Next Level University

Behavior Change Is Hard (1997)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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Why is it so hard to change our habits, even when we know what to do? In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan break down the struggle between mindset and behavior, sharing real-life stories and practical steps to make change stick. They explore why some people take action quickly while others hesitate, the power of external accountability, and how small adjustments can create lasting results. Whether you are trying to improve your fitness, build better routines, or break old patterns, this episode will help you shift your approach and take charge of your habits.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

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Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:19) Kevin’s fitness journey & habit adjustments
(4:55) The power of small habit shifts
(7:26) Why quick behavior change matters
(12:47) Why some people struggle to take action
(15:04) Accountability & getting leverage on yourself
(20:27) Setting up your environment for success
(23:42) At NLU, we want you to win! So, we’re giving tools and resources to ensure your success. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month at 5 PM. https://bit.ly/4dPeTiD
(28:10) The power of public commitment
(35:45) Pain of inaction Vs. Pain of action
(39:16) Goals in conflict & how they hold you back
(43:36

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Alan Lazaros:

You were better at changing your behavior, it couldn't get you to change your mind, like your mindset wasn't as powerful as your behavior. You could change behaviors, no problem, but you didn't have a strong mindset. There's other people that I coach that have a very strong mindset, but they don't change their behavior as well.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's what it is, but it's uncomfortable. I think that's the thing I had, that moment today of the pain of not doing. The thing has to be greater than the pain of doing it. I think that for me, the pain of not doing it is way greater than the actual pain of doing it. Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships boundaries, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today for episode number 1,997. Behavior change is hard. We talk often about habits. We talk about habit stacking, we talk about all that stuff I have been dieting now for I don't know how many weeks, maybe like 12 weeks, something like that.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know.

Kevin Palmieri:

I've been dieting for a while and the scale started to sort of slow down a little bit. And the reason is I wasn't I was I said this on the podcast. I'm kind of like, intuitively just trying to eat under. I don't know if it's been working that well. I've definitely gotten leaner and I can tell when I take pictures and all that, but the scale is not moving at the rate I want it to.

Kevin Palmieri:

So this is my thought I went from eating more intentionally to saying, okay, it's time for me to start dieting down and losing weight, instead of saying, okay, I'm going to track everything I eat, I'm going to start doing cardio, I'm going to make sure I'm doing this, I'm going to make sure I'm doing that.

Kevin Palmieri:

I literally said I'm going to be intentional with my eating and again, this is freaking dangerous. So I'm not saying to do this, I'm going to be intentional with my eating. I'm going to be super intentional with having really hard workouts and I'm going to see what happens to the scale. Scale went down, scale went down, scale went down. Awesome. Now that it's not going at the rate I want it to, I will be even more intentional, but I think that's a really good example of habit building and behavior change. Because if I said you know what I'm going to change, absolutely everything about what I'm doing probably not sustainable, and I wouldn't still be dieting, however many weeks later. I know you probably have a better story than I for this, but that's what came to my mind when I was thinking about behavior change.

Kevin Palmieri:

Did you hear that I'm here? I'm sorry, alan accidentally did a little burpp, but he didn't move away from the mic fast enough. So yeah, that's my thought. Also, I changed when I go to the gym. I was going to the gym at like 8am. Remember that for a while, go ahead. Have I ever spit all over the mic when I was laughing?

Alan Lazaros:

Never, not once, nice, I'm hoping to get there by 2000. We got three episodes left. Have I ever spit all over the mic when I was laughing? Never, not once. Nice I keep my streak.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm hoping to get there by 2000 we got three episodes left.

Alan Lazaros:

What about?

Kevin Palmieri:

changing your time at the gym. Remember, I was going to the gym at like 8am. Dude, honestly no.

Alan Lazaros:

No, you don't remember.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm going to need you to really lock in my schedule please.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, if you could be aware of what I'm doing.

Kevin Palmieri:

For a while I was getting up. I would get up at 6. I would come into the office.

Kevin Palmieri:

I would work and then I would go to the gym and I switched that completely. Now I wake up and I do my mobility and I go to the gym right after I get up. That is the best. But it didn't happen. That wasn't like oh, that's what I'm going to start doing now. It was well, nothing's really going on in WhatsApp. Nothing's really going on in WhatsApp. Let me get to the gym earlier. Then I did that like two days in a row. Then I probably ended up going at eight and I was like I like six o'clock, I like getting up and just kind of flowing to the gym. Check WhatsApp later. What's two hours really? Nobody. Nobody is up at 6am messaging me on WhatsApp, other than the team. But we have clients on the West Coast. It's 3 o'clock in the morning. They're not up. We don't have I don't know if we have any clients in Europe, so nobody's up. What are you smirking about Life?

Alan Lazaros:

It's late. This is yeah, it's 7.59. And you know I'm not up. Yeah well, I know you're not, Although sometimes I'll be up at 3 am. I can't sleep so.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'll message you something, having your warm milk.

Alan Lazaros:

No, no, no, no, no Protein.

Kevin Palmieri:

Protein shake, son. My point of all that is almost none of the behaviors that I have today were behaviors that I didn't have one day and I had all of them the next.

Alan Lazaros:

Thesis. This is my hypothesis, thesis hypothesis which, by the way, maybe those were actually the same thing. I think they might be.

Kevin Palmieri:

That makes sense. Hypothesis no, isn't it theory?

Alan Lazaros:

and hypothesis isn't a thesis, something different like a paper or something well, yeah, I mean the thesis, is the the point of a paper, I think the conclusion of it? Scientific method, it's a whole thing. We're not going to get into it. Okay. However, my hypothesis for this episode anyone out there watching or listening imagine a world where you can change any behavior you want. Behavior you want like that. That is a powerful individual. It's a powerful individual. New year's resolution seriously, okay, I want to start exercising more done. Okay, here's the deal. You're really you're really selling it you know that's a powerful individual.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's a powerful individual. Seriously, seriously think about it, put yourself seriously okay two ways in which we change and we grow.

Alan Lazaros:

You can change your perception or you behave your behavior. Talked about this a lot. I'm having trouble. It's late at night.

Kevin Palmieri:

We just finished group coaching look, kev, you're making me laugh. This is gonna be a fun. This is gonna be a fun episode. I've eaten all my calories for the day. I I'm going to bed after this. I got enough. I'm literally this is it for me. I'm going to bed after this Straight up.

Alan Lazaros:

I still have to exercise and eat. The eating part's awesome, the exercise not so much. Anyways, yes, you can change your perception, yep, or you can change your behavior. One behavior, one of the things that I do want to share with everyone next level, next level nlu indians, next level people out there, next civilization. Seriously, I believe behavior change. Bear with me, bear with me, all right, you gotta pull it together. Pull it together. Behavior change is more important.

Kevin Palmieri:

We used to have something when Alan and I would record in the studio, we would get into these laughing fits and our thing was whatever worked, but mine was, I would grab my thigh and I would pinch it as hard as humanly possible. And that's what I'm going to do right now, and we're going to see how well it works.

Alan Lazaros:

We're going to see how well it works. God, it doesn't feel no laughing.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, so what is your?

Alan Lazaros:

what is your thesis? Okay, if you can get good at behavior change, I believe you increase the chances of you achieving your goals and dreams by a significant margin. You can. It's a skill. Behavior changes a skill.

Alan Lazaros:

Emilia changes behavior very, very quickly. I live with her. So when she draws a new conclusion, she has a new understanding and she sets a new goal. Okay. So, for example, she just got trauma recovery certified. She didn't do any academics for a couple of years and then all of a sudden she has this cohort, she has this class, she has this practical and she just it was part of her routine very, very quickly she literally will say you know, I really need to start journaling more. I feel like I was more centered when I was journaling and then every night and every morning, uh, every night, yeah, and every morning she'll be journaling, every single time. She's very quick, going from new understanding to new behavior. Very quick, quickest I've ever seen.

Alan Lazaros:

There are certain clients that I have that I know will succeed. Here's one of the things that I look for. One is humility, obviously self-belief when we talked about it. But one of the things I look for is how quickly can we go from new strategy to behavior change. I was on with a client earlier shout out to you, cole. We implemented some new habits to his system. I have no doubt that he's going to change very, very quickly. I think behavior change is a skill.

Alan Lazaros:

I started reading a new book Every Sunday. It's kind of my learning day. There's no front facing. We ended up recording Conscious Couples, so I did a little bit of that. But ultimately on Sunday I do a lot of housework, stuff around the house and I try to learn a lot.

Alan Lazaros:

Just bought a new book called reset by Dan Heath how to change what's not working. So number one is identify what's not working. So number one set a goal. Number two identify what's not working. Identify what is working. What's not working has to change. Behavior change is two things you either have to start doing something new or you have to stop doing something that's a bad habit. So for me, quitting drinking Okay. Fitness model, fitness competitor, fitness coach I need to quit drinking. Okay. That took me five years because I kept falling off at weddings. I think that once you get really good at changing your own behavior, I think that's a skill and I think that I feel like changing my behavior now is much easier than it used to be. And one thing I'll say about you too and Kev won't share this necessarily, because he doesn't want to come off as bragging and he doesn't do this behind the scenes either. But one thing I will say about Kev I've coached a lot of people. You change behavior very quickly.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, awareness has always been my issue. I didn't know what my issue was. I never knew what to do. I'm good with doing it. I was on a podcast the other day and they said why do you and Alan work so well together? And I said because he has a lot of awareness and I take action very quickly. So when I get a new awareness, I'm excited Like I get excited.

Alan Lazaros:

But I said that's also do you know how you're doing that, though? Okay, let me ask you a question. There are other people you know that cannot seem to take action, even though they know what to do. Is that fair, for sure? Yeah, why? Why do you think that is like? Why are you so quick to change and they struggle to change?

Kevin Palmieri:

because I think for me, if I don't, I start to, I almost immediately see and recognize the downsides of not changing. It's like man, we just got new clients and they're working with another team until the end of the month and then we're going to take over and there are certain apps and programs that we have access to that I can't use until we take over, and I'm freaking out. I'm so excited by the thought of being able to use them and see what happens. And so I don't I don't know. I get excited. I get very excited for the new opportunity to do something I just learned.

Kevin Palmieri:

And then I think there's a downside if I don't do it fast enough. I mean, there's certain things like I was on a podcast the other day and the guy said I haven't researched this, so don't don't use it as a fact. But he said something along the lines of if you eat, eating too soon before bed screws up your your testosterone production overnight. It's like okay, interesting, I need to research this for myself, but if that's the case, I'm never going to eat within two hours before bed again. That's done. It's not that hard to do hold on, hold on.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, that is what we know as an unconscious competency. Oh, that's done. Don't you know people who can't do that?

Kevin Palmieri:

they know what to do, but they can't do it. They know what to do, but they can't do it. Well, I just wonder if it's not worth it. For me, it's worth it. If I wasn't in this season of fitness, I probably wouldn't react in the same way.

Alan Lazaros:

I feel like there's a lot more to it than that.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm sure there is. You're willing to go through pain, dude, it's uncomfortable as hell to change.

Kevin Palmieri:

I, I don't. Maybe I'm not the best, maybe I'm not the best person to ask, because if it is an unconscious competency, I don't know. I just have so much pain with staying the same. I don't. I'm not really that afraid of change. I just I don't because I think now the change for me is all like within certainty. So it's not like I'm having drastic changes of like I'm going to go to the gym for the first time ever, and that's scary because I've never done it. I'm just going to go at a different time. That's not that big of a. I mean, make my own schedule, that's not that big of a deal.

Alan Lazaros:

Does it frustrate you? There are other people who struggle to change their behavior so much. A lot of people want to exercise and weight train, but they can't get their ass to the gym. Why? Why is it so easy for?

Kevin Palmieri:

you. I don't think they're willing to ask for what they know.

Kevin Palmieri:

Their kryptonite is Like okay, let's say this let's say, right now you're in college and you have three roommates. One of your roommates goes to the gym. If you ask that person, you said hey, next time you go to the gym, are you planning on going to the gym tomorrow? Yeah, I'm planning on going. What time are you planning on going? Probably about eight. Can you give me a heads up like half hour before you want to leave? But when you do that, that actually creates the opportunity for a bigger quote, unquote failure Cause now it's not an invisible failure where you let yourself down. Now you're letting yourself and somebody else down and you're afraid they're going to look at you differently.

Alan Lazaros:

So you're getting leverage on yourself. That's what you're doing. You're stacking the reasons on yourself. That's what you're doing. You're stacking the reasons. It's like, uh, okay. Person a says I want to go to the gym tomorrow. Person b says I want to go to the gym tomorrow. I have my coach gonna text ask me to text him a picture at the gym.

Alan Lazaros:

I have a peak performance partner, gym partner who's waiting there for me, and I also posted it on facebook that I'm going tomorrow and I'm gonna and I'm gonna put the photo on Facebook that I'm going tomorrow and I'm going to put the photo on Instagram. That's a lot of external accountability. Aka, you are getting leverage on yourself.

Kevin Palmieri:

The fitness accountability group is a really good example. If I don't go to the gym, I can't take a picture. So I have to go to the gym. If I don't go to the gym, I'm not going to take a picture of me at the gym.

Alan Lazaros:

You also are humble enough. This is the key. You're humble enough to know you won't do it just for you. I think that's really important.

Kevin Palmieri:

Dude, what was it that I did recently? Just gentle correction. I will do it for me, just not as often. Exactly, I'll do it for me, but it wouldn't be as consistent.

Alan Lazaros:

No way, yeah, agreed. And you're saying that people are either too scared to put themselves in that cage, because that's what you're doing. Your cage is probably the wrong metaphor, but it's almost like you're creating the guardrails to guarantee that you go. I have a client who I think this is very humble of him. He said dude, I'm not going to do that. You got to, you got to do the commitment device. I was like well, what do you mean? He said well, I owe you a hundred, you owe me 125 bucks. So a commitment device is I'm going to charge you double for this session.

Alan Lazaros:

This person was twice a week. That was the price point for the twice a week. I need to make that clear. I'm going to charge you double for this session If I don't do what I promise you and myself that I do, you take that money. And he added something. So he's trying to lower his caffeine count and he's like dude, we got to add it. I don't know if it was caffeine If you're out there listening, by the way, I don't know if it was caffeine or something else but I know recently you said add my commitment device to that thing. You're getting leverage. It's leverage. You don't want to lose money. $100 habit dude. $100 habit is Kev one time said. If I don't go to the gym this week, every day, taryn, you're going to take this $100 bill and rip it up in front of me. You're basically just amplifying the pain of not going.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's the best. So I have weird analogies or weird examples that pop into my head. Okay, this is my thought, this is how I'm not going to say this is how you could go to the gym. Okay, this is how you could start going to the gym five times a week without missing essentially, or it would really really decrease the resistance. Let's say you live somewhere where let's say you live somewhere, hypothetically, where you can't park your car on the street from 6 am till 6 pm. Every day, when you get home from work at6 pm, you park your car on the street because the next day you have to get up at 5 30 and you have to go move your car. Instead of just moving your car, you go to the gym. Problem solved, you're not going to let your car get towed.

Alan Lazaros:

That's the premise of another book by Dan Heath. Shout out to Dan Heath Again. His books are fucking awesome. There's a book behind me called Switch and it's all about behavior change. And he says change the environment. If you change the environment, you'll change the behavior. The metaphor that he uses I don't know if this is yeah they did a study where they took crappy shitty that's the same word, crappy shitty popcorn, double adjective and they did a study where they didn't tell they gave free popcorn, but they they made it terrible on purpose. They give big bowls and small bowls and they found that, even though the popcorn was fucking terrible, the people with the bigger bowls ate more popcorn by like a huge margin. It wasn't that certain people like to eat more popcorn than others. It was so simple to the point where whatever the size of the bowl is statistically makes you eat more popcorn. And so a lot of behavior change comes down to changing the environment.

Alan Lazaros:

I purposely don't put certain triggers in my environment. My whiteboard is you know. It says achiever 0.1% improvement every day for 50 years. I literally have a book on my desk at all times turning the flywheel. It's a trigger, it's a reminder. Alan, don't forget about the flywheel, don't lose momentum. And just to provide context, the compound effect, the snowball effect, the flywheel effect. These are all business principles that we. It basically means don't lose momentum. All this book does is it reminds me to stay at it, keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. Momentum, momentum, momentum. But it's a physical trigger in the physical environment. My water bottle is right here. You'll never see me without a water bottle within an arm's length. Why? Because it's a trigger that reminds me to drink water. And so getting leverage on yourself and setting up your environment for success is absolutely critical for behavior change. Yeah, and I think unconsciously, you and I just got really good at changing our behavior.

Alan Lazaros:

If you want to watch, so emilia, doesn't? We got a? Uh, new projector. She, she bought it for our anniversary. It's awesome. 4k, 115 inches, it's amazing. I'm so grateful I have a home theater. Finally. That was a dream come true. I'm so pumped. I asked her last night. I said, hey, do you want kev to come and take our 83 inch from the bedroom? Like he would come and snag that thing. Look at kev's face right now. What'd she say? Yeah, she said we'll talk about it was too late.

Kevin Palmieri:

We no, that's a no, that's a gentle.

Alan Lazaros:

No rejection no, uh, it might be a yes seriously Put in a good word for me.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm on my way.

Alan Lazaros:

Here's my point of this. First of all, you're going to have to borrow.

Kevin Palmieri:

Don't worry about how I'm going to get it.

Alan Lazaros:

I cover the legit.

Kevin Palmieri:

Don't you even worry about that. I've already thought about that.

Alan Lazaros:

Ever since we first moved in together, we have certain core values. She wants no TV in the bedroom. She wants the bedroom to be for books and for intimacy and for love and for that and candlelight and all that kind of stuff. I'm with her. But I said, until we got the projector I wasn't on board with that. That 83 inch came with the house, the condo. We weren't getting rid of that thing until I had something better.

Kevin Palmieri:

I can help you with the TV, the. We weren't getting rid of that thing until I had something better. I can help you with the TV, the intimacy and the candlelight stuff that ain't for me, but I can come down there and I can make that TV disappear. I'll take it off the wall, I'll do it all.

Alan Lazaros:

I told her too. I said Kev would take care of all the work she's like. Well, who's going to carry that thing?

Kevin Palmieri:

I said I'll help him carry it also older. It's not one of those.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, it's big 3d tv as well, so I don't even know what that means. Yeah, don't worry about it. All right. The point of this is there are certain things emilia doesn't want us to just autopilot to watching tv mindlessly when we're supposed to be connecting and intimate in the bedroom, and so again, at the end of the day, our environment and our house. One more thing changing changing behavior. Work and life have become very integrated, and I know a lot of listeners know that. I mean, in the 21st century, it's your devices are always there. If your phone is your alarm clock, you're probably picking that thing up all the time. Emilia had the idea of okay, our, our offices are upstairs, hers is across the way. We have an upstairs bathroom right outside my office. Thank goodness, because I have the smallest bladder of all time I'm joking, I drink a lot of water.

Alan Lazaros:

but emilia had the idea of let's separate work and home. She said I want to live more in our home. I don't want it to always be work, totally understand. She said let's take the device station, the charge station, bring it upstairs. So after we exercise tonight I'm going to say I'm going to bring our devices up. What does that mean? It means my AirPods and my phone and her AirPods and her phone all go on the charging station and we don't touch them until the next morning when it's time to work again. Don't touch them until the next morning when it's time to work again.

Alan Lazaros:

And the point I'm making about all this is that behavior change is very, very, very difficult and I think that you and I have been working so hard for eight years, since the Hyperconscious podcast, on changing our behavior. I wonder if we underestimate how hard that actually is. And I've been asking you this question kind of off and on for the last eight years because you do you change behavior very quick. Like Kev will decide I'm going to do jujitsu and then he'll just do it for weeks. They're just, oh done, I'm going to do it. And I don't think that that's common dude.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I don't think that's necessarily a good example, because it's something I was excited about. There was very little downside.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, what's something that's really hard to change. Nlu listener, what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

I mean, what time you wake up is really hard. That's a really challenging what time you go to bed can be really challenging.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I don't know For me, maybe I'm just, maybe it's something I'm naturally good at. I don't know For sure, I'm just. Maybe it's something I'm naturally good at, I don't know for sure. I'm thinking of, like right now there are, like, the things that matter most are growing the business and making as much money as possible to reinvest into the business. Getting fucking jacked for sure. Just get jacked, super jacked, which is dieting, and then making sure taryn and I are super connected dieting, weight training, hydration yeah, the weight training and hydration are already happening, same like. I can't tell you how many of these I've had today. It's already happening For me. The behavior, it's one thing. The workouts are essentially the same. They just suck a little more because I'm hungry, right, but I feel like I'm.

Alan Lazaros:

Do you ever wonder why other people don't change quickly?

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, no, I understand. I understand completely why. Because it's hard. Just because I feel like I'm good at it does not mean I don't think it's hard, I just think for me.

Alan Lazaros:

I happen to be. I think there's certain behaviors that are really hard to change for me. What do you got? There's certain things. Getting to bed on time is tough for me. I like I don't like having a bedtime, fucking hate it, to be honest. Okay, question to be honest, okay. Um, waking up on time, as for sure, because they're conflicting habits. I want to get 80. I got an 86 sleep score last night. If my goal it's a goal in conflict, if my goal is to get the best sleep possible for my mind and body, then it's going to be very hard to wake up at 6 am every day, especially if I don't like going to bed on time. Right?

Kevin Palmieri:

if you, if you worked out in the morning I'm not saying do this, but like, yeah, if you worked out in the morning and you finished work at eight and you were done yeah, of course.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah then so, but that's also a goal in conflict, because I don't want to waste my willpower.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't want to invest my best willpower into the gym that's my point, is all of my goals, essentially, are hyper aligned. They're like yeah, everything is very, very right now.

Alan Lazaros:

When you used to coach people, did you struggle to help them be consistent?

Kevin Palmieri:

Uh no, not necessarily because it would. It would be kind of like the commitment device thing Like you're, if you know yourself and you know you struggle doing things on your own. I think there's a lot of shame around that.

Alan Lazaros:

And then, rather than I think some people are just why don't you have shame around that? I know I'm grilling you, but, yeah, why don't you have shame around that? Why are you like, hey, man, make sure I fucking do this? Why do I say that, yeah, why don't you have shame around needing a coach or accountability or Because I want the results.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't necessarily have to be the architect of how I get there.

Alan Lazaros:

Why not Some people want. This is something that's been challenging for me. Some people are either really good at changing perception or really good at changing behavior. When we first met, I was better at changing my mind than I was at changing my behavior. You were better at changing your behavior. It couldn't get you to change your mind, Like your mindset wasn't as powerful as your behavior. You could change behaviors, no problem, but you didn't have a strong mindset. There's other people that I coach that have a very strong mindset but they don't change their behavior as well.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I wonder if that's the detriment of having a strong mindset.

Alan Lazaros:

I think it's very hard to be both. Yeah, you think you can get away with.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, exactly, I don't. I know my behavior is going to dictate my results. I literally had a moment today where I was like I might announce today on the podcast that I'm going to start the 10 pound and 10 week challenge, so I can make sure that I don't miss yeah, I don't think I'm ready there yet, but I've been thinking about it and I've been concerned to announce that because I know once I announce it I'll do whatever I have to do. I I don't.

Alan Lazaros:

I mean even even if it's just for me, I'm not saying I don't have to okay, okay, no, this is just me. Well, you and I didn't talk, so I didn't.

Kevin Palmieri:

I didn't want you to think I was. I was real.

Alan Lazaros:

Oh no, no, that's not it dude, if you wanted to do that, that's all good. I just I'm purposely not doing that because I'm not willing to put myself in that. Yeah, it's like bowling. I'm not willing to put myself in that lane yet because I know that that's going to make my relationship harder. It's going to make my schedule harder. It's going to make one-on-one coaching and training and podcasting harder. Right now, my current run rate dude, I can't. And podcasting harder right now my current run rate dude, I can't it.

Alan Lazaros:

It would be very, very, very challenging for me to have a 10 out of 10 relationship and play at the flywheel that I'm playing right now while also dieting. One of the reasons I can I can handle all of what I'm handling right now is is because I'm eating a shitload of food and you can study willpower. There's a book called Willpower. But when you eat more food, you have more willpower. You're less scarce. So last piece, I know we got to jump, kevin and I use Chachi PT all the time. You know that.

Alan Lazaros:

I asked a question before this episode how long does it take, on average, to build a new habit? Kev, kudos to you. You said 67 days. You were only off by one. The time it takes to build a new habit varies depending on the person, the complexity of the habit and the consistency in practice. However, research suggests on average, it takes 66 days 66 days for a new habit to become automatic. In other words, it takes 66 days on average. It again it depends on the habit, the person, all this to. We all know when it crosses a chasm, when it would be actually more painful not to do the thing than to do the thing, emilia and I were very, very we were super excited.

Alan Lazaros:

We took a picture with the number three up and uh, we, march 1st of 2022, we started a new little fitness streak. It started out as I wanted to beat my old best, which was three and a half months. We got to four months, which was 120 days, and then it was a year and we've been just going 30 minutes every single day intentional exercise walking, running, basketball, soccer, like any sort of intentional. We allocated this time to exercise weight training. Obviously we try to weight train every other day. It Any sort of intentional. We allocated this time to exercise weight training. Obviously we try to weight train every other day. Doesn't always happen, but we are now. We crossed three years of consistent daily exercise.

Alan Lazaros:

It's wild. It has been really hard in some ways and really easy in others. The easy in others is at this point it's not even. It's like it's 825 right now. We're going to go for a walk after this with Tucker and it's so automatic now that it's not nearly as hard as it was in the beginning. Now sometimes it's really hard. Some days are rough. You know, at the end of the day it's definitely not easy.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't want to lessen it, but it's really important that we have each other other how much, how much harder would it be if you didn't have someone to do it with?

Alan Lazaros:

oh, dude, I. I would like to believe that I could do it on my own. I don't think I would do it on my own, and that's the truth. I don't think I would have. I always wanted to exercise every day, dude, I seriously let me rephrase 10 years ago I got really into fitness and I'm talking really into it fitness model, all that stuff, whatever. I had an aspiration, I had a goal. I in my head it was like why wouldn't I exercise every day? I would love to be the type of person who exercises every day. I would love to like. That makes perfect sense to me.

Alan Lazaros:

And I used to read all these books and shout out to john maxwell uh, again, he, he writes really good books. One of his books said the key to your success lives in your daily routine, and I love that quote the key to your success lives in your daily routine. And I remember thinking like why wouldn't I exercise every day? Why wouldn't I? But I never really did it until emilia and I decided to do it together. I would love to believe that I would have gotten to 2 000 episodes on my own. I would love to believe that I'm not certain.

Kevin Palmieri:

Here's what I'm certain of. I'm sure shit, I would so I appreciate the honesty.

Alan Lazaros:

Here's what I'm certain of. It's way fucking easier with you. Yeah, right, so that extra accountability, setting up your environment for success, New Year's resolutions everybody that sets them the very small percentage actually follow through, and I think some of the reasons are because you're basically setting yourself up for failure. Some people start off out of the gate too big. Maybe you don't have supportive people around you that want you to go succeed. Maybe you don't set up your environment and the triggers for success. Maybe your mindset's not strong enough. Maybe you don't have big enough reasons. Maybe you have goals in conflict. And the book Reset is really helping me understand too. I mean, there's a lot at play here. It's not just oh, just go do it. There's a lot underneath it and even when I ask you, it's like yeah, I just do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's like well, Well, I probably never give a presentation on it because I don't know that. I know how I do it. I haven't really studied it. It's just like I just number one. I have a ton of pain associated with not changing my behavior and that was like my like. I didn't know that I had a problem with porn. I knew Every day. I knew.

Alan Lazaros:

Wasn't that really hard to change?

Kevin Palmieri:

Not until the pain. Yes, yes, yes. And it's still hard. I still get triggers. I mean fucking Instagram, Jesus. I know I still get. But now to your point.

Alan Lazaros:

It's like number one, it's not nearly as hard as it was, though Like it's not that hard and again, I never had a. I never identified as that, like seriously, and I'm four years, not a single thing. But like there's certain things that aren't that hard to change for some people, but for me booze like not drinking ever again was hard for me to wrap my head around.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah Well that was the. Mine was porn. That was a legit addiction. I'm certain of that. And again, I don't know what the definition of that is, but it was more than like, yeah, I kind of liked it. No, it was, there was a problem. There was like a problem in my brain. For you I think that was alcohol. But I'll tell you this, One of the big reasons, One of the big reasons that I try really hard to change a negative behavior and then really really think about it and then talk about it on the podcast, is because if something happens, I'll never be able to talk about it on the podcast again.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, leverage, you're really good at getting leverage against yourself.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's what it is.

Alan Lazaros:

But it's uncomfortable.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's. The thing is like I had that moment today of, okay, I'm going to go here and we're going to do an episode at some point whether it's tonight or this week where I'm going to say, all right, I'm starting a 10-pound in 10-week challenge. It doesn't mean you have to do that. If you're interested in maybe gaining some weight, cool, you could do that. If you just want to be more consistent in the gym, awesome, I'll reach out to me. You could join the fitness accountability group. And then I said but that takes the required amount of commitment and intention to a new level that I don't know if I really want to do. Yep, that I think the best answer, and this is the best answer I have. Again, I'm sure there's research and there's other stuff out there the pain of not doing the thing has to be greater than the pain of doing it.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, facts I think that for me, the pain of not doing it is way greater than the the pain of doing it. Yeah, facts I think that for me, the pain of not doing it is way greater than the actual pain of doing it, if it's not cool, great example.

Alan Lazaros:

Pain on the side of that gives you leverage.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know what. You know what you get pissed at not really pissed, but you know you get pissed at me, for I never change my bios when we go from 1850. You know why pain's not great enough. I don't care. I know If you said to me Kev, if you don't change your bio at the beginning of the month, I'm taking $500 from your bank account. I would never miss. I know, the pain's just not great enough. That's all, 100%.

Alan Lazaros:

Last piece, I had a client who does fitness shows and he's competing again, he's going to nationals and he's like, dude, you should do a fitness show. And I was like, eh, yeah, no. I was like, yeah, yeah. He's like I'm like, well, what do you mean? He's like, well, you should compete. You know, you'll be more motivated in the gym. I said, I know, I know, but I'm afraid to do another fitness show.

Alan Lazaros:

Now I would love to do one, however I'm I know that, yes, it would increase my motivation in fitness. It would increase my motivation to get a six pack back, eight pack back. It would increase my motivation to hydrate more, sleep better. I'll, yeah, but that time and effort, those resources are going to be forced to put back into fitness and that's going to I'm going to have to take those out of the business. I'm going to have to take those out of my relationship with Amelia. I'm gonna have to take those out of the business. I'm gonna have to take those out of my relationship with Amelia. I'm gonna have to take that out of being a good pet dad. I'm gonna have to take that out of taking care of this house. So, yeah, it'll dial up my motivation and increase my pain with not weight training consistently and only doing every other day instead of five days a week like I used to.

Alan Lazaros:

However, I'm not trying to do that and I think that a lot of people with a mindset like his and again I respect it but like he, is doing 12 things at level 10. And I think that at times that can get reckless, and I've been there, I've tried to do it in the past and I think that this is the value of priorities too, because you heard Kev, I'm trying to get in really good shape, I'm trying to have a really good relationship with Taryn and I'm focused on growing the business. If you had 10 more focuses, you'd have a really hard time changing. You know how many goals in conflict you'd have If I did a fitness competition conflict you'd have If I did a fitness competition dude that would take. That would be a goal that is conflicting with all my other priorities right now coaching, training, podcasting. So it made sense when I was a fitness model and a fitness coach and I had a fitness brand, but that's not where we're at right now, and so one of the other reasons people aren't good at changing their behaviors because they have these goals that are in conflict.

Alan Lazaros:

If you have a goal that you set that requires you to never take a trip and you love adventure, I mean good luck staying consistent, right? So Emilia and I literally take virtual hikes with our projector every freaking morning because in the winter we're not able to hike as much. And she loves to hike every freaking morning because in the winter we're not able to hike as much, and she loves to hike. We literally do. There's 4K virtual hikes on YouTube and she'll wake up to the 115 inch oh my God, where are we today? Redwood Forest and that kind of thing. So there's ways to integrate all these things. And if you're out there and you're struggling to change your behavior, there's a lot more to it. And if you need help, please reach out, because I'll tell you what I'm good at helping people align with their goals for sure, and I'm also good at identifying when they have goals that are not good together.

Kevin Palmieri:

What's your? What's your takeaway? What's your? What do we want to call it? I need a name for it oh yeah, next level takeaway I need an l. It needs to be an N-L-L.

Alan Lazaros:

Next level lesson. You like it. I love next level lesson. I've always been a fan.

Kevin Palmieri:

All right, what's your next level lesson?

Alan Lazaros:

My next level lesson is yeah, identify whether or not you're good at changing your mind or changing your behavior. Everyone's better at one or the other. I think I'm better at changing my mind than I am at my behavior, but I do think I'm working hard on both.

Kevin Palmieri:

My next level lesson would be be very honest about the downside of not doing it. Don't beat yourself up, don't fall into a shame cycle. I'm not saying that, that, but I think there was a book that you recommended. It was one of the jim collins books and they were talking about don't make the situation worse than it is, but like, look at the reality of the situation, yeah, right. Like, don't, don't send yourself into doom, but be honest with with it. I think that would be super helpful. This is the truth. Yeah, if you don't get eight hours of sleep tonight, it's not that big of a deal. If you get six hours of sleep tomorrow, it's not the end of the world. If you get five hours of sleep the day after that, eh, it's not the end of the world.

Kevin Palmieri:

If you do that over and, over and over, for the foreseeable future, you, the foreseeable future you're going to regret that one day, 100%. I'm trying to think about that. So again, I know we've talked about my marijuana chronicles over the years. I don't know if I can ever smoke weed again because I think I'll regret it eventually. So when I do want to, I think of that. It's like well, kev, is this moment of dopamine worth whatever potential regret comes after. Now I still love my edibles, but if something comes out and I see some data on the fact that that's terrible for you, I'm going to have to reevaluate. Unfortunately, it's okay to look at the downside as long as you're willing to face that and maybe do something about it. So again, I don't know. I think this is something that comes fairly unconsciously to me, but I also have a lot of pain in the past from not changing behaviors. On a scale of 0 to 10, how bad do you have to pee?

Alan Lazaros:

right now, Definitely it's an 8. An 8 out of 10? Headed up.

Kevin Palmieri:

The dude is fidgeting For those who are just listening, alan gets very fidgety, smallest bladder in the game. Well, I drink a lot of water. I drink a lot of water too. I've had. How many of these have I had today? I don't know. Several.

Alan Lazaros:

What is this? 32?

Kevin Palmieri:

ounces Six, I'd be dead.

Alan Lazaros:

Six times 32.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's 196 ounces of water. That's a lot.

Alan Lazaros:

It's more than a gallon, 128 ounces for a gal.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it's a lot of water, all right, something like that.

Alan Lazaros:

Doing a gallon a day. Gallon a day keeps the muscles away.

Kevin Palmieri:

Keeps the muscles growing At bay. Well, at bay is bad too. Keeps them okay. A gallon a day keeps the muscles okay. I don't know. I probably have three or four of these. I have 16 ounces with my pre-workout, then I have probably 16 ounces of coffee. Yeah, I'm probably around Now.

Alan Lazaros:

You're just stalling so I don't get to go.

Kevin Palmieri:

No, no, you asked me. I had to answer All right, next Elvination if you have not gotten your Dreamliner, we'll have the link in the show notes below again. If one of the behaviors you're trying to change is you want to journal more, I think one of the best ways to do that is to start very small. That is what the Dreamliner is designed for. It's not going to take you 45 minutes to journal. It'll take you 5 minutes depending on how long you do it. That's, that's a really good way to change your behavior.

Alan Lazaros:

And there's a next level lesson right in there. There you go Next level lesson right at the bottom. Every day you can have your own next level lesson.

Kevin Palmieri:

So that'll be in the show notes. Tomorrow is our meetup Free virtual meetup 5 pm to 6 pm Eastern Time, and then Next Level Live 2025 is April 5th. I know we got a lot of stuff going on right now. It's like a very busy season. Everything you need to know is at the website nextleveluniversecom. All that happy jazz. Anything you want to say before we?

Alan Lazaros:

go. That's it, man. Okay, cool Rock and roll.

Kevin Palmieri:

As always, we love you, we appreciate you. Grateful for each and tomorrow, keep it next level, next level nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level.

Alan Lazaros:

University. We love connecting with the Next Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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