Next Level University

Courage Isn’t What You Think It Is… (1921)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What’s the one thing holding you back from becoming your best self? In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan uncover the surprising truth about courage—it’s not about being fearless but about taking bold steps despite fear. Through honest conversations and personal stories, they reveal how fear shapes our decisions and offer practical strategies to overcome it. If you’ve ever struggled with self-doubt, insecurities, or stepping out of your comfort zone, this episode will inspire you to take action and grow stronger with every challenge. Don’t miss this empowering discussion!

Links mentioned:
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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume
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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:08) Fear of disappointing others
(6:01) Deep conversations and vulnerability
(12:00) Social fears and self-awareness
(22:36) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(27:00) Embracing growth through challenges
(33:00) Courage and fulfillment in life choices
(41:29) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

the thing that you are the most comfortable, familiar and competent with is probably the thing that requires the least courage.

Alan Lazaros

I never had empathy to the extent I do now for people who can't visualize their own bigger, better, brighter future, because they don't have the self-belief part, because everyone in the past always acted like they believed in themselves, like people act.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1921, courage Isn't what you Think it Is. I asked Alan today. I said when's the last time you did something that you were afraid of doing? And he's like dude. Last night, group coaching. And I said okay, and he said what about you? And I said today, today I we have a client. His name is Marcus and he is very intelligent and a very successful human and a good dude, very good dude. Him and I have a good relationship, which I'm grateful for Just signed up for our monthly meetup.

Alan Lazaros

I just signed up for the monthly meetup. I saw it come through from the website.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah very humble, very humble human, so I've been doing something called producer episodes. I think I mentioned this when I so I've been doing something called producer episodes I think I mentioned this where I go on with our client and kind of interview them instead of them doing a solo episode.

Kevin Palmieri

And this morning, when I what's the best question you asked oh, man, because you're the interviewer. What is something that your wife would tell us about you that you would never tell us about yourself? That's fire. That's a good question. Yeah, he struggled that one a little bit. He said I'm probably goofier than you think and I was like deeper, give me something deeper than that. It was good, it was really good, it was really good conversation, nice.

Kevin Palmieri

But I woke up this morning and I saw that in my calendar and I said ah, fuck, that, what is a what's a convenient excuse that I could come up with to make this disappear from my calendar? Holiday's coming up. I'm sure I could finagle something. But then I started to do research and I started to make questions and I told Taryn I said I have a producer episode that I'm nervous about doing. And she said why are you nervous? And I said he's just.

Fear of disappointing others

Kevin Palmieri

I said it's a couple things. One, he's a very intelligent human and that's always scary for me. Two, we're just going to have a deep conversation and I haven't had a deep conversation like that with someone that isn't Alan. I haven't hosted with someone who isn't Alan in however many years, if you really think about it, just based on depth and self-improvement. So I said that's a thing, and then the other thing, and I told him this in the beginning or somewhere in the middle I said I have a deep fear of disappointing men. That's my thing, that is one of my core wounds, that is like my kryptonite and that's one of the reasons it was super hard.

Alan Lazaros

Why are you smiling about it, though I'm in a really good mood?

Kevin Palmieri

I'm not I always think.

Alan Lazaros

I always think of these jokes in my head and then I run through a filter of how inappropriate is that Well, you want to say it.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, I'm used.

Alan Lazaros

I've become fairly numb to disappointing you, I'm used to it at this point, so and you respond well.

Kevin Palmieri

You respond well to it as well I'm grateful for that.

Alan Lazaros

I do have a question that I think is wildly irrelevant. Let's do it, we'll get us back on the relevance but I am genuinely curious and I want to try to follow that more. Number one how do you know when someone's intelligent?

Kevin Palmieri

And then I have a second question oh man, Went to a good college, has a degree in philosophy. You could tell by the words he uses Just the high-performing type, just a high performer, dialed in systems, just meticulous with the way that he shows up. So I think it's mostly those I told him. I said for the audience, for the audience watching or listening, marcus paid us to launch his podcast and then he ghosted me for like a year and I said when you came back, I was nervous. I was, I was a little bit nervous about it. So it was a really good conversation around that. But yeah, I think there's just context clues.

Kevin Palmieri

I would say thank you and and the second question, you're very welcome yeah.

Alan Lazaros

The next question is how? How often do you get? I guess how does that? I'm trying to ask the right question here. I guess how does that? I'm trying to ask the right question here.

Kevin Palmieri

I thought you forgot. That's why I left. I think I did.

Alan Lazaros

No, I I forgot. Yes, but I do think that it's somewhere along the lines of Does he have any idea that? That's how you feel.

Deep conversations and vulnerability

Kevin Palmieri

He wouldn't have if I didn't tell him, because he also said, he was nervous. I'm like why are you nervous?

Alan Lazaros

Same thing, it's probably the same I when I go why did he say he was nervous, what it was his reason?

Kevin Palmieri

because he didn't know where it was going to go. It was his first time, I mean, he's putting himself out there in front of his audience and I'm. He said there's nothing off limits. And I said, cool, I want to go deep. I don't, I don't. I want to go deep on questions and really search here so that exposed I was wondering if you had a blind spot about the question you asked.

Alan Lazaros

What was the question it was about? What would your wife say about you that you wouldn't say about you? Yeah, dude, that's for a type, a super achiever, dialed in person. I wonder if that's more vulnerable for him than you think that's why I asked, that's why, he actually answer or did he go surface level and then?

Kevin Palmieri

what did he answer? Surface level after at first, and then I I dug a little bit, but I went in with the it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to. There are certain people when you're having, when you're doing an episode or you're having a conversation in general, you can almost say why not negatively, like if you answer. If you and I are on here and I ask you a question and you give me an answer and I know there's a why under it I'll just say, okay, why, though, with sometimes you don't, you're not going to do that with someone who is very uncomfortable. I don't know the point of that, but that's why I went in with questions that I intended on trying to make him uncomfortable with. That was my goal. My goal was to make him uncomfortable and to go deep.

Alan Lazaros

That was 100% Did he know that was your goal. I would say say again, this is about courage. So you both needed courage. I would say, to a degree, yeah, and this is one thing that when kev asked when was the last time you were scared, I think the old me many, many, many years ago wouldn't have self-identified as someone who is scared of something like group coaching. But I've now become more aware of, I think, that we're both scared of group coaching, but for different reasons. Yeah, and it's not like a level 10 fear. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't freaking out, but where was it on the Richter scale for you today, the thing you were afraid of?

Kevin Palmieri

Probably like a six.

Alan Lazaros

Okay, last night for me prior to it was probably like a four, and then during it there was a few moments of six or seven, yeah for sure, and. But what I was afraid of and this is kind of my point, because marcus probably is afraid of it too, but for a different reason and the reason I was afraid of group coaching is, yeah, there's I've never presented this before, but it's not that it's I I told everyone in group coaching group 16, shout out to all of you, if any of you are watching or listening, I've never presented this before. You have all experienced and seen NLU from the outside in. This is going to be how we did it.

Alan Lazaros

From the inside out and for whatever reason, that's extremely scary for me Because I think it's going to highlight how different we are from the inside out, whereas from the outside in it might appear like we're just a couple podcasters, but from the inside out, I mean the grand design for lack of a better phrasing of why we do what we do and how we go about it. In terms of the reverse engineering. It's a very, I felt, very exposed.

Kevin Palmieri

I think that's a good way to put it. I think it's a good word to use. I also had another moment where that's the thing. Now I've been labeled as the questions guy.

Kevin Palmieri

Who's good at interviewing and now it's like, okay, let me, I gotta make sure I over deliver here. So I'm doing prep for this, as is always good. But there's that piece too of there's a lot of pressure when people label you externally as something. There's a lot of pressure to at least for me to maintain that internal identity of what people say you are. It's a really challenging thing.

Alan Lazaros

I have the opposite experience of what people say you are. It's a really challenging thing. I have the opposite experience and that makes sense, with you and I being on different ends of the drive to five. For me, I'm not concerned about being labeled an engineer. I'm concerned that I'm going to be more engineer-y than you want, I think.

Kevin Palmieri

Even when you're labeled as an engineer.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, absolutely. There's way more to nlu than anyone knows, unless you come from the inside out. And then it's like, oh, holy shit, so everything you guys do is by design yes, everything, and and for some reason, some people don't like that. It's almost like adding value is somehow less altruistic when you have a reason behind it. You know, yeah, yeah, that's fair, but that's not true, because when you grow and scale a business, the purpose of the business is adding value and spreading self-improvement and helping people reach their goals and dreams. But for some reason, when you do that by design, it almost taints it. For some people. It's weird. I don't know.

Social fears and self-awareness

Alan Lazaros

What it comes down to, I think, is acceptance and belonging. I feel like last night triggered my lack of belonging Because we're in a group of podcasters. There's 11 of them and amy, kevin and I and all of us have podcasted. Amy used to have a podcast as well and I think for me I was very exposed in terms of how different I think and how different I am, and I don't know why, but that triggers me so much. It's almost like I'm going to be not accepted here. I'm not accepted here Like I'm the different one. I'm the one who's different. Now that's highlighted.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, Even in the place where you're supposed to be the most accepted, you're not. You don't necessarily feel it. You feel exposed to the fact that you might not be.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, and, if anything, I'm actually dialing down, whereas it's actually much more than even this. If you think this is too intense, I mean there's a whole, nother level of intensity in the way I actually think and feel and believe. So, to bring this back to the listeners and the viewers everyone is fearful. You're just fearful of very different things, and the reason why I asked you the rating from 0 to 10, you said it was a 6. That means you need level 7 courage.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, and that's the thought in today's episode. It's not I don't. Courage is not the absence of fear, it's feeling the fear and doing it anyway. And the thought is today, what a six is? That six, eventually, is a five, and then that five is eventually a four, and then Alan and I jumping on here on a scale of zero to 10, how nervous were you doing this episode. If last night's group coaching session was a four, this would be like a two or a one and that's probably a one same same. And that's the goal. And I remember in the beginning I was super nervous yeah, even for these the weird thing is that you didn't.

Alan Lazaros

The weird thing is that you didn't share that. No, so like last night again, I was uncomfortable and I just owned it. I said I'm getting very red and I pointed out my neck. I also have these really bright lights so I look even more red. But I wonder to myself if other people, when they're uncomfortable, are saying it so, for example, you in the beginning. You said you were super nervous now, but at the beginning, when you first interviewed me, I was Kevin's first guest on the Hyperconscious podcast, long before we became Next Level University, but you didn't tell me you were nervous.

Alan Lazaros

I wonder if I even knew I was or if it was just ego. Yeah, the ego protects us from facing the hard realities of life and, unfortunately, until you face and accept that, you are scared. You kind of can't. It deludes you get to the next level. Yeah, it totally does.

Kevin Palmieri

Because I could have done it today. I very easily could have just said well, this doesn't matter, whatever, no matter what, it's going to be fine, what's?

Alan Lazaros

the downside of that.

Kevin Palmieri

You don't use the fear as a constructive tool. My guess is it won't go as good as it possibly could go. I'm not saying it'll go terrible, but I'm willing to bet it probably wouldn't go as good as humanly possible, which I mean. That's kind of what you're aiming for Sometimes. As good as humanly possible is just doing it.

Alan Lazaros

What is the source of your fear in that, in this case, like what's the root of it?

Kevin Palmieri

probably disappointment. Yeah, this I I I'm always afraid somebody is going to get something different than what they expected in like a disappointed way.

Alan Lazaros

It's like I was really hoping it was going to be better okay what's underneath that, like why, if you disappoint someone, that means this is called socratic questioning. I wish I had said this on the episode, because we did an episode where I literally unpacked well, what does that mean, and what does that mean and what does that mean? This is a couple episodes ago and I got.

Alan Lazaros

I, by the way, I did reach out to that client and got permission for all that to happen, even though it was anonymous. Uh, sometimes it's. Yeah, I need reassurance here because that was deep, but it's called socratic questioning, which is what does that mean? So, let's say you disappointed marcus. What would that mean?

Kevin Palmieri

I'm not good at this, probably, even though, yeah, I'm not good at this. And what would that mean?

Alan Lazaros

this whole thing is a fucking lie honestly, yeah, yeah, this whole thing is a lie this was a big breakthrough for me.

Alan Lazaros

So so I'll this is if this is uncomfortable, I apologize, kev In group coaching I think we've done this long enough, you and me, to where we kind of get it. I in real time had a moment of I'm sharing from the inside out how we've built NLU and most of that was by my design. Of that was by my design and kevin is. The contrast between kevin and I is getting highlighted, which makes him a little bit insecure, which makes me really insecure. And then there's a few people in the room one in particular, I think, was also energetically insecure. Everyone kind of was uncomfortable a little bit. You could feel it in the room. It was heavy, heavy energy, and and the reason why is because I think we're all insecure.

Alan Lazaros

I'm insecure about other people's insecurity and so, particularly with men insecure men for me I can feel their energy and it makes me insecure. And then I'll either ego up to protect myself or I'll go docile like a whipped dog and I try really hard to stay centered and just be vulnerable. And that's why I was just like, listen, I'm red, I know this is a lot, and I wonder, do I even need to do that? Should I just hammer through it? I told Kev this recently and I'll bring everyone behind the scenes. I said I don't want you to. I want feedback, constructive feedback on whether or not I'm toxic. Because the truth of the matter is is I have a very intense energy, I'm a very intense human being and, if anything, I'm actually tempering it quite a bit. But I don't want to be toxic. I want to be truthful but I don't want to be toxic.

Alan Lazaros

And I do think that a lot of the world's content is either on the toxic, masculine, overly intense side or toxic. You know, super light-hearted, warm and fluffy, and none of that is actually that constructive, because no overly affirming content is not actually going to help you change, because the things that need to change are the things that need to be looked at and the mirrors and insecurity and challenge. And you do need courage and you're not going to build courage unless you admit you're afraid. And you're not going to admit you're afraid unless you actually face what you're afraid of, which you're not going to do if, if I'm just saying, oh, it's all going to work out regardless of what you do, but on the other end of that, it's very toxic. So I told ke I want you to help me understand if and when what I say is toxic. And other than that, I think I just need to lean into all of who I am and hopefully that's a good thing.

Alan Lazaros

But for anyone out there. Courage for me, social courage is the hardest thing in the world. Courage of doing things. I'm afraid of resume, cover letter, linkedin, apply to the job, send the email. I feel like that stuff works for me. I don't feel super afraid of most of that, but what I do feel fearful of is being ostracized or villainized or attacked.

Alan Lazaros

I guess what it comes down to is I think I'm easily villainized and I told Emilia this. I said there's someone, I know who, who kind of hates me. And she said he hates himself, he doesn't hate you, he just he just hates himself. And and try your best not to personalize that. And she knows when she says that, easier said than done, Right. I mean, if anyone out there has ever been hated, when you feel like you didn't deserve it or treated unjustly, when you feel like you don't deserve it, when you're just being yourself, I mean it's oh, yeah, just get over it. It's like Okay, thanks. So For someone in the past like you, kev, who was insecure around really competent people, if you did ego up and villainize, which you didn't. Fortunately, the other person is used to that and it doesn't feel good. And I have a lot of empathy for people like Marcus, who probably have been villainized a lot for literally what's almost no fucking reason to be honest, yeah, I would say probably.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, it's helped me a ton. I mentioned this on an episode, I don't know. This was probably months ago, excuse me. One of our clients is beautiful and intelligent and successful and well-spoken and well-studied and well-researched and has a bunch of certifications and a bunch of degrees and she was kind of riding the struggle bus and her and I were talking and she's like I just don't understand why nobody wants to see me win. It's like because you already look like you've won at everything. That's why unfortunately I empathize with that 10 out of 10.

Alan Lazaros

Well, it helped me understand 10 out of 10.

Kevin Palmieri

I said I've seen that with Alan for so long. That's something I never understood before, but now it's easier to see at least. At least there's the type of human who seems like they have it all together and what's courageous for them. You heard the quote. If you're going to go do a speech, imagine the audience is naked. Imagine everybody is naked you ever heard that before? Or in their underwear or whatever, if you don't want to see their dirty bits. I think the reason people are saying that is because just imagine that they're as insecure as you are, because they are Just not in the way that you think it's something else.

Alan Lazaros

Hello, hello, hello. Nlu listener. Thank you, as always, for listening to Next Level University. Real quick, I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes, that person you're referring to, the degrees and all that stuff. Yes, the thing is they actually are that put?

Kevin Palmieri

together, she's more dialed in than I am for sure.

Alan Lazaros

Well, you know how people say things like well, you know everyone's a mess behind the scenes. The truth is that person probably thinks she's a nightmare, she's a mess. She thinks she's a mess. Is that fair? Yeah, I think I'm a mess Straight up, disaster Like.

Alan Lazaros

But here's the thing People personalize that because they think, well, if you think you're out of shape and you think you're a mess, then what do you think of me? I do think that some of you out there watching or listening could button up a bit, could dial in. It's not personal. It's me versus my potential. That person is comparing to her potential. It's not personal. It's me versus my potential. That person is comparing to her potential.

Alan Lazaros

And what I've come to empathize with is people who aren't comparing to their potential because maybe they can't imagine it. It's really helped me understand. Oh so your comparison set is others. Your comparison set is not. I never had empathy to the extent I do now for people who can't visualize their own bigger, better, brighter future because they don't have the self-belief part, because everyone in the past always acted like they believed in themselves, like people act.

Alan Lazaros

I have one client of mine who's a therapist and she works with many of my clients and she said Alan, you got to understand. The version of her you're coaching is different than the version of her that's behind the scenes, because she's mirroring you and it's so. We all have different parts of ourselves. So if Kevin has a peak performing part, that's naturally going to amplify around Marcus, but that's not who you really are, but that's the only version of you that marcus ever sees. Yep, and and I don't know what level of authentic that actually is and and so we're all sort of socially mirroring and matching each other and triggering each other's insecurities unintentionally, without knowing it. And once you learn that you can start to really work on. Like going into last night's coaching session, I wasn't insecure because I've never taught this before. I know I can teach it. I'm insecure because this is going to be a really big mirror for anyone who hasn't reverse engineered next 30 years, which?

Kevin Palmieri

is just not most people Right. Realistically, I saw this was a breakthrough. For me. This is like a we've talked about it a million times and it's going to seem like it's common sense and it is, but it also isn't. The way I'm looking at it is different. I saw two videos that were just the polar opposites of each other. It was wonderful. One was Andy Frisilla and he said something along the lines of F setting small goals. If you really want to make a big difference, you have to set big goals, and that is true If you have high self-belief. If you have high self-belief, if you have high self-belief, which he very clearly does- Cool, yeah, he does.

Alan Lazaros

The thing is he doesn't know he does.

Kevin Palmieri

I don't think most people do. I didn't until you. I don't think most people know. I don't think, just like I assumed, everybody had low self-belief. This is the way. How can anybody you? This is the way. How can anybody you thought I had low self-belief.

Embracing growth through challenges

Kevin Palmieri

I didn't think it was as high as it is. I didn't think it was as high as it. Then there was another, there was another, there was a podcast that you and I have both been on and he did this little satire skit. It was really funny and it was something along the lines of you know, as long as you believe it, and you grind your face off and this, this, this, and he had like a producer recording it and he's like dude, you're only five episodes in, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. It was just really cool how it was two ends of, kind of both ends of the spectrum.

Kevin Palmieri

But here's the thing when I first started this, I would resonate with that Andy Frisella content, because I didn't know that I had low self-belief. So I would pretend that that's what I needed, when in reality that's not what I needed, not at the beginning. What did you need? I think I needed somebody to just say, kev, just try it. Just throw shit against the wall and see what sticks, just try. Order the mic and then download the thing and just talk into it for a while and see what happens. That I think that because I wouldn't have naturally accomplished this unless I partnered with you. It wouldn't happen. I'm not wired that way. So even at this point, if I was by myself, I still don't know if that content would resonate with me.

Alan Lazaros

I just looked down when you said that I wonder if I have shame around that that's so interesting.

Kevin Palmieri

You definitely do. Yeah, I think you definitely do, because you usually get red when I say that you have faces that you make when I say stuff. You're getting very red right now. I'm sorry to highlight.

Alan Lazaros

No, no, no, you're okay, we're good, yeah, yeah we're good.

Kevin Palmieri

You do this intense stare. When you look at me, you're like and I can usually, yeah, I can usually tell it's like this, is uncomfortable, how do I unlock that man?

Alan Lazaros

It's the truth, but you lean into it.

Kevin Palmieri

It's uncomfortable. Will some people villainize you for it? Yes, but I won't. And I think, at the end of the day, do. I think that's what matters most. Easier said than done, but I'm not going to villainize you for it, and if I don't villainize you for it, nobody else should get the right to villainize you for it either. But again, easier said than done. Yeah, you ever thought of just not being offended by what people? You ever thought of just not caring? Yeah, I considered it. Does it work? No, I considered it. Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

It worked pretty well when I Pretended I didn't care about much. Yeah, yeah, and booze Booze helps, I yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

Booze is helpful, for sure too.

Alan Lazaros

It did help. I we don't talk about this. I know we're off the rails a little bit, I know we gotta go soon, but I had a time in my life that I don't talk about that often. That I think is important to talk about. I I call it my let it ride time. There was a time in my life where I opted out, I opted out of caring and I was like partying and I remember I remember thinking to myself you know what? I'm just gonna not give a shit, I'm just gonna let it ride, let's party, let's do it. You know how freaking unfulfilled I was. It was fun. I remember at one point I was day drinking and I had a pint in my pocket. This was down, we were down the cape. It was fourth of july and I was. We were mini golfing and I was day drinking. Sounds like a blast and honestly.

Alan Lazaros

The truth is. Here's the real truth. It was a blast, but on the surface it was fun and at the time it was fun, but I didn't like my life and I wasn't proud of myself. So, while while my life was awesome money, beautiful girlfriend I mean just having a blast down the Cape with all my buddies and their girlfriends I mean we had a fucking blast straight up. It was awesome.

Alan Lazaros

However, I was out of shape. I wasn't getting in any better shape. I was drinking too much and too often and the jokes were great and all that, but I was hung over sometime and I just I remember the time when I sort of gave up. There was a short time in my life where I kind of gave up. Now let's contrast this with a time in my life where I really I really felt like I was reaching my potential. You can even hear it in my voice how excited I get when I think about this. When I was in college college I quit drinking for like a three month period and I I told you the story before kev, but it's been a long time I went to the gnc, I went to a bodybuilding supplement store and the dude now I realized the dude behind the counter was definitely on step runs 100. You ever go to gnc and you ask. You ask hey, what do you? What do you?

Alan Lazaros

take it just this year this protein right here yeah, this protein, c4, a little creatine, you know not a big deal, um, but I remember I, this dude, was jacked six ways to tuesday. He's stud six, four, just massive. And I remember asking like what do you do? And I, I went and I got creatine, I got c4 was one of the pre-workouts and supplement protein, casein versus regular, all this stuff, whey protein, and I lifted and I didn't drink for three months well, didn't he say?

Kevin Palmieri

didn't he say, didn't he ask you about the drink? Yeah, what tell us?

Alan Lazaros

about that later.

Kevin Palmieri

That's what I'm getting that's what I'm getting to, so I go back because my supplements ran out, obviously three months.

Alan Lazaros

You got to go re-up it. It's in milbury, massachusetts. And uh, I tell him I said I made more progress in the last three months than I've ever made in my entire life. Like this is the first time in my life where I felt somewhat jacked and in hindsight I still was not, but again, it's all relative and and at WPI engineering school I was jacked, okay, seriously. So I felt good. I felt really good about my body. I quit drinking.

Alan Lazaros

I remember I was pouring water into my beer cans because I was so sick of being questioned and I made everyone uncomfortable because no one wants to be the sober one, no one wants to talk to the sober kid at the frat party, right? So whatever. And so I'm hydrating with a freaking beer can. The sober kid at the frat party, right, so whatever. And so I'm hydrating with a freaking beer can. And I go back to GNC and I talked to him and I said what do you think it was? Is it the casein? Is it the whey protein? Is it, is it the C4 or is it the creatine? Like, I made more progress in the last three months than I've ever made. And he said well, what else, what else? And I said well, I quit drinking, I stopped drinking. I haven't drank in like three months. This is the longest I've gone without drinking in years.

Courage and fulfillment in life choices

Alan Lazaros

I mean, I'm a college student. He's like dude, dude, it's that, it's 100% that. What he should have said is I don't drink either, which he did say, but I'm also running tests and a lot of steroids. But the point I'm making is I made so much progress when I wasn't boozing and I was just, I remember, feeling so good about myself. That's actually when I met my ex-girlfriend, courtney. That's when so many things were just going well.

Alan Lazaros

I was in my master's program, I was getting, I was crushing it in business, and so my point of that rather than talking about me for five minutes here, my point of that is there was a time in my life where I kind of opted out. I didn't really. I tried to let it ride. I tried to say you know what, screw this reach my potential thing. You know, screw this achievement thing. I'm just going to, I'm just going to have fun. Everyone else seems like they're having so much fun. Let me just have fun. That didn't work for me at all, like it was fun and I had a blast.

Alan Lazaros

But I remember deep down I was so unfulfilled and so my point for everyone out there watching or listening is I didn't have the courage to say you know what, alan? You're never gonna. You're never gonna be fulfilled if you don't start working on yourself. You're never gonna be fulfilled if you don't start working on yourself. You're never going to be fulfilled if you don't quit drinking. You're never going to be fulfilled if you don't start getting your act together.

Alan Lazaros

And I think that you and I sometimes me more than you we have our act together so much in comparison to what we used to, that sometimes I think I forget how off the fucking rails I was at one point in my life because I coach a 25 year old who's way more dialed in than I was at 25, and I just think it's really cool to remind everyone that you don't got to be perfect, but but you got to have the courage to own it. If you don't want to be 10 out of 10 dialed in, don't have the courage to own that. If you do want to be and you're living a lie like I was it's never going to fulfill you. Trust me, I tried.

Kevin Palmieri

One of my favorite things ever when I go on an interview is when the person just says I'm super nervous. It's one of my favorite things in the world. I love that. Love it. I'll never look at somebody different for that. If anything, and if I am going to look at them in a different way, it's going to be a more positive light because at least cool, let's work through it. We'll work through it together. I'm going to do my best to make this as easy as humanly possible. I'm going to make you feel loved and supported and guided and it's going to be fine. We're going to be fine. I very much appreciate it. Somebody said that to me last week and I said I care way more about the person than I care way more about you as a human than how many episodes you have or any of that. If you're a good human, I'm with it. I'm with it. I don't get lost with you in conversation If you're a good human. If you're not, I don't really care about much else, especially at this point.

Alan Lazaros

Well, I would define not a good human as a toxic bully. Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, toxic human as a toxic bully? Yeah, yeah, toxic bully. Yeah, you're either good for the world, you're either good for the world or you're not. I don't know if there's there's any. Did you ever? This would be a quick bodybuilding flashback and then we'll get out of here. Did you ever take cell tech? Was that before your days?

Alan Lazaros

yeah, I didn't. I I did c4, c4, that that was Cellucor or whatever.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, I don't know. So, celltech this was in the, this was I was working at.

Alan Lazaros

Some shady supplements back in the day, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

I was literally going to Google it. I think this was like 2009, 10. This was 15 years ago almost. There was definitely some illegal shit in that. I mean you could, you could go to gnc I mean nobody really ordered much on the internet at that point. You could go to gnc, you could get a big five pound tub for 50 bucks or whatever it was, and it was everything was legal. It was all legal. And I remember when I took that I one summer, I I got fucking jacked.

Kevin Palmieri

I was jacked my traps. So for those who don't know what the traps are, it's the muscle that connects from your shoulder to your neck. They were massive. I became a man after taking Celltech and then I think it came out eventually where it was like yeah, there was some stuff in there that wasn't supposed to be in there. So I've never taken steroids but Celltech. They had whatever was in cell tech back in the day oh, I don't know I don't know, but me and my buddy would.

Kevin Palmieri

We would go to the gym. I would work 11 to 7 at the hospital. This is when I was working at the hospital. Then I would go meet my buddy at gold's gym at gold's man, gold's gym in milford. You ever been to the one in milford mass? I've never. I've never been.

Alan Lazaros

I just know Gold's gym, og In Milford. You ever been to the one In Milford Mass? I've never been. I just know Gold's gym, it was OG bodybuilding it was the.

Kevin Palmieri

That was the best gym In the area at the time. It was massive, there was a sauna, it was awesome, nice, and we would go work out For a couple hours. We'd go sit in the sauna, do pushups and situps, going to pass out, and that was that. Was it simpler times back?

Alan Lazaros

then, yeah, it was simpler times, yeah simpler times.

Kevin Palmieri

Last thing the thing that you are the most comfortable, familiar and competent with is probably the thing that requires the least courage. That was always a weird thing when I, when I would travel for work, I would go to a different gym almost every week and then I remember thinking about it. I was like how weird is it that I go to a different gym every week and I don't even think about it Like where's the closest gym? Yeah, how much is it? That's a very that can be a very challenging thing to do if there's any self-consciousness around fitness and exercise there's any self self-consciousness around fitness and exercise.

Alan Lazaros

I had a thought earlier today we'll go quick because this is about courage.

Kevin Palmieri

But I had a thought today of we're on camera every day and I look like shit right now for sure I do, I, I would say we could take better care of ourselves and we're on our way to that, yeah we need to, but I was thinking to myself.

Alan Lazaros

I remember when being on camera was very new yeah, yeah so everything, everything good in life, is on the other side of courage for sure, I think what everyone's afraid two types of people in the world. There's people who are afraid and then there's liars. Uh, I'm being playful, but seriously, everyone's afraid what I've very much found out in coaching people we are afraid of very different things. We're not afraid of the same thing. Not everyone's afraid of public speaking, believe it or not. Uh, not everyone's afraid of Money. Not everyone's afraid of being fail, like failing not everyone's afraid of failure.

Alan Lazaros

Not even I don't feel afraid of failure at all. I don't. I fail all the time. I'm I'm definitely afraid of failure at all. I fail all the time. I'm definitely afraid of success. And so, just understanding yourself and what you're afraid of and what triggers you and what makes you insecure, and what you're actually insecure about. Some people are insecure about being more than. Some people are insecure about being less than. Some people are insecure about being a movie buff. Some people are insecure about the car they drive. Some people are insecure about the home they live in. There's no one who's not insecure, it's just. What are you actually insecure about? And then, what is your reaction to that? And how do you lean into courage, because courage is the universal thing. The fears are different, but courage is the thing we all need.

Kevin Palmieri

If you want to continue to lean into courage. Seven days a week. Make sure you are subscribed on whatever platform you are watching or listening to us. On that way, you never miss an opportunity to get to the next level. If you're on Spotify, I think it's follow. If you're on Apple Podcasts, I think it's also follow. And then on YouTube, subscribe, turn on notifications. All of that happy jazz.

Outro

Alan Lazaros

If anyone. So I've changed my framework that I use for coaching very high level. It's goals, metrics, priorities, habits, skills and identity. Those are the ones that I have it boiled down to. I've been mentoring for 10 years, coaching for eight hundreds of individuals 28 currently. I do weekly, biweekly and monthly, and then I have a couple people who are playfully out of their minds who do twice a week, and then I have a couple people who are playfully out of their minds who do twice a week. The amount of time and effort that I've spent helping people be both externally successful and internally fulfilled, which those two together don't come hand in hand. Often I've been on both sides. I've been externally successful and wildly unfulfilled. You heard a little bit about that. I've also been super internally fulfilled and wildly unsuccessful externally. So doing them both is actually very difficult. I will help you. Goals, metrics, priorities, skills, habits and identity. That's the main things that we'll dial in together, and so much more. So just reach out the first one's free, dial them in as always.

Kevin Palmieri

we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. And at NLU we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow. Talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host