Next Level University

When Is Thinking The Best Use Of Your Time? (1924)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 28:27

Strategic thinking and deliberate planning are game-changers for personal and professional growth. In this episode, Kevin and Alan reveal why carving out time to think deeply can lead to breakthroughs. Learn how working on your life instead of just in it unlocks new possibilities. Through personal stories of trial and error and safe brainstorming, they share practical strategies for refining your approach and achieving big goals.

Link mentioned:
Subscribe & follow -  https://www.buzzsprout.com/742955/share

______________________

NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

_______________________

Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level 5 To Thrive (free course) - ​​https://bit.ly/3xffver
Next Level U Book Club - https://bit.ly/3BQBYDr
Next Level Monthly Meet-up:  https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/monthly-meetups/

_______________________

We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

_______________________

Show notes:
(2:17) Insights from years of daily masterminds
(7:18) Why reflection is key to progress
(13:57) Creativity and productivity
(16:06) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(19:18) Awareness Vs. Action
(24:20) Learning by doing
(27:44) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

that's why hyperconscious was such a big thing. I never worked on my life. I worked in it. I was really good at working in my life, but I didn't know there was no plan, there was no blueprint, there was no intention, there was no awareness. I didn't know. How do I know if what I'm doing is right? I don't really. I just know that I'm doing.

Alan Lazaros

Better uses of our time, effort. Money is if we talk about it and make some decisions and create some principles and new morning routines, you know, new schedules. I'm going to do 11 to 7. Okay, what are we going to stop doing? What are we going to start doing? What are we going to do better? What are we going to improve? Okay, we need to redo the website. Okay, boom, boom. I just wonder if it's the unsung hero.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

level up your life love, health and wealth. We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1924. When is thinking the best use of your time?

Insights from years of daily masterminds

Kevin Palmieri

I was on a podcast the other day, as I am often Shout out to the amazing Laura for getting us on so many amazing shows. Laura, laura, and you get the question all the time what has made the biggest difference? What are some books that have impacted you? What are some podcast episodes that have impacted you? All very, very, very good questions. And I said honestly, I think one of the things that I am afraid to share, because I don't know how to make it valuable for the audience, is Alan and I have been having deep conversations and masterminding every day pretty much for the last eight years and sundays, but not sundays so yeah, let's say six days, six days a week five days a week minimum and many sundays, honestly, yeah, yeah, especially in the early days because sunday back then I don't think there was any boundaries.

Alan Lazaros

Boundaries when you and I got into serious relationships.

Kevin Palmieri

It was like, hey, we need to have a, we definitely need to have a day yeah but I said, I don't really know how you can replicate that, because I have a business partner and a best friend and we he's more into growth than I am and he's learning more than I am, so it's it's this beautiful thing that we have going on, but there's something about sitting down and then just talking about stuff out loud with someone whether you're just using them as a sounding board or whether you're pitching and catching or whatever it is because you can accomplish so much in such little time in terms of setting up the framework, setting up the wire frame, setting up the, the what's. When you build a house, what do you put up first? Not the foundation, yeah, but what's the other thing?

Kevin Palmieri

you know, I don't know man I don't know what the yeah, like the framework, I guess, for the for the lack, of lack of better phrasing that you're talking about. The blueprint? No, maybe, maybe that's what I was thinking of.

Alan Lazaros

Well, you have to have a blueprint, and that's done by a civil engineer, slash architect, maybe both, depending on the size of the project. The scope of the work, the scope of work, and then there's the concrete.

Kevin Palmieri

I think we just give up because I don't know it's not going to come. It depends where too oh framing, framing. You frame a house. Okay, there you go.

Alan Lazaros

You frame the house we both coach someone who builds barn dominiums and houses and we should know.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, he'd be ashamed of me for not knowing that.

Alan Lazaros

I know how to help him run the business. I don't know how to build houses.

Kevin Palmieri

I could build some stuff, but He'd be ashamed of me for not knowing that I know how to help him run the business. I don't know how to build houses. I could build some stuff, but not well. Youtube's a hell of a. You go on YouTube, you can learn pretty much anything With enough time yeah, with enough time. We used to have the running joke Alan and I had Mondays blocked off to record, so you couldn't book a call with us on Mondays. It was just every Monday from 11 am to 7 pm was blocked off and Tara and I have a running joke. We'd get to the end of the day and I'd walk out of the office and she'd be like how many episodes did you get done? We got one done today, so you got one episode done in nine hours or eight hours.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, no, yeah a lot of deep talks about the business and strategizing but, honestly, at times it was more important for us to mastermind and talk about stuff, because we were setting up stuff years and years down the line that we just finished our 16th round of group coaching and it was the first time we had all podcasters. That is something that we've wanted to happen and we've talked about in the past and we laid the groundwork and the framework and now that's just happening. But those are almost everything you see today was conversations. That happened a long time ago and you need space for that. You need space to think and you need space to have deep conversations. And we used to be part of a bunch of different masterminds and we would do calls with people and, honestly, I never felt like and if any of you are listening, I don't mean this in a negative way I never felt like they were super valuable because it was always all over the place. When I want to talk about, like, the stuff that we're doing specifically, I want to talk about that.

Kevin Palmieri

So it's not that they weren't valuable and it's not that the people in the masterminds didn't have really good ideas and and great experience and all that. It just wasn't as specific to what we were doing as I wanted, and that's essentially what you and I have been doing for the last however many years in hindsight, it's very clear to me that they are less valuable than I thought, but probably more valuable than you thought. Well, I think who's there plays a huge role in it.

Why reflection is key to progress

Alan Lazaros

Emilia always asks. She said and I've said this before sometimes I feel like I help other people work on their life and redesign their life, and redesign their systems and metrics and habits and skills and identity and priorities more than my own. Sometimes it feels like I can't get enough time behind the scenes and I know this is a limiting belief like I could really make some progress. So, kevin and I, how many episodes were we supposed to record?

Kevin Palmieri

today. We're supposed to record five episodes today and we've gotten two.

Alan Lazaros

This will be the second. Yes, this will be the second. Okay, now that sounds like a massive failure. It is, and it is, and it is depending on which frame you look from. But what we have done that I think often goes under valued and unseen is how many hours have you and I spent contemplating 2025, 2024, what we're gonna do differently? I mean, I'm doing a lot of thinking about what needs to change, and it's not easy. There's a million options. We could change anything. We could change everything. We could change everything we want. We could move, we could decide to, can this. So it's very hard to figure out what to do and what not to do. That's a lot of cognitive labor, is what it's called, and I I just don't think we talk a lot about how much.

Kevin Palmieri

That's so fucking important well, I think a really good explanation or really good measurement is, for every minute of us on the podcast, there is at least one minute of us masterminding about something minimum at least, if not, if not more, and that's. But again, you, you don't see that because that's behind the scenes, that's, that's the thing that I think is super hard to to equate for what's let's let's this, let's connect the dots Everything that we have created at one point was a conversation, at one point was a thought.

Alan Lazaros

There's an Emerson quote where he says the ancestor of every action is a thought, and the ancestor of everything that you achieve is a conversation or a thought process or a principle or some breakthrough or whatever. And I told kev before this episode, I wanted to talk about how, when you grow and you evolve, it's the movie didn't change, you changed. The book didn't change, you changed. The relationship didn't change, you changed. The book didn't change, you changed. The relationship didn't change, you changed. And so when you go into old environments as a new version of yourself, it's because of the accumulated compound effect of all these masterminds, all these conversations.

Alan Lazaros

And I was on with someone recently on a breakthrough session. He was talking about the curse of knowledge and I said well, what do you mean? And I thought I knew what he meant, but I wanted to make sure. And he said the curse of knowledge is you can't remember what it's like not to know that, like when you're a kid, everything's new. Remember the first time you ever rode a bike? Remember the first time you ever saw a mountain? Remember the first time you ever saw a movie? Remember the first time it's like, oh, that's the first time I ever saw a tree of that size. When you're an adult, there's very there's a lot less first times. Yeah, and here's, here's one that everyone can relate to the first time you ever had sex, that was a whole freaking thing different than I expected, for sure and a little different than you see it in the movies, right.

Alan Lazaros

but you become an adult and we're in our mid thirties now and it's there's very little that's brand new. And so, bringing this back, thinking and contemplating and reflection, I always say knowledge plus experience plus reflection equals wisdom. And as you get wiser and older, I mean, let's take the last and older I mean, let's take the last 36 years of our life, 35 in your case.

Alan Lazaros

You're 35, I'm 35 years of age. Yeah, maybe march or something. When was your august? August, my, my bad, I don't care. Okay, all right. So, uh, but seriously, let's take the last 35 years and reinvest them into the 36th year. That's so we've been in business now for coming up on eight years.

Alan Lazaros

So 2025 started in 2017. We're going to take the last seven to eight years worth of knowledge, experience and reflection and try to do 2025 way freaking better than we did before. Like, what's the difference between Kevin and Alan in 2025 as Kevin and Alan in 2017? Kevin and Alan in 2017 didn't have a clue what they were doing compared to us now, and so, but the point that I'm making there is that the only way that we implement better, more effectively, better uses of our time, effort, money is if we talk about it and make some decisions and create some principles and new morning routines. You know, new schedules.

Alan Lazaros

I'm going to do 11 to 7. Okay, what are we going to stop doing? What are we going to start doing? What are we going to do better? What are we going to improve? Okay, we need to redo the website. Okay, boom, boom, boom. I just wonder if it's the unsung hero, this work that we did all day today with nothing to show for it in the physical world supposed to get five episodes done, only got two. That is the unsung hero of manifesting your goals and dreams there's.

Kevin Palmieri

There's a lot of business sayings that cross over nicely to life, but I think one of the best ones is and I think I probably learned this from you or a book that you recommended working on your business versus working in your business. So essentially, working on your life versus working in your life. I told Alan this I had a call with a client the other day and he said dude, it's so hard to explain Like I'm doing so much, but when I do stuff, it creates more stuff for me to do. And I never stopped to think of, like, how to stop the treadmill. And I said so you're so busy mopping the basement that you forget to turn off the faucet upstairs. And he's like dude, exactly no-transcript.

Kevin Palmieri

And I was on calls back to back all day and there was a season for that. It was really good. And now I have like three or four calls a day. Some days I have eight, but I have time in between calls to like oh yeah, I should really reach out to that person. I haven't talked to that person in a minute.

Kevin Palmieri

Or I had an idea that I brought up to Alan Like hey, what do you think of this? Oh yeah, that's it's time for us to do that. Just, I'm able to be creative and there's certain things about creativity that I'm just not able to practice. When I'm back to back, just mayhem. So there's something to be said. There's something to be said for taking a little bit of time just to think. As weird and maybe arrogant as it may sound, there's so much there. If you're so busy doing, doing, doing, it might be beneficial to take an hour and just think about the things that you're doing, just like if all you're doing is thinking and thinking and thinking, you probably need to put more time into doing. It's that juggling act always.

Alan Lazaros

What's your doing to thinking ratio Ratio? I think my doing is 90%, 10% thinking it's two, it's off. I think an 80-20 would be better. How many of the things that we've achieved Were, at one point, just a conversation? Well, the unsung hero. And that brings me to this, which is Does everyone out there Watching or listening have someone to do this with?

Kevin Palmieri

I think the answer is probably no.

Alan Lazaros

A safe space to. I playfully said this on group coaching. I said Kevin has come to me with some atrocious business ideas 100%.

Kevin Palmieri

But as I will continue to do, of course.

Alan Lazaros

But some hit.

Kevin Palmieri

Some hit. A couple of them were like that's a good idea. Kev, Few, Few and far between.

Alan Lazaros

I always know it's going to be a good idea when he says all right, so let me fuck you up with the truth, or he'll say something like all right, now, don't judge me for this. This could be the smartest thing you've ever heard.

Kevin Palmieri

that's what I know it's my belief is that it's so smart, you're just not there yet, that's my belief, it's just so many layers above your comprehension that you just can't see the value in it yet.

Alan Lazaros

Maybe one day if I keep trying one day I could think of at least one where that wasn't the case.

Alan Lazaros

Hello, hello, hello. Nlu listener. Thank you as always for listening to next level university real quick. I just want to jump in and let you know about the next level dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes.

Alan Lazaros

Kev, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm kidding, no, but but energetically, do you have a safe space to brainstorm where you can throw the show notes? Kev, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm kidding, no, but energetically, do you have a safe space to brainstorm where you can throw shit at the wall and not be judged? And I think that that's just so critical. And that's what coaching is too. So again, unapologetic plug here for one-on-one coaching.

Alan Lazaros

Imagine an hour every other week where you're just brainstorming. You're working on your life instead of in it. That's what we do. We do. We're not I'm not, you're not showing up to the coaching session, actually doing manual tasks. You're not doing your task list, you're not. You're not executing the thing. We're just contemplating and working on your life. We're redesigning the blueprint of the house instead of actually building it, and you're going to end up and this I need to share this there's something called prudence, which is the ability to make the right decision, and that's only after massive brainstorming and strategic thinking. If you go to build a house without a blueprint, can you imagine it's going to be a hot garbage?

Alan Lazaros

house oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's going to be atrocious, right. So in a lot of our lives, I think this is why young people have. I'll speak for myself. I, in my early twenties, I had a really hard time. I was very unfulfilled. My life was a shit show. It was and again, not compared to other 20 year olds. But too many friends, too many barbecues, too many parties, too many people, too many okay. House, college, okay. High school, college, friends, corporate okay. Too many jobs, too many opportunities. It was too much. And I remember I had my boss's boss. His name was Brian Boatner and I remember he was very put together. He always showed up to the office early. He always got there before me uh, always left later than me. I'm kidding. I had flex hours. I got to go in 11, leave at three and I worked from home in between games of call of duty I'm kidding uh, really sort of, but, but occasionally in sales when you're hitting your numbers.

Alan Lazaros

you're good but anyways. So I was not well put together and it bothered me and I didn't have a well-designed life, and the reason why is because I wasn't working. I didn't study productivity. I didn't study. I wish I had studied these things. The NLU is working on your life, not in it. If anyone out there watching or listening to this, you're working on your life right now. This is getting you to think about new ways to reinvent yourself and to reinvent your life. Like you're not going to trust a company to go manufacture a new computer without any blueprint, without any thought processes, without a good manufacturing facility, without Yet we trust ourselves to just wing it.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, isn't working on it. Awareness. I like I really gonna make this land working on your life is awareness. You're looking down on it literally like picking it apart. You're looking at it's like an assembly line and then working in it is implementation, and usually people are really good at one or the other. People are really good at at one or the other. People are really good at one or the other.

Kevin Palmieri

Maybe you're a super philosopher and you like to hang out and just have deep-ass conversations about everything, but you don't do anything with it or you don't do enough with it. I'm not saying you don't do anything with it. Or you're somebody who's just really good at taking action and when somebody says, yeah, if you want X result, you just do this, this, this and this, and you just do it. That was me. Just tell me how to do it and I'll go do it. But I didn't have the awareness. That's why hyperconscious was such a big thing.

Kevin Palmieri

I never worked on my life. I worked in it. I was really good at working in my life, but I didn't know there was no plan, there was no blueprint, there was no intention. There was no blueprint, there was no intention, there was no awareness. I didn't know. How do I know if what I'm doing is right? I don't really. I just know that I'm doing and I think that's a really good for me, at least, that's a really good way to think about it. Awareness is working on your life. You're becoming more capable of turning the right screws and cutting the right wires and adding the right ingredients. And then working in your life is when you go down into the maze and start doing stuff like okay, now I know this button does this, let me hit that, let me do this, let me do this. But it's got to come from a place of awareness first, I never told you this story before, oh boy.

Alan Lazaros

But when I was in la I lived with a buddy of mine and he would have they. I was trying to work in show business makes sense business and my roommate was working on being an actor and he had an actor friend who had been in the show Entourage and I don't think he had a main role but he was in it and they would always talk about acting and acting is really cool to talk about. I mean you're basically being a different person. How cool right you get to go into their mindset and their belief system and their insecurities. You have to. I mean, acting is a whole thing and there's different archetypes of the warrior and all this stuff.

Alan Lazaros

Apparently I'm the warrior, but the basically someone who's relentless and unreasonably driven and no one likes that person, the turtle the turtle, no, uh, I would say, in some ways you probably are the archetype of the warrior, but probably not, sometimes like I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri

That would be like small warrior. That's me, I'm small warrior, small warrior that will be your new nickname.

Alan Lazaros

That's my name.

Alan Lazaros

But anyway so they would. I remember this vividly. I was searching for a job out there. I was in college debt, I needed to make money and I was applying to at least 10 jobs a day, if not more. And I remember I would come out from work and I would see them smoking weed, just philosophizing about acting, and I remember thinking this in my head, but I was too much of a coward to ever say it out loud it's like you guys really are talking a lot more than you're walking here, like if you went and applied to auditions and like when, if you went on more auditions and actually put in the work, you guys would be much more likely to succeed. I just applied to 10 jobs and I had a bunch of interviews.

Alan Lazaros

People say work smart, not hard. I think that's inaccurate. I do, I do. I think that you need both. I'm convinced of it, because usually you don't work smart. Smart, I mean you and I can talk about this eight-year journey. How many little tweaks that are obvious in hindsight. Oh, why don't we just do that? That makes perfect sense. But we already beat our head against the wall for two and a half years doing it wrong before we did it more optimally, and so are you on the end optimally, and so are you on the end of anyone watching or listening. Are you on the end of?

Alan Lazaros

They would just sit around and they would just talk about acting, and they'd talk about the industry and they'd talk about their craft. And I love it, I'm with it. I love deep conversations too. I I've been doing that a long time and they just smoke weed and talk shit, and they the whole day would go by. And they'd just smoke weed and talk shit and they the whole day would go by.

Learning by doing

Alan Lazaros

And I remember thinking I just applied to 10 jobs. I'm going to be more successful than you guys, not from a negative place, but from a place of like, you can't just talk about acting. You got to go on auditions, you got to go put in, shoot your shot, and, and I think that if you were to put two actors up against each other, one of them goes on 10 auditions a day and the other ones are talking about the craft of acting. The one who goes on 10 auditions a day is going to get a real shot to actually practice the craft of acting. And then, yeah, it's like with being a fighter. You could probably speak to this better than me, but it doesn't matter how many times you yeah, you got to hit the bag you gotta hit the bag, bag doesn't hit back.

Kevin Palmieri

no, yeah, you got to hit the bag you got to hit the bag, the bag doesn't hit back.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, you got to understand the fundamentals of whatever I don't know, but then you got to get in the ring.

Kevin Palmieri

Got to get in the ring.

Alan Lazaros

And this happens in intimate relationships all the time. Well, I'm not in the place right now where I want to be in an intimate relationship. It's like well, I have one person I'm coaching and he wants to learn how to be better with women and we gotta get you in the ring, we gotta go on dates. You can't just read a book on relationships. We need to actually have you yeah, you're working on.

Kevin Palmieri

You're working on it like when you're reading books, but you gotta go do it. You can't learn to snowboard on YouTube. I tried, and then I ate shit. You can get an idea. You can build a framework. You can't learn to snowboard on YouTube. I tried and then I ate shit. You can get an idea, you can build a framework, but you can't Imagine trying to learn how to swim on YouTube. Again, there's things you can do, but you're never going to know unless you jump in the pool.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, and it might work.

Kevin Palmieri

It might work. You might say, oh yeah, I did exactly what the person told me and it works. But you'll never know until you jump in the pool Real quick before we go, because I know we have to go. I watched an interview with Jason Segel. You know Jason Segel.

Alan Lazaros

Forgetting, sarah Marshall, yeah yeah, he.

Kevin Palmieri

So he wrote I'm pretty sure he wrote Forgetting Sarah Marshall and there's a scene where he gets broken up with while he's just naked Full frontal male nudity naked. That actually happened to him in real life and he got broken up with while he was naked and he literally said he's like as much as it sucked in the moment. There was also the actor and writer part of me that was like this is going to make for a really funny scene in a movie. And when they started doing the, or I guess when he was pitching the idea of the movie, he in a movie and when they started doing them, or I guess when he was pitching the idea of the movie, he said this scene has to be in it, nice. And he also, when he was going through something I don't remember exactly what it was he wrote a Dracula musical.

Kevin Palmieri

That Dracula musical in Forgetting Sarah Marshall is real. That's not made up for the movie. That's something he wrote and was trying to do as a side project. Seems like a very interesting character. So, and also, how did the dracula musical do? Pretty good, didn't do well, yeah, no, the guy he brought it to said you can't show anybody this. This is terrible. You can't show anything ever.

Alan Lazaros

You can't ever show anybody this I know we gotta go, but being out in la, I will say I again, I. There were a few fairly famous. One of the guys was in fast and furious that I partied with. It's it's a trip. It's interesting behind the scenes, is a trip for sure I'm not necessarily saying it's great.

Alan Lazaros

I I wasn't a fan of la personally, but I I lived. You know you, you walk out of my apartment, you look to the left. You can see the hollywood sign and sunset boulevard is right to the left and the other way is potentially dangerous. It's a trip and if you've ever been it's it can be fun. But yeah, it's uh, behind the scenes, the ideation prior, with these people in the industry and all that it's it's so much goes into everything that no one sees. I think that's the thing. There's so much beneath the iceberg and it's so much different beneath the iceberg than it is from the outside in I've been to la once.

Kevin Palmieri

I would rather live beneath the iceberg than it is from the outside in. I've been to LA once. I would rather live on the bottom of somebody's shoe than live in LA.

Alan Lazaros

Not a fan.

Kevin Palmieri

Again, if you live in LA, I'm not throwing shade at you, it just depressed me. It depressed me. I'm not a fan either, my friend, but I know you know not everybody wants to live in snowy New Hampshire or snowy New England either.

Alan Lazaros

All right.

Kevin Palmieri

As always, we got to go, we got to party. We love you. We appreciate you. Grateful for each and every one of you. Nlu, we don't have fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow. Talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us for another episode. Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host