Next Level University

How To Help People “See You” More Accurately (2008)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In this episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan break down why feeling unseen is so common and what you can do about it. They discuss the power of vulnerability, why people project their values onto others, and how effective communication can help you be understood. You’ll hear real-life stories, personal insights, and practical strategies to express your needs without feeling judged. If you’ve ever struggled to feel valued for who you truly are, this conversation will give you the tools to change that.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

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Show notes:
(2:29) The challenge of expressing your needs
(4:26) How people misinterpret your priorities
(8:02) The struggle between uniqueness & belonging
(15:39) A simple approach to being understood
(21:29) When people try to help but don’t understand
(23:52) Join Next Level Live: A virtual, immersive event for those committed to growth, meaningful relationships, and a life they love. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/
(26:27) Identifying what feeling unseen means to you
(36:57) Why “agree to disagree” doesn’t work in close relationships
(41:28) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

One of the hardest parts about feeling seen by other people is most likely the fact that you have to first see yourself and you have to appreciate yourself and you have to admit what actually matters to you and until you do that, it's probably going to be really hard for anybody else to actually see you and for you to feel like they understand you at a very deep level.

Alan Lazaros:

I've never coached anyone who doesn't want to be valued by others. But in order to be valued, you first have to be seen and understood. And what I've found, myself included, is that that requires vulnerability. It requires you to be honest and open about your strengths and your weaknesses. It requires you to open up and connect and share your actual experiences, share your actual fears, share your goals, share your core values. Now you have to be careful with that, because if you overshare, that's a problem. But you can't be mad that people don't value you and understand you or see you while you simultaneously are hiding who you really are. So it takes courage and I empathize with that, because social courage, I think, is like the hardest thing in the entire world Vulnerability- is a requirement for sure.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University, where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today for episode number 2008,. How to help people see you more accurately. You and I were talking behind the scenes and we were talking about I don't remember where it came from, but we were talking about feeling seen and I said I think we should do an episode on this, because I don't know if this was really my experience, but you can probably speak to this better than I.

Kevin Palmieri:

One of the hardest parts is showing people how to see you. So I think we all we all wish that people could imagine how we're feeling. So it's like, oh, I really wish Alan would see me in this moment, but if I haven't sat down with Alan and I haven't said hey, man, sometimes when you say this, it kind of I don't know. It feels like you're whatever, you're not respecting me, or it feels like you're babying me or whatever it is. You're never going to know how I feel seen. And I think that's one of the hardest things is, we can wait for somebody to do it forever, but how do they know? They don't know how we're feeling and nobody's really going to be able to read your mind, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what kind of weird shit you think about on the weekends. So that's my thesis.

Alan Lazaros:

You and I were talking offline earlier and I was talking about a person I've coached in the past who has a therapist and this is a mutual friend and all that and essentially they felt very unseen at one point. I'll keep it all anonymous always, but I was talking to Kev about how everyone is different in their core values, goals we that in the last episode, but also their core wound, their deepest fear. So this person that I'm referring to to provide context is very. They love their career. There's certain people who are more career oriented than others. Fair 100.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, this person is very career oriented, very, very, very, and that I am too. So I appreciate. I see her, I see you in that. I see you and I feel seen by you in that people always say things like well, there's more to life than work, and it's like, yeah, but that's not what I need to hear, but that's what the other person thinks you need to hear, because they think I work too much. Well, that's what? Because that's what the other person thinks you need to hear, because they think I work too much.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, that's what? Because that's what they think they would need to hear.

Alan Lazaros:

Exactly, exactly, and that is the base problem of why relationships struggle. This is the base problem. Everyone is struggling with humility, courage or vulnerability. Then we feel unseen, vulnerability, then we feel unseen, then we get frustrated, which then causes problems. But the reason we're feeling unseen is because we don't understand how different the other person actually is.

Alan Lazaros:

But how could we if we're not vulnerable and honest about it? So, for example, if Kev were to say Alan, come on, there's more to life than work, I'd be like brother, you know that I want to do more, not less. Right, like my issue, you're not. You're trying to solve a problem, you're. You're presupposing you know me, you're presupposing you know my problem and you're presupposing you know a solution, which, again, I have done in the past as well with people who don't like work. Okay, so the really important piece here and to bring it back to this original story, this person, who is a type A achiever, who loves work, her career means the world to her, was her therapist said well, you know there's more to life than work, right? And she came to me with that and said yeah, I don't know if it's the right fit, I don't feel like she understands me, I don't feel like she gets me, I said no, she just isn't the same type as you. For her, she doesn't live to work, she works to live. This person lives to work, and most people would put me in that category as well. Right, some people work to live and other people live to work. The live to workers are the achiever type A types who usually have high self-belief and they love their career and they probably have some sort of a calling and they design their world around their career a lot more than other people. And then people who work to live, they design their world around family and quality time and that kind of thing, and we're all both. But we have a different syntax. Right, I work first, live second. Kevin lives first, work second. Not lately, I try, yeah, but at the end of the day, I think that all of us, and kevin and I I'm very grateful for this, because I don't think I would have understood a lot of this if it wasn't for me working with you, because in the past people would you think too much, you work too much, you too much, too much, too much too much too much. You ever just relaxed, you ever just. It's like you think too little, you work too little, all of us are just projecting, yeah, right.

Alan Lazaros:

From my perspective, the person who is telling me I think too much, they think not enough In my opinion, they were people tell me you shouldn't work so much. I'm thinking you should work more seriously, right, but that's all based on our own uniqueness, but we're all kind of hiding our uniqueness, because what makes us unique takes away belonging, and I think human beings at their base and I give this to Emilia, not me. If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, there is one thing that I do believe she believes Maslow didn't touch on enough, which is belonging. I think that human beings crave belonging at the deepest level, and I think that that's why we're a tribal species and that's why we identify I'm an achiever, well, I'm not. Okay. Well, I'm a Republican, I'm a Democrat, I'm a this religion, I'm. That. It's all tribal and I'm not getting into any of that.

Alan Lazaros:

But what I will say is that it takes humility to say okay. And this has been hard for me too, because all the people who were trying to tell me I'm too much, I'm too much, I think too much, I work too much, I was trying to tell them well, you're not going to be successful if you don't work more or think more Like aren't you worried about your future, aren't you concerned? But that was me taking everything from my own lens. So everyone's looking from their own lens and everyone's afraid to not belong, and so we hide the parts of us that are different, so that we can coexist and get along. But that's actually the problem, because then we all feel unseen. It's this whole thing.

Kevin Palmieri:

I feel like we try to give people the prescription that we think we would need for that problem, because I don't, what else would you do? How else would you do it? You don't, what else would you do? How else would you do it? You don't know. Yeah, and there was a time where I didn't, I didn't understand, I could not possibly fathom somebody who would rather work than anything else. I just why I didn't understand.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, this is the best part about this podcast, in my opinion. Talk to me about your perspective on that now, because I couldn't possibly fathom not wanting to focus on my career.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, but I think fulfillment is a really big piece of it that doesn't get talked about enough, because it fulfills you. You would be fulfilled if you didn't do it. That.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know if I would be unfulfilled if I didn't do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

You would be unfulfilled if you didn't Didn't, I say you wouldn't be fulfilled. I'm fulfilled. If you didn't, didn't I say you wouldn't be fulfilled. I'm not sure. I think I said a double negative. So, in fairness, that's not proper english. I'm not sure it's all good.

Kevin Palmieri:

I can imagine that there probably, unfortunately, are some people that will never fully be understood by all the people. They want to see them. I can imagine that's probably unfortunately going to be the case, because if what fulfills you is the opposite, is seemingly the opposite of what fulfills me. That's when you get like your life must be pretty boring, don't you ever do anything? You guys go on vacations, or you have a successful business. You guys work a lot. You must go on vacation, or no. Okay, you go out to dinner, I don't go. You like order food. Okay, your life sounds boring compared to the life that I aspire to. So now it makes sense, because you're fulfilled and I know you're fulfilled, but I'm also fulfilled and I wasn't fulfilled before, so I couldn't imagine how you could possibly be fulfilled by doing that 100%, and this is one of the things, too, of I had a.

Alan Lazaros:

who was it? There was someone recently, several months ago, there was someone who said I just feel bad for you. Like you don't have a lot of friends. And I remember thinking to myself don't feel bad for me. My life's better than yours, and I'm not trying to be unkind. Let me really unpack this for a second. I want this person to flourish. I am a huge fan of this person, but I remember thinking don't feel bad for me this is what I want but even that's the life that I want.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is all by design. Is your life? When you say and I know you don't mean I am more fulfilled than her.

Alan Lazaros:

Yes, for sure, for sure. Do you think that? But I don't think she'd be fulfilled with my life that's not what I'm saying, right, right, what?

Alan Lazaros:

I what, but? But again that I'm glad you unpacked that because I need to make sure I bring the below the iceberg, because I feel like out of context things can be taken really poorly and I don't want that to happen. So this person I coached for uh, five months, six months, something like that and we decided to part ways because my coaching is extremely goal oriented and she wanted to go a different road. Totally fine, I actually think that that's a good idea. I think that was kind of my idea too, and she agrees and she might be listening, by the way, if you're out there. But I remember thinking to myself and I said this to her. I said I don't want you to don't feel bad. I don't want to do anything else. Like don't feel bad for me. I'm healthy, happy, productive, wealthy. I'm like fulfilled. Don't feel bad, please. And I remember there's a time in the past too, but again from her lens if she didn't have any friends like me, she'd be very upset by that. That's like by design. I remember I had more friends than I could count in the past. That that was very unfulfilling for me. It was too much. It was. It was obnoxious. Quite frankly, it was alarmingly bad for me. So this is kind of my point Everyone is looking from their own lens.

Alan Lazaros:

In CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, they talk about how everyone has a paradigm and everyone has a core belief, and the core belief is what creates core values and goals basically Fears and desire. So if Kevin's deepest fear was growing up, he didn't have money Okay, his desire is to be wealthy. Okay, so our desires are in the opposite direction of our fears. Okay. So in the past, my fear was being alone and being abandoned. So therefore I'm going to have as many friends as possible. And then you overswing that and you go. Oh my God, this is not sustainable. This is terrible, I feel. I feel like I've lost myself. Then your fear becomes having too many friends and not reaching your potential and being at everyone's barbecue and not having your own self. Losing yourself becomes my fear. So after my car accident, losing myself became my fear. Okay, well then, what's my goal? Always stay true to me. Fear. Okay, well then, what's my goal? Always stay true to me.

Alan Lazaros:

So to bring this back full circle here, this person I remember I felt very unseen. It was like why would you feel bad for me? I'm extremely fulfilled. And there was someone in my past, way early on. I'll say my mom, my mom. I remember her saying I was the most happy, healthy and productive I had ever been, ever in my entire life. And she said wow, I really hope you don't get hit by a bus.

Alan Lazaros:

And I remember I shared this story not long ago and I remember thinking, mom, I'm the happiest I've ever been. I don't want to do anything else. She's like well, I would just hate for you to put on all this work and not have it work out. And I remember thinking for me I would have wanted you to be unhappy if I got hit by a bus before Because I hadn't lived yet Right. But again, this is really important for myself, kevin and everyone, and this is, I think, what real maturity is. And, trust me, I screwed this up for such a long time. I feel like I didn't have this figured out at all until my 30s well, how do?

Kevin Palmieri:

how does somebody let's let's do a couple answers on this how does somebody effectively communicate how they would like to be seen? Just real quick, behind the scenes. Again, alan and I are always having mini and or moderate sized midlife crises, fairly often Like probably too often, more often than recommended, I would say. But we want to get back to tangible takeaways. So every episode, the goal is to what is the thing that maybe you're going through, or Alan's going through, or I'm going through, or a client's going through, or one of our friends is going through that we can pick as a topic and then add value to and you can leave with tactical answers. That's our goal. So I'm trying to keep us to that and I feel like if I say it publicly, I'm more likely to stick to it.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, agreed, I love that we do that. I love that we bring people in behind the scenes.

Kevin Palmieri:

I've always liked that BTS. So, yeah, what is the easiest? The easiest way to express how you want to be seen.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, number one is identify where you feel unseen, of course, and number two is have the courage to share that with the other person, and if it's someone who is humble and a good person, they will be. Oh, I had no idea give me the how.

Kevin Palmieri:

How do you share?

Alan Lazaros:

give me that bite the bullet. You know, I I always have. Uh. Emilia says oh, here we go get out the list. She's playful with it because I have so many areas where it's like, okay, I'll give you one example and then I'll give you a how. The how is just bite the bullet. My opinion I was being spot yesterday by emilia. I did 185 for six and she'll grab the bar too fucking quick, oh can't do that now again she's newer to bodybuilding and I love her to death.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't. I get it. I completely get it. We sign language. I haven't taught her this okay, so this is unfair to her and I know that, and I'm not mistreating emilia on any level. She would be the first one to tell you that now, that said inside, when I'm pushing 185 for six, which for me, despite kevin's face right now, is actually a good PR for me Zero judgment PR in my 30s.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm doing decade PRs. Now it's a PR for me lately, which is good. I have a frustration with that, where I feel unseen because I've asked her to not touch the bar, but she is very scared of the bar falling on me. Sweetheart, we're good. I could probably get three freaking more honestly if I really had to. Okay, I'd probably tear my shit, but you get it, you'd survive.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I'd survive now.

Alan Lazaros:

Um, don't save me, I got this, I can do it. Right, don't touch the bar. So, anyways, how do you do it? I would identify. Okay, I feel a little she thinks I'm too weak to put this up. She's kind of babying me a little bit, which please don't in the gym. Okay, I got this and I've told her in the past how to spot me and she's not doing a very good job in my opinion, and again she still is, all things considered. But boom, boom, boom, boom. And then my deepest fear underneath that fear, fear, fear, fear, fear is she's going to hold back my progress.

Alan Lazaros:

And emilia and I have a very unique relationship where we promise each other we will never hold each other back. So she, where she feels unseen with the pets or with this, or she has to take care of this and I she can't work late, but I can all this stuff she feels like I'm holding her back. I feel like she's holding me back, boom, boom. We share it vulnerably, which that's why I say bite the bullet.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm never gonna want to bring that up. There's never gonna be a good time where I'm like hey, by the way, the other night, love, I didn't really like how you spotted me. I have to share it on the car at home and that's courage and vulnerability. Now I'm not gonna come at her and say, hey, I really like entitled. I I told you six times to spot me like that. That's toxic and stupid For any men out there, by the way, don't do that, it's dumb. But you can say sweetheart, I just feel a little bit unseen because I've asked you in the past not to grab the bar and I feel like that happened again tonight. Just a little data point for you in the future.

Kevin Palmieri:

Let it kill me moving forward. Yeah, moving forward, good Question, and we're going to go deep. Okay, this just came to me Now again, emilia is super strong, so this might not be the case. Is there any part of it that could be? She grabs the bar early because she's afraid if she doesn't grab it early, she's not going to be able to help you.

Alan Lazaros:

Yes, that is the fear, which I respect and and understand. So she probably feels unseen in that, which is why these conversations are so powerful assuming assuming you are respectful and kind in them.

Alan Lazaros:

Frustrations are important to share when they're small, because they build up, and then that's when big fights happen. And now I'm talking from the conscious couple's lens. I've been coaching couples for four years and you really can ruin relationships very quickly if you're not careful. But real quick. I tried to explain this to her and this is why you have to bring these things up, Because otherwise you'll never get to the root cause, like you just did. She said that. She said well, I'm afraid I won't be able to lift it. And I said well, I'm afraid I won't be able to lift it. And I said sweetheart, what you don't understand is the math. I may not be able to do 185 for that last rep, but when you lift 20 pounds off it, it's going to be easy. But that's a bodybuilding thing.

Kevin Palmieri:

No one teaches that Well, and I think it's an experience thing too. Well, you know, even if you did pinkies, I'm going gonna put it up, no problem, yeah, but but you, I mean, I've spotted a lot of people right. I'm sure the first time I've spotted some people that were very strong, and it's like you're gonna be able to get this right like you're you know what I mean?

Alan Lazaros:

you're not gonna need me. If you don't, I can't. Yeah, you're gonna fucking die. Yeah, I'm not the one I'm not.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm five foot four, like I'm. I don't have the leverage, the way my, the way my height is set up. I'm not going to do this. I've noticed that both Taryn and I tend to respond really well to just direct just hey, when you did that, it made me I felt a certain way. Can we talk about it? That's usually how it goes. I'm not nearly as transparent when it comes to Taryn and I's conversations, just because Taryn's not as public as Alan and Emilia, so I always want to respect her privacy. But yeah, usually it's that and it's usually like in the moment of hey, when this happened, I felt this way and that kind of hurt, and that always de-escalates it because it's like, oh my goodness, you feel a certain way based on something that I said or did. Okay, let's explore what that means. Almost Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, I will.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm gonna. I do think the unfortunate truth is there are some people that will never fully see you. I don't know if they can. I've had so many conversations with people when, like even my mom I love my mom been very supportive of this mission, very supportive. I'll go down and I'll see my mom and my grandmother and she'll be like how's business? It's like I can't even keep up. I'm so overwhelmed. She's like we got to slow down, like there's more to life than work. It's like I know, I understand, I understand, but that's. I'm not saying it because I'm looking for a strategy. I'm not even saying it because I'm looking for support. I'm just saying it because I you asked. If you didn't ask, I wouldn't have said anything. It's just. That's just kind of how it is. I don't know.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know what would I say Right, that's one thing. There's a client I'm thinking of right now. You know who you are If you're out there watching. She runs a business. Her partner does not. He seems like the man Huge fan, seems like a great partner. It seems like it's going to be her forever partner, which I'm excited for.

Alan Lazaros:

I've been coaching this person for years, this person for years. And he said something along the lines of well, do you okay, you're struggling with that, like, do you want to do some like budgeting? And she was like dude, I've been running a fucking company for the last decade, like I know how to budget. You know what I mean. But how could he know? And I said to her I said this I said well, what does he think you do? And she's like well, I don't really tell him the ins and outs of the inventory and all. I'm like well, he has no clue, right, professional fighters understand what it takes to be a professional fighter. Business owners understand what it takes to be a business owner. If Kevin came to me and he said I'm really just a little overwhelmed man, I'm not going to say, hey, work less, the dumbest idea ever?

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it's usually that's not the way, unfortunately, for me.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, the truth is, that's not what you need to hear, right, but how I have to understand Kevin. I have to understand Kevin's context and his circumstance and his goals in order to actually advise him in a way that is sound. And I was guilty of this all the time in the past. People would say, well, I want to do this. And I'd say, okay, well, this is how you do it, and they'd say, well, I don't want to do that. And I'd be like, oh so you just want goals.

Kevin Palmieri:

Next Level Nation. Want goals Next Level Nation. We are very, very excited to announce that we are doing our first purely virtual Next Level Live. On April 5th 2025, from 10 am to 4 pm Eastern Standard Time, alan and myself will be live streaming from Worcester, massachusetts, next Level.

Alan Lazaros:

Live 2025. Live streaming from Worcester, Massachusetts, Next Level Live 2025. Be there. It's only $47 for a full day of personal development, self-improvement, holistic health, wealth, life and love.

Kevin Palmieri:

We have a global audience. Obviously, if you live somewhere else in the world, it's hard to come across the country or across the world for a one-day event, so we wanted to make sure it was accessible to everyone.

Alan Lazaros:

You're not going to get to the next level of your life by default. You're going to get there by design. Join us, design that next level.

Kevin Palmieri:

We've had that discussion many times. Yes, I think most people. If you don't know what it's going to take to get the goal, you set the goal and then somebody provides you with let's say it's an accurate roadmap, and then you look and you say that's a lot more miles than I expected to travel. I think I'll go to a different place.

Alan Lazaros:

So yeah, no.

Kevin Palmieri:

I feel you. I feel you, I do, I feel you. I think the hard part about this is okay, you have the awareness. All right, this is how I feel, seen. These are the things I value, these are my core beliefs, my core values. Okay, awesome, cool, awareness got it. Then there's the communication, but I don't know, I feel like this is always hard because there's a piece of me that has empathy for a lack of understanding, because, at the end of the day, a person can only add value to the level they understand the problem. So that's why my mom says well, you've got to take care of yourself. Yeah, I understand.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's the layer of productivity and business understanding and you're doing your best to add value and there's some truth to it.

Alan Lazaros:

You've got to take care of the asset. There's some truth to it. However, you feel unseen because but I don't really yeah, well it, however, for sure. You feel unseen because but I don't really yeah, well, exactly, but that's because you filter it through her lack of understanding what that's what I was actually like.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think that's kind of what, yeah, empathy to me means in this situation is I'm not saying you, you don't, or you do get frustrated with people. I think I have a pretty positive relationship because I haven't felt unseen for most of my life when somebody like you or somebody out there who's a super high achiever, who's had really big goals their whole life, you've probably felt if you're type A, maybe you've felt unseen for a lot longer than I have Full disclosure. I can only imagine what it's like.

Alan Lazaros:

And we make it worse by not being honest about what we actually want. Like I had a mom who's a type A super achiever multimillionaire who I coached and she said I can't tell these other moms that I care about my career as much as I do my kids. They'll ostracize me from the group. And I remember thinking I wish I had a mom who cared about her career more, because I would have needed someone to lead by example. I think that's the coolest thing ever and, by the way, this person's a better mom than half the moms I know.

Kevin Palmieri:

But even that is you through your lens. That's a great point.

Alan Lazaros:

But she is. That's what's so hard. She actually is, though, Even through other people's lenses.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think no, no, I mean the I wish I had. I know.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's why it gets so wonky.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it's. This is the base of why humans hurt each other right here. Yeah, it's a lack of understanding and I know it's not always, it's not always intentional. I think most often Taryn's mom will come over and it's like are you? It's Saturday? She's like, yeah, you know it. She's like, oh man, and I know what she's thinking, like I understand. Every time I come here, every time you come here, I'm working, no matter when it is. I'm not avoiding you, I promise, I am working Like I'm in the office.

Kevin Palmieri:

Taryn's in the office playing Angry Birds. Yeah, I guess I'll get another game in. Pops stayed last week. He stayed with us for a week.

Alan Lazaros:

Who's Pops?

Kevin Palmieri:

for the new listeners my father-in-law, pops Nice, it was the busiest week we've had. I mean, we worked till 9 o'clock, like three nights in a row. That's brutal, and I was like Pops. I'm sorry, I swear I'm not avoiding you, but he's completely understanding. They know you need to work less. It's just he doesn't really care, which I love.

Kevin Palmieri:

But again, I think one is you have to figure out what is your relationship with feeling unseen. I don't have that bad of a relationship with it, so it doesn't really bother me that much. I'm not worried about dimming and pretending to be somebody. I'm not. Sometimes it's easier for me just to say yeah, you know, I'll be able to take more of a break after things slow down a bit, because that's somewhat true. I'm not gonna be working till nine o'clock every night, but you have to pick and choose your battles, some people. It's not worth. It's not worth it. It depends. It depends depends on who it is. I don't like.

Kevin Palmieri:

Okay, you're at the grocery store and you go to pick something up and it's mislabeled, like are you going to go tell somebody? Maybe not. If you're going to buy the thing you are, though, you're not going to pay $27 for a thing that's supposed to cost $2.70. That's when it's worth it. There's more necessity. I don't know. This is a really hard thing, because I think the unfortunate truth is some people just aren't going to be able to see you fully, but I think it's the people that are willing to try that know. Maybe they don't know how. Yet that's what it is Humility.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's a really good part, I think, and really that's a really good part, I think and that's a really good place to live. If you have that person, that's the one that's worth trying to work through it with for sure.

Alan Lazaros:

It requires humility to admit that you don't know like I. I every now and then there'll be these moments with people where it's like wait a minute, are you like coaching me on something that I'm leagues ahead of you in right now, and but they don't know that. And that's what that happens in my head. I say that in my head. Yeah, it's like wait, I've been. No, no, I'm struggling in that, but I'm ahead of you. That that. But they couldn't know that because they think I'm struggling because I said I'm struggling and that's why this is where it's like you have to pick and choose vulnerability.

Alan Lazaros:

Yep, see, if I'm vulnerable with Emilia, she knows that just because I'm struggling so, for example, I'm struggling to do mobility that doesn't mean I couldn't do it tomorrow, forever If I decided. That sounds arrogant, but someone who actually thinks I'm struggling with with consistency. I'm like whoa, wait a minute. I'm what. I'm very consistent on the things I choose to be, but I don't want to pretend to be on some high horse if I'm consistent at everything I want. So this is one of the reasons why vulnerability is so hard, because the moment you're vulnerable now, some people take that the wrong way and they think they can come and help you with that thing. But if you're not vulnerable, you'll never be seen.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah. Being human is hard. I imagine if I was like a rock, things would be pretty easy. People would throw me around, skip me across the pond a few times. Life would be not bad, not terrible, all things considered, all things considered.

Alan Lazaros:

If you want to be seen, understood and and valued, you can only be seen, understood and valued to the extent that the other person understands you and has experienced what you've experienced, and that is predicated on your level of courage and vulnerability to actually share that. Kevin. Kevin said to me many times he's like I would have never known you were struggling at all, like you seem it humanizes.

Kevin Palmieri:

You're fine all the time.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, I don't know it's. You make it look easy, but it doesn't mean it is, but if you tell me.

Kevin Palmieri:

If you never tell me it's not, then it will. To me it will be the way it looks, right? Oh, it's always going to be how I see it versus how you feel it, unless you tell me how you feel it, and then maybe I see it differently.

Alan Lazaros:

There was one time where Kev hey, have you considered the syntax of your habits? That's the problem.

Kevin Palmieri:

Your habits are off. I can help you. Let me get in there, let me get under the hood, let me move some stuff around.

Alan Lazaros:

I said Kev, with all due respect, man, I was the one six years ago, seven years ago now, who said hey, do you want to track five habits?

Kevin Palmieri:

He's like, yeah, fuck that Very quickly I was like no, no, fair Fair, play man Fair. But I think that I am a natural solver. Even today, even when you were talking about the mobility thing, in my head it was like oh yeah.

Alan Lazaros:

Is there anything I could say that would yeah. But again, I have to be honest. And this is the other thing too. You want to know why no one thinks I struggle because I don't. I could easily just say well, I could do mobility if I wanted, but that's not relatable. How the hell am I supposed to?

Kevin Palmieri:

So again it's You're in a different bucket.

Alan Lazaros:

For sure that's different. One thing that I definitely struggle with is understanding what it's like to not believe in yourself, to not really want to orient your life around work. So the more unique you are, the harder it's going to be to empathize and understand other people. So you're going to have to have extra humility to just say you know what, I know that I don't know, and I think that that's a good place to start. It's just I know, I don't know what it's like to struggle with that, and I think that sometimes helps people feel seen because anxiety, for example. It's like I remember Amelia saying one time she said well, I struggled with anxiety. I said, sweetheart, I know you been with you for five years. No, you don't, not to the extent that they mean it, but that takes time and that's why, when we're young, we all hurt each other. Dude kids are so mean to each other. Oh yeah, it's brutal to watch because they're so unaware of the different core wounds. They're so unaware.

Alan Lazaros:

I was doing a marathon around a track with these young girls. Uh, they were. They were, I was doing a marathon and they were playing soccer. They were playing soccer. They hit me with the ball, by the way, and I was struggle bus. I like could not even handle it. It was a terrible marathon. First half marathon was easy. Last half was horrible. It doesn't matter. The point is they were so mean to each other. I was just listening because I had nothing else to do. My AirPods died, my music was gone, all this stuff. They were so fucking mean to each other. It was like they were ripping each other a new one, like oh, and it was like whoa, no wonder why we all get so wounded in high school. You guys are so fucking mean to each other.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it's like oh, oh you know, kick it in the net next time you suck. It's like, oh shit. Well, all things considered, that's not that bad?

Alan Lazaros:

yeah, I know well, it was worse than that.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I was gonna say I'm sure that was the. I'm really dimming it down here a little bit. That's the pg version.

Alan Lazaros:

It was pretty bad. It's like I mean, they were saying some names I can't say on here, um one begins with a c word. They were saying all the time it's like oh my god, I haven't been in high school in a while. This is fucking brutal. But anyways, in high school I think we all get really deeply wounded. That's my takeaway.

Kevin Palmieri:

Okay, strong word mine would be, I think, the most, the most valuable one I could say is figure out what does it mean for you when you don't feel seen, and how does it show up, because I think it's different for everybody. It doesn't really bother me that much because I don't have a very long history of it. It's not a real deep wound for me. How are we doing on battery life over there?

Alan Lazaros:

15%, we're good. 15%, you don't feel unseen often.

Kevin Palmieri:

If I do, it usually is pretty quick for me to say, of course that person doesn't understand. If you don't know what a podcast is, you couldn't possibly understand most of what I say. I mean, you wouldn't understand. How could you understand?

Alan Lazaros:

Or maybe, if you've never, yeah, but okay, hold on. That is a big problem if it's people close to you. Well, I have very few people close to me first of all, exactly, and all of them know If you feel unseen by me and we work together that has to be brought up, and it does, and it does, and it's usually very quick.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, I think that most people feel unseen. Last piece here I said this to you on the Conscious Couples podcast, and this is what this is, by the way. Last piece here I said this to you on the Conscious Couples podcast, and this is what this is, by the way, because feeling unseen is the. The feeling unseen is a big pinnacle of having a bad relationship. Like if you feel unseen and your partner feels unseen and neither one of you know that and you're not good at communicating it and you I mean you're going to just destroy your relationship.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm just being, I'm just being honest Now.

Alan Lazaros:

I said this to you, amelia. I said this whole agree to disagree thing is that's a pipe dream. If you're in an intimate relationship, like you, can agree to disagree. But if that, if Kevin and I can agree to disagree, but if it's something that has to do with our company, we're going to have to integrate, we're going to have to find a way to get on the same page.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, or closer we are, the more we cannot agree to disagree and effectively move forward. Otherwise you have to compromise, or I have to compromise, and I think that can be a danger. Maybe that's an episode for another time but I remember telling emilia she's like well, agree to disagree.

Alan Lazaros:

I said, sweetheart, this is kind of a big deal. If we disagree on this, we're not going to be able to build together to the extent that we could. So instead, we need to integrate. I need to understand where you feel unseen. You understand where I feel unseen. I mean, I go to the gym with her every day. If I just don't mention the spotting thing, that's going to happen every day.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, for you know every other well, I think it depends on the size of it.

Alan Lazaros:

It depends on how close they are to you and how integrated they are with your goals and dreams and core values, which is why, when you're married and or in an intimate relationship, that's the person you hopefully feel the most seen by, not the least. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, and that's the to your point, it compounds. It's like if person A doesn't understand, level one of person b there's I mean you're missing all the levels under that, unfortunately. That that's what makes it so hard, and then it's. Then maybe you feel like there's too big of a gap to explain, there's too much contrast for you to explain, and then it becomes If one partner's arrogant, they're not open to hearing.

Alan Lazaros:

I mean, that is the epicenter, in my opinion, after four years of coaching couples, of why couples do not succeed.

Kevin Palmieri:

That makes sense. It makes sense. You used epicenter and pinnacle Pretty good, thank you. I don't know if you use pinnacle correctly. I don't even remember what I said to be honest, so it was the pinnacle of it. Yeah, I don't know. I'll look it up after. I'm always curious.

Alan Lazaros:

I, because that means the max the, the top of the mountain, I believe okay I think you used it right, then nice, go me.

Kevin Palmieri:

What did you have?

Alan Lazaros:

a real next level lesson it would be if you feel unseen, identify where and try your best to communicate that as effectively as possible, because it will come out eventually it will mine would be just going back to what I.

Kevin Palmieri:

Just to make sure I wrap it up, I don't know if I left anything out. Yeah, identify. What does feeling unseen feel like to you? What does it mean, what does it represent? What comes up? Because that's going to dictate a lot of what you do and don't do. I think it's more important for somebody who has felt unseen for a long period of time to start this process, as opposed to someone who I think it's obviously important for everybody, but if it affects you more, it's something that we want to work on faster. I think it's more important for you to do it than it is for me to do it, because this is an experience you've had for a lot longer than I have, and deeper, longer and more depth to it.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

Tough one. Tough one on a Sunday, you know. But again, I love these last two episodes. I've enjoyed thoroughly Nice. I've enjoyed these two episodes. Hopefully, whether you're watching or listening, you have enjoyed them as well, because if not, this was all for nothing.

Alan Lazaros:

No, just kidding For the growth.

Kevin Palmieri:

Okay, Next Level Live 2025, April 5th 2025. It is from 10 am to 4 pm Eastern Time. Tickets are $47, and it is a deep dive self-improvement day. Now, if you buy a ticket, you will get access to the replay. So if you can't stay for the whole thing, it's all good. If you buy a ticket, you will get access to the replay. So if you can't stay for the whole thing, it's all good. You'll get a link, I'm sure, to I don't know, maybe it'll be the Google Drive folder or whatever, but you'll be able to watch the whole thing in its entirety. So we know people are busy on Saturdays, but you can dip in and get some value.

Alan Lazaros:

When we were curating the content you had come up with the three sort of parts of it.

Kevin Palmieri:

The first third is why people struggle to be successful. Do you remember how you broke it down? Absolutely not, no, uh, why? It was why.

Alan Lazaros:

And then it was the process of starting, and then it was the process of continuing yeah, we're really, in other words, into success for this one, like yeah we really want to go.

Kevin Palmieri:

You'll leave again. We're on the tangible takeaway thing. You'll leave with your own sort of plan to level up your success. I mean, that's really the goal for this event 100 goals and dreams, goals and dreams. All right, as always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at nou, we don't have fans, we have.

Alan Lazaros:

We will talk to you all tomorrow, keep it Next Level, next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes. Thank you again and we will talk to us directly.

Kevin Palmieri:

Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes. Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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