Next Level University

“Who Not How” Is A Dangerous Mindset (2014)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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In today’s episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan challenge the popular mindset of “Who, Not How” and break down why it might be hurting more than helping. They share honest insights about the dangers of shortcuts, the importance of building skills first, and how self-awareness can keep you from wasting time. Whether you’re just starting out or already on your growth journey, this conversation will help you question what really works for you.

Learn more about:
Next Level Live 2025: Saturday, April 5th, 2024 (10:00 am to 4:00 pm EST)  - https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

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Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(4:01) When delegation hurts more than it helps
(6:12) Self-belief and knowing what works for you
(8:29) Why one book can’t solve everything
(10:37) The trap of catchy phrases Vs. Real growth
(13:27) “Believe harder” isn’t always the answer
(14:43) Belief Vs. Strategy: Finding the right mix
(16:43) Join Next Level Live: A virtual, immersive event for those committed to growth, meaningful relationships, and a life they love. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-live/
(22:10) Tailoring advice to where you are
(26:22) Why self-awareness should guide what you learn
(30:32) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

I just feel like there are a ton of books out there that have a really sexy, catchy title that makes you think, okay, this is exactly what I need and this is going to make my life so much easier. And you read the book and there are some valuable points. But if you go all, all, all in on that mindset, I think you are setting yourself up for trouble.

Alan Lazaros:

So there's a book called who, not how. There's also a saying called your network is your net worth, and while I understand what that book is trying to articulate, I also understand what that saying of your network is your net worth is trying to say. I think that we need to dig a few layers deeper to understand that it's number one, not the whole game, and number two there's things that come with that, in order to actually make it work.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation today for episode number 2014. Who, not how, is a dangerous mindset. I will never forget this. You and I were at dinner one time and we were kind of at like a networking type event, and there was this older, I would say wise, gentleman sitting next to me and at some point in the conversation, the four hour work week by Tim Ferriss came up and he looked at me and he said the only person that ever got rich off the four hour work week was Tim Ferris. And then he started laughing and I was like, oh my goodness, shots fired and I kind of, I kind of met, I vibe with that, I messed with that a little bit. I I appreciate that.

Kevin Palmieri:

Now again, the goal in today's episode is not to be the people who beat up on people's books. That's not the goal. But I have talked to a lot of people who hear who, not how, they read the four hour work week and then they essentially just sabotage themselves into not being successful Because and this is my bold statement my bold statement is those books work really well for a certain type of person. If, when I started this journey as a dream chaser, I thought to myself who, not how, or I'm going to try to work the least amount and make passive income and delegate and all that stuff. I would have not made it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I, there's no way. I think there's a subset of people who are just successful at almost everything that they do. They're driven, they're confident, they have grit. When they read books like that, I think that's good for them, because maybe they're just grinding their face off, smashing their head against the wall and they're like I'm going to do this all by myself. I think it's very powerful from that perspective, but not everybody is wired that way. So if you think this is the manual to make way more money, impact, influence, whatever, with way less time, yeah, there are some fundamentals in there, there are some philosophies in there, but I don't know.

Alan Lazaros:

I just think that mindset and that phrase is used too often so you mentioned how, if you had gone off that book who, not how and tried to delegate all the stuff right out of the gate, that you wouldn't have been successful. Why?

Kevin Palmieri:

because I never would have developed the talent, the skills, the habits, the discipline, the awareness. I think it's. If it's an all or nothing mindset, that would be my blanket statement. If it's who, not how, versus how, not who, and you always choose who, not how, I think you're Jeffing yourself, just like if you always choose how, not who, you're probably Jeffing yourself. So maybe the point of the book is most people choose how, not who. So this is the opposite of that. But I don't think that's true because I know a ton of people who try to take shortcuts by finding the who and avoiding the how, not saying that was the point of the book. But remember, we were talking sorry, real quick. We were talking about how oftentimes the beliefs uh, oftentimes the content that reinforces your beliefs are the most, is the most dangerous content yes because, obviously, if the reason we are not successful we, the collective we, is because we are missing something.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, it's not because you don't believe enough in the thing that you believe so much in. Most likely Right, it's most likely not it.

Alan Lazaros:

That is the base. I've been saying that a lot lately, but that is a big problem that you and I I think people always ask me when I go on other shows how do you understand this or where did you come up with that? I've never heard that that way and I'm very grateful and I feel super honored seriously to be able to speak into the lives of these people. But I said it's Kev. He looks from a different frame than me.

Alan Lazaros:

I had no freaking clue, of course. Wow, well, you would come to me and say, brother, that sounds dumb. To someone who doesn't believe in themselves, that's never going to land, and obviously you say it playfully. But when I say you should never question whether or not you can achieve something, you should only ever question whether or not you want to. That won't land to someone who doesn't have ridiculously high self-belief.

Alan Lazaros:

You had someone you were on a podcast earlier. You said she had really high self-belief, unbelievably high. Yeah, okay, so that would resonate with her. Yes, she most likely achieves pretty much everything she sets her mind to within reason. Yes, she most likely achieves pretty much everything she sets her mind to within reason. And those people that really do have that authentic, deep level of unconscious self-belief, even though they don't know it, they usually don't set goals that they don't think they can actually achieve. That's the irony.

Alan Lazaros:

I definitely can't win a strongman competition. I definitely can't be michael phelps like I. I chose not to be a professional snowboarder because I knew I couldn't do it, because I wasn't born on a mountain, even though I was a really strong snowboarder. I mean, I've met a kid named Liam who started at four and he was next to a mountain and went to a high school on a mountain and he was doing, you know, triple backflip skiing and all that. I just knew there's levels and that ship sailed, that ship sailed, and so, anyways, to go back to the original point here, the reason why I think you and I have a unique perspective is because we have the whole spectrum and each other's perspective, both sides of the pendulum. Both sides of the pendulum, who, not how, how, not who, that's both sides. High self-belief, no self-belief. Both sides. High humility, low humility, both sides. And we have discussed all of these books. We've discussed. Emilia said only you would read a book called Willpower and a book called Willpower doesn't work at the same time.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, I started the second one today and I was like this is strange.

Alan Lazaros:

Strange. What do you think so far?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't like it. I don't know. I find it very hard to believe that after all the science I heard about Willpower and the various studies, that essentially it's saying that your environment is everything it's like. Oh yeah, I think your environment is drastically important, but when I travel and I still do all the things that I'm supposed to do, you're saying that's not because of willpower, that's because of my new environment. That's worse. I don't agree with that.

Alan Lazaros:

But I'm not that far in so. No, but it's fair and it's both. Your environment matters a ton and having and developing willpower matters a ton. I I feel very, I don't know, maybe maybe you and I have a more wholesome perspective, and I like the word wholesome. I think holistic and wholesome are good words and NLU. I think we're trying to find the missing pieces in stuff. We're not here to bash spirituality, we're not here to bash grit, we're not here to. We're trying to illuminate, I think, the whole spectrum of, of understanding, and I I really appreciate that I do, and and so, speaking of this, I have the book cover up right now on audible who, not how.

Alan Lazaros:

The formula equals achieve bigger goals through accelerating teamwork. Now, teamwork matters and you do have to find the right people to be around, and that is a critical part of the formula. However, if you don't know how to do anything yourself, you're not going to be able to delegate effectively. I couldn't delegate peak performance tracking to you until I did peak performance tracking right. You couldn't delegate audio and video editing until you have enough experience to understand what that actually requires and how to optimize it and all that stuff.

Alan Lazaros:

And I think that these book titles are catchy phrases. Willpower doesn't work. That's a marketing title. It's a good hook. It's's a good hook, but it is not the meal. The meal it's a little appetizer, and it's an appetizer that has some nice gravy on it and it looks really delicious, but it's not the whole meal and I think that's just absolutely critical. With any book, with any idea, with anything that sounds too good to be true or too simple. It probably has some layers and it's probably part of the equation not the whole equation, it definitely is. There's no one.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, that's the thing. I don't think there is any one size fits all, and I think the and I agree, the reason I like doing episodes like this is because there is one size that works best for you, whether you're watching or listening. Maybe you're the person who just sits in the dark all day and does it by yourself and refuses to ask for help who, not how, is valuable for you 100%. But if you're the person who's always like I gotta network and I gotta meet these people and I gotta lunch date and ooh I this is the example I use with Alan.

Kevin Palmieri:

Behind the scenes, alan and I worked very diligently at being better speakers and better interviewers and working on ourselves and all that stuff. We got a lot of opportunities to interview very successful people and I would say all of them gave us really good feedback. You guys are really good at this. All that we get a lot of opportunities from that. We would not have been able to capture or take advantage of those opportunities if it was always who, not how. Yeah, it just wouldn't have worked.

Kevin Palmieri:

Just like if you're sitting in a cave mastering something and getting really freaking good at it, but you never show your face out in the world, that doesn't really matter, because you're not going to be able to add value to the world with it. So if there is a strength, there is an opposite weakness, and if there is a weakness, hopefully there's an opposite strength. The four-hour work week is another really good example. Great title for a book, awesome, great, great title. What percentage of humans are ever going to get to the place where they work four hours a week and are millionaires? Less than 1% of 1% of 1%.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, fundamentals, it's not a statistical thing, especially Tim. Tim works way more than four hours.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, again the fundamentals. There's stuff in there that delegate and automate and eliminate and procrastinate and passive income and blah, blah, blah. All that Sure Pareto baby.

Alan Lazaros:

You missed Pareto, pareto, my man, wilfredo Pareto, the 80-20 rule Great, Great right.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's all great. And how many hours, how many 80-hour weeks is it going to take before you get to a four-hour work week? Long freaking time, Well it depends.

Alan Lazaros:

Do you have generational wealth? That's fair. Are you in corporate or do you start your own thing?

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm not reading books if I have generational wealth.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm doing cocaine on a yacht somewhere.

Kevin Palmieri:

You think I'm reading books.

Alan Lazaros:

Luckily you didn't have generational wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's a joke.

Alan Lazaros:

See, now you need to say I was winking to the camera. That's why I say just joking, because I need to make sure people know, because a lot of people.

Kevin Palmieri:

I'm so serious they don't know if I'm being sarcastic. You want to clip it and throw it on the internet. I don't care, you can do your thing.

Alan Lazaros:

You had said in this episode, which is where I want to bring it back the reason you're not achieving what you want isn't because you don't believe what you already believe enough that is. That is irrational it's profound isn't? It. It's good stuff, brother. You and I, over the last eight years, have had to re-understand ourselves, each other, the world, business people. The reason we're not more successful is not just believe harder than what you already believe.

Kevin Palmieri:

I wish it was. There's. No, I wish it was. There's no way I wish it was though.

Alan Lazaros:

I think that there is a true North Star that you need to believe in. So my true North Star is reaching my potential and helping others do the same. That I believe in, even though it's been questioned. It's been hard to keep this belief, but I do believe long-term that that is my calling and that's what I believe in most. My it's been hard to keep this belief, but I do believe long term that that is my calling and that's what I believe in most and that's what I stand for to reach my own unique, holistic potential and help others people, others do the same now here's the deal.

Alan Lazaros:

I gotta believe in that. At level 10, I'm with it. That's my legacy, that's my impact, that's that's great. However, the approach needs to constantly evolve and grow and change, as I do, otherwise you can't get better. So it's unfortunate that we tend to gravitate to books that reconfirm what we already believe. Half the books you ask me to tell you to read, no, you ask me what books to read, and I give you ones that I know will shake your understanding my snow globe yeah, algorithms that live by rationality these books.

Kevin Palmieri:

I enjoyed that. Algorithms live by is a great book nice, it's great rationality.

Alan Lazaros:

You said it's so boring so boring, okay. What do you think of the value?

Kevin Palmieri:

of the book. I'm sure there's so much value in it because it's the opposite of the way I think currently, or it was the opposite. I mean, I'm more rational now than I've been, but it introduces new thoughts that I probably would never have been exposed to and or be willing to digest, and I think that's the thing, right. I'm not even saying that who, not how, is meant to come off as a shortcut. So let me say that, let me put that out there. Let's assume that the was it Benjamin Hardy and somebody else.

Alan Lazaros:

Dan Sullivan. Dan Sullivan, and it was meant to come off as a shortcut.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, let's say it wasn't, though. Okay, even if it wasn't, even if it wasn't meant to come off as a shortcut. How many people find that and then say, ooh, this is a shortcut? That number's probably pretty high. Again, let's give Tim Ferriss the benefit of the doubt. Let's say he didn't write the 4-Hour Workweek to be some sort of shortcut. How many people are going to see that book?

Alan Lazaros:

and not assume it's a shortcut. Well, that's why I said it's an irresponsible title. I'm bleeding Because.

Kevin Palmieri:

I agree. Next Level Nation. We are very, very excited to announce that we are doing our first purely virtual Next Level Live. On April 5th 2025, from 10 am to 4 pm Eastern Standard Time, alan and myself will be live streaming from Worcester, massachusetts.

Alan Lazaros:

Next Level, live 2025. Be there, it's only $47 for a full day of personal development, self-improvement, holistic health, wealth, life and love.

Kevin Palmieri:

We have a global audience. Obviously, if you live somewhere else in the world, it's hard to come across the country or across the world for a one-day event, so we wanted to make sure it was accessible to everyone.

Alan Lazaros:

You're not going to get to the next level of your life by default. You're going to get there by design. Join us, design that next level. There's a person I'm thinking of I'll keep it anonymous who I do not like. I'm not a fan of this person and way, way, way back this is probably nine years ago I had read the 4-Hour Workweek and this person was talking about how they read that book too and how they loved it. And I remember, as I went on this sort of self-improvement, personal development, personal growth journey, I started to realize what books people read and I would notice their levels of success.

Alan Lazaros:

And there's certain books that, okay, let me share this. If I were to ask what your favorite books are, there's a tell in that. If you were to say Four Hour Work Week is your favorite book, that would tell me something. That would tell me that you either really understand why that title is what it is and you really picked it up not to work less but to actually exponentialize your growth more or you're someone who looks for shortcuts inherently, and that's why tim got you to read the book. This person is a shortcutter big time he's. He's a who, not hower. He's a networker. He is a chameleon. I think he's inauthentic. I'm not a fan of this person. Again, I'll keep it anonymous. But I remember thinking, of course you love that book Because that's what you are. You want big rewards for minimal effort and you take advantage of other people, and that's who you are. And I'm not saying that everyone who reads that book is that way. I I get it. I just there's certain things you have to understand in in that If someone says man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl is their favorite book, that tells me a lot about them. It does. It's a tell, and that book is about digging deep into your true suffering and trying to create a meaningful life through adversity. There's a certain tell the the listeners is bring you on this journey of. Okay, what's this about?

Alan Lazaros:

One of the reasons why the Conscious Couples podcast is so hard for me, but also so good for me, is because it forces me to learn about things that I wouldn't normally study. Emilia studies emotional maturity and emotional regulation and conscious parenting and trauma and all these things that I didn't naturally want to study. I wanted to study rationality and the compound effect and atomic habits and productivity and the goal systems thinking. And then I go to this podcast with her and we do these events and it's oh Shit. I've never considered Okay. One tiny example did an rt event yesterday. She pulls up on, she does the content, I, we do it together, but she curates it, she pulls up on the slide. What's the difference between mistreatment and abuse?

Alan Lazaros:

I had never looked that up before in my entire life same mistreatment, according to the definitions and again we all have our own meanings is accidental. I accidentally mistreated Kevin because I was going through it and I said he was a dingus or something. I didn't, but you know what I'm saying. And then abuse is when you actually are maliciously taking advantage of someone, and you and I have talked about people in this industry. Some of them are malicious and actually taking advantage of people and we can't stand it and they're toxic. And other people are just kind of delusional and unintentionally hurting people without knowing it, maybe because of an irresponsible title, and there's a big difference between those two things this is a it's a tough thing because there is value in all of the books that we talked about yeah but it's a different level of value for a different level of person.

Kevin Palmieri:

I've different level of value for a different type of person. I don't want to say different level or different value of person. A lot of the people I've talked to that like those books are wealthy. So, yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, you probably shouldn't be doing all of the stuff. You should probably delegate that because you have a lot of money, right? So that makes total sense for you. That's 100% that makes sense.

Kevin Palmieri:

But again, yeah, cool, it's something to aspire to, it's something to have in the beginning. It's just, let's say, it's the majority of the answer for some people and it's not the majority of the answer for other people, and you just have to make sure you're on the right side of that, that's all. This is a self-awareness thing. If you read that book and you say I don't even know what delegation is, I've never even heard of that before, cool, good, you're going to learn a lot If you read that book because you're trying to figure out how do I get super rich so I can skip all the other steps and I can just do the four hours, yeah, you're probably going to be in for a long road and it's up to you, from a place of self-awareness, I won't read the four, the four hour work week. I'm not interested, I don't want to read it.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, cause I don't want to know most of the principles Fair. There are some good principles in it.

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't want any of it to unintentionally be absorbed into me and then take things that I'm doing that are working and convince me that I should be doing something different, because I just don't think it's time to do that right now. That's all.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, and for anyone out there who hasn't read these books, I'm not even saying not to read them. I'm saying read them, and read them with a grain of salt and read them, understanding that it's one part of the equation, because I read it too, and what got you here won't necessarily get you there. And so these people that have grinded for a decade, done it, doing it all themselves, and got to a certain level. Now they're stuck at that level because they need to learn who, not how, and delegate, automate, procrastinate, all that stuff. So that's one thing that's really, really critical, and this will be what I'll end with.

Alan Lazaros:

I was on a podcast earlier. These are two older gentlemen and it's the Mindful CEO is the name of the podcast and they were talking about the duality between grind your face off, hustle culture and sit in a cave and meditate and manifest, and I really appreciated that that. But these guys are guys that are in their late 40s, early 50s. They're both very clearly successful statistically, and I said something along the lines of the four-hour work week or something like that, and and oh, I said this, this is what I said earlier I had a client once. I told them this. I said I had a client once who I used to work with, who I don't work with anymore and again, I'll keep it anonymous, of course and I actually respect and admire this person a lot as a human being. I'm a big fan but this mentality is definitely not good.

Alan Lazaros:

She's in her 20s mid 20s now, but early 20s when she said, well, alan, I don't really want to trade my time for money. And I remember thinking to myself, like you're in your early 20s, name me someone in their early 20s who doesn't trade their time for money. Like what does that even mean? Right? And what she's trying to say is she wants to make a course and have it go passive and all this stuff. And I just know that that's not going to work because bernie brown can do that, because bernie brown's 50 and she has a brand and she's been doing this for decades. Like you can't just start there. I mean it's just an irrational and irresponsible way to think. Now I'm not, I'm not trying to crush her dreams.

Alan Lazaros:

Eventually you could. Eventually you could absolutely have all passive you could, could create a nest egg. I have multimillionaire clients who are creating a nest egg so that they don't have to work, so that they can retire at 40. That's a fact. But you're not going to do that by. They put it this way they all trade their time for money constantly to build the nest egg to be able to do that, and so and this person, by the way, is broke. And that makes sense, because mentality creates action. Action creates outcome. If your mentality and your belief system and your awareness is off, you're not going to get results. And that's why you knew I'd lose the fitness show. My mentality was off and you knew it. If you have a compass that's skewed, you're gonna go off course and then justify it when reality. You need a book to realign your compass and, unfortunately, you have to have the humility to say you know what.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's got to be something to this book that I don't want to read one of my favorite books ever is the Art of Thinking Clearly, and I don't know if there was a single tactic in that book. It was just all cognitive biases and steeper understanding. I enjoyed it because I feel like it taught me more about me than anything else, but I'm weird with that. I like self-awareness. That's always been my favorite stuff to learn about.

Alan Lazaros:

For anyone in book club. We've been on that book for a minute, really long time.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's a hundred chapters.

Alan Lazaros:

It's a long one, and well it's. It's not that long, but there's a hundred chapters and we only do five per and kev 20 weeks. Not everyone knows the cognitive biases. I know many of you do. But what is your take as someone who didn't know the cognitive biases? And now you do for sure, and you try to override yours, to be more rational and intelligent? Um, what would you say about them?

Kevin Palmieri:

Oh man, I'm not. A single thing in the world is is not by design. Like every. Everything you see all day, every day, is reverse engineered, based on psychology from the colors on the mcdonald's sign to the reason walmart numbers their prices end in a certain number, to the reason people say you have to buy this now or the price is going up. Every single one of those is most likely based on some level of bias and it is dictating your behavior to a very deep degree.

Alan Lazaros:

And no matter what you do, do not spend a lot of time in casinos, because it's just a giant cognitive bias. You can't. No clocks, no windows.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's cold. That's all by design.

Alan Lazaros:

They give free alcohol, yeah, so that you keep gambling. There's a lot of really smart ATM at every corner.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, there's a lot of really smart people out there that can think like we want to get certain results. How do we get those results Like, oh, cognitive biases and psychology, because humans are all very different but we all tend to think relatively similarly. That's kind of the tragedy of being a human, I suppose.

Alan Lazaros:

I've tried really hard to be as rational as humanly possible.

Kevin Palmieri:

Not me.

Alan Lazaros:

That is my most irrelatable character trait probably.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, it has its upsides for sure. I would say so yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

It has its downsides too, but Choices what doesn't, what doesn't All right has its upsides, for sure I would say so, yeah, I try to. Has its downsides too, but choices, what doesn't, what doesn't all right. If you are listening to this and you're into growth and you want to grow, you're, you're good, you're fine. Let me find my community awesome, but I also want to put in some hard work. Next level, live 2025, is going to have both. It will have community and you can grow from your living room, your dining room, your, your bedroom, whatever your yacht. If you are somebody who has generational wealth, I doubt you'll be tuning in because you'll hate us because we talk badly about you. But not badly, not badly, not always in the most positive light if you're a dingo. Now, if you're from generational wealth and you're awesome and you take care of your community, hell yeah, hell yeah to you.

Kevin Palmieri:

Come join the event Big fan, come join the event. It's our first totally virtual event. Tickets are $47 and you get access to the replay. My brain is slowly leaving me right now, because we're 8.30 at night right now, on a Friday. You get access to the replay. That way, if something comes up on a Saturday, you don't have to stay for the whole thing. You can pop in and out and if you miss the end of it, it's all good, we'll give you access to the replay and you can watch it.

Alan Lazaros:

It is going to be a life-changing day. Not just for everyone who attends, but for Kevin, amy, myself, emilia will be there. Kevin's wife, taryn will be there. She will be virtually.

Kevin Palmieri:

Please join us.

Alan Lazaros:

The people that you surround yourself with is a big part of the equation. It's a really big part of the equation. I have several clients that are coming. They're super pumped to be around. We're making growth cool and if you want to make growth cool with us, please join us. It's only 47 and I promise you it will be a life-changing day.

Kevin Palmieri:

As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and at nlu, we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow keep it next level, next level nation thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you.

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Head Shot

Alan Lazaros

Host
Head Shot

Kevin Palmieri

Host