
Next Level University
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Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers, entrepreneurs, and self-improvement addicts who are ready to get real about what it takes to grow.
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Next Level University
When Is It Safe To Lead With Ego? (2110)
In this honest and entertaining episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros unpack when ego is necessary. Through real stories from the gym and life, they explore how to protect your peace, set clear boundaries, and respond with strength, not aggression. It’s a raw, relatable look at masculinity, conflict, and why self-respect sometimes requires a little edge. If you’ve ever felt walked over, disrespected, or unsure when to push back, this conversation will give you the clarity and confidence to stand tall without swinging too hard.
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Show notes:
(3:15) Standing up against disrespect
(6:57) The power of the shield bump
(13:03) Masculinity, boundaries, and balance
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🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros
Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.
I am 100% a different person in the gym than I am on this podcast. I am 100% a different person in the gym than I am when I'm hanging out with Taryn. When I'm at the gym, I have way more ego than I do maybe right here or in my day-to-day life, and I think that's actually not only good but probably necessary.
Alan Lazaros:There's something called prey drive that animals have, and if an animal is triggered and there's a fight or flight response, particularly a dog in this case they turn into a whole nother animal, Even if it's a sweet little dog. I actually watched Tucker get very triggered and he actually couldn't even unclench his jaw with one of my cats one time. And human beings have that same psychological fight, flight, freeze, fawn response and sometimes you need to use that to your advantage.
Kevin Palmieri:Welcome to Next Level University. I'm your host, kevin Palmieri, and.
Alan Lazaros:I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.
Kevin Palmieri:At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.
Alan Lazaros:Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love health and wealth.
Kevin Palmieri:We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits and defining your own unique version of success.
Alan Lazaros:Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.
Kevin Palmieri:Welcome to Next Level University anywhere, completely free. Welcome to next level university, next level nation today for episode number 2110. When is it safe to lead with ego? I was at the gym today and I was thinking about this because again, you've heard the, the trials and the tribulations of the dingo at the gym who I don't like. Oh yeah, I was talking with bruce about him today. So bruce is a 79 year old bodybuilder, just the nicest dude in the world. For the new listeners.
Alan Lazaros:Yes, can you talk to them about dingo jones?
Kevin Palmieri:yes, dingo jones is just. He just goes to the gym and just walks around and talks to people and just says dumb shit. He's like, yeah, man, I, you know, I sell viagra at a hundred dollars per pill. It's like why are you telling me this man we're in the gym locker room like what are we doing? I'm trying to get a workout in, what are we doing here? Tells me about his, his previous jail time and how he's on all sorts of drugs, and I think he's in, he's in like sixties. Like what are we doing, man? You know, this is high school shit. What are we doing here? This is high school shit, sir. So I've, and he said some very he's just said some ignorant stuff where it's like I can't, I'm not going to even listen to that or connect myself to that in any way.
Alan Lazaros:I'm not interested in having any level of relationship. Slash connection I don't want to talk to him making fun of someone who was trying to.
Kevin Palmieri:Yeah, he was like there's a somebody who is working with one of the personal trainers who is overweight and one of the exercises that you can do when you're working on losing body fat and you're. And one of the exercises that you can do when you're working on losing body fat and you can't handle squats yet or whatever, is you sit down and stand back up. Have you ever done that for an exercise before? And I was like dude, come on, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? A person's putting in more work than you are Bully.
Alan Lazaros:Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Palmieri:FYI squad listeners next levelers Dingoones is a name we made up. Yes, yeah, it's not this person's real name. Could be, could be. I don't think it is.
Kevin Palmieri:But I realize that it feels like I'm so number one when I go to the gym and I'm doing like heavy legs. I'm. It's not that I'm not in a good mood, I'm in a great mood, but I'm I'm feeling myself a little bit more. I'm listening to music, I roll my pants up, I'm showing my legs off to myself it's not for anybody else, cause there's usually nobody there at six o'clock on a Sunday but I'm feeling myself. I want to get into a higher energy. I don't want to be mousy and like am I going to be able to do this? You need to fucking come with it. Nice, oh yeah, hell, yeah, hell, yes, hell, yes, the.
Kevin Palmieri:Today I had a moment where it was like I kind of have to have an ego, so this person doesn't come up to me and try to talk to me. I can't, I do not want to send him a welcoming energy. I don't want that. I don't. You're not welcome. I don't want you to talk to me. I don't like you. You're, you're a dick. I don't like you. So I just like stare like not at him, but like near him, and just look angry, like do not approach me.
Kevin Palmieri:Here's my thesis and this that's not the story I was going to even tell, but that's what I got for you, it's what we have today. My thesis is when it's safe to use ego, when you're playing by yourself or when you're playing against yourself, I think it's dangerous to use ego when you're playing against other people or you're playing together with people, because that's when people, that's when people kind of get hurt. Like ego can hurt other people, it can hurt you too. But I think there are some scenarios where you kind of have to lean into it a little bit.
Alan Lazaros:I have a story where I ego bonked for lack of better phrasing with a guy at the gym, and so I was in front of one of the setup machines and I was right up next to it, but no one was over there. No one was over there, so I was probably two or three feet from it and I was in the middle of a set doing unilateral standing overhead press with dumbbells and I was getting after it. I was in it and emilia and I were over there and no one was over there, and and this dude came right over and I'm talking almost touched me in the middle of my set and then sat on the thing behind me and I put down the dumbbell and I turned to him. I said, really, and he goes yeah, really, are you using this?
Alan Lazaros:And I said, no, but you could have asked me to move or at least waited till I was done with my set. And he came at me with something I don't know what, and I said wow, you would think someone of your age would be more respectful. Was it older gentleman? Yeah, much older, much older. And he was really triggered. He said, well, you think someone your age would be more respectful? It was, yeah, and I said whatever man, I moved forward, moved on.
Alan Lazaros:He storms out of the gym and this was one of those moments, too, where, trust me, I don't want to be confrontational, but I also would have lost self-respect if I didn't say something out of cowardice, because it was blatant. It was really, really blatant. And he came back afterwards. Emily and I, at that point, we're on the treadmill. This is like the tail end of our workout. I think we were like let's just go. That's the symbol. If you're on YouTube, I'm just using my fingers to symbolize running. It's like let's just go run, let's get the fuck out of here. And so I was about to get on the treadmill. She was already on the treadmill and he came back in and he shook my hand and he said listen, I'm sorry, and all this stuff. And I said I really appreciate that, thank you. And the next time I saw him he was coming out of the gym while we were coming in and he dabs me, your buddy's down and it's, it's, there's, what'd you say.
Kevin Palmieri:Buddy's down.
Alan Lazaros:I think there's this weird thing with dudes in particular I see this more with men than with women where they need to test you to see if you're. It's an unconscious challenge, it's it's. And again, I'm not a ape expert on primates, but I do know that there is something primitive about men. Where it's they have to test to see who the alpha male is or whatever, and especially when and I've noticed this too when there there's a really, really really attractive girl around, men will act really weird, and this dude was annoying Emilia for sure as well, in terms of always going right behind her when she was lifting, and so I had to say something. She thanked me after. She said thank you so much. That was. That was so unreasonable. Like that dude is so unreasonable, he's so disrespectful and he's not anymore. But I also know that if I hadn't checked him and at least said something, I would have lost self-respect because the old me would have said, oh, it's not's not worth it, I'll just move. But the truth is, deep down, there's a small part of me that is scared of confrontation, and I don't want to be an asshole. I don't want to, and I don't have the fucking time nor inclination to get in some argument in the middle of my workout with some older guy, but I realized that I had to say something. I'm not going to fight the guy, it's nothing like that but I need to come with a little something. I got to give it a little shield bump, and so this is the metaphor I always use you can smash their shield and make yourself wrong, or you can pull back, pull back, pull back, pull back, but eventually you're going to find yourself up against a wall and then you're going to have to smash their shield. So I just gave a little shield bump and he came back and said he was really sorry and he's like yeah, you're right, because he knew he reflected on it and I said I really, really appreciate that, thank you. He said listen, I don't want to ruin your day or mine, I'm really sorry. And I was like I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Alan Lazaros:The old me probably would have said I'm sorry too. The truth is, I know I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Quote, unquote, wrong and wrongs a perspective. I get it Right. I was a little close to the sit up machine, but at the end of the day he easily could have waited and or asked because it was blatant.
Alan Lazaros:So what's my point of all? That Sometimes there needs to be a little bit of ego in order to do a shield bump, because when you are scared there tends to be a little bit of an overswing. So, excuse me my throat, I'm not saying to go from zero to 10. In this metaphor, drive to five, five is centered, but every now and then if someone throws you a fucking eight, you might have to throw a six. And he threw me an eight in his behavior and I had to throw him a six and I had to see if he was going to keep escalating. I'm not going to fight some guy in the gym, but I will stand up for myself and I think that that's a. That's one of the reasons.
Alan Lazaros:I've noticed this with some of my clients too. I have one client in particular I know you're listening where he gets mistreated. Sometimes he had a friend and we both knew this friend and he was kind of digging him, chopping him down a little bit. I said, dude, you know what he's doing there. He's like, yeah, but it's not worth it. It's not worth it. I said, brother, you gotta stand up for yourself, you gotta say something, and when he did, he got more respect back, and so I don't know why the male ego needs to test everybody all the time. It's so fucking annoying, quite frankly, but it is a thing. It is a thing and that's what that dude's doing, and when he comes to you talking about viagra in the fucking locker room, what you probably should do.
Kevin Palmieri:I'm not saying to fight the kid, what I am saying he's not a kid, he's 60s, he's in his 60s, he's a man. I'm not saying to fight the grown-ass man.
Alan Lazaros:Well, he obviously isn't acting like it but, I'm not saying to fight him.
Kevin Palmieri:What I am saying is you got to say something, and I'm sure you have right he he, him and his buddy, came up to me one day and he said something I don't remember what it was, but he was like he's, like I'm pretty annoying, huh, and I was like on the highest end, yes, nice, on the highest end, and I just put my headphones in and walked away. I don't, I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm not going out of my way to be a dick, but if you approach me and say something stupid to your point, it's not even about him, it's about me. I need to maintain self-respect with myself. I'll regret it if I, if I, just go along with it. That's how bullying happens, that's exactly how bullying happens, there's five people.
Kevin Palmieri:One person has a massive ego and the other four people don't have enough courage to stand. And I've been there. I'm, I'm not. I'm no, not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I think sometimes ego feels like ego. It feels like ego even though it's not, because when you're under you have to, like, rile yourself up to do something, and it's not actually ego, it's centeredness that feels like ego, because you're not used to the collective you, not you you're not used to doing it.
Alan Lazaros:I think that's a really big piece of it well when you're used to being we call it the drive to five over five means that you're kind of arrogant. You've got a lot of ego under five is you are a turtle shell, so it's puffer fish and turtle shell it's the best metaphor ever. A puffer fish isn't actually strong. They're actually deeply insecure, so they have to puff up to try to pretend they're stronger than they are. And a turtle is so scared that they hide. And if you're so used to turtling, you might have to take a swing.
Alan Lazaros:I told Kevin this behind the scenes a while back. I said you and I are so afraid to be toxic masculine that we've ended up feminine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being feminine, but it's not who we are. It's not who we are. We have masculine energy and I know that I'm a masculine man. But I'm so afraid to be toxic masculine that sometimes I let my masculine go completely. And I didn't want to offend this man. I didn't want to fight this man. I didn't want to offend this man. I didn't want to fight this man. I didn't want to start a confrontation, I just want to get a fucking workout in. But I also know that I have to and I think the reason why he came back and apologized is because I think on some level he was testing me, and I think he was pleasantly surprised with how I could escalate without over escalating. I could confront it and handle the conflict and then move on in a respectful way and I could call it out without overdoing it.
Alan Lazaros:Because when you over swing, you make yourself wrong and I think that's a thing. Yeah, maybe you're mistreated, maybe you're being treated unjustly, maybe you're being chopped down, but when you over swing, you actually do make yourself wrong, because two bullies doesn't make it right. And but in the past I would have just this is what I would have done Genuinely. I would have said okay, I'll play the long game. Okay, I'll play the long game. Oh, okay, I'll just go get better. I'll aim higher, work harder, get smarter.
Alan Lazaros:That was my trauma response in the past when I was bullied. I would just okay, I'll show you one day, I'll show you one day, I'll show you one day. Well, it turns out as a 36 year old man who has achieved many of his dreams, thinking that this would change something. It's actually gotten worse, not better, and it's being tested more, not less. And so it turns out that when it comes to these kinds of interactions, you can't just play the long-term strategic chess game to show them one day that you're courageous. You have to show some courage in the moment and not overswing and then make yourself wrong. Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri:Well, and courage feels dirty if you haven't done it often.
Alan Lazaros:NLU listener what is happening? I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if you want to get to the next level faster. We have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community. The link to register will be in the show notes.
Kevin Palmieri:I think that's the hard thing is when you're so used to not saying something. It feels like ego to say something when in reality it's probably not. You're probably just trying to get back to five, you're probably. I find that I go the opposite direction and I try to befriend people in the gym that I have respect for, because I know on some level there is this guy, because I know on some level there is this guy. He's just a specimen, just a strong, just tall, good looking dude, jacked, strong as hell.
Kevin Palmieri:And he was doing lap pull downs next to me and I tapped on my headphone and pulled it out and I could tell, by the way he said what, that he thought I was going to say something. I was like dude, you are unbelievable in the best ways. And he's like dude, come on, man, he's like I'm trying to get like you, you're here every day. I was like brother, don't even, don't even. Like we're not even the same, you're not even the same league, like you're crushing it, man, you're crushing it that I don't, that now we're buddies, now we can be buddies.
Kevin Palmieri:We can, we can do dabs. There's something about like somebody's got to go first when it comes to stuff like that. I think, and even in the, even in the negative, potentially negative thing, the dingo jones in my gym is testing the waters always. He's always testing the waters. Hey man, how you doing or you have a good week. He's all he's trying. Trying to get me back in. I'm not taking my headphones out and I'm not going to respond. I don't want to respond. I can't let you get back in. You can't get more ground. I don't want that.
Alan Lazaros:This is psychological warfare, it's annoying.
Kevin Palmieri:It is unfortunately that's what. That's what human beings do, especially immature human beings and, on top of all that beings, do this a lot. If my wife comes to the gym with me and you say anything to my wife, you're gonna, I'm, I'm not, not gonna be as nice we had to do, I'm not, I'm not gonna do anything. Honestly, I'll probably say something I was like come on man, come on man what are we doing?
Alan Lazaros:when we got home, she said thank you so much I'm sure she very much appreciated.
Kevin Palmieri:So she was so grateful. Yeah, she was so grateful. We had a mentor one time who pulled me aside. He was a dickhead. Honestly, he was In retrospect, he was an asshole and he was like you know, I could take your wife if I wanted to, brother. Brother, I could kick the shit out of you with both of my hands. Like what are we doing? What are we doing here? You really, are you really just trying to rile me up? Like what are we doing?
Alan Lazaros:here.
Kevin Palmieri:That's not something you ridiculous with that that's not something you say to someone that you care about, like what do we, what are we doing here? Man, I would never say that to to this person about somebody that they cared about, that. So I said something. I I definitely, because that's the thing is. If to alan's point, if you're, if somebody's gonna throw you an eight, you can't give them a two back. You can't, you gotta match. I'm not saying that, like, imagine, if it's two streams of water, right, you both have very powerful hoses. I'm not saying that you have to spray it so so hard that it it deflects their stream and then knocks them into the wall. I'm not saying that. But have to spray it so so hard that it it deflects their stream and then knocks them into the wall. I'm not saying that, but it at least has to stop theirs, that's the goal, one of the things that I've found really challenging.
Alan Lazaros:Okay, there's someone who nlu blacklisted. Recently, you and I had a conversation. We decided this is not the play. We got to do this, it is what it is.
Alan Lazaros:Okay, this person came at me and there was some character assassination and this is the problem. This person is very unhappy. They're obviously very what's the proper word? Unfulfilled, displeased.
Alan Lazaros:I coached this person for a time and it's so hard because if I really were to attack back and it's so hard because if I really were to attack back, you ever hear someone like oh, you couldn't offend me if you tried. Oh, really, the truth of the matter is, if I said all of the truth, this person would and, by the way, he's attacking me If I attack back at the same level he, that would be terrible for him, because I'm actually fulfilled, I actually do have self respect and self love and I'm actually, all things considered, very successful in health, wealth and love and I'm winning at life for the most part. This person is very much not, and I was supposed to. I was helping them with that, actually, and they were entitled and they attacked my character and so we blacklisted them. I've seen this happen before and that's good, move on. But if I had attacked at the same level he did, that would be really really, really bad for his mental health.
Alan Lazaros:And so sometimes the high road, the high road is to stand up for yourself. Yes, yes, but do not overdo it, because unfortunately, some of these people that are dishing out eights and nines and tens, they can't handle above a six, and that's the unfortunate part too. And if you're, if you're out there and and you want to take a swing and bully somebody or whatever, you better be ready to take it back, because I've had to bite my tongue, because I know that it's not what's best for this person like this old guy. Dude, real talk, let's have an actual conversation. I could easily, in any regard, if we actually got in a fight and he wanted to fight me, it wouldn't even be close it wouldn't be close but I'm not about that, so I'm not gonna fight you.
Alan Lazaros:If you take a swing at me, I'm gonna have to do something, but like I'm not here for that, I but I'm not trying to. What you're saying is match it, don't exceed it, don't escalate it, don't. That job was not to escalate it. My job was to match and say are we really doing this energetically? And then deescalate. And then respect comes as a byproduct and if that doesn't work, then you do have to black infringed upon, all value in this world will be attacked. That is a fact.
Alan Lazaros:I use the metaphor of the garden. If we have a lush garden of health, wealth and love, an amazing community, we are going to gardens. Get pillaged Gardens, get the bugs come, the weeds come. You have to protect all things of value. That's why, unfortunately, there's this beautiful, beautiful quarry near where I live. It is stunning and it's graffitied and people litter and it pisses me off. It sucks. You're ruining it, but that's what people do, people that have egos. They do that. These are high school kids. They draw on dicks and all kinds of stupid shit, and I've done stupid shit like that when I was a kid too.
Alan Lazaros:The point is, all value will be attacked and you better be ready to at least defend yourself. I'm not saying to attack, and that's one of the things that I can be really grateful for. I was a bully in third grade to a man named Josh and I was a bully and I was attacking, but after that I decided to never bully again and I was being bullied at home and I've never attacked. I've never been the one to to to do the frontal attack, but I've always been attacked and I've been chopped down a lot and I've definitely over swung when being attacked, that's for sure. And then sometimes you get stuck in shame. It's like, well, I didn't have to say all that, you know. So at the end of the day you got to try to take the high road, and that's not easy. The high road is not to fully shell up, but it's not to overly puffer fish either. It is a yeah, it's a whole thing.
Kevin Palmieri:It's a whole thing.
Alan Lazaros:It sucks man, my least favorite part of this life is that right there. Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Palmieri:Yeah, I think, at the end of the day, it's about self-respect. You got to you, that's the thing You've got to do, the thing that you'll respect. And over-swinging is not it either? That's, that's the point, right? Over-swinging, is not it either?
Alan Lazaros:Question for you. I today yeah, look at kev's face today. But when I say come at each other, I'm playful with that. But at the end of the day there has been conflict, not. Why do you think you and I handle that so well? One our futures are attached.
Kevin Palmieri:I think we both know that we're very me, me with you more than you with me. You'd be all right without me, I'd be okay, but not as good, for sure. Be in a little bit of trouble, okay.
Alan Lazaros:So far that's fair. I I don't necessarily think that that's a that's not in my decision-making paradigm that's maybe in mine for definitely, maybe definitely in mine for sure, for sure for sure, definitely, and I don't mean that negatively, I just for me's.
Kevin Palmieri:It's more about who I am and how I well, I think we aspire to be, we aspire to be good men, and I think I don't know. I think I I realize how, how much easier it is to have challenging conversations with you than it would be potentially with someone else, like under the same level of pressure that it feels like training wheels Cause we've been doing it for eight years with you, than it would be potentially with someone else, like under the same level of pressure that it feels like training wheels because we've been doing it for eight years. And it's not about I'm. I don't care if I'm right, you don't care if you're right, we want to. What's the best answer?
Alan Lazaros:that's, it doesn't matter I yeah, I'm wrong all the time.
Kevin Palmieri:Truthful yeah and I'm right all the time and alan's wrong all the time and alan's right on it the time. It doesn't matter. If there's any desire to keep score, it's not so it can go to somebody's ego, it's so it can go to next time. We know, like Kev's usually right on this, let's go with that. Alan's usually right on this, let's go with that. That, and because I think we both understand that seconds and moments are not worth affecting hours, days, years months and lives.
Alan Lazaros:It's just not worth it. It's just not. It's not, it's not. There's too much value and I there's too much to lose from and there's a mutual respect.
Kevin Palmieri:I think that's a thing too. Like you don't, if you respect somebody, you don't. You want to make sure it gets solved respectfully, of course. Right, and that's that's a big piece of it too yeah, respect is a big core value.
Alan Lazaros:There was a year when I had that printed out and it was right over here all year, because I felt so disrespected back then, not by you, but in general, and I never understood how much respect was a honor. Respect. Respect is a great word and and, at the end of the day, I don't want to be disrespectful, right, I don't want to be entitled or disrespectful or arrogant, and I think that most people and I do this in Conscious Couples podcast. If there isn't respect and you're not being respectful of one another and what you do, there's almost no way that can last. Like, if, if you see a partner disrespect their partner, blatant disrespect, that is like the biggest red flag of all time and, dude, I never knew how much that was happening to me in the past, like friends and shit, friends would make fun of me all the fucking time, dude, all the time. And I never really.
Kevin Palmieri:And in hindsight it's like, oh, that's what perpetuates, it perpetuates is you don't get, which I think tony robbins said this isn't my quote but you don't get what you want, you get. You get you what you tolerate, yeah that's that is unfortunately true for most of you.
Kevin Palmieri:Get what you tolerate if you're getting. My mom said this when I was young. She said if somebody punches you in the face, you punch them back harder and they'll never do it again. It was like, okay, fuck yeah, that's great advice. I don't know if she knew how much wisdom there actually was in that of like, bullies don't like to get hit. That's why they pick on people who don't hit back. I'm not to hit back, but you gotta get ground. You can't lose ground all the time yeah, because then it gets worse.
Alan Lazaros:You can't. It gets worse it gets worse it gets so much worse, yeah 100.
Kevin Palmieri:All right. Here's my takeaway if you're out there graffiting a penis onto a rock wall, stop it and get your life together. Seriously, though, nobody needs to. Nobody needs to see that that's what I'm saying.
Alan Lazaros:Nobody needs to see a penis on a rock. Next level dreamliner. Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time, right there. And if you want to learn how to reverse engineer your goals and dreams, dreams, priorities no dreams. Goals, priorities, metrics, habits, skills and identity All in alignment. The science of achievement Reach out. I will help you. Dreams, goals, priorities, metrics, habits, skills and identity all in alignment. The science of achievement Reach out. I will help you. Dm me on Instagram, email me. I'm a coach who's going to help you reverse engineer your goals and dreams.
Kevin Palmieri:And if you're looking for a group that has no ego in it and there's by design, we don't want any ego, we want self-improvement, personal development, character. First, we'll have the link below for Next Level Nation, our private Facebook group. We would love to have you. If you're looking for a group of growth, that is really what it is designed for, all right, cool, as always. We love you, we appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you, and at NLU we don't have fans, we have family. We will talk to you all tomorrow Next Level.
Kevin Palmieri:Nation. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. We love connecting with the Next.
Alan Lazaros:Level family. We mean it when we say family. If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.
Kevin Palmieri:Thank, you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.