Next Level University

There’s A Big Difference Between Intending And Trying (1990)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In this episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros talk about why belief is the foundation for achieving anything—more than knowledge, tactics, or talent. They share their own experiences of doubt, what helped them push through, and how belief creates the persistence needed to reach big goals. If you’ve ever felt stuck or questioned if you’re capable of more, this episode will give you the mindset shifts and small steps to build belief in yourself.

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Show notes:
(2:15) The role of belief in long-term success
(6:19) Hope Vs. Certainty in entrepreneurship
(8:51) The real reason people quit early
(11:54) How past self-doubt shaped confidence
(15:15) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/4dPeTiD
(19:32) How belief is built through small wins
(27:00) Overconfidence Vs. Reality check
(27:58) Action is the key to overcoming doubt
(28:04) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

I think belief is the number one thing, I think it's the most important thing, and I think that's why you can kind of over-dig into self-improvement, because it doesn't really matter if you have all the tactics. This is why tactics are good, but tactics without belief are just puzzle pieces and I think it creates anxiety, like I know what to do, I know what to do, I know what to do, I just don't believe I can do it.

Alan Lazaros:

That's completely different than not knowing what to do when I'm 36, dude, this is the other thing I want to ask you. I demand more of myself now at 36 than I did when I was younger. So you can only demand of yourself the extent that you believe in yourself but yet you'll only believe in yourself to the extent that you put demand on yourself.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your-belief, self-worth, self-awareness relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success. Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today, for episode number 1,990, we're in the 1990s, now the decade after you and I were born, decade after. There's a big difference between intending and trying. So last episode we talked about the relationship growth gap and we essentially said we're going to do a part two. I didn't just want to name it the relationship growth gap part two, so we named it something different. But we will touch on that and some other things that came up from that.

Kevin Palmieri:

We, in the very beginning, beginning of this, when you and I really sat down and started having pretty deep conversations about growth and belief and self-worth and all that stuff, I said the most important thing to goals, to achievement I think to almost everything is belief, self-belief, yeah, yeah, the certainty in oneself that you can produce external outcomes. That's belief, the certainty you have in yourself. And towards the end of last episode, we were talking about how I didn't start this with the understanding that I'd ever get to 2,000 episodes and you said what do you mean? I thought you knew we'd get here. Or you said I don't start things that I'd ever get to 2,000 episodes and you said what do you mean? And I thought you knew we'd get here. Or you said I don't start things that I don't plan on doing forever. It's like yeah, no, you're weird, though that's not normally how it goes. Can I just clarify?

Alan Lazaros:

real quick, you don't think you're weird? No, I definitely think I'm weird. I'm just kidding.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah definitely I don't have any problems with being weird In the best way, Brother you're not going to offend me.

Alan Lazaros:

We're good, statistically different for sure. The clarification that I want to give is it's like thinking like an investor you make decisions based on what you believe. So, for example, when you and I got together in business, I hoped I was investing in the fact that you and I would work together forever, because and we can go into this if you want but long-term investments are what pay off long-term. That's the dumbest thing I've ever said. Long-term investments pay off more than short-term. Uh, that's the dumbest thing I've ever said. Long-term investments pay off more than short-term investments. So like, if you bought bitcoin, my roommates and I were mining for bitcoin in 2007 in our dorm room, and that was before anyone knew bitcoin would be worth anything and if you had, if we had kept our bitcoin, I mean we'd be multi-millionaires yeah, and again, in some ways, most of us are anyway.

Alan Lazaros:

But the no one knew. You can't predict the future fully, but you can. You can project outcomes, so you're playing the probabilities. And so when we were mining for bitcoin in 2007, we we didn't know that bitcoin would be worth whatever it's worth right now. If we did, we would have held on to it right. So when I get into business, I don't get into business thinking, oh, this is most likely going to fail. I get into business knowing it could fail. So my first company in 2012 was called Campus Libre. It was me and three of my close friends in college and we were pretty successful out of the gate. We had a. It was a campus specific Craigslist for textbooks. We won business awards it was. It was really cool and we were going to eventually expand it to sort of a Craigslist in general for campuses. There's another competitor called Uloop at the time Doesn't matter. The point is, when I invest time, effort or money into something, I'm doing it hoping that it is long-term.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think everybody is. I think the hope is just dependent on the person Back in the day. I've told the story before, but this was like my first idea for an entrepreneurial endeavor. I was working at my weatherization job and I was like I'd like to make some money on the side, like what's something I could do, and I found I found somebody who was essentially making custom cell phone cases. Cell phone cases were pretty big back I mean, this was probably 2000, I don't know 13, 12, 13?. Cell phone cases were pretty big back then because the phones were newer. There wasn't really big brands like OtterBox and all these other brands, so you could buy cell phone cases from China, get them shipped over and do your thing to them and then sell them for a profit yeah of course I did the research, hoping that it was something that would end up working.

Kevin Palmieri:

I just never went through with it. I hoped it would work.

Alan Lazaros:

When you and I first started a business together, how certain were you that this, this, I guess, my question is did you decide to be a successful entrepreneur before you jumped into entrepreneurship so? So you thought you'd be a failure. I didn't know I was hopeful.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was hopeful that this would work, but I wasn't certain. If I was certain, I probably would have done it earlier.

Alan Lazaros:

I can't be certain that you and I will work, but I can't. Here's the difference. One of them is a mentality that I'm going to make this work. The other one is the mentality of I hope it works. So even even the hope thing isn't actually what I was doing. What I was doing is I'm going to make this decision to invest time, effort, effort and money into this business partnership with Kevin, because I believe that is what's best long-term. And the moment that changes, I could not do this with you. I still think it's what's best long-term, otherwise I wouldn't continue to do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

And is is what is what is different for you in that is different for you in that I just felt like I was in less control. I think that's probably the best way to. I tried this. There wasn't. There wasn't really a long-term intention of this is where I want it to go, not super specific. I wanted it to do this full time. That was kind of the first. That was the first thing. I want to find a way to do this full time. I want to make this my job. Everything else kind of had to happen in order for that to happen. But I think that's the difference.

Kevin Palmieri:

So this is something that we were talking about behind the scenes. That I think is super, super valuable. That I don't know if I've ever gotten to land or if I've ever really heard it land the probably the best thing about belief. Two things One, you'll try things. Most other people won't. Two, you'll just keep going forever. And that second thing is really hard to. It's really hard to replicate that Like that's the what if? The only difference between us and again I'm using us as an example, because I know the behind the scenes of us coming up on 2,000 episodes and somebody who quits eight episodes in is they just didn't think they could do it and then they called it quits.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah if you don't think you can do it, why it really comes down to. If you don't believe it's gonna work, you're not gonna do what's necessary to make it work. It's, it's fundamental paradox, you and I. Right now we're having internet issues.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm having internet issues, yes.

Alan Lazaros:

And you and I are going to power through this and get this episode done, and if this episode doesn't work, we're going to record later. We're not going to miss. But the reason why all that is true is because we know it'll be worth it. Why do we know it'll be worth it? Because we know that we can be successful. It's just a matter of how successful and for how long, and not even for how long it's. We didn't.

Alan Lazaros:

I didn't, I didn't go into this podcasting thing, saying I want to thing, saying I want to start a podcast, to start a podcast. The podcast was a vehicle for a grander mission to build a company that can bring self-improvement, personal growth, personal development to the masses. And everything falls underneath that in my consciousness. And and everything falls underneath that in my consciousness. And it's so interesting to me how it's very difficult to replicate success when the things that actually create success are the most invisible, are the most invisible, like if I didn't say any of this or have the courage to share any of this. We could easily just be like, yeah, we started a podcast, that all worked out, everything's good. You know, we worked really hard, blah, blah, blah.

Alan Lazaros:

But that's not really what did it? What did? It is saying no to a million dollars worth of investment, saying no to every other thing that we could have done, failing forward constantly, never, ever, ever questioning whether or not this could work. I know that it can work and here's why I have the evidence to this. Other people make it work. It's not impossible to start a successful podcast. People have done it?

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, it is.

Alan Lazaros:

if you don't believe you can, it's almost it's almost impossible can I interview you about that? Because when you see other people that are successful podcasters, like what does your brain's okay go back to before?

Kevin Palmieri:

go back to way back before you believed in yourself, because now you think both ways.

Alan Lazaros:

You have a benefit that I don't, because I've. I have I've changed in my thinking and I've evolved and I've grown and I've matured a lot and I'm grateful for all that. But you have been on both sides of this. I I genuinely. I used to think, okay, well, other people start a successful podcast, so I'll just go do that, and and that. You know it's been way harder than I thought in many regards. But at the end of the day, I never questioned whether or not you and I could be successful, because, from my perspective, why wouldn't we be? We're two professionals.

Kevin Palmieri:

We are effective communicators. We're decent looking guys. We're hardworking. I wasn't in the beginning. I wasn't a competent person. I wasn't a good communicator, I wasn't a professional. What I used to do is I would look at someone and I would say, hmm, I wonder all the things that they have that I don't. That's 100%. What did your?

Alan Lazaros:

brain come up with.

Kevin Palmieri:

Their smarter. Their smarter is number one, and here's the truth. Some of them are that's factually correct At. Some of them are yeah, that's factually correct At the time. Still, I'm not a. I think I'm intelligent and I would say above average based on what I've learned. But there's yeah, no, what did you think before Did?

Alan Lazaros:

you think you were dumb? Yes, that's a really vulnerable conversation.

Kevin Palmieri:

Of course I did. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Alan Lazaros:

But you just look, things are out of your reach.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, okay, if you don't feel like you're attractive, you're probably not going to go approach the model in the corner.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, yeah, yeah that I've been there.

Kevin Palmieri:

I've been there. It's not going to happen. Yeah, I've been there. Is that I relate to? Well, I think it's the same thing. It felt impossible.

Alan Lazaros:

This I can relate to. I just want to real quick. When I was a freshman in high school, there was a girl that I really wanted to date who was dating the most attractive guy. I mean, the teachers wanted to sleep with this kid and some of them did.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I was going to say, and they probably did.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, but I remember thinking there's nothing I could do to possibly attract this woman. That was the worst feeling ever.

Kevin Palmieri:

I feel like that's kind of what life feels like without belief. You know what?

Alan Lazaros:

my response to that pain was Go, get better, give me 20 years.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, but that's because you have belief, yeah it's so weird and interesting.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, so you go, you talk about it.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I think that's it. I just always kind of felt like it just wasn't for me, success wasn't for me. That's why, when I ended up getting a good job and I was making good money, it kind of messed with my identity because it was like I'm not supposed to be here. What does all of this mean? That's a superpower of well, let's give it 20 years. That's just not a normal human experience thing, but it just seemed inaccessible, whatever the right phrasing is so you just forever yeah.

Alan Lazaros:

So you started a podcast, thinking you wouldn't succeed.

Kevin Palmieri:

I started a podcast because I wanted to have cool conversations with cool people. That was it. I wasn't thinking about success. To have cool conversations with cool people, that was it. I wasn't thinking about success. I wasn't thinking about next year. I was thinking about there was a poll in Next Level Nation today and it was what's harder starting or maintaining? Starting for sure, not for me. Yeah, starting for me, I get excited. I'm like excited to start new stuff. For me, it's continuing.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, when I posted that earlier, I thought that staying is probably harder for most people, I think. Staying Because starting can be exciting.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I think it depends. I think it depends.

Alan Lazaros:

There's a lot of people that said it's also scary.

Kevin Palmieri:

A lot of people said starting. It was like it makes sense, I'm excited, I get excited to start new things. There's like a there's a rush of emotion and it's like, oh, this is cool, this is super cool. I can't wait to learn more about this.

Alan Lazaros:

But then eventually a year in the luster has kind of worn off. Yeah, that's the emotional thing. Nlu listener, what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

We were talking about this the other day like, honestly and again, this is not me taking a trip to Negative Town. This is just me being honest about the journey. This isn't, as. The whole thing isn't as fun as it used to be. It just isn't. This part is Honestly. I think this part is probably more fun. The podcasting part, like being on the mics, is probably more fun than it's ever been, because I actually feel like I've figured out who I am more and I'm able to be myself more.

Alan Lazaros:

Do you think that some people go into business for fun? Yes, what would you say to that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I would say it would probably be beneficial to identify what fun means, because I think there are some pieces. You and I used to be in the studio, do you?

Kevin Palmieri:

think going into business to have more fun is a terrible idea unless you have like some lifestyle sports brand or something like if you're, if you're a snowboarder and you start a business but like you don't do any of it, you have enough money where people just kind of do it for you and you can keep snowboarding and making content. Outside of that, I feel like it's going to be. Yeah, you're probably gonna have to trade in some fun. That's not the point. I don't. I don't want to make that the point of the episode.

Kevin Palmieri:

I, you and I used to meet in the studio on monday and we'd be together for like nine hours or ten hours. We'd be listening to music. Now, again, we were working. We were working really hard, but it was just different. So that's kind of evolved in a a different direction and the team calls used to be more fun and now it's like look, we have an hour to get through all this. I don't want to. I don't want you guys to have to be here for an extra half hour like alan's got a call, let's hammer through this. So that's kind of been the the the journey of this, and I just think that's an important thing for everyone to know. If you intend on doing something for a long period of time, the way you look at it is probably going to end up changing, and that's okay, and I think belief is that's why it's so important to start small how do you know when someone believes in themselves more than you believe in yourself?

Kevin Palmieri:

geez. Honestly I don't anymore. It used to be. They have more results than I do, but now I realize I mean a lot of that's time. It doesn't necessarily mean they have. I think everybody has more belief than I do in some place in life.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

Right. I think that makes total sense. So it's. It depends on what light I see them in. Some people I'm mind-blown at how confident they are in one thing, but when it comes to recording a video they're like a fish out of water. Of course, they haven't done it that much, so they're not as confident in that as I am. Understandable Makes sense. But that's why we have to start small. Now more than ever, I think belief is the number one thing. I think it's the most important thing and I think that's why you can kind of over overdig into self-improvement, Because it doesn't really matter if you have all the. This is why tactics are good, but tactics without belief are just puzzle pieces and I think it creates anxiety Like I know what to do. I know what to do, I know what to do. I just don't believe I can do it. That's completely different than not knowing what to do.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, if you don't believe you can do it, you're not what to do. I know what to do, I just don't believe I can do it. That's completely different than not knowing what to do. Yeah, if you don't believe you can do it, you're not going to do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it doesn't matter if you have the answer.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, you're just not going to do it. You've got to start really, really small and start building belief. All of us start out with no belief. No one's born with belief. You, no one's born with belief, you know, or you're born with belief, and then it gets. I don't know. Do you think you're born with belief or do you think you build it? I think you build it yeah, of course you build it like first. You don't know how to crawl. You start to crawl and you're like, oh, fuck, yeah, nice I can get this pudding or whatever.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm just putting stuff but I think it depends on a lot of stuff does this land at all?

Alan Lazaros:

a baby who learns to crawl and then learns to walk, and then learns to eat and do all this stuff, like that's the same as starting a podcast. It's the same exact concept, it's.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's not the same, obviously, but it's like I don't know, I guess but when you crawl, you're not worried about what people think about your crawling, so it doesn't matter. That's fair, it doesn't? No, I same concept, yes, but there's no judgment in being a baby. You literally are just pooping your pants all the time. You know like an adult. They don't let you do it well, it's probably I mean it's not necessarily ideal, I suppose right.

Kevin Palmieri:

But hey, I've been there in the past, of course, when I was a kid, for sure, and here's the thing Eventually, it's weird how that's how you come into the world and a lot of us end up going.

Alan Lazaros:

Out of the world that way.

Kevin Palmieri:

So that's kind of the the circle of it, again, not to talk about Darkness and death, but it's not. I don't think it's that simple.

Alan Lazaros:

The circle of life with Kevin Palmieri. You start out pooping in your pants and you end up pooping in your pants.

Kevin Palmieri:

People say well, it's just like learning how to ride a bike. It's easy when you're young, when you don't care what people think and you're not worried about your training wheels when you're four years old. You're not thinking about I kind of look like a loser. You thinking about I kind of look like a loser. You're not thinking about that?

Alan Lazaros:

You don't care about that. There's also a level of sophistication to winning. Winning tennis against Serena Williams is a little harder than learning to crawl right.

Alan Lazaros:

So I understand why the metaphor doesn't land. I do, and then there's potential. So that comes into it, and this is another piece that I've been contemplating a lot over the last decade is okay, this is going to be an interesting conversation. I've coached a lot of people. Awesome, go alan, cool. That's not why I'm saying it. There are some people who actually aren't capable of what you're capable of for sure so it's very.

Alan Lazaros:

what does that mean? It means that they don't have the same potential that you have. So there's some people who have the potential but don't believe in it, and then there's some people who don't have the potential and do believe in it. That's been interesting for me. Those people are way harder to coach because you don't want to be the bearer of bad news and say, hey, I, with all the love, it's not going to happen for you and and I don't know who deluded you into thinking that you can make it to the top of this, this game, but you're not. You're not gonna. And and the extreme example would be you playing in the NBA, it's, it's never going to happen, no matter how hard you try.

Alan Lazaros:

So I guess number one is what is your true potential? And here's the thing how do you know it? How do you know what your potential is? Dude, when you're eight, you expect more of an eight-year-old than you do of a seven-year-old. You expect more of a 12-year-old than you do of an eight-year-old. You expect more of a 36-year-old than you do of a 12 year old. When I'm 36, dude, this is the other thing I want to ask you. I demand more of myself now at with at 36, than I did when I was younger you believe in yourself more.

Alan Lazaros:

So you can only demand of yourself the extent that you believe in yourself but yet you'll only believe in yourself to the extent that you put demand on yourself because I was thinking about this good good.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, go ahead. No, you're good.

Alan Lazaros:

Athletes, I think, are a good metaphor, because in baseball you thought you got lucky. But here's the thing Baseball set up goals for you. The goal is to win a championship. They set up it's all the structure. Think about sports. You get put into a game, all the rules are made, you have to learn how to play the game and you have a bunch, you have a, you have an offensive coach and a defensive coach and a batting coach and you have coaches, and so you just kind of show up and then they sort of nudge you in the right direction, towards success. And then you go into life. Well, good luck, brother. And then they just send you off and I got to say people without coaches, that's a huge L, because you didn't decide to be great at baseball. You just showed up and the coaches helped you become better and you happened to be really athletic and you worked really hard and were reckless, and that was it Formula for success. Boom. And you worked really hard and were reckless, and that was it Formula for success. Boom. And then you go into life and it's oh shit, I guess I'll. Okay, I need a corporate. Okay, well, now I have a mentor at corporate. Okay, interesting, I just I've been thinking a lot lately about what is your potential and how much does that dictate your self-belief?

Alan Lazaros:

And then, when you have higher self-belief, you do more, which then brings challenges. And if you overcome those challenges, now you believe in yourself even more, which then makes you aim even higher. It's this sort of cyclical loop, this pattern. I sent you something yesterday about a cycle and I think that anyone who's out there who feels really stuck, I'm certain of a couple things. Number one you're capable of more than you're currently demonstrating. Anyone can get better. That's true, no matter where you start from. Anyone can get better. Kevin can't be in the NBA, but he can get better at basketball, that's for sure. Since we last played I'm kidding, seriously, I am joking you actually impressed me but anyone can get better than they are. But here's the thing you won't unless you have a reason. So if you're getting better just for the sake of getting better, I think that's awesome. I think that's rare. I think most people get better out of the desire to achieve some, some external result necessity.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, yeah, it's a yeah, I mean it's a whole thing, because I don't. The only way I kind of know my potential now is I've gone beyond what I thought was capable. So now it's like oh okay, maybe I am onto something here. So I think if you're somebody who struggles with self-belief, you just need proof. My first job ever was pumping gas. I was terrified because I didn't know how to pump gas. I thought it was this like mythical thing. And then I practiced it and I did it and I got really good at it. But I never would have thought I could get good at it until I started and realized, oh, this is easier than I thought.

Alan Lazaros:

So I think we build these things up in our heads Is everything almost always easier than you thought.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, no, I don't think so. I think it depends on how long I think about it, because I can overthink certain things. I don't know. I mean, that's a conversation for another episode, probably. But belief, if you're stuck, if you're lost, if you don't know what to do, if you don't know where to start, start by building belief and start super small. And the way you build belief is you state you're going to do something. You prove to yourself that you can actually do it and then you self-assign to yourself. I said I was going to do it. I proved to myself that I did it. Now I want to give myself credit and then that's just a coin in the bank. The next time you going to do a minute 45 and then you do that long enough and maybe you're at the point where you're treading it for 10 minutes or whatever. Whatever you want to get to, that's my thesis.

Alan Lazaros:

I know I got to jump, but last question is what about someone who's delusional? What about someone who has so much self-belief that it's gone past reality?

Kevin Palmieri:

Same thing, Same exact equation, except you've got to go do it. Okay, you think you can tread water for 15 minutes. Get in the pool and let's see what happens.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, and when it's a minute you're gonna learn real quick that you can't, yeah, but you'll maybe have enough belief to say ah shit, I swim a half mile on that triathlon dude, and again it was. It was fine, but you're getting kicked in the face and all that until you get in the pool, you really don't know.

Alan Lazaros:

So everyone's either underestimating or overestimating how hard it will be, and action is the cure-all. Action, taking action is the cure-all. Action, taking action is the cure-all. The right amount of action, yes, the right size action, because if you take two, like if you try to jump 10 stairs at once, you're going to fall and lose your belief? Yes, and if you do one stair at a time, it might not be enough to humble you, right, big? Fish small pond small fish giant is the cure-all.

Kevin Palmieri:

The personal amount of action, yes, and then reflection. After All, right, we gotta hop, because Alan and I both have calls. As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. Nlu, we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros:

Keep it Next Level, next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thanks for joining us for another of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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