Next Level University

What If The Only Way To Find The Line Is To Go Beyond It? (1925)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Are you avoiding challenges that could make you stronger? In today’s episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros explore how pushing your limits unlocks personal growth. From overcoming failures to using pain as a motivator, they share real-life stories and insights about embracing resistance. Learn how to find your “line” without going too far and why feedback—whether too little or too much—can guide your journey.

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Next Level U Book Club - https://bit.ly/3BQBYDr
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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:54) The six-minute mile story
(6:57) Why discomfort leads to change
(10:08) Neuroscience behind habits and resistance
(13:18) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we're giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/49SyVHz
(16:21) The value of feedback loops
(20:47) Balancing effort for optimal growth
(24:33) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

if you're playing a video game and it's too easy, you're not growing, You're not getting any better, you just go through. It's like, ah, there's a guy there, Shoot, boom, boom. It's not. You're not improving. If there's not resistance, you're not improving. I think it's that simple. But I also understand sometimes you want to, you want it to be easy if you've been riding the struggle bus. But I think future you will thank you for progressively increasing resistance over time.

Alan Lazaros

Listen, if you aren't pushing yourself to the limit, you're not going to find out information that you need and you're not going to have the necessity to actually improve and change. Innovation is on the other side of massive pain and frustration.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,925, what if the only way to find the line is to go beyond it? I'll never forget Alan and I were in the gym one day and we were talking about running. This was back in the day where we didn't have, there wasn't that much to do. We were podcasting, we were entrepreneurs. In comparison, in comparison, yeah, but I mean, there really wasn't that much to do all things considered.

Alan Lazaros

Compared to anything.

Kevin Palmieri

It doesn't matter when I tell the story, it'll make sense. It doesn't seem like you guys had a lot going on. We were probably an hour and a half.

Alan Lazaros

I had no idea why we weren't successful.

Kevin Palmieri

No idea I couldn't figure it out either.

Alan Lazaros

Now it makes sense, but at the time it didn't.

The six-minute mile story

Kevin Palmieri

We were into our workout and we were talking about running for some reason and you've heard us talk about this, but I think this is a really good example and we were talking about a six minute mile and I was like I could definitely do a six minute mile, for sure, probably wouldn't be that hard. I had no context, really, I didn't understand. And alan's like yeah, so let's go to the track and we'll do it. I was like yeah, man, I get shit to do, let's do it. And we set the timer, we're gonna do a little warm-up, a little stretching, and then we start the, we start the run and I think one of the very few times where you've been arrogant, one of the very few that was arrogant as hell.

Kevin Palmieri

I was definitely I was. I was misinformed and overconfident, which I think is is arrogant in a nutshell, when you think you're better than you really are which I, which I did, and the track don't care. The track didn't care.

Alan Lazaros

Let's go right now, man, I made it what?

Kevin Palmieri

Three, three, yeah, so I made it three quarters of the way.

Alan Lazaros

Almost. Almost three quarters of the way, so it's four laps and you made it through three quarters of the third lap.

Kevin Palmieri

Three quarters of the third lap.

Kevin Palmieri

So like 2.75 percent 2.75 and then I, just like my body was just like that's we're, we're good, that's enough. We need to lay down now. And that was it. And I was very, very, very humbled by that. But I found my limit, I found my limit by trying to do that. Sometimes, I think the only way to find the limit, to find the boundary, to find what you're capable of, is to go right up to the line, if not cross it. I remember when I was young I had a rat tail. Shout out to all those youngins who had a rat tail, or adults if you're still rocking a rat tail.

Alan Lazaros

What was that? Was that a Jedi thing? Excuse that a Jedi thing, excuse me. Jedi's have Phantom Menace, the first Star Wars movie.

Kevin Palmieri

I've never seen it.

Alan Lazaros

I know, I know.

Kevin Palmieri

No, no, no, that was. They have rat tails, so maybe that's why I have no idea. No, no, no, no, no, no, no no cool.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, but maybe you thought it was cool because you saw someone else who thought it was cool, who saw star wars maybe have you again.

Kevin Palmieri

I was a trend real quick.

Alan Lazaros

Have you noticed the trend with the youngins, the younglings with crocs?

Kevin Palmieri

these days crocs in the gym. Yeah, I somebody calls them. Somebody calls the young kids at the gym broccoli heads because everybody has like giant curly hair.

Alan Lazaros

Now I don't know and they're bringing the mullet back for some reason with curly hair. Yeah, it's coming, it's coming back why crocs and mullets and big curly hair? Yeah, that's.

Kevin Palmieri

I feel like it's been interesting if you're confident enough to rock a mullet I support you. Don't wear with it don't wear crocs to the gym, though. You drop weight on that. You drop a weight on. I mean you're already Jeffed, but you're extra Jeffed.

Alan Lazaros

It's not just that, there's just very little utility in wearing Crocs to the gym. I have sneakers that are. I actually can tell when my knee sneakers are on their way out this struggle bus. I'm doing the sled and such. You can't do that in Crocs. You can't get after it in.

Kevin Palmieri

Crocs. Well, I mean, you can do heavy bench and you can do yeah, you can do a lot in Crocs son Legs.

Alan Lazaros

You can do legs in Crocs.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, so the difference between doing legs in Crocs and legs in legs. I don't, Taryn bought me these really nice squat shoes for my birthday. No, that's awesome. Has it been four months?

Alan Lazaros

already.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, I think she bought them for my birthday. It's amazing my leg days have been so much better because of those Nice. Let me get back to the point. Oh. So when I was young, my mom, I swore at my mom and she said swear at me again. I'm going to cut your rat tail off. And I said you're not going to do shit. And she cut my rat tail off.

Alan Lazaros

It was devastating.

Kevin Palmieri

I put it in a bag Because I was like maybe if I hold it close to my head it'll grow back, didn't? But I found the line it's kind of messed up. It was kind of messed up. She also put soap in my mouth one time because I swore at her and she said do it again. She always gave me an opportunity not to make it happen. She said do it again or I'm going to put soap in your mouth. You wouldn't dare. Dish soap does not taste good. It wasn't a bar soap, it was dish soap and again.

Kevin Palmieri

I deserved it because I was a little arsehole. I don't know man, I deserved it. I don't know. I was asking.

Alan Lazaros

A little conscious parenting could have been done.

Why discomfort leads to change

Kevin Palmieri

Well, yeah, I mean again, all things considered, but I did ask for it. But I think that's a funny example that sometimes the only way to find the line is to go past it and then then you know when you do it. But you, you have an example that is maybe more appropriate slash specific for the audience. But I want to open with that well, a couple good things happen.

Alan Lazaros

When you red line, find the line, go past the line. And I'm not saying to, I don't think going past the line in a reckless way is intelligent. So I'm not saying to drink and drive or anything like that, that's not what we're talking about.

Alan Lazaros

We're talking about finding your potential, and so I think the running is a is a good example. And so kev was like, yeah, let's go, let's do it. Six minute mile, no problem. And I'm like, dude, no chance, let's do it, let's see how it goes. And he collapsed three, three quarters through the third lap and I was hammering with all I had and I got a 617. I'll never forget it because I was trying my best to get six and I just could not do it and insert excuse here it. It was cold. We had already worked out for an hour and 45 minutes, whatever, whatever, whatever it's. But here's what. Here's the benefits of finding the line, passing the line, new perspective, okay. So Kev will never get cocky with running again.

Kevin Palmieri

No, quite the opposite.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, that's good, okay, so. And then the other thing is now you appreciate runners at a different level. I was reading yesterday the art of thinking clearly we do that book in book club and it's talking about anchors. And I was talking to kev recently, two episodes ago or something like that, where I said, if I say a 600 pound deadlift, I remember we interviewed someone who did a 600 pound deadlift and we had to really provide context to anyone who doesn't deadlift of like how bad that would kill you if you tried to do that. And anchors are one of those things where. So kevin and I looked this up, because we I've been talking a lot about the interview with Mark Randolph and Netflix and we looked up Reed Hastings, one of the co-founders of Netflix, and he only owns 2% of the company. That's an anchor for you. Now that's a new data point where now you understand oh okay, so a lot of companies don't retain equity, blah, blah, blah.

Neuroscience behind habits and resistance

Alan Lazaros

My point of all this is that when you redline, when you cross the line, when you push your limits, you find out information you never would have had. You get new perspective you never would have had, and I think this is one of the reasons why most of us have to learn our lessons the hard way. I am, I'm all for reading, I'm all for learning, I'm all for listening to this podcast and I'm all for studying and trying to understand things in advance. I'm all from learning from accumulated wisdom. I don't think you have to learn. I don't think you have to get hit by a car to learn. To look both ways. Metaphorically, however, in business, in success, in dream chasing, in hitting your goals and reaching your potential, if you pull back long before the pain, you're not going to transform as much. Last piece of this They've done studies where they found that there's something called a myelin sheath that is wrapped around the neurons in your brain and when you're a child, you're.

Alan Lazaros

The myelin sheath grows very quickly. You can create new synapses, new connections and the myelin sheath. There's a lot of myelin when you're a kid. That's why kids can learn so many languages so quickly. They're like sponges. They can absorb a lot. So you can't teach an old dog new tricks is a neuroscientific falsity. You can, it's just way harder. And in the neuroscience, if you study this, you can only teach a lot of us out there. Really think about this. Do you ever wonder why it's so fucking hard to change you and I? You're 35, I'm 36. Dude, it's so hard to change.

Kevin Palmieri

I think it depends on what it is Like. What do you mean? What? What specifically?

Alan Lazaros

What specifically? Okay, what's one thing you really struggle with.

Kevin Palmieri

You really just have a fucking hard time.

Alan Lazaros

Doing the dishes every night. Okay, boom, all right. I don't know if that's going to work. Do you do them every night anyway? No, okay, all right, perfect Okay why the fuck don't you do that? Dude, it's not that hard to do the dishes. There are other people out there listening. Go and get it together, kev.

Kevin Palmieri

That's 100 here's the truth. The truth is it's not as important as some of the other stuff I do. Exactly fair, the necessity is not the company's not going to fail because I don't do the dishes. My relationship's not going to fail now if don't do the dishes. My relationship's not going to fail Now if I don't do them for a month.

Alan Lazaros

The necessity, the necessity is just my relationship might be a fail.

Kevin Palmieri

It's not. It's not, there's not enough pain.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, there's not enough pain associated with not doing it. That's what necessity is. And everyone out there I coach the team and 28 clients of 37 individuals, and the reason I'm saying this is because I want you to know I've got behind the scenes, behind the curtain of all these different people from all over the world. Every single one of them, I promise you, every single one of them, absolutely struggles in at least one area. They can't do this thing to save their goddamn life, like everyone myself, emilia, everyone. Here's the deal. There's no one who's good at everything. So my point of all this is pain is the only way human beings really change. That's why you changed after 26 suicidal ideation. That's why I transformed so much after my car accident, because of massive pain and suffering. And if you don't redline, you won't actually change.

At NLU, we want you to win! So, we're giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM.

Alan Lazaros

Kevin and I just talked about a bunch of changes I'm going to make in 2025. Dude, one of the reasons those changes are going to happen is because it finally got to the point where I just can't survive operating the way I'm operating right now, and I just think there's something to be said for no pain, no gain. I'm not saying it in the toxic way most people say it. I'm saying it from a neuroscientific lens of listen. If you aren't pushing yourself to the limit, you're not going to find out information that you need and you're not going to have the necessity to actually improve and change. Innovation is on the other side of massive pain and frustration. Nlu listener, what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know. If you want to get to the next level faster, we have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

The other hard thing to conceptualize is you don't, you don't really know when you're not doing enough Because the feedback is non-existent Until eventually you realize you're not doing enough. It's not a good, there's not a good reaction, there's not a good reminder. But when you're doing quote-unquote too much, you get the reminder almost immediately, but it adjusts what you know you're capable of. What's an example? I was hoping you weren't going to say that Honestly.

Alan Lazaros

It's not an easy concept to explain.

Kevin Palmieri

Exercise. Exercise is a great example. Exercise is a great example. If you're not exercising right now, you almost have zero feedback. That that's not good for you. I know you have almost zero. But if you just you know I'm going to go to the gym seven days a week for three hours, you're going to burn out and you're going to say, well, that was way too much. It just helps you level set better. It just helps you level set because you actually get some level of input when you do nothing. You get no input when you do too much you get too much Sorry.

Kevin Palmieri

Yes, no output, no feedback no feedback.

Kevin Palmieri

When you do nothing, you get no feedback. When you do too much, you get too much feedback. But too much feedback creates a new opportunity for a new behavior when no feedback does it. It's that weird. I hear people say all the time here's how you avoid burnout, and I agree. You don't want to be burnt out for long periods of time. I'm with that. I agree with that. You don't want your entire life to be burnt out. I agree with that. But if you've never experienced it, you don't know what you're truly capable of. And if you don't know what you're truly capable of, you don't know what 50% is. You don't know what 60% is. You don't know what 70% is. That's, I think, what is important to understand. The only way to create an understanding and a perspective is to know the high and the low. And if the low is nothing, you have to know what the high is in order to shoot somewhere in between. That's, I think that's probably the best way I could explain it.

Alan Lazaros

So if you're avoiding failure and frustration, you're also avoiding pushing yourself to where you're going to learn.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, you're avoiding self-awareness. If a car goes 150 miles an hour, no, if a car is capable of going zero miles an hour and I said I want you to drive at 50% of the max speed, what do you do? You don't know, Unless you know what the max speed is. You don't know what 50% is if you don't have the max. You don't know, when I go to the gym, what's my max squat. I need to know that if I'm going to do the percentages Well today.

Alan Lazaros

I'm going to do 70.

Kevin Palmieri

You go. I mean, there's a couple ways to do it.

Alan Lazaros

You go near the line, you go near the line.

Kevin Palmieri

You can do that. Bodybuilding and weightlifting is a little bit different because you can do. You know there's calculators out there. I did 315 pounds for six reps. Put it in an algorithm. It'll say your squat max is probably 365 pounds or something. You can do that Plus or minus 10% or whatever yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

But in life, I think the only way to do it is to go get closer and closer and closer. And then you realize, oh, that's. I'll use the egg sandwich analogy. You want to make an egg sandwich? For those out there who didn't know this, this is what you do. Take two slices of bread. Boom, you want to punch down the bread Inside. Don't mess up the crust. You crack an egg in one, crack an egg in the other. You can throw that bad Larry right in the right in the air fryer. You got an egg sammy. Throw some cheese on that. Whew, bam, avocado. That's the question.

Alan Lazaros

That's the question for what degrees? That's also the second question and it depends on the air fryer it depends on the air fryer, so you gotta experiment a little. There's two things you do you don't.

Kevin Palmieri

You say, ah, two minutes should be good. It ain't. Two minutes is not enough. You throw it in for two minutes. It comes out raw, as Gordon Ramsay would say it's fucking raw. You don't want that. Don't eat raw eggs, probably not good. You put it in there for 25 minutes, that thing's on fire and you're going to have a local emergency in your kitchen. But if you burn it you know that's too much, for too long and you don't do it the same. That it's the recipe.

Alan Lazaros

But in order to know the recipe you have to know what's too much and what's too little, and if you have a negative relationship with frustration and failure, you're going to pump the brakes long before you get most of the lessons, most of the things that we've improved at NLU, or about ourselves. Or I vented to Kev for at least a half an hour today about all the shit I'm messing up. And I'm not a mess up. I'm not any less dialed in than anyone. You know, I'm not the worst. It's not about me. It's here's the level we're at now. Here's the level we're trying to get to in 2025. I'm going to have to make some serious changes if I don't want to keep messing up in the same way, over and over and over and over again. And the only way to improve?

Alan Lazaros

Emilia and I were talking yesterday about something called the aggregation of marginal gains and we went through the entirety of 2024. Last night, we spent an hour and a half together and then we went for a 45 minute walk and the whole thing was us by the fire with the fur babies eating food, talking about 2024, everything new, everything. We did everything. We didn't do everything. We want to do. Everything that changed, everything that was within the year. It's like wait, no, that was 2023. Okay, the road trip was in 2024. Okay, what did we? Okay, we remember I used to have the mazda. Oh, we didn't. Everything and it.

Balancing effort for optimal growth

Alan Lazaros

When you unpack a whole year, it's holy shit, we've accomplished so much. But here's the truth all along the year it felt like an uphill climb, it felt like we were failing and it felt like frustration and it felt like challenges. But when you look back it's holy shit. I can't believe. We used to open and close our own blinds. Now we have these automatic blind openers that are solar panel and there we can talk to Alexa and close and open the blinds.

Kevin Palmieri

I used to.

Alan Lazaros

I used to walk, wake up every day and open the blinds every morning. Now it just happens.

Kevin Palmieri

Now for those out there who still open their open and close their own blinds. I feel you. I do the same thing. Alan loves automation, so I just want to be on tech.

Alan Lazaros

I'm with you, I'm not there yet emilia has a client who said, hey, alexa, throw the lights on to 60. And they they went. It's's like, oh my God, I need it Smart homes. But that's just one of them. We have hundreds, if not a thousand, improvements that we've made.

Alan Lazaros

However, what I really need to make as clear as humanly possible is the majority of the year, it felt like an uphill battle and I think that's the duality. If you feel like you're winning and you're coasting and everything's going well, you're probably not pushing yourself enough. If you feel like all you're ever doing is failing, you're probably pushing yourself too much. But if you're in that sweet spot of okay, I'm a little frustrated, like this is I can do it, I got this, I got this, but goddamn this kind of sucks. But I got this. I think you're in the learning zone. You're in the. You're going to be proud of yourself. Your future self is going to thank you. I've been redlining lately. I've never coached 37 people before and I want to be capable of more and I want to do it in high quantity and high quality. And I've learned so much. In 2024, it's Alan in 2023 knew so much less, understood so much less, was so much less capable was so much worse than Alan. Now and I, I'm excited. I'm excited for 2025.

Kevin Palmieri

I am also. We'll do an episode as we get closer to 2025. I think this is dropping Monday, so, yeah, we have another week before 2025 is here. We'll do an episode on how to jumpstart 2025 or something like that. I went to the gym yesterday. That's the last thing and then we'll get out of here.

Kevin Palmieri

I went to the gym yesterday and I did shoulders and I was talking to one of my buddies at the gym and I said you ever have one of those days you just come in and everything feels light? And he said yeah, of course. Of course we have also been on the other end. Where you come in and everything feels heavy. The days you come in where everything feels light, that's when you push it. Yesterday I did heavier weight. It's like let me see. Let me see I feel good, let me see what happens, because I'm not going to be growing if I'm not encountering resistance.

Kevin Palmieri

I don't like the fact that people say if it's not easy, it's not for you, or it should be easier whatever it is. I think certain things get easier in time and then, if you want to continue growing in that thing, then you add resistance. You, if you want to continue growing in that thing, then you add resistance, you add resistance, you add resistance. I think that's kind of how it works. If you want to improve, like podcasting is easy, it's not that hard anymore.

Kevin Palmieri

But there are ways to make it harder so I can grow more. Don't say um, don't say filler words, tell better stories, make sure we get off on time, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's a million, there's a million improvements, but those improvements make it harder when it gets easy, and I think that's an important thing. If it gets too easy, make it harder. If you're playing a video game and it's too easy, you're not growing, you're not getting any better, you just go through. It's like ah, there's a guy there, shoot, it's not. You're not improving. If there's not resistance, you're not improving. I think it's that simple. But I also understand sometimes you want to. You want it to be easy. If you've been riding the struggle bus, but I think future you will thank you for progressively increasing resistance over time.

Outro

Kevin Palmieri

Nice, you dig very much great episode all right you're a principle you're a purpose. You're a purpose. Principle, as always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at nlu, we don't have fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow keep after it next level nation thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

Thank, you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host