Next Level University

Have You Ever Thought About Life Like This Before? (2036)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What if life isn’t a race to the finish, but a game you’re meant to keep playing? In today’s powerful episode, Kevin and Alan unpack the idea of infinite vs. finite games—and why growth, success, and fulfillment don’t have a finish line. From self-belief to goal-setting to avoiding the trap of short-term wins, they explore how your mindset shapes everything. You’ll hear real stories, memorable metaphors, and practical ways to shift from “arriving” to striving with purpose.

Learn more about:
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Any of these communities or resources are FREE to join and consume
Next Level Nation - https://www.facebook.com/groups/459320958216700
Next Level 5 To Thrive (free course) - ​​https://bit.ly/3xffver
Next Level U Book Club - https://bit.ly/3BQBYDr

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

Instagram 📷
Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:32) Finite Vs. Infinite games explained
(5:19) Why infinite thinking matters
(8:10) Growth mindset starts with belief
(11:30) Lessons from playing too safe
(16:46) Purpose behind fitness goals
(18:38) Join the Next Level Podcast Accelerator: Podcasters growing together. Level up your self, podcast, and business. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
(22:09) Suffering by choice, not default
(24:07) Grit beats regret every time
(28:58) The cost of not evolving
(31:16) Balancing growth, contribution, and life
(36:21) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

One of the things we've been talking a lot about lately is arriving versus striving.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I said this on a podcast the other day. I said one of the reasons I think we're more consistent than the average podcast is because for us, we're always thinking of the fact that we're striving and, essentially, we will never arrive. So it doesn't matter how many episodes we have, it doesn't matter how much quote-unquote success we have. We are in the process of trying to play an infinite game, which means you play that game forever and, no matter how good you are at it, you never win the game.

Alan Lazaros:

Essentially, If I was ever in a room with a hundred people and I asked the audience a question and I said, who here wants to reach their own unique potential, everybody's hand would go up up. However, when you are trying to reach your potential, that is a mountain that gets higher as you climb it, because the moment that you get to a goal, you realize okay, there's more, I'm capable of more, I'm capable of more. Every record gets broken. Eventually. It's like that. First four minute mile is impossible. Someone does the four minute mile. Now high schoolers are doing it. So your potential is an infinite game and we're going to talk about that today.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host.

Alan Lazaros:

Kevin Palmieri, and I'm your co-host, alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Alan Lazaros:

Welcome to Next.

Kevin Palmieri:

Level University, next Level Nation. Today for episode number 2036. Have you ever thought about life like this before? I hadn't for the vast majority of my life until I was probably I don't know 29, 30, something like that. We're talking about infinite versus finite, games and life and how it connects and how yes, eventually I'm going to go dark here right off the top. Eventually you're going to pass away. We're all going to pass away eventually. So we don't have an infinite amount of time. But essentially, if the goal is to get as good as you can get, if the goal is to be as successful as you can be, as fulfilled as you can be, you never really cross a mark where it's like okay, that's it, I'm as successful as I can be.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's really no such thing as that in the grand scene of things. So I'm going to kick it to Alan, because this is Alan's topic more than it is mine, and I'm going to adjust my mic after I kick it to Alan because it's out here.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay. So there's a book called the Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, and shout out to Mark in Book Club. He recommended that book a while back. We have yet to read it in Book Club, but he said it was a great book. I ended up reading it.

Alan Lazaros:

I concur, and again, read it with a grain of salt. It's not the whole spectrum. Every book needs to be taken as its own sort of part of the spectrum, not the whole thing. So, infinite game versus finite game In the book, what he's trying to articulate is that business is actually an infinite game versus finite game. In the book, what he's trying to articulate is that business is actually an infinite game but we treat it like a finite game, and that's the problem.

Alan Lazaros:

So first let's describe infinite game and finite game and this, this you can research game theory. I've been researching chaos theory and game theory and constraint theory and all these things since I was very young. I was always very fascinated by all this In-game theory, a finite game. I've been talking a lot about chess lately. Emilia and I are going to be playing chess this week, this weekend, and that was part of our. We each pick one thing each week that we want to look forward to. And mine was one game of chess with Emilia. And okay, a finite game is one match of chess. Let say I were to pray, pray. Well, let's say I were to play kevin in chess. Yeah, it's late, it's late. Let's say I was to play kevin in chess. That's a finite game. A finite game has rules, it has boundaries, it has, it has a winner and a loser.

Kevin Palmieri:

I would be the winner.

Alan Lazaros:

We are not actually playing.

Kevin Palmieri:

I would hope so. If you played me in chess, I would hope you'd beat me. I have to assume it would be bad for me.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, who knows right, maybe you're a sneaky, awesome chess player? No, okay, and again, I'm not necessarily anything special either. It depends. There's levels to everything. Okay, I'm not necessarily anything special either. It depends. There's levels to everything. Okay, that's a finite game. The rules are there. It's a finite amount of time. It's a finite game. There's a winner and a loser Okay, an infinite game. So playing one chess match is a finite game. Becoming the best chess player that you can personally be is an infinite game. You don't ever arrive. There is no chess player in the world who can't get better.

Kevin Palmieri:

Sell me on the importance of this concept Nice.

Alan Lazaros:

If you play. Okay, life is a series of finite games within an infinite game. So, for example, back to the chess metaphor okay, whether it's podcasting or chess, or your career, a lot of people do. They treat things like the end-all, be-all, when in reality it's a, it's one brick to the building, it's one drop in the ocean, it's one grain of sand in the sands of time. No, but seriously, one of the reasons why finite thinking is so dangerous is because money is not finite. Money is an infinite game. I know it sounds like it's not and it certainly doesn't feel like it is. Okay, I understand, but for example, let me give you an example. For example, let me give you an example. This is going well.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, if this was the 1930s, you, in your current lifestyle, would be considered the highest quality of life of any human on planet earth. So the human species has evolved over time. Iphones didn't exist 100 years ago. The internet didn't exist 100 years ago. It's a bunch of finite games. The iphone is a finite thing. But the pursuit of better and better phones, the pursuit of better and better. But the pursuit of better and better phones, the pursuit of better and better people, the pursuit of better and better economics, the pursuit of better and better cameras, the pursuit of better and better films. That's infinite.

Alan Lazaros:

And so if you treat your potential finite, you're screwed, because it's a fixed mindset. That's the truth. A finite mindset means if Kevin gets money, that means I lose. It's a zero-sum game. But that's not true. Kevin's win is not my loss, unless we're playing a direct finite game.

Alan Lazaros:

If you and I play horse together at the Next Level Hope Foundation event, which we did, there's a winner and a loser. But that doesn't mean you suck and you lose forever. That means next time you play you can get better, and I think that's the detriment is people with finite thinking. They hurt each other and they hurt themselves because they're playing in a very scarce world. Now we talked on the last episode about scarcity versus abundance, and I tend to be overly abundant. This is why I think in an infinite game, my career is not predicated on just this moment. My career is a building. This moment is building. My career is not predicated on just this moment. My career is a building. This moment is building my career, and that's, I think, the best way to put it is each chess match is one building block in becoming a chess master, and that's the metaphor that I hope people are taking, the mindset people are taking when it comes to their potential and their career and how much wealth they can build, and their relationship.

Kevin Palmieri:

That kind of thing. So essentially it's just fixed mindset versus growth mindset in the simplest form.

Alan Lazaros:

Yes.

Kevin Palmieri:

In the simplest, simplest, simplest form. Yeah, based on all the conversations we've had recently and forever about belief, do you think someone can have a growth mindset without belief?

Alan Lazaros:

No, Self-belief Not anymore Same. Someone asked me think someone can have a growth mindset without belief? No, self-belief, not anymore. Same. Someone asked me recently this is a client. She said so it all just comes down to goals. Huh, I said close, it all comes down to belief, because without belief you won't have goals. But it does. It comes down to belief. If you don't have self-belief, you won't set a goal. If you don't set a goal, there's no opportunity cost.

Alan Lazaros:

There's no playing to win, there's only playing not to lose well, all of us all of us do have a goal, it's just unconscious back in the day oh sorry, go ahead.

Kevin Palmieri:

I thought you were done. I'll do it one more time, probably go.

Alan Lazaros:

It's all good, this is good I appreciate it, because usually it's me interrupting you back in the day day. You didn't have any goals, quote, unquote. But you did have unconscious goals. You wanted to date a hot girl, you wanted to get a dream car. Like, everyone has goals. They just maybe aren't written or conscious, or real, I mean, those weren't.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's a difference. What's the difference between a goal and a fantasy? Those are very different things.

Alan Lazaros:

Right, there's a difference between a goal, a dream and a fantasy. I think those are very different things. What did you think? Because when I first met you, you were a finite thinker and now I think you're uh, you do dance between infinite and finite, which I think is really important. The best thinkers for lack of better phrasing think both finite and infinite. So I'm thinking finite right now of wanting this episode to go. Really well, but this episode is one building block in a greater tapestry of our careers. Yeah, do you think about it like that?

Alan Lazaros:

More now than I used to, but yeah, back in the day it was like, if this goes poorly, I think we're done forever.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I think it's so much of it's emotional, so much of it's emotional in the moment of oh, if this goes wrong, I'm gonna feel bad, and if I feel bad I'm not gonna want to do this again, and if I don't do this again, it's a whole thing. For anybody on youtube who sees alan looking to the left we're having some, some sound issues, so he quite literally has to monitor his sound for the entirety of this episode. I had to do it before. There's a little sneaky part of me that is not glad, but I'm happy he's doing it so he knows what it takes, because I had to do it and it was like dude, that was terrible.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm impressed.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's terrible.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm impressed with you in the past because in the past Kev had to hold his mic input level for several episodes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, you're gonna. You're gonna get it tonight. Unfortunately for anyone out there watching or listening. If you did listen to episode 2035 yes, I was doing it for that whole episode too, and hopefully you didn't you didn't even know. Yeah, hopefully you didn't even know, although I thought about this too. You know. The metaphor I used in my head was athletes play injured all the time nobody even knows right fighters, they're injured all the time.

Alan Lazaros:

Nobody even knows Right Fighters they're injured all the time. All the time. Yeah, I mean, when you're in the gym, no one knows that my ankle hurts or my left knee was tweaked a little bit. You just have to do what you got to do. You never know. Everything's different from the inside out than the outside in, but that's not what we're here to talk about today. What we're here to talk about today, what we're here to talk about today, is infinite versus finite. In hindsight, brother, what were the detriments of you thinking?

Kevin Palmieri:

so finite, Didn't take many shots because I was afraid that if the shot went wrong, everything would go wrong. That I think it's, that it's your Right now. I'm living in this moment, I'm living for the now. But the reason I'm living In this moment, I'm living for the now. But the reason I'm living for the now is because the now adds up to forever, as opposed to in the past. I'm living for now because now is all that matters, and if I don't survive now, I'm not going to do this forever. But I think it's just a. If you have a lack of belief Again, this is like the number one pillar at NLU is self-belief.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah 100% the amount of self-belief you have, the amount of confidence you have and your unique capability to achieve something in the external world. That dictates. This is a really good example of that to a degree. Really good, it's a really good example of that to a degree. So, alan and I last week this week, technically, but last week, if you're listening to this episode we've been going on podcasts together and we used to do that all the time Back in the day. We used to do it all the time. We stopped doing it for a long time just because it's hard to our schedules don't always align. It's a whole thing. And this week we went on two and after the second one I called alan. I said, brother, I had a massive breakthrough. And he's like what, what's, what do you got? And I said I would never get invited to podcasts like that on my own yeah, why do you think that?

Kevin Palmieri:

is why because I'm not that type of person, I'm not Type A. I don't think I look good on paper. I think my story, I have a good story, I have an impactful story. A lot of people want to talk about my story and I appreciate that. I'm always grateful and privileged to do that. But outside of that, I don't have a great resume. I didn't. I think it. Yeah, I'm not type A, so I don't think type A people resonate with me and, very honestly, I usually don't resonate with type A people either.

Alan Lazaros:

That's changing, though now it is, and I I think that's really important, man, because I when I was and I still am, but like the type A, type B thing, and again, take this with a grain of salt we're not. It's obviously an oversimplification, you're not an achiever, or not?

Kevin Palmieri:

an achiever.

Alan Lazaros:

It's a spectrum right. And again, take this with a grain of salt, it's obviously an oversimplification. You're not an achiever or not an achiever. It's a spectrum, right. Oh, you're blue collar, white collar, you're up, you're down. I mean, that's not what we're doing here, but what I will say is that I used to resonate a lot with achievers and I now have learned I resonate a lot. I think my whole life. I've always resonated a lot with people that are and are not achievers, although I do think that a lot of people were pretending to be achievers around me. So maybe that was part of it.

Alan Lazaros:

But yeah, back to the infinite and finite thing. When you have a lot of self-belief, you tend to be very optimistic about the future because you feel very in control of it. There's something to that. Maybe this is another episode we'll do at some point. How in control of your own future do you feel? That's a very important thing, like when we were at next level live.

Alan Lazaros:

I said, okay, now this is gonna. I'm gonna get kevin to sound cocky. Hey, kev, zero to ten. How certain are you? You can lose 10 pounds in 10 weeks? You're like 10, said see, all his brain did was okay, I know how to do it. I've done it before. I can do it again. Here's the calculation less calories, more exercise, boom, boom, boom, boom done. That's why I think I often come off arrogant is because I'm just calculating it.

Alan Lazaros:

There's certain things at NLU that are going very well for us. Those things are things that we strategized about years ago Sometimes months ago, but years ago and there's things that I said would happen for us years ago that are now happening and Kev's like, oh, and vice versa. And then there's certain things not going so well and then we have to figure out why. Okay, well, obviously I was missing something. So the infinite and finite game thing if you have low self-belief, you're automatically going to be playing not to lose, to the point of the last episode and you're going to be playing a finite game. When you go to play chess with someone, is your fear losing? I'm only playing to try to get better. I actually like playing people better than me well, yeah, you're on the way.

Kevin Palmieri:

You're on the very, very far end of that, though, again, I don't ever. I I tell Alan this all the time I don't think the goal is ever to get to Alan's end fully Like. For me specifically, it's like I'm not trying to get all the way to your end.

Alan Lazaros:

When we were playing basketball together, was your goal not to lose or was your goal to win?

Kevin Palmieri:

Neither I didn't really have it was I don't really have it was I don't know. It was probably to win but to have fun, like I didn't care whether I won or lost. It was a fucking pickup basketball game at a YMCA with kids and I don't care that much.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, let's do a different one. You and I talked behind the scenes recently. You're doing 10 pounds in 10 weeks, or whatever. You're on a cut. You're doing 10 pounds in 10 weeks or whatever. You're on a cut. You're trying to get to 160, 180, 170.

Kevin Palmieri:

170 and then we'll see.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, okay, you're playing. That's a finite game. Getting from where you are now to 170 is a finite game. Great, okay, now what? Now you're 170.

Kevin Palmieri:

Now what.

Alan Lazaros:

Now I gain weight again. Okay, all right, and then how much? How?

Kevin Palmieri:

much. Here's the thing. I don't know yet because I'm going to try to do a very, very lean bulk, so I don't know I'm going to see what if someone came to you and said what the fuck is the point? Man, you're just going to the point is to change body composition Eventually. The point is to change body composition Eventually. The point is to weigh the same amount but to have more muscle. That is the point of bodybuilding. Why.

Alan Lazaros:

What's the point of that?

Kevin Palmieri:

Because it's better for your metabolism. It allows you to eat more. There's longevity involved.

Alan Lazaros:

You look jacked Okay, so why does any of that matter? Because, I'm vain. You're ruining the game. You're ruining the game. No, there's purpose behind that, because you want to be around for taryn.

Kevin Palmieri:

You know I'll live longer and I'll and I'll be more capable, hopefully, and I my grandmother when she was I don't know how old she was when she fell and broke her hip. She fell and broke her hip and she almost died. I don't want that to happen to me. I want to be somebody who can do a really good job of taking care of myself, and I think exercise and fitness is definitely one way for sure. And I don't know what the studies are, but there is studies associated with muscle the amount of muscle you have and longevity.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't know what they are off the top of my head.

Kevin Palmieri:

So my thought process is if I can continue to recomp, recomposition my body, we'll be healthier.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, and there's actually a direct correlation in the research between quad strength and longevity, because that's the majority or a large percentage of older people that die from falling and breaking a hip.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, and so if you have good quads, percentage of older people that die from falling and breaking a hip, and so if you have good quads, you don't tend to do that. Okay, next Level Nation, we would love to invite you to our 18th round of Next Level Group Coaching. It is the Next Level Podcast Accelerator. If you are a podcaster who wants to level yourself up, level your podcast up and level your business up, this 12-week program is perfect for you.

Alan Lazaros:

So we've done this 18 times. We've iterated and iterated and improved and improved. The first four weeks is level up yourself. The next four weeks is level up your podcast. The last four weeks is level up your business. Build a brand underneath your business. The promo code is NLULISTENER all one word. Put that in at checkout for 30% off. It comes to less than $25 per session for the 12 sessions. Kevin or I will be on every single one of them. We hope to see you there. So okay, well, what's the point in living longer? Like we can play this game forever.

Alan Lazaros:

I can just keep asking questions and eventually you're going to get to the inevitable answer of my quality of life will be higher overall. That's eventually where I'm going to get you, because that's why any of us do anything. The problem is we're playing the game wrong. Some people are playing checkers, some people are playing chess, some people aren't playing any games They've opted out. A lot of people are very nihilistic and they say well, what's the point in exercising? We're all going to die anyway.

Kevin Palmieri:

Why wouldn't I smoke these cigarettes? Cigarettes, we're all gonna die anyway. Well, if that's the case, then why do anything? Should we all just wake up and sit in our own fill? You know, I do some days. You know what I was thinking yesterday I was. I have this like I don't know. Something happened to me and I've just been eating the same thing every night and I'm like super fucking excited about it. I just have ground beef, a whole bag of brus sprouts and then some sort of carbohydrate, nice. And yesterday Taryn called me and she said hey, I'm stopping at the grocery store, do you need anything? And I said if I told you what I had for dinner, it would make you physically ill.

Alan Lazaros:

And she said what do you?

Kevin Palmieri:

mean I said I had ground beef mixed with Brussels sprouts and I had four slices of dry toasted sourdough bread. Nothing on them, nice.

Alan Lazaros:

Sick girl.

Kevin Palmieri:

And she's like why? What did you put in it? I don't know, I just felt like eating it. That's what I wanted. I just wanted that, I don't know. I was craving it for some reason. And after that I was thinking okay, let's say, hypothetically speaking. Now, again, this is up for your interpretation. Hypothetically speaking, suffering is required. Let's say, in this box I'm building a finite box right now, I'll connect it to the episode even Finite box. In this box, suffering is mandatory. Would you rather suffer either in place or backwards, or would you rather suffer upwards and onwards right now?

Kevin Palmieri:

nice I am choosing the suffering towards goals. I again it either happens now or it happens eventually. Either you, you pinch your purse straps is that what people say? Pinch pennies. Whatever it is Now and you tighten the purse strings. Tighten the purse strings. Thank you so much.

Alan Lazaros:

Pinch the purse straps. Pinch the purse straps.

Kevin Palmieri:

You live under your means, so eventually you could save money and eventually you can live at your means and a little bit higher. That is kind of my new thought of well, I would rather suffer by choice in a positive direction as opposed to suffering through being stuck or or sliding backwards and I think that's an infinite perspective it is.

Alan Lazaros:

It's the less. We said this at next level live too, and I want to share this with all the listeners as I struggle with my finger going numb holding yeah it's brutal, it's not great. We have another episode after this too. Yes, we do, but we're here for the listeners suffering by choice toward goals and dreams and service. Okay, at next level, live. We were asked why grit, why be, why suffer? What's the point? Right, and it's a valid question. Let's actually contemplate it. Let's actually do this. Let's, let's have this conversation.

Kevin Palmieri:

Right.

Alan Lazaros:

And it's a valid question. Let's actually contemplate it, let's actually do this, let's have this conversation right. I think it was Emilia that asked the question.

Alan Lazaros:

It was Emilia that asked the question, and I said, the truth is and I'm going to tagline I'm going to piggyback a quote that I love on top of my answer. On top of my answer the people who are sacrificing, struggling and suffering and grinding toward their goals and dreams will always be the envy of the people sitting around feeling sorry for themselves. Okay, I've been on the other end, see. I've been on the end of complacency and sitting around feeling sorry for myself while I watched other people live out their dreams.

Kevin Palmieri:

I have been there and it fucking blows.

Alan Lazaros:

And if anyone is there, I see you. I've been there too and you can turn it all around. I've seen it happen. I've done it. Okay, I was up at 4am watching videos, hating my fucking self and my life. Okay, so you can turn it around. You can turn it around. It's not going to happen overnight, but day by day, brick by brick, you can achieve your dream body. You can achieve your dream, achieve your dream life. You can achieve your dream relationship, believe it or not. I struggled to believe that one and you can totally do it. But it's not going to be easy and it's not going to happen overnight. Okay, she said well, why grit? What's the point Like? How do you, how do you push through suffering? And I said, honestly, I'm not going to give you the rah, rah. It's worth it, it's going to be great, it's all going to work out. I'm going to give you the truth. It's better than the alternative. It's just better than the alternative.

Alan Lazaros:

Why did you do the marathon when it was so painful, alan? It's better than giving up and not believing in myself as much, because then I'd have to spend the rest of my goddamn life saying I almost crossed the finish line. I did a triathlon once. It was up a hill. I'll never forget it. I hit the wall. I had never done a triathlon before and I was suffering on another level because I did not train for this. I was up until 2 am. I ate McDonald's the night before my own fault, okay. All the night before my own fault, okay, all my fault. Truth be told, show up. Never trained for it. Let's rock and roll. I tend to be reckless. I'm coming up this hill okay, this is a half mile swim. This is a 14 mile bike 13 or 14, and then it's a 5k. Okay, I'm two-thirds through this 5k and I'm coming up a hill and the sun hits me around this bend and it is just every cell in my being wanted to quit. I'm talking. If I was gonna quit, it would have been right fucking. Then and I said Alan, the alternative is worse. You're not gonna spend the rest of your fucking life regretting the fact that you quit. You will suffer for a purpose. You said you were going to do this. It's game time Now. I don't want this to be toxic masculinity. I want this to be the truth. My highest self came in and said Alan, you can fucking do this. You can do this and I was right. Highest self was right. I did it. Okay, it wasn't perfect, but I came in two minutes behind the person who had done a ton of triathlons and I did a good job and I'm so proud of myself.

Alan Lazaros:

It's you versus you. I did a 5k this past summer. I came in 42nd or something you versus you but I did better than the day before, the year before. We're going to do it again this year. I'm going to beat my time. It's you versus you.

Alan Lazaros:

It's an infinite game. It's finite games within an infinite game. One 5K, one marathon, one triathlon, one podcast episode, one coaching session those are all finite games. But it builds you. Everything you do and don't do Either builds you into the man or woman you aspire to be, or it tears you down, and I used to drink and I used to do all the stuff that was tearing me down. It was it was not building me into my own dream self.

Alan Lazaros:

We all have that potential inside of us.

Alan Lazaros:

We all have that vision of what we could be and what our life could look like.

Alan Lazaros:

And between us now and that future potential is a bunch of finite games, that kind of blow and within an infinite game, and when our life does end because all of us, to Kevin's point, are going to die, one day we're going to face whether or not we reached our true potential, whether or not we gave it our all. And there's a lot of dark stuff happening in the world right now. I know, you know, I know a lot of people know there's a lot of really shady shit going on. And every time Emilia and I have a discussion and she starts talking about how women are being treated and all this stuff and how bad all that is, and I'm with you 1,000%. I sit there and I say, sweetheart, are we doing all we can with all we have? And she said yes, and I say let's keep doing that and let's do it better, because that's what's in our control. What's in our control is doing all you fucking can with all you fucking have with all you fucking have.

Alan Lazaros:

And the truth is, if you can't say you are, one day that's gonna come back and bite you, and I've been there.

Kevin Palmieri:

Kids fired up. Got to Before we go. Obviously I have to ask this question because it wouldn't be good if I didn't. What's the downside of infinite thinking?

Alan Lazaros:

You will fail constantly.

Kevin Palmieri:

That's why you need self-belief. Yes, that is 100, because it that is essentially. You're saying honestly, this game doesn't really matter, I don't really care if I win this game, I'm gonna, as long as I take a lesson from this game that I can use in the next game. And you might lose, like all of the games, while people are watching, and then eventually those people are going to be like I don't want to watch this fucking game anymore. This is terrible. I'm going to go watch something else. But you continue going and you're behind the scenes and you're growing and you're evolving and you're fulfilled and you're getting results you never thought you could. But for the vast majority of it, unfortunately, you're not getting the results you want. And it's this weird freaking thing.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, we, you will. The next level you. There's always a next level. That's an infinite game. There's always a next level. No matter how hard your past has been, no matter how hard your present is, there's always a bigger, better, brighter future. And no matter what, there's always a next level. You're going to cut, then you're going to bulk, then you're going to cut, then you're going to bulk, then you're going to cut, then you're going to bulk, then you're going to cut, then you're going to bulk. Why? What's the point? Because you're trying to reach your potential and it's a mountain that gets higher as you climb it.

Alan Lazaros:

So, to flip the script real quick, what is the upside of not trying to reach your potential? Let's actually talk about the upside of that. There's a huge downside. The downside of not reaching your potential, I do believe, is lack of fulfillment and lack of meaning. I think we've all known what it's like to really not try, and it can be very depressing. I've been there. But what is the upside? You just get to have a lot more fun and you don't really have to have a lot of responsibility, like I would ask you.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, you get a lot of pleasure. The upside is you get pleasure on demand. The upside is you get pleasure on demand for a delayed, inevitable downturn.

Kevin Palmieri:

But it doesn't happen right away, just like success doesn't happen right away. I mean, there are certain things right you drink and then you drive your car. You're an idiot and something bad's going to potentially right that that's. That's an example of that. But outside of that it's like, yeah, you go smoke a joint, go to the beach, awesome, awesome. You want to watch the sunset on the beach smoking a joint fucking awesome, that's great it is great in the moment.

Alan Lazaros:

How many days in a row can you do that before, eventually, your responsibilities start to slide that?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't believe. I think that's all horseradish Talk to me. I know plenty of people that smoke pot. That are fucking high achievers.

Alan Lazaros:

No, no, no, it's not because they're smoking pot. I'm talking like go to the beach every day and neglect your responsibilities.

Kevin Palmieri:

Well, I'm thinking like you walk out, you know you live on the water. You walk out on your porch, you light up a J and you just look at the sunset. Wow, that's then. You go inside, you strap on your Oura ring, you get your earplugs in your mask and then you're off to bed.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, and you're off to bed.

Alan Lazaros:

Well, this is the thing, right? It comes down to those three things. Last piece Growth, contribution, contribution and quality of life. We do have it boiled down to those three. Growth requires sacrifice and struggle and suffering and reaching towards your potential, and finite games that lead to infinite games. Contribution same deal. Quality of life is enjoying the present. There's a way to have all three. There is, but you. There's no way to have all three. There is, but you. There's no way to maximize all three.

Alan Lazaros:

You have a certain syntax and this is what we used to do in group coaching before it became the podcast accelerator. We would, we would say what's your syntax? So, kevin is so if it's growth, contribution, quality of life, kevin is quality of life. No contribution First, quality of life Second, growth, third. For me, it's growth first, contribution second, quality of life third. And Emilia, at one point in our relationship she had to say like we're missing that third one you and I, we don't even have it in our equation Like we need to improve our quality of life. And once I started seeing how poorly I was aging, I started to bump that one up, because I think I've aged like six years in the last three, and I'm typically someone who looks 15, so I got.

Kevin Palmieri:

Somebody gave me some supplements. It's called magnesium mallet or malate nice and I I looked it up, I chat gpt as I was like is this worth taking? What is this? What is this about? Am I gonna die from this? And it said it helps promote restfulness and sleep. And I was like, yeah, well, everything says that. I don't believe a freaking word of it. Back-to-back 85 sleep scores Nice work. One night I only got 7 hours and 20 minutes of sleep and I still pulled an 85.

Kevin Palmieri:

Nice work, so that might be something Very good. I can't tell you to take it because I'm not a doctor. But very good, I can't tell you to take it because I'm not a doctor, but I'm taking it.

Alan Lazaros:

One of my clients does magnesium and also swears by it as well. There you go, all right, cool.

Kevin Palmieri:

Maybe I'll have to look into it. I can send you the one that I have if you'd like. And yeah, yes, please. Anything quickly you'd like to add before we hop on to our next. It's a Friday night right now. The question is how bad do you want it?

Alan Lazaros:

I don't, I want it bad, but I want to go to sleep. Also, I think that stay in construction, stay in the construction zone Like if you over suffer at the expense of yourself, you're going to age poorly, you're not going to get good sleep Like it's not good, you're not. You're not going to reach your potential if you're constantly not taking care of yourself. However, if you're only ever on the beach watching sunsets, you're not going to, you're not going to achieve your dreams either. So there's a way to. There's a way to harmonize growth, contribution and quality of life in the finite game that leads to the infinite game of of doing all you can with all you have. And I'm going to have a family and all that stuff. I want to spend quality time with my family too. So, but it's not going to be nine hours a day, and maybe that is true for some people, maybe that's what they want. But everyone, it's unique. Your own unique version of success, that's it. That's it.

Kevin Palmieri:

My next level lesson would be it is a jar of marbles, Life is a jar of marbles, and I think the hard part is we want to take all of our marbles and we want to put them into one jar. But when you put them all into one jar, the other jars are empty eventually, and those are the jars you want. So I think it's the thing of you know. I don't really want to work that hard. I want a vacation, I want to hang out with my friends, but I do, in 50 years, want to live in a mansion. So well, that's. I think you're only going to get one of those, unfortunately, Unless you're like unbelievably good looking, you could probably get away with it. Like, there's ways, Right?

Alan Lazaros:

There's ways Very rich.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah that, maybe you can do stuff like that, but for the vast majority of us, deeply unfulfilling ways.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, they're most likely deeply unfulfilling ways, but for most of us that's not how it's going to work. And I know people don't like sacrifice. I know that that word oftentimes gets thrown around as something negative. But again it's 9-10 on a Friday. I don't want to do this. I'd rather be in bed snuggling with my wife. I haven't seen my wife. I've been working since 6 am all day. It sucks. But one contribution super, super important. Quality of life is taking a hit. But that's kind of how you think about it Right now. The quality of life in this moment is not great, but contribution is 10 out of 10.

Alan Lazaros:

Growth is high too. I hope we're learning some stuff here. Growth as well. My goodness See, alan got nervous. How dare you.

Kevin Palmieri:

I forgot that one, honestly. Honestly, I was like what's the third one again?

Alan Lazaros:

Two out of three ain't bad. 66% Meatloaf. Meatloaf's a band, yes.

Kevin Palmieri:

We're going to get out of here before Alan starts telling us more about old bands.

Kevin Palmieri:

If you are into classic rock and self-improvement, join our private Facebook group. It's called Next Level Nation Posts every day by the team Alan myself. Amy runs the group. She's crushing it. The team the rest of the team posts in there as well. So if you're looking for a group of like-minded, positive people and you're looking for a daily inspiration, the podcast is, I would say, daily lessons. Facebook group is a little bit easier to digest. You're not really going to have to contemplate life every day in there. Some days it might be like what's your favorite flavor of ice cream. Other days it might be like on a scale of zero to 10, how well are you doing in health, wealth and love? I think that was the most recent post, so we'll have the link below. We'd love to have you there, because growth-minded people with growth-minded people do growth-minded things.

Alan Lazaros:

Nice man.

Kevin Palmieri:

As always, we love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you and NLU. We don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow keep it.

Alan Lazaros:

Next level, next Level.

Kevin Palmieri:

Nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros:

We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

People on this episode

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Alan Lazaros

Host
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Kevin Palmieri

Host