Next Level University

Juggling Optimism and Realism (1907)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan share how to stay hopeful without ignoring reality. Using the Stockdale Paradox as a guide, they share practical tips and real-life examples to help you face challenges, set realistic goals, and stay grounded in tough times. This inspiring talk will leave you ready to handle life’s ups and downs with strength and focus, whether it’s health, finances, or relationships.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Show notes:
(2:03) The Stockdale Paradox explained
(4:32) Hope Vs. Delusion
(7:15) Facing financial realities and brutal truths
(13:03) Toxic positivity, toxic negativity, and staying centered
(21:13) Personal growth through contextual coaching
(22:52) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(36:08) Emotional maturity and staying calm in adversity
(41:22) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

A good coach. There's many good definitions. There's many definitions of a good coach, but I think one of them is stopping somebody from doing something that's actually misaligned. They just don't realize it yet.

Alan Lazaros:

So I'm all for optimism, but there's a constructive optimism versus a delusional optimism. And if you're a delusional optimist, you're going to get all that feedback and it might be so much feedback all at once that it actually creates drama and hopefully you eat that humble pie and actually grow from there.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus, at.

Kevin Palmieri:

NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,907, I'm actually very excited to do this episode, juggling Optimism and Realism. So I'm reading a book right now, based on Alan's suggestion, and it's a series of books and I think I've read all the other books except for this one, and it is Harry Potter. No, I'm kidding, it is good to great by a great author named Jim Collins, and it's very. It's awesome because most of what I'm learning about is business fundamentals and all that, but there's a lot of crossover to self-improvement and personal development and and all that that stuff.

Kevin Palmieri:

So there's something called the stockdale paradox. Let me move my screen down here so I can. I can look at this and do it. The stockdale paradox is a concept that involves balancing optimism with realism to navigate challenging situations and the reason it's named the stocks the stockdale paradox. It came from admiral james stockdale, a us military officer who was held prisoner in the I don't know how to pronounce that Hanoi Hilton During the Vietnam War. Stockdale was tortured more than 20 times and lived without any certainty of release or survival. The example in the book Jim Collins was talking about how I think he said what. Somebody asked this guy Stockdale what his. You can tell my storytelling is on point tonight what separated the people who got broken by not escaping versus the people who didn't? And I think he said it was like hope, the people who hoped we were going to be out by next Christmas and when we weren't, it broke them. Did you remember that?

Kevin Palmieri:

yeah, this also there's a anything to wrap up that, anything of value, to kind of bring together what I the the mangled parts of what I just said well, the people who were really optimistic about getting out rather than realistic.

Alan Lazaros:

Sometimes. The emotional letdown of that not being true was too much and they end up giving up. In the book by Viktor Frankl, a Man's Search for Meaning and I always like to say this too, because I know we have a lot of amazing female listeners it's a woman's search for meaning as well. He says man as in mankind. It is not a sexist book on any level. It's one of my favorite books ever written and Viktor Frankl is an absolute genius psychologist and he talks about being in World War II and the concentration camp and he experienced all of that and he talked about how the same deal the people who were the most hopeful to be home by Christmas ended up giving up and their survival rate. And he said they didn't just die of typhus, because typhus was what they were. A lot of people were dying of, but what they really were, they got typhus after losing hope.

Alan Lazaros:

Hope is we've talked about this on the podcast in the pastilism is you believe that the future and most of this is unconscious you believe that the future is worse than the past. It'sa. It's a very helpless, hopeless feeling and we all know when you have something to look forward to, like a great vacation or holidays or whatever it is that you look forward to. For me, it's going to see gladiator too I was so pumped the whole week.

Alan Lazaros:

And when you have, I'm looking forward to building a family with Amelia. I'm looking forward to the future I have. I have a lot to look forward to, and everyone. Imagine looking forward to an amazing vacation or whatever it is. Imagine you can design your life where your whole future you're always looking forward to an amazing vacation or whatever it is. Imagine you can design your life where your whole future you're always looking forward to it to it now. What this paradox is saying is that if, if that is not rooted in reality, you're gonna have a really hard time once you have that sort of wake-up call, and how you handle that let down is to make or break whether or not you end up nihilistic or hopeful.

Kevin Palmieri:

And one of the sayings in this, one of the words that I think really stands out, is acknowledge the reality of your situation, even if it's brutal. That brutal word, I think, is very important, because sometimes the reality of the situation is this is terrible and this sucks really, really badly, but it doesn't mean it's worth. You can't just throw in the towel necessarily. That's the realistic piece. So Tara and I had a really, I say, fun, cool conversation last night. But she said, on a scale of 0 to 10, how upset would you be if I bought you a trip for Christmas? And I said, babe, we can't, can't do it. She's like well, flights to Puerto Rico are like 90 bucks and Airbnbs are like 50 bucks a night. I said, babe, where we are right now, we are focused on eliminating all the debt. I can't, can't do it. I would love to, I would absolutely love to.

Kevin Palmieri:

But the brutal reality of where we are right now is that's something we just can't do right now. Could we do it? Yes, we could. It's not like, not like we couldn't afford to do. That Might be a couple hundred bucks, right, but it's it's more the principle of it. But I said I promise you when we climb out of the, the circumstances we have created. Alan and I, and everybody honestly, like you too, babe, me too, right, we've created these circumstances in a way. I promise the next time you ask me for something like this, my answer will be yes, and it will be way different. Maybe not this specific, but we're grinding out of this for a reason. That was a brutal truth to share. She was so excited, so excited, and the principle is like it might be a couple hundred bucks, but it's, babe. Right now, the brutal truth is that's something that we can't do.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, to bring this to the brutal truth as well, and I think this is good, because health, wealth and love and maybe she was thinking this, maybe she wasn't, but Maybe she was thinking this, maybe she wasn't but it's not just the couple hundred bucks, it's the fact that you guys will be away and you won't be able to make more money, and I want to make this as clear as we can to the listeners. All businesses use something called leverage and they use debt to invest capital in the business, to then grow the business.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's not like we're. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, again.

Alan Lazaros:

I want to make it really clear that you could easily do that. It's not whether or not you could, it's whether or not you should. And this goes back to the supposed to versus the want to Like you want to go to Puerto Rico. You're not supposed to.

Kevin Palmieri:

I mean, I don't really care In the current circumstances yeah. I don't really care about that, but again I just want to reiterate to me it's about the brutal truth part. It's about the fact that right now we're on a mission to do this because we know this is the next step for us. We we did a lot of stuff to build the business, to get to where we are today. Alan alan's like have let me go, let me go, let the kid let the kid no, no, no, this is good, this is good, but I want to be honest with her about where we're at again.

Kevin Palmieri:

We're not everything's fine, babe, everything's fine, and this just isn't the most intelligent thing for us to do, right, does she does?

Alan Lazaros:

she factor in the. It's not about the couple hundred bucks, it's the. It's about the money I'm not going to make while we lose momentum while away not as much as no not as much as I do. I said this to kev a long time ago and this is for the listeners as well when, when you're working the benefit of working extra there's someone I was just coaching. She's working 84 hours this week. Now that's a little excessive, but I'm very proud of her and this is the most money she's ever made.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm so proud of her and shout out to you you know who you are, but you want to know the benefit of that. You're not spending money. When you grind, you're not spending, and and I went on a trip last week and it was very hard to sustain all of the fruits of our labor and I told this to group coaching. So our business made 6084 dollars last week, but that had nothing to do with what we did last week. Last week was one of the least productive weeks I've had all year while I was away in south carolina, and so it's all about the three, six, nine, twelve months prior that actually creates the the fruit now, and so just a little side tangent for anyone out there, when you are grinding and working, remember, sitting around hanging out is a good way to waste money.

Alan Lazaros:

Everyone I've ever coached who has a lot of free time ends up spending money, because when you're bored, what do you do? You just go find ways to spend money. So remember, when you're working, if you're making a certain amount of money per hour, you're also not factoring in that you're not spending money during that hour, and I wonder if people realize that. So if you're making 20 bucks an hour. You're making $20 an hour. You're actually making more like $40, because you're not spending the $20 you would if you weren't working, if that makes sense.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it makes sense. I still disagree vehemently about it. Talk to me. I mean, now it's so easy to spend money. That's my point. You could work 19 hours, but if you're going to buy shit on Amazon, it only takes 15 minutes. So, unless you're working 24 hours, but do you? Agree that when someone's bored, they end up spending more money. Yes, I would agree with that.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, but I still think now that person is working 84 hours this week. They're not spending money, they're just. They're not going to the movies.

Kevin Palmieri:

Right, right, right. And they're not booking trips, but but they might buy takeout. That's fair, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true.

Alan Lazaros:

But again, I think when you have a free weekend you end up spending money Like this is a human behavior. I agree, I agree. I think the principle is there.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think the principle is there. I agree, I agree with that. I just can't get on board all the way. Yeah, yeah yeah, I can't get on all the way.

Alan Lazaros:

That's okay, that's good. That's the beauty of this podcast.

Kevin Palmieri:

We can stay on our own trains.

Alan Lazaros:

You're funny. Right now You're on YouTube. So back to this, the brutal reality thing.

Alan Lazaros:

The very first Facebook Live that I saw of Kev. This is way back in 2016. It felt like a lot longer before that, but isn't that wild. Kevin did a facebook live. It was befd better every fucking day and I loved it. And you basically came on facebook live and said you don't deserve to be happy. And he didn't say it like that, but it was essentially do you deserve to be happy? Let's contemplate. And the truth is no, you have to earn happiness. And I had a.

Alan Lazaros:

I was on a podcast recently and she had read the book Worthy by Jamie Lee Kern, I believe that, and we saw her speak at Brendan Burchard's event back in 2018. And in that book and again, I haven't read the whole book. So for anyone who likes this, do not I'm, don't take this out of context this podcaster struggled with self-worth a ton and she read that book and she said to me I think you're worthy if you're breathing. And I said I don't fully agree with that, because we have to earn worthiness through actual merit. No, no one like gets blasted every weekend and is terrible to their spouse and doesn't take care of their kids and doesn't have any responsibilities and doesn't have a job and a career and then still feels worthy. I think worthiness is earned through virtue and working on yourself and improving yourself, and, of course, I feel that way now. The other extreme is, no matter how much you work on yourself, you're not worthy. That's not what I'm saying. So this is a spectrum there's toxic positivity and there's toxic negativity, and we drive to five. We try to stay in the middle, in the unsexy fundamentals.

Alan Lazaros:

Now back to what you were saying about the brutal truth. The reason I brought up that 2016 facebook live is because I loved the fact that you actually had the courage to go on and say the truth is, you don't deserve to be happy by default. You have to earn it. I think you deserve what you work for. Yeah, you deserve what you work for. And and why? In what world do we all just get stuff without earning it? I'll never understand that, because I came from very, very challenging start and I've had to earn every dollar and every. I mean my girlfriend Emilia. I never could have been with her in my 20s. I just wasn't a good enough man yet I hadn't. That's like saying, hey, I'm gonna compare my iphone 16 to the iphone 1. The iphone 1 is hot garbage compared to the iphone 16. Are they both equally worthy? No, are they the same value?

Kevin Palmieri:

no of course not right it's. It's hard when you, when it's a physical thing versus a human, a human, that's I'm telling you, it's I physical thing versus a human, a human, that's I'm telling you. It's I think when we, when we overcomplicate things, it's because of the relationship we have with the human spirit. It's Everybody is, everybody is, should have the opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Right, like that's a thing Everybody has that right in the us.

Alan Lazaros:

that was the basic, fundamental human rights yes yeah, but when you're. But you can't add a mansion on the beach to that list, right, right, right, it doesn't work that way it doesn't work that way.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was on a podcast today and we were talking about self-worth and he said so is self-worth something you have to build or is it something that you uncover? And I say I think it's something you remold, because what we were talking about today was all low self-worth. I said there's another, there's an entirely different episode where we could just do an episode on delusionally high self-worth and how that Jeff's people. Can we go into that?

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, what do you think about it? What about it? Yeah, what do you think about? What about it? Well, I think you're. You're kevin version 3.5, yes, and you're more aware and you're more emotionally intelligent and you're more capable and you're more intelligent, you're more well-rounded. Uh, you are of higher value.

Alan Lazaros:

I have a client, cole, shout out to you his, his focus in his brand, it's it's apex productions. He does video editing and he has a youtube channel. And he, he wants to be a a one percent man, high value man, and he's it's not from ego I love cole, it's not like, oh, I'm better than it's you versus you. It's he wants to improve himself to become a high value man so that he can attract a high value woman. And it's it's not from a toxic place at freaking all. I absolutely love it. What does high value man mean? Like, think about this if kevin is 35 and the 25 year old version of kevin were hanging out with this version of kevin, which one would you want to date? More obviously, the 35 year old one, for sure. Why? Because you renovated your house infinitely more. You're a thousand times smarter, a thousand times more capable, a thousand times more intelligent, a thousand times less insecure. We're not all of equal value. I just don't understand why some of us are so okay with that and some of us aren't.

Alan Lazaros:

When I was a little kid, I was a busboy and a car kid and I knew very little and I didn't have a problem. Everyone else had a problem with being paid minimum wage. I had no problem with that. I'm a teenager, of course I'm supposed to make minimum wage. I don't know. And also I realize now in hindsight I had low self-worth. But this entitlement piece of like. And to bring this back to the brutal truth of the Stockholm thing Stockholm, stockdale, stockdale I keep screwing that up. The Stockdale paradox is, if you're overly optimistic and hopeful, you're going to get reality to smack you in the face eventually. So I'm all for optimism, but there's a constructive optimism versus a delusional optimism. And if you're a delusional optimist you're going to get all that feedback and it might be so much feedback all at once that it actually creates trauma and hopefully you eat that humble pie and actually grow from there. But for you, I guess, what's your take on all that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that delusionally high self-worth is just ego. It's just ego with the assumption that you're supposed to, everything is supposed to go exactly the way that you want, because you want it to go the way that you want, and I just don't think that's real life. The best example I could ever use, the best example for this for me is when I did a bodybuilding show. My coach told me if you want to win, you will suffer more than anybody else, and you can win, though, just so you know, you're gifted, you have really good genetics. You're already in really good shape. I can't believe you haven't done bodybuilding shows before. The brutal truth is this will probably be the worst thing you've ever done, and the reality is you could win. So the realism is what got me through it, because I had the proper expectations from the beginning. It was just I'm going to be real with you.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was on a podcast the other day and somebody asked they asked what was the question? Something along the lines of how does somebody, how does somebody, find the career they want? And I was like, ah, this is an Alan question for sure. And I told the story of Brandon and Brandon wouldn't mind me sharing this. Brandon came on the team and this is pretty common, it's kind of how it works and he's like, hey, man, I want to start a podcast.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm like awesome man, man, I can help you, I can decide and design my man, brandon decide. I like that name, did you?

Kevin Palmieri:

come up with that, or was that him? I honestly don't know. I don't want to take credit if I didn't.

Alan Lazaros:

You've come up with a lot of I've come up with a lot of names a lot of names, I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri:

If I don't know if that was mine, I think it might have been, but I don't know. But we ended up getting on a call one day and I said what do you want this podcast to be? And he said I want to be, I want to be like you guys, but way bigger. And I was like, okay, cool, I don't know what it's going to take necessarily to be way bigger, because I'm not there yet.

Kevin Palmieri:

You got the wrong coach, then I can tell you how to, how to ride coattails to this, to this point. So I said well, I want to talk about what's important to you. This is the brutal truth On a scale of 0 to 10, how important is it for you to be at your family dinners every night? He's like oh dude, 10 out of 10. Cool, when you have kids, you want to have a family, right?

Kevin Palmieri:

He's like yeah man, I can't wait. Cool, how important is it for you to be at their practices, their recitals, parent-teacher conferences? Get them off the bus. He's like dude, 10 out of 10. I said, brother, this shit ain't for you, it's not for you, it's not for you. And I told the story on the podcast and as a guest, and the person said I admire you for telling that person that. And I said, honestly, if I've learned anything over the last seven years, a good coach. There's many good definitions, there's many definitions of a good coach, but I think one of them is stopping somebody from doing something that's actually misaligned. They just don't realize it yet, and I think that's the brutal truth of, and I think that's what people are trying to do.

Kevin Palmieri:

So if you look the Andy Frisilla's. That end is the brutal truth of If you never quit and you work harder than everybody else, you'll most likely be successful. And this it's just hardcore. Grind your face off.

Alan Lazaros:

But it's not the end. It's not the end. We talked on an episode recently Do you know which episode? Two episodes ago.

Kevin Palmieri:

I do not know.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, a couple episodes ago, the Genius of the and also from the jim collins book. Yeah, those books are awesome, but ultimately the the. The only reason why toxic positivity and toxic negativity are called toxic is because it's only one, just one end of the spectrum.

Alan Lazaros:

Yes, yes and and if you put what your coach justin, your fitness coach, bodybuilding coach way back he said, this is going to be atrocious and you need to know that. And if you suffer and are willing to put in the work, you can win and you want yep versus toxic positivity would be no problem, man, you got this all good and toxic negativity would be like you're terrible, you suck, you're the freaking worst and go hurt your self-worth to try to, and if you don't get, if you don't get first place, you shouldn't even try.

Kevin Palmieri:

But there's the but, here's the interesting thing, then this is where the layers come in, and this is an example I've used before. If he, if my coach, was talking to someone who had just gone on this amazing journey of weight loss and they went from 350 pounds to 220 pounds and they lost all that weight and they wanted to step on stage as a proof to themselves that I was capable of doing this, his advice to them would be completely different. Capable of doing this. His advice to them would be completely different. He wouldn't say, honestly, if anything, it would be on the positive end of honestly, man, you did amazing work to get here. Whatever happens on stage happens on stage. Like don't even worry about it.

Alan Lazaros:

But that's why contextualizing everything for the goal and the person is everything, and that's exactly why podcasting can be so hard versus coaching, and this is exactly why I like coaching better, even though I adore podcasting as well.

Kevin Palmieri:

Can I throw a quick thought? Yeah, of course, quick thought. Sorry, sorry to interrupt you.

Alan Lazaros:

NLU listener what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes, I feel.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's a. What if it's like an opposite? So zero is you hate yourself and you were just riding the absolute effing struggle. Bus 10 is you love yourself and you think everything you want to happen is going to happen, no matter how much effort you put in, it just doesn't matter. So one is no matter what, it's never going to work. The other one is no matter what, it's always going to work. The content that is no matter what, it's always going to work. The content that's for you is the direct polarity of that. Yeah, so if you're a three a seven.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, here's the deal, and I'm sorry to interrupt you. You should be. If what you wanted was what you needed, you'd already have it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I still think it's. If what you needed was what you wanted needed, you'd already have it. I still think it's if what you needed was what you wanted.

Alan Lazaros:

Fair. If what's another train, I can't get ready. If my goodness, if what you needed was what you wanted, you'd already have. In other words, if you're a, so zero is no matter what happens, you can't win 10. Is you're going to win, no matter what? Neither one is true, neither one is accurate. So if you're a three, you need a seven on the other side to get to center. I agree that's why we swung dude. At the beginning we were probably a little overly grind and give at the expense of self low self-worth then we got a little overly positive and kind of arrogant.

Alan Lazaros:

in my opinion, we got a little cocky. In my opinion it's like oh, you know what I? I feel like we can hang out a little more. We're winning now dumbest idea ever. And and the truth is, we just swung the pendulum. And I think maturity, I think as you get older, you stop swinging so damn far. You never stop swinging. We're still. Imagine a pendulum when you're a kid.

Alan Lazaros:

You go from zero to 10. You're very volatile. You go from I don't believe in myself at all, I'm freaking out, I can't do this to oh my God, I'm the man, I did it, I'm awesome. Or the woman. Then you go one and nine, then you go 1 and 9. Then you go 8 and 2. Then you go 7 and 3. Then you go 6 and 4. And I remember one time I had Kevin watch the speech of Ben Affleck and Matt Damon after the Goodwill Hunting Academy Award, and the reason I wanted him to watch that is because I wanted you to see how immature they were In comparison to them. Now I don't think they were immature for their age. They were in their early 20s. They were probably more mature than you and I in our early 20s.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, probably.

Alan Lazaros:

But they're way more mature now. They were freaking out when they won. That it's like, dude, take it easy, it's all good. But I understand why they're pumped. They didn't think they were going to win. And who wins in their early 20s, right, I mean, some people spend a 40-year career to get there, and so good for them. But also, take it easy. This is a little immature in my opinion, and if you see them now, they're much. They still have their stuff, but they're much more mature. They're much more centered, they're less volatile. I have my thesis, my hypothesis all the people I coach, the people who are the most centered when good things happen.

Alan Lazaros:

Emilia gave a speech to 75 people earlier this week. There was no swing. There was no. I'm amazing, but there was also no. I totally suck that. I'm the worst. The before the speech, the during the speech and after the speech was no swing at all.

Alan Lazaros:

She's the most emotionally mature human I've ever met. She doesn't. External circumstances do not dictate what she does and doesn't do. It barely affects her. She's just okay. On to the next thing. Great, that's great. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. She's not entitled to the next speech, but she's also not fighting for the next one because it needs to validate her.

Alan Lazaros:

And when I coach these certain people I realize, okay, you're just in a phase where you're a little down on yourself or a little high. And I have some clients where I have to say, listen, you kind your humility a bit and we're going to do an episode deeper on this. You kind of lose your humility a bit when you're winning and understandable, we do too. Sometimes that tends to be me for sure and then when you are losing, you suddenly don't believe you're capable of anything like it's too much of a swing. And when we're kids think of us as teenagers you're super pumped one day think you're the man or the woman, and then the next day you're crying into your pillow. When you get older, you don't have as big as swings and you don't need as much to come back well, that's the goal.

Kevin Palmieri:

yeah, exactly, that's the goal, at least. Right, I don't, I don't know. I think that's that's why the work is so important, because the reality is there are going to be some brutal things that you have to deal with. I mean, there, there are. There are gonna to be that, like dude, I'm telling you every day I imagine my cats dying, every single day. I'm not kidding, every day Without fail, the brutal reality is they're going to die.

Alan Lazaros:

Some people would hear that and say, well, what if you're going to manifest that? That's not rational.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, no, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. If anything, I think it will make me appreciate them more.

Alan Lazaros:

Exactly.

Kevin Palmieri:

My understanding of that is just like if you think about the fact that the plane's going to crash the whole time, it doesn't mean it's going to crash.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, you've tried, unfortunately.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, for clarification. I didn't want the plane to crash. I was afraid it was going to crash, not that I wanted it to Well.

Alan Lazaros:

I think it's very mature of you to have gratitude in advance, knowing that, statistically speaking, most likely your cats will die before you do and you're going to appreciate them more because of it. But ultimately to bring this and to wrap it in sort of a bow some of this stuff is hard to articulate because I think about this stuff all the time. I'm always thinking about where I'm over swinging, and last week I spent a lot of time with a lot of people and I can tell who is emotionally well-developed and who's not by how much they swing. You can tell how well-developed someone is by how much external circumstances affect them, and you know this. In martial arts it's the calm, cool, collected one you've got to watch out for.

Kevin Palmieri:

For sure.

Alan Lazaros:

It's not the one throwing haymakers.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, it's like a running joke. There's always the tough guy that comes in and says, yeah, give me the best guy. It's like you've trained before? Oh, I fight in the streets. It's like, have you? You've trained before? Oh, I fight in the streets. It's like, okay, you're going to get your ass kicked, just so you know You're going to get your. You're going to get your ass. It used to be that it was the funniest thing. People, you would come in and they'd be like, well, I've, there's a lot of strategy here, and it was always funny to see them go with someone who was half their size and they just get rolled up like a ball.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, I think that's a great metaphor for life. If you want to succeed in life and business and be fulfilled, you're going to have to figure out how to stay calm within the storm and not be overly optimistic and then overly pessimistic, and then overly optimistic and then overly pessimistic. You're going to have to stay centered. One of my main goals in life is to be to remain centered, and obviously I'm swinging too. I'm just not swinging nearly as much as I used to when I was a kid.

Alan Lazaros:

I remember screaming into a pillow sometimes and stuff, yeah, yeah, and I don't do any of that anymore.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know I do occasionally what I think you're kidding me yeah, yeah, I mean, I still get do. I get sad, I get sad.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't scream into pillows, I cry occasionally but you don't get as volatile as you used to no, it takes a lot to.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think one of the best things about self-improvement I think we talked about this is you're able to handle more externally. There's just like there's so much going on behind the scenes, just like so many things where a couple five years ago I would not be able to operate. I would, I would just be shut down by now like I need to go lay in bed now.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's like I'll put that on the checklist. We'll figure that out later. I think this is the. This is the best way I can wrap it up and then we'll get out of here. I said this. I said it's the tower on the other day, and this is my example of brutal but optimistic right. The facts, facts and faith is what the example Jim Collins used. You have facts and you have faith. The facts were life is going to be hard and I have no idea what's going to happen in the next 5 to 10 years. I have no clue. I have no idea what's going to happen in the next five to ten years. I have no clue. I have no idea what's going to happen and no matter what happens, I promise you we'll figure it out. I promise you Do. I know how I don't. Will it be super easy? Probably not. No, most likely it won't. Will I have the answers right away?

Kevin Palmieri:

Definitely not what would that have sounded like to you at the beginning? Probably would have sounded arrogant in the beginning. Yeah, it's like how do you know? You don't know the solution, so how can you promise me there is one? Yeah, no, I understand. It sounds wild Because I believe by the time we get there I'll be competent enough and you'll be competent enough, and together we'll be competent enough to find a solution. And I think we're just capable of dealing with the pressure long enough to find the solution. That that's my new belief.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I understand why you'd want to be on one end or the other, Particularly the faith end. I understand why you'd want to say well, no matter what, everything happens for a reason. I don't. I think everything happens and you decide the reason. And if you're somebody who's leaning more and more into the faith side of things, you're going to choose reasons that align with that. And if you're somebody who's leaning into the fear side of things, then you're going to lean into that. But I think it depends on where you are and how you mold yourself. I think we mold ourselves one of two ways.

Alan Lazaros:

If you've ever seen an athlete while they're down 30 points at halftime and they're calm, cool and collected, is that because they don't care and they're apathetic? Or is it because they have been here before and they know they can. They can handle it? Yeah, and there's some merit to that emilia and I living with her over the last three, almost four years. She doesn't freak out. The sky's not falling. We sit down, we figure out the problem, we identify it and then we present a solution and then we get to work. It's whereas in my childhood it was the sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. You want to know why? Because you don't know how to handle this. You're not that competent. And the irony is, the more responsibility you take on, the more competent you become, and then the more competent you become, the more opportunity you get and then the more challenge you get, which then makes you grow. So there's a reason why a 36 year old is more capable than a 16 year old, that this is why it's just growth. There's a reason why ben affleck and matt damon again going to that example are freaking out on stage and being a little bit. I mean, they should be a little embarrassed. I'm sure they are a little bit, and the reason why is because it was a little immature, but I know everyone else is sitting there going oh, that's cute, but at least the seasoned actors and actresses right.

Alan Lazaros:

At the end of the day, the goal is never to be perfect. The goal is to be centered. That's that's it. Centered is the goal. I'm not trying to be perfect. I like to get ignited every now and then. That's why I throw f-bombs on here. I want to show you my boss, volatility and my passion, but I don't want to be toxic, I'm trying to be.

Alan Lazaros:

Here's the difference when you do develop yourself, you become in control. I can. I can go off and I can talk passionately and intensely about something, but I'm in control of it. I can dial it up or down, I can, whereas when I was a kid volatile, you don't know how to handle your emotions. Okay, stepdad and mom are fighting and I don't know how to handle this. I'm going to scream into my pillow because I don't know what to do with all this emotion. That's why puberty is so challenging. Inside Out 2 does a great job articulating puberty, puberty, what's that button? And it's a Pixar movie where she's all the way up and then all the way down. She's crying one second and freaking out the other and angry the other, and that's just what immature teenagers are like.

Alan Lazaros:

And the goal I think in life is to how much can I handle with grace, knowing that I'm not going to handle it with grace fully, and then grow from that and then figure out how to handle even more and and do all you can with all you have. So, as fortune cookie as all that sounds, it I'm with you, man, and I I've always loved how much you like truth. It's been. Whenever I'm around other people, I am reminded of how much they avoid truth, and I used to not have the courage to say that, but I remember watching your Facebook Live way back when going yeah, that's, I agree with you. This whole idea that you deserve to be happy by default is just not true.

Kevin Palmieri:

I would love to live in that world Well that would be great, but that's why it's bad, because if you think that's the way, you're not going to do any of the work Exactly, and that's not what you and I grew up in, so we had to face these hard realities way quicker than some people. Not everyone, but some people so well.

Kevin Palmieri:

I appreciate it. I appreciate that, that and I think, at the end of the day, one of my deepest pains is just not having the self-awareness to know, the self-awareness in the world, awareness to know. So to me, I want to know, even if it sucks. That's the thing. Sometimes the truth is brutal, sometimes the truth is brutal, but with the truth you're able to do something different, and that's, I think that's. But I also understand you don't want 10 out of 10 truth if you have 2 out of 10 belief.

Alan Lazaros:

So many layers very last thing, I promise. I had someone earlier. I was on a coaching session and they said I gotta tell you something. And it's I don't know if I want to tell you because you're going to look at this person differently, all the stuff. She set it up really well because I was like, oh no, here we go. But I was. She said do you really want to hear it? And I appreciate her asking permission. I have to. If something is accurate and true, I need to know I I can't live in a world of delusion, you being deluded, thinking your dad's gonna come when you're a kid, or you you know mom's going to pick you up from school or whatever it is I.

Alan Lazaros:

delusion is dangerous, delusion is let down, delusion is dangerous. And so I said, yeah, I, I need to know, like I. It would be outside of alignment for me to say, no, no, keep it to yourself. And actually it wasn't bad at all, it's all good, but at the end of the day and actually it wasn't bad at all, it's all good, but at the end of the day, let's say it was a devastating truth. I would have to face that and then figure out what to do with it and how to move forward. And I do believe that is the growth journey, not my growth journey, not Kevin's growth journey, I'm talking the growth journey. And if you look at the character in any film or any literature, they go on this growth journey of just facing hard, challenging truths and then finding a way to have the virtue and courage to overcome them. And it is, it's, it's inspiring as hell I like this.

Kevin Palmieri:

this is a good episode. I enjoy this one. There's so many layers. That's why it's so hard, because there's there's so many layers of this. But the simplest form I'm doing a I got my tripod out because I'm doing a Facebook Live with AIM and Next Level Nation after this the simplest form is are you more focused on faith or are you more focused on the fear? And fear in this case is constructive. It's not. I'm afraid of everything. It's constructive, proactive paranoia of everything. It's constructive. Proactive paranoia is another Jim Collins thing from his book Proactive paranoia, productive Sorry, yeah, thank you. Productive paranoia is I am nervous A great example.

Alan Lazaros:

We have an event in.

Kevin Palmieri:

December. What if it snows, though? We're still going to do the event. But what if it snows, though? We're still gonna do the event. But what if it snows, though? Productive Meaning, we're gonna do the thing, but paranoia of what happens if something goes wrong. That's essentially. It's kind of the same thing here. I was productive, you were paranoia. Yeah, that's why we work.

Alan Lazaros:

Really we drove to five. I remember when you first said that I was like I never would have thought of that. I was overly optimistic. I never would have thought of that, I was overly optimistic, I think of stuff like that all the time.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's why I'm very rarely late, because right now I'm going to be late no we're still going to be off.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm still going to be good with AIM, but because I'm always paranoid of what if this person messed up the calendar event and this is like a 60-minute meeting instead of a 30 one, I'll literally say right off the bat we're still good with 30, right, I just want to make sure, because I have a meeting right after this. I always do that because I'm paranoid. I'm paranoid that something's going to go wrong. All right, if you want to have weird ass conversations with us every single day, like we do, make sure you're subscribed on whatever platform you are listening to us on or watching us. I've been tracking the Spotify subscribers followers. I don't like followers, I don't I wish there was a better name for it, but and they've been going up a lot. So I we appreciate you If you're listening to us on Spotify. Apple same thing, but I know Spotify is kind of the new, the new app that people are going to. So, yeah, please subscribe so you never miss an opportunity to get to the next level.

Alan Lazaros:

If you want to align your goals, metrics, habits, skills and identity with your dreams. It's my favorite work in the world. Please reach out. The first one is entirely free. Even if you just want to jump on and ask me about the program, I can give you the emails of existing clients that have given me permission to email them about their experience. Please reach out.

Kevin Palmieri:

As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. And at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow. Talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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