better than anybody else on the planet . I might sound super arrogant .

Speaker 1

We've just done a lot of calls . How many coaching calls have you done ? 5,000 , 6,000 , 7,000 ? I'm certain it's over 5,000 . That's a lot of coaching calls . So think of that . Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands . I have thousands as well , not as many as Alan , but I have thousands as well . So first , we're practicing what we preach and we're doing it every day . We're working on ourselves and at the end of the day , if we stop working on ourselves , we're unable to help anybody else . So that's always going to be the core of what this is . So reach out to me if you want help with podcasting . Reach out to Alan if you want help with your business or peak performance coaching Him and Emilia do relationship talks coaching as well . That's a thing . There's a lot of stuff , so we'll put as much of that in the show notes as possible . If not , everything will be on nextleveluniversecom . As always , we love you , we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you , and at NLU we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow .

Speaker 2

Please reach out . Boom Strong , work man .

Speaker 1

Oh brutal .

Speaker 2

It was good .

Speaker 1

Well , it's hard when you still don't know .

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host