Next Level University

You’ve Chosen The Harder Road And You Should Be Proud (1897)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What’s the cost of real growth? Kevin and Alan discuss why choosing the more challenging road isn’t just about sacrifice—it’s about transformation. They share personal stories, relatable struggles, and practical advice to help you build habits, improve awareness, and face the hard truths that lead to empowerment. Tune in to gain a fresh perspective on how resistance fuels growth and why the journey is worth it.

Links mentioned:
Next Level Dreamliner: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
Free-30 Minute Coaching Call with Alan: https://bit.ly/4f3MSUz

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level 5 To Thrive (free course) - ​​https://bit.ly/3xffver
Next Level U Book Club - https://bit.ly/3BQBYDr
Next Level Monthly Meet-up:  https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/monthly-meetups/

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(5:02) Choosing the harder road: What it looks like
(6:40) The law of trade-offs explained
(19:49) Cognitive distortions and accurate thinking
(27:05) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(30:40) Building confidence and competence through iteration
(32:56) The learning loop: A tool for continuous improvement
(42:02) Long-term growth Vs. Short-term comfort
(46:00) Truth, empowerment, and facing complex realities
(48:27) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

you wake up and you say , oh yeah , I must have drifted off . You don't feel yourself drifting , or you do , but you don't know that you're asleep . I think sometimes there's pieces of growth that are like that you don't really know you're growing through something until you're all the way through it , and then you say , oh wow , things feel different now .

Alan Lazaros

I thought I had high self-worth . I actually had low . I didn't know low self-belief was a thing because everyone pretended to have it . Now I just feel like we understand so much more than we used to . We're less ignorant . We're so much less ignorant and that is so powerful .

Kevin Palmieri

You cannot manifest your dreams if you're ignorant , welcome to Next Level University . I'm your host , kevin Palmieri , and I'm your co-host , alan Lazarus . At NLU , we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers .

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life love health and wealth .

Kevin Palmieri

We bring you a new episode every single day , on topics like confidence , self-belief , self-worth , self-awareness , relationships , boundaries , consistency , habits and defining your own unique version of success .

Alan Lazaros

Self-improvement in your pocket , every day , from anywhere , completely free .

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University . Welcome to Next Level University . Spoiler alert if you are a parent and you have a little kid listening to this episode , I would suggest you skip this one or make sure they're unable to hear . We don't say anything bad , but there are some things that might be a little bit too much truth for your little one , so please tread lightly . Next Level Nation . Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University , where we help you level up your life , your love , your health and your wealth . Today , for episode number 1,897 , you have chosen the harder road and for that you should be proud . I was getting ready to go to the gym today and again , just for context , not because I want it to sound like I'm complaining all the time . I complain sometimes , but less than you think . Probably you just hear it all the time because this is where I complain the most . It's a weird thing Alan and I worked a very late night last night and I slept like garbage , like I got a 60 sleep score after a 14-hour day Not ideal .

Alan Lazaros

And I woke up and I was like I don't remember numbers in this racket .

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah , not great , not great . My average sleep score is 73 . That's not that bad Since I've started using my Oura Ray .

Alan Lazaros

It's not that bad .

Kevin Palmieri

It's okay .

Alan Lazaros

Trendline's down slightly . I do my quarterly Quarterly . I do quarterly averages with myself and all of my clients . I'm starting to and my quarterly average since October 1st is an 83 .

Kevin Palmieri

Pretty darn good yeah .

Alan Lazaros

Yep , yeah , I'm proud of that . You should be .

Kevin Palmieri

You should be proud of that .

Alan Lazaros

Thanks , man .

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know what mine is .

Alan Lazaros

You said it was a 73 .

Kevin Palmieri

Well , that's since inception , since the very beginning , ah , which is it's alarming . The trend line is down , but it makes sense . I've had some weird nights recently . But I was getting ready to go to the gym this morning and I'm sitting in my car and I'm thinking it's Friday . I want to play music on the way to the gym . Six-minute ride , nothing too crazy . And I said you can't , you can't , you can't .

Kevin Palmieri

You have on your tracker mobility in 20 minutes of a book and you didn't do your full 20 minutes of mobility . I'm going to finish it at the gym , but you need to listen to the book on the way to the gym , or you're not going to hit your 20 minutes , and it sucked . I just wanted to listen to music on the way to the gym , or you're not going to hit your 20 minutes , and it sucked . I just wanted to listen to music . Yeah , your light's freaking out . I just wanted to listen to music . Tonight there is nothing I'd rather do than snuggle my wife and eat Taco Bell . But here we are again at 7.17 on a Friday night , holiday weekend . My WhatsApp was crazy this morning and then right around noon , just pitter-patter , it's a holiday weekend , thanksgiving's next week .

Alan Lazaros

Oh .

Kevin Palmieri

So I guess a lot of people have Thanksgiving off the whole week . I think a lot of people probably take the whole week off . So my WhatsApp has been dead since 2 o'clock and I had a coaching call right before this . But sometimes I resent it a little bit . I resent the fact that I could listen to music if I wanted to . But I know here's the hard thing I am aware enough to know that that's not the right thing , even though it feels good in the moment . I know that's not the right thing and I know that's not going to get me where I want to get to

Choosing the harder road: What it looks like

Kevin Palmieri

.

Kevin Palmieri

And if you're out there and you would rather be listening to whatever or watching whatever than this , you most likely have taken what I would consider the harder road , and there's a lot of intersections at that road where you can get off . There's a lot of exits where you can get off , but I don't know if people talk about that enough . There's a million upsides of growth for sure , there's a ton , but there also is the downsides that come with that and the stuff that makes you different and the stuff that you say no to or the stuff that you say yes to . I thought it would be worth doing an episode on it , because there's nothing more lonely than feeling alone in a journey . There's nothing more lonely than going in a different direction than most of the people you know and then feeling like even the people that are doing the same thing as you don't feel the same way as you , and I'm just letting you know that I feel the same way you do . You want to add anything or you just want to get out ?

Alan Lazaros

This is the longest . This is the longest pause We've ever done on the podcast .

Kevin Palmieri

We've got a lot of stuff going on in there 1900 episodes .

Alan Lazaros

Kev can see me , and if you're on YouTube , you can too . My brain is just too too much , too much . I can't . It's like trying to squeeze a lot of stuff through a tiny tube .

Kevin Palmieri

You just can't do it you want me to carry us , I can carry us , no the law of trade-offs .

The law of trade-offs explained

Alan Lazaros

There's a book called the 15 invaluable laws of growth by john Maxwell . It's behind me Top five favorite books of all time . Super important book . The Law of Trade-Off says you can pay now , play later . Play now , pay later .

Alan Lazaros

And when you want to listen to music instead of a book , the truth is your future will be brighter if you listen to the book , you'll be better . Does that mean you never get to listen to music instead of a book ? The truth is , your future will be brighter if you listen to the book , you'll be better . Does that mean you never get to listen to music ? And this is the thing . This is the conversation . This is it .

Alan Lazaros

Nlu is the less fun option . Of course it is . We throw some jokes in . Kev talks about his fear of sharks . We have fun with it and we laugh a lot , depending on how tired we are . But ultimately this is about growth and it's about the truth and it's about looking in the mirror and it's about questioning yourself and questioning other people and questioning the world and questioning your dreams and questioning your goals and asking the tough questions . Answering the tough questions . It takes a lot and the thing that I wanted to read for this episode , because we came up with this episode , I think , yesterday , and this is something that I would send to my clients . It's a book thinking in bets by ann duke I think it's annie duke , isn't it annie duke ?

Alan Lazaros

annie duke and I . It's page 123 . I have it saved saved in what I call my everything folder . When I'm coaching I pull up a folder and then I have everything named , so I can just type it in the upper right and it comes up and this is called the truth contract .

Kevin Palmieri

I want to do a disclaimer right before this . Yes , so I have only seen the first Matrix and I watched it way too late . I watched it two years ago , came out like 1998 or something . Right , it came out a while ago , but in the matrix they talk about the red pill and the blue pill 27 years ago . 27 years ago , 1997 . That's when it came out I , I don't know .

Alan Lazaros

You said , oh , oh , I just made that up . Yeah , I just made that up .

Kevin Palmieri

But there's a there's a part in the matrix where they talk about taking the red pill or taking the blue pill and essentially what the red pill is , the truth pill . Right , you get to know all the stuff all the real stuff .

Alan Lazaros

This will make a lot of sense in a second yes , I'm gonna read something that explains it very well I was very blown away by it . Yeah , 1999 , okay , so 26 gonna be years ago .

Kevin Palmieri

I wanted to do a disclaimer because right now I told Alan I said I don't like the red pill , blue pill thing Because there's a lot of toxic masculine podcasts that are considered like red pill podcasts and they just say a bunch of toxic shit . It's not like they're , it's not the truth what they're saying , they just say outlandish stuff , that is . Can you give an example ? No , because I don't listen to any of them , so I don't really know .

Alan Lazaros

By the way , I found out from Amy that , and thank you production team for this apparently they've been bleeping out our swears .

Kevin Palmieri

Interesting .

Alan Lazaros

Yeah , I didn't know that I didn't know that either .

Alan Lazaros

Amy says , yeah , they've been doing a really good job at . Because when I mentioned on the show that Two of my clients I married couple , they have two daughters and they memorized the intro , I felt terrible because I know I've been dropping f-bombs every now and then shout out to the team . Yeah , so shout out to the team . So I assume that my clients Were probably assuming that I knew you know , it's don't worry , you bleep them out . So I assume that my clients were probably assuming that I knew , don't worry , you bleeped them out . I didn't know . My team is doing stuff . It's great , it's wonderful . Yeah , you lose track .

Kevin Palmieri

Well , that's how you know we're hyper overwhelmed is we're not reviewing the show as much as we need to , for sure .

Alan Lazaros

Well , I do want everyone to know Kevin is the DRI on this podcast , which is the Directly Responsible Individual .

Kevin Palmieri

Never missed an episode , son , nor have I , good sir . Well , I know , I know , but that's because I wrangle you , gotta wrangle the kid . You know , sometimes he's out to lunch .

Alan Lazaros

For sure , what are we talking about ? You don't remember what we're talking about . No , I do . All right , I'm gonna read the thing now yeah yeah , okay , all right , here we go let's see how the dramatic reading yeah , let's see how it is .

Kevin Palmieri

First of all , didn't you read something in the last episode ? You did . You said I'm gonna read something back to back . We used to in our old episodes , this is , and we were doing really well . Somehow I don't know how we were doing really well growing the podcast , but we used to have an episode where we would literally just choose a word and then Alan would read the definition and then we'd talk about it . Episode number 100 was Legacy , because that was Alan's word .

Alan Lazaros

Yeah , still my word , still your word . What's your word ? Resilience ? Still .

Kevin Palmieri

It makes sense . That was my word until Evan challenged me and said resilience is easy for you . Interesting Evan , what's your new word ? Resilience still .

Alan Lazaros

I'm stubborn .

Alan Lazaros

All right , here we go , all right . So Thinking in Bets by Andy Duke . This book's awesome . This is one page out of it and I used to send this to clients . I haven't been doing it lately , but I always have the conversation . This is the conversation , how it goes . Hey , it's my job to help you be successful and fulfilled . I care more about your success and your fulfillment than your feelings . It doesn't mean I don't care about your feelings . It just means that I'm going to have to hold up the mirror . I'm going to have to ask you the tough questions I'm going to have to . Kev , always jokes people love when you tell them about them . I'm going to have to tell you about you .

Alan Lazaros

I do this for a living . This is what I do , and the metaphor that I use is imagine in computer engineering you have software that has a bug in it and then you go and you find the bug and you reprogram the software and then it works properly . I'm trying to , for for when I coach kev , for example , I'm trying to go into kevin and reprogram him and help him with his beliefs and his values and alignment and understand . So I'm reprogramming , I'm identifying the cognitive distortions inside kevin , helping him rectify them . That's why he makes better choices now and all that stuff . It's not all me , obviously , but it's . It's a . I have to be willing to help Kevin realize some very challenging truths and this is what I used to send before I had that conversation about success and fulfillment and feelings . So here's what I used to send the red pill or the blue pill .

Alan Lazaros

I just hammered my hand on my desk . Here we go In the classic science fiction film , the Matrix , when Neo , played by Keanu Reeves , meets Morpheus , the hero hacker played by Lawrence Fishburne . Neo asks Morpheus to tell him what the Matrix is . Morpheus offers to show Neo , giving him the choice between taking a blue pill and a red pill . You take the blue pill . The story ends . You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe . You take the red pill , you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes .

Alan Lazaros

Just as a metaphor , I do want to use Kevin and I at the beginning of our podcast journey as so we both had our quarter life crisis in our mid twenties . I got in a tough car accident and that's when I really took the red pill For you . You had suicidal ideation . You found out rock bottom has a basement , and that's when you sort of took the red pill and you and I decided you know what ? The way we're living is not working . We have to go all in on the truth , the hard truth we don't want to face . We don't have dads , all of it , all the hard truths . Okay , here we go . So we're not just saying , hey , go do this . We're saying this is what we've done as well , leading by example . As Neo reaches toward a pill , morpheus reminds him remember , all I am offering is the truth , nothing more .

Alan Lazaros

Neo chooses to see the world as it really is . He takes the red pill and is pounded with a series of devastating truths . His comfortable world is a dream created by machines to enslave him as an energy source . His job and lifestyle , his clothes , his appearance and the entire fabric of his life are an illusion implanted in the brain . In the actual world , taking the red pill causes his body to be unplugged from his feeding pod , flushed into a sewer and picked up by morpheus's pirate ship , the nebuchadnezzar . As rebels against the machines , morpheus and his crew , and now neo , due to his choice , live in cramped quarters , sleep in uncomfortable cells , eat gruel and wear rags . Machines are out to destroy them . The trade-off is that neo sees the world as it actually is and , in the end , gets to defeat the machines that have enslaved humanity . Spoiler alert In the movie the Matrix was built to be a more comfortable version of the world .

Alan Lazaros

Our brains likewise have evolved to make our version of the world more comfortable . Our beliefs are nearly always correct . Favorable outcomes are the result of our skill . There are plausible reasons why unfavorable outcomes are beyond our control . And we compare favorably with our peers , we deny , or at least dilute , the most painful parts of the message . Giving that up is not the easiest choice . Living in the matrix is comfortable , so it is a natural way we process information to protect our self-image in the moment . So is the natural way we process information to protect our self-image in the moment . By choosing to exit the matrix , we are asserting that striving for a more objective representation of the world , even if it is uncomfortable at times , will make us happier and more successful in the long run . But it's a trade-off that isn't for everyone . It must be freely chosen to be productive and sustainable . Morpheus didn't just go around ripping people out of the matrix against their will . He asked Neo to make the choice and exit the matrix with him .

Alan Lazaros

If you have gotten this far in this book , I'm guessing that you are choosing the red pill over the blue pill . Awesome passage , super important . I used to send that to my clients because the truth is , if you're not successful or fulfilled , there's a reason . And in my honest opinion , people say the truth will set you free . I disagree . I think accurate thinking will set you free .

Alan Lazaros

All of us have cognitive distortions . We want to believe things that aren't true because it's easier to handle emotionally . So I'll give you one example . When I first found out that Santa Claus wasn't real , I asked about the tooth fairy , I asked about the easter bunny . I found it all out okay .

Alan Lazaros

So so when I just read that , and morpheus in this metaphor and it's all a metaphor , right he said I don't just go around ripping people out of the matrix . That's what I essentially did , because my her name was katie , my neighbor . She didn't want to know , she wanted to stay in the delusion of believing in the fairy tale and the magic and all that stuff . I neighbor , she didn't want to know , she wanted to stay in the delusion of believing in the fairy tale and the magic and all that stuff . I didn't . I don't want and maybe this is a me thing , I don't know , I don't care Like I want , I don't want to be lied to about anything , and I think one of the reasons why and I could be wrong is I feel like the truth for me has always allowed me to achieve more . So let me try to make this as practical as possible . If you are 25 years old and you do still believe in Santa Claus , you're basically making decisions that are based on inaccurate data . And what's a good example of inaccurate data ?

Kevin Palmieri

The world is not flat .

Alan Lazaros

Okay , the world is definitely not flat and everyone knows that . Apparently , some people still believe it , which is hard for me to fathom . But if you believe the world is flat when it's not , you might not travel when you could . There's implications . I just don't have a good , tangible example of the implications , like if I think I got one . I got one for you .

Kevin Palmieri

Episode of Parks and Rec . Ah , here we go . Episode of Parks and Rec . I don't remember the group , but they go to the city hall and they say , hey , we need to reserve a park on this date . And she said why is it that date specifically ? And he says that's the date that I think it's Zorb is going to come down and eat us all . That's the day the world's going to end . And she's like , oh okay , cause they've done this like a bunch of times . This isn't the first time that they've reserved the park for this end of world thing .

Kevin Palmieri

And there's people there selling expensive things because they're saying your money's not going to matter tomorrow anyway . So Ron Swanson goes and sells these really expensive flutes I think they're flutes and he says well , you can't hang on to it , you can't bring it with you , 150 for this one . And everybody's giving up their money . Tomorrow they're going to have $150 worth of flutes and an empty wallet because the world doesn't end . And then they then the guy goes back and he says wallet , because the world doesn't end . And then they then the guy goes back and he says slight miscalculation , I actually need the park again six months from tomorrow or something like that .

Alan Lazaros

So that's an example . Okay , the bottom line and I love the metaphor , I'm using it a lot lately , I know is if you do not think accurately about yourself , others in the world , you essentially will take wrong turns . Imagine a gps that has the wrong data . It thinks there's a road when there's a cliff . You're going to drive off a cliff on accident and all it has to do with is cognitive distortion . You just don't think accurately and so

Cognitive distortions and accurate thinking

Alan Lazaros

kev you .

Alan Lazaros

And what's the difference between you and I now and you and I in high school ? You and I now understand a lot more . We have more accurate data . You know , I thought I had high self-worth . I actually had low . I didn't know low self-belief was a thing because everyone pretended to have it . Now I just feel like we understand so much more than we used to 're less ignorant . We're so much less ignorant and that is so powerful . You cannot manifest your dreams if you're ignorant . I don't know if people talk about that enough . Like , you and I have wonderful relationships . Why ? Because we're so much less ignorant than we used to be . Can you imagine if we were like imagine 17 year old kevin , no , in a relationship with taryn now . No way that I would feel bad for her . Genuinely , I would feel bad for her same . I wonder if people are honest about that . It's like I'm 36 , emilia's 30 . She's way more aware than I was at 30 . I'm not just saying that to like , I don't know , put myself down or whatever I would . That wouldn't work , because she would have to be my mentor . She wouldn't be able to be a peer . You know , I , I . Why do you hire a coach ? You hire a coach because they're less ignorant than you . Or you can go the other way and say they're more intelligent than you so you can say less , less arrogant or less ignorant or more intelligent ?

Kevin Palmieri

that's saying the same thing . Well , I think it's . Yeah , it depends on what . It depends on what your relationship with intelligence is , because I think ignorant is often considered a negative word when in reality , it's just lack of it's lack of knowledge , it's lack of information , it's lack of accuracy . It doesn't . It's just lack of knowledge , it's lack of information , it's lack of accuracy . It doesn't mean it's a negative thing , but it's hard . I think having awareness is a great opportunity , but it is also a great responsibility . When you're aware of yourself and you're aware of the repercussions of the things that you're doing , it's not I don't want to say you can't have fun . I want to have a glass of whiskey tonight . Like I want to have a glass . It's been a long-ass week . We're probably not going to finish early enough , so it wouldn't make sense , but I'm already thinking like , ah , that's not good for my brain . Like what's the I don't know , know , what's the downside of one glass per month ?

Alan Lazaros

more than you think and that's the problem .

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah , so now am I not gonna do it ? Probably not , I don't know . I don't know . That's the yeah , that's the hard thing . Today I got a whatever 60 sleep score . Should I have gone back to bed ? Probably yeah , but I it's , I don't have time right now , so I don't have time to gone back to bed . Probably yeah , but I don't have time right now . I don't have time to go back to bed . Well , so here's the deal .

Alan Lazaros

The more you're aware about yourself , others and the world and the more you think accurately about yourself , others and the world , the more responsibility you have to take to manifest that outcome . Responsibility you have to take to manifest that outcome . I one time I did this with Kev and I said how certain are you , from zero to 10 , that you could get ?

Kevin Palmieri

Subway for dinner tonight . It would be a 10 , but it's . It's trending down because we're getting towards closing time .

Alan Lazaros

Okay , so right now it's a 10 yeah , right now it's 10 okay , what he did was a calculation in his brain .

Alan Lazaros

I know where subway is , I know when they close , I know I have a car , I know how to drive , I know my credit card will work . I know how to eat sandwiches . I know they make sandwiches there , I know that there's someone , it's open tonight or whatever . It's not a holiday . So he calculated all that in an instant . One of the reasons Kev's a podcast coach and I'm a business coach is what if Kevin I was on with someone earlier tonight ? Uh , today , shout out to Courtney . I'm very certain that she can win , very certain . I have a calculation that goes yep , 100% . You got the work ethic , you got the humility , you got the vibe , you got the energy . You know how to communicate well , people love you . You got this . You just need the right strategy . So , just like Kev has a car , knows where Subway is , knows they're open , knows how to eat subs , now if I asked Kev zero to 10 , how certain are you you can eat Subway for dinner in the next 10 minutes ?

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah , no , zero , no way .

Alan Lazaros

And if I told this person shout out to Courtney , you can be a successful podcaster in 10 minutes . The answer is no chance . It's impossible . In 10 years , no question If you do the right things . But how come I can calculate that ? Because I know how to quote-unquote play the game . I've played this game long enough . I work indirectly with 63 podcasters . This is what we do .

Alan Lazaros

So awareness is the big deal . Awareness is the cheat code . It's like playing chess . When you don't know what the pieces do , how could you not feel stuck ? You not feel stuck ? That's why I'm convinced young people have such low self-worth .

Alan Lazaros

There's some guys in my gym that are young . Their self-worth is so low they puff up with ego to compensate because deep down , they're so insecure . Of course they're insecure . I mean of course they're insecure . They're tiny , they don't have that much muscle mass , they have no clue what they're doing in the gym compared to me . But I have years and years and years and years and years of the compound effect . So as I've gotten older and I've grown and I've become more aware and more mature and all this stuff , I'm less and less insecure , which then makes other people more and more insecure . Because when you're around someone who's really secure , you feel really insecure because it amplifies your insecurity . And then you can be insecure . But other people's insecurity , that's a whole thing .

Alan Lazaros

But ultimately awareness is the big deal and I'm convinced that most young individuals , you just haven't really been around long enough to actually understand yourself , others in the world , so therefore you kind of can't make good choices . Everyone knows , everyone think of a bunch of poor choices they made in high school . There's no high school student in history that didn't make a bunch of terrible choices . For sure there's some high school students that made less terrible choices than others , but usually it was because they had a mentor or parents or something like that . That said , I mean , all of us know , when you're a kid you do really unintelligent things because you just don't know how devastating some of those things are .

Alan Lazaros

Like I was so reckless in my car , dude , I am so lucky to be alive . Like I drove way too fast when I first got my license . I was reckless and I'm lucky to be here . I I don't drive reckless anymore . Why ? Because now I know that in the us , out of 340 Million human beings in this country , there's 40,000 deaths per year in motor vehicle accidents . When you're a kid , you think you don't know , you don't look the stat up , you figure , oh , I'll be fine . You think you're a good driver ? You're not . But high confidence with low competence equals reckless . And that's why the mortality rate from accidents are much higher in younger people , because younger people have low awareness and high ego basically , well , they have low skills too .

Kevin Palmieri

Exactly that's . That's . The hard thing is

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:

Kevin Palmieri

hello , hello , hello .

Alan Lazaros

Nlu listener . Thank you , as always , for listening to next Level University Real quick . I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner . This is a journal that I use every single day . Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time . It breaks down your dreams into goals , milestones and daily habits . We hope you enjoy it .

Kevin Palmieri

The link will be in the show notes . The hard thing about this journey is you're going to enjoy it . The link will be the same . Your podcast journey will not be the same as ours . It just won't be , because we're different than you are and you're different than we are , and I have strengths that maybe you don't , and you have strengths that I don't , and Alan has strengths that you don't , and you have strengths that Alan doesn't .

Kevin Palmieri

Okay , cool , it's not going to be the same hard , because even when you take the path less chosen , that has been taken by other people , there isn't really a one-to-one . This is exactly how you do it . It doesn't . I don't think it works that way . I don't think anything works that way , even if you go the other route and you , you're somebody who says , look , I just want to do , I just want a nine to five and I want a simple life and I'm not going to focus on growth .

Kevin Palmieri

There's a lot of people who have done that , but their lives are different than yours and we also don't know what other people have done to get to where they have gotten . We see what they've done from what they've showed us and we hear what they've done from what they tell us but we don't really know . We're not certain and that's why growth is so hard , because growth is so personal and everybody starts from a different place . So my self-belief and self-worth journey is different than Alan's self-worth journey . I can't talk Fear of judgment completely different . Fear of success I'm experiencing that now for the first time ever . Alan's had that for most of his life . That's completely different . Fear of success I'm experiencing that now for the first time ever . Alan's had that for most of his life . That's completely different . So for the first five years Alan felt alone with the fear of success and I felt alone with the fear of failure . There have been times where maybe I'm closer to Alan's end now with the fear of success .

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know if you really struggle with the fear of failure , but the only way to get to the understanding that I have today is to go through the things that I've gone through . But I kind of had to do that alone , even though I was surrounded by people . I'm not saying I don't have amazing support , I do , I have great support . But some stuff you just go through by yourself because you don't even know what's happening . You're not sure it's happening until it's already happened . I always say how do you know you're in a dream , usually , or how do you know you're asleep ? You don't , until you wake up . Usually you wake up and you say , oh yeah , I must have drifted off . You don't feel yourself drifting , or you do , but you don't know that you're asleep . I think sometimes there's pieces of growth that are like that you don't really know you're growing through something until you're all the way through it and then you say , oh wow , things are . Things feel different now .

Alan Lazaros

This , I hope , will land in a more powerful way than ever before , even if you don't have the roadmap . Do you believe in your ability to go figure it out , like , do you believe in your ability to go ? Okay , before there were maps , they had to go and explore and then create the map . My camera's going nuts , which we obviously don't know why , and if we did , we'd fix it . We're just

Building confidence and competence through iteration

Alan Lazaros

not aware ?

Alan Lazaros

yeah , I can't stand it drives me nuts , even though we didn't know exactly how to have a successful podcast . Okay , you and I started this podcast almost eight years ago . Kevin , I have no idea how I'm going to start a successful podcast . I'm going to Google it . Boom , here's the equipment , let's rock and roll . You knew how to start , I knew . Even though I didn't know exactly how to start , I knew we could do it . So I just went to the end of the journey I was like , okay , well , some people succeed in podcasting , and I know that we are some people , so I know that I can figure it out .

Alan Lazaros

There's a book called Everything is Figureoutable . I don't necessarily I've never read the book , I just love the title . It's a concept Everything is figureoutable within reason . If you want to start a successful podcast and you have any natural inclination whatsoever for effective communication , you can do that Now . Does that mean you're going to have the most successful podcast in history ? Probably not . But does that mean that you can't eventually , over enough time , with enough iterations , with enough humility , with enough work ethic ?

Alan Lazaros

One of the reasons I was on with Courtney , she said oh , don't worry , I work eight hour weeks . One of the reasons I was on with Courtney . She said oh , don't worry , I work eight hour weeks . Oh , my brain went . Oh , we're good . Of course , if you say I only want to work three hours a week , I can't help you . I have no like . You're not going to win . You can't win working three hours a week . I don't care what equation or like . Let's go back to common sense . If you're only going to work out three hours a month , you're never going to be in great shape .

Alan Lazaros

Kevin said to me like these dog walks aren't going to do it , man . And you know it , I know , I know . That's why I've upped it . It's not because you said it , but I always planned on upping it . But the point is is that there's a formula . Everything is an equation , Everything , everything is a formula . And you may not have the formula no one has the whole formula when they start out . But you can go figure out the formula . But it requires this thing called the learning loop and I'm going to put it in the show notes and then we'll move on . The first one is humble curiosity . You don't think of yourself this way . A ton maybe , but maybe you do . Humble curiosity , I would say for , say for you , kev is very , very high zero to ten . How how much humble curiosity do you think you have ?

The learning loop: A tool for continuous improvement

Kevin Palmieri

I mean ? What's the definition ?

Alan Lazaros

language of origin um how much humility you can't .

Kevin Palmieri

You can't have high humility and say you have high , high humility , 12 out of 10 . I'd say probably about 12 out of 10 all right .

Alan Lazaros

Step one everyone humble curiosity . Curious enough to ask questions , curious , curious , curious enough to want to learn . Humble enough to know . You don't know . Here's humility . I know that I don't . Compared to what there is to know , I know nothing . Compared to what there is to know , I know nothing . Compared to other people , I might know a lot . Okay , humble curiosity . That's step one . Number two is new knowledge .

Alan Lazaros

So let's say Kev is humble and curious , okay , how do I start a podcast ? So he Googles it . How do I start a podcast ? New knowledge ? Oh , okay . So I get a mic , I get a mixer , I use this thing called SoundCloud back in the day . Okay , now that leads to a new choice . So humble curiosity leads to new knowledge . New knowledge leads to a new choice . The new choice is I'm going to buy those things and I'm going to start a podcast . It's called the hyper-conscious podcast .

Alan Lazaros

Change the way you think , change the way you act , change the way you live . After you make that new choice , you get a new experience . You have your first guest . Who was your first guest ? Jeff Lazarus , ah , yes , so you have a new experience . You get in a room with someone and talk deep with someone that you never would have otherwise . Okay , boom , new experience . Then you have new reflection , the new experience . Then afterwards you gotta go Wow , interesting , what if I could do that for a living ? Whoa . And then you go back to humble curiosity .

Alan Lazaros

And when you're back in humble curiosity , you get new knowledge again , and it's this learning loop that happens forever . This will be the last piece . This iPhone 14 was always here . We always could have created this . We just didn't know how . Yet In the future , 10 , 15 , 20 , 30 , 40 years from now , I promise all of you , there will be self-driving cars and there will be no more cars except for antiques that have drivers . Now I'm saying that now that was always possible . We just didn't know how to do it yet . So it's the accumulated wisdom of knowledge over time that compounds . And so I don't know and maybe I'm a weird esoteric with this , but like the only reason why I was able to create the fulfillment pyramid that we have at NLU , that we teach in group coaching , is because I studied Mas past to make the future bigger , better and brighter . What we teach at NLU , we didn't come up with . Some of it we actually did , which is wild .

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know that's more you than me . I just wake up and hope for a good day . Let me see if I can add some value today , baby .

Alan Lazaros

But at the end of the day , these breakthroughs , these things computers were always possible , we just didn't know how to build them . Electricity was always possible , we just didn't know how to do it . Space travel was always possible , we just didn't know how to do it . I always say horses . You know , cars were invented when there were only horses . Airplanes were invented when there were only cars , and space shuttles were invented when there was only airplanes . Airplanes were always physically possible . We just didn't have the knowledge and the awareness of how to build them yet . And is that landing ? Is any of this landing ?

Kevin Palmieri

yeah , no , I yeah .

Alan Lazaros

Yeah , it's landing , yeah , okay so anything that you want to dream of , kev , like seriously , you could come to me and say , hey , man , you know I was thinking , in 20 years , 20 years , I was really hoping to have this mansion on the beach in Newport and I want like three or four acres and it's going to be like $10 million . But I'm committed , can you help me ? And I would be like , yeah , man , let's break down an exact plan . I would literally look , I'd look up Newport , I'd look up how much those mansions are , I'd look at the square footage , I'd look at the acreage . I would literally reverse , engineer , step by step , how much money you need to make each day in order to make that happen . And then I'd insert an exponential growth curve within that and then we'd decide we would just break it down into small chunks .

Kevin Palmieri

That's 100 doable 10 years you can do that .

Alan Lazaros

Uh , I said 30 years , but no , you could do 10 years now here's the deal . Let's say you did 10 years instead of 30 .

Kevin Palmieri

Well , you everything you're gonna have to work a lot harder .

Alan Lazaros

Everything's different yeah , doing it in 30 years , that actually I don't even think would be that that difficult . I know how arrogant that might sound . That wouldn't be that difficult for you if you stay on the trajectory you're on . If you want to condense that to 10 , we have to change almost everything we're doing right now .

Kevin Palmieri

Pass Hard , pass , I'm going to take a pass on that , did all of that land ? Yeah , but I understand Again , it's always a juggling act . I understand why somebody would hear that and one think it's arrogant and two not believe it Because it sounds outlandish . I think it sounds outlandish that you could have that level of power in your hands , and I know that . I know that you do , because many of the things you've said in the past have come true . How do people think ?

Alan Lazaros

other people do that . It's not like you're the first person to have a mansion .

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know . I always thought that that person is different than I am . That person has something that I don't , which is true . They have the strategy . That's what I always thought . When I saw somebody who had something nicer than me , I assumed that they were different than me , and the truth of the matter is they were just different than I thought what would you say to old kev about that ?

Alan Lazaros

because you can't . When people say you can do anything you set your mind to , that's not true . Right , you're not going to fly like what , you're not going to necessarily be the most successful business owner in history . Right , you're not necessarily going to win an olympic gold medal because you try real hard so that you can't do anything you set your mind to . However , however , you can do a lot more than you think . Like kev , do you think long term people can do so much more than they think yes for sure , okay , why because time changes everything , whether you want it to or not .

Kevin Palmieri

Time , yeah , okay , let's do this , whether you're out there or not , or whether you're out there or not , you're out there .

Kevin Palmieri

You can't not be out there because you're out there or not , or whether you're out there or not , you're out there . You can't not be out there because you're out there . Yeah , yeah , can you imagine a world where you weigh 50 pounds more than you do right now ? Why ? Because you let it go a little bit for the next 15 years and you only gain three pounds a year , and now you're 50 pounds heavier than you were today . Same thing , but the opposite , but I think it's really hard . In that case , it would be 45 .

Alan Lazaros

Yeah , well , come on .

Kevin Palmieri

Give me a 16 pounds 16 times 3 . I can't do math right now . My brain 48, . I think 17 pounds , 17 pounds , but it seems , I think time is one of those weird things where it's really hard to predict what'll happen in time . It's really hard to predict what's gonna happen in the next 10 years for you , for me , for me , without you as a as a a source of that knowledge . That's why there's a book I'm reading called Decoding .

Alan Lazaros

Greatness and it's talking about . As a source of that knowledge , there's a book I'm reading called Decoding Greatness and it's talking about . We didn't just wake up with iPads . First there was an iPhone and an iPod . Yes , you know what I mean . Like everything's an accumulation . It's not like suddenly there's going to be .

Kevin Palmieri

Everyone's in space .

Alan Lazaros

There's going to be airplanes first and then spaceships .

Kevin Palmieri

Weren't they all created by the same dude ? No , no , no Same company , no , several companies . Well , I know , but it's the companies that everybody knows about , so automatically .

Alan Lazaros

Xerox had the first mouse and Steve Jobs , you know , kind of ripped off the mouse for the Mac . And then Windows ripped off the Mac , like there's a whole line of , like you and me , for example , streamyard Where'd you get that from someone else using StreamYard , these mics oh , you saw someone else using them .

Alan Lazaros

Like that's innovation , we just stand on each other's shoulders and and constantly get better and better . That's why the moment , the moment , a new technology comes out , every competitor tries to like . Walmart is outfitting all of their stores with kiosks and security systems so that there's no more cashiers . All the other stores are going to do that . Now you'll'll see that from . I mean they have to to compete . They have no choice , right . So again , I think to make it practical , a lot more is doable than I think people think . I know that for a fact .

Alan Lazaros

I agree you are capable of more long-term than you know right

Long-term growth Vs. Short-term comfort

Alan Lazaros

now .

Kevin Palmieri

for sure , yeah , yeah , yeah . But long-term , I think , is the key word , I think is the key word . Long term is the key word . And if somebody , if somebody , is struggling with self-belief , not only is it hey , you got to go to the gym this week , but you also have to go to the gym an average of four times per week for the next 15 years . That , but to play the opposite of that . But you're thinking of that with the competence and the confidence that you have today , not the competence and the confidence that evolves when you do it for the first week and then the second week , and that that's the hard thing to explain eventually , that'll be easy eventually that will be easy

Alan Lazaros

I have clients right now that when they started tracking habits , felt impossible it felt so hard . And now , they're tracking up a storm . I mean it's wild . So , it's really cool . This is my life . I see this transformation happening for a living . So , it's unbelievable to see someone go from never tracking habits to four months later , completely transformed . I mean , it really is it's mind blowing .

Kevin Palmieri

I just think it's the time thing that makes it super hard . We've been doing this for almost eight years and so much has changed In the world , in us , yeah , in the industry . Just so much has changed . It's hard to imagine what happens eight years later . I can't imagine what's going to happen in another eight years Because I didn't know what was going to happen in another eight years , because I didn't know what was going to happen in this eight . Do I have a better idea ? Probably , I would have to say I have a better idea , but maybe not , because I've grown more in the last two years than I grew in the previous six . So what's going to happen ? Bleh , you know what I mean .

Alan Lazaros

It's like a video game you've played before . When you play with someone who's never played before , you know where all the yes , all the bosses , you know what to do .

Kevin Palmieri

I want to get . I just want to make sure we land it back on the point . Yeah , even if you listen okay , if you listen to this episode , you , you have taken the harder road . Yeah , you have taken the more rewarding and deeply fulfilling and I would , I wouldn't argue , I would say the one with more potential for your future , and I think it'll be the one that you're grateful for . But it also probably will be a little bit more challenging than many of the people around you , and it'll kind of maybe always look like you're losing because growth requires resistance , and when you're facing resistance , it looks like you're losing because growth requires resistance , and when you're facing resistance , it looks like you're struggling .

Kevin Palmieri

But I've said this to many people there's a lot of people out there right now on vacation . They're at the resorts , they're doing this , they're doing that and it today they're going to be going through their own struggles that were caused by lack of growth , where even your worst days will be great because of all the growth that you've done . It's still going to be hard , but circumstantially you'll be ahead for lack of better phrasing . Not that it's a competition , but it's just that . That's how I always try to explain it . That way , it might be hard , but when I go to the gym and I have a hard workout , I'm still stronger than most of the people . I know , yeah , but that required me to look like I was losing a lot of the time , even though the weight was heavier , it still doesn't look good . When you can't lift the weight , nobody cares . It doesn't matter If you can't lift the weight . You can't lift the weight .

Kevin Palmieri

80s for five struggle bus Got it though Flat or incline Flat , that's good , it's good numbers .

Alan Lazaros

It was a PR , it's a new PR , it's good numbers , so it's a PR for the year for sure .

Kevin Palmieri

Any incline ? What did you say , any incline ? No , not on that day . I'll be going up to To 90s this week , I think , on incline Nice .

Alan Lazaros

Nice , we are Bulking . It's nice Thick , real nice Thick .

Kevin Palmieri

It is Last thing , empowered Quickly . Truth Is hard to hear .

Truth, empowerment, and facing complex realities

Alan Lazaros

However , it's empowering . So we have faced More hard truth About our past , about ourselves , about other people , about the world , but because of that , we are now more empowered , and if you want to feel empowered , you're going to have to face more hard truth .

Kevin Palmieri

I'm proud of everyone If you're growing through it . I'm proud of you Because it is far easier not to do it in the now , but eventually it comes back to bite you in the butt . Unfortunately , If you are looking for a group of people to go through this journey with albeit a potentially painful one at times , we have a private Facebook group called Next Level Nation . We'll have the link in the show notes for that , and Alan is still doing free 30-minute calls with listeners and or business owners . I'll let you talk about that concern .

Alan Lazaros

Yeah , the red pill , blue pill thing . Ultimately , what the coaching is going to do is help you understand . Okay , if you want these goals , then we're going to have to figure out where you're . I always tell Kev this . I say , kev , if it ever seems like I'm ungrateful , I apologize . The things that I'm grateful for don't need to change . Yep , if we want to and I've started doing if-then If we want to achieve our goals , kev , then this , this and this is going to need to shift .

Alan Lazaros

It's not my opinion , it's If you want to have a magnificent marriage , then you must be humble and vulnerable and honest and sincere . I mean , it's not a , it's not my opinion , right , it's evidence-based . So if you do want to achieve your goals , then you might need a coach and I will tell you the hard truths that will get you there . I care more about your success and your fulfillment hard truths that will get you there . I care more about your success and your fulfillment . You will be more fulfilled and you will be more successful . And it's not toxic , it'll be good , it'll be aligned , it'll be constructive . I've gotten really good at figuring out where that spot is and shout out to Courtney . I was on with a free session with her earlier today and I know there was big breakthroughs there for her , and so , yeah , please reach out .

Kevin Palmieri

If you ever start another , you're going to start a podcast about business . It's going to be Business Growth University . It could be Big Breakthrough University , so I'll just put that out there BGU , business Growth University .

Alan Lazaros

It could be BBU .

Kevin Palmieri

Big Breakthrough University Baby .

Alan Lazaros

It wouldn't be on brand .

Kevin Palmieri

As

Outro

Kevin Palmieri

always , we love you , we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you and at nlu we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow talk soon thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university . We love connecting with the next level family .

Alan Lazaros

We mean it it when we say family . If you ever need anything , please reach out to us directly . Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes .

Kevin Palmieri

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow .

Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host