Next Level University

Maybe You Shouldn’t Be Courageous Around Certain People (1972)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In this episode of Next Level University, Kevin and Alan discuss the challenges of setting boundaries and saying "no" without guilt. They explore emotional maturity, self-worth, and why people take rejection personally. Through real-life examples, they highlight the power of prioritizing your goals and surrounding yourself with supportive friends. Tune in for insights on confidence, communication, and standing firm in your decisions.

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Show notes:
(2:51) Why vulnerability and courage feel risky
(5:47) Handling rejection when being courageous
(7:25) The balance of humility, courage, and vulnerability
(10:37) Prioritizing personal goals over social obligations
(12:25) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we're giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/3Ec6ad9
(14:57) The difference between courage and recklessness
(18:59) Why do people guilt others into doing things
(21:58) Emotional maturity and respecting boundaries
(23:29) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't want to be pressured to do things I don't want to do. It's hard for me to coexist with people who want me to do something because they want me to do something more than I want to do. That's just weird to me.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't think about much other than did I do all I could? If I did all I could, and I can authentically say that I feel like I can move on. But if I don't feel like I put it all on the court, I know there's something still there.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin.

Alan Lazaros:

Palmieri and I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus, at.

Kevin Palmieri:

NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day, on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,972, I do believe maybe you shouldn't be courageous around certain people. Does Brene have the book? Is it Going First? Does she have the book that is named Going?

Alan Lazaros:

First, maybe I've never heard of it. If so, I think it's her.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think Brene Brown has it. I'm on it. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I think one of the reasons that vulnerability and courage in general are so hard is because it requires somebody to put themselves out there. Go in general are so hard is because it requires somebody to put themselves out there. I go ahead, richie norton, richie norton, I don't this. This is probably not the book I'm thinking about then the book going.

Alan Lazaros:

First find the courage to lead purposely and inspire action. Maybe I mean it showed out so rich talks about courage I don't.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that might just be very maybe luck I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri:

But that's essentially. Yeah, shout out to Richie, because that's exactly what we're talking about. When you hear the word vulnerable, long before I ever knew it had any meaning in the emotional intelligence realm, vulnerable is a place that is easy to be damaged. If you and I are boxing and you have your hands up covering your face, your liver is vulnerable. I will try, I will go for it, because if I hit it, it's gonna, you're gonna go down. It's vulnerable, it's. It's a a place to target if I'm trying to hurt you. What are the most vulnerable places in homes? Windows, probably, unlocked doors. That is a vulnerability when it comes to the emotional arena. It requires somebody to go first and you are literally putting yourself out there to be hurt.

Kevin Palmieri:

Alan and I were talking and we were talking about how, if somebody reaches out to me and says, hey, I really this is, this is a good, a good example. I've had people podcast guests from the past reach out and say, hey, I'm going to be in New England in a couple months. We should meet up and get lunch. It's like, while I would love to do that, I don't. Essentially I don't ever leave the house during the week between the hours of 10 am and 10 am. Ever, from 10 am and beyond during the week, I'm in the house, I don't leave. I appreciate that. I think it would be really cool. Unfortunately that just doesn't fit with my schedule and oftentimes you won't hear anything back after you send that message.

Kevin Palmieri:

I understand why it's easier to tell a white lie or a fib. I don't know if white lie is like, I don't know what that actually means. So if there's any racism in that like, I'm not going to use it just in case because I don't know. I don't know where it came from A fib. I understand why it's easier to just fib, because then the person says, oh, you're not feeling well, I hope you feel better. And then they talk to you again, eventually, again, eventually, and I think that's why being courageous around the wrong people can be detrimental, because it makes you feel like you're a shitty person. Somebody reaches out to you and says hey, kev would love for you to come out to the bar. Man, I haven't seen you in a minute. Seemed like you're doing well, let's tear it up like we used to. Alan, I really appreciate it, brother. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for the compliment. We are doing really well. We've been working really hard. Honestly, man, I don't really roll in those circles anymore.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't really do that shit anymore, and so the reason it's vulnerable is because it opens you up to potential rejection.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think the reason it's vulnerable is because, depending on their level of self-improvement, it hurts them and they're not courageous enough to express that truth to you. So then you just get stonewalled, they just don't answer Yep, and then you feel like shit about yourself, like you did something wrong when you. That's why boundaries are so hard, because you set a boundary and then somebody pushes back on it or they just ignore you or they ghost you completely?

Alan Lazaros:

yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

And then you start to question I mean, was it really worth it for me to set that boundary? I just lost that. I may have just lost that friendship. That's the answer, unfortunately.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, it is. So you have a courageous moment and you express a vulnerable truth, they either don't respond, which feels like rejection. And here's the other thing too. I just connected this If someone doesn't feel valuable enough in their own life and then they ask you, hey, kev, can we go out, can we grab lunch? And then you say no, they feel like they're not valuable enough to get lunch with, yeah, when in reality you just value your goals more, it's not anything personal, but it feels personal. I think that that's it's really hard to think about and talk about, because I feel like that's probably unintentionally how I, how other people, feel when I am saying no to certain things yes, I would say, I would say yes, and I think somebody who has done the work is able to at least practice depersonalizing it.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, that's yeah. I've said this on the podcast many times If you're not ready to deliver a full truth to someone because you're not ready to receive a potential full truth, back lie. I don't care, I'm not going to judge you.

Alan Lazaros:

I never saw the merits in that to this extent. To this extent because I do aspire to be someone who can I have a try at a transformation humility, courage and vulnerability, similar to the fire triangle if you need oxygen, fuel and heat to make fire, I don't think you can make transformation without humility, courage and vulnerability. I really that's a thesis that I have. I don't have a paper on it, I haven't. I don't have decades of research, but I do have at least now three or four years of just coaching people from that lens. Humility is I know I don't know and I know I need to improve and I know that, that I could be better and I know that I'm not that great yet. Courage is I'm going to actually try something new and see how it goes, or I'm going to express this thing that might go horribly wrong, and then vulnerability is sitting in the discomfort after you do it. And relationship talks coaching over the last four years we just got shout out to our new clients. We just got them super excited. What I've come to understand is that the quality of your intimate relationship. I would have the courage to say this right now and I have a lot of experience with this Humility, courage and vulnerability has always been at the root cause of communication, issues of trust, issues of relationship issues. You can almost always I'll say almost always point to one of the partners being a little less courageous and one of the other partners not being very humble because of it. So if Kev never expresses hard truths to me because he's not courageous enough to do it, I might get arrogant without knowing it If he never has the courage to say you know, alan, honestly, man, I podcast every day and I've been working with 67 podcasters. I know you listen to the show a lot lately, but hey, man, I know what I'm doing and I got some humble pie earlier because I've been reviewing the show and I come with all these ideas every time I do and that's part of my job. But it's also Kev's job to say dude, I know, and that's not how it works, and so we drive to five. But if someone is out there and doesn't have the ability to not personalize it and this is something that I'm kind of scared to talk about or share, because I have a lot of people that I've I've shared truth with them that I'll share this anonymously there's someone who wanted to go out to eat recently with Emilia and I and I had to vulnerably share that I haven't even seen Kev since the NLHF event. I don't even hang out with Kevin anymore Like that's my best friend and business partner and so it's not personal.

Alan Lazaros:

I I've been using Michael Phelps as a metaphor. He's won 23 Olympic gold medals and he worked out every day for six years. Based on the interviews that I've researched, I think five or six, I think it was five, maybe six. I think he said five or six, depending on the interview. But I said I'm truly jealous of that process, like I really do want to dial into that level and so it's nothing personal. But I'm not.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm not really at barbecues and I said this to the person. I said if you ever see me out and about with a bunch of friends, like get mad at me. It's not like I'm hanging out with a bunch of people, so it's not personal. I said it's not personal, but in the moment it feels personal. I'm sure it feels personal.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, what do you mean? Am I not valuable enough to get lunch with? I would rather focus on my goals and dreams coaching, training, podcasting and that's what I'm here for. That's who I am, that's who I aspire to be, and it's all this justification when, in reality, all it comes down to is this other person is having trouble not personalizing that, and she did a great job not personalizing it, by the way. And if you're listening, by the way, shout out to you Because, number one, kudos to you for asking, because that's vulnerable as hell.

Alan Lazaros:

That takes a lot of courage to ask hey, I have a proposition for you, and it takes just as much courage to reject it and to set that boundary, and I think that that sucks, dude, I've never enjoyed that. I don't think I. I have several people right now I'm several who haven't answered me. I have at least four or five people that I've sent long I'm talking five minute plus audios to vulnerably expressing something I couldn't attend or couldn't do, or asking a some vulnerable, courageous for sure, and and no responses. I'm talking probably six or seven of them. Would you, if you could go?

Kevin Palmieri:

back. Would you do it different or would you do the same?

Alan Lazaros:

I like knowing that I did all I could. Nlu listener what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Alan Lazaros:

So in my life and I think hopefully this will inspire I don't think about much other than did I do all I could, if I did all I could, much other than did I do all I could, if I did all I could, and I can authentically say that I feel like I can move on, but if I don't feel like I put it all on the court. I know there's something still there. There's a movie called Brave that came out in 2012. We, evolve Ventures and Emilia. They have Evolve Movie Club and in Evolve Movie Club shout out to anyone listening who's in Evolve Movie Club we essentially vote on a movie that we think has great lessons in it and from a mental health frame. In Brave there's these wisps, and for anyone who's seen the movie, this is gonna make perfect sense. For anyone who hasn't, I'm hopefully gonna articulate it. Well, she's in the forest and these little wisps are sort of these metaphorical moments of if you follow your wisps, you're sort of following your path, you're following your calling, you're following your destiny, and I think that every time you're too fearful to share something or too fearful to do something, you're holding yourself back from your potential. Now you got to be careful and you also shouldn't be reckless.

Alan Lazaros:

So I have one client who is sharing a lot on his podcast that I think I said this. I said I'm proud of you, you're tenacious and you're courageous and you're doing it and I'm and I'm proud of you. Just try to stay centered in it, because there are certain things that I wasn't ready to share, that I did share and I regretted it. But I also regret when I didn't share, when I didn't lean into courage too. So I said there's a big difference between courage and recklessness. I think it's reckless to air out everything while you're going through it and then to have it crumble your mental health so you can't even wake up the next day and do your job, metaphorically. But I also think it's also cowardly to not ever share what's on your heart.

Alan Lazaros:

And so if I could go back in time to answer your original question, I would do it differently and I would definitely communicate differently and I would definitely justify less of hey man, I can't come to that because I got this many podcasts and this many, you know, and I work Monday through you know what, man, honestly, it's not aligned for me. I really do value our friendship, but I value my goals and dreams more, and that's taking priority. I want to get married, I want to start a family, and this is not your, your. That graduation party is not a focus for me right now, and I know and I understand if that hurts you, but that's not my intention. I hope you don't personalize this, but if you do, I get it. Good luck, have a great time. And now that I know that they didn't respond because I thought they would respond with courage and vulnerability too, instead of I know that they didn't respond because I thought they would respond with courage and vulnerability too, instead of giving me the big fuck you, which is just stonewalling or whatever, and I I'm not evolved enough to say it doesn't bother me, I think it does. But I also know I'm gonna sleep at night every night, and I'm gonna know I did all I could, and I'm also very grateful that I didn't cave, because maybe this is unique to me and I'll get off the soapbox in a second. But for anyone out there watching or listening, you have goals and dreams and they might not fucking happen, and I don't want to look back on my life and say, wow, I didn't have the courage to not go to that fucking barbecue and I didn't do all I could with all I had. Wow, I didn't have the courage to not go to that fucking barbecue and I didn't do all I could with all I had, and I didn't achieve my dreams because I let some ex-friend of mine bully me into going to something that wasn't aligned. And so I think it takes a lot of courage to chase and Focus on your dreams. I do. I think dream chasing is the hardest thing on planet Earth, way harder than people make it seem, and that's why every film that's so damn inspiring is so inspiring.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm watching the Simone Biles docuseries on Netflix with Emilia right now. She's the number one Olympian on planet Earth in gymnastics and she had a huge meltdown in 2020. And they did a whole dou-series on it and the whole world is shitting on her for quitting and all this stuff. It is hilarious for me to watch these couch potatoes on. There are people on tv saying simone biles, quit.

Alan Lazaros:

It's like this big fat guy, it's like dude, you're like some big fat talking head shitting on this poor girl who's done more in one year than you have in your whole damn life. And I just can't with the haters, dude, I can't. It bothers me so much. And then it comes out that there's this she was molested and all this stuff. And it's this is all public. By the way, I'm not airing out her stuff. This is a Netflix series, but it pisses me off because when you have a dream, people fuck you up and it pisses me off. It bothers me so much and I do. I have a lot of, if nothing else, for anyone out there watching or listening you will get stonewalled, you will be misunderstood, you will get shit on for focusing on your goals over people, because they do take it personally and there's no way around that and it has to drive you. If it doesn't drive you, you're in serious trouble, because goals and dreams are way harder than anyone talks about.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that that's a common thing, Assuming that when you're courageous, the person you're being courageous to has the level of courage that you do. And I don't think that is almost unless you're in like a very growth minded of courage that you do, and I don't think that is almost unless you're in like a very growth-minded relationship. That's awesome, that's what it's all about. But if you're the one who is doing more growing than the other people around you, I don't expect people to have the level of courage you do, Because you've worked the proverbial you not Alan specifically you've worked so hard on getting you, not Alan specifically you've worked so hard on getting the courage. So of course, you're more courageous than the people around you and maybe they don't know how to respond without ego, so they'd rather just respond without anything, which is kind of with ego.

Alan Lazaros:

They feel hurt, so they're either going to hurt you back or not respond.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I guess that's better. I'd rather somebody not respond. Yeah, and I guess that's better. I'd rather somebody not respond then. Well, I don't know.

Alan Lazaros:

yeah, I'd rather somebody not respond and send me all ego yeah, well, let me ask you in truth, because I know we got to jump here in a sec, but let me ask you you're someone who has worked through not being offended, that I can't be, you know, know, available, I don't care, I guess. How have you done that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't know if it ever well, maybe it did in the beginning, I don't know. I don't care. I want what's best for you. I don't want what's best for I do want what's best for me, but not Okay.

Alan Lazaros:

But why is that not more common? Because I'm that way too right. I mean, it sounds so easy for us to say it's like. I know this is going to sound really arrogant. I don't think I've ever been offended when someone didn't want to hang out with me Ever. Kev have you ever seen me offended because you couldn't hang out.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, no.

Alan Lazaros:

I would never do that. I want you to do you, because that's all I've ever wanted, is for someone to just say go, do you, man.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I think that's why you give what you want, and give what you want to receive.

Alan Lazaros:

I did guilt you once. That's my bad.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, you did, guilt me once.

Alan Lazaros:

You're not going to stick around and have pizza.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm so sorry. I'll never live it down, dude, it's all good.

Alan Lazaros:

That's not really, but I appreciate it no-transcript.

Kevin Palmieri:

Very unique in admitting that I think a lot of people aspire more to that. Okay, interesting. Yeah 100. Nobody likes to be guilted into doing shit nobody wants to be guilted into then why do they guilt people? I mean, granted, I did once well, yeah, I for me, I'm talking to people who are getting guilted, as people are guilting people because they know it'll work. It worked, didn't it? Yeah, yeah, it did. I think you stick around. I did stick around. That's even worse.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, well, I do, I get it. I was out of alignment. I didn't want to be there with those people without you and I just wanted to hang out with you. But that just wanted to hang out with you. But that's the wrong approach, right? I? I think, for anyone out there there. Why not olive branch? If you just become more valuable, people will want to be around you so you don't have to guilt anyone.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's just more I know it sounds easy, yeah, but you still get guilted you. Then you get guilted for not going what's one or the other? Well, we're gonna do.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm grateful that that person wants to. I'm grateful that person wants to get lunch, of course I really am. But I also I'm not going to go get lunch. I don't want to. It's not personal.

Kevin Palmieri:

How about this for an ending? I'm super grateful that somebody out there cares enough and finds enough value in me that they want to get lunch with me. I'm even more grateful when they respond positively when I tell them I'm grateful but cannot attend. Yeah, that, that's the type of people you want to be around.

Alan Lazaros:

This all comes down to emotional maturity, in my opinion, and this person handled it really well. Yes, yes, yes, and I've had a lot of people in my past who didn't yes and, I think, emotionally immature people I will.

Alan Lazaros:

I will have the bold and courage to say this if someone is out there who's emotionally immature. When we were kids, we were all just these immature toddlers we were. We would guilt each other. And what do you mean? You can't come over and sleep. Oh, you're not gonna sleep over, you're not gonna watch the movie. So I get it, but there's an expiration date on that shit. It's time to grow up and I don't mean to be a dick, but I also need to be honest. When you become an adult, you really do need to outgrow some of that shit if you want to have a fulfilling life. And if you're guilting your way to try to get people to spend time with you, I mean that's a dangerous road to a big lack of fulfillment and it's a good way to lose your friends, especially the valuable ones it's a dangerous path to a very lonely life eventually, when the people around you really lean into self-worth and self-belief for sure.

Kevin Palmieri:

Okay, next elimination next level live april 5th 2025, 10 am to 5 pm eastern time. It is totally virtual, alan and I will be live streaming from zoom. We're going to bring the best stuff we have. There's going going to be breakout sessions, all of that happy jazz. It's going to be amazing. So I'll have the link in the show notes for that. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and NLU. We do not have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros:

Stay Next Level, next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow. Thank you.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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