Don’t Confuse Arrogance With Confidence (1970)

In today’s episode of Next Level University, Kevin and Alan explore what it means to “go with the flow” and why it’s different for everyone. They share personal stories, lessons from coaching, and surprising truths about success that most people overlook. Whether you’re someone who thrives on achievement or prefers a more flexible approach, this conversation will help you clarify what works for you.

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Show notes:
(3:27) Why arrogance is often a mask for insecurity
(7:44) Social media personas Vs. Real-life confidence
(13:57) How some of the loudest voices are the least helpful
(26:08) Why true confidence doesn’t need to puff up
(28:23) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/3Ec6ad9
(38:44) The hidden cost of arrogance in life and relationships
(45:59) Why fulfillment comes from working on the inside, not just the outside
(53:27) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri 0:00

Because that's not how it works. You don't do that, but they are all paying in some way, shape or form. Cool, awesome, now you can talk about that. So I don't know. I think the hard thing is you confuse what you see in other people with what you feel about yourself and it makes you feel like you're supposed to be more like other people, and I don't know if that's really true.

Alan Lazaros 0:22

Where do you fall on this spectrum? Are you a 10 out of 10 confident in your real life and then have to be warm and loving on social media to compensate? Or are you 10 out of 10 insecure in your real life and you're actually super hyper masculine on social media to try to come off as stronger than you really are? And if nothing else comes from this episode, hopefully some self-awareness.

Kevin Palmieri 0:46

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros 0:51

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri 0:54

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros 1:00

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri 1:07

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros 1:23

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri 1:29

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1970, 1,970, the year I was born. And that is not true. Don't confuse arrogance with confidence. So I was thinking of today. I was thinking of what do I want to post on social media. I was like I want to post a quote, I want to post a quote on social media and I was thinking what do I think based on what I see in the world? What do I think is valuable? What might help somebody think in a different way?

Why arrogance is often a mask for insecurity

Kevin Palmieri 2:10

A lot of things go through my head and today's post was a lot of guys are out here confusing arrogance for confidence and weakness for humility. And here's the truth. I understand why arrogance seems like something to aspire to and I think it's the aura of you can never hurt someone who's arrogant. It almost seems like you're bulletproof. It almost seems like nothing anybody ever says to you could hurt you. But in reality, arrogance is a mask for insecurity behind the scenes. It just doesn't look that way, but I understand why you might aspire to it. If you didn't understand the downsides of arrogance. You look super self-assured, you look like you're confident in who you are. You're confident in your character, you're confident in situations, but in the reality of it, any arrogant person I've ever known was wildly insecure, and that's why they had the mask in the first place. They weren't centered, they weren't confident who they were, and you would never know that unless you saw them behind the scenes, because they're really good at putting on that mask. That's what's gotten them to where they are and a lot of times that's what's kept them safe. That's what's built up their credibility, their perception, their relationships.

Kevin Palmieri 3:27

So I thought it would be a cool episode to do, because I don't know, I think I've probably had arrogance in the past. I won't say I never have, but I think confidence is far, it seems far less sexy, because there's like a calmness to it. You're never going to hear somebody who's super confident screaming. That's not. Somebody super confident doesn't scream, they don't have to. But I think that's like an arrogant thing. But you'd think the person who's screaming is confident when in reality they're really not. So, yeah, I thought it would be a cool episode to do. Here we are. What are your thoughts on all that?

Alan Lazaros 4:13

Social world Real world. Social world. Giving a speech in front of 100 people Real world Giving a speech in front of 100 people Real world. Brushing your teeth in the morning, wiping the sleepies out of your eyes, looking at your calendar, going. How in the fuck am I going to do this today?

Kevin Palmieri 4:40

You wipe sleepies out of your eyes.

Alan Lazaros 4:42

Yeah, do you? I actually wipe coconut oil into them, into your sleepies, no, no.

Kevin Palmieri 4:48

No.

Alan Lazaros 4:48

I've been using coconut oil on my face. I genuinely feel like I've been aging way more than I had hoped, which is interesting because I always felt like I looked too young. Now I'm like, uh-oh, so that's switching? Quick Cortisol stress, start a business. They said so that's switching? Quick Cortisol stress, start a business.

Alan Lazaros 5:21

They said, no, but I've been using coconut oil and I'll use it all over my face and you're not supposed to put it on your eyes, but for me it just takes so much time to try to get around it and all that. So I'm like, oh yeah, not great, but anyways, all of us go to the bathroom, all of us wake up tired, all of us have these real world scenarios where we are not dressed well. We are not like I was in a robe this morning, but that's not the version of me, you see, and that's not the version of me you're supposed to see. There's only certain people that get to see that, there's only certain versions.

Alan Lazaros 5:51

With Emilia we've been together for five years. There's certain parts of Emilia's life that only I get to see, and that's a privilege. That's what makes her my person, and not the whole world is supposed to see all that. So I understand this and I understand the social world versus the real world and I'm starting to understand and contemplate it a lot. And one of my clients said if you, you look soft on social media, you look so warm, it's all warmth and you would benefit from coming off a little harder because people think you're soft, especially men. And it's true. I mean I'm cheesing in every photo I look like a fucking goon. Let's be honest and that's okay. And you too, I mean really you and I aren't trying to look competent and hard and hardcore.

Kevin Palmieri 6:38

With the gym pictures. Yeah, we posted a lot more gym pictures.

Alan Lazaros 6:41

Yeah, and it's important too. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I do think that there's a. There's this idea in the world that when you're not smiling you're more competent, you're more strong, when in reality that's actually not true. The person who's actually strong isn't concerned about whether or not they look strong, and then they start a business and realize I'm screwed if I don't actually market myself appropriately, because if you look soft but you're actually hard, the hard people won't come to you. But if you look hard when you're actually soft, now you're in trouble because you're going to get a lot of hate that you can't handle because people think you can handle it to your point about arrogance. So everything's paradoxical and everything's the iceberg and everything's above and below it, and the social world is above the surface and the real world is below the surface, and I think that all of us have to understand this paradox, and the more confident you've become, the more you look.

Alan Lazaros 7:44

There's a picture of Kevin online where he's got his face painted as a cat at one of our charity events, and we both have our face painted in one of these. We look very soft, we look very warm, we look very loving, caring, empathetic. It's all good, but we don't look like sickos who never miss. But that's who we are. And so how do you integrate these and what I've found the coolest part about coaching over the years fitness models, friends at one point with a Patriots cheerleader, people that were. One person was a client who was famous in the greater Boston area, millionaires, one billionaire. Behind the scenes, front of the scenes, you just learn.

Alan Lazaros 8:39

Okay, some of the softest people I know and I don't mean soft negatively some of the most heart-driven, insecure people are trying to portray. I have one person I'm thinking of right now sweetest person ever, wonderful human being, such a huge fan, sweet, innocent, loving, young. If you look at her social media dude I'm not trying to be mean with this it's like you would think she was this like stoic. I am so badass and there's this part of me that's like just cut the shit. Like you're such a wonderful person. Why isn't that enough? Now I understand why it's not enough. Because when I was tall and lanky, it was harder for me to be warm, and now that I'm bigger and six, two and getting fat I'm kidding but now that I'm bigger, I it's okay to come off more warm. And so the point of this real confidence is more centered where you're not overly warm or overly stoic.

Alan Lazaros 9:47

So the picture that I posted on my story today, my hat's down and I'm not smiling and it's me in the gym and I definitely would say it's a more stoic, strong, competent look and it's a little darker too.

Alan Lazaros 9:59

I didn't brighten it any of that, okay.

Alan Lazaros 10:02

But then there's also a picture of me and emilia and her grandma on the beach and it's all smiles, cheese and probably six chins I'm joking, but two chins for sure and it's like that's okay.

Alan Lazaros 10:13

I, I'm happy to be both, but I I realize that branding, marketing, sales, if you don't have both, you're probably, in real life, the opposite, not always, but usually. And so I with Kev I'm just going to share this with everybody, whether he wants me to or not he's harder in real life than he is on his social media, and there are other men that I coach that are softer in real life than on their social media. And there are other men that I coach that are softer in real life than on their social media, and I'm always trying to get Kevin to show his hard, but he's scared to show his hard because if he does, he will turn some people off, and those are the very people he wants to help. And so we all have to understand that real confidence is very different than fake confidence, and we all have to really look at both sides of the iceberg, which is kind of the theme of this chapter for me.

Kevin Palmieri 11:04

Well, one of the interesting things about the whole thing is, I think and I guess we're yeah, we're talking mostly about men in this, but just in general, I think usually people look up to people who it seems like they've done the most amount of external work not internal work and I think those are the arrogant people. Not always, but I mean, if you were to really think about somebody I have people in mind just in social media land and they're in really good shape and every other word out of their mouth is they're dropping f-bombs all the time we swear to, but like it's like part of their thing, like I gotta be as intense as possible and they've worked really hard on themselves. Externally, they know a ton about business, they know a ton about making money awesome, great, cool but you know they haven't done that much work on themselves. You can tell, because you wouldn't. You wouldn't be as arrogant as you are, you wouldn't have as many masks as you do, you wouldn't hide behind arrogant as you are, you wouldn't have as many masks as you do, you wouldn't hide behind things as much as you do. But I don't think that seems as sexy. I don't think it seems as sexy to be centered. I don't think it seems as sexy to be quiet Not in social media land, at least, I don't think it seems as sexy. But oftentimes it's the things that are the most polarizing that are the least real and or helpful.

Kevin Palmieri 12:24

Like there's somebody shout out to Richard Richard's in the community. He sent me a video the other day of this dude in the gym who's just doing the dumbest shit ever, like hanging. But it's very impressive, like good for you to be able to do this. Nobody should do this, don't you? Don't put in the caption like yeah, you, if you really want to try a challenge, do this. That isn't what people need. They don't need to be hanging from the the uh, the handles in the middle of the cables, throwing a medicine ball over the thing with their feet and then catching it on the other side Like they don't need to do. That Looks really good on social, yeah, but that, sir, that's not how you built your abs. You built your abs and now you can do that. Awesome.

Kevin Palmieri 13:10

I'm not saying don't do it, but it's not that helpful. That's not. It's just not that. It's not that helpful in the grand scheme of things, and 99.9% of people will never be able to do that, which is why it looks really cool but it's not helpful. Some of the people that are the loudest are the least helpful. They don't know that much. They're really good at one thing Maybe they're good at making money, or they're really good at networking. They're really good at getting around people who maybe are also arrogant and maybe who are also good at making money, and then they end up getting results. And then people think that the way they're doing it is the way I need to be in order to get success, but you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Oftentimes these people are not who you think they are behind the scenes.

Alan Lazaros 13:57

I always think the opposite way of of what you want, probably good. I always think of christina. Shout out to christina. She's the coo of our company, chief operations officer, and she's short and she's. When you're in person with her, she seems uh, I don't know if mousy's the right term, but just innocent, sweet and she is all those things. It's all true, she's a badass. She's a badass, she can do a lot of shit. She's hyper-competent.

Kevin Palmieri 14:28

To a detriment where, if anything burns down, she's usually the first person to go to, so we're sorry that virtual event, dude, that we did last year.

Alan Lazaros 14:36

It was wild what she was able to do and I said 0-. How confident are you? She said in this, this is what I do 10. And she never says 10. So it's not like someone who says 10 in everything. She never says 10. So when she said 10, I'm like we're going to be fine, let's worry about in person. But it's just one of those things where it's usually.

Alan Lazaros 14:56

And then I know some people that are wildly incompetent, seriously like whoa, that act super competent and like they know everything, and it's it's really just paradoxical and I want to share this too. I've been doing a lot of studying of the real world and the social world and just trying to understand it ultimately. And then where I fit in it, that's kind of the whole point. I coached a legitimate supermodel for a time and when you look at this person's social media, she looks hyper-competent and hyper-confident. It's all rich areas with all mansions in the background and it's I get it. I'm not making this wrong, Okay, I don't even dislike this person. Like like that's not what I'm saying here. It's portraying all strength and very little warmth and you would think she was living the dream. I mean you would think her life is magnificent and I think in some ways it actually is okay in some ways. And then, but I know this person behind the scenes and we talk about her insecurities and her challenges and all this stuff. And that's what coaching is we have to work on the real stuff. We have to work on beneath the iceberg, not the surface, and I'm very honored to be that person.

Alan Lazaros 16:12

But then I look at emilia's social media and it's just her cheesing and warm as hell and, if anything, she looks like a goofball. And I have this moment where you compare their social medias. Emilia is a thousand times more confident than this person. It's not close. In real life real life, let me not exaggerate 10 times more confident, at least 10. It's probably more like000, but let's call it 10.

Alan Lazaros 16:39

In real life, behind the scenes, I live with Emilia Smith. She is way more confident than this person. It's not even close. But if you look at Emilia's social media, she comes off as very warm and very loving and very. It's pets and house and sunshine and adventures and all that. And if you look at this other person's social media, it's all strength and very little warmth. There's very little smiling and if there is, it's that sort of sexy stern look and I just it's very important for everyone out there watching or listening myself included to realize that if someone is portraying hyperconfidence, you're almost guaranteeing they're not, and if someone is portraying hyper warmth, they might be a badass and you might not know it. And Emilia could literally take half the people, probably 90% of the people that I know easily.

Kevin Palmieri 17:28

And she lives in the gym. You mean Hadouken them? Yes, easily Hadouken, yeah.

Alan Lazaros 17:32

Yeah, and in the gym, especially when we do pull day, she's so fucking strong, like, especially when we do pull day, she's so, so fucking strong, like I'm not kidding. There's certain exercises where I don't have to change the weight much and I'm a six foot two, been working out for a decade now, so it's just wild. But this other person is very skinny and not that strong and not that competent and not that dialed in. Quite frankly and I'm not trying to be mean, but Emilia is doesn't miss a trick ever, but she's coming off warm and so Emilia is sort of warming it up to make it more palatable for a wider audience. This other person is dialing up hyper confidence and competence to try to portray confidence that isn't real and it's just the truth. And I'm not saying that to make anyone wrong. I'm just saying that because it's important for everyone to know that, because Kevin and I, when we were younger, we didn't know that.

Kevin Palmieri 18:20

We really didn't.

Alan Lazaros 18:21

We had to learn that through just meeting people in real life.

Kevin Palmieri 18:24

Yeah, and being disappointed or surprised. Disappointed or surprised. There's been some people that I've gotten closer to that. I was actually more and more pleasantly surprised. That number is small in terms of people I looked up to. Small in terms of people I looked up to.

Alan Lazaros 18:39

I'll say that.

Kevin Palmieri 18:40

But when it comes to clients, I've been so surprised in so many positive ways when it comes to working closely with people.

Alan Lazaros 18:54

What can you share? Podcasters, we're all. Podcasters are here to perform and there is an aspect of performance there has to be. You're here to add value. You're here to talk to a specific listener. You're here to represent your brand. You're here to add value. You're here to talk to a specific listener.

Kevin Palmieri 19:02

You're here to represent your brand. You're here to be entertaining. Yeah, it has to be some level of entertainment. Why else would you listen if it?

Alan Lazaros 19:07

wasn't, and kevin and I are trying to make this show more like you're on the train with us and we're trying to figure out who we are while you figure out who you are, and that's very unique. But as someone who works with 67 podcasters right now, what have you noticed between the front and the behind the scenes? Because you get to see both man and this isn't to pick on anyone, this is just to illuminate for everyone the truth of everything.

Kevin Palmieri 19:36

Honestly, I think one of the most common things I've seen For everyone, the truth of everything. Honestly, I think one of the most common things I've seen, especially with coaches, is they almost kind of have to come across as arrogant because they're not confident, because they don't have any clients and they've never gotten clients. So it's a different energy, because you don't know how to be yet. What do you say? I really want to coach, but I don't feel like I'm good enough yet and I don't know if I would really charge anybody and anybody would ever pay. I mean, that's what we did in the beginning Do it for free, make sense, yeah.

Alan Lazaros 20:18

And it worked really well. It worked and and there's something to be said for the other side of that coin which is how hard was it for us to just kind of own that Right? I mean, it was would you advise us to do that again. Yes, the free, yes, but yeah, a hundred percent. I would say own whatever it is. If I could go back and talk to us, kev, I would say Kev, you are dialed in compared to most people. You need to own that more. However, don't pretend you're some world-class multimillionaire.

Kevin Palmieri 20:54

Well, in fairness, when you and I started coaching, we had been doing self-improvement every day for years, so it's not like we were faking it. I mean, I was tracking habits. We had done hundreds of podcast episodes, right, like read a bunch of books. So I would say what I always used to say in the beginning is you don't have to be a level 10 to start coaching. You just have to be one or two levels ahead of the person you're trying to help. And that's where I felt like I started. It was like do I have the answers to all of your questions? Absolutely not, and please do not think I do.

Kevin Palmieri 21:28

But if you want to be more consistent, if you need extra accountability, you want to reverse engineer some stuff. Some stuff, very small things. We're not going to be building any massive buildings here, but if you want to reverse engineer how to study for this test that you're going to take, I can help you with that, that type of stuff. But I still would say the same thing. I tell this to people all the time. Here's the thing I know you're not confident when it comes to doing what you say you're going to do. Why don't we just eliminate all the things that make us bring our ego up. You're not going to charge money for this because you don't think you're confident. Do it for free and get some reps in.

Kevin Palmieri 22:06

And then when you start talking about I was talking to a client the other day, that's real, that's not manufactured, that is actual facts. You were talking to a client the other day. Do I tell you, okay, we have 67 clients, and here let me go through the list of how much each person charges, or how much each person pays? No, because that's not how it works. You don't do that. But they are all paying in some way, shape or form. Cool, awesome. Now you can talk about that. So I don't know. I think the hard thing is you confuse what you see in other people with what you feel about yourself and it makes you feel like you're supposed to be more like other people, and I don't know if that's really true.

Alan Lazaros 22:47

The very first episode we did. Ever, Ever Kev had me on the Hyperconscious podcast. Change the way you think.

Kevin Palmieri 22:56

Yes.

Alan Lazaros 22:56

Change the way you act. Yes, change the way you fucking live, the way you act.

Kevin Palmieri 22:59

Yes, change the way you fucking live yes, also yes, yes and he opened it with welcome to the mother effing no, that was a conscious podcast the second time you were on it was yeah, that was at.

Alan Lazaros 23:11

Uh, we no no no, that was the very first one that I was on I thought that was the second one At Rachel's Was at. Yes, rachel, that was the first one. No, the first one was oh, you're talking about my show.

Kevin Palmieri 23:24

No, no, it wasn't the first one at my house, didn't we show the picture in group coaching yesterday?

Alan Lazaros 23:28

No, that's the second. That was the second one, oh.

Kevin Palmieri 23:30

I legitimately thought that was the first one. No, the first one was when I was late to.

Alan Lazaros 23:32

Rachel's.

Kevin Palmieri 23:34

You were pissed, yeah, you were. Hey little prequel, I should have known. Yeah, should have known, I should have known, should have known Okay. It's been a career out of waiting on me. I thought that was the second one.

Alan Lazaros 23:46

No, so, and welcome to the Mother F-ing Hyperconscious Podcast. If you were to listen to that show, Kevin was portraying confidence that he didn't actually have.

Alan Lazaros 23:55

Oh, I was so insecure, it was fake confidence and that's, in some ways, I think that's maybe necessary, because what is it good? How do we make this land? Okay, there's this guy at my gym Real quick Young man, in pretty good shape, all things considered, lean as hell, definitely got some good cuts on him, but he's tall and lanky and I could eat him, so to speak. But he's so insecure around me and he has a really hard time with me. He's always trying to look me in the eye and like, puff up his shoulders and try to like you know that ego bonking, shit that that guys do. And I'm in there with emilia and she's looking hot and I get it like it is what it is, just can you fuck off and let me work out? But there's always that ego bonking. That's what men do. They ego bonk. They're always doing this Like who's the alpha in the room?

Alan Lazaros 24:46

It's like the alpha in the room isn't worried about who the alpha in the room is. The alpha in the room is trying to get a workout in while you worry about all this bullshit, right, but anyways, uh, I know that the old me would have been like, why is he like that? And blah, blah, blah. The new me is just okay, he's just really insecure and he's just deep down. He probably looks up to you, but he can't give you that and he wants to be more jacked and he feels frail and insecure. And, quite frankly, my girlfriend's twice as strong as he is, so I get it, but just you got to own it. And it's this weird paradox for all of us the more you become it, the less insecure you are, and the more insecure you seem because you're not puffing up anymore. So you're not puffing up at all right now.

Alan Lazaros 25:29

The very first Kev. Imagine Kevin at 26 years old having this interview with me. Now that other Kevin would be so wildly insecure and he would have to knock me down and interrupt me in order to feel bigger. And that is just part of human nature. Just like when I was tall and lanky on the basketball court, I had to pretend to be more confident than I probably was, and then, when you actually become someone who really is confident internally, you don't have to puff up externally, and so it's the turtle and the puffer. And then, when you actually become someone who really is confident internally, you don't have to puff up externally, and so it's the turtle and the puffer, and then the turtle puff is what we call it, when you're like kind of dancing between the two.

Alan Lazaros 26:08

And so I think christina is actually amazing and she used to turtle up because she didn't want to get bullied and didn't want to outshine anyone, and if she was really herself, she would basically be better than everyone at almost everything. That's just what it is. And then she'd get attacked or ostracized from the group. And then the other side of the coin is people who actually feel incompetent as hell, who are puffing up like that person I I'm talking about anonymously, who's an absolute sweetheart, who emily and I think are is a wonderful human being. She's acting super confident and competent on social media because she doesn't want to be. She thinks it will protect her from predators. She thinks it'll protect her from guys that are going to take advantage of her. She thinks it'll protect her when in reality, she's actually attracting the guys who want to dominate her.

Alan Lazaros 26:54

It's almost like everything we really want is on the other side of facing our own internal stuff.

Kevin Palmieri 27:01

You think arrogance is ever good? Because when you started down that I thought that's where you were going to go and I wasn't going to interrupt. But I had a thought. Let's say Taryn and I are in the woods and there's a bear. I got to be arrogant to think that there's any piece of me that can do anything to that bear to save my wife but you need to make the bear think that you would yeah.

Kevin Palmieri 27:29

But let's say it's like alright, babe, start running, I'm gonna square off with him. There's no part of me that thinks I'm going to win. I'm going to die.

Alan Lazaros 27:42

But the bear might back down, depending on grizzly or black bear If you puff up and pretend to like and that's what this ultimately is. Yeah, if you were to get yourself bigger and like, widen your shoulders, and then because I've actually thought about this with the black bear thing, If it's black, if it's a black bear, you're supposed to fight back. If it's a grizzly bear, you're supposed to lie down.

Kevin Palmieri 28:04

Yeah, lie down. If it's a polar bear, you're fucking dead, you're dead.

Alan Lazaros 28:08

If it's a polar bear, you're dead. You're dead. There's no rhyme. Tear and start running because I'm not a big enough snack.

Kevin Palmieri 28:18

It's going to eat all of us.

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Alan Lazaros 28:19

They're giants NLU listener what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Alan Lazaros 28:45

But I do think that there is something to be said, for there was a black bear in my neighborhood and I thought to myself what would I do? And I do think my first response would be to try to puff up and make it seem like I'm gonna fight because the animal is gonna go and go. Is this not worth it? I might actually get hurt. Here there's a cost value analysis. It's called opportunity cost. Like these animals are not gonna risk it, although some of them will for sure, and so you can't tell like a buck.

Alan Lazaros 29:12

For example, we go down to south carolina. Emilia's family has a place there and there's tons of deer in south carolina. This particular spot. Keep it anonymous just because I don't want to give anything away ever, but anyways. So emilia is big on as public figures, not giving away where we live and where we all that kind of stuff I know taryn's big on that too, as we should be, and we need to be careful, seriously, uh, especially me, I give away too much anyways. So the point that I'm making is there's a lot of deer on this island in South Carolina yeah, peninsula and I'm always walking with her because we're 1072 days of exercise and we're not going to miss. And we're certainly not going to miss because there might be a buck who wants to stand up to the kid, and I would not. It would. I mean that would not be good right, it would ultimately be.

Alan Lazaros 30:05

But here's what I would try. I would try to make myself bigger. So it would say you know what? Not worth it now. Maybe that would actually make it him want. It's like a challenge. The buck is now challenged and now it's the alpha to see who gets the female type of thing.

Alan Lazaros 30:19

And I think that's ultimately what everybody's doing in the social world. I really I don't mean to come off condescending, but one thing that I've learned as I've gotten more and more mature is that a lot of human beings are just really immature and primitive, and what I mean and myself included in the past it's kind of like who's the alpha on this basketball court and who's the who's going to get the hottest girl and who's it's all. That is just fucking stupid, it's just really dumb. But unfortunately we're all primitive and we are animals and and we still are letting those things run us, and so I do think arrogance can be useful in very, very, very unique circumstances well, maybe that for next level, live 2026.

Kevin Palmieri 31:00

I'm gonna box a grizzly bear in a humane way and it wouldn't matter because there would be nothing I would get mauled. So I don't think I could do anything to hurt Gary the Grizzly.

Alan Lazaros 31:12

Can I ask you this? You were small and short.

Kevin Palmieri 31:15

Yes, I'm still short, still to this day, when you're around huger, huger large men.

Alan Lazaros 31:21

Did you ever get insecure and puff up.

Kevin Palmieri 31:25

I think my natural tendency is to just be quiet because I don't want to puff up. And here this is the thing too, like, as arrogant as this sounds, like I'm not, there's not a lot of men that I'm going to are afraid, I'm afraid, are going to beat me up Like I'm not. Really I don't. I mean, I've trained, do you?

Alan Lazaros 31:43

think that's why you trained. So that you didn't have to puff up.

Kevin Palmieri 31:47

No, I trained because I wanted to fight professionally, and that's where it all started.

Alan Lazaros 31:53

I think that's why I started lifting you. Sure, none of that came from wanting to be able to protect yourself if you had to. Because ultimately, that's one of the things that is so hard to understand is, if Kev knows how to fight and he's trained and he's actually confident in his ability to fight, he doesn't have to puff up.

Kevin Palmieri 32:12

I have a different relationship with it because I was never bullied. Really for my size, I was never picked on. So no, it wasn't.

Alan Lazaros 32:20

What about your cousin who knocked you out with a chair?

Kevin Palmieri 32:23

I could have beat the shit out of him if I wanted to. I just didn't. I kind of liked it. I mean, I wanted to be a professional wrestler and I wanted to be a stuntman for a while. There was always a piece of me that was like I want to see how much of a beating I can take. That's a weird thing. I understand that's not, but I kind of like that. I don't know how to explain it. I like seeing.

Kevin Palmieri 32:46

We used to ride our scooters down the hill and we would build like this we would shovel a ton of snow like into the side of the road and we would just hit the snow bank as fast as we could to see how many like flips we could do. Yeah, it was like the fun, it was awesome, it was the funnest. But like, I hurt myself occasionally and that's why I liked grappling, because when you're grappling you can grapple with someone who's way better than you and you don't really get hurt that bad. With boxing and kickboxing you get a concussion, that's. That's that's. You know that's more dangerous, but I don't know. I think it's. It's different. I, for me, I think that again, there's a lot of people out there that can kick my ass. I'm not saying trust me, I'm.

Alan Lazaros 33:23

I'm not saying that, but I think confidence is certainty Do you ever have guys trying to ego bonk with you where they want to Very rarely, yeah, and maybe it's because I'm short. Yeah, maybe, maybe it's because I'm short, I get that stuff a lot. It's really especially intellectually Well.

Kevin Palmieri 33:44

I mean, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense, but I don't know, Maybe it's because I'm not a towering figure and people are like, ah, it's not worth it. I don't know. I don't know what the things like, what the intangibles when it comes to that, are.

Alan Lazaros 34:00

Yeah, very rarely does that happen?

Alan Lazaros 34:04

I watch. I'll watch reactions from women around Emilia and it's very fascinating to study. She just triggers. She just triggers them and their response is usually to puff up or to shell up and I think that that's just part of human nature. I mean, if you were to be around someone who is intimidating, there's this video that we listened to at NLU. It's called the intimidation factor and it goes through the 15 signs that you're intimidating Everyone around you is the name of the. That's literally the name of the video the 15 signs that you're intimidating everyone around you. And we went through all 15 of them and Emilia and I checked every one of those. And that client of mine who mine who said well, your social media is too warm. It's like I think you're. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you understand what it's like to be so intimate. Like. Do you think I'm intimidating by nature? Or like, am I too warm? Am I too hardcore?

Kevin Palmieri 35:05

no, I say this to alan all the time when I it's like I get anxious when I go see you when I'm at alan's house and alan and amelia there, I get time. It's like I get anxious when I go see you when I'm at Alan's house and Alan and Amelia are there. I get anxious Because it's like the energy is so fucking serious. But it's not a physical thing. That's not what it is for me.

Alan Lazaros 35:20

If you and I got locked in a room?

Kevin Palmieri 35:23

if you and I got locked in a room?

Alan Lazaros 35:24

I'm coming out of that room. But here's the thing what if that anxiety that you feel is other people are triggered?

Alan Lazaros 35:31

and I think they are, or or shell yeah, and what if every interaction we have is is like, not the real version of anybody unless they get close enough to be safe? It's psychological safety and it's physical safety. And there are certain people. I'll never forget this.

Alan Lazaros 35:48

I would saw Tony Robbins speak in Boston and he's a very large man I think he's six, seven and I was sitting down and he was right in front of me. He walks through the audience and all that and I had this really cool moment of it's cool to see you in person, because obviously I've seen a lot of you online and you know seminars and all this and I had that moment of I could see. I could see why you trigger people. I could see why you're just a very large bit and he's a big energy. That's what I would say. Not only is he physically big, but he's a big fucking energy and he's trying to fill the whole stadium with his energy.

Alan Lazaros 36:21

So I just think there's certain people that are even even you and I right now I'm very intense. I don't mean to be, I'm just. I have a lot in here and I'm dialing most of it down and trying to channel it toward value, but there's so much more bottled inside of me that I want to fucking get out that I'm allowing out. And I think that the more you become internally, people can sense that. They can sense your conviction, they can sense your tenacity, they can sense your commitment and you just become so your commitment and you just become so much. And as you grow and grow and grow, it does.

Alan Lazaros 36:52

It intimidates people who are kind of hanging out, and I don't make that wrong. I think everyone should be who they are. But I'm really trying to figure out who I am in all this and I do think I understand now why I come off so arrogant to other people, people and I want to find a way to stay centered in all that without losing who I actually am. And for anyone watching or listening, where do you fall on this spectrum? Are you a 10 out of 10 confident in your real life and then have to be warm and loving on social media to compensate? Or are you 10 out of 10 insecure in your real life and you're actually super hyper masculine on social media to try to come off as stronger than you really are? And if nothing else comes from this episode, hopefully some self-awareness will.

The hidden cost of arrogance in life and relationships

Kevin Palmieri 37:45

I think if you're somebody who is hyper, hyper, hyper confident, you've got to get around people who are better than you for sure, because I think that helps you to stay humble. And I think if you're somebody who struggles a ton with, maybe you're like hyper arrogant. I think one of the reasons you're arrogant is because you don't. You don't ever put yourself in rooms with people better than you. Because if you, if you, found out that somebody was better than you, it would. It would break that mask, it would break that mask, it would break that mask and that would be a really challenging thing. And when I said if you and I were in a room, I'm coming out, I don't mean you and me, I just mean that's like a mindset thing for me. That's always been kind of like a mindset thing for me and I think that's why I have a different relationship maybe with bigger people than other people do. I realize it doesn't matter how big you are if you don't know what the hell you're doing. You know like size and ability do not come together.

Alan Lazaros 38:44

You used to be insecure and I think some of our greatest strengths come from what we do about our insecurities, and I think that you had intellectual insecurities and all that stuff For sure, and you've built yourself into someone who I don't know. It's like okay, feel insecurity, try your best to do to overcome it. Do something positive, do something positive to overcome it. So, for me, I was insecure about being lanky, so I wanted to get jacked. For you, you were insecure about being dumb, so you wanted to get smarter. I think there's there's something to be said for owning your insecurity and then doing something about it, versus just trying to be arrogant or whatever yeah, yeah, 100.

Kevin Palmieri 39:27

I fitness for me that I started lifting weights because I was small and that's why I started lifting weights. It's like I'm not growing vertically. This is it. We've kind of reached our cap, unfortunately at 16 years of age. Not ideal, but I happen to have good genetics and I like lifting weights and my friends like lifting weights, Like let's go see what happens here, and then I think the combat thing was just like the next kind of the next evolution of that, do you?

Kevin Palmieri 39:57

think there's ever a time for arrogance. I would say privately, if it gets you to do something you wouldn't do, yeah, if I would say it's arrogant. If you're a speaker, you're backstage, you start getting nervous. Oh geez, this is going to go horribly wrong. If you say to yourself, honestly, fuck all these people, I don't even care what they think, and I'm going to imagine they're not there, I don't even care about them. I think that's a little bit arrogant. I mean, you're there to speak to them, but if that gets you out on stage and you actually do the thing and you add value, and then after you're like shit, I can't pump myself up that way. Next time I gotta figure out a better way than that, I would say that's constructive. Yeah, I would say that, but it's personal, it's private and it doesn't get on anybody else. I think that's when arrogance is really dangerous.

Kevin Palmieri 40:52

Look, if you want to be arrogant, you go be arrogant and your life is not going to be that good Behind the scenes. It's not going to be that good. Can you go into why? I agree, because you're not going to take action. You're going to assume you're better than everybody. Even you don't do anything. You are going to attract people that just aren't positive. You're going to attract people who are probably arrogant and or victims, unfortunately, of arrogance. You're probably not going to have that many deep relationships that are actually meaningful and you're not going to be fulfilled. You might be successful externally.

Kevin Palmieri 41:33

Arrogance and money, unfortunately, I think, come together pretty quickly and pretty nicely because you're just delusional. But fulfillment you're not going to be fulfilled if you're arrogant, because it's not real, you're not living, you're not. I think part of fulfillment is like getting to know the root of who you are, the essence, as you've been saying, the essence of who you are. If you're arrogant, you probably haven't done the work yet. You probably haven't done that much work, just like if you're insecure, maybe you are doing the work but there's more work to be done, right? So I would much rather be insecure than arrogant, because I think it's easier to build confidence than it is to build humility. I think, I don't know, maybe that's a me thing it's easy for me to say because I came from hyper-insecurity.

Alan Lazaros 42:21

If anyone wants to know the recipe for building humility it's set impossible goals, and repeatedly bludgeon yourself with the reality. Last question I know we got to jump. Yeah yeah, you posted this that we're talking about today.

Kevin Palmieri 42:35

I did, yes, you posted it today and the exact quote was people mistake confidence for arrogance. A lot of guys are out here confusing arrogance for confidence and weakness for humility. It was the exact quote.

Alan Lazaros 42:48

Okay, why did you post that and what do you mean by the second part?

Kevin Palmieri 43:02

I thought it was a cool thought that would create some level of questioning things. And I think that you know one of the first big tattoos I got. It goes from my chest down to my. It's like a half-sleeve chest piece and it's an angel and devil playing chess for control of the world and the devil's winning. And I've had a lot of people ask like that's kind of dark, that's wait, what? I think that's arrogance versus humility. I think that's arrogance versus confidence. I think somebody who's arrogant it's really easy for them to hurt a lot of people, even if you don't know you're being hurt. So, like I, just if I, if I was a 16 year old kid, it's different now than it was when you and I were 16. When we were 16, there wasn't really social media like there is today.

Alan Lazaros 43:54

No, there wasn't at all. No, it's MySpace Dude.

Kevin Palmieri 43:57

And again, I wasn't on my. I didn't have MySpace. I got Facebook, I think, in like 2007. Maybe later, I don't know. But there's a lot of people portraying themselves as confident and they have a model girlfriend and they have a bunch of these cars and blah, blah, blah, blah and they're just dicks and they're just arrogant. But a lot of young men look up to that Because they think, ooh, that's what I want. That dude's got a Lamborghini and a model wife.

Alan Lazaros 44:27

That's what I want. You know what you need to do is look at him at 70, when he's divorced and miserable, and he neglected his kids.

Kevin Palmieri 44:35

But you can't, yeah, you can't, you can't Because the life cycle of that. You've got to look at the other side of that iceberg.

Alan Lazaros 44:40

It's so important to see what's on the other side. Okay, what is on the other side of that iceberg?

Kevin Palmieri 44:46

I think you need to look at character. Character is not sexy.

Alan Lazaros 44:51

Let's say you're 16-year-old Kev, and you see that guy on social media with the Lamborghini, acting confident when he's really not with a model wife. Yeah, what is the downside? What would you share beneath that iceberg that you think is actually quite?

Kevin Palmieri 45:06

alarming. Well 16-year-old Kev wouldn't question it at all because I wouldn't know better.

Alan Lazaros 45:12

It's so dangerous.

Kevin Palmieri 45:15

Well, that's why I like that quote.

Alan Lazaros 45:18

But, again.

Why fulfillment comes from working on the inside, not just the outside

Kevin Palmieri 45:18

Is a 16-year-old going to see that and resonate with it? I don't know, not in all cases, not across the board, but oftentimes those are the relationships where, after they end, you hear the horrible things that were happening in whatever way that is. Oftentimes I know a ton of people on social media who are balling that don't have any money. It's not real, it's all fake. It's all fake. They're lying about almost everything and, honestly, I I would bet a large amount of money that when they go to bed at night they're sad and unfulfilled.

Kevin Palmieri 45:59

Yeah yeah, okay, they're sad and unfulfilled because none of it is real. It all looks really good from the outside looking in, but from the inside, looking out, it's not what you expected. That relationship is not great. Is the person a model? Awesome Doesn't mean it's a successful relationship, doesn't mean anything. It means nothing, quite honestly. It means the person's attractive Awesome, but this person might not have any relationship skills.

Alan Lazaros 46:26

You and your ex were fitness models, kind of you were doing fitness shows.

Kevin Palmieri 46:32

I've done a photo shoot or two and you two were jacked and it looked like you guys had a great relationship.

Alan Lazaros 46:39

Yeah, isn't it interesting to compare you and your ex and the outside looking in, versus you and Taryn now, yeah, that's why you're saying this Is because you've lived the other way.

Kevin Palmieri 46:50

I've been that guy, you've been the guy that from the outside in it was like nice car nice apartment you didn't want to be me, you wanted to have what I had, and you didn't say that back then, because I didn't know, you didn't know, yeah. I didn't really know. I thought like one I do. I think I was a good partner, even when I was struggling. Like I was never. I was never toxic. I was always as supportive as I could be Like I could have been way more supportive, for sure, but I was never toxic. I was never. I was never that.

Alan Lazaros 47:21

But when you, when you went to bed at night, you and your ex weren't happy, basically.

Kevin Palmieri 47:27

For for a while we were, but yeah, no, towards the end we weren't. No, no, yeah, yeah, no, yeah. And I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't happy, I wasn't fulfilled. When I was doing bodybuilding, I would post a picture every day of how good of shape I was in, but I was miserable Mentally. I was miserable mentally, but I just, I don't know. Was I not ready to share it? Did I not think people cared? Like I signed up to this bodybuilding show? Nobody signed me up to do it, so I'm not gonna bitch to you about it. Yeah, what?

Alan Lazaros 48:02

if, for everyone out there watching or listening and with this, what if everything from the outside in actually was different than from the inside out? And what if the more fulfilled and successful you are from the inside out, the less you have to show it? And what if that was true? And I not always, but I would say that's pretty strong rule, that that's what I use. It's really I, I used to. I've been on yachts, I've been in mansions. I, I'm not gonna lie, I look at it different now. I look at it different now.

Kevin Palmieri 48:40

I still like a yacht.

Alan Lazaros 48:42

Yeah, I'm not saying anything's wrong with that. I'm saying there's there's more underneath this iceberg. Yeah, there's one couple I'm thinking of anonymously. They have the, the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cars. They, they, high rise, took three gates to get to their place their marriage isn't happy I know they're not.

Alan Lazaros 49:01

He's wine drunk every night and I just it looks awesome from the outside in it does. But I know that. I know there's no way. There's no way. I know for a fact it's not, and it's important. I know that. I know there's no way, there's no way, I know for a fact it's not. And it's important to know that. I'm not saying not to strive for a mansion, I'm not saying not to strive for your goals and dreams. I'm saying these people that you look up to, if I'm saying nothing else, work on the inside and the outside. That's it. That's it. Work on both. You need both. There are phases where I was totally working on the outside and not the inside, and then, totally on the inside, I went broke. You need both. You need to work on both. You got to you got to.

Kevin Palmieri 49:40

Yeah, if you take nothing else from what I said, we are going to start a fund. So the grizzly bear for next level, live 2026 everyone everyone selling tickets.

Alan Lazaros 49:52

Kevin fights a grizzly bear for a thousand bucks with. Donate to your favorite charity. We love animals.

Kevin Palmieri 49:57

We would never do such a thing I literally, when taryn and I watch a show together or a movie together and there's an animal that comes on screen, I grab the clicker in case I think something's going to happen. We always fast forward, taryn can't have it, can't have it does cannot do it.

Kevin Palmieri 50:11

There's a website for anybody out there. I think the website's called does the dog diecom? And it tells you in all the tv shows and movies whether or not animals get hurt. So send that out to you if you. If you like animals, like we do here over at nlu.

Alan Lazaros 50:24

Yeah, it's tough with the amelia head horses growing up and the war scenes in movies with all the horses.

Kevin Palmieri 50:31

Yeah man, yeah it's tough F that noise, agreed F that noise. Get those animals out of there. Cgi that shit, even though it's terrible, but Avatar.

Alan Lazaros 50:43

None of that was real.

Kevin Palmieri 50:44

Some of it, but most of that wasn't real that movie did great CGI, that shit. Figure it out. Cool man, imagine you're in a horse movie. We need a tall blonde so we can ride him, get him, get him, all right, they're going to ride you. Just go run through that field there and then fall over 50 bucks yeah, 50. I'll do it for you the best we can do is 50.

Alan Lazaros 51:08

I'll do it for you.

Kevin Palmieri 51:09

The best we can do is 18. I'll take it. I'll take 18. I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity. I'm just grateful to be here.

Kevin Palmieri 51:15

All right, next Level Nation we have our live event, virtual Next Level Live 2025. There will be no fighting of bears here or at Next Level Live 2026. Obviously, I'm joking, but it obviously I'm joking, but it's fully virtual. It's going to be from, I believe, 10 am eastern standard time to 4 pm or 4 30 pm eastern standard time, so it's going to be a full day. Alan and I, virtually we're renting a nice little conference room, we're going to be live streaming on zoom and we're going to try to bring our best stuff. We've had the opportunity and the privilege to learn a lot over the last, coming up on eight years, which which has been amazing.

Kevin Palmieri 51:49

But this is a really good opportunity for somebody who you have a family and you can't travel. It just doesn't make sense to travel. You want to consume self-improvement stuff from your pajamas or whatever it is. That's why we're doing it fully virtual. I think it just makes sense. This podcast is global and we have listeners all over the world and it just it's kind of hard to book a flight from europe to boston, massachusetts, for a one-day event like that. Shit gets expensive, so it's gonna be 47, you'll have access to the live stream, it's all gonna be done on zoom, and you will also have access to the replay. So we're gonna record it, we'll package it nicely, and and there'll be a replay for you too, with your ticket if you're listening to this on the day it launched, that means it's Thursday, february 6th, tonight at 5 pm.

Outro

Alan Lazaros 52:39

Register the link will be in the show notes. Totally free monthly meetup, 38th one. That means we've been doing this for three years and two months. This stuff compounds how to uncover, define and live your most important core values. One of the biggest mistakes that I made growing up is I was very, very, very, very, very, very, very clear on my goals. I was not clear on my core values until my mid-20s. That was a huge fucking mistake. Please join us how to uncover, define and live your most important core values and, by the way, they're probably different than they were five years ago. I've changed mine a couple times. My top three core values are legacy, potential, candor, and they have shifted. They've been shifting. So, uh, even if you've done this work before, doing it again will be helpful. Register the link will be in the show notes boom as always.

Kevin Palmieri 53:28

We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every, grateful for each and every one of you. And at NLU, we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow. Keep it Next.

Alan Lazaros 53:36

Level Next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri 53:40

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros 53:46

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri 53:55

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.