Next Level University

Your Growth Isn’t JUST About YOU (1981)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In today’s episode of Next Level University, Kevin and Alan uncover the hidden impact of self-improvement on confidence, success, and relationships. From an eye-opening escape room lesson to real talk on achievement, self-worth, and why some people struggle to celebrate others, this episode gets to the heart of what it means to grow.

Learn more about:
Next Level Live 2025: Saturday, April 5th, 2024 (10:00 am to 4:00 pm EST)  - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:54) Lessons from an escape room experience
(5:38) The unseen benefits of self-improvement
(8:27) The power of belief in achievement
(13:01) Why do people value results over process
(15:53) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(20:41) How success can make others feel inadequate
(24:25) The impact of self-belief on relationships
(26:12) Growth affects everyone you meet
(28:42) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

I've also been on other shows with people who are insecure and their insecurity comes across in different ways, in maybe weird ways, and they're trying to figure it out. I've been there, I've been insecure interviewing somebody and it's a different version of me than I actually wanted it to be. It's like shit that went off the rails a little bit. My bad, my bad. I think that's why I have empathy empathy because I've been on both sides I think me succeeding making other people feel less.

Alan Lazaros:

That might be my least favorite part of achievement. I love achievement, maybe more than anyone I know. I adore it. I'm an achiever. I feel like achievement is without without achievement. There goes our computers, there goes the global economy, there goes TVs those don't exist. No electricity, like all of those were achievements.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. Welcome to.

Kevin Palmieri:

Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1981, your growth isn't just about you Learning and reading and evolving and growing and believing in yourself more and working on your self-worth and all that stuff. Getting outside of your comfort zones, all that stuff is really, really challenging, and I think an extra layer of necessity is understanding that you're not doing it just for you, and in some cases, maybe you use that necessity to understand that you're doing more for other people than you're doing for yourself, and here's the reason why.

Kevin Palmieri:

So, as I mentioned in yesterday's episode, or the day before for Valentine's Day, taryn and I went to an escape room. It was last night and it was awesome. It was. We had such a blast 68 buckaroos. It was 68 buckaroos, 34 bucks a person. Well worth it, though it was well worth it. When we first got there, it was like dead and there was nobody there and I was like interesting, but they have 4.9 stars.

Alan Lazaros:

You don't know why no one was there. Man, that's not a common Valentine's Day thing.

Kevin Palmieri:

That, but also they segment it very well, so it's like offset and they do it very well. So it's like offset and they do it very well because the person there's a person watching you in the room and if you need clues you can raise your hand at the camera and then they hit a button and the TV gives you clues. So you're kind of it was really cool, a really cool experience. But we finished with 24 seconds left and I think we used like five phone of friends and when the guy came in after Brian, I was like hey, level with me, man, how did we do compared to most folks? So you guys are right on par for people who have only done it once or twice, like, all right, cool, you say that to everybody, though you lying to me.

Alan Lazaros:

Don't they usually have a scoreboard, some sort of a this room? The record is this. The average is this I didn't see any of that.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's probably good, you got to gamify people like that People look. 4.9 stars with 400 reviews. People like it.

Alan Lazaros:

No, I know, I'm just saying the one we did way back, my ex-girlfriend and I. They gave you those stats in advance, so you had something to strive for. So that you leave wildly disappointed in yourself.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, that was kind of that was the conversation Tyron and I had. We're like do we want hints or do we want to lose? We want to win, let's get as many hints as we need, but let's work. We didn't get our first hint until we were like 20 minutes in, I think I was like all right.

Kevin Palmieri:

But so this was my experience. There's a good lesson about pride in there, 100%. Well, that's why I asked her. She said are you going to be disappointed if we don't win? I was like, eh, maybe I don't know. I don't know, it's a great question. Here's the lesson. This is the biggest lesson for me. We got to the. We got to the first. I don't want to give anything away Again. The odds of anybody going to this very specific place are almost zero. But I respect this business and they're great people. But the first thing, like the first game within this game, I never would have got it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I never would have got it. Not a freaking chance. And then when you accomplish that, the hint it gave I'd be dead. It was a Wild West room 1890. I'd still be in 1890 right now. Now I would have to phone a friend and call alan and be like, hey man, I'm in the wild west, I have. I have my one call with this, this miracle piece of technology not gonna be able to make it into the studio today. I'm stuck in the 1800s best of luck, brother.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'll see you when I see you but we got to the end and we were walking down the stairs to take a picture which I'll post on social at some point and I said to Taryn I said you are way better at that than I am Like you crushed it. You did 75% of the work and I had this moment where I the only reason I think I'm really, I was really able to actually give, that is because of all the work I've done to actually give. That is because of all the work I've done, all the work I've done on me and my self-belief and my self-worth and trying to balance ego and humility and all that. And I think that right, there is a really good example of one of the huge benefits of self-improvement that just almost seems invisible. She did a really good job and I think the difference between maybe again, not to hype myself up but maybe me and somebody who hasn't done the work is if somebody else was insecure about that, that might have spoiled their mood and that might have spoiled the whole date. And I was super. It was like we were high five and I was like, babe, you're like really good at this, you're crushing it. I'd be dead. I'd be riding horses around doing gunfights. I just think that's one of the benefits of the work that almost nobody talks about.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's really hard to give away something that you don't have within yourself, especially sustainably. I mean, you can kind of do it for a short period of time. But I think in my past I was that guy who I had a girlfriend who wanted to move across the country and chase her dreams and I was so insecure I couldn't support it. I couldn't support it. There's almost nothing I wouldn't support Taranin. I can't imagine anything that I wouldn't support her in Because I'm not afraid, I'm not insecure about it, and I just think there's something to that.

Kevin Palmieri:

And that's the beauty of the work. You're going to get so many benefits. You're going to get so many benefits, but the people around you are going to get some benefits too. If you have children, if you have a partner, if you have a spouse, whatever it is your friends, those are the people that are going to get as many benefits as you are.

Kevin Palmieri:

And then it becomes a deeper question of, well, do those people deserve the benefits? And that's a completely different episode. But that was a really cool lesson for me and it was a really good reminder of yeah, you know, some days this sucks, and looking in these mirrors and all this stuff kind of blows it does. But moments like that where you catch yourself like I don't know, 10 years ago would I've had the same reaction? Probably not. No, I probably would have been insecure about my intelligence. Or like I'm supposed to be the man, I'm supposed to be the one to get us out of the rooms, like I don't know how much of that is just downloaded from mainstream and all that so yeah, that was my.

Alan Lazaros:

That was my thought for today's episode when you were talking, what came up for me is this idea of shame. And so if, if, taryn is better than Kevin at escape rooms? What does that mean about Kevin?

Kevin Palmieri:

He's a loser, a big fucking loser.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, so let's say that that's his inner narrative. It's not.

Kevin Palmieri:

Everybody was thinking it, so I figured I'd just throw it out there.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, here's the deal. If you actually thought that, then you probably wouldn't be able to celebrate her 100%, which is a really shitty thing, in my opinion. I aspire to live in a world where everybody can celebrate everybody for their greatness. I think that's really something that I think as a kid. I was so naive. I thought achievement was awesome and it's so interesting too. When you're a kid and you win the soccer game or you win the championship and you bring home a trophy and you have awards on your background and it's like celebrated, and then, as an adult, people are just like shut the fuck up man.

Alan Lazaros:

Like congratulations, right, you got the President's Award. You get straight A's in high school and it's why isn't that awesome? On what planet would that not be awesome to get straight A's in high school? It's like the coolest fucking thing ever but, again, I, love achievement.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say my definition of cool and your definition of cool are two slightly different things.

Alan Lazaros:

Why isn't it cool?

Kevin Palmieri:

Why isn't it cool? Because it doesn't align with the core values of the vast majority of people. So you'll kind of always be an outsider in most rooms. That's one piece. Second piece is have they just?

Alan Lazaros:

convinced themselves that being smart doesn't matter.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, I just think it's. I just think it's a core, it's like a core value thing. You know, I think the other piece is like oh yeah, I was the you know not that big of a deal, but I was the captain of the football team in high school. It's like, dude, that was 20 years ago, you need to get a fucking life.

Alan Lazaros:

You know what I mean. Like that was 20 years ago.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is. I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I think maybe some people think of it that way. If you were working at NASA, like launching shuttles into space, I think people would think it was cool, you know.

Alan Lazaros:

Working at NASA is cool, but getting straight A's in high school, which is required to work at NASA, isn't cool.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's the process versus the result. I think the process. Nobody really cares that much about the process. They care about the result. That's why so many people, unfortunately, aren't successful at their endeavors, because they love the results and then they realize that the process is like 99% of it. It's like oh, this sucks, oh this sucks. Wait, I have to do this. For how long? About a decade? Fuck that. No, no, I won't, I won't do it. That's why we were talking about the 50-year thing. It's like, brother, brother, 50 years, that is my life plus half almost. I can't imagine doing, even I can't imagine doing something for that long. I'm going to do this for as long as humanly possible. So I'm not saying that, but it's just a long process.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, I was on with a new client yesterday and I pull up a little asset. It's a square. Upper left is inputs, okay. Upper right is outputs. Those are the results, okay. So the outputs are the results, the inputs are the habits and tasks. The process Inputs is the process Outputs of the results. The inputs are the habits and tasks. The process Inputs is the process, outputs the results. Then the bottom right of the square is measure. You measure the output and then the bottom left of the square is you adjust accordingly. So you do a thing and then you get an output. You get a result and then you measure the result and then you adjust your input based on whether or not the measurement is working or not. It's called systems thinking.

Alan Lazaros:

The problem, I think and I'm going to bring this back to the original point of the episode as well point of the episode as well I think the problem is the results that we want in life are actually a byproduct of a different result. Let me give you an example. So the result that I wanted was straight A's in high school to get the president's award, okay. The byproduct of getting straight A's in high school is you get to get into whatever college you want within reason. I got into an Ivy League school Tufts. Okay. Why does that matter? Well, if you get into an Ivy League school, you have more opportunities to get whatever job you want within reason Not whatever job, but you know what I'm saying.

Alan Lazaros:

You have a higher probability of getting the job you want, okay, well, why does that matter? Well, now you have choices. If you can work wherever you want to work, now you can design your own life. Whereas if you decide, okay, well, I don't really care about straight A's. Well, I guess I don't really care about going to college. Well, I guess I don't really care about where I work Well, about going to college. Well, I guess I don't really care about where I work.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, I guess I don't really care well now you're fucked because now you can't choose what you want to do with your life. Start a podcast, you can start a podcast, but like and again, I know how arrogant this will seem, but I don't really I'm working hard on having the courage to care about that a little bit less because I need to be myself. I could probably work at nat. I'm certain I could work at NASA if I really wanted to. I had an interview at SpaceX actually that I canceled for family reasons. Isn't that awesome to have opportunities and to be able to have that choice?

Kevin Palmieri:

Because yeah, yeah, but it's just the process.

Alan Lazaros:

It's just the so it's not worth it for people. Yeah, it's just not worth it or it doesn't seem realistic.

Kevin Palmieri:

I told alan today I weighed in at 179.9. I'm down 10 pounds from where I started. Doesn't look like it at all either. It's like it'll cross a chasm where I sure hope so I've been waking up. It always does wish. There's always like a day where you it's like ooh, I sure hope so I've been waking up. It always does Wishing on a penny.

Alan Lazaros:

There's always like a day where you it's like an orchid that dies and blooms and dies on the same day. In any cut or bulk, all of a sudden there's a line of demarcation where, oh my God, am I jacked? And then after that you feel frail forever.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's a you thing. I don't feel frail, I'm used to that. It's different, it's different. When I cross a chasm when it comes to a bulk. It's like now we're fat.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah that, cool, cool, cool yeah. So I have the opposite.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm on my way.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm on my way. Hello, hello, hello. Nlu listener. Thank you, as just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I'll be honest, it sucks, but in 10 pounds, when I can take my shirt off and have a six-pack it would be worth it. It would be cool.

Alan Lazaros:

But what will that actually get you? Because that's the point I'm trying to make is you don't want a six-pack.

Kevin Palmieri:

You want what a six-pack will get you, which is a feeling You'll feel good about yourself, you'll feel cool you'll have more social status, you'll have more influence well, not it, for I think, for me, I think it's that, it's all that I feel comfortable in your own skin this is the brand next level my word for this.

Kevin Palmieri:

My word for this year was elite. I have not been a elite physical performer, so I want to do. I want to do better with that, that's one for sure. The other thing is I, taryn, was going through my phone last night because we took a picture at the escape room and she pulled up a picture of me. It's like a throwback picture and she goes this year, is this your tinder picture? You out there, you out there fishing for women. I said no, I I screenshotted that because that's like what I aspire to, like. I'm really trying to get back to that. I want to. I'm 35. I kind of want to turn back the clock on, like, yeah, as you get older it gets harder. I do agree, I do think that's fundamentally true, but I don't think there's any reason I can't look like I did when I was 28 or 29. I'm not going to look like bodybuilding Kev, because I'm not willing to do that. But I think if I dial it in I can, I can get back pretty close to where I was.

Alan Lazaros:

So what you really want underneath all of that is to prove to yourself that you can do this, and that you can reach a new level and I think that, okay, what comes with, let's say, you get in the best shape of your life it's not the six pack that matters. What matters is you now are the type of man who feels worthy of, and capable of being elite. And I think that, to bring this back to the original point of the episode, if you are elite, you'll be able to compliment everyone else in shape. You'll have the confidence to give credit where it's due, because when you are abundant inside, you're able to give so much. You can give so much. I don't have to.

Alan Lazaros:

Oh well, kev's getting in good shape, so uh oh, I feel fucking insecure on the mic with him, like I just I do have empathy, but I I struggle a lot with this. Kevin. Winning means I'm losing. I have a really fucking hard time with that. It's not true. Like you. Succeeding doesn't make me any less, but it might make you feel less, not you, the collective view.

Kevin Palmieri:

I have a lot of empathy. I mean, I understand. I understand when you, when you don't have. That's the point of this episode. If you're somebody who struggles with self-belief, it might be really hard to congratulate someone on their belief that they have in themselves, because it highlights what you desire but might not have yet I think me succeeding making other people feel less.

Alan Lazaros:

That might be my least favorite part of achievement. I love achievement, maybe more than anyone I know. I adore it. I'm an achiever. I feel like achievement is without achievement. There goes our computers, there goes the global economy there goes.

Alan Lazaros:

Tvs those don't exist. No electricity like all of those were achievements. I'm. Your iphone that you love every day was an achievement. That was someone else's achievement, and and everything we love in life is the byproduct of someone having the belief to achieve something great. And so my least favorite part about achievement for any achievers out there, you're all dream chasers. You want to achieve your goals and dreams. I don't think it's. I now know that it's impossible to achieve your goals and dreams without making some people feel less than and it's not you that makes them feel less than it's. Somehow you are a spotlight shining down on their inadequacies or their lack of belief or their lack of achievement or whatever it is, and I hate that a lot. I really wish. How can you inspire someone without achieving?

Kevin Palmieri:

I mean, think about it. I don't know if you can, but you've been saying what inspires some people will repel others. I think belief is the reason. I was on a podcast yesterday with someone who you and I I was on his show five years ago, my man, josh. Josh, just a good dude, yeah, huge fan.

Alan Lazaros:

And he said I got to, I do too.

Kevin Palmieri:

It doesn't great, great dude. And before we went in the interview he said I gotta, I gotta give you your, your flowers, man, like you guys are just just still going. I was like, yeah, man, just trying to get a little better every day, nothing too crazy, just trying to get a little bit better every day. No, insecurity, no, your success takes away from mine.

Alan Lazaros:

But so in order to give you that, he has to be abundant inside. Yeah, dude's got a lot of belief. Good looking, dude Confident. Oh yeah, for sure, jacked Stuff, but Good looking dude, confident, jacked.

Kevin Palmieri:

But again, even that, even me saying all those things, doesn't mean he actually has belief. I was jacked in a really good shape yeah yeah, it comes across in the way that he handles himself right. But I've also been on other shows with people who are insecure and their insecurity comes across in different ways, in maybe weird ways, and they're trying to figure it out. I've been there.

Kevin Palmieri:

I've been insecure interviewing somebody and it's a different version of me than I actually wanted it to be. It's like shit that went off the rails a little bit. My bad, my bad. I think that's why I have empathy, because I've been on both sides, you know, I think the difference, what's the difference between empathy and sympathy? Like sympathy, I think it's like you feel bad for someone. Empathy, you put yourself in their shoes.

Alan Lazaros:

When you aren't. Emilia was crushing a workout recently and she was really insecure about how far ahead she was than me. She was leading, I was struggling and I am doing more than I've ever done in terms of weight with freak, the, the frequency jesus the frequency, intensity, density and duration of my lifts lately have been 45 minutes of just pure mayhem.

Alan Lazaros:

And she saw that I was struggling and she was crushing it and she was ahead of me. So she was moving ahead of me and she got insecure about it and I said, sweetheart, no, if anything, number one, the weights don't get hurt. So I'm taking out all my stuff on these weights, so don't internalize that she's like. Well, I need reassurance because whenever I in the past, whenever I was better than people at sports, I would usually it would hurt my relationships. And I could see that. I said, sweetheart, that will never happen with me. I've, I want you to be better than me. That would inspire and motivate me. I I'm like pumped when you're better than me. That motivates me. You don't have to worry about that shit with me. If anything, I'm annoyed that you're interrupting me. Focus the fuck up. You know like get after it. What are we doing?

Alan Lazaros:

here, fuck up. You know like get after it. What are we doing here? Right? So? But she's not used to that, because in the past when she played soccer, she was really good and whenever she was significantly better than other people, cause she gets. I've never met someone who gets better at things quicker than Emilia Smith. They would get really catty or whatever, and it's unfortunate, because my question for you is if you don't have self-belief and you can't give credit where it's due let's say there was a version of Kev that couldn't give Taryn that in the escape room, would you have shame around that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't think I would have the awareness to no, so you wouldn't consciously have shame. I'd feel bad, bad. I would feel bad about me, probably, and it would manifest in ways and my relationship would not succeed. Most likely tyron would not be treated as well, she wouldn't be as supported, she wouldn't be as lifted, she wouldn't. I wouldn't be nearly as good of a partner. I'm certain of that.

Alan Lazaros:

I couldn't, how could I? In conscious couples, when people say they want a better relationship, it always starts with your. How could I? Unconditional love and all that kind of stuff. So shame is a deeply painful emotion that arises from the perception of having done something wrong, dishonorable or socially unacceptable. It would be dishonorable for Kev to not give Taryn credit there. It would and and honestly I'm not convinced that you shouldn't be ashamed of that. I I don't. I wouldn't shame you because I don't think shame-based anything is good. I think shame-based stuff is actually part of the biggest problem in the world, honestly, that's why I can't stand bullies, but I'm not convinced that you shouldn't feel bad about that. Like, if you were to not give her that, I would consider you a worse partner, for sure.

Kevin Palmieri:

Same, same, but I don't know if I would if I didn't have the awareness. I didn't think I was a bad partner when I stopped my ex-girlfriend from wanting to move across the country.

Alan Lazaros:

I had reasons.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think I probably should have communicated. I probably should have said look, I just got my dream job. Like a couple years ago, I thought I was going to be a wild fucking failure. I'm not ready to pack up and move across the country on a whim. If that's your thing and if that's your journey and that's what you're supposed to do, then, unfortunately, I think you're probably going to be better off without me and we're probably going to have to go our separate ways.

Alan Lazaros:

That's the humility, courage and vulnerability. But at the time, I need you. Isn't that interesting how you, I need you, you're my everything.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, exactly, so you unconsciously yeah, you're my everything, so much where it's like I'd rather you have nothing without me, just not conscious. I wasn't trying to be that, I wasn't trying to be toxic, it wasn't that. It was just like I can't imagine losing you. I can't imagine losing you and then life being good again. It was that, you know.

Alan Lazaros:

It was that.

Kevin Palmieri:

It was that I know we got to pop because book club A little Saturday AM recording for Alan and Kev. Today Book clubs in three minutes.

Alan Lazaros:

If you want to be a great partner and a great person, you're going to have to cultivate your own self-belief and your own abundance. Yeah, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to. You can't give away what you don't have like. If you don't love yourself, you can't be pumped for kev. Yeah, you really do have to.

Alan Lazaros:

I used to say people always say, well, treat others how you want to be treated. And I always said no, treat others better than you want to be treated. But that's a dangerous game. It turns out in hindsight because basically I surrounded myself with people that I treated them better than they treated me. And Emilia's illuminated a lot of that for me. She's like Alan there's very few people who are giving as much as you are in your life and you need to kind of realize that Because they're not capable of giving the same amount that you're capable of giving, because you've cultivated a lot more within yourself than they have. And she's doing the inner work and all this kind of stuff. So but that's one thing that I don't think people you can't see. You can't see how much if I'm giving to kev it's because I have so much in here to give. I'm not. If I was scarce, I would have to go in a bubble and resource myself. I couldn't give to you or to take or take from somebody else.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, that's a whole, that's yeah. So be careful of the. You know feeders and bleeders. Be careful of the bleeders, because they're going to take from you without even knowing they're doing that and then blame you for it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I mean holy shit, right unfortunately, if you want to be a better partner, be be a better person. They're connected.

Alan Lazaros:

Become a better person.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah yeah, if you want to become a better partner, become a better person, because that's it's your skills, your competencies, it's your emotional understanding, it's all of that stuff. Right, that is it at the end of the day. So a little extra necessity for all of us. If you're getting the February blues, because growth is hard, it's not just about you and I'm not saying you think it is but it will also carry on and be a domino effect for essentially every person you ever come in contact with. I know that's a little heavy, but I think that's how it is. All right, cool, as always. We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros:

Keep it Next Level.

Kevin Palmieri:

Next Level Nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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