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One Simple Way We Stay Motivated (1931)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What drives you more: chasing dreams or avoiding pain? In this dynamic episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros reveal the secrets behind their success and help you uncover your unique motivators. Discover why necessity is a powerful catalyst, how to gamify your goals for consistency, and how to juggle pain and pleasure to stay on track. This episode offers actionable strategies to power your growth journey from fitness to finances and relationships.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Show notes:
(3:38) The power of necessity in motivation
(6:34) Fitness motivation and identity
(13:09) Gamifying goals to stay motivated
(19:57) Managing abundance and scarcity mindsets
(24:22) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/49SyVHz
(27:14) Leveraging pain for long-term goals
(34:10) Rewards and consequences in motivation
(43:15) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Kevin Palmieri

the interesting thing is, when you do build something like that into your identity, that's what you want to run towards. Maybe I'm not running from a past version of Kev who was out of shape. I'm running towards the identity. Alan told me he said a couple. A couple of my clients have said stuff in passing, like when you post fitness stuff.

Alan Lazaros

I love that.

Kevin Palmieri

The significant part of me is like hell yeah, it's working.

Alan Lazaros

I now realize that you can't be 100% motivated unless you're running from something and running towards something. What I didn't know back then is I am the type of person who tends to run toward things, and that motivates me a lot Not fully, I'll be honest.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus. At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

Health and wealth we bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1931, one Simple Way we Stay Motivated 1,931. One simple way we stay motivated Went on a really cool podcast and it wasn't the typical tell us your story, let's dive into all that.

Kevin Palmieri

It was very much like just rapid fire questions, and those are always fun. I enjoyed that. And one of the questions was you're a bodybuilder. Are you the type of person who's always motivated to go to the gym? Like is the gym your church? Is the gym your obsession? Is that the thing you're always motivated to go to the gym? Like? Is the gym your church? Is the gym your obsession? Is that the thing you're always excited to do? And I said, ah, it's probably about 75, 25, 75% of the time. I'm super excited to go. I literally was watching videos. I've been squatting a lot lately because my knee has been feeling better Awesome. But now my low back is getting tight. What the hell's going on? I was just doing research before you and I logged on here to see if I could figure out what that was, because I'm very excited to do a Saturday morning leg day.

Kevin Palmieri

So if you're listening to this, yesterday morning I went to the gym and did legs, very excited, super excited. Tomorrow it will be very easy for me to get up and go to the gym, but that's probably 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time I don't want to go. I have to force myself to go to the gym.

Kevin Palmieri

And what I said is I said I'm very honest with myself, where I understand that when I'm in better shape I am far more fulfilled. I do like being in better shape and I also feel like I can control that. And it's a real shame if I let myself go Like I just get frustrated with myself, I get down, I'm not as happy, I'm not as fulfilled, I don't feel as next level. There's layers under layers, under layers under layers when it comes to that. So I said I usually use the pain of regret and the pain of disappointment as motivation more than anything else, depending on what it is. But Alan and I were talking about that and we haven't done an episode like this in a minute, so we figured we'd do a an episode on motivation and kind of see where it takes us.

Alan Lazaros

Well, we have an asset called the five M's of motivation. We can go through those briefly, but I think a higher level here. Some people are motivated by I'll use fitness as a metaphor. All of us want to be in better shape. I can't think of a single human being that doesn't want to be in better shape. I don't think that's a thing. Why wouldn't you want to be in better shape? Some people are motivated by looking into the future and going oh crap, I really, really, really don't want to be out of shape, so I'm going to go to the gym. Other people are motivated by I want my dream physique. I remember for the longest time I had my dream physique on my phone background. I remember I got made fun of for that and I'll never forget this. I knew that I achieved it when someone in my life who's kind of a bully- an asshole.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, you can say yeah, he's an a-hole a little bit, a little bit, more than a little bit. And he said, dude, only you would have you on your phone background and I remember being like nice. He thinks that's me, that's so cool, that's like one of the best fitness models on the planet and he thinks it's me that's great. And obviously that was not my actual reaction. My actual reaction was God damn, god damn, I need new friends, but anyways. So are you motivated by the desire to win or are you more motivated by the desire not to lose? And I think that we can use both. I've used the other metaphor of. I was running around the block and there had been a black bear sighting in my neighborhood and I remember I ran much faster that next evening when it was getting dark. But ultimately, why does everyone, not everyone, most people? I said this one time during a speech. I said, ah, I didn't exercise before my wedding, damn, I got to watch what I use for metaphors here. But why is it that most people I'd say 90% of people exercise more? I wish I could have the stats on this, kev. Can you imagine if I could? Every single human being who's ever been married? I wish I could see their fitness stats three months before, two months before, one month before. I bet you there's a huge increase in fitness consistency before weddings, because nobody wants to look bad in their wedding dress. Nobody wants to look bad in their wedding dress, nobody wants to look bad in their tux. I really wish I could find the stats on that. That would be so cool. What a research study that would be. And the reason why is because you're in a public setting. It's a day that's very special to you, very meaningful, and the last thing you want to do is go to your wedding feeling like crap and you're going to use those pictures forever. Exactly. So there's a lot of skin in the game, and this always brings us back to what we always end up talking about, which is necessity.

Alan Lazaros

High Performance Habits, the book. There's six High Performance Habits book by Brendan Burchard. I don't know if it's the first one, but it's one of the six Necessity, and necessity is skin in the game. When you have necessity, you will. You'll just do things that you have to do Necessity to get out of debt. Necessity to make it happen. Necessity to make sure you don't look bad in your wedding dress. Necessity to do the marathon that you promised your friends and family you'd do. You got to put skin in the game. You and I are going to do a 10 pound and 10 week challenge again. We do it apparently every year. It's becoming a tradition and you and I are going to do that eventually again this year. And why are we going to do that? Because it's it puts skin in the game. It's not just about kevin and I, it's about the community, it's. We're not going to let the listeners down, the viewers down, each other down. We might let ourselves down. There's just a lot less motivation when it's just you and there's no consequence.

Kevin Palmieri

I think pain is a great motivator. I do. I think pain's a great motivator. Is it a sustainable one? I don't know. It depends on you, but I said that. I said this to the host today. I said look, our brand is health, wealth and love. So if I end up out of shape, broken, divorced, I'm not going to have a job.

Alan Lazaros

That's our entire, and I was, and we were laughing about it.

Kevin Palmieri

But honestly, one of the reasons I want to have a magnificent relationship is because I won't be able to authentically talk about relationships if I don't. I mean, that's a, really that's a. I said this one time. I think I said it on the podcast, but I said it to Alan. I think I said sometimes it's really hard to have a podcast. That's about being next level, because some days I don't want to be that next level.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, and I would have guilt. I would have guilt around the fact that I didn't. I didn't get a hundred percent of my PPT. I didn't. You know what I really should have read this morning and I didn't. I did something else instead. I would have so much guilt around that.

Kevin Palmieri

Is that guilt always bad? I don't think so. I think it can be used constructively. At the time I wasn't using it constructively. It was more of like a shame. I think it was a shame and just a realization that it's hard to have your entire brand around being better when it's hard to get better every day. It's hard, it's hard to stay consistent with that type of stuff. But I do think necessity coming from pain is probably not the worst thing in the world. I just Okay, let's think about it this way. Let's think about somebody out there who, to Alan's point, somebody who isn't focused on or has no desire to be, any better off financially, any better off in a relationship and any better off in your body. Let's say you're out there. What's under that? Is it? Do you believe that exists?

Alan Lazaros

I think ego can make it exist, I think. But even then, ego is a story you're telling yourself about yourself. It's deep down. I don't think anyone I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri

I think well for this. From this perspective it's. Is it ego? And then what would break the ego If something drastically bad happened to you? Let's say something happened to one of your family members and it was your responsibility to take care of them and you needed to make more money. Would that story go?

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know, I don't know, but sometimes I just wonder if the right amount of necessity hasn't happened to make the ego break yet, depending on what it is. I don't know. I I can't speak for everyone. I know for me I want to have a better relationship, I want to have more money and I want to be in better shape kind of forever. But I don't, I don't know if that's everybody's journey. I imagine everybody wants improvements in those things.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, I imagine who wouldn't want to be healthier, wealthier or more in love? Isn't that what everyone wants?

Kevin Palmieri

I mean that's yeah, unless somebody's just so comfortable in admitting like I just don't want to do any more work on it.

Alan Lazaros

It's like okay, it doesn't mean they don't want to be healthier, wealthier or more in love, but maybe they don't want to be healthier, wealthier and more in love, but maybe they don't want to do what it takes yeah. I think that might exist, but I don't think there's anyone who Like if you could snap your fingers and have. Yeah, it's only a question of whether or not it'll be worth it right, it's hard.

Kevin Palmieri

It's a hard Because, okay, then what's under? I don't know how do you find the right amount of necessity?

Alan Lazaros

We're talking about motivation. So what is your motive for action? Why do anything? This is the existential conversation of why. Okay, why make more money? Well, you can do more, you can give more, you can travel more. There's a million reasons. Well, what's the point? We're all going to die eventually anyway. That's very nihilistic. It's very life has to be more than just solving problems. It has to be more, and I think that, okay, let's say you're playing a video game. I had someone reach out and say I'm so proud of myself. I got rid of the games on my phone. You know who you are. Huge win that one change might save you 500 hours next year.

Alan Lazaros

Who knows, I mean game changer. Right, I was thinking to myself. I used to play video games all the time, way back.

Kevin Palmieri

What a giant waste of time, honestly remember 2018, probably 2018, 2019 I was playing games on my phone when I was pooping straight up keep it on playing well. Angry birds action no, I never got into angry birds everybody else was doing it, so I had to go in the opposite direction and play something probably much worse dumber that nobody had heard of I don't remember what it was.

Kevin Palmieri

some it was like a ball game you had nobody had heard of. I don't remember what it was. It was like a ball game you had to knock down things. I don't remember what it was.

Alan Lazaros

Well, okay, in video games there's a purpose, there's a point, there's a goal. There's always a goal Get more rupees, or beat the level, or beat the boss, or do this quest or level up character points Whatever it is, there's always a goal, and I always try to gamify life for everybody. So I have one client who has gamified YouTube metrics. Well, what's the point? Why win at YouTube? Well, you get to help more people, okay. Well, when you help more people, what? Okay, that makes you feel like you have a meaningful life, you feel like you're making a difference. That's much better than being alone and broke and miserable.

Alan Lazaros

I think we used to talk about this all the time, way back in the hyperconscious days. We always said you never get to hell yes, until you've gone all the way to hell no. Sometimes you got to get to hell, no, because Kevin and I both had mid-20s quarter life crisis and after that it's like, well, we can't go back. So we got to find a way to make this work. We're not going to go back to feeling like we're living unfulfilling, meaningless lives where we're not reaching our potential. I mean, sometimes I do this with clients behind the scenes. I say you got to get off the fence. Are you going to? Is this a mountain you're willing to die on or no? You got to get off the fence. You're not motivated. You're sitting here half in, half out. Do you want to do this thing or not? There's something about half in that's just so unfulfilling.

Alan Lazaros

I'm all for all out. If you want to be all out, go ahead. Quit. It's not worth it to you, that's fine. There's a lot of things that I've quit Purposefully. I have a give up list. I gave up video games, okay, yeah, that makes me sad sometimes. However, saying no to video games allowed me to say yes to my relationship with Emilia, because I know I'd be playing at night. I'd rather say yes to Emilia than yes to video games. That's a choice. It's a conscious choice. So get off the fence. I think a lot of us comes down to clarity and getting off the fence and go ahead. Kev, I'm sorry, no no, you're good.

Kevin Palmieri

Is it as simple as you? Either are running towards something you want more of or running from something you want less of. And you just have to figure out which way you're wired.

Alan Lazaros

And I think we all should leverage both.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I think that's I grew up. So, if I think of it from the perspective of, I grew up without a lot of money and I remember I was working at the gas station and I remember my mom texted me and said it was like something I don't remember they needed to borrow money or something. And I was like I don't remember they needed to borrow money or something. And I was like, yeah, it's time to save the family. Hell, yeah, awesome, I'm the man. But what does that create internally? Like there's not enough.

Kevin Palmieri

I I remember talking about how our rent was a thousand bucks a month. I remember that and I remember we would have conversations around how are we going to pay rent? And then I think, when it went up to 1100, it was like the world was ending. But I remember those conversations when I was young young enough to be impacted by that. So you got to believe in my mind money was going to fix all my problems, because that's where it that's what seemed like the cause of most of my problems. It wasn't right, but it was. It was the cause of some. So I go on this journey to try to figure out how to make money and I can't figure it out. And eventually in my early 20s, I figure it out. Then then you get that feeling and then we do this business thing and we go all the way past zero, all the way back to zero, money, less than zero and just riding the struggle bus.

Alan Lazaros

You can go, right past zero, you can go right past.

Kevin Palmieri

I want to get back to the place where I was making and we are now. We're making more money than we ever have, and I'm very grateful for that, but we're also paying off some of the dumb decisions that we've made in the past to get here so right.

Alan Lazaros

There are very few businesses out there. I want to make this clear to everybody. There are very few businesses out there that are not debt. There are very few humans out there that don't have any well, it's, it's leverage you use.

Alan Lazaros

We're gonna be one of them there's using capital, and then there's using other people's capital. Banks are built on people using their capital and them using other people's capital. So when we say we're on our way out of debt, I don't want anyone to think we're in trouble. What I want them to understand is we used money. I use this example of Netflix, back in the dot-com bubble crashing, was making $5 million a year in revenue gross revenue and they were $50 million in the hole.

Kevin Palmieri

Not good.

Alan Lazaros

And they made it out and that was I mean, that's not good, that's real bad, that's bad, bad tough numbers, yeah those are. Those are not good numbers. Those are tough. Uh, and we're we're. I told kev I said we are not in anywhere near dire straits in business.

Kevin Palmieri

We're okay, we're gonna be fine but well, I just, I just say that because I, I, I don't know. I like to be honest, I like to be transparent with stuff like that, but I very much aspire to get back to the place where I have the awareness that I have now, that I didn't have back then, when I made six figures, I didn't have the awareness of what to do with money. I had no clue what I was doing. Yeah, so I'm running. I think I'm running more towards that than I am away from us at the beginning of this journey. That motivates me more, that inspires me more. I want to be able to get a massage, maybe once a month, nothing crazy, but I know that'll help me operate at the gym better. For for me, a lot of it is about utility. So I'm I just. Again, this example is I'm running towards something rather than from something, because, to your point, I think you can utilize both and you can leverage both, but one of them is far more sustainable than the other one.

Alan Lazaros

It's hard to run away from stuff. Well, the problem is it's almost. If you want to run away from stuff, you almost have to put yourself in a circumstance where you are being chased by a black bear that kind of metaphor, obviously not literally but, and that's I remember, I was at corporate.

Alan Lazaros

This was way, way, way back. I worked for a company called cognex and we were up in vermont at stowe ski resort and they, cognex, was doing very, very well it's industrial automation. So, of course and I remember my boss saying, alan, because I was so pumped, I was completely out of debt, I was debt free and I was the only one at the table that was- debt free.

Alan Lazaros

And these are all multi-millionaires and people like well, if they're in debt, how are they multi-millionaires? That's a whole thing. We can another time, but ultimately these are people that are making a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of money. And he said well, alan, how do you stay motivated if you're not in debt?

Alan Lazaros

and I remember thinking oh goodness, I am different than these people. I'm just different. Now I now realize that you can't be 100% motivated unless you're running from something and running towards something. What I didn't know back then is I am the type of person who tends to run toward things and that motivates me a lot Not fully, I'll be honest. I mean, when we're up against the 10 pound and 10 week challenge, I am more motivated, but it's an uptick of 20%, it's not 80% of my motivation. Trust me, most of this are not necessity. That's one of the things that I want to be very clear about.

Alan Lazaros

I was on a podcast pre-call with a wonderful woman named Pauline, who, she wouldn't mind me sharing this. She has no arms and no legs and she was taking notes on the call with her mouth and I said you must give people so much hope because you have. We had this really powerful conversation. It was wonderful and she was not offended in any regard and I said I can help people. That maybe you can't, but you. She said you can help people I can't. And I said but you can help people. That maybe you can't. But she said you can help people I can't. And I said but you can help people. I can't. And you give people so much hope because a lot of them, myself included, are making excuses for why we can't succeed when we don't have half the challenges you have, and I think that that's a really powerful, inspiring thing. She has every excuse in the world not to be successful and she's more motivated than half the people I know, and to me, there's nothing more inspiring than that. And so I say, alan, you do not have any excuse. You have the opportunity, you have the intelligence, you have the capability, you have the. There is something you can do. So, running toward these things, no one needs to be a multi-millionaire. That's not a necessity. However, why, when you get to a certain level in life where your basic needs are met, why not go create more? Why not go do more? Why not go become more? Because what people don't understand is that if I build a home and then rent it out for a fair price, now someone else has a place to live. There's benefits to this. It's not.

Alan Lazaros

The economy grows from people being more productive, doing more, being more motivated. The whole world gets better when you're more motivated, as long as you're building things that are of value and you're not selling cigarettes. You being more motivated and more productive is actually what's best for the world. That's why all of us enjoy more abundance than we did in the past. That's why less people are starving than ever before in human history. More people have shelter than ever before in human history. More people have internet than ever before in human history, except for me. Right now, apparently, more people have more abundance and higher quality of life than ever before in human history, and the reason why is because of technology and productivity. So you becoming more, getting more motivated, working toward these things that maybe, maybe aren't needs but are wants, are actually a good thing. I think every time you get in better shape, you inspire everyone around you to be in better shape and the the ship in the Harbor. The Harbor rises and ships rise together, and it's a vortex of influence that keeps going upward.

Alan Lazaros

But I've I digress here when it comes to motivation. What happens when you do have your basic needs met? What happens when you do achieve those goals and dreams? Do you stop? Because people will say things like well, why, why do you need to go for that? You guys have a million listens. You guys, you're successful already. You already made it.

Alan Lazaros

I had one guy, one podcast, to say dude, you don't have to be so much like, you made it, you did it. Man, it's like dude I. I understand what you're trying to say, but no, I didn't I. This is the beginning for me, sir. I'm, I'm past where you ever thought of getting and I'm grateful for that, and that's awesome. From where I came from, holy crappy, holy crap-oly. However, I'm at the beginning, baby. Now what's the point of all that? I want to be more motivated, but how do you motivate yourself? What's the point of being motivated? And how do you motivate yourself when all your basic needs are met? That's a challenge that people need to, not preaching down to anybody, but that all of us need to face for sure. For sure, because otherwise you're going to keep putting yourself up against a wall. That's scarce. I told kev I don't. I need to find a way to manufacture necessity so that when we have a ton of money in the bank, I'm still just as motivated.

Kevin Palmieri

I'd like that, because the opposite of that is you find a way to get rid of all the money we have, and I don't like that. Reinvest it. Well, because the thing is, I don't operate the same way Alan does. I operate better when there's more abundance, because I don't feel like I'm running from something. I feel like I'm running towards something.

Alan Lazaros

NLU listener what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

You watch a horror movie and how does the person always get the person they're chasing? They're running from something and they trip and fall down all of them every single time. But if you're running for the ice cream truck or something, you're not going to trip and fall. Watch where you're stepping, for sure, because you're looking ahead. You're not looking behind you. You're looking ahead. The ice cream truck's ahead of you. Michael Myers is behind you. You need both, I know, but I think you've got to figure out which one is more constructive for you. I think that's a really good place to start. That's a really good place to start. I don't get motivated by being behind. A great example 10-pound and 10-week challenge. The first time we did it, I came in, I think a week or two ahead of schedule. Alan had to run a marathon to make his. That's a really good example. I overdid that one, you overdid that one, and then last one.

Alan Lazaros

I made it. I made it 187. On that one I came in light. I came in a little lower, like three pounds lower than I needed. Then last one 177, 177.

Kevin Palmieri

Last one you and I both finished early, I think, because we were like dude I don't.

Alan Lazaros

I wasn't about to run a marathon again. That was too painful. Well, it's good.

Kevin Palmieri

Lessons learned, but I don't know. I feel like I do better when I'm running towards something. Yes, it's a percentage. Let's say it's 75% towards something and 25% from something. Fine, the interesting thing about this will be a little bodybuilding anecdote. The interesting thing about doing a bulk, where you quite literally intentionally gain weight, is that you're really building necessity in. So, as I'm watching the weight go up on the scale, I'm realizing this is going to suck more and more and more to get down to the weight I want to get to. So I'm going to be running towards the version of myself. The picture I shared on social media the other day where I said this is what I'm aiming for, but I'm going to be running from this. I'm running from the quote unquote. It's not damage, but the circumstances that I created to get stronger in the off season. It's a weird thing and I understand. That's why a lot of people don't want to gain weight, because it's like what if I can't get it off?

Alan Lazaros

again though. Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

That's scary.

Alan Lazaros

When you feel in control of it, it's not as scary, yeah For sure. So you're someone who has admitted in the past. You're not naturally motivated.

Kevin Palmieri

You love relaxing, you love huge fan of it you love. Yeah, huge fan okay how do you?

Alan Lazaros

you're someone who, eight years ago however many years ago, probably six at this point we're sitting in front of a whiteboard and we write down five habits you're gonna track and you say hate it, I'll do it, but this sucks. Do you really think I have to do this? I would say, yeah, probably, if you want results, I think it would behoove you to do it. And now you have what? Nine metrics, 22 habits. It's wild, you're? If I purposely don't show kevin's tracker to not scare clients away.

Kevin Palmieri

I track a lot of stuff, but again, seven years, six years, whatever Right Long time.

Alan Lazaros

Big things start small. Long time to get there. As someone who was not naturally motivated, how the hell have you become so effing motivated? I'm not.

Kevin Palmieri

I just I don't think it lands. I don't know if it'll ever land. I just have a conversation with myself of either you do what it takes to get the goal or you don't get the goal, and then you can't bitch about it. That's it, kev. Nobody else cares whether you get to 5,000, nobody else cares. Nobody cares, they got their own shit going on. The last thing they're worried about is did Kevin do his episode today? I had to check to make sure Kevin did his episode today. Nobody cares.

Kevin Palmieri

I do Well I know you do, but I don't blame you. You shouldn't care. You should care about your own life and getting better and doing your own thing.

Kevin Palmieri

So it's nobody's job to hold me accountable other than you. It is your job because you're the CEO of the company. So, in fairness, that is kind of your job. But that's helpful and that's why we did the episode. On the fact that I'm not a good number one, I don't set the pace. That's not my natural tendency. My natural tendency is not to set the pace. I can keep up with the pace as long as it's sustainable for me. That I'm not. I find I found someone more motivated to me, that more motivated than me, that I could just try to keep up with now. Is that sustainable for everyone?

Alan Lazaros

I don't know, I think in a way, it's almost like you took the fear of. I often say you're either playing to win or playing not to lose. Everybody's both, but it's a percentage. We talked about that earlier. It's almost like you took your tendency of playing not to lose and flipped it on its head by finding someone who can set the pace because you're playing not to lose.

Kevin Palmieri

To me, but it makes you perpetually win.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, that's very powerful but I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri

Again, it's hard because I don't know what advice to give to someone who doesn't have that I. I would just figure out are you more are you? Are you more motivated by feeling good and looking good, or are you more motivated by the fear that comes around the closer and closer we get to beach season, because you don't feel like you put in the work I would start there and then it's. It becomes this weird thing where again, I'm very blessed, where I have really good genetics. My father, although was an absentee parent, evidently used steroids at some point in his in his life, so I don't know if that got passed on to me. Whatever, I don't know how it works from a biological standpoint.

Alan Lazaros

But my father was a very large, muscular human.

Kevin Palmieri

And I got some of that.

Alan Lazaros

He was probably on steroids during conception. It wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure there was steroids and other drugs.

Kevin Palmieri

I'm sure and I've never really been quote unquote out of shape. So I've never. I wasn't the guy who was like I just, you know, I kind of I was overweight and I didn't like the way I looked. And then I got, I went to the gym and and I really turned it all around. I didn't like the way I looked because I was five foot, nothing and I was like, well, I'm just going to get jacked, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to try to go to have good genetics. So maybe it was easier for me than it was somebody else. But the interesting thing is, when you do build something like that into your identity, that's what you want to run towards. Maybe I'm not running from a past version of kev who was out of shape. I'm running towards the identity. Alan told me he said a couple a couple of my clients have said stuff in passing, like when you post fitness stuff.

Kevin Palmieri

I love that.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, yeah yeah, the significant part of me is like hell yeah, it's working, it's working. So I don't know. 90% of nah, it's a lie. 75% of what I do in the gym is for me, 25% of what I do in the gym is for other people, for significance, for sure. That's what I'm running towards. I'm not running from past Kev, I'm running towards staying in the identity that I have had over however many years. That's a really important thing for me. So I would give that advice to somebody out there listening. Okay, maybe you don't have somebody who's setting the pace. I don't know how you replicate that. I genuinely don't, alan and I have a weird thing going on.

Kevin Palmieri

You hire a coach you hire a coach, join a Facebook group, get a peak performance partner. There's ways what you and I have is different because we're business partners and all that, but I think identifying what is your natural tendency. Are you somebody who is really good at running from stuff? Matt, my buddy, great example. Anytime he's stuck in a rut, I always say, dude, you need to put more pressure on yourself. You're gliding. You do really well under massive pressure.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, he does crush, doesn't he? He always crushes. I remember one time he came out three months later shining like a new penny, but it was brutal.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, he does really well under a lot of pressure.

Alan Lazaros

I don't do well under that much pressure.

Kevin Palmieri

I don't know if you're well, I don't know. I won't say I don't know if you're supposed to like it, because I like when we're in abundance. I don't know. This is a really hard thing Because if you're not motivated.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, it's the right amount. If you're not motivated and it shuts you down, you're definitely not going to be productive. If it's, if there's not enough necessity and you're like, well, it doesn't really matter. You know, if you put your hand on the stove and it only goes from 80 degrees to 100 degrees, it's like that's not really that hot. But if it goes to 300 degrees and you burn your skin off, that's probably not ideal either. You got to find the right. You got to find the right goldilocks we talk all the time about.

Rewards and consequences in motivation

Alan Lazaros

You have to believe it'll. It's possible, possible for you and worth it. The practical takeaway for this episode how can you make it more worth it? Make it more worth it. How do you make it more worth it? What's some practical examples of that? Getting a coach, for example, makes it more worth it.

Kevin Palmieri

Give yourself a treat. I like that idea. I like the idea of if I accomplish X, I get Y. I like that. I think that can be very, very, very constructive, because if you're somebody, I'm more motivated by the opposite. Yes, so what? You lose something if you don't do it.

Alan Lazaros

Yeah, you lose the opportunity cost. You lose what could have been. You lose something if you don't do it. Yeah, you lose the opportunity cost. You lose what could have been. You lose your potential.

Kevin Palmieri

For me, that's it. Give me something physical.

Alan Lazaros

I don't know if I Potential, it's on my desktop background. It's a deep belief in what's truly possible and what human beings are capable of. You are mourning the loss of your potential. Why do we get sad when we suck? Why do we get sad when we suck? Why do we get sad when we lose? Why do we get sad when we don't give it our all? Why do we get sad when we're letting it ride? Why do we get sad when we drink too much or whatever Hangover? No, that's not why for me. For me it's. I'm mourning the loss of what I was capable of, what could have been, what could have been been, but I know that that's not normal for everybody. So can you imagine if emilia and I never met the loss of what could have been? You never know what could have been I I do. I mean dude. All of this was always possible, brother. Imagine if we didn't do what it took. We would have lost all this. For me, that's again. I know that's the less relatable one, so I'll let you go now.

Kevin Palmieri

No, no, I don't. I think. In my, so in my version, you give yourself a treat. You have the next thing, so if it would make it worth it to have the next thing worth celebrating Now, again we. The goal is to make sure it doesn't take you off the rails, right? It's like I finally hit my fitness goal. I'm going to get 16 little C little Caesars pizzas, like that's probably that, ain't it? That ain't it? Or I, I finally saved. I or I finally saved, I finally got out of debt. I'm going to go buy a $200,000 vacation and go back into debt. That probably ain't it either. If you've been really good in your relationship and things have been awesome, you probably shouldn't go cheat on your partner.

Alan Lazaros

That's probably not the most constructive. That might be the worst thing.

Kevin Palmieri

But I don't know, I think I do really well with stuff like that.

Alan Lazaros

Well, if you earn an additional five thousand dollars next year, you can spend a thousand on it of it and keep the other four, or save it or invest it or whatever.

Kevin Palmieri

Yeah, I, I agree with that for sure. Okay, what's? What is it on your end commitment device.

Alan Lazaros

Okay, it's berate yourself if you don't do it. Uh, I I was playful with emilia. We were on a walk last night and I sometimes will shift into my. What I say is my highest self. My highest self, alan, if you fucking miss a workout, I said my highest self's hardcore. She said that's not your highest self. I said I know, I know it. My highest self is Alan. You know what you're capable of and you know you're going to regret it if you don't give it your all. You've never once not given your all and not regretted it. Just give it whatever you've got. Let's go. You're better than this. You can do this. Okay, that's my highest self. There's another part that's way more hardcore. That translates that to get your ass in the gym, you lazy piece of okay I.

Alan Lazaros

Obviously that's shame-based and I'm working on that and people are like oh, you're so hard on yourself. It's like listen, I think the world would be a better place if some of us were a little harder on ourselves. Let's be real. However, shame of us were a little harder on ourselves. Let's be real. However, shame based is not the goal. Shame is you're a bad person. Guilt is come on, you're better than this kev? What are we doing? You gotta have a little bit of that. What's the point of a coach if they're not going to be like come on, let's go, we can win this game. Get come on, you don't need to skip another workout. I think we would do well with that if we had a little bit more of that. The world would be a better place if we all had someone we respect watching to hold us accountable to our best self.

Alan Lazaros

I really do believe that and I have a lot of stats to prove that. I have obviously many clients I coach. I'm very grateful. Okay, what was my point of all? That there's something called a commitment device that works unbelievably well and it's the same as the a hundred dollar habit.

Alan Lazaros

Kevin goes to his wife, taryn, and says I need you to rip this shit up If I don't go to the gym for the next seven days. A hundred dollar habit. You better believe he's going. You're not going to watch a hundred dollar bill ripped up in front of you. That's called pain that you don't want to face. So you're going to go to the gym and I think that you need both. I do Okay. If X, then I'm going to treat myself with Y. Also, if I let myself down again, I'm going to add a consequence immediately that's going to affect me, because that's why everyone, not everyone. That's why most people tend to work out more consistently before their wedding, because it's both something they're excited for. I want to look great in my wedding dress or my tux, and I definitely, definitely, definitely don't want to look bad in these photos that we spent $10,000 on, and that's a commitment device, as well as what Kev is talking about.

Alan Lazaros

Your way sounds worse than mine about your way sounds worse than mine. They're both. Unfortunately, mine actually does work better. Human beings are wired to avoid pain more than they are to gain pleasure, and there's a lot of research underneath that yeah, there's a lot of pain under the pleasure, like I know. I don't know every time you skip a workout, I'm taking $1,000 out of the bank account and I'm going to bury it somewhere you can never find it.

Kevin Palmieri

That's why, figuring out what the right amount is because I've said that on other podcasts $100 is for some people, $100 is no money, Right, and I said very, very honestly for us it's like if I could if Taron ripped up the $100, it's like if I could if Taron ripped up the $100, it's not the end of the world, Right. It's not like we're not going to be able to eat. We're fortunate it's not the end of the world, Yep. But $10 wouldn't be enough, potentially, yeah.

Alan Lazaros

And then there's layers of that of.

Kevin Palmieri

Well, I don't know what's not about the amount, it's about the it's 10 double. G, not even that.

Alan Lazaros

No, you're not getting a G, for I'm kidding. You know I'm joking. I wish it's not about it's five double G.

Kevin Palmieri

It might be. It's not about that for me, it's about the fact that that's one of those when I'm getting out of bed. In the morning I started I was like, all right, cool, gonna get get out of bed. Geez, here we go 10. I fell asleep at like six. I fell asleep. I was like, right there I was right in dreamland.

Kevin Palmieri

I was like oh, shit, I literally almost missed it. I've never missed. I've never anytime I've done when I'm in the shower and I want to stay in there longer. I know Alan does 70 minute showers, I do like 70 minute showers no, no, no.

Alan Lazaros

Always.

Kevin Palmieri

I always get out. The average is more Than you'd think, though.

Alan Lazaros

The average is more Than you'd think or less than you'd think, sorry, less than you'd think. Average shower is only 17 minutes or something, that's, it's 15.

Kevin Palmieri

10 to 15 or something 12 to 15. It's way lower than I thought. For sure, 17 minutes is an entire episode of Parks and Rec, minus commercials, like that's a whole freaking sitcom.

Alan Lazaros

I'm just saying.

Kevin Palmieri

You gotta floss, maybe not.

Alan Lazaros

You gotta brush your teeth. I'm just saying, yeah, no, I don't understand.

Kevin Palmieri

You gotta be thorough, I understand.

Alan Lazaros

I'm a cleanly man.

Kevin Palmieri

I'm a yeah yeah. Well, you know, I try to be well-groomed. That's a long time in the shower. I'll let you do you, though I'm learning.

Alan Lazaros

I'm learning in there. I got books on. I learn whilst I do my work, doing a workshop on productivity In there, you got your whiteboard in there and stuff.

Kevin Palmieri

No, no, I have to pee. So bad so we got to get out of here. Bad so we gotta get out of here right now. At the second yes, I wish I had a waterfall sound effect all right, what's your takeaway? What's your quick takeaway, so the listeners can get some value from this episode?

Alan Lazaros

if you want the five m's of motivation, please reach out. It is a really big unlock. We didn't go through all of them here, but ultimately I would say, do something to make it more worth it. What's your most important goal in 2025 and what's one thing you can do to make it more worth it? What's your most important goal in 2025 and what's one thing you can do to make it more worth it?

Kevin Palmieri

Mine would be does scarcity unlock you or does abundance unlock you? What is a more sustainable fuel? That would be mine. You're so red right now I have to pee so bad. It's interesting. I'm watching your face going into tomatoes, working up the neck right now, like a sickness, like a toxin like a poison.

Alan Lazaros

Don't make me do the outro man. I don't think you could Do. You know how to do it. It's been real. Thank you all.

Outro

Kevin Palmieri

Next Level Nation. Next Level Nation. If you have not subscribed, you want to make sure you never miss an opportunity to get to the next level. Make sure you are subscribed. Tell a friend to tell a friend and you'll be the friend who told those friends to get to the next level. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and I know you. We don't have fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros

Keep after it. Next level nation.

Kevin Palmieri

Thanks for joining us for another another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next.

Alan Lazaros

Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host