What’s The Best Revenge? (1964)

High school can shape us in unexpected ways. In this Freestyle Friday episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros discuss the truth about personal growth, setbacks, and what truly fuels lasting success. They challenge common beliefs about revenge, self-worth, and the power of habits—sharing real stories and hard-earned lessons. If you’ve ever felt underestimated or struggled with self-doubt, this episode will give you the perspective and motivation to rise above.

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Show notes:
(3:08) Is success really the best revenge?
(5:02) Being underestimated as motivation
(9:46) How childhood shapes resilience
(13:06) High school’s lasting impact
(22:39) Small choices, big future
(25:35) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(32:25) The hard truth about growth
(41:14) Moving past revenge
(49:22) You’re not alone in your journey
(50:01) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri 0:00

Yeah, caring deeply about what those that you care deeply for think about you, and showing up every day and doing your best and growing and evolving and taking their feedback, especially when it hurts and especially when it sucks. I'm not saying you should let strangers dictate your life, but I feel like if there's somebody in your life that really cares about you and really values you, I think you should care about what they think.

Alan Lazaros 0:24

So I have a client who's 25 years old. He's really starting to see a huge delta between his friends that he used to hang out with, party with, smoke weed with, and then him. He's three times a week now and we're just tracking metrics and habits and he's just off to the races and he's going to achieve so much more because he's so focused on his habits and making sure he has good habits, not bad habits, and the truth is 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now, it's going to be a massive difference.

Kevin Palmieri 0:53

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and.

Alan Lazaros 0:58

I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri 1:01

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros 1:07

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri 1:14

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros 1:29

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri 1:36

Welcome to Next Level University. Hello NLU friends, for those of you who have children, there is something said in this episode that you might want to skip. I don't know exactly when it is, so one maybe keep your finger on the slider If you're driving. I'd probably skip this episode or wait until you can listen to it in private. It's nothing terrible, but it is something that could be bad for the family, so we're just going to throw that out there Again. It's nothing terrible, but it is something that could be bad for the family, so we're just going to throw that out there Again. It's nothing crazy, but I would probably skip this episode if you have children present. Thank you, next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri 2:14

Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1964, it's Freestyle Friday. For those of you who may be new, freestyle Friday is when Alan and I don't really have anything on the docket. We just show up and just kind of freestyle, and I really enjoy these episodes because oftentimes it becomes a catch-all for topics that just wouldn't make a full episode. So this is what I was thinking and I don't know that we could really do a full episode on this, because I don't know where it's going to go and it might be shit, could be shit, don't know. You know how. People say success is the best revenge. Oh, yeah, yeah. What do you think the best revenge is fulfillment. You think that's what it is.

Alan Lazaros 3:08

I have a better one than you I have a client of mine who there was someone from her past that treated her subpar from her perspective and there's no, there's no question that this person treated her subpar who reached back out screenshotting a message of this person saying all the things she wanted to do in the world and gave her the hey. You did it like you've done everything you said you were going to do all those years ago and you would think that's an awesome thing, and I think in one side of the coin it is On the other side of the coin it's. There's a little more underneath that, which is now that I'm really making it and really doing it. Now, all of a sudden, you believe in me, whereas back then you thought I was delusional and didn't support me almost at all and kind of treated me like shit, and now you're kind of trying to pretend like you believed in me the whole time type of thing. You ever experienced anything like that well, there was mike jones back.

Kevin Palmieri 4:15

Then they didn't want me.

Alan Lazaros 4:16

Now I'm hot, they're all on me so, mike jones, you personally, you have experienced that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to share that anonymously?

Kevin Palmieri 4:31

I had somebody. I heard through the grapevine that somebody I dated in the past was in a group of friends and they were talking about the podcast and the business and they were like, oh yeah, I was like the inspiration for that. What, what, what do you mean? No, how dare you, how dare you try to take this away from me?

Alan Lazaros 4:51

but yeah, no, that's I mean aka, none of that would have happened. The whole hyper conscious podcast next level, university, the business, the brand none of that would happen without this person's insight.

Kevin Palmieri 5:02

It's hard because I think that the best revenge is forgetting about the person or the people or the thing that you thought you had to get revenge towards. That's what I think. I think that I I think back to, like the people who I learned about something recently. There was somebody who didn't bully me in high school but for some reason was like a grade above me and wanted to fight me For some reason. I think I stunted on them in intramural football.

Alan Lazaros 5:41

Stunted on them. Yes, what does that mean?

Kevin Palmieri 5:45

Oh, you're stunting. I stunted on them. Yes, what does that mean? Oh, you're stunting. I stunted on them. I made them look bad. Oh, word and word. I somebody brought them up recently. It's like I completely forgot about that person. I completely forgot about you. I didn't. I forgot you existed, not in a negative way, I just kind of moved on with my life and that I forgot about that. I think that's the best form of revenge. But I'm weird with stuff like that. This is my new thing. I've been saying this a lot lately and again, this is like the real stuff. I am not so evolved where I don't get competitive. I'm not so evolved that when somebody mistreats me I try to have empathy. I do, I try to have empathy and I try to just let it roll off me. But my new thing is like when somebody doubts me, I just say well, see at the top, see at the top.

Kevin Palmieri 6:40

If you get there and I get there. Ah, man, a couple of years now, maybe only a there man, a couple years now, Maybe only a year.

Alan Lazaros 6:47

Honestly, time's weird.

Kevin Palmieri 6:48

Time is weird, but I would hear through the grapevine, alan, and be like, yeah, I was talking to that person. It's very clear that they don't respect you. It's like, well, see him at the top. I don't know what am I going to do? Go, try to win him over. No, they're not going to respect me. They may never respect me. Maybe they'll respect me when I have what they value. Maybe they'll never. They'll never respect me. But for me, I got to go do my thing. I got to go do my thing. It's up to me to make me successful. It's not up to them, it's I got to be successful for me and my family and for Alan and the team, not for someone else. But I think that's the best revenge. I think the best revenge is not success. I don't necessarily think it's fulfillment. I think the best revenge is forgetting about the thing that you thought you needed revenge towards. Do you think it's best served cold? Oh, I think it depends on the external temperature.

Alan Lazaros 7:37

Depends. Revenge is best served cold.

Kevin Palmieri 7:40

I think that's like an ego thing, you know. It's like I don't want to rub it in someone's face. I don't want that. It's like I don't think I'm going to like a scene from a movie. Like, pull into the drive-thru where someone works. I'm like, oh yeah, remember me, remember me. 12 double cheeseburgers now. You're like, what are we doing here?

Alan Lazaros 8:04

No, I no If cheeseburgers.

Kevin Palmieri 8:05

Now you're like what are we doing here? No, I no. If anything, I think the best revenge is showing up and being such a good person that it makes somebody I mean again. I don't. I really think forgetting is, but you'd be such a good person that they question how they ever could have doubted you or talk shit about you in the first place this person who the person reached out to, that I told the original story about at the beginning of this episode.

Alan Lazaros 8:30

She asked me what to do about that and I said all's I know is that it has to drive you. It doesn't mean it has to drive you to hatred. It doesn't mean you have it has to drive you to hatred. It doesn't mean it has to drive you to anger. It doesn't mean it has to drive you to revenge, served cold, but it does have to drive you and I do believe that to be true. I think that's important.

How childhood shapes resilience

Alan Lazaros 8:55

I think I told you this way back. I said, for anyone who's been listening to NLU or Hyperconscious Podcast or who's known you and I since we were 26, it's very clear that we have a little bit of a chip on our shoulder and that's okay. We didn't have dads. We grew up in tough environments for lack of better phrasing in different ways, but definitely, and I would say we were written off in many regards Maybe me more than you, I don't know and I think in different ways too, because I was seen as an achiever who was going to make it, but also like bullied a lot. It's just a whole thing. So, at the end of the day, there's definitely a chip on my shoulder and a chip on your shoulder. You don't do 2000 episodes an episode every day without a little chip on your shoulder, without a little something to prove. Thousand episodes an episode every day without a little chip on your shoulder, without a little something to prove.

Alan Lazaros 9:46

And I think that the truth of the matter is and I just want to share that is in the beginning. Maybe it starts there. Maybe it starts as you're the bullied freshman who didn't hit puberty and whose dad left at 14, stepdad left. And maybe it starts with I'm going to prove my worth, I'm going to prove my value. I'm going to prove my worth. I'm going to prove my value. I'm going to prove that it was a mistake to leave me. But then eventually you far surpass that person and you realize that they're actually just a large toddler and they can't even spell May or may not be talking about someone from my past. And then you evolve past that and you face it and you realize you know what. I don't need to. That fuel burns hot, but it does burn out and there has to be something greater than that. However, every now and then you've got to let that competitive drive really kick in and fuel you and motivate you. And I think there's a big difference between toxic competitive and healthy, constructive, competitive.

Alan Lazaros 10:54

And I tell the story about the bully that I saw in the gym. This dude was a fucking asshole to me, he and his boys on the basketball court. I was scrawny and I was good at basketball, but I was scrawny and they were jacked and they could dunk and they were big and they would just throw me around and just be really unjust. And I ran into that person at the gym and now I'm twice his size and he looks like shit, quite frankly, and I wanted to pin his ass up against the wall and say things are different now, huh, and but I didn't and I easily could have, easily, I mean, that would have been simple, but I was like you know what would that do exactly? I think I'd have a shit, i'd'd be that.

Alan Lazaros 11:44

That doesn't make it right. Why becoming a bully yourself Isn't that like? Isn't that the worst? That's how you know, bullying begets bullying. For all we know that person's dad was a piece of shit or whatever Right. So, and I'm not making it okay, I'm seriously not, because bullying, I think, is the dumbest shit ever Like. Tearing other people down to make yourself significant is the dumbest shit ever. I'm just calling that out. I'm going to say that now.

Alan Lazaros 12:09

That said, why would I become that? That's the very thing that I and there was another person I ran into in the gym who was just an all-star athlete, quarterback of the football team, popular as hell, like, and I remember going up to him in the gym and this was after I started to really become a bodybuilder and a fitness model and all that I said dude, thank you so much for being so kind, because a lot of the jocks were really cruel and you never were Like I really appreciated that a lot because when you're this insignificant little kid that is up against these what seem like grown men, it means a lot because you feel so insignificant. I mean this guy all the girls wanted this guy Like not a girl would look at me, type of thing, and you just feel so terrible and you never forget that and I think that that can drive you.

Kevin Palmieri 13:06

That drives me for sure isn't, it, isn't it crazy how, how influential and impactful high school is.

Alan Lazaros 13:14

It's insane. That is where, like nobody, prepares you for that dude.

Kevin Palmieri 13:18

Nobody sits you down yeah, and says, hey, the next four years be weird, as shit it's going to be. I mean, you are going to essentially try the majority of things for the first time and you're going to experiment with things and you're going to experiment with people and you're going to experiment with ideas and you're going to make a lot of mistakes and you're going to learn a lot about yourself. Try not to hang on to it too much, yeah, Especially what other people say about you.

Alan Lazaros 13:48

And you're going to think you fall in love and you really didn't. They don't.

Kevin Palmieri 13:52

What 16-year-old Kev? We'll say 14-year-old Kev, what do you think you know? You don't feel like you know that much. Okay, nobody else does either. Nobody else does either. Nobody else does either. Like there are definitely some people that know more than you, but not by much when it comes to living as a human. They might know more about math Awesome. And there's definitely some people that know less than you Probably not by a giant degree, if you think about it. I mean, we're all on pretty level playing fields here. At this point we're 13, 14, 15, 15, 16. I'm not saying your past wasn't different. I'm not saying your traumas, I'm not.

Alan Lazaros 14:29

I'm not speaking to that, but I had no idea how impactful high school was going to be dude, it's even just being with those kids in college, going back to when I was 18, 19, 20, middle. You know, stop saying you know what?

Kevin Palmieri 14:51

also, what are they feeding the kids at wpi? There's a couple kids like same height as you. What are we doing here?

Alan Lazaros 14:58

one of those is a grown man. He's 30 years old.

Kevin Palmieri 15:00

Well, it doesn't matter I'm 36 almost yeah real quick, alan and I went on a podcast together. Uh no, we went on it separately, but we've both been on it. I don't remember the gentleman's name great, great dude, great dude he's. He commented on that picture. Oh no, he commented on the picture of me, you stephan merrick, and said how tall is Alan? I said, well, in this picture he looks like he's about 11 feet because it's it's shorter folk next to Alan. You look like you're 11 feet in the picture. You'll have to go look at my.

Alan Lazaros 15:34

Go look at my oh, really, yeah, nice yeah. Oh, I know which one you're talking about the one that looks like alive.

Kevin Palmieri 15:40

Yeah, you look like a giant.

Alan Lazaros 15:41

I also have there's like a little bit on that. Those shoes I got a little bit of also have there's like a little bit on those shoes.

Kevin Palmieri 15:46

I got a little bit of mine too, probably.

Alan Lazaros 15:47

Yeah, there's a little bit on those. Those dress shoes are nice, but I'm wearing those at WBI too. So you're absolutely right, the kids are tall, a couple of them. Okay, you are a child and you go to kindergarten, kindergartner, you go to kindergarten and again, I know this is different globally. I'm talking from our experience, so put this into your context, please. I had someone earlier tell me, alan you radiate American, it's like what does that even mean? I don't even know if I'm proud of that anymore.

Kevin Palmieri 16:15

But honestly, what does that mean though?

Alan Lazaros 16:17

The responsibility of the individual. Apparently, that's a very American thing, like you can pull yourself up from your own bootstraps and build your own future, but it's your responsibility. That's like a very apparently American thing. Yeah, so anyway, someone said that to me earlier. They're a Canadian and they think that I'm like the all American, which was fascinating for me to hear. And again, I don't know if they said it that way.

Kevin Palmieri 16:42

That's what, what I heard did they also say that you, I aspire to be you exactly the way you are when I grow up they said that you, you do you exude american, the american belief system.

Alan Lazaros 16:56

I guess, and I do think it's an aspirational dream. Remember when we interviewed brant and he was from can, canada, and he talked about how it's different, the mentality of being able to really build something here. I hope that we never lose that. I really I believe in the individual's potential. I really do Less than I ever have to, be completely honest, but it's still, you know, the American dream, all that. Again, this is a global podcast. I just, it was just a little anecdote, okay. So kindergarten, yes, we're back.

Alan Lazaros 17:32

It's a little little tiny kindergarten, yeah, there may or may not be dangerous asbestos in the walls said kindergarten there was.

Kevin Palmieri 17:43

There was for sure 100.

Alan Lazaros 17:44

Kev ate a lot of lead paint, probably so. Kindergarten, tiny little world, small, small little kindergarten. Then it's middle school Ooh, a little bigger, oh, elementary school, I'm sorry, elementary school Lot bigger Middle school even bigger than that. High school even bigger than that. Bigger than that High school, even bigger than that College Even bigger than that. Then you party at other colleges Maybe bigger colleges Even bigger than that. Then you go into corporate and it's like oh God, this is a whole other thing, it's even bigger than that. And then you go into entrepreneurship.

Alan Lazaros 18:26

And you go, I am fucked, definitely, definitely. This is going to be atrocious, and I'm being playful, but there's six billion human beings on the internet now. When we were in kindergarten, we had such a small little world, it was. I remember there was a girl named carrie and I just she was so cute and I wanted her to like me, and you might know who I'm talking about. And brunette, and it was passing notes, you know? Do you like me? Yes or no in kindergarten, simpler times, yeah, I believe so. I might not have told her, but maybe you're passing notes to yourself.

Alan Lazaros 19:03

No, no, this is either kindergarten or elementary school, but yeah for sure, okay, yeah, interesting, I, my first girlfriend, was in third grade, sir I mean.

Kevin Palmieri 19:15

So here's the thing, here's the thing. I, I was no older than what Third grade? How old were you in third grade?

Alan Lazaros 19:28

I have no freaking clue.

Kevin Palmieri 19:30

I'd have to work back.

Alan Lazaros 19:31

I know that you're 14 as a freshman in high school, 14 or 13. So then you work your way back. You got four years, so you're looking at 10 for elementary school. So you're probably nine, nine in third grade, eight or nine elementary school.

Kevin Palmieri 19:43

So you're probably nine, nine in eighth grade, eight or nine, taft was elementary Correct. Yeah, I was making out with my neighbor in her treehouse in middle school.

Alan Lazaros 20:02

Yeah, Not good, I don't think the very this is gonna be. We'll get back on the value in a school. Yeah, not good, I don't think the very this is gonna be. We'll get back on the value in a second. This is the first time I ever made it with anyone was when I was in seventh grade or eighth grade. It was a woman from, a girl from Northbridge, the town near us, and I remember thinking this is the best thing ever of all time.

Kevin Palmieri 20:23

I don't think I was thinking that because I didn't really know what was happening.

Alan Lazaros 20:26

I was like I was too young to understand like what's what's happening here? Like what's the point.

Kevin Palmieri 20:33

It was the goal. What's the what's the point? What's the goal?

Alan Lazaros 20:35

what's the goal? I look back now and it's like I, I feel like there was.

Kevin Palmieri 20:39

I feel like that explains a lot of my problems.

Alan Lazaros 20:42

I do I really we were watching what's the snow dogs snow dogs snow dogs I'll never forget that we were watching that on vhs and we didn't watch the movie we just made out to be young again yeah, dude, what a trip it is to just go back to a place when you didn't know how to kiss.

Kevin Palmieri 21:06

I still don't.

Alan Lazaros 21:09

We'd have to talk to Taryn about that. I'm sure she'd love that, that's one thing that I think to bring this back to the value.

Kevin Palmieri 21:15

When you're young, you don't know anything, but nobody does. This is the value. Everyone is here for this Son.

Small choices, big future

Alan Lazaros 21:22

Even kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, high school, college, corporate entrepreneurship, whatever it is, wherever you're on in that journey school, college, corporate entrepreneurship, whatever it is, wherever you're on in that journey, when you're 10 years old, everyone seems the same. Because there isn't. You're at the beginning of the compound effect I, I, this is just a simple example. But Elon Musk's net worth and my net worth are the same at 10, the exact same at 14, the exact same at 18, the exact same at 24, then it starts to diverge. That's why, when you get older, things start to really change, because the compound effect of whatever your patterns are really start to amplify. So I have a client who's 25 years old. He's really starting to see a huge delta between his friends that he used to hang out with, party with, smoke weed with, and then him. He's three times a week now and we're just tracking metrics and habits, and he's just off to the races and he's going to achieve so much more because he's so focused on his habits and making sure he has good habits, not bad habits. And the truth is 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now, it's going to be a massive difference and we don't talk about this as much as we used to. But if you fly from Boston to LA and you're off by one degree, you end up what? 250 miles off course or something. Don't quote me on that, but it's a lot. The farther you're going, the more that one degree off matters. And you and I are seeing that in our own life as well.

Alan Lazaros 22:54

The girls that that nexted me in high school it's not what it used to be. I never could have gotten a girl like emilia in high school. Emilia in high school was really hot I'm. I never could have. I mean, she would have talked to me because she loved nerds and she loved engineers and she always was trying to learn. But like, there's no way she she dated the football star. I mean, I was a fucking loser. That wasn't you. No, no, no, little track and field though Little track and field.

Kevin Palmieri 23:19

Yeah, I remember freshman football. I was. I mean, I'm still not big, I'm stronger now, I have muscles. Now In high school I kind of did too, but I remember there was a tackling drill and you would hand the ball off to someone and they'd try to run through three other people and I, for some reason they loved to use me, and then the three biggest kids in our school. I would go home crying all the time because I got my ass kicked so bad. I think in hindsight it's pretty obvious. Our self-worth was uh. Well, I wonder what were the coaches up to? You know, like what do you? You guys get your jollies? Why am I getting the ball? Though? I'm not even a starter, I suck, you know.

Alan Lazaros 24:04

It's like it's kind of fucked up.

Kevin Palmieri 24:06

Yeah, we need somebody to get their ass kicked. Kev, kev, kev. Get him in. Line him up. Line him up.

Alan Lazaros 24:14

Yeah.

Alan Lazaros 24:14

You know, I would say you and I did not understand. No, looking back, someone asked me on a podcast earlier Shout out to Adam you went on his show last week and it's called the Truth Temple Love that this is going to be great. Hopefully you really want truth, because let's go, I adore it, it's very important. He asked me. He said what's something about growth that no one really in the beginning gets? And I said that it's terrible. In the beginning it seems awesome. You learn about the compound effect and you learn about personal development and you read the seven habits of highly effective people and you start to have more positive habits and you start to go to the gym more consistently and it's fun In the beginning it's fun.

Kevin Palmieri 25:06

Or you take naps at 11 am, like I did.

Alan Lazaros 25:08

Exactly, that's growth In the beginning the personal growth is really exciting and fun and for the most part, it's not only fulfilling but also enjoyable. Now, the way that I know someone's really growing seriously, it's how sad they are and how painful it is, and I don't want this to come off masochistic, but the way that I describe growth is you're basically just repeatedly realizing Santa Claus isn't real and neither is oh, we got to set a disclaimer now. I apologize, but that for anyone's kids who are listening.

Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:

Alan Lazaros 25:45

We do have children, that listen to this podcast, believe it or not. Yeah, we're going to put a disclaimer now. Hello, hello, hello, nlu listener. Thank you, as always, for listening to Next Level University. Real quick, I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes.

Alan Lazaros 26:16

That's what growth feels like. Real personal growth, I think, feels like being bludgeoned with hard truths that are very sad and very uncomfortable and it's like okay, so Santa Claus isn't real, the tooth fairy isn't either, the Easter bunny isn't either. And you know, you thought that this and it's actually that. And you thought your dad was this, but he's actually that. You thought your mom was this and she's actually this, and you thought that this was this and it's eh, that's not true. That's what real personal growth feels like.

Alan Lazaros 26:50

When you mature in life, you, you basically just get the naive slowly stripped out of you and if you can, if you can do that, it's almost like these are the stages. So stage one is you're just a naive kid and you don't know how. You're protected, kind of from the evils of the world for lack of better phrasing, and some of us more than others. And then you go out into the world wanting to believe that the world is good and that things are good, and and then you get your heart ripped out and shred into several pieces and bullied or whatever it is, and then you go okay, maybe the world's not so good. And then you become kind of cynical and cynical is smarter than naive and then in that cynicism you start to say, wow, the world is kind of messed up. Like there's people starving and this person has a yacht Like I remember when I went to LA, dude, that was weird. There's like a Bentley dealership right next to homeless people and it's like how is this a thing Right? And you just learn how fucked up the world is and and then you figure out how it works and why it works that way and it's like how is this a thing Right? And you just learn how fucked up the world is and and then you figure out how it works and why it works that way, and and then you become go from cynical to well, I can't be a part of the problem. I don't want to be a part of the problem because that's depressing as shit.

Alan Lazaros 28:03

But you try. For a little while You're like you know what I'm going to drink, maybe that'll help, and it doesn't at all. I mean, you have some fun but you're still depressed. You don't know why, you're not fulfilled. And then you realize that this isn't helping anyone, especially not me. And then you go. You know what I'm going to be the change I wish to see in the world.

Alan Lazaros 28:23

And you go back to naive and you're like ah, personal growth, that's the thing, and it's super fun. In the beginning it's like, oh, everyone wants to grow and everyone wants to reach their potential and everyone loves self-improvement. And then you slowly realize that that's not even remotely true and that you're absolutely alone on this journey, statistically speaking, because if everyone was into self-improvement, the world would be utopia. And then you eventually go cynical again, but at a different level. And then you go okay, well, that's. I don't want to be a cynic and I still want to be the change I wish to see in the world.

Alan Lazaros 28:58

And now I'm a more developed version and now I got to face my past and realize that almost everything I thought I knew was wrong. But maybe I'm more than I originally thought and everyone else was less than I originally thought, so that's alarming. And then you settle into this place of maturity of, okay, I've been swinging back and forth my whole fucking life and maybe the truth is in the center and maybe the world isn't good or bad, maybe it's both, and maybe I can be a part of the good and maybe I can really lead by example, because it turns out no one did from my perspective, and maybe I am more than I originally thought perspective, and maybe I am more than I originally thought and maybe I am more than where I came from and maybe my terrible childhood isn't gonna define me and maybe that stuff that started as revenge actually can turn into something way more than that which is a calling, and maybe, just maybe, I can help more people reach their true potential than anyone in history if I really gave it my all, because I know I'll regret it if I don't. And again, I just described, obviously, my frame.

Alan Lazaros 29:59

But the the point for everyone out there watching or listening is whether you started out good or bad, or negative or positive or constructive or destructive.

Alan Lazaros 30:10

I started destructive and then went constructive and then destructive and then constructive.

Alan Lazaros 30:14

We're all in this yin and yang of what the hell is this and who the hell am I and what am I going to do about it.

Alan Lazaros 30:22

And I think that at the end of the day, you have to eventually reach this place where it's like okay, I'm not naive anymore. I know the world is inherently dangerous and savage and very scary. However, I'm going to become strong enough and smart enough to where I can actually protect me and my family from that, not from a place of hiding, but from a place of strength, and then I'm going to try to fight for the good, and I think that's the growth journey in a nutshell. And the truth is, to make this all full circle is that's what people don't realize about growth is most of it is actually really challenging. In the social world, it sounds cool and it looks cool and the results are cool. In the real world, it's really a grind and it's very heartbreaking. And luckily, you can come back stronger from all that and and certainly with more meaning, and I think meaning is the thing that you can really orient around epic monologue.

Kevin Palmieri 31:23

All I could think in the very beginning that I was like, okay, I'm not gonna interrupt alanis to make this joke because it'd be highly disrespectful, because this is like actually going somewhere and it's deeply meaningful and I can tell. But next level university, your daily dose of negativity that's all I can think of. When you first started that, I was like, yeah, no, we've gone pretty dark.

Alan Lazaros 31:42

We have gone pretty dark or more truthful?

Kevin Palmieri 31:45

I think it is that I do. I did a video yesterday on Instagram. It is that I do. I think it is. I did a video yesterday on Instagram on my story where I was like Instagram is such a weird fucking place where somebody will pay to get to 10,000 followers and then they'll do a celebration post that they got to 10,000 followers. I saw somebody do that the other day.

Alan Lazaros 32:01

I was like no way, no way, Brother.

The hard truth about growth

Kevin Palmieri 32:05

That ain't real. It's like using fake weights and then giving yourself a trophy Fuck yeah. It's like using fake weights and then giving yourself a trophy fuck yeah, I'm strong. No, this isn't real. What are we doing here? What are we doing? That's part one. Part two I think I think when growth gets really hard is when it goes from a like a exciting new possibility to a heavy, familiar responsibility. I think when that happens, it's like oh wow, oh yeah, I'm like I can get out of my comfort zone and it doesn't kill me, Like that's awesome.

Alan Lazaros 32:40

Oh nice.

Kevin Palmieri 32:42

But now you also know that's a choice. And now you know you can do that forever if you want to. That the first time you do that, the first time when you don't do it, you feel guilt, yeah, or shame yeah, like you're leaving it on the table.

Kevin Palmieri 32:56

Well, before it became an option, there was no choice. Once it became an option, it became a choice, and that's where it gets. That's where it gets wonky, that's where it gets really wonky. And again, if we ever sound negative, I I think right right to alan's point. We've just had the opportunity to see behind the scenes and behind the curtains and, yeah, just seen enough patterns to realize that almost nothing is really the way it seems. Yeah, and I think the sooner you know that, at least, the more prepared you can be for it.

Alan Lazaros 33:44

Almost nothing is if I could give any piece of advice to my younger self, it would be Alan. The social world and the real world are two very different things.

Kevin Palmieri 33:54

Yeah.

Alan Lazaros 33:55

And a good metaphor for this is the wedding day versus the marriage Right. Everyone's wedding day looks magnificent. Not everyone's marriage is magnificent and I would say, Alan, focus on the marriage.

Kevin Palmieri 34:08

In this metaphor, another good one. And again, I'm not saying this from a place of judgment, this is from a place of exploration and just learning and understanding. Go, look on, go on to go to a YouTube channel where the person does interviews. Look at the thumbnail picture of the guest and then look at the video of the guest. I did that the other day and I was like, oh my goodness, these do I didn't, I would not even know. This is the same person.

Alan Lazaros 34:39

Now again is it generated?

Kevin Palmieri 34:43

no, no, no, it's just like it's a photo shoot versus yeah, a thursday, but same, thing, same.

Alan Lazaros 34:51

thing.

Kevin Palmieri 34:52

You look at the artwork, I don't look exactly like I look in the artwork right now. Alan does, I don't. That was from a photo shoot. If you go, look at certain pictures.

Alan Lazaros 35:02

The podcast artwork.

Kevin Palmieri 35:03

The thumbnails are from this episode, so they're going to look exactly the same. That's what I thought you meant. That's why.

Kevin Palmieri 35:08

No, no yeah fair point, exactly the same. That's what I thought you meant. That's why no, no, yeah, fair point, but from the podcast artwork, or you can go and look at social media like I have pictures from when I got married. I don't, that's not the way it is now, but that's always been. I'm not saying that I don't do it. I think I'm more, I'm trying to be more aware of when I'm doing things. So if you go and look and somebody's profile picture is from them seven years ago, imagine what that does internally to someone. Seven years is a long-ass time. This podcast barely existed seven years ago. That was a long time ago. Am I saying you should do a new profile picture? No, Because it doesn't matter that much, but we treat it like it does matter that much. And it's this weird. It's this weird thing. This will be the last thing I say before we get out of here.

Kevin Palmieri 35:59

I saw somebody post the other day. They posted I don't care if people like me, I don't care if people hate me, I don't care. And I was thinking to myself I know that comes off as a flex oh, this person is so centered in themselves that they don't care what people think. I don't think that's the ultimate place to get to. I don't think that is. I think there's ego involved in that. I think we all care what people think I do I do. Now there's a difference between saying well, I used to just be so obsessed with what other people thought of me that it controlled every facet of my life. Now I do my own thing and I deal with the feelings that I get.

Kevin Palmieri 36:38

I think that's drastically different. I think the real flex is caring deeply about those that you care deeply for Sorry, yeah. Caring deeply about what those that you care deeply for sorry, yeah. Caring deeply about what those that you care deeply for think about you and showing up every day and doing your best and growing and evolving and taking their feedback, especially when it hurts and especially when it sucks. I'm not saying you should let strangers dictate your life, but I feel like if there's somebody in your life that really cares about you and really values you, I think you should care about what they think, as long as it's healthy. I care what Alan thinks. Of course I do. I care what my wife thinks? Of course I do. I care what the team thinks.

Alan Lazaros 37:21

Can you?

Kevin Palmieri 37:22

imagine if you didn't. I think some people are trying to get people there. You shouldn't care what anybody thinks. Well, no, that's dumb. Get people there. It's like you shouldn't care what anybody thinks. Well, no, that's dumb. I think that's dumb. Yeah, it is.

Alan Lazaros 37:33

It's like an ego thing. I don't care. I was thinking about this earlier in the podcast. I know we got to jump, but I told on the Truth Temple, shout out to Adam. I said when you, the more that you go on this growth journey and the more success that you achieve, I think sometimes not always there needs to be this big ego around you because you have to protect yourself, because you're getting attacked a lot. It's been really alarming to me that the more and more I've climbed on my own growth journey, my own metaphorical mountain, there's been more love and more inspiration and more motivation and more profitability and more clients and more team and more. But there's also been quite a bit tearing down on this journey, trying to tear down. And I remember thinking to myself why, why are you trying to tear down? Like all we're trying to do is help people learn and grow to their true potential. It's not like we're doing negative things in the world. And even I mean I have people that I disagree with. There's, there's, let's say, there's a politician that I can't stand. I'm not going to go hate comment on their stuff, I'd rather just go build our thing. Why waste my time and effort on that Right. And he said well, why do people why do you think people tear people down? And I said I think it's significance.

Alan Lazaros 38:54

I personally, even when I was being torn down and I was being bullied in high school, I never bullied back. There was one time when I was in third grade Josh his name's Josh and a fourth grade. Fourth grade I was going through a hard time and I bullied him for at recess for like a two or three month period. I would trip him you know how you put your leg out and then push him over and he was a little kid and I was a bully for like a very, very, very short amount of time and I just felt so much shame. I was like you know what, no, I'm not gonna do that anymore. I just stopped. I completely stopped, and I think that's a. That's just a phase that some people never grow out of. Sometimes I'll get someone who shits on me and I'll think to myself like if you put half as much time and effort into shitting on me as you did into your own career, you'd be I mean, you'd be flourishing, right. Why are you wasting your time trying to tear down us? And? And so I think it's phases, right. So you, you, when you're a kid, we'll go through, okay, kindergarten. You don't care about what anyone thinks, because you don't think about what anyone thinks. You're just kind of being and.

Alan Lazaros 39:58

And then you're in elementary school and you start to care what people think, and, but maybe not that much. And then you get to middle school and you really start to want to be one of the popular kids and you really want to fit In and you start to know who's who. So that's the science kids. You know, these are the nerds, these are the jocks. Where do I fit? Am I tall? Am I short? Am I hitting puberty? Why not? What's the deal? I'm joking, all right.

Alan Lazaros 40:19

And then high school, and then it really becomes. You care so deeply about what everyone thinks about you and the social hierarchy. And here's the hot girls and here's the popular girls and here's the girls that are popular but they're not hot, but they're still popular, I don't know why. Here's the guys that can dunk a basketball and look like grown men, that are sleeping with the teachers. It's a whole freaking thing.

Alan Lazaros 40:38

And then you get into college and you do the same thing, but on a greater level. And then you get into corporate and you're like okay, who's the richest and what's this about and why does this matter? And then there's the office politics and all that stuff. And then you get into the world of entrepreneurship and you realize that, okay, even this industry of self-improvement is completely full of shit compared to what I thought. And you just learn through and your naive goes away.

Alan Lazaros 41:01

And so you go through these phases of I do care what people think. And then I well, I don't think about what people think at all. And then I really think about what people think at all. And then I really care about what people think, but I pretend I don't because I'm in high school. And then you realize you know what, I'm just gonna own it. I do care what people think, especially the people I care about. And then eventually it's like wait a minute, do I even really care what other people think anymore? Because it's not gonna work anyway. But I do still care what emilia thinks and kevin thinks and that kind of thing.

Alan Lazaros 41:29

And then you eventually reach this point of acceptance of okay, I care what people think and I always will, but yet less than I ever have. And now I have to be all of me because I can't inspire and motivate someone without also triggering potential envy, and so me shrinking isn't going to help anybody. But yet I don't want to come off toxic either, so I have to be all of me, but in a way that's palatable. So now I have to learn how to communicate effectively but also be all of my intensity, and then make sure I know my audience and you realize you can't win any of this game, so the only thing you really can win is being better than you used to be, and eventually you get to this place where it's I just want to be better than I used to be. I haven't arrived, I'm still striving, and I just want to be the better person and I want to be better at speaking and I want to be a better podcaster and a better coach and a better trainer, and I want to be in better shape and I want to work on myself, and I think that's a really fulfilling journey.

Alan Lazaros 42:32

And then the more you do that, the more you're a mirror for other people, so the more you trigger them, and then it gets even harder, in a way.

Alan Lazaros 42:40

So it's this never ending journey of challenges that you have to face, and so, to start with what we started with the episode is is revenge the best? No, no, but I do think it can drive you to be better and I think that if that stays your main driver, I think that can be really detrimental, and I think eventually it has to be bigger than you and eventually it has to be for something that is of fulfillment to you. And then you have to live more in the real world than the social world. You have to, because eventually you get to the top of the social hierarchy and you realize that it's not fulfilling at fucking all. It's not what you thought, but it is necessary for success, because if no one looks up to you, then you don't have anyone who you inspire. So it's this, this whole thing, and I think that you and I are in a place in our life now in our mid-30s, where we're very honest with this stuff.

Kevin Palmieri 43:38

I don't think other people talk about this well, it does seem extremely negative for a self-improvement podcast. I think that's, but I why is? Why is improvement equated to positive, right, like when you're improving yourself physically? Sometimes you're like working on stuff that's negative. Oh yeah, you're getting rid of your bad habits, or whatever it is. I think the ultimate goal is to get to the place where you care what you think about yourself more than anybody else. That's fire In the right way, though. That's one thought. And then you said why do people tear people down? What's easier Building? When I was younger, I would literally take out a deck of cards and I would try to build a card house.

Alan Lazaros 44:28

So hard, brutal, what's harder.

Kevin Palmieri 44:30

Building it or knocking it down? Yeah, knocking so hard Brutal. What's harder Building it or knocking it down? Yeah, knocking it down, anybody can knock it down. Just walk by it, give it a little. Yeah, you know, building something is way harder than tearing it down. Way harder than tearing it down Because it requires zero commitment to tear somebody else's shit down. Just walk by and say, huh, you suck, it's that, go build your own thing. Go build your own thing and then, when it falls down, you can rebuild it. And then you can rebuild it. And then I think that's why there is that level of negativity, because when you're not building something, you don't know what it's like for people to throw shit at the house of cars that you're building. But when you do, you don't want to do that to somebody else. Fuck, I don't want to do that to you. You're in your second layer. Hell, yeah, man, good for you, good for you. You better put a concrete wall around that thing so nobody knocks it over. There's some assholes out there, you know.

Alan Lazaros 45:32

Very last thing, oh for Fletcher's sake Nothing.

Kevin Palmieri 45:35

Hey, with all the love, I love you to death. I know you haven't said a single short thing in this episode. No, I know, but this one will be. You've been building pyramids, Like you're negative two, and then the're zero years old, and you're one and then you're six.

Alan Lazaros 45:51

Go ahead. It's like seeing a group of siblings One of them gets a new bike and the other sibling is so jealous and conniving that they ruin the bike because they're jealous they didn't get one. I think a lot of adults are still like that and I think it's very unfortunate. And for any adults that are out there like that, you really got to look in the mirror and ask yourself what that's doing for you, because unfortunately, there's a lot of people that never matured emotionally and I know there's reasons for that. I get it, you know, emotionally immature parent. There's books, there's all this stuff. I'm researching, studying, relationship talks, coaching but I get it. Listen, I get it Doesn't doesn't make it okay. It doesn't make it okay. Me tearing you down for me to feel bigger is the dumbest shit ever.

Kevin Palmieri 46:37

Punch you right in your throat. You're going to tear me down.

Alan Lazaros 46:40

Well, that's good, and you?

Kevin Palmieri 46:41

should? You're going to tear me down? You're fucking with the wrong one. You come to me. I'm talking about Alan, not you. Whether you're watching or listening, please leave me alone, I am not.

Alan Lazaros 46:51

For your hate mail. It's Kevin at NextLevelUniversecom.

Kevin Palmieri 46:55

Well, you know what we want to tell it like it is. We want to tell it like it is and we've had the privilege of growing a lot and we've worked really hard and really diligently every single day for the last, however many years, and there are some downsides that come with the upsides. That is just the way she goes. As they say, all right, next Level Nation. If you are looking to be the most consistent version of yourself, specifically when it comes to fitness, we have a WhatsApp group, totally free. You don't have to sell us anything, you don't have to give us any body parts to join, totally free. But it is the Next Level Fitness Accountability Group and Alan and myself are in there pretty much every day and we post our workout pictures and, yeah, it's just a good community of people who are into fitness, whatever.

Kevin Palmieri 47:36

That means People doing hot yoga, people doing walking, whatever. Whatever you want to do to move your body for X amount of minutes per day. If you're looking for some necessity, if you're looking for some accountability, you already listened to the podcast and you want more of us. You'll see us in there every day. So just reach out to me. You can email me, kevin, at nextleveluniversecom at neverquitkid on Instagram, wherever, wherever you want. Facebook, kevin Palmieri, whatever's easiest for you, shout out.

Alan Lazaros 48:04

Charlie in there. Richard Steph Kev what's up, man? Hey, what's up, man. Hey, what's happening? Me? I'm in there, you're in there. Heather's in there, jenna. Shout out, shout out, shout out. It's just a bunch of people trying to get in better shape. There's no bullies allowed. Andrew, my man. What's up? Yeah, just a bunch of people trying to keep after it and they're on the grind they are on the grind I will be doing push day this evening and I will be sending a progress pic.

Kevin Palmieri 48:36

Accountability photograph are you stalling you? Have you working on a dramatic reading over there or something you stalling?

Alan Lazaros 48:42

okay, no, no, I just I love the fitness accountability group. Man, I'm just gonna make sure it's great stuff. Keep you on the rails. And also, I wasn't actually stalling for that.

You’re not alone in your journey

Alan Lazaros 48:52

For someone out there on the growth journey who feels really alone, you're not alone. That's not uncommon, and you might not know that because you might not coach now 24 people very grateful. I coach enough people To where these, these problems and these challenges of feeling alone and being shit on by your friends and being shit on by your family Not everybody, but a lot of people on this. There's not a single person I've ever helped on their growth journey towards their goals and dreams that didn't deal with some level of resistance from friends, family, past peers, high school friends, college friends, corporate friends. If you are struggle, bus, reach out. You're not alone. Everyone needs a good trainer in their corner. Everyone needs a good coach in their corner.

Alan Lazaros 49:37

I'll be in your corner and I'll help you understand that this is not uncommon. This is totally common. This is par for the course. This is what it takes. You're not going to watch a movie and have the hero of the movie have no resistance, no villains, no challenges, no bosses. Yeah, it would be a terrible movie. So, uh, life is the hero's journey and you're the hero of your own story, and if you want to achieve your goals and dreams, you're gonna have to go through some stuff, and you're not alone in that, and definitely everyone needs a mentor or a guide or a coach or a trainer in their corner, and I hope that I can be that for you. So so, reach out on Instagram or Facebook personal, both of which will be in the show notes, don't grow alone.

Outro

Kevin Palmieri 50:14

You don't have to. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and at NLU, we do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros 50:26

Stay Next Level, next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri 50:30

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next.

Alan Lazaros 50:36

Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri 50:46

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.