Next Level University

This ONE Thing Made The Biggest Difference (2060)

• Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

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What’s the quiet skill that turns dreamers into doers? In this stirring part two, Kevin and Alan reflect on the simple but often overlooked shift that made all the difference in their journey. They speak honestly about the hard days that still come, even when you're chasing something you love, and how progress is often built in the unnoticed, everyday moments. If you’ve ever felt stuck, unmotivated, or unsure where to begin, this episode will remind you that real growth often starts with what no one sees but you.

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, please check out our website at the link below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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We love connecting with you guys! Reach out on Instagram, Facebook, or via email. We’re here to support you in your personal and professional development journey.

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Kevin: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
Alan: https://www.facebook.com/alan.lazaros
Kevin: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/

Email 💬
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:47) Waking up to hard choices
(5:04) Doing it even when you hate it
(7:28) Stop negotiating with yourself
(10:12) The version of you that won’t succeed
(14:25) Next Level Dreamliner: The planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy: https://a.co/d/9fPpxEt
(16:12) Success comes with invisible costs
(18:26) The myth of easy entrepreneurship
(20:34) Win the battle against yourself first
(24:35) Discipline is a necessary suck
(26:40) Outro

Send a text to Kevin and Alan!

Kevin Palmieri:

It might make you sad to hear this, but I think one of the biggest things that matters when it comes to success is being able to do something that you don't want to do but you know is necessary, because the results are what you're shooting for. So much of what I do on a daily basis I don't necessarily want to do. It's not that I hate it, but I have that so often where it's like I really don't want to do this. But here's a list of five reasons I should, and when I do that I'm more successful.

Alan Lazaros:

I think there's certain things in all of our futures that will not be bigger, better or brighter if we don't make immediate changes in the now and today. I want to talk a little bit more with Kevin about what he had to change to get to his now.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Alan Lazaros:

And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri:

At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros:

Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri:

We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros:

Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri:

Welcome to Next Level University, next Level Nation today for episode number 2060. We're doing a little part two. Why are you smiling? Because of we had funnies. Yeah, yeah, we had some. A little part two. Why are you smiling? Because of we had funnies. Yeah, yeah, we had some funnies happen before this Episode number 2060,.

Kevin Palmieri:

This is part two, based on what we did yesterday. This one thing made the biggest difference for us. We finished yesterday's episode and I said Alan, I still have one more I want to add. So the thought was, yesterday's episode was the truth about what you need to change in order to be more successful. This is probably the biggest one. I had a moment Saturday. Okay, so last week was a freaking busy week. Friday worked 6am till 6pm and I count the gym as work. If you don't and you think that's wrong, I don't care, I have to count it. It's part of the brand and it's work. It is it's work. So, 12-hour day Drove an hour and a half down to Matt's, stopped and picked up food. Got five guys Ate within my calories though, so all good, stayed up until midnight, played some Call of Duty. No fries, I did get fries. I got one burger and fries Kind of sucks. I was freaking, starving after.

Alan Lazaros:

You got to go with double burger. No fries.

Kevin Palmieri:

We were discussing that. I was like nah dude, I'd rather have fries, so I'll suffer a little bit, but I'm going to have fries and again, again. Like all things considered, I get to have five guys, so it could be worse. So we went to bed at midnight or one, and we were, of course, g bacon and chi bacon wasn't crispy. Fuck that. I was so angry. It's like what it's like. No, I can't eat. I can't eat soggy beef especially when it's extra calories.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's tough. I thought I took it off, hadoukened it right into the right.

Alan Lazaros:

Did you really?

Kevin Palmieri:

I had to. Good for you, I had to. We were getting ready for bed and I was like all right, man, I'll see you. What time are you getting up? Are you getting up early? And Matt was like I don't know, man, I'll probably aim for like seven hours of sleep, he to do. Man, you have so much work to do. If I don't work tomorrow, I'm gonna, I'm in trouble.

Kevin Palmieri:

Alarm goes off at six and I was like fuck this, this is terrible news for me and I had you ever have a list of stuff? That's like you have five things that are like really deep work and they take a long time to get into and there's just like you can't hit flow because there's so many things you have to do within the thing. All the time I had like five of those and I had a moment at like 6 30 when I had a coffee in hand ready to go where I was like I do not want to do this today at all. I do not want to do this at all. This is freaking terrible. And then I had this moment where I said, well, this you have to like nobody else is gonna it. You said yes to all of these things Like you have to push through and you have to do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

And I think that's probably the biggest differentiator between where I used to be and where I it off, and I put it off until I my back was against the wall and I had to study because I just didn't want to study. So I just kept pushing, putting it off, putting it off. You can't really do that when you're chasing your dreams, because you'll put it off forever. There's no, there's no deadlines, there's no one there to tell you to do it, and it doesn't seem like there's an immediate downside, but the immediate downside is happening all the time.

Kevin Palmieri:

That one thing, whatever that is, you can say F your feelings, whatever the label is for you, right? I don't? That sounds toxic, I don't mean it in that way, but the ability to know that something must be done and for you to do it even when you just don't want to. There's something to that and I think that's the thing, because, as a dream chaser, we fall into this. Well, I only want to do what I want, or the reason I started to be a dream chaser so I could do what I want. I understand Same, and I do get to do a lot of what I want, but what I want to do is always surrounded by a bunch of small things that I don't, and I think that's like a master skill if you can get there.

Alan Lazaros:

Nice. Yeah, thank you. I remember I said this on an episode, I believe, last week, and I said the science of achievement doesn't give a shit about how you feel. Unfortunately, unfortunately, I'm not saying that's a good thing, it's just the truth. I don't know if you can achieve, I guess I'll say, big goals, and big goals are relative. Yeah, there's no way you cannot achieve big goals without doing things you don't want to do.

Alan Lazaros:

I don't think so. No, I'll go into the gym and Emilio will say what are we doing today? Because she'll lead, or I'll lead, depending on who has more in the tank Usually me, because I'm ahead in fitness. I've been doing it a lot longer and it depends on who's in the gym, it depends what's taken. So the moment I get into the gym, yeah, I have an idea, I have a roadmap, but the moment the squat rack is taken or the bench is taken, I have to pivot. Okay, we're doing dumbbell today instead. I don't want to, but we either do chest day push day is what we call it or we. There's a question that one of the Kevin and I were on a podcast. We had him on our podcast too. Do you remember the question, guy? That's good branding right there, the fact that you might come up with it, mark.

Alan Lazaros:

Champagne Nice, that's good branding. The question guy.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think I remember Well, yeah, yeah. But I also remember it because there was very few people that we had on and that were on ours. That was a piece of it, that's a great point, Mark.

Alan Lazaros:

we enjoyed him.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yes, that was great yeah.

Alan Lazaros:

One of the questions that he said he attributed to Kobe Bryant. But he said one of the questions that he asks himself often is where am I negotiating with myself? There is no negotiating with myself, and that's kind of what you're talking about, is? It doesn't really matter if you want to or not, and I just wonder if that's a common thing. Okay, so let's bring this back to the interview. So this is part two. The last episode was yesterday, and I've done back-to-backs yesterday and today, so catch me up. So the first thing you said was your relationship with failure.

Kevin Palmieri:

Minds, so growth mindset and relationship with failure.

Alan Lazaros:

I think or fixed mindset and then the third one was what being able to do what you don't want to do this is, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri:

The third one is knowing that something has to be done and you being able to show up and do it, regardless of whether or not you want to nice, which is self-discipline essentially yeah, I think that's like I was on a podcast today.

Kevin Palmieri:

It was awesome, great dude. He rescheduled like three times and it was like I'm so excited, just a cool dude. And he said why is fitness so important to you? And I said because it's proof positive that discipline works. It's like proof positive. Am dieting and there's a bunch of things that I want to eat. Like I wanted to get two burgers and two fries and a hot dog, but I I didn't. I wanted to. It's not that I didn't want to. I went and picked up the food and I literally I told matt when I got to his house I was like dude, I had a fry in my hand, I was gonna eat it in the car and I was like I can't, I gotta wait till I get there so I'm not gonna miss, but that's, that's a gentle a, that's a little example.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's not that serious, but that's like it's the principle of it. It is serious, the principle. Well, I think the principle is serious, not that actual. The principle underneath it is more serious than the practice that I, that I showed everything.

Alan Lazaros:

So bear with me, but it's it's super fixed, meaning you think nothing can change. Fixed, you think some things can change, but usually it's external to yourself. And then you've got growth, which means you can improve over time, and then super growth, which is it's all you can do. Anything. Super growth is also dangerous and it's a spectrum and they all have their own limiting beliefs associated with them. So fixed versus growth, mindset is number one. And again, this is again this is me priming myself as well.

Alan Lazaros:

I'm interviewing you about you eight years ago. What you needed to change to get here? Essentially Because, quite frankly, you are honest enough and humble enough to say, hey, I was not going to be this successful unless I changed a lot of stuff, for sure, and your changes will pay dividends forever. It will skills, monetize forever who you become. You can use forever the, the version of kevin.

Alan Lazaros:

Eight years ago, when we first started working together, the, the biggest client we have, that's working with you they wouldn't work with that guy. No, they would notice okay, he's a mess. We can't work with a mess. Oh, let's have him run our scope of work. No way, why would they do? And I wonder if people fully understand I don't mean people, but I wonder if we make it clear enough how important that is. If you can't take care of your own finances, why would someone else trust you If you can't take care of your own health?

Alan Lazaros:

I said this in book club and I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, but I remember I got I won a personal training thing free raffle and the head trainer there was very out of shape and I didn't like him. I knew him from the past and I thought he was a dingus. But I said I want Nate. Nate was the best trainer there and he was jacked out of his mind. I mean, he was just next level and I was like I want Nate. She's like, well, nate's not is the head trainer. He's the head trainer, he's a, he's higher than nate. I said don't care, I'm good, this is my time, I'm not gonna waste my time. She's like, well, it's free. I'm said no, it's not, it's my time, but anyways, uh, to bring this to you. So fix versus growth mindset, your relationship with failure. And then this last one is just self-discipline your relationship with failure.

Kevin Palmieri:

And then this last one is just self-discipline. Self-discipline in the things that you don't want to be disciplined. It's not necessarily disciplined for me to go to the gym if I want to go to the gym. It's not necessary, I mean, it's not that doesn't require discipline if I want to do it.

Kevin Palmieri:

So I don't think I should get full credit for that. Like strong work. I enjoy the gym most of the time not all the time, but most of the time I do. When I know I'm going for a workout Like today was back day I was like excited to do back. Hell, yeah, let's go do back.

Alan Lazaros:

How did you develop so much discipline, self discipline, self Cause. No one's going to discipline for you. I don't know, that's that's what's hard.

Kevin Palmieri:

I think I carried over from fitness what I had in fitness. I think doing a bodybuilding show might be it's one of the hardest things I've ever done. For sure, for sure, yeah, same. It was terrible, it's absolutely terrible, just terrible.

Alan Lazaros:

It was bad. The one I won was bad.

Kevin Palmieri:

The other ones weren't so bad. 99.9% of it is the prep. It's like the show day is awesome, but that's one day out of 90. So I guess it's not 99.9%.

Alan Lazaros:

It's not even that I mean. You were already in great shape for years.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah.

Alan Lazaros:

How long have you been lifting weights prior to deciding to do a bodybuilding show?

Kevin Palmieri:

Oh man.

Alan Lazaros:

Decade right. Yeah 10 years, yeah, 10 years, yeah. And then you decide to do one, and then it's 90 days of hell, and then it's oh, I won a trophy and I won the whole thing. That's great. I don't think you won the overall.

Kevin Palmieri:

I did not win that.

Alan Lazaros:

No, you won your class, just so it's not actually three months. It's well 10 years and three months, but that but the 10 years was great compared to the three months.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, fair, I think that's a I. I tried to carry that over and then, honestly, I wonder if I think the best answer I can give is you have to sign up for things. And again, this is a fine line. I've signed up for a lot of things that I really wanted the reward for, but I didn't really want to do that. Like I do a lot of stuff for that big client that I don't want to do. I've learned a lot of stuff, but it's always like, yeah, well, this is what you signed up for and there's a reason you signed up for it, so you got to do it. We're in a different position as a business where there's people on the team that are better at way better at things than I am. So I can have a conversation with them and say, hey, I think it's time for you to take this over. You're better at this than I am, but I mean, I think that's kind of it.

Kevin Palmieri:

You and I, in the beginning, fell into roles. I was going to do the audio editing, I was going to do the video editing. I was going to do the thumbnails. I was going to do certain things you were going to do, certain things neither of us guests really wanted to do that. Yeah, that was just the requirement. I think I last thing, and I'll kick it to you it's very easy to start dream chasing and say, oh yeah, I used to have a job. I hated listening to the boss. Your, your dreams are the boss now, not you, your dreams are the boss and you work for your dreams, and I think that's the best way to think about it.

Alan Lazaros:

Okay, hello, hello, hello, nlu listener. Thank you as always for listening to Next Level University. Real quick, I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner. This is a journal that I use every single day. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time. It breaks down your dreams into goals, milestones and daily habits. We hope you enjoy it. The link will be in the show notes.

Alan Lazaros:

The last episode we did and we still have plenty of time we got six minutes here. Plenty, plenty of time, plenty of time. Yeah, it's all relative. The last time, the last episode, part one, I asked you these questions because I didn't understand. I said we're all playing not to lose. I was playing not to lose relationships.

Alan Lazaros:

Unconsciously, I didn't want to lose any more friends, I didn't want to outgrow family, I didn't want to lose people and I felt really good at success, but not good at relationships. You felt the opposite. I was afraid of success, you were afraid of failure. Okay, for new listeners, I know I'm paraphrasing and not doing a great job explaining.

Alan Lazaros:

This is similar and I'm going to say this, even though I'm afraid to say it I have never once said I want to achieve a result without predetermining in advance that I am also signing up for everything that it takes to require it. Like to me and I said this to Kevin behind the scenes and I'm going to share it here and I will explain it after I say it it doesn't fucking matter whether or not I want to do it, it doesn't matter, it's completely irrelevant to whether, if I want to achieve X result, it doesn't fucking matter that I don't want to do Y, a, b, c, d and this is a better metaphor If I want D result, it doesn't fucking matter that I don't want to do A, b and C. It's irrelevant.

Kevin Palmieri:

But you're aware of what A, b and C are.

Alan Lazaros:

I think that's where I in the past I wasn't. I don't know if I was always aware of what it would take. So did you presuppose and this is a good question I want you to actually answer Was there a part of you that thought that you'd like it? Like when people set goals? I know I sound judgmental in this. I want to try my best to be me but also be centered. I don't understand why you would set a goal and then be upset with what it takes to achieve it, because that means you set a goal having like. Did you actually think you'd like it Like? Setting goals is terrible. I was hopeful.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's nothing good about goal achievement. I was hopeful. Yeah, Because if I'm already miserable?

Alan Lazaros:

the last thing I want to do is be miserable more. Now again, if the reason you're miserable is because you're not aiming at anything meaningful and you're not fulfilled and you're not climbing mountains I know Climbing mountains. No one goes on a hike to like. Sitting on the couch is only fun for so long. The people sitting on the couch for too long including myself in the past, the people climbing meaningful mountains were always the envy, and so I always say climbing mountains sucks. When you're on the mountain and you're sweating and you're struggling and it's raining and it's pouring and you feel like crap, but you're always glad you climbed. It's better than sitting on the couch.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, but you got to do it for long enough. It's not if you just if you make it to the first base camp and turn around and say I can't do this, it's not, no way, cause then you feel like a failure. So many of the goals I started. I always again I use this example. There was a time where I was like I'm going to order phone cases from china and I'm going to have my own little ebay business and then when I started it, I was like I don't want to learn how to do all this fuck, that I thought it was going to be easier, and then I just stopped doing it, that I think that's the norm, that's how it works, that's how it worked, that's how it worked for me.

Alan Lazaros:

That was it. What would you do now? Because you're not like that anymore.

Kevin Palmieri:

I wouldn't, I wouldn't start in the first place because it's like I don't really want to do this. I think what happens so often is we look for the way out. I was on a show the other day and I was like one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on social media is if you hate your job, you should start a business. No, you should look for a new job.

Alan Lazaros:

First is what you should do you shouldn't.

Kevin Palmieri:

Just I don't like my job, I should go work for myself. Fuck no, that person's obviously a business coach?

Alan Lazaros:

I think they were or if you're struggling.

Kevin Palmieri:

If you, if right now you're struggling for money and you want to be able to control your income, be your own boss. No, you will be broker for a long time.

Alan Lazaros:

Can you explain control your income Like?

Kevin Palmieri:

I don't even know. It's a dumb thing. You are in way more. You are in way more influence slash control of how much money you can make, because when you're a dream chaser and an entrepreneur and a business owner, there is no ceiling but there also ain't no floor. Unfortunately, there ain't no floor and there are no safety nets. There are no safety nets that I think that's one of the reasons it's so hard to be a business owner, because if you are not disciplined, it's it is nearly impossible to win. It is nearly impossible because you're competing against people that are super disciplined.

Kevin Palmieri:

Nice, if I say this in group coaching we have, we have a call tonight. You're competing against alan and I now I'm it's. I'm not saying it has to be a competition there's plenty of listeners like I'm not saying it from from the ego place but like you're competing against people like us who have traded a lot for this and I know you've traded a lot too but you can't be skipping episodes and you can't say I don't really feel like no, no, no, this is serious business okay, did you understand?

Alan Lazaros:

okay? So real quick, let's say there's a tv show on netflix. How many shows are there on netflix? There's what? Five thousand at000 at least, if not more. Everyone who produces a show is competing with every other show. Is that a normal, obvious thought?

Kevin Palmieri:

No, because I think even even me giving that, giving that statement, is dumb, because most people are competing against themselves first. That's what discipline does you win the battle against yourself. If you want to win the battle against anybody else, you have to win the battle against yourself first. Nice.

Alan Lazaros:

That's where we have to start. Last question how do you win the battle against yourself? How did you? How did you? Because I think it's different for everybody.

Kevin Palmieri:

but how did you Make it small to begin with?

Alan Lazaros:

I'm way more disciplined today than I've ever been because I've done so many things that require discipline. But if you handed me my schedule today and said, all right, cool, go do that Eight years ago, I would have said, dude, no way, how long do I have Like at this week? No, don't want that life, Because the truth is you wouldn't go back Because this is better. I'm telling you my schedule's full, but this is better than the alternative.

Kevin Palmieri:

But I think the opportunity that comes from it, the growth that comes from it, as long as it's something you, as long as the belief in self-esteem and self-worth too, though you feel good about Kevin now every day.

Kevin Palmieri:

Yeah, no, yes. And I still have. It still sucks to look at my calendar and say, like how the hell am I going to do that today? Like that sucks. That part, I don't know. You get better at it. It gets a little bit easier. It's easier anyway because it's aligned. So even the hard days are still more aligned than an easy day doing what I used to. Because I love this, I love the grind, I love being in business, I love podcasting, I love speaking, I love coaching, I love helping people. So even on the hard days, it's a little bit easier.

Kevin Palmieri:

Discipline starts very small, just like everything else does that you you start by setting and keeping the small promises to yourself. That's probably the simplest answer, especially when you don't want to. We are really good at finding excuses really good. I mean, humans are really good at solving problems. One problem is I don't want to do this. How do I make myself not feel guilty about it? That's raining, it is raining, yes, it is. So I won't do that. You're gonna feel like shit about that. You can only do that so many times before you start to understand you're making excuses. So I think you have to start from a very, a very, very small place of discipline is what I would say I know you gotta go I do you?

Alan Lazaros:

know we gotta go wrap this whole thing. Did you get across what you had hoped? Because you ended the last episode with we got to do a part two?

Kevin Palmieri:

did do this part.

Alan Lazaros:

Yeah, that last part, this what we talked about today, yeah, like when you said I want to do a part two, I think we should do a part two, and I said it's our show, we should let's do it. Give just that, like what you wanted to make sure got got across.

Kevin Palmieri:

There's a lot of people that say discipline doesn't work and discipline go with the flow and life of ease and all that stuff, and maybe you can have seasons of that, I don't know. Is that going to get you where you want to go? No, no, no, no, no, no. Sundays are ease. I have a lot of ease on Sundays, I do, but Monday is terrible. I still love Mondays, one of my favorite days of the week, but I, it's fucking hard.

Kevin Palmieri:

And there's very people say like well, you got to let go. I've tried it, it didn't work. No, I got to hang on, because if I let go, who's controlling it? It's just, it's just going to happen. I don't, I can't believe that. I've tried it, I. It didn't work for me.

Kevin Palmieri:

So I think discipline is one of those things that is a necessary suck, just like a lot of things are. Tracking habits is kind of a necessary suck for me at least. Right, I'm you, do you, you can do whatever you want out there. This is what has suck for me, at least. Right, I'm you, do you, you can do whatever you want out there. This is what has worked for me. That's a necessary suck.

Kevin Palmieri:

Getting up at six is a necessary suck, it's just, that's the way I have to do it. It is what it is, and all of those things require discipline because, very honestly, none of you would know whether or not I did it. You would have no idea whether or not I did the thing I said I was going to do. You would would have no idea if I didn't. I could be lying this whole time. Oh yeah, I sleep, I get up at nine. I'm just going to go on the podcast and say I sleep, I get up at six. I can do that and nobody would know. I would notice. Oh, I know, I know I study you, I know it sucks and oftentimes it sucks, but I'm telling you I think that's the thing, that is the equalizer. The people that are more consistent are more disciplined and they design their, their environments better. Right, that's a piece of it too Discipline and design that.

Alan Lazaros:

That yeah, fired up today. Fired up Nice. When you order something on Amazon, you are paying for it to be delivered. Remember, someone else has to deliver it. There's a reason you're paying. Yeah, you pay money for that. No one can just ship things for free. I hope that lands. I don't think it does. You're paying for someone else's discipline. Yeah, yes, every dollar you spend is paying for someone else to do something for you. So if you want to make money, you have to do something for someone else and get paid for it. That's what discipline is, and it has to be something the other person doesn't want to do that they'd rather pay money for. I wonder if that's. I wanted to take that opportunity to bring that in, just because I obviously have a sneaky goal to teach economics.

Kevin Palmieri:

I was going to say that sounds like a business growth university episode good sir, which is where we're headed. Keep that shit off of here, all right. Next, elvin Nation. If you're looking for a group of like-minded individuals who are working on their discipline, they're working on their consistency, all of that stuff. They're hyper-focused on personal development. We'll have the link in the show notes for our private.

Alan Lazaros:

Facebook group. That's what I'm getting out of book club. I hope that you come. It might as well. I've had someone else tell me Brandon shout out to you. Brandon said I don't know why more people don't come to book club. It's basically free coaching. Okay, come, it's an awesome group of people. You do not have to participate. You can keep your mic and camera off if you want.

Kevin Palmieri:

It's totally free the for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow.

Alan Lazaros:

Keep it Next Level Next.

Kevin Palmieri:

Level Nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next.

Alan Lazaros:

Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri:

Thank, you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.

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Alan Lazaros

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Kevin Palmieri

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