Next Level University

#1808 - Motivation Isn’t What We Thought It Was…

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Have you ever wondered why some days you feel unstoppable and others you can barely get out of bed? In this episode, Kevin and Alan break down the truth about motivation—what it is and why it’s not the magic bullet you might think. They share their struggles with staying motivated, revealing that it’s not about constant drive but about creating the right environment and accountability. Learn how fear, responsibility, and embarrassment keep you on track when motivation fades.

Links mentioned:
Free 30-Minute Podcast Breakthrough Session with Kevin:
https://calendly.com/kevinpalmieri/free-30-minute-podcast-breakthrough-session-with-kevin?month=2024-08
Alan’s Coaching: Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:22) New perspective on motivation
(6:26) Motivation is a motion and a supplement
(10:19) The role of environment and accountability in staying consistent
(14:03) Fear and embarrassment as powerful motivators
(23:12) Meet like-minded people and jumpstart your journey to achieving your dreams while op

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Speaker 1

Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1808, motivation isn't what we thought it was. Alan and I were talking excuse me, my voice is Jeffed I'm riding the struggle bus this morning.

Speaker 1

Alan and I were talking before this episode and we were talking about how we have the Next Level Fitness Accountability Group. That is, a WhatsApp group with the aim of helping people stay motivated and inspired and more consistent, more accountable ultimately. And I told Alan, I said I'm struggling this week, but today especially, but this week, because I feel like I am struggling with fitness just because I'm going through what we talked about yesterday, whatever this down swing is, and it's really hard to pretend that you're super motivated and then jump in a group and then motivate other people. And then alan said don't worry, man, I got it. I said no, no, it's not, I'm not, I'm not looking to to get rid of it I'm just saying yeah, I'm not looking to pass the of it.

Speaker 1

Pass the buck. Yeah, I'm not looking to pass the buck. I'm just saying I understand why motivation is hard for people. Because, number one, it's fleeting. Number two, so many things have to line up for you to be super motivated to do something. Your state has to be lined up, your circumstances have to be lined up.

Speaker 2

Caffeine so much.

Speaker 1

Caffeine helps. Your state has to be lined up. Your circumstances have to be lined up. So much caffeine. Caffeine helps just a lot of things. A lot of things have to line up. It's very easy to set a goal and make a plan when you're motivated, but 99 of the time you're going to be doing the, the journey after you did that. That's only one step, that's. It's a big step, it's a really big step. But it doesn't really matter how motivated you are when you make the plan. It matters how motivated you can be for the rest of the journey. So we figured we'd do an episode on on motivation and our new kind of perspective on it.

Speaker 2

Motivation, something we used to talk about all the time, way back in the Hyperconscious Podcast days. It was one of those hot topics that we used to have the five-second rule that we used to use, or ten-second rule or whatever, where you'd count down from ten in the shower and then get out, because no one wants to get out of a warm shower in the morning.

Speaker 1

And I don't know you Unless I'm hopping in my cold plunge. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2

As you grow and evolve in a certain journey, you it's almost like certain things that you used to struggle with become. There's four stages to sort of mastery. There's unconscious competence no, this is going to be a struggle Unconscious incompetence, which means you don't know that you suck at something. Then there's conscious incompetence, which now you know you suck. Then there's conscious competence, where now you know you're getting better, which I think is kind of where we were for a while in the beginning of podcasting. We were trying to get better at motivation and now we're unconsciously competent. You and I don't struggle a ton with motivation. I know you say you do probably more than me, but ultimately I definitely do more than you, for sure.

Speaker 2

What this episode is, and maybe it's not a series, but just in my mind it's go back to a topic we used to talk about all the time and figure out what our new take on it is. So, kev, the beginning, what did you think motivation was, versus what you think now?

Speaker 1

I thought it was a movie montage where somebody goes from the underdog loser to the champion in five minutes. I thought that was motivation. I thought motivation was daily gasoline. Daily gasoline that is the fuel in your tank that gets you to the goal that day. I thought that's what motivation was, and it is far more fleeting than I ever realized. You can start the day because I had, alan's, been doing a morning mindset workout that I think ended up being just a mindset workout.

Speaker 2

I don't know if it's always in the morning anymore, but I know you still do it yeah, it's not always in the morning, so I won't call it a morning, it's a daily mindset workout I had my own little version for a while and then it was like, honestly, I don't think this is doing anything.

Speaker 1

I had videos. Have you ever seen?

Speaker 2

Oh my goodness, what is the movie? Honestly, I don't think this is doing anything. What is the movie?

Speaker 1

You might not know, al Pacino is a football coach. It's one of the most inspirational movie scenes of all time. I honestly don't know the name of the movie.

Speaker 2

I know the speech you're talking about.

Speaker 1

I have that on my phone, yeah, and I would listen to that in the morning. And that you want to talk about fired up? Yeah, that was good, right, what is it? Inch by inch, we crawl. Whatever, it's amazing.

Speaker 1

It's an amazing, yeah, an amazing speech al pacino, but after after like three weeks of that I was like I don't really think this is doing it anymore. So I don't know. I think when you're at, this is what I would say. I think when you're at a certain place, let's say you're less motivated than normal. Let's say you're less motivated than normal. I think something motivational, a motivational song, a motivational video can get you more in the zone. But the truth is it's really only going to help you start. It's not going to. I used to have there's a song by a band that I love. The band is Bullet For my Valentine. The song is called hearts burst into fire. Band names are so interesting to me, so interesting right, I used to listen to this song back when I worked out. So I used when I used to live in uxbridge, I used to work out in whitensville at what was blackstone valley massage and fitness. Yeah, that was a. That was a good one.

Speaker 1

I would listen to the same exact song, walking into that gym every single time. Every single time I walked into that gym, I listened to the same song.

Speaker 2

What are you listening to these days? Just super curious. A little bit of a side tangent.

Speaker 1

I mean, I'm all over the place. I've been listening to my Spotify, wrapped from 2018. Nice, that's what I've been listening to Amy on.

Motivation is a motion and a supplement

Speaker 2

the team has a playlist called Up a Level Rock. First she said hey, you listen to rock in the gym. I heard you on the podcast. I don't know what we were talking about, but probably something useless. And she said I have a playlist I think you'd like. And then she started listening to it. And she started envisioning me in my workouts listening to her playlist and she got embarrassed. She's like no, that ain't it, that ain't it. This is the one it's called upper level rock dude. Every time I put this on, no, no, you can't do that you can't play it, we'll get, we'll get.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you can't play, you can for 10 seconds, can't you? I don't know, I don't know what it is I don't want 10 seconds, of course.

Speaker 2

No, I don't think it is okay. It's sound boy killer by pod that's a banger man pod throwback.

Speaker 1

You know they were. I didn't know they were a christian band. I mean either man. Well, you know, I mean a hard rock band like that. It's like I'm sure you guys are up to some wild stuff on the weekends. I don't think so. I don't think they were. In fact that's a great song to start.

Speaker 2

I like it gets me motivated as hell yeah well, I think that's.

Speaker 1

the other thing, too is sometimes motivation is emotion. I listen to acoustic music in the gym, depending on the day, because it's I just want something that's going to make me emotional. Same, but I, I really, um, I just don't think that motivation is enough. I I think motivation is a supplement. I think if you want to be the most consistent version of yourself, you design your environment to be the most consistent version of yourself. You build in accountability, you set goals and fear chase at the right level. You have bouts of motivation, you have lots of inspiration, you have check-ins, you have peak performance partners. I think motivation is a supplement. I'm willing to bet that if you are in an accountability group and you have no external motivation, you will be more successful than if you are by yourself with a lot of motivation. I would venture to guess that.

Speaker 2

I sat down with team member Brandon years ago. This is actually before group coaching. Brandon's been on the team, I think, five years, something like that here we go.

Speaker 1

Every time it's different. Brandon's been on the team for 36 years. Even that old time keeps going, brother, time does keep going. Time keeps going. So now it's as much as we try to make it stop I'm always plus or minus one year.

Speaker 2

I'm allowed to be a percent error that's you know.

Speaker 1

This isn't nasa, it's a big percent error yeah, percent plus or minus 20, right?

Speaker 2

so I remember talking to him about when he was the most dialed in. I ask this question all the time to my clients when were you the most fulfilled? And then usually they tell me the time and then I say when were you the most dialed in? And almost every time it's probably every time it's the same time. Yeah, it's interesting to say out loud, actually, but when we the most dial. And he said dude, when I was trying to play college football, that was the last time I was just dialed in at level 10. And then I took him through, I pulled up zoom, put brandon in the center and I put a bunch of bubbles around him and I put all the things Okay, you had a head coach, you had defensive coach, offensive coach, you had your dad was there at the games, your family was watching you, you had practices during the week, games every Sunday.

The role of environment and accountability in staying consistent

Speaker 2

There was just so much accountability. You didn't want to let the team down. You were team captain, so you had a leadership responsibility. That's motivation. One of the reasons you and I don't struggle with motivation is because it's not really motivation anymore. It's more necessity, it's more accountability, it's more the team is relying on us. It's much deeper than that and I think this is.

Speaker 2

And again, I don't have kids. So anyone who does have kids tell me. If this is, you know, send me a message, let me know. If this is. And again, I don't have kids. So anyone who does have kids tell me. If this is, you know, send me a message, let me know. If this is accurate, I feel like when I do have children, it'll probably be even more. I'll have less time by a significant margin. So I understand that. But the responsibility will probably increase inside of me, like the responsibility to create a great home, build our dreams, make sure we have enough money. It's more of a responsibility nowadays. In the beginning, dude, when it was just you and me and our bills were fairly low, all things considered, and we had money in the bank, there wasn't a lot of necessity. It was kind of let's podcast and see how this goes.

Speaker 2

And it was like a couple young mid-20s. Yeah, it was like it wasn't, because you and I were always kind of all in when it comes to not missing yeah, yeah, but it but not the responsibility, this yeah compared to this. It was, it was a hobby, yeah, and now it's. If you don't perform consistently, the business will eventually die. I mean, that's actually what motivates me more than anything. Well, I think that's the real.

Speaker 1

I think it's very hard, because that's the thing is. I think when people look at motivation, they think of stuff that makes you feel good, that makes you move, when, in reality, sometimes the best motivation depending on who you are, because Alan and I are very different in this, but sometimes the best motivation is to look at the truth, the actual, terrifying truth of what will happen if you don't do what you're supposed to. And I'm not saying that's healthy, I'm not saying that's the best way for everyone, I don't know. Again, this is why it's always hard to talk on a public medium. But was I motivated when I was doing bodybuilding? No, I was terrified that I was going to get on stage and embarrass myself. That's. That is what motive. I did not. It was not the trophy that motivated me. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1

I do not want to make a fool of myself when I prep for speeches. It's never been. It is now more than prep for speeches. It's never been. It is now more than ever, but it's never been. I want to blow the audience away? Nope, I just don't want to look like a freaking idiot. How do I make sure that I at least have a somewhat positive view from the audience. The fear usually motivates me more than but the problem is I'm not fulfilled when I do it that way. That's the hard thing. Maybe that's a deeper conversation.

Speaker 2

Well, I think fulfillment is a long-term motivator. I think short-term it needs to be my back is up against the wall, type of thing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but when does?

Speaker 2

it cross over?

Speaker 1

I know, I don't know if it ever does so, then how do you ever get fulfilled in the process? I think that's the thing.

Speaker 2

Well, I think what we found, and Kevin and I, we did an interview with a man named Stephen Kotler, episode 600-something, 603 or something.

Speaker 1

I honestly don't know the number. I need to stop quoting. Yeah, you're always, so I'm always off. I thought it was 400, 600.

Speaker 2

I don't know, if you go to YouTube Next Level University, stephen Kotler, k-o-t-l-e-r, it'll come up, but he wrote a book called the Art of Impossible. I've been plugging it a lot. It's one of my favorite books of all time. We did it in book club. It's just so good. It's so good.

Fear and embarrassment as powerful motivators

Speaker 2

And it's the neurobiology of motivation. He talks about the brain chemistry. He talks about why not having goals is actually bad for us biologically. What was I talking about? Oh yeah, and in that interview Stephen essentially said to Kevin and I it's so fascinating because most people need to be 4% outside their comfort zone in order to hit a flow state and to be motivated. And he said that about you. He said, because you and I were kind of high level back then, talking, I don't know, whenever I'm ignited, kevin's not, and whenever Kevin's ignited, I'm not. And so what we've found is that when I'm outside my comfort zone enough to be ignited and fully engaged and fully motivated, kevin is basically having a panic attack. I'm kidding, but in some cases that actually did happen, and steven kotler said that actually makes a lot of sense. So alan is of the small percentage of people who need to be 40 outside their comfort zone in order to be fully engaged I think it's even higher.

Speaker 1

Honestly, I don't think 40 is enough. I think it's higher for you for sure yeah, for sure, yeah, for sure, okay, I don't know what number or what I would equate it to, but there's no way.

Speaker 1

it's just 40%. There's no way. We were talking yesterday and Alan was talking about a potential speaking training opportunity that's coming up soon and he's like dude, worst case scenario I go and I absolutely bomb and I learn a ton of lessons. And he's like laughing about it and happy and I said dude, you're a strange individual. The fact that that's like your default. Yeah, I mean, this is the worst case scenario. It'd still be pretty awesome. No, no, that's not. I don't think. That's 40%.

Speaker 2

I think I said worst case scenario I get laughed out of the building but I get more motivated and I learn a lot.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I've been laughed out of the building with you. I've seen it, yeah it was terrible.

Speaker 1

Unfortunately, I was part of it, yeah.

Speaker 2

The truth, though, is that was a really good lesson for me, because I'll never do a training like that again. I mean, that was just brutal. It was just brutal.

Speaker 1

That was terrible. It wasn't great.

Speaker 2

Okay, so yeah, maybe it's more. I think so. That's an unfortunate thing, because when we're business partners, I have to, and this is what we're going to do from now on. We're going to get into enough abundance to where Kevin is fully ignited, and then I'm going to manufacture scarcity. We'll just take, take.

Speaker 1

Alan's money. Yeah, I'm going to hang on to Alan's money.

Speaker 2

I'll put it in. I'll put it in a bunker out back and pretend that I'm broke. I just. I think 40% outside my comfort zone is probably just a lot Like yeah.

Speaker 2

Depending on what arena. Obviously, if I'm doing something I suck at, 40% outside my comfort zone is probably just playing tennis at all, Right, but in speaking or training or podcasting or our business, 40% outside my comfort zone is probably alarmingly scary. Uh, and for anyone out there watching or listening, figure out which one you are. I was on the on the mic. I was on a podcast yesterday with a guy named mike, who kev told me in advance. I'm very intrigued and, by the way, you confuse the hell out of me when you do this. This is like a conversation. Okay, if you're on youtube right now. You just saw him get very concerned.

Speaker 2

This is a conversation I planned on having offline, but we don't have enough time, so we gotta do it on air. Let's do it. I get confused. When you do that, you always be. I'm very intrigued to see how you handle this person. It's like, dude, you could have told me you're gonna love him that would have been tell you I 100 said you're gonna love him you did. Yeah, I don't feel like you did.

Speaker 1

I thought I thought I was gonna butt heads with no, I said he's super curious and he asks really good questions.

Speaker 2

You said he's super, super confident and which is super confident, for sure but sometimes people who are confident are cocky and I butt heads with them the.

Speaker 1

The reason I said I was intrigued is because number one, he was a client, so I I know, I know him better than than you would oh yeah, you did say that.

Speaker 2

I thought I was on his yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1

So that's what else you? How long was he a client for? We launched him, we helped him launch and then we did the first four episodes, no kidding. So yeah, we, we helped him create it cool. But I knew I think my frame was he's super confident, but him and I get along really well, so I'm curious to see what your experience is. I think that was kind of the frame.

Speaker 2

He stopped the interview and I'll make this relevant to the topic in a second. He stopped the interview and he said nothing against Kevin, but this is the best interview I've ever done.

Speaker 1

You had to put that in there, huh, whatever.

Speaker 2

You had to put that in there, huh, and whatever, uh, the. The point is, though, is he is someone who, I think, needs to be 40 outside. I really believe that I could just tell he's extremely to your point, confident, but he's, he's an engineer, so he, he just isn't challenged enough. If I was coaching him, it would not be anything other than dude, come on, what the fuck are we doing here? That does not work.

Speaker 2

I'm coaching a married couple shout out to both of you, by the way, super, super excited about this, and it's fascinating, because the male in the relationship came to me and said I don't feel like I'm a good coach for her, and I said well, first of all, you're her husband, so that's probably a weird hat to put on. Sometimes it's not easy, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't, so keep it up. But he said you've been doing this longer, like you do with that, and it's not from a toxic place at all. They're like, they have one of the best relationships. I'm so impressed by them, but anyways. So I told, told him I'm not going to coach her at all the way I coach you.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, he's a 40 percenter. Like. I'm not impressed, dude, what are we doing here? Let's go. That's not how I coach. When someone is, hey, I'm really struggling and I don't feel like I can, you have to coach everyone very differently depending on which bucket they're in, and so if you're out there, try to identify are you four percent outside your comfort zone means you're ignited, and a little bit of fear is good, but not a lot, or is it? You basically have to have your back against the wall and be completely just. We are screwed if I don't find a way to make this happen.

Speaker 1

I do know my Wi-Fi is juffing, so no worries.

Speaker 2

I haven't seen any issues.

Speaker 1

I have the status bar in the top top left so it shows when my internet's wonky I don't know my internet's wonky today, I think it's dangerous somebody so I often get asked on podcasts how do you stay motivated all the time? And I usually don't let him finish the question. I don't, I don't, I do not stay motivated all the time. I have a very real conversation with myself that probably it might resonate with some of you it might not, I don't know that either I do what it takes to accomplish the goal or I do not get to complain about the fact that I do not accomplish the goal when it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1

That's just a very honest conversation I have with myself and I think that's one of the reasons that when I get out of shape, I'm fairly aware of it because I know I'm not doing what it takes to stay in shape. And when I yeah, when I'm not doing what I know I should be doing, I'm fairly. I take ownership fairly quickly because I know I'm screwing up. So it's not to your point. It's not about being motivated, it's about knowing that if you don't do what you're supposed to do, you're not going to get the goal and it's going to be even harder to be motivated because you're going to feel like you're going backwards.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and you'll be embarrassed and you'll be seen as a hypocrite if you told people about your goal yeah I always use the analogy of two people want to run every day for their good health. One person signs up for a half marathon in six months, invites their friends and family, tells everyone on Facebook, and the other person just wants to run but never tells anyone. The first person is going to be more quote unquote motivated. Neither one of them is going to be motivated, but the first person is not going to let themselves.

Speaker 1

But how much confidence does it take to be the first person? I know that is so interesting, that's so true, Even that you're telling all your friends, you're signing up for it, you're posting on social media about it. That requires such a high level of self-belief.

Meet like-minded people and jumpstart your journey to achieving your dreams while optimizing your life. Join Next Level Group Coaching.

Speaker 2

It's almost like that's the conundrum I think a lot of people are stuck in is I don't have enough self-belief to state to the world that I'm going to do something. But the only way I would ever actually be motivated believe it or not is the fear of embarrassment. I was when I told everyone about my fitness shows. I was really motivated by the fact that, especially after losing my first one, I got stomped at my first one. So I was so motivated for the second one. I got a posing coach. I had multiple coaches. I check-ins every week. I was so humbled by getting stomped in front of all my friends and family that I just did everything I could and I came. That was the best shape I've ever been in to this day. But it was because of coming off of some such embarrassment. But I never really thought about how much confidence it takes to say, hey, I'm gonna win the show, because the first one I said I'd win and then I got fifth and then after that I said I'd win and I'm not not winning this time. I cannot take that social embarrassment again. I mean there was an after party. Imagine going to an after party when you thought you'd get first and you're sitting there with the fifth place trophy. I'm lucky, I even got a trophy and you're just sitting there going, mm-hmm, I even got a trophy and you're just sitting there going, mm-hmm, let's celebrate. Yeah, let's celebrate.

Speaker 2

And so the confidence that it takes to actually set that public goal is actually what is going to drive you. I think a lot of that is what drives people, but unfortunately, you're not going to set it publicly. Most people are afraid to post certain things on social media like, hey, I'm doing a 30-day challenge, hey, I'm going to lose 10 pounds. I mean, dude, 10 pounds in 10 weeks. Think about the level of confidence you and I have to have and our own abilities to even set that goal. And I did 11.4 pounds in nine weeks this time, coming off of an embarrassing having to do a marathon on a whim to dehydrate, off of an embarrassing having to do a marathon on a whim to dehydrate. So, like, the amount of confidence you have to have in order to put yourself in a corner like that is very, very high, but I was motivated as hell to hit my mark I'm I mean far less motivated right now.

Speaker 1

I'm still doing, I'm trying to go down to 165. It is five times harder.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Five, at least five times harder.

Speaker 2

When I get back to 190, I want to go down to 180. We almost might have to do it again.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I hated it. We're going to have to do it again. Yeah, I hated it.

Speaker 2

There were times when I was like I can't do that again. We got to focus on business goals, man.

Speaker 1

The fact of the matter is it works so well we don't want to do it again. That's the thing. It works so freaking well that we know if we sign up for it, we'll actually accomplish the goal and we'll do all the stuff required to accomplish the goal.

Speaker 2

That sucks yeah, and that's the, that's what real motivation is that?

Speaker 1

is what real motivation is. Yeah, real motivation is. I know this will force me to do it. Yep, I know that it will become a priority and I will do things in alignment with accomplishing the goal. The hard part is that's not always what's best. That might not be what's best, depending on what's going on. Depending on yeah, it might be destructive, not constructive.

Speaker 2

So you have to make sure you're in a place where that's because, maybe at the beginning of when we said that we were in a good spot, and then, all of a sudden, you have a tough month or something happens in your relationship or your home or your family and then mental health, and then all of a sudden, oh no, no, this is not good for me anymore. But now you're committed socially and now it's even worse to be embarrassed and and quit and we said that in the group too.

Speaker 1

Don't. Don't set don't just because Alan and I are doing 10 pounds in 10 weeks, don't feel like you have to.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because we're setting that goal, because we know we can do it. That's not a stretch goal, that is a we can do that and especially with the accountability of the group and us leading the group, it's done, it's already done, it's just a matter of how bad it's going to suck. I don't want anybody else to say, well, this would be a really good stretch goal for me, let me try and then crash and burn. I don't want that. I want it to be a constructive, positive experience that leads to the results.

Speaker 2

Yeah, what's the right amount of necessity? What's the right amount of necessity? You have to be a little bit under the pressure. You have to be, but it can't be so much that it crushes you.

The right amount of pressure to avoid burnout

Speaker 2

That's the yeah that's why life's so hard, because you put yourself in the right amount of pressure and you're like this is working, hell yeah, let's rock and roll. And then life comes and all of a sudden it throws another rock on your back and now you're on on a deconstructive, a destructive amount of pressure. And then you have to figure out and unlock a new level inside of you. I mean, that's always what I was able to do whenever life got really hard. And then you look back and go, wow, if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have hit this new level. But I don't know if that's true for everybody. Maybe that's a belief thing, I don't know.

Speaker 1

I think it takes longer, probably Because I can look back now and say, okay, that season was a really good season of growth, but in the time I didn't think I was going to. I don't want to say I didn't think I was going to make it, I didn't know how I was going to get through. And now I look back and it's like, okay, that makes sense, there's a lot going on, but I definitely leveled up a lot, but in the in the moment, it's really hard to know that.

Speaker 2

Right now I'm going through one of those like there's a lot, there's a lot going on and then you only hear from the people who make it out of that, rather than that be their new norm for life, right? So, yeah, that's the other piece of this, too. How many, how many success stories do you hear on podcasts where people were in the deep dark hole and they climbed out and built a skyscraper metaphorically but how many people are still in the deep dark hole that end up crawling into a bottle or drugs.

Speaker 1

That's why I like talking about it, because would it be really motivational to hear an episode and say, yeah, I was struggling really bad, and then I did these four things and now I'm on fire again? Sure, but is that going to help anybody? I don't know. I don't know because that's not the whole truth. That's not the whole truth.

Speaker 2

As somebody.

Speaker 1

I was on a podcast yesterday, a really good podcast with a really good, really good human, and we were talking about something and I was talking about how I can kind of I can basically count on on one hand two hands max how many mental health, depression struggles I've had since I left my job, and I said honestly, I'm going through one right now and I was just talking about it because I think it's important I don't yeah I don't know, because I would be curious to hear the stats around business owners, entrepreneurs, people trying to start their own thing yeah, let's just put it dream chasers trying to start their I don't know, because someone else might be going through it too.

Speaker 2

I would be curious to hear the stats around business owners, entrepreneurs, people trying to start their own thing yeah, let's just put it Dream chasers trying to start their own thing. I would be so curious. The stats of mental health challenges that come with that. It's got to be high. It's got to be high, yeah, it's got to be high. Because you just don't have any certainty. You just lose your certainty, which creates all kinds of you know, your scaffolding gets ripped out from under you kind of in a way Real quick.

Speaker 2

I know we got to go, but I'm reading a book on motivation right now. Coach Michael Burke, kevin and I saw him speak. We were supposed to see a different speaker. We ended up seeing him, we interviewed him. We both now keep in mind he's very, very, very intense, but we've found him to be really accurate and truthful and and I I enjoy his, his work. So he wrote a book called prey drive and it's all about motivation and he broke down the top 20 motivational theories and he talked about and he figured out there's five triggers of prey drive, which is just drive, let's just call it drive. And I I do agree with these five because these have definitely triggered me to be driven as hell and I didn't realize what was doing that.

Mental challenges, motivation triggers, and drive

Speaker 2

But the first one's fear. And remember the right amount of fear, 40 versus four percent, right, but you got to be fear, fearful of losing the show at least a little bit, at least enough to get it done right. Uh. Number two is environment. The people you're around put posters up. I used to have posters up of a fitness model named Greg Plitt, who RIP, but that was the physique that I was going for and that motivated the hell out of me. And then you've got exposure. So travel. I know Emilia and I went to an estate once that inspired the hell out of me and I was so motivated after that because we want to have land and a big home. And then, uh, you've got two more. One is embarrassment. We already talked about it fear of embarrassment, but also being embarrassed like getting laughed out of that. Training definitely motivated me to never let that happen again I'll never let me I'll never.

Speaker 2

That's probably because it was way too much. That was way more than 40%.

Speaker 1

I'll tell you what.

Speaker 2

That was 100%. That was bad. And then the last one I don't have my dreamlander next to me. What was the last one? Fear, embarrassment, exposure.

Speaker 1

Environment.

Speaker 2

There's one more. Oh no, oh no. Fear, environment, exposure, embarrassment, I don't know. The one more. I really don't, I really don't, brother, that's unfortunate.

Speaker 1

You really effed up man. Hold on, hold on, I got this. Anytime Alan starts reciting something from memory, that's like more than three things, I always get very nervous for him. I got this, remember, at the first speech you and I did together. You tried, it was competition, competition. Remember you tried to to do a les brown quote from memory and you missed an entire part of it and just skipped over it because no one even knew yeah man dude, I used to do things like that competition, okay.

Speaker 2

So competition, yeah. How could I forget that one? I used to play video games, competitive gaming, only because I was so motivated, so driven, yeah what's your order?

Speaker 1

what's your order? What's which of those motivates you the most? Because I don't really resonate with embarrassment probably embarrassment.

Speaker 2

That's the one that motivates you the most, because I don't really resonate with them. Embarrassment.

Speaker 1

Probably embarrassment. That's the one that motivates you the most.

Speaker 2

I would say letting down someone I love.

Speaker 1

Disappointment.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that Letting Emilia down, I mean it's just no way.

Speaker 1

There's no way, see, we're missing. Let's just grind. That's one that needs to be on there. Agreed, yeah.

Speaker 2

Letting Emilia down. I mean it's not going to happen, let's go. Yeah. And when he says pray, drive, you can see a different version of me come out, and I've seen that in you too. Yeah, when you couldn't buy Christmas presents for Taryn, I'm always trying to unlock that in you and me and the whole team. What is a leader? You? You unlock people's potential. That's. That's what we're always trying to do, and dude fear of letting emilia down drives me way more than I want to be more successful I mean they're way more. It has to be connected to someone you love or something you love.

Speaker 1

Losing something or someone you love, there's nothing more motivating One of the reasons I grew as much as I did is because I didn't want to disappoint you For sure. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I think that's why I got good at speaking.

Speaker 2

Do we need to jack that up again? Well, you've disappointed me so much that, for me, I know that I have plenty. That's the problem. There's a lot. No, no, you know, it's still there. It's still there For sure. It didn't exactly work at Podcast Movement. Huh, no, no. Well, I think it's because I— you know what it is. You knew I'd be fine with it. It's funny.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, happen regardless. And honestly the thing was, even if you were, I knew you'd understand, because that's the thing is you can be disappointed and supportive at the same time yeah, I think, I think I am a little, but not really, I don't know.

Speaker 2

I'm disappointed in you and me in general and as hardcore as that just sounded out loud, I'm so proud of us for so much. Right, I am okay, let's say it's 80, impressed and blown away and go us. That's not the 80 that needs to change, the. The 20 that needs to change is the is what gets the focus, so that's a whole another episode. But there's always going to be a percentage that I'm disappointed in us. I mean how? I mean, dude, we made so mistakes, we just have to get better. I don't know what to tell you. Like, what are we going to do? Just, oh, go us, we're awesome. Like that's useless because we have to go get better.

Speaker 2

You know we've gotten 22-person team, 1,800 episodes, million dollars, million listens. That is awesome. I agree, that's unbelievable. That's top. 1% of 1% of 1%. I'm proud of us for all of that. And we are not even close to the men we need to be in order to achieve the next level and I think that when you have a life that's built on next level, it's very hard to ever be sort of resting on any sort of laurels and we never get complacent and I know that I'm a big driver in that and I'm sure disappointment it's not disappointed in a toxic way and I try really hard to make sure that's the case. But I got to. Yeah, of course I'm disappointed with some of our stupid choices.

Speaker 1

For sure it's not disappointment of the person, it's disappointment of the behavior versus the intended goals or intended results.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and we just weren't as intelligent as I wish we were, and I think I'll feel that way forever. Right, and when we're 45, we're going to look back and go, wow, at 35 we were kind of idiots. That's interesting and not statistically. Statistically we'll say, wow, we actually I mean you and I have looked back at the beginning of our podcast journey and while there's the long list of things we made mistakes on, there's also a few things we did really freaking well.

Speaker 1

Well, there was a lot of things we did really well.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

But there's a lot of things we did terribly.

Speaker 2

That's not a list we have to change, right yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1

Interesting episode.

Speaker 2

Are we going to do the next one?

Speaker 1

Absolutely, we're not no.

Speaker 2

That's what we were doing with Biden time?

Speaker 1

Well, no, there's always. I'll take you behind the scenes. There's always a moment where I look at my timer and it's like all right, cool, we're not doing two episodes, we're just gonna stay here and see what grows from this episode I just wish I wish I had known, because I've been slowly bottling it up to get on to the next episode for the last 15 minutes probably. I know I probably didn't see it bottling it up.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we're talking about motivation and drive. Man, this is my jam.

Speaker 1

Well that's why I figured I'd rather do a 40-minute valuable episode than an 18-minute rushed one.

Speaker 2

Agreed. I would say drive is something. I've always been on the higher end of People who aren't driven. You're leaving so much on the table. There's so much more you're capable of?

Speaker 1

Yeah, but that doesn't land. That doesn't land. But all the things they want much on the table. There's so much more you're capable of.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but that doesn't land, that doesn't land, but all the things they want are on the other side of drive.

Reverse engineering success

Speaker 1

Tell me how to get driven. That's what we just did, I know, but none of that really, the disappointment resonates for sure, but other than that, I'm afraid of life. Fear, of course. Fear motivates me, but not in the way it motivates you. I'm more afraid of life than you are, so it's I'm already afraid. So, like that's, that's one. I mean environment, yeah, but environment it requires confidence to get around people that intimidate you and that require. Michael burt has 10 out of 10 self-belief. Yeah, he doesn't understand what it's like to be an emotionally driven person who's afraid of that's very clear so that's why it's always, it's always been well that's why you have to do this.

Speaker 2

Like what? What motivates you? Like, how did you stay driven? How do you stay driven?

Speaker 1

disappointment's a big one, that's a big one. Stay driven. Disappointment's a big one, that's a big one. Man, I some Honestly my chair. Hire a coach. Hire a coach, Alan. I've had a coach since the beginning. You, you've been coaching me since the beginning. If I was by myself I would have gone off the fucking rails.

Speaker 2

I really appreciate that honesty. I don't because it sucks. No, I'm kidding, no, but is that?

Speaker 1

I think that's the truth.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I think that's a big part of it is I never would have won the bodybuilding show if I didn't have a coach. I had a coach. Just tell me what to do and I'll do it, because I really want to win, I do, I want to succeed, I want the things that I say I want and if I don't, I'll tell you. Oh yeah, based on the fact that I have to do this and I didn't think I was going to have to, I kind of want to change the goal. I didn't do the second show because I knew what it was going to take if I wanted to do the second show. I think that is if, by definition, I am, and I don't know if I would consider myself a people pleaser, because sometimes, but other times it's like the opposite.

Speaker 2

I don't know yeah it's confusing as hell.

Speaker 1

It's weird, but as an emotionally driven person who will do more for others than he will do for himself, I have to find a coach who makes me do it for me, even though it seems like it's for them.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And that's a superpower. Some of my clients that went from monthly to bi-weekly to weekly. I know that that's part of it. It's just you just stay. It's like a Mario Kart booster every week.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

The importance of having a coach or mentor for guidance

Speaker 2

One of my clients has been working with her for five years and she's been monthly. At times she's taken three months off here and then she's done biweekly and then eventually it was just let's just do this weekly, let's rock, let's go. I said, if you look back the last five years, what made the biggest difference? Like, write a list out You've achieved freaking what 50 goals that you've set. What made the difference? I'm going to be at the top of every one of those lists. I'm not trying to be cocky. I'm saying why are we doing bi-weekly? What are we doing here? Let's go like how much better are you going to be when, every single week, I'm on you?

Speaker 2

well, I'm sure that's part of why you didn't want to lose monday too, because I've been on you every monday for seven years.

Speaker 1

It's a piece of it, yeah, and there's a piece of me that just doesn't want to change. It's like I like that. I like starting Monday off with deep meetings. I enjoy that. Yeah, same, I enjoy that. But I've been saying this to you for a long time it's going to be very hard for anybody else to ever get the level of results I've gotten with you, because nobody is nobody will ever be able to work with you as much as I have. I already have a lead. I had a two-year lead before you started coaching anybody, or a year at least yeah, for sure, and I'm with you more than anybody else yeah.

Speaker 1

So it's going to be really hard for anybody else to. And again, I'm not not from a comparison standpoint, but just because I have so much time with you. So that's yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2

I don't know what it is because I've never been coached by me. But, emilia, I had a moment we were driving to. We went on a mini adventure this past weekend. We went to a place long pond long pond. I looked it up on all trails. 4.7 is the rating. It was where. Where is it round? It's called long pond, is the rating. It was awesome. Where is it Rhode Island? It's called Long Pond. That sounds familiar. Yeah, it was awesome. It was really good. At first I thought it was going to suck the trailhead was terrible, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2

How bad can it be? We got to jump, yeah, but I said it's been a while since we've been in that setting. And then we canned that and that's okay, that's actually good. That was. It was no longer aligned, not in a negative way, but just life.

Speaker 2

And then I we had a business conversation and we were talking metrics and I said in the on the drive I said I think I should coach you on business again because she teaches me all the relationship stuff and all the inner work and all that all the time. I mean she, she, she shares her genius zone with me all the time and we have a podcast that's built on that and all that. And she said she was frustrated. She said I've been asking for that for years and it's well, I do coach you throughout. Like it's not like the first time we've ever sat in front of a whiteboard. It's just not official. It's not like we have an hour a week or whatever. Right, so but ultimately I I would love to understand from my clients what, what are you actually getting? I don't think I've ever broken that out. What is it motivating? Is it mario kart booster, is it? I would love to understand.

Speaker 1

Maybe I'll start asking yeah, well, I'm happy to give you a list at some point. Yeah, man, I appreciate it. I think my experience is probably different, like what would you not have?

Speaker 2

what are you getting from me that you never got anywhere else? That? That would be a really cool list for me to understand.

Speaker 1

Guidance, certainty and accountability. Knowledge, knowledge, guidance, certainty and accountability. I told you this behind the scenes. It's very, it's very hard for me to know we're going to win. It's weird. I'm not worried about whether or not we're going to succeed. Zero percent, I'm not worried at all. To an alarming extent, just like yeah, no, I trust you, we're good, cool. Does it suck in the interim, in the moment? Yeah, often, oftentimes, it sucks, for sure, but the suck now is not as bad as the suck used to be.

Speaker 2

So it's just a reverse engineered success. Yeah, the success engineer is what you called me yesterday. Yeah, we have mathematical certainty that we'll succeed.

Speaker 1

You have mathematical certainty. I just trust it, that's, but I'll think more of it.

Speaker 1

All right, we gotta go because you have another call and I want to help you continue your on-time streak. If you're looking for a coach who can help you reverse engineer success, alan is the guy for sure. I told him. I said I know you're going to have a podcast called Business Growth University, but if you didn't, it should be called Engineering Success, because that would be a really good title. And if you don't know, if you want a podcast, whatever, we can jam on what it might look like and all that happy jazz, as always. We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Please reach out.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host