Next Level University

The More You Do It, The More Clear You Get (1986)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Chasing impossible dreams turns challenges into opportunities. In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros share personal stories of overcoming fear and setting bold goals. They discuss how setbacks spark growth, the balance between avoiding losses and chasing wins, and how financial struggles can ignite motivation. With practical tips like goal-tracking, they remind us that every small win adds up, and trusting the process is key.

Learn more about:
Next Level Live 2025: Saturday, April 5th, 2024 (10:00 am to 4:00 pm EST)  - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume
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Next Level U Book Club - https://bit.ly/3BQBYDr
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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:26) Defining a Dream Chaser
(7:25) Overcoming fear and self-doubt
(12:43) Reflecting on humble beginnings
(20:07) Building confidence & persistence
(26:10) Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:  https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(28:12) Setting achievable goals
(35:05) Preparing for live events
(41:18) Debunking standard advice
(48:29) Relationships, fulfillment & final thoughts
(50:08) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Alan Lazaros:

The truth is is when you are aiming at something that most people think is impossible, of course you're going to stumble upon the principles that get you there. Basically, the world becomes your library. Ten years ago, I decided to shoot for something that's never been done. Then I reoriented my entire mind, body, heart and soul to the world became my library. To find out how to do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

When you and I are getting ready to record, there's zero part of me that's nervous, worried. I'm not worried about anything, but when we do speeches, I am. I've only done however many in-person speeches, but here's the thing it took 150 podcast episodes before I got confident as a podcaster. It might only take a third of that for live events because I already have some of the attributes built up. Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus, at.

Kevin Palmieri:

NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. Welcome to Next.

Kevin Palmieri:

Level University Next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today's weird and strange because I don't know the title of the episode yet because Alan and I were thinking that I did an interview of Alan recently and we talked about productivity and he said I will interview you on something today. And what does that really mean? It's not really an interview. I guess it's just like a more directed conversation based on what somebody wants to hear from the other person.

Alan Lazaros:

No, it's going to be an interview. Yeah, but it's different. I told you before we hit record. I said I'm going to come at you on this one.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, you did.

Alan Lazaros:

And you said do whatever you want. I said bring it, bring the heat.

Kevin Palmieri:

You think I'm nervous. I'm not nervous. You think I'm losing sleep. I'm not losing sleep.

Alan Lazaros:

Not over you. Yeah, I'm ready. All right, it was actually really funny because before this we were trying to think about because Kev interviewed me about productivity, and I adore it. I think it was of value. I hope you all agree. If you haven't listened to that episode, you're not missing much.

Alan Lazaros:

No it is really a good one, and I was thinking to myself myself what do I want to interview kev about? This show? Next level you pun intended is about helping people achieve their goals and dreams. That's what it's about. You're on the growth journey with us. We're trying to live our dream life. We're trying to build our life and ourselves. And self-improvement, holistic self-improvement in your pocket health, wealth, life, wealth, life and love and it's heart-driven, but no BS. Holistic self-improvement for dream chasers. That's our 10-word description of this podcast. So shout out to all of you out there viewing or listening to this Dream chasers. Here we go. First question Kev when did you officially consider yourself a dream chaser? When did you officially consider yourself a dream chaser?

Kevin Palmieri:

When did I officially consider myself a dream chaser?

Kevin Palmieri:

I still don't, probably in 2018. When I left my job to do this Before I wasn't embarrassed about it. Before I didn't, I wasn't embarrassed about it. I just wasn't as pumped as I am today because I knew there there was there was potentially some negativity associated with being a dream chaser. So I would say, no, that's a lie. That's a lie I. So I moved from New Hampshire to Worcester, massachusetts. I lived with Matt. That's when I felt like a dream chaser. He was rent. We were renovating the upstairs and the downstairs. He was doing his thing. I was helping him with his dreams. I was going to Allen's. We were podcasting. So I would say, like when you and I really started focusing on the podcast, that's when I would say I identified as a dream chaser.

Alan Lazaros:

What was the scariest part of identifying as a dream chaser, Not just inside yourself? Well, so first question is when did you identify inside? And then when did you kind of go public with that identity? I think.

Kevin Palmieri:

I, when I started the podcast, I internally did Like this is something. This is different. I'm going to post it on social media. People are gonna think it's weird as hell. What about the people I asked to come on?

Alan Lazaros:

so I think that was probably when I internally self-identified and then when you say people, who, who do you mean?

Kevin Palmieri:

people are gonna think it's weird everyone everyone that, everyone that I knew when I was younger, everyone that I went to high school with all of my kind not close circle of friends, but anybody on, like the second or third what's the word I'm looking for Ring of my friends, I didn't know. Or if I meet somebody new, what is that going to be like? Or if I meet somebody new, what is that going to be like? When I start dating, when I'm trying to date, what's that going to be like? There was just a million fears around that, and even when I had been doing it for a couple years, there was a lot of people that didn't understand.

Alan Lazaros:

It's so weird how achieving your dreams is seen socially as the coolest thing ever. You picture someone winning an Academy Award or an Olympic gold medal, or winning a Super Bowl or whatever it is, and it's you know. Believe in yourself, believe in yourself. I watched Russell Crowe's speech when he won the Academy Award for Gladiator in 2001? 2005?, I don't know. It was in the early 2000s and he said, for someone who I think he was born in Australia, someone who never thought this could be possible, for someone like me, starting from where I started, you know, never stopped believing Very inspirational, very good. I think that's great.

Alan Lazaros:

However, there is only one Academy Award for Best Actor every year and there's hundreds of thousands of people who aspire to be an actor or actress. So my question for you I've said this a lot people are playing not to lose more than they're playing to win, myself included. I, in hindsight, was playing not to lose people, not to lose relationships, and my fear of losing relationships held me back from focusing on my goals more and in hindsight, it's very clear that that was never going to work If I tried to hang on to all my relationships from back then. There's no freaking way you and I could be where we are today. What were you playing not to lose to?

Kevin Palmieri:

lose Probably perception. I think that's one of the reasons I was so afraid of. I mean, failure for me was twofold it was the actual failing of something and looking like looking like an idiot from an external perspective, but also feeling like shit. It was a mixture of those two things. Okay, well, if I fail in front of people, they're going to look at me differently and they're going to know.

Kevin Palmieri:

I won't have the same influence. I won't have the same credibility. People won't like me as much, They'll just look at me differently. It's like if they look at me differently, will they look at everything I've ever done differently.

Alan Lazaros:

And why would that matter?

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it would just change their perception of me and it might affect the relationship. I think, ultimately, my fear was I'd I'd get left behind. That more than anything. I don't, yeah, I don't again. I know I'm weird when it comes to relationships. I don't I miss people. I'm weird when it comes to relationships. I don't I miss people and I think about people all the time. I was thinking of somebody recently that used to be a really good friend of mine, that I've talked about before, but it just I don't know, it wasn't, it was never going to change and I just didn't want to delude myself into thinking it was. So I think my fear was people would just look at me differently. Maybe they wouldn't respect me, maybe they wouldn't believe in me, maybe they wouldn't be proud of me. That's a big one for me. I like when people are proud of me. That feels good.

Alan Lazaros:

Of all the people I coach, I do now have a pretty deep belief that everyone's playing not to lose more than they're playing to win, and I think that your suicidal ideation in your mid-20s and my car accident my mid-20s helped us play to win more than playing not to lose I would say that's that's fair, because for me it's nothing really jumps off the page.

Kevin Palmieri:

It was I was playing not to lose this dream. That's literally what I was thinking I when we first started this and I left my job and then I went broke. It was literally I have to find a way to make enough money to get to the end of the day. And then it was I need to find a way to make enough money to get to the end of the week and get to the end of the next week, find a way to pay the bills this month. My biggest fear was that. What is it now?

Alan Lazaros:

My biggest fear no, it was get through the day, then get through the week, then get through the month. What is it now?

Kevin Palmieri:

I would say from an effort perspective, it's essentially the same. From an effort perspective, it literally is like just get through today and then when you do that seven times in a row, you've gotten through the week. That. And then I just now it's I have a lot of very small goals that are kind of spaced out, so it's just get closer to that Move.

Kevin Palmieri:

I wrote this in my, my dreamliner today. Today was a relatively uneventful day. Almost nothing happened, nothing to write home about, almost nothing measurable happened. My goal today was to move the rocks, that move the rocks, that move the rocks that get me to the thing. That was it. That was what I was trying to do today. So that that's really, that's the big thing. So that that's really that's the big thing. And just try, yeah, just try to get a little better. It's not really again. We have money in the bank and we have a quote, unquote successful business. So it's, the scarcity is just way different than it used to be For me. So it's not like that anymore. I mean, those were fucking brutal times. It was absolutely terrible, just fucking terrible. It's just terrible. And that's why I have so much empathy for somebody who, when they start something they get, like that wave of hopelessness.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's like this is not going to work, or how am I going to be able to make this work? I understand, I remember that. I remember what it was like playing credit card roulette, Literally, like which of these will work, Like which one of these. So Taryn and I, I think the first time we went up to Vermont Her family has a house in Vermont, A cabin. I think it was in 2019. I think, no, it was 2020.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I remember I was sitting on the picnic table up there looking at my bank account and I think I had like $15 in my bank account and I was like how the fuck am I going to get through this week with Taryn Like I'm going to pay for stuff, I want to pay for stuff. How am I going to get through this week with Taryn Like I'm going to, I'm going to pay for, I want to pay for stuff. How am I going to do that? And I remember we had one client at the time and I was editing his videos. There was no wifi, so I was editing his videos, trying to do it on my, my hotspot, on my phone. It was brutal, it was just brutal. And I remember we we went up this year. I was sitting on the picnic table and it was like wow, so much, I have a beautiful car and I'm married and we're going to cross 2,000 episodes. It was soonish. At this point, you know that we just had the best year we've ever had in business.

Alan Lazaros:

It was just A little more than $15 in the bank account.

Kevin Palmieri:

A little more than yeah, yeah, but it was just very humbling. It was a very good reminder, but it's. That's the thing that sucks is people say like Because I really want to say this quote, but I know it's bullshit the next five years are going to happen anyway, so you might as well do something constructive with it. Fucking going to happen anyway, so you might as well do something constructive with it. Fucking easier said than done. Yeah, no, thanks, kev. Easy for you to say when you're kind of on the other side.

Kevin Palmieri:

I know, I know, I know, but if I didn't do the thing for the five years, I wouldn't be. So I don't know. That's the. That's the thing that's really hard is like, if you're, you know, if you're walking through fire, keep going. I understand, I understand what it sounds like. I understand what it's supposed to feel like. I understand what it's supposed to mean. I don't know if it helps in the moment. Honestly, what does help?

Kevin Palmieri:

Would you regret stopping? What would you regret more? Would you regret stopping or would you regret continuing the pursuit of something that seems wildly unlikely? That's up to you. That's up to you, I would rather. I would rather continue the pursuit of something that seems wildly unlikely Now, knowing that I'm going to get way further than I would have if I just pick something super certain and the lessons that have come with it. So, yeah, that you. It's up to you to decide. What regret do you want to have more potentially, do you want to have the what if? I never really wanted that? I never. I wanted to fight professionally. I trained. That was close enough for me. There's no what if I got as close as you can get without doing it Okay, cool. What if I was a firefighter? I gave that a run. I had some experiences Like there's very little what if, when it comes to that, I don't, I didn't want. What if?

Alan Lazaros:

Well, here's the problem with this too You've gotten to a place in your life where you've achieved your dreams Not all of them, obviously, but a lot of them being a full-time podcaster, being married. Dream car not your dream car, but a luxury vehicle, healthy, wealthy in love. And I think one of the things that's really hard to articulate is that, having been on the other side of tremendous adversity, of course I'm grateful for all the terrible relationships I was in because I ended up with the best person.

Kevin Palmieri:

Now that you're not. Yeah, now that I'm with Emilia.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, Kevin asked me one time. He said would you go back and change anything if you could? And I said do I still get to meet emilia smith? And he said yes. I said Then I would change fucking everything, Almost everything. But but that's the paradox that you can't if, if People say well, you shouldn't have regrets because that led you here. Listen, only the people who make it to a great place don't have regrets.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I think they still do. They just don't admit it. They don't admit it, yeah, because the regret doesn't outweigh the happiness or the gratitude, or the pleasure or the joy, or whatever it is Everybody has regrets.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, If Kev still had 15 bucks in his bank account, wasn't married, didn't have any of his dreams, wasn't a full time pod and was at a job he hates, do you seriously think he wouldn't have any regrets?

Kevin Palmieri:

Right, well, this is the hard part. Let's say we did this, we gave it a real go, and you and I were in a much different situation. It was like, alan, you know we're about to record our 2000th episode. Nobody has listened to an episode in the last like 500.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know I don't know like what do you think you know are we? Are we just delusional at this point? What are we? What are we doing here? At least then you could have the conversation and say look, we gave it a go, we gave it a go. Would we regret stopping right now or would we regret continuing? I think that's the question. What would you regret more? A lot of things I did for too long and I regretted it. Very few things that I actually quit did I regret, honestly. But if I wasn't where I am today, would I say that?

Alan Lazaros:

Don't know Exactly. That's the problem. Yeah, that's the problem. There was someone who sat me down early on in Kevin and I's journey and she said are you full of shit? Like are you. Are you delusional? Like it's okay. And I remember thinking are you out of your mind? We're really successful. Why don't you see where this is going? I understand now in hindsight and, by the way, that fired me up, so thank you to that person. I mean I, you want to talk about motivation. You know how to push my buttons. Fucking. Don't believe in me. So exciting. Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm gonna get the last laugh on this one you ever want to get me motivated.

Alan Lazaros:

That's what I need.

Kevin Palmieri:

Tell Alan he can't do something. It works well.

Alan Lazaros:

It does. It works really well. What I now understand is that that person could not project into the future. They couldn't see what we're currently doing and our current run rate and project it into the future. They couldn't see what we're currently doing in our current run rate and project it into the future. There's this website that one of my clients uses. He's a YouTuber. I've talked about him anonymously and he you can go to this website and it will show your current trajectory on YouTube and it'll show where you'll be in five, 10, 15, 20 years. If you know, with based on the algorithms and in finance, you can do it too, right, if you have.

Alan Lazaros:

So I had one client once who had, uh, three hundred thousand dollars invested in an account.

Alan Lazaros:

Her father had started a fund when she was born and just kept putting in it and she saved 20% of her paycheck and she never made more than like 20 bucks an hour, which again is pretty solid actually, all things considered and she just always put money away, put money away, put money away. And when I was coaching her I was like you do know, you're gonna have 11.8. I think the calculation was $11.8 million in 20 years, assuming things go as well as they have in the past. It could be a little more, could be a little less, could be a lot less, depending on could be a lot more too. Right and and again, it's just called future projection. So you can look this up, the research shows and she's like, seriously, and I was like, yeah, why are you doing this? Then you're taking money out of your current pocket to put it in your future pocket and you never calculated it she's like no, my dad just told me to do that, yeah her dad was a finance uh teacher.

Alan Lazaros:

You know.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know it's good, you know it's. It's like why do? Why do people eat salads? Do you know exactly all the nutrients and what's in them? No, but it's good. It's good for you. It's better than a cheeseburger.

Alan Lazaros:

It's good. Well, we looked up how to spell sequoia before this. I would look up the nutrients in the salad, because I'm numbers, micros, all that, but I don't wing anything. So again, we'll get this off me for a second here.

Alan Lazaros:

back to you I wing as someone who doesn't project in the future. Because here's the thing I'm certain, like kev was never certain that we'd make it to where we are today. No, and kev asked me one time are you proud of us? And I was like dude, that's a. Please don't ask me that on air. You did and the answer is yes and no. Yes, I'm proud of the effort and the work we do in the world.

Kevin Palmieri:

No.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm not fucking proud of where we've gotten. I mean, we are behind, sir, okay, and in some ways I'm proud of certain things, but ultimately I'm I'm most proud of the work we do in the world. I'm most proud of the sincerity and the effort and the time we've invested into becoming the best men we can be, and I am proud of some of our accomplishments. But from my perspective, mathematically, we are capable of way more, and that's my truth as someone who doesn't project as naturally into the future, based on growth curves and exponentials. How did you hold on to belief when things were so dark?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't. That's always a hard question, because one I had you. That's always a piece, so that's something that's not yeah, you can get around.

Alan Lazaros:

How did you trust me?

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm an idiot in a world where most people didn't.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, I'm an idiot who. Well you were right to do it know, but I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't know. I think it's because you had worked on yourself more than you had worked on anything else. It was like that's different. Like nobody else that's giving me advice has worked on themselves that much they think they have all the answers. Just, for some reason, where did you get these answers though? You were somebody that had worked on yourself a lot, so it just made sense like dialed in on himself, like there's got to be something to that, and in the beginning it started from a place of self-improvement. In the beginning there was no talks about business. For the first year yeah, yeah, for sure.

Alan Lazaros:

So it wasn't about that for me.

Kevin Palmieri:

In the very beginning it was like you know way more than I do about self-improvement and all of these things that I want to learn more about. Let me talk to you more. That's where it started, and then you just seemed like you knew how to lead. So I was like I'll just kind of follow the lead and see what happens. Yeah, I was like I'll just kind of follow the lead and see what happens.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was wrong about a lot of stuff. Well, we both were, but I know that's really hard to replicate, because for every story like this, there's 99 of somebody that gets taken advantage of. Or it doesn't work, or like I'm not worried about that there's zero part of me that's ever worried. One day you and I aren't going to work well together. I don't even think about that. I honestly think more. What do I do if you get mauled by a bear on one of these reckless hikes?

Alan Lazaros:

what do I do to the business?

Kevin Palmieri:

bring your bear spray outside of that I'm not worried about. Are we going to wake up five years from today and say, I don't know if I want to do this business partner thing. I'm not worried about that. But I also understand how rare that is. All of our mentors told us this was dumb Not all of them, but several of them.

Alan Lazaros:

Said this is dumb guys.

Kevin Palmieri:

Most of them. Yeah Well, with all the love and all due respect, you are not us, so maybe it wouldn't work for you.

Alan Lazaros:

They are not us. What? What is different about us and, in that, what you just said there?

Kevin Palmieri:

I think you and I have very, very, very aligned core values. We would rather be good men than I'd rather be a good man with less money than a terrible person with all the money. That's one. Our ultimate goal is to add value to a martyr, like a martyrdom level. We just like helping people. We just do. I just like helping people. I really do.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm not faking that I'm not faking that part. I love that. That's like my favorite thing. Somebody messaged me, somebody joined Evan Carmichael's Mastermind and evidently I didn't know this. It's super cool. There's like all the presenters that have ever been there, there's videos in like a library, and this person saw mine and they sent me an email and they were like hey, I'd love to have you on my podcast. It was amazing. Nice, yeah, of course. They said is that something you would make time for? I got nothing but time for that. I got nothing but time for that.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I would love to do that. So, I don't know. I just think that I think it's easy to take your experiences because we do it. We're a podcast about self-improvement. We try to do a great job of not blanket you never mentioned humility is that because it takes away dude.

Alan Lazaros:

The truth is is you were humble enough to. Actually, because I'm thinking too, you know it's not like you're the only person that I tried to convince.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't think I was that humble, I think I just was. I had so little belief, but I don't know if it was.

Alan Lazaros:

I have a lot of people that have a bunch of. I have very little belief. That didn't trust anything I said.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I'm not saying they're wrong, they are wrong, I know mathematically, but We've made it Like we've again made.

Alan Lazaros:

It is in quotes here I know, I know. But we are more successful than 99% of people thought we'd be.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, but.

Alan Lazaros:

Coming from where we came from.

Kevin Palmieri:

So you were more accurate than them. Slash and would they have I'm?

Alan Lazaros:

I was accurate because I stuck around To maybe not, but they would have stuck around had they believed like you did.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't know man. No, we've had this conversation. We've had. If. I guaranteed you a million dollars five years from today in a bank account, but you had to do the same shit seven days a week. You couldn't miss. You miss once you lose it. Most people are not going to take that. Most people aren't going to take that.

Alan Lazaros:

Hello, hello, hello. Nlu listener. Thank you, as always, for listening to Next Level University. Real quick. I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes. What if, instead of a million dollars it's, you get to live your dream for the rest of your life?

Kevin Palmieri:

The problem is and I'm glad you touched on this, when people say so, I get to live my dream. It's hard as shit. The dream is hard, it's the best, it's fulfilling it's. It's amazing, it's aligned, but it's like a treadmill that never stops and it gets faster. And there's legos on the treadmill there's legos.

Alan Lazaros:

There's legos picture home alone when he steps in through the.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, that's also in retrospect he could have just looked down and he would see like let's be real marv, those films, marv is the dumbest character he in any film ever.

Alan Lazaros:

yeah, very, very, very possible On purpose, obviously.

Kevin Palmieri:

He's a very interesting character. He does wood sculptures and I think he makes maple syrup and stuff. Seems like a down-to-earth cool dude for sure.

Alan Lazaros:

Those films.

Kevin Palmieri:

They're walking up the stairs pretending and then it's like, oh, there's two, and then there's the bar.

Alan Lazaros:

It's a great flick this past Christmas holiday season. I actually two, and then there's the bar. It's a great flick. This past Christmas the holiday season, I actually watched the first one and the second one. I was reminiscing on my childhood. They did a good job.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, don't go any further than the second, because the other ones are dog shit.

Alan Lazaros:

Of course, yeah, the sticky bandits or whatever.

Kevin Palmieri:

The wet bandits and the sticky bandits. Yeah, Okay.

Alan Lazaros:

People out there goals and dreams. What's the thing about goal achievement that you didn't understand? That you were?

Kevin Palmieri:

just wrong about, purely wrong, man. It's, it's really easy to measure, but it's really hard to feel like the measurements add up, that it's really easy to measure whatever it is Like. Let's say you want to lose. Let's just say you want to lose 10 pounds in 10 weeks. That's probably not enough time. Let's say you want to lose 50 pounds this year. I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri:

I feel like for the vast majority of the time, if you don't have the numbers dialed in, you're literally just thinking am I on or off? But isn't that a level of certainty that you want? I know I'm making progress. I just don't know if I'm making progress at the right level, at the right amount. So it's, I just don't make it. I just don't know if I'm making progress at the right level, at the right amount. So it's just yeah, I don't. It's hard, I think.

Kevin Palmieri:

Okay, the best, the best answer I could give is and Alan said this early on in our, in our journey, by the time you get to the goal, you might have evolved to a level of yourself where the goal doesn't really. It doesn't really make you feel the way you thought it would, doesn't mean it's not great, it doesn't mean things aren't different. It doesn't mean you're not proud. It just doesn't fix the part of you that you thought it would fix. And I think if things work really, really well, you've already worked on that part of yourself and it's just like a bonus.

Kevin Palmieri:

If you haven't, then unfortunately it can get to the place where you feel like you just wasted a bunch of time and now you need to set a goal for the next thing that's going to fix you, when in reality it's nothing you're going to set external that fixes you, so that if your goals are external based, don't expect to really feel that much different about yourself internally. Maybe weight loss, I mean that's understandable because you're literally changing the way you see yourself, because you're changing the way you look. But money, relationship, it's all great, but if you don't love you, nothing on this planet is going to make you love yourself Externally.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, by that rationale, you want to set goals that challenge you to work on those things.

Kevin Palmieri:

On yourself.

Alan Lazaros:

That's what I mean.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, yeah on yourself.

Alan Lazaros:

I set goals based on what they will require you to work on yourself. I set goals based on what they will require you to work on yourself Easier said than done, right?

Kevin Palmieri:

Because then you have to kind of have the understanding of how to reverse engineer it. This has helped me. I don't think it'll help anybody else, because it probably just sounds super cool. I don't know how useful it actually is. It probably just sounds super cool, I don't know how useful it actually is. I went from saying when will we get there To I want to make sure that when we get there I can handle it. Like I want to make sure I'm ready when we get there. And those are two very, very different things. For me it was always like when are we going to get there? When are we going to get this? When are we going to get this? When are we going to get this? And I still have that, it's just less Now. It's. I want to make sure when I do get the opportunity I can actually handle it. I want to make sure that's the thing. I don't want to get an opportunity and lose it because I'm not developed enough.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay. So level one is when are we going to get there? Level two is I'm I want to be ready when we do get there. What's level three?

Kevin Palmieri:

how fast do I dictate the next level after we get to that one? Probably how, like what happens when you get to that level, do you celebrate what?

Alan Lazaros:

I was really hoping you'd say how far can I go, or how high can I go, or how high can I climb, or that that isn't part of the equation for you of reaching like and I'm not making that wrong, no, no, no, that's not it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't know what my potential is. I'm not trying to get there because I don't If I thought.

Alan Lazaros:

Are you smarter than you ever thought you'd be For sure. Are you more competent than you ever thought you'd be For sure. Are you more confident than you ever thought you'd be For sure, all right, why?

Kevin Palmieri:

right. Why, how, how, instead of why, how reps the set. There was a goal set that I honestly didn't actually believe I could achieve, but there was a roadmap of well, if we do these things, this is kind of the way you would do it. Then I just tried to show up, even when I was scared, even when I didn't think I could do it, even when I I didn't want to, very, very often, and then eventually, the things that scared scared me at level 10 out of 10, were like nine out of 10. And I was like, okay, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Then it was eight out of 10. Then it was seven out of 10. Then I would go do something on a bigger stage. For lack of better phrasing, that scared me. At 10 out of 10 again, it's like, interesting, okay, now the thing that used to be a 7 is like a 2 because I got a new 10. Then I did the thing that scared me at level 10 out of 10, and then that got better and better and better.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm very, very confident when it comes. I don't think about this at all when you and I are getting ready to record. There's zero part of me that's nervous, worried. I'm not worried about anything, but when we do speeches, I am. I've only done, however, many in-person speeches, but here's the thing it took 150 podcast episodes before I got confident as a podcaster. It might only take a third of that for live events, because I already have some of the attributes built up Now here's the thing.

Alan Lazaros:

Are you nervous for Next Level Live 2025? It's virtual.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, no. The arena matters. If you said, kev, you're going to be on in front of 10,000 people from your office, I don't think I'd be that worried, honestly. Maybe to a delusional extent, I don't know. I feel very comfortable here. I don't think I'd be that worried, honestly, maybe to a delusional extent, I don't know. I feel very comfortable here. I don't have to worry about what to do with my hands. I don't have to worry about where I'm walking. I just fucking sit here.

Alan Lazaros:

Jazz hands.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm just we've just you just think of the reps, Think of the amount of time my ass has been in this chair just doing this over and over, so I just I feel way more comfortable there. Now. This is something I want to add Because, again, I don't want this to all be like highlight oh yeah, it all is working out, it's all perfect. I went on a podcast yesterday and I was looking at the description of this podcast and I said to.

Kevin Palmieri:

Alan after I said I had no business being on this fucking podcast. This podcast and I said to Alan, after I said I had no business being on this fucking podcast, it was about startups and AI and all this stuff that I was like this is going to be horrible, going to be horrible.

Alan Lazaros:

Went really well. When you say it's going to be horrible, unpack the thought process, the actual thought process.

Kevin Palmieri:

The fear that I have, the deepest fear that I have, is it will either be at the very beginning of the episode, where the person says, eh, honestly, I fucked up, we're not going to do it, okay, I'll just see myself out. In the middle they'll be like no, we can't finish this, this is not what I expected. Or at the end they'll just be like no, we can't finish this, this is not what I expected. Or at the end they'll just be like I appreciate your time. Thank you so very much. It's a lot different than I expected. I don't think it's going to be valuable to the audience.

Alan Lazaros:

Where does that come from? That's not good enough. Yeah, that has never Did that stem from?

Kevin Palmieri:

childhood. I think it yeah, my dad leaving.

Alan Lazaros:

So for me, me it's the, it's the opposite. Where it's, I know, I'll do a good job. That doesn't matter if they don't like me. Well, I'm worried, you know they'll like you, but you don't think you'll do a good job there's a little part of me.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is deep, this is deep, so please sit with me, don't judge this. There's a little part of me that was like, honestly, it's kind of like cheating, because I'm a successful podcaster and he respects me. If I didn't have the podcast, I wonder what he would think of me. It's almost like yeah, it's almost like they're. I'm not getting the reality of the person and how they actually.

Alan Lazaros:

is that imposter syndrome? Is that what that is? What would you call that? Yeah, I had a moment earlier. I don't mean to interrupt you, but there was a podcast I was on and he said do you struggle with imposter syndrome? And I I this is the first time I was able to articulate it in this way. I said I was too much of a coward in the past to share this. But no, I have imposter syndrome in social situations. Yes, at the barbecue, I feel like an imposter. I feel like I don't belong here. When I'm on the microphone being interviewed about complex success principles, I don't feel like an imposter at all. This is all I do. I live this every fucking day, always, 24-7, 365. I'm not an imposter here. Kevin and I interviewed someone named Stephen Kotler for episode 632. I actually sent it to one of my clients recently and he said wow, you're more jacked now.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm like dude I don't know if you're looking at the right camera, because back then Kevin and I were definitely in better shape. But Stephen Kotler wrote a book called the Art of Impossible. It's actually in my top five now behind me and it's about how to achieve something that most people think is impossible. And before the interview, we both read the book, we do our research. Awesome. And Kevin and I talked behind the scenes. He's like we already kind of implemented everything in this book and I said well, I've been studying peak performance, just like Stephen Kotler, for a very long time, kind of my whole life in some ways, but really especially over the last five years, at least five years at that point, 10 years now.

Alan Lazaros:

And the truth is is when you are aiming at something that most people think is impossible, of course you're going to stumble upon the principles that get you there Right, and I think that sounds a little overly simplistic. You basically the world, becomes your library, like we decided to do something 10 years ago. I decided to shoot for something that's never been done. Okay, I'll keep it high level. Then I reoriented my entire mind, body, heart and soul to the world, became my library to find out how to do it. And Kevin said to me one time like how do you know all this? I said, brother, I had to learn this because I couldn't achieve my dream without knowing these things. So it's not like I. You're not just going to stumble upon success principles. You need to have a goal that requires you to learn them. Okay, what's my point of all this? Kevin and I were at we spent every Father's Day together. This is before we had the Next Level Hope Foundation Father's Day events and we went fishing, because that was what we used to do on Father's Day. And we went back to where I grew up and my neighbor across the lake had a family Father's Day barbecue and I told Kev this is a big line of demarcation in our relationship where we learned a lot about ourselves.

Alan Lazaros:

I felt not like an imposter at all interviewing Stephen Kotler. I felt like that was my, where I belong, and I told Kev at the barbecue. I said, dude, I don't feel like I belong here at all. And you had the opposite reaction. You said, dude, I can. I can hang at a barbecue any day of the week. Got it Okay?

Alan Lazaros:

So you have imposter syndrome when you're interviewed by someone who's a space doctor at nasa? I don't, I don't feel like I would have imposter syndrome at all. I'd actually be concerned that he's gonna think I'm arrogant and syndrome at all. I'd actually be concerned that he's going to think I'm arrogant and I think that that's something. A lesson in that for everybody is where do you feel like you're an imposter? I feel like I'm an imposter at Thanksgiving, 100%. I mean, I can't talk about anything I care about. Right, what's everyone's goals and dreams for 2025? Uh, what, yeah, no, metrics, habits, priorities, goals, skills, thoughts. It's like who the what? The fuck? Isn't it thanksgiving, don't you want to eat? So where do you feel like an imposter is a big sort of lesson I want to extrapolate out of this. Okay, last question I know you gotta jump, how long do?

Kevin Palmieri:

you have nine minutes I have nine, uh like eight. I need a minute how dare you?

Alan Lazaros:

i'm'm kidding. Okay, eight minutes Suckiest advice. So eight years ago you started a podcast. Boom, we're successful. Quote unquote mountain that gets higher as you climb it. Awesome Statistically speaking, though, as as podcasters, we've gotten to a place most podcasters never will. Statistically speaking, very grateful 16 person team heard in 175 countries, 1.17 million listens okay, awesome. Very grateful. You've achieved a lot of what a lot of people want to achieve your dreams, living your dream life. What's the suckiest advice that you've gotten in the last eight years? A lot of what a lot of people want to achieve your dreams, living your dream life. What's the suckiest advice that you've gotten in the last eight years and why? It's just horse shit.

Kevin Palmieri:

Oh man, there's been a lot of it. Chase your passion, chase your purpose, money will will come. That's not true. It's not. It's just. It's just not true for most people. I think some people it works.

Alan Lazaros:

But it's my bad. I was in that camp for a time yeah, a little bit I know is I was good at.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it's really empowering. I think it's a really it's really empowering. I think it's a really it's really empowering. But without strategy, you know, you could say my passion is fitness, cool, go exercise, go awesome. But there has to be some strategy. You're not going to get any results. That that's a big. That's one of the biggest ones. And I think the second one is if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. I think that's one of the most disempowering things ever, because I've never met somebody who loves life all the time.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's going to be some stuff that sucks With everything. I am in the best relationship I've ever been in. I am deeply in love. I'm going to be with Taryn for the rest of my life. There are some things that suck, but it's Outweighed by the things that are truly amazing. That, I think, it's all it is.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's just a different ratio. I used to go to jobs where I fucking hated it and some days were good, like that was a pretty good day, right. The ratio was 90% shit. I used to go to jobs where I fucking hated it and some days were good, like yeah, that was a pretty good day, right. The ratio was. It was 90% shit and 10% cool. And I think as you find what you love and you do more and more and more of it, the ratio shifts and then even shitty days now are better than great days used to be, because at least I'm doing what I love and I'm adding value and all that.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I work a lot. I work every day in some way shape or form, and that's just the way I think it's going to be forever. And I would say this if, if what you do fulfills you, you'll probably be okay with working every day for the rest of your life. That there's a little part of me I told. Did I say this on the podcast?

Kevin Palmieri:

There was just a bunch of stuff going on with the business and I was on the couch eating dinner at like 7.30, and I had my cell phone in one hand and my fork in the other and I was in WhatsApp for like an hour. My food was getting cold. There's a little part of me that kind of loves it. Yeah, we're making progress here. We're putting out fires. It's stressful, but I wouldn't rather be doing anything else. So, yeah, that If what you do truly fulfills you, you're probably going to be okay with working way more than other people, and you're going to be wildly misunderstood, because I think fulfillment is a drug that we're all after, but most of us don't know how to find it, understandably so that?

Alan Lazaros:

how do you find it?

Kevin Palmieri:

if you've ever had something where you said, oh my goodness, I'm in love with that. If I could find a way to make a living out of doing that, my life would be incredible. That's the best advice I can give, because that's where I started that you just don't want it to go away. You're afraid it's going to get taken away from you. You're afraid you're not going to be able to do it anymore. You're afraid you're going to have to do it less. Like it's that. It's something that you feel so abundantly attached to that you can't imagine doing less of it. I can't imagine not podcasting. I can't imagine it. My life would feel again I'm married and I have a great relationship, all that but it would feel empty. It wouldn't feel the same. It wouldn't feel the same not adding value. It wouldn't feel the same to me that I wouldn't trade it for anything. There's nothing. I would trade it for that's. I would say that's probably the highest level of fulfillment nice.

Alan Lazaros:

Last question yeah, three minutes. That was the suckiest advice you ever got was if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Bullshit. You know the card game bullshit. Yeah, that's what I like about. When you hear self-improvement principles you can call bullshit. It's like ah, you're lying. Seems too good to be true. Yeah, it probably is, and that's the facts, because there's a constructive and destructive part of it. There's North Pole, south Pole, above the iceberg, below the iceberg. Okay, that was the suckiest advice you ever got. A couple things what's the best advice you ever got? And actually unpack it too no bumper sticker, self-improvement.

Kevin Palmieri:

Hmm, I always go back to big. Things start small. You said that in the very beginning. I know it's not advice, but it was like what. If you just knew that where you were starting was probably going to be more underwhelming than you thought, and that gave you the permission to actually just keep doing it. That we have a client. Shout out to Jenna, if you're listening, actually just keep doing it. That we have a client, jenna. Shout out to Jenna, if you're listening. She just crossed 50 listens on our podcast and she was so excited. Yeah, it's like fuck. Yeah, jenna. Yes, that's awesome. There's probably a lot of people that would hear that and say like only 50 listens. That's where everybody starts though.

Kevin Palmieri:

Every single person ever of all time has started at 50 listens in something. That's where everybody starts, though Every single person ever of all time has started at 50 listens in something that you're just. You're not at the place where I'm at, where I can say big things start small, because I know I was there too and now I'm further and it's a whole thing. But everybody starts there In everything, In everything. So I think that's probably it, because in some way, shape or form, we're all starting from some foundation. Okay.

Alan Lazaros:

I'll wrap Go ahead.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was going to say the only difference between somebody who stops at 50 listens and continues is the one who understands. 50 listens is just par for the course and a necessary metric to cross.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, you said this at top. I'll wrap this in a bow.

Kevin Palmieri:

I know you're gonna go. No, it's good.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm gonna text this person because they're texting me right now okay, um, you said at the beginning that you're, you were playing not to lose status, social status and perception. Yeah, if someone is playing not to lose social status and perception, you're going to be too embarrassed about 50 listens to keep going. You guarantee failure. You, yeah, you lose it by default. You lose it by default and I think that that's one thing. And and for anyone on my side of the fence here, when it comes to playing not to lose relationships, if kevin were to give younger kev a piece of advice, it would be you have to risk losing social status in the short term in order to gain it long term, and for me it would. You have to risk losing friends now to gain your dreams and goals, because there's no fucking chance they're coming with you on this journey. That is just not for everybody.

Kevin Palmieri:

Strong work man. I would say that's accurate. So I'm pretending I'm just going to look straight at the camera because I can't look my laptop's here now it's a whole thing. I'm getting ready for the next interview. I'll look up here. Thank you, I appreciate it. Getting ready for the next episode. We do, we can do uh, we'll do an allen interview.

Alan Lazaros:

I gotta think of something good though oh, dude, it's all good you don't talk about what it's like to work with such a fucking genius?

Kevin Palmieri:

what is it like to to work with kev every day? What has that been like for you? Pretty humbling. I can imagine it's probably taught you a lot about yourself, right you ever get starstruck. You ever get starstruck by no, I I I appreciate the questions and again it's.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is this one's always hard for me because I didn't reverse engineer any of this. I've been along for the ride. I show up, I'll change the tire, I'll put oil in it, whatever, whatever, I'll change the windshield wipers, whatever needs to get done. But you have, uh, been instrumental. I guess that that's an understatement. So you got to find yourself an allen. That that's what you got to do. And then you got to put up with his bullshit Like again great, we got a great relationship, best business partner in the world. He's a pain in my ass sometimes, just like I'm a pain in his ass.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, you said it with your wife, taryn Not everything's great. 99% or 90%, I think, is what you use is great, and there's 10% that isn't great, and well, that's not, that wasn't my relationship, that was everything else.

Kevin Palmieri:

My relationship is 99 one.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, fair, fair yeah, say it on a public medium? No, but seriously, I think that's really powerful. Okay, I know we got to get out of here.

Kevin Palmieri:

I also desperately have to pee. Unfortunately, I got an hour and a half interview, 90 minutes right now of bladder bursting interviews. All right, as always. We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. Thank you so much for tuning in. At NLU, we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros:

Stay next level, next level nation.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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