Next Level University

What If Confidence Isn’t What You Thought? (2009)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What if confidence isn’t about being sure of yourself but taking action before you feel ready? In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan explain what confidence means and why it’s linked to feeling in control. Kevin shares a personal breakthrough from a recent speech, while Alan explains how confidence grows through experience—not before it. They also discuss the struggle between self-awareness and self-doubt, why some people overestimate their skills, and how true confidence develops over time.

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For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

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Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:52) Difference between certainty and control
(6:10) How deeper understanding and tactics work together
(8:01) Confidence in different areas of life
(10:34) How self-belief shapes envy and motivation
(18:16) How confidence shifts as you improve
(21:05) Join Next Level Live: A virtual, immersive event for those committed to growth, meaningful relationships, and a life they love. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/
(23:21) The Dunning-Kruger effect and confidence
(27:52) Confidence Vs. Arrogance
(34:38) Social media myths & the power of rational thinking
(40:45) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

The thing I think I was most confused about with confidence is the fact that I think confidence is just control. When you feel like you're in control of a situation, you are probably most likely feeling confident. I think the thing that sucks really badly is the only way to get control is to start by not having control. So I don't know how you ever get to the place where you're fully confident in everything you do in life until you go through the mud of not feeling confident for the vast majority of them, unfortunately.

Alan Lazaros:

Exactly. It's a conundrum chicken or egg One. You need clarity and certainty and understanding before doing something in order to be confident doing it. But when we're a beginner, we aren't confident, we aren't clear, we don't know what we're doing, we don't understand. The first time you play tennis, you suck Beginner, novice, amateur, expert, master, grandmaster. That's a journey of constantly iterating upon. Okay, I don't feel confident, I'm going to do it anyway. Okay, now I feel a little more confident, I'm going to do it anyway. Okay, now I feel a little more confident, I'm going to do it Now. I don't feel confident, I'm going to do it anyway. It's a process.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation. Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University where we help you level up your life, your love, your health and your wealth. Today for episode number 2009,. What if confidence isn't what you thought? I did a speech today, alan. A little Saturday speech action.

Kevin Palmieri:

We just opened the speech department again. We just opened the speech department again. Shout out to Aaron, one of our clients. Let me adjust this light real quick. It's a little dull in the studio today. One of our clients, aaron, said hey, I have a men's group and every month we have a different topic, and this month it's consistency and just do it, just get started, cool, love it.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I was in Canva putting together the presentation. I was like, okay, I feel like this is okay cool, you know how it is. You start a presentation outline, okay, we'll see how this comes together. I feel like it came together really well and I had a moment during it where I said, oh my goodness, this is what confidence feels like. I feel like I'm in control of this entire thing and I feel like I'm in flow. And I feel like I'm in flow and I feel at ease, almost.

Kevin Palmieri:

And it was really freaking weird for me. It was so strange, it was the strangest thing, nice. And then, after I was thinking about it and I was like, oh my goodness, that's what confidence is. Confidence is control. And when you feel in control of a situation and you feel in control of an outcome and you feel in control of the way that you respond when you feel out of control. I think that's what confidence is and it was a it was a giant breakthrough for me. So I I said to alan I said we got to do an episode on this. I don't know. I've heard other people say confidence is certainty, like that. That's definitely a piece of it, but I think there's a big difference between certainty and control.

Alan Lazaros:

So yeah, I don't know why I keep doing that. Have you changed your pauses?

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I've been trying to improve my dramatic pauses as a speaker. I'm a speaker, you know. I've done speeches. I'm out here speaking for a living. How many?

Alan Lazaros:

times, can you say speaking Many. I have been interrupting Kev more lately because he has changed his rhythm a little bit.

Kevin Palmieri:

Rhythm.

Alan Lazaros:

Bidness Rhythm.

Kevin Palmieri:

There was a fighter named Georges St-Pierre he's French-Canadian, one of the best fighters to ever do it and I believe he was talking about one of his opponents. In his accent he said he can't handle my rhythm.

Alan Lazaros:

And now that's one of my favorite things ever to say.

Kevin Palmieri:

He can't handle my rhythm.

Alan Lazaros:

I can't handle Kevin's rhythm All right. So certainty, confidence, competence, clarity, all this. I've been trying to think a lot about this too, because Kev and I in the past we've been podcasting together now for eight years we used to talk a lot about tactics versus deeper understanding. We had one mentor who was all tactics. Evan Carmichael was tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics.

Kevin Palmieri:

Favorite mentor ever.

Alan Lazaros:

There you go. We had another mentor, David Meltzer, at the time. Deeper understanding, deeper understanding, deeper understanding. So I enjoyed David Meltzer's mentorship in the deeper understanding aspect and Kevin enjoyed the tactics of Evan. And I think, ironically and paradoxically, I needed more tactics and you needed more deeper understanding.

Kevin Palmieri:

Still give me the deeper understanding. I mean still give me the tactics. F the deeper understanding, still give it to me, you crossed paths on that one.

Alan Lazaros:

Cross paths.

Kevin Palmieri:

You crossed over on that one Dude.

Alan Lazaros:

there was an episode, not 30 episodes ago, where you said I think I like deeper understanding more than I thought I would.

Kevin Palmieri:

Huh, yes, and I like to be taught tactics, though I think this is my thought. My thought is I work with somebody who is hyper-focused on deeper understanding. I'm going to learn that stuff Eventually, but does it make it less valuable.

Alan Lazaros:

It makes it less valuable to you.

Kevin Palmieri:

In the short run?

Alan Lazaros:

I think it does. Yeah, but not for other people. It doesn't make it less valuable as a concept.

Kevin Palmieri:

It just makes it less useful for you. No, but I can only speak from my experience.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, but you, just because you have someone who is going to help you with deeper understanding doesn't mean that the listeners don't get more out of deeper understanding than you will.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's fair yeah, that's fair play. Nice, I accept that, appreciate it check me all right.

Alan Lazaros:

So competence I was watching a movie. Two. Two things I want to share. Number one back in the day four or five has to be more than five years ago because I didn't meet emilia yet, I didn't feel confident in my ability to find a partner that I would, my person, be with forever and kev's like well, of course you don't, you've never succeeded. Oh, thank you very much, kevv.

Alan Lazaros:

No, but the truth is is that relationships were never super easy for me. I never understood like what, why that and this? And now I understand, okay, type A achiever, all this stuff, whereas success and external achievement and fitness and these formulaic things, always I felt very in control. So in fitness is a good example, I feel very in control. I was just on with a client earlier. He was talking about this. He said I feel very in control of my outcomes in fitness. I know the formula burn more calories, eat less calories, boom, lose weight, these exercises, all this. And at the time when I was 29, before I met Emilia, I felt very competent in fitness. I felt very in control of my own outcomes. I felt like if I wanted to get an eight pack, I could do it. I've done it before. I know how to do it. I know the formula, I know how to do it, but when it came to people I didn't understand.

Alan Lazaros:

Particularly intimate relationships. It's like why does it? Why isn't this? I don't understand particularly intimate relationships. It's like why does it? Why isn't I don't understand. Now I feel way more competent courage, humility, vulnerability, communication. I I feel very confident in my ability now to identify when something's wrong with emilia and I. And then I know I feel very capable and competent. I gotta stay to stay humble with this, but I feel very capable of identifying and solving whatever that bug in the garden is.

Alan Lazaros:

But in the past I didn't. And I was with this client earlier and he said do you feel like I screwed that up? And I said, yes, you were in your early twenties. There was a girl that he was dating that he is now talking to again and he's like do you think I screwed it up before? Yeah, 100%. You didn't mean to. You just didn't know what the hell you were doing Fair, and now you do. Now you know all this stuff, now it's obvious. Okay. So he feels like he has more control over the outcome of his intimate relationship, more control of the outcome of his fitness. One thing we're working on is control of the outcome on YouTube and therefore he is more confident. Now there's two types of confidence. There's external confidence my ability to achieve X, y, z and then there's internal confidence, which is your ability to understand yourself and to be in control of your own reactions. So if Kevin says something that bothers me, can I identify the emotion I feel, identify what the trigger is, identify the trauma response and then react accordingly?

Alan Lazaros:

And one last piece here we were in book club earlier and we're reading the book the Art of Thinking Clearly and it goes over the a hundred of the cognitive biases. One of them was talking about envy and I was talking about how I don't feel like I. In the book they said when you're envious of someone else, a lot of times people tear that person down or don't want to see them win, or don't support them or whatever. And I was talking about how I don't feel like that's ever been really my reaction. Usually my reaction is I get inspired and motivated. And we went deeper and deeper and deeper and we realized that that's because high self-belief takes envy and makes it constructive. So I've and one of the people in book club if you're listening you'll know who you are said well, when do you think you developed that skill? I said I have no idea. Ever since I was a kid probably. I just, whenever I felt envy, I just probably was like okay, I'm going to go do it too. Then question.

Kevin Palmieri:

I got a question for you Remember. Remember you and I were having a conversation and I said when you walk into a bar, what are you thinking about? And you said I'm not thinking about anything. And I was like I'm thinking about everything. How much control do you feel? You don't go to bars anymore, but like at the time, do you just, yeah, what is that? Though? Please explain it and bottle it up and then sell some to me.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, my answer back then was I'm not thinking about myself, I'm thinking about others. Okay, I'm others, conscious, not self-conscious. I like these conversations. We don't talk about this anymore. What's?

Kevin Palmieri:

the layer under that.

Alan Lazaros:

So others conscious.

Kevin Palmieri:

Hey, we're bringing it back. We're bringing the fucking hyper-conscious podcast back. So others conscious? Hey, we're bringing it back. We're bringing the fucking hyper-conscious podcast back.

Alan Lazaros:

That's what we are Done it's back, and then we'll stray again Of course I'm kidding. So Kev, when I first met him, was very self-conscious.

Kevin Palmieri:

I still am more self-conscious than I would like.

Alan Lazaros:

But at the speech you weren't. It wasn't about you, it was about them.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, yeah, but that's it's never.

Alan Lazaros:

It's always about. It's not about me. Right now, our focus is on the listeners and the viewers. The only time you and I ever butt heads is when we disagree about the approach on how to serve others. I would say that is fair, and so right now I mean a lot of people actually think that I'm talking about me, to talk about me and make it about me, which is really quite annoying for me, to be honest, because I'm trying to articulate things to help the listener and the viewer.

Kevin Palmieri:

I understand it, though I can understand it.

Alan Lazaros:

Why it seems that way?

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think about that all the time. Like I, I have to use myself as an example because I don't really know what other people are like. This whole, the whole beginning of this episode is about me and my experience. Like I can understand if somebody would say like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Kev got another lesson from a speech. It's like yeah, I understand, I just ain't got shit else to talk about.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, well, the other thing, too, is what's the purpose? The purpose isn't to talk about us. No, it's about growth. Yeah, it's to help other people. What's the?

Kevin Palmieri:

layer under your other, like what are you? Do you on a scale of zero to 10, when you walk into a room, how much control do you?

Alan Lazaros:

but I I have to ask the question because I think this is a thing what it was when I answered back then was I felt very in control of the bar scenario, because I've been there many times and I always facilitated a great experience and that was all my only goal ever when I went out. Because and I'll, I'll give the for the, for the ladies out there listening the dude on the bar, you know, on the side of the bar looking pretending to be a badass, that's not what. That's not going to work. So I was the one who would to me and again back in college, I was always trying to facilitate the best experience, because that's actually what I've noticed girls actually care about, which is like they just want to go out and have fun and dance. So the guy who's the most fun ends up the winner in that game, so to speak.

Alan Lazaros:

And so I just never cared about anything else and that's why I always hosted the best parties and all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. But now my answer is different, because I wasn't that intimidating back then. So back then I wasn't as self-conscious as I am now. Now it's harder for me because I think that, uh, I'm bigger, I'm tall, I'm older and I think that my presence has increased in, in focus and intensity, and so now I'm more aware of how insecure other people are, which is hard for me to handle?

Kevin Palmieri:

Are you more or less confident Less In social settings less than you?

Alan Lazaros:

used to be More in terms of myself, less in terms of adding value to others, because the value that I have to provide is very, very an acquired taste now. So when I'm at a barbecue, for example you and I have talked about this I felt very. We interviewed Stephen Kotler. He wrote the book the Art of Impossible. This is episode 632, I think and again I'm not actually certain it's 632, I really am not, but it's in the 600s. You can search Next Level University, stephen Collar. It will come up on YouTube. I felt 10 out of 10 confident interviewing him Because I've studied peak performance so much that I was just pumped. It was kid in a candy store Me and him get to nerd out about flow and productivity and all that stuff and you felt not confident, out of control, right?

Alan Lazaros:

And so you made jokes and whatever, and that was your trauma response and some of it was great and some of it was that. But at the barbecue you and I I tried to explain to Kev we used to spend every Father's Day together. I know I've told this before, but we would go fishing and we were at a Father's Day barbecue where I used to live with one of my friends from that I grew up with and I felt very uncomfortable in that setting. And now I understand why. I told kev I feel out of my comfort zone here because I don't feel like I can be all of me here, whereas with steven kotler I can be all of me and that's accepted and valued, whereas you were the opposite. And that's when we figured out okay, kevin is a quote unquote regular dude who wants to work hard to be extraordinary, and I'm not and and I'm a more acquired taste. So I would say it's harder for me now than it used to be, so interesting how, the more you learn about it, the harder it can get.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, that's, I think, the opposite of. One of the things that's been really fascinating for me is I'm a stronger communicator now than I used to be, but I don't feel like a stronger communicator Because your standards are higher.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, exactly.

Alan Lazaros:

Because it's all a sliding scale based on your standards, and I'm more aware of how much I sucked before it's so interesting because I feel, yeah again, who knows, I might get a message from somebody who says kev.

Kevin Palmieri:

I listened to the episode speech. Wasn't that good? You gotta take it easy. My bad, but I got off and I was like that was easily the best I've ever done. That was was the best speech hands down that I've ever given.

Alan Lazaros:

And it was awesome.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it was really. It felt really good.

Alan Lazaros:

That's what confidence feels like. It's really good, but it's very hard to stay humble when you feel that way all the time about everything.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well that's, I don't expect to get there ever. I this is my second speech I gave this week, so there's something about I've said this before. It took me roughly 150 podcast episodes as a podcast host of this show. So the first 150 hyper-conscious podcast episodes before I felt confident. I'm curious to what the collapsing of time would be in terms of how long would it take me to feel 150 episodes confident. But for speaking, it's not going to take 150. Yeah, how many is it going to take? I did two this week. It only took a couple. Well, I'm not the same level of confident. I'm not as confident. I don't feel as confident going into a speech as I do a podcast.

Alan Lazaros:

This is where we get a little deeper to hyperconscious. How confident you feel is tied to the outcome and or the process. So, for example, how confident do you feel about the speech you just gave? 0 to 10.

Kevin Palmieri:

As of right now.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah 9.5.

Kevin Palmieri:

Nice. Okay, what are you?

Alan Lazaros:

tying that to Because I used to be more confident in my effective communication based on lower awareness. Now that I have higher awareness, I realize I'm not actually as good as I thought, which is actually making me better, not worse.

Kevin Palmieri:

Right right right, right.

Alan Lazaros:

So it's almost like the more you master something, the more you realize you suck compared to what you thought.

Kevin Palmieri:

And it's this whole process. What's that chart? It's like a psychological thing where there's some people out there that have no idea about anything, that think they know way more than an expert does. It's a very famous, it's a chart. Famous. It's a chart. It's a, it's a graph, it's like a circle. It's like a circle, would you even know what to research?

Alan Lazaros:

is this the unconscious incompetence and all that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it's a version of it.

Alan Lazaros:

I'll I'll think of it I gotta ask you this back in the day day okay, when we interviewed Lori Harder and all these Olympic athletes and all kinds of stuff, like we've interviewed several Olympians, yes. I was never not confident in those interviews. And now that you're this version of you, what is your thought? What did you think back then versus what do you realize now? Because did it seem cocky? Because, like Lori Harder, when we interviewed her, that was not outside my comfort zone, brother, and I'm not just saying that.

Kevin Palmieri:

I just seemed like you were confident.

Alan Lazaros:

What were you?

Kevin Palmieri:

like Freaking out. It was brutal Brother it was brutal, dude.

Alan Lazaros:

You must have felt so unseen, I felt so unseen, I felt so unseen.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I knew you didn't get it and I'm sure I wasn't as vulnerable as I could have been. But I think there was a part of me that thought, if you thought if I was as vulnerable as I wanted to be, I think I was afraid that you would think I was weak.

Kevin Palmieri:

Not that you ever created that fear, but it was like I need him to think I can do this and the only way for him to think I can do this is just to do it, Even though I don't know how or what I'm going to do yet. Which is now a superpower? Now it's like, yeah, I don't know. Well, I'll figure it out, I'll find a way to.

Alan Lazaros:

I'll find a way.

Kevin Palmieri:

What do you need done? That's what confidence is. I've never heard. I'll figure it out. Yeah, but it's confidence that turns into anxiety after. Between the time I say yes to something I don't know how to do, and then I deliver the thing, most of it's anxiety.

Alan Lazaros:

Anxiety can be constructive. This is something it can be. Anxiety anxiety can be constructive. This is something it can be. It can be, yeah, real quick. Anxiety is connected to lack of control.

Kevin Palmieri:

Oh my god, yes, next level nation. We are very, very excited to announce that we are doing our first purely virtual next level live. On april 5th 2025, from 10 am to 4 pm Eastern Standard Time, alan and myself will be live streaming from Worcester, massachusetts.

Alan Lazaros:

Next Level, live 2025. Be there, it's only $47 for a full day of personal development, self-improvement, holistic health, wealth, life and love.

Kevin Palmieri:

We have a global audience, Obviously, if you liveprovement, holistic health, wealth, life and love. We have a global audience, Obviously, if you live somewhere else in the world. It's hard to come across the country or across the world for a one-day event, so we wanted to make sure it was accessible to everyone You're not going to get to the next level of your life by default.

Alan Lazaros:

You're going to get there by design. Join us Design that next level. Being 20 days out from an event is an added pressure on top of everything else I'm already doing. And I was talking to Emilio on our walk last night about necessity and how goals create pressure Goals with deadlines. That's why I didn't want to do the 10 pounds in 10 weeks yet, because that's going to put more pressure than I think is optimal. Everyone needs to. And you don't want to do the 10 pounds in 10 weeks yet because that's gonna put more pressure than I think is optimal. Everyone needs to. You don't need to do anything everyone. In order to maximize your growth, you have to find what Stephen Kotler said the challenge skills sweet spot. So you just gave that speech in your home studio on podcasting. That's in your comfort zone. That's easy. But if you were to give a speech on peak performance in front of a thousand people in a new venue, first of all it'd be on consistency.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, whatever you know what I'm saying. The first one.

Kevin Palmieri:

I gave two this week. Okay, two. I gave two speeches this week, thank you. First one was on podcasting. The second one was on consistency Okay, Sustainability, okay, and improvement, okay, I had I, maybe I had a couple, maybe one or two charts in there that that maybe showed exponential growth.

Alan Lazaros:

Nice, maybe maybe I did, maybe I didn't the uh?

Kevin Palmieri:

the psychological thing is the dunning kruger effect and I am uh, very proud of myself for not.

Kevin Palmieri:

The dunning kruger effect is a psychological phenomenon where beginners often overestimate their knowledge and competence in a specific area and as you know more about a subject, you start to think you know less about a subject because you know how much you didn't know and probably still don't know. But in the beginning this essentially it's like ignorance is bliss. You don't really know, but you think you know everything because you don't know how much there is to know about the thing.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, a good example of this is a person who's been in bar fights with a professional fighter. Yeah, those are my favorite videos to watch.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, that's exactly it.

Alan Lazaros:

Because the person who hasn't actually stepped in the ring with a professional fighter thinks they're a better fighter than they are. The person who's fought and lost many times to really, really, really good fighters actually doesn't think they're that good of a fighter, but in a bar fight it would be no problem. And that's a really challenging part of this journey too, because we started doing these new openings. The NLU listeners and viewers will notice there's new openings and we don't take any notes. We don't prepare those. Those are just lights, camera go?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't. I don't think that they.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't think anybody would notice, though, because it was the same before it was just pulled from the episode, as opposed to us doing them okay, well, you said something to the team off air earlier well, it was on air, I guess but you said you know we got this, we're gonna, let's do it. And back before I was a podcaster and before you and I had done promo videos and before I mean I didn't understand the extent that these news anchors go through, for example. They're live lights, cameras go, it's a whole thing. But again, all of us have our thing we're really good at, but we don't think we're that good because we're comparing to the best, whereas in the beginning you think you're great, when in reality you don't realize, you actually kind of suck, and I think that's the process of mastery.

Alan Lazaros:

I played chess with Emilia. I was so excited we have a chessboard in our living room and I've been playing chess since I was a kid and it's one of my favorite games and she had played for the first time and she was better than she thinks, but worse than she thinks. Let me explain Really good for her first time, but she hasn't played chess ever before.

Kevin Palmieri:

Never. That blows my freaking mind I know Great game.

Alan Lazaros:

I told her too. I said, sweetheart, this is going to be. She loved it. She loved it, absolutely loved it. She loved it, absolutely loved it. She's like you were shaking in your boots, weren't you? I was like, honestly, a little bit.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I was good, I was in control. The horse will get you. Is there any back on that horse? That horse will get you. I'm done by it.

Alan Lazaros:

If you are a grandmaster chess player in this metaphor, you're not going to be concerned about playing Kevin chess If you've never played before and you have an audience and everyone and there's a big amount of prize money. I'll never forget I went to a halo tournament and they put a little, a little six year old girl on my team because I always won. Every week it was two V two and I just had her hide in the bunker. I still beat everybody, but I wasn't concerned because I knew I was better, so I just knew I'd win. But that's what confidence is. But it sounds arrogant to say that, but if I was playing professional Halo players, I would have lost with a six-year-old.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I understand why it sounds. I understand why it can sound arrogant, because it's what if it's true?

Alan Lazaros:

though it's not arrogant. If it's true right, or maybe it is, I don't know it's perception, it still sounds arrogant?

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, it's not arrogant. I don't think from the person saying it it's necessarily arrogant. It doesn't mean it won't be perceived that way. I sent a message to a client today and again this is going to sound arrogant, but it's. I don't think it is. I don't mean it that way.

Alan Lazaros:

I this is so good for me. Kevin's going to start sounding arrogant.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is great, yeah you're going to hate both of us. I'm just kidding. I sent a message to a client and I said these are the types of things that I'm learning about on YouTube behind the scenes, like what's working really well on YouTube. This is my suggestion. And then I just did like a full one minute thing that went into a story and then in the audio message I said that was pretty effing good huh, and that was the end of the audio message. But I mean, ah, that was pretty effing good huh, and that was the end of the audio message.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I mean, think about it, if we think about the pure statistics, if we just think about it, I have spoken on this microphone, or various forms of microphones, for probably close to 3,000 hours publicly, right, and that's not including however many I don't know how many thousands of coaching calls that I've done, but I've spoken thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of times. Shouldn't I feel better than someone who hasn't Slash? Shouldn't I eventually? I mean, this is the goal get to a place where I think I'm good at this, because, for most of the time, I didn't.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, this goes back to the conversation you and I had a few weeks ago, where I said accurate thinking is really important. If you think you're better than you are, you're screwed, you're arrogant. If you think you're worse than you are, you won't shoot shots.

Kevin Palmieri:

that you should shoot. I don't remember exactly what I said and I don't want to be a hypocrite, so I'm not going to defend either of those.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, you said delusion was good sometimes and I disagreed. Oh yeah, yeah, I think arrogance is thinking you're better than you actually are.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, I would agree with that, but if you're a really strong speaker and think you're a strong speaker speaker in the, and this is why I love percentiles. I have a client of mine who had a 730 on his math sats. He's a multi-millionaire. Shout out to you, brother, and he's, he's. Yeah, I would go as far as say he's got genius level intellect and I appreciate that. But he and I love our calls. I was telling you, melia, she's like you love insert person's name.

Alan Lazaros:

I said of course I get to talk differently to him than I do other people and it's not even this is coming off arrogant. It's he understands me at a deeper level than someone who isn't also that way, and my point of that is he's, he doesn't feel out of control of his financial future. He knows, he's, he's, he knows all of it. He just right. So what is my point of this? He's not arrogant, he's accurate, he's in the top one percent of math understanding and he's accurate about that. And he's not cocky at all at all. I know some people who think they're smarter than him and they're definitely fucking not. And I know some people who think they don't know anything and they actually know some stuff. So to me, I think accuracy is it's like a car that thinks it's a boat.

Kevin Palmieri:

You're gonna drown uh, unless it's a car boat, they're.

Alan Lazaros:

They do exist, don't you dare say they don't, son, do they really? Yes, of course man there's.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know, there was there was somebody wonky out there that was like I'd like to drive this into the water. What?

Alan Lazaros:

about a car, boat, plane that actually does exist as well, I believe Driven by a man bear pick. That does not exist.

Kevin Palmieri:

That second part there's, there's. There's car like half car, half submarine type deal there's a lot of stuff out there that you don't know about because you don't watch dumb YouTube videos like I do.

Kevin Palmieri:

Facts, facts. This dumb YouTube videos like I do. Facts, facts. This is my thought, real quick, before we pop on out of here. I think this is what happens Somebody says something that potentially seems arrogant, and what happens is, instead of exploring because, again, I've done this many times in villainizing someone for something that they said Instead of exploring if it's true or not, I think it's just easier to say, well, that person's arrogant, yeah, or delusional or whatever, and I never thought of it from the math perspective.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't understand how you didn't. How did you trust that I actually knew what I was talking about?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't know. I don't think I fully trusted everything that you said. It was just like I think I'll be in a better place.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know if so it's basically I don't know if he knows, but I know he knows more than me, yeah. And I told Kev this too. I said I never think I'm fully right, fully optimal. I just know I'm not fully wrong.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, never think I'm fully right, fully optimal, I just know I'm not fully wrong, yeah, but that's a speck.

Alan Lazaros:

I mean I could say the same thing. You're not. You're never fully wrong. I know so it's like, but I'm well here's the problem right. Just because I'm not fully right doesn't mean I'm not more right than you well, I know, but that's more accurate. That's another layer, that's like right there you were more accurate about boat submarines or car submarines or car boats.

Kevin Palmieri:

The day I'm not, I'm wrapping this up and calling it quits. Well, that's my point right.

Alan Lazaros:

That's why life is so hard, that's why we hurt each other, that's why mastery is so important and that's why curiosity and humility is so important. You kind of have to know you don't know, but you have to know what you do know. And you have to know you don't know, but you have to know what you do know and it's very you have to reassess that all the time you have to.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think it's so that the thing that really makes it land for me is if, if I was to look again, I know the vast, vast, vast majority of our audience are not bodybuilders, completely understandable. I think that's one of the most just cut and dry things. It's like that person is in better shape than that other person is Just from a. I guess it's subjective, but like not, yeah, in bodybuilding it is Body comp is not that subjective, no, no, yeah, but like it's body mass.

Kevin Palmieri:

Right now I am leaner than Alan is. That is a fact, yep, so neither of us would be offended by that either way. But like if you heard me say to Alan Alan, I'm leaner than you. Right now I'm in better shape. Yeah better body comp If you, if there's a piece of you that gets that thinks it's arrogant for me to say that I think there's some digging to do.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

Because that is. That is just just like it's accurate. That is accurate. Just like I am a more competent speaker than insert somebody who has never publicly spoken. That is factual. Just like if you have a child, you'd know yeah, you most likely know way more about parenting than I do. If you've learned anything about parenting, you know more about parenting than I do. That is a fact.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't have kids, of course it gets wonky, though, because no one knows what anyone knows. They only know what you can show, which was your thing. Well, that's why I went there. It's really hard too, because and I'll bring this down to earth here for a second why does any of this matter? I'm always trying to think why does this matter? Because, why does this matter? Because you'll let people lead who shouldn't. For sure, dude, do you know how many people I let lead that didn't actually know anything?

Kevin Palmieri:

What a bad idea.

Alan Lazaros:

The reason I'm so passionate about that is because of social media. Yeah, people are being hoodwinked Badly, badly, and it's not fair, it's badly.

Kevin Palmieri:

I didn't realize. If you're a chiropractor, I'm not saying anything bad about you, but a lot of the dumbest things I've ever heard are by doctors who are chiropractors and they don't know anything about what they're talking about. But they're a doctor because they are a chiropractor.

Alan Lazaros:

This is the perception. That's an interesting and again.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm not talking shit about chiropractors.

Alan Lazaros:

I am talking shit about shitty chiropractors though I am Anyone who is portraying themselves as something that is not rooted in reality to try to sell someone something or get. That's why I don't like and this is probably the way to really bring it down to earth here to connect to the listener. This is my next level lesson what's your relationship with accurate thinking? What's your relationship with truth? Inaccurate thinking is affecting you. If you, if you go and try to get a loan from the bank with a 50% interest rate and they know that you don't know what that means and they give it to you anyway, that is that is hurting you. It's hurting you tremendously because that basically means you're fucked. And Kevin and I are.

Alan Lazaros:

We've gotten very clear at who we're for Heart-driven, but no BS. Self-improvement goals, dreams, growth-minded individuals, leading leaders, helping people live and prosper, live free and prosper Little Star Trek action. But ultimately I just don't. Of course, I love rationality, but I wonder if people, I wonder if I've ever communicated why rationality matters so much. Rationality matters because if you can't understand what the data is and what's accurate and what's not, you actually can't make good choices. And if you can't make good choices, you can't prosper. And if you can't prosper, your future won't be bright. And if your future is not bright, you'll be nihilistic. And if you're nihilistic, why wouldn't you, you know, be toxic or entitled? If you don't believe the future, that your future is bright, there's biological science to this. You essentially will crawl into alcoholism or there's a lot of bad side effects to that, whereas if you believe your future's bright, you'll invest in yourself, you'll read the books, you'll listen to the podcast, you'll have a flourishing relationship.

Alan Lazaros:

You and I, 35 and 36, we are better intimate partners. We're better men. We're better at money, we're better at health, wealth and love. We're more in shape, we're more well everything except for that one I just said. We're more intelligent. Everything is better than it used to be because we believed in a bigger, better, brighter future. And I think that that needs to. That mind virus, that mindset, that mind, that belief, is what NLU I think is. And if you can tie that to this concept of control and confidence, everyone wants to be confident, but not everyone wants to go do a thousand episodes in order to build confidence. But if they knew that they could, they probably would. And that's why I always ask, like Kev, what was it like before versus now?

Kevin Palmieri:

you know, Well, I don't. Again, most people don't need to do it this way, right, you don't need to. Your thing is going to be specific, so you're going to have to do your thousand reps in whatever it is that you want to be really confident in. If you want to be a really confident speaker, I think this is the best way to do it.

Alan Lazaros:

That is a blanket statement, but I agree, we do a rep every day, right.

Kevin Palmieri:

We can do it whenever we want. Awesome For you. Whether you're watching or listening, your thing is different. Maybe it's you've got to write a thousand home offers. Matt's a real estate agent. He's talked to me about how much better he is at like knowing the offers and knowing the paperwork, and you're going to do social media with him and like his company potentially.

Alan Lazaros:

And you're going to do social media with him and like his, his company potentially. And a lot of them are new to social media so they're not confident yet, so you're gonna have to inject belief, yeah you got this, help them out but you have, and eventually they'll get more confident.

Kevin Palmieri:

You have to have control to give it. Yeah, exactly that's. You have to feel in control to let somebody else borrow some of it. 100 right, so yeah, right, cool I enjoyed this Also.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know if anyone knows Matt, matt's, kevin's best friend. Yeah, I just want to get better at. I've talked about him Sharing context.

Kevin Palmieri:

He's somewhat famous.

Alan Lazaros:

But for any new listeners they probably don't know us.

Kevin Palmieri:

I told him a long time ago this was back in like 2019. Maybe I said you got to come on the podcast 19. Maybe I said you gotta come on the podcast and he's like eventually I will. And I was like you missed your chance, man, you messed up, you missed your chance, but he's not a super public dude, so it's understandable.

Kevin Palmieri:

Alright, april 5th 2025. That's the correct date. Yes, next Level Live. So we have a virtual event. You can literally grow from your home, and we're talking about success. We're talking about. Our goal is, by the end of Next Level Live 2025, this full day virtual event, you will have the awareness, you will have the tactics and you will have the Hold on Deeper understanding. No, it wasn't going to say that the hold on deeper understanding. No, it wasn't going to say that what's the commitment device? Necessity. Necessity and accountability, because there's going to be a whatsapp group to accomplish more of your goals, and that's what we want at the end of the day. Yes, we want many of us want nicer things, and maybe we want more money and we want a better relationship. Those are our goals. And maybe we want more money and we want a better relationship. Those are our goals, but maybe we don't know how to get there yet. That's what we're going to be talking about, so we'd love to have you if you're interested.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, we hope to see you there. Five groups of 10 people. It's going to be a speech, a training and a group facilitation slash workshop all rolled into one. Now here's the key from the comfort of your own home and you can pop in and out, we're going to give you the full replay. Okay, it's okay if you pop in and out. It's from 10 am to 4 pm. You can pop in and out.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, we won't be offended Exactly, and I'll be in my pajamas too, which is cool for everybody, alright. I'm not really going to be in my pajamas. As always, you United fans, we have family. We'll talk to you all tomorrow, Keep it next level, next level nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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