Someone Has To Go First… (1940)

The essence of human connection often dwells within our ability to be vulnerable. In this episode, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros reveal the challenges and rewards of opening up. Learn how to overcome the fear of rejection, foster stronger relationships, and create a safe space for feedback. Through personal stories and practical advice, they show how vulnerability leads to deeper connections and why surrounding yourself with uplifting people matters.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Show notes:
(3:03) The courage to communicate hurt feelings
(5:53) Protecting ego Vs. Sharing vulnerability
(9:18) Fear of outgrowing relationships
(13:29) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(15:04) The “psychological immune system” explained
(22:30) Why feedback is crucial for growth
(25:58) Red flags in relationships to watch out for
(26:24) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri 0:00

So giving feedback is super hard because you don't know. That's another reason people don't want to give. People don't want to go first because they don't know how the other person is going to react. If I don't know how you're going to react, why would I want to go first?

Alan Lazaros 0:15

When someone goes vulnerable, you are the one taking the risk, because they might use that against you, and that's just the truth. However, if you don't, you're going to basically grow apart from people that you might really value.

Kevin Palmieri 0:28

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin.

Alan Lazaros 0:32

Palmieri and I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus, at. Nlu, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. Welcome to.

Kevin Palmieri 1:12

Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,947, someone has to go first. I was on a podcast recently and we were talking about communication and we were talking about vulnerability and I don't know what the question was, but it was something along the lines of why is it so hard? And I said because, at the end of the day, somebody has to go first.

Kevin Palmieri 1:51

It's not just going to happen by accident. Most likely somebody intentionally has to say I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and things could go horribly wrong. So I had a conversation with someone, a family member, recently that I care about deeply and they messaged me and said hey. So they messaged me and said I know we're not going to see you for Christmas and there was some other stuff and I could tell by the tone of the text message that it was like there was some sass being thrown my way yeah, there was some sass being thrown and it was surprising to me.

Kevin Palmieri 2:23

What a perfect word for it. Sass being thrown my way. Yeah, there's some sass being thrown and it was surprising to me. I was like, what a perfect word for it. Well, sass, sass, yeah, yeah. Yeah, tara, and I say that a lot, like sometimes, if she's grumpy, she'll be sassy, or if I'm grumpy, I'm a little sassy.

Alan Lazaros 2:36

Yeah, some sass in this household sass, aka I'm feeling hurt but don't want to vulnerably share that.

Kevin Palmieri 2:44

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shoot kind of like a backhanded. Well, I know we're not gonna see you, so when should I send this? Hmm, you could have just said when should I send this? That would have. Then maybe things would be different.

Kevin Palmieri 3:03

But I messaged this person back and I said I was under the assumption that you didn't care if I came or not. And they said well, I didn't want to guilt you one and I didn't really want you to know how hurt I was. And then, immediately, my guard is down and I don't want to have any ego, I don't want to hurt this person anymore. So I literally said number one, I'm so grateful you told me, even though it sucks, this was on Christmas Day. This was on Christmas Day.

Kevin Palmieri 3:42

Towards the end of the day I was like shit, okay, but number one, I'm super grateful you told me. Number two I had no idea and I never would have known unless you told me, and of course, some of this is on me. I could have, I probably could have done better with context clues and all that. And then number three now that I know the truth, I can behave in a more aligned way. But that requires, if I choose, yeah, if it's Well, my point stands because now that I know I can operate in a more aligned way, whether that means I go see you more or not, at least it's aligned, based on awareness.

Alan Lazaros 4:19

Right.

Kevin Palmieri 4:22

I'm super grateful that person told me and I'm super grateful that person was willing to go first, because if not, I would have been operating under that assumption for as long as humanly possible until they told me or until I somehow figured it out.

Alan Lazaros 4:38

I just don't think I probably would have why do you think people are so reluctant to share when they're hurt?

Kevin Palmieri 4:44

I think one reason is because they don't want to hurt the other person. If I'm hurt and then I share with you that I'm hurt because of something that maybe you represent, maybe you'll get hurt, and that's not what I want to accomplish. I don't want to share my hurt to hurt someone else. I want to share my hurt because I'm hoping me sharing my hurt will eliminate some of it. But I think that's one piece, and then I think the other piece is I think that's a very positive way to frame it.

Alan Lazaros 5:13

I think some people are just protecting their own identity or their perception, or their yeah, their ego, because it seems weak.

Protecting ego Vs. Sharing vulnerability

Alan Lazaros 5:23

I think one of the things that came up for me when I asked that question is sometimes it can feel like you're weak if you're hurt. And then the other piece is I think this is one of the reasons. It might be the case If I share that I'm hurt, now the other person knows that they can hurt me, now I'm in a vulnerable position to where they have some sort of power over me. Yeah, I think that's the real.

Kevin Palmieri 5:53

I've tried to realize that most people are unkind only out of self-preservation, but that's based on your experience, though that's not even a conscious thought for me, For me sharing something vulnerable with someone close to me, I don't even have the thought of they could use this against me. I don't even think about that.

Alan Lazaros 6:10

But that's rare, that's super rare. That's not normal.

Kevin Palmieri 6:15

I don't know. I don't know. I have good people in my life. If you're a shithead, you don't get to stay in my life. What are we doing here? Just going to like allow you to treat me poorly? No, people do that all the time. I did that for 30 years. Son, get the fuck out.

Alan Lazaros 6:31

I did that for 30 years.

Kevin Palmieri 6:33

Well, I know, but I remember I always told you like, hey, man, your friends like kind of suck, yeah, yeah. Yeah, most of them are. You're like a good dude. Why are you spending time with these people? You're a great man with a heart of gold and these. What are we doing? But again, your past is different than mine. I'm afraid of being left behind. I have to get rid of the. We were talking about this on the previous episode. I'm throwing all sorts of shit overboard. Sometimes the stuff I need, it's like ah shit, I really could have used that. You're like diving into the water to bring things onto the boat.

Alan Lazaros 7:12

Like new anchors. Yeah, exactly it's like, is our?

Kevin Palmieri 7:15

anchor big enough and strong enough. That one looks good. I'm going to go get that and drag that on.

Alan Lazaros 7:19

Yeah. You know, I'm grabbing new dumpsters to drag up the mountain, unfortunately at times, but I think we're all. I was in the past. I was in the past.

Kevin Palmieri 7:29

We're all guilty of leaning, we're all guilty of continuing the momentum of the trigger, and that just wasn't one for me. So it's obviously it's just a little bit different.

Alan Lazaros 7:39

You know how we'll sometimes do episodes where I don't get it sometimes do episodes where it's obvious I haven't yeah, I don't get it, yeah, yeah. Well, this is one where I don't get it. Yeah, 100, yeah 100. It's like oh, you can't teach this at all.

Kevin Palmieri 7:53

I can tell stories. Maybe the maybe lessons will will come of that.

Alan Lazaros 8:00

Is there anyone in your life who you know has people in their life that that are just dragging them down? Yeah, most people. Okay, why do you think that might be Kev?

Kevin Palmieri 8:18

Because they again, I think because most people would rather have. They don't want to be lonely. How many episodes have we done about going through lonely land? Going through lonely land sucks and honestly I don't know what sucks worse going through Lonely Land or having people that pull you down. I don't know.

Alan Lazaros 8:34

I would say I've done both. Having people that pull you down is worse.

Fear of outgrowing relationships

Kevin Palmieri 8:38

It's better in the moment, but worse long term and I think that's why it doesn't happen, because almost everything it takes an extreme amount of courage to leave a misaligned relationship, and that is hard. As Some of the I'll be very honest about this Some of the relationships that I no longer have. I'm afraid to see these people in real life because of how supremely awkward it would be. I'm not afraid of they're going to say anything mean or anything. Maybe, maybe I am, I don't know. I don't really like conflict, but I'm terrified of that.

Kevin Palmieri 9:18

I'm terrified of being somewhere and running into someone from my past who does not like me because I quote unquote grew in a different direction than them. I don't want to see them not that I don't care for them, not that I don't love them, but I, I'm nervous about that, I'm nervous.

Alan Lazaros 9:39

I'm not. I mean I am too, so I'm not uh, I'm just curious as to. I don't want to. I'm just curious as to.

Kevin Palmieri 9:43

I don't want to hurt him. I already hurt him once.

Alan Lazaros 9:46

I don't want to hurt him again. So even your answer and again, this is a bigger conversation, but your answer is, I think, one of the reasons people don't share that they're hurt. To go back to the vulnerability piece of you have to be the first one. Someone has to go first. That was the point. Someone has to go first. Someone has to go first.

Kevin Palmieri 10:04

Someone has to go first with vulnerability Real quick, just so I make sure I get the sense. So I don't forget If you're listening to this podcast, it's most likely going to be you, because you're going to be the person. The reason I'm super proud of the person who messaged me and explained how they were feeling is my personal development set point is much higher than theirs. I was unaware that they were feeling this way. Can you explain personal development set point? The amount of work someone has done on themselves to raise their awareness, to evolve, to get rid of their limiting beliefs, to break their negative patterns? Books, read, coaching calls, consumed Leatherbound books.

Alan Lazaros 10:45

Le leather bound books leather bound books.

Kevin Palmieri 10:47

Yeah, just how hard have you. How hard have you? How have you worked on yourself? I was very it's for my background. I was very proud of this person for doing that and my job was to make that person number one feel safe, Number two, feel appreciated and let them know I'm grateful for what they did Not. There's no, there's not gonna be any shame and I'm not gonna guilt you for unintentionally guilting me, because I know that's not why you did it. But again, I also understand it's not the case for everybody well.

Alan Lazaros 11:19

I want to share this with everyone. I've come to understand a couple things over the years, cause when you coach so many people, you get so many different frames of reference and you you know, it's almost like I have so much more data than I used to because I have the front of the scenes and the behind the scenes of so many different individuals from different countries, from different backgrounds, from different cultures, with different family dynamics. Some people don't have a dad, some people don't have a mom, some people have both, some people have divorced, some people have, and you know, you just learn through the accumulation of these coaching sessions, of behind the scenes, plus seeing their social media. You just learned so much, and one of the things that's become very clear is that when people hurt each other, the majority of the time it's due to a self-preservation, of not wanting to appear a certain way. So if you don't want to appear weak and you don't want to admit that this other person hurt you, because then that means you're afraid that they'll know that they have power to hurt you and then they might actually use that against you, which is very much a thing, kev.

Alan Lazaros 12:27

You might not do that, but that's what humans sometimes do. It's almost like so it's referred to as the psychological immune system. It's almost like so it's referred to as the psychological immune system. Instead of looking inward and going, okay, what is the truth that this person is sharing, I'm going to. I'm hurt because of X, y, z. Okay, because I'm fearful that I'm inadequate in some way. If I share that now I look, I liken it to an animal in the animal kingdom that is injured. It's like if there's a group of horses and there's a lion around and one of the horses I know bear with me. I don't know, maybe zebras, zebras, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri 13:08

I think that's more aligned.

Alan Lazaros 13:09

yeah, striped horses. All I can think of is the gum man. They did good. What kind of gum was that with the zebras?

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:

Kevin Palmieri 13:17

remember back in like middle school it was so bad that I don't remember the name of it, but I the branding was really good. Branding was on point yeah, I don't remember hello, hello, hello.

Alan Lazaros 13:30

Nlu listener. Thank you, as always, for listening to next level university. Real quick. I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes notes.

Alan Lazaros 14:04

So zebras bear with me in a field, uh, lions waiting. One of the zebras is injured. If that zebra shows that it's injured, it's gonna get eaten. That's kind of what our psychological immune system is doing. If I show the group that I'm actually less than they think, immune system is doing. If I show the group that I'm actually less than they think, I'm the weak one who might get attacked or ostracized or whatever. And, by the way, same deal, for if I'm the lion, no one wants to hang out with a lion. He might get eaten.

Alan Lazaros 14:29

So if I'm too much, too tall, too jacked, whatever, it is too smart, you name it. It also is a threat. Anything that is like outside the norm of any group is like a threat, sort of. And for people that have low personal development set point to your point. They aren't really good at working through their emotions and they don't really know what their deepest insecurities are. I certainly didn't in the past.

The “psychological immune system” explained

Alan Lazaros 14:52

So so, and what happens is I'll poke someone's insecurity unintentionally and then there's this blowout and it's like whoa, that isn't no, no, no, no, you're blowing this way out of proportion. That isn't what I meant. And then I go vulnerable, and then they go vulnerable, and then we reconnect. That's been working tremendously well.

Alan Lazaros 15:13

But I do think the reason I have one client in particular. You know who you are, who's sharing with me all of the true stuff that I she basically says that she said, alan, no one's going to share this with you, but this is actually what a lot of people are thinking and I'm embarrassed and scared to share it. And then she'll share it and it's like oh, I knew that, that's what you thought, but I couldn't prove it because I never had anyone actually say it out loud. Right, we all have the inner stuff that we're thinking like, and some people aren't looking at that because it's subconscious and unconscious. But ultimately, when someone goes vulnerable, you are the one taking the risk because they might use that against you, and that's just the truth, however, truth, however.

Kevin Palmieri 15:56

If you don't, you're going to basically grow apart from people that you might really value this is not related at all to what we're talking about, but I I was in my. I was talking to a lot of people about group coaching shout out to group 17, group 17 starts tomorrow. And I was going through my old Facebook messages In 2007,. Again, this is not related to what we're saying at all. I was just like what an interesting life things used to be. Some dude messaged me November 8th 2007. He said listen up, you're a F-word homophobic slur, mother effer, and if I catch you around I'm gonna knock your short, cocky ass straight to the floor. You bitch. That's the most message I got on Facebook. Wait, wait, seriously, I swear, I swear to you, I would show it if there were it's not very nice in 2007.

Alan Lazaros 16:53

Just for context, this is back when Facebook was only for college students and or like right after that I got, I'm pretty sure, context.

Kevin Palmieri 16:57

This is back when facebook was only for college students and or like right after that I got I'm pretty sure I got facebook. This is probably like the first facebook message I ever got, maybe. So yeah, and I said and when the fight gets to the ground, you'll learn some jujitsu, brother, like okay you said that yeah, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri 17:10

and he said are you related to a police officer and are you seriously trained to fight jujitsu style? That's cool shit, dude. Are you kidding me? No, no way. And then I said that's cool shit, dude, are you kidding me? No, no way. And then I said no, I'm not related to a cop and, yeah, I train martial arts. And he never responded. I was just looking at that today. I was like what an interesting study of humans. Yeah, I essentially was like all right, cool man, yeah, I look forward to seeing you. And.

Alan Lazaros 17:36

I was terrified.

Kevin Palmieri 17:36

I didn't even know who this person was. I was like I'm going to get my ass kicked by a stranger. So I think there's two things. One, giving feedback is super hard because you don't know. That's another reason people don't want to give. People don't want to go first because they don't know how the other person is going to react. If I don't know how you're going to react, why would I want to go first?

Alan Lazaros 18:05

Have you ever seen my mouth do that? I know it means I'm trying to stop myself from laughing.

Kevin Palmieri 18:09

Anytime you start laughing, you take a drink because you're trying to. But I think about that too. I'm trying not to laugh at you.

Alan Lazaros 18:17

Sometimes I can laugh with you.

Kevin Palmieri 18:18

No, you can laugh at me, but you're not laughing.

Alan Lazaros 18:20

It's all good. It's all good as long as it's kind.

Kevin Palmieri 18:26

You and I are speakers. When we flub, we laugh at each other.

Alan Lazaros 18:29

It is what it is, it's all good, but again, if you were someone who was insecure about that, that would be not good. Well, yeah, that's fair.

Kevin Palmieri 18:36

That's fair.

Alan Lazaros 18:37

That would be not good I laugh because I know you're cool with it and I think it's hilarious. It is hilarious.

Kevin Palmieri 18:41

I mean that one especially was hilarious.

Kevin Palmieri 18:43

I couldn't even. Sometimes I'll just power through. I couldn't power through that one. But think of that when you give someone feedback, if you don't know how they're going to react, it might go to Alan and say, hey, I might compose the best message ever. I like to send audios, but when it comes to challenging stuff, maybe I want to write it out as opposed to just freestyling it.

Kevin Palmieri 19:05

But let's say I sent Alan an audio and said hey, alan, I'm sick, by the way. That's why I have a lot of brain fog. I don't know what's going on. Hey, alan, the way that you did this made me feel a certain way. I love you and I appreciate you and I'm grateful for all you. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I lace out a really nice message and then Alan attacks me. I'm going to regret sending that message. Number one. Number two I'm gonna beat Alan's ass. And then number three I now have an understanding that when I give feedback, I get feedback back, and that's why it's so important, when somebody does give you feedback, to do the right thing, to own the piece that you should.

Kevin Palmieri 19:54

I think there's a okay, this is a bold statement, maybe controversial. Take One of the best things you can do in your relationships is give people the understanding that you are safe. Give the right people the understanding that you are safe to give feedback to because you're emotionally secure and you're emotionally centered and you don't fly off the handle when people give you feedback, even if the feedback isn't accurate. I think that's what maturity is. Somebody might reach out and say something that's way out of left field and not accurate at all. Again, I'm not going to use that Facebook message as an example, but that was a very calm response to a very hateful message.

Alan Lazaros 20:35

Yeah, that was wildly inappropriate.

Kevin Palmieri 20:37

I didn't ego up. Almost it was like okay, man, I mean I don't know who you are or how you found my or who you think I am. I have no idea where you even came from. If you do find my short ass and you put me on the ground, I'm going to choke you unconscious, as long as you're comfortable with that. I know more about this than you do. Good, sir, but I didn't swear back. It was very calm. Now he knows I'm a ninja and you're not.

Alan Lazaros 21:05

Where to go with this.

Kevin Palmieri 21:06

I know we got to jump soon. Five minutes, yeah, just a minute.

Alan Lazaros 21:12

Okay, I was on a podcast earlier and it was about technology and it was specifically about technology in the self-improvement space and where I think it's going. Yeah, I know it was awesome. It's right in your wheelhouse, it was cool.

Kevin Palmieri 21:25

I wonder why they messaged me.

Alan Lazaros 21:26

It was like old Alan plus new Alan for future of generations, for future of generations. Yeah, it was cool, yeah, it was cool, but anyways. So I talked about how self-improvement is unfortunately not as ubiquitous, as common as I would like, and I wasn't as into self-improvement in the past either, and I think one of the reasons why is because the more I self-reflected, the more pain I would feel If I reflected on my past, if I reflected on my own poor choices, if I reflected on my own insecurities, if I reflected, it was painful, it was challenging, particularly my past. So I think what happens is because Kev said this, he said this before and I keep saying it because it's really powerful and I'm working on it. He said people love it when you tell them about them.

Kevin Palmieri 22:25

They don't and I was. Yeah, I wasn't sarcastic, just want to make sure people hate it when you tell them about them.

Alan Lazaros 22:30

Yeah, that's not ideal, that's not. That's what a coach kind of can do. Yeah, or you can just ask questions and let them tell them about them, which is probably better. But the point is is I'm a very direct coach. Sign up here, but anyways, why is that? Because people don't want to look at all the places that they're sucking. Here's the fucking problem with that. If you don't look at where you're sucking, you don't get any better. It's impossible to get better without feedback. When you and I see each other on camera all the time, that's one of the reasons we're in better shape now, because we saw ourselves on camera and we're like dude, the camera is feedback.

Alan Lazaros 23:18

Every one of these episodes is a little bit of feedback of like oh, am I insecure? Am I not as aware as I thought? Am I actually kind of drifting around, am I? And one of the hardest parts about life is that people are so eager to achieve goals externally but yet don't necessarily want to look at. So, for example, I want to be in better shape. Okay, great. That's stage one. Stage two is I'm actually not in that great of shape and I have to accept that. Stage three is okay. How am I going to get in better shape? Stage four is implement. And so to bring this all the way back, the vulnerable piece if you are focused on keeping perception socially, it's going to be very hard for you to improve your life and your relationships as much as you could.

Alan Lazaros 24:10

I would much rather take ownership with emilia and say, hey, listen, I've been really not present with you and the pets lately, been filling group coaching, blah, blah, blah. And then just I'll do better. And every quarter I try to do better and better and better, and I've gotten better. I'll be more proactive. But first, in order for me to get more proactive, I first have to say wow, I am wildly reactive. I'm kind of sucking as a dad right now, like as a pet dad and as a partner. Like as a pet dad and as a partner. And that acceptance is the beginning of progress. However, if Emilia was unkind to me yeah, you do kind of suck that would be the worst idea ever, right? And so if you have anyone in your life who does that kicks you while you're down, that is stopping you from so much progress. And I try really hard to encourage vulnerability. And then, when I see vulnerability and honesty, then it's like, okay, cool, awesome. I'd much rather you just own it and then we can just do better, great.

Kevin Palmieri 25:08

The hard part too is most of the people who kick you when you're down are the ones who can't take a punch, meaning you can't give them any feedback. They always have to have the upper hand, unfortunately. Yeah, be very careful Again. Easier said than done, kev. I know I have a weird relationship with relationships. I know, but for my own self-preservation I had to find a way to get around people who would elevate me, not hold me back, because I didn't think I was going to make it Very last thing.

Alan Lazaros 25:32

I know we got to jump. For you, what for you? What would you tell the listeners or viewers? What is the one type of person to watch out for? Because for me it would be bullies, people who kick you when you're down, who who are trying to feel bigger people who, people who only care about your success from the lens of how it helps them.

Kevin Palmieri 25:58

If there's anybody out there that wants you to win and doesn't care if they end up seeing less of you because of it, that's a good person.

Alan Lazaros 26:05

Yeah.

Outro

Kevin Palmieri 26:05

That's a very selfless person and I think that's very, very rare. So the opposite of that where I don't want you to get too successful because then you leave me behind, I understand. Yeah, same, same. I didn't want that either, but that's why I work as hard as I do to stay aligned with Alan. I don't want to be left behind. It's good motivation, all right, next Level Nation. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and NLU. We don't have fans, we have family.

Alan Lazaros 26:41

Thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. We love connecting with the next level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri 26:51

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow tomorrow.