This Is Keeping You Broke Forever (2138)

Where interest grows, your freedom goes. In today’s honest and eye-opening episode, Kevin and Alan reveal how minimum payments, high interest, and false financial “safety” keep you stuck. Real stories, smart tips, money mindset, upgraded. Tune in and take control.

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Show notes:
(3:21) The false safety of savings
(7:02) How rapid growth led to debt
(8:49) Climbing out with discipline
(11:03) At NLU, your success is our purpose. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month for tools, insight, and the spark to move forward. https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/NzwOxCMxTDyRJg4CLJS1qg#/registration
(13:29) Burning money without knowing it
(15:14) Why the credit card still feels safe
(18:46) Credit card companies profit on ignorance
(20:54) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 3:21 The false safety of savings
• 7:02 How rapid growth led to debt
• 8:49 Climbing out with discipline
• 11:03 At NLU, your success is our purpose. Join our Monthly Meet-up every first Thursday of the month for tools, insight, and the spark to move forward.
• 13:29 Burning money without knowing it
• 15:14 Why the credit card still feels safe
• 18:46 Credit card companies profit on ignorance
• 20:54 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I was looking at a credit card statement the other day, and one of our business cards has a $20,000 balance on it right now, and I was like, just for shits and giggles, I'm gonna go take a look at the fine print here, and it would take 84 years if you just pay the minimum to pay that card off, and that is jeffing so many people.

Alan Lazaros

(0:26) I'm going to talk on this episode about a concept I call maximizing points. (0:31) In 2021 and 2022, we were growing an average of 119% year over year. (0:39) It's actually more than that, and so we took out a card for, say, 20%, so we were still way in the green.(0:46) I'll explain. (0:47) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:50) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri, and I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:55) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(1:01) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:08) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:23) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:30) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:36) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,138. (1:40) This is keeping you broke forever. (1:43) We're going to talk about money, and we're going to talk about a lot of numbers in this episode, so hang on.(1:47) If you hate numbers, please sit through it. (1:49) I guarantee this episode might be the most valuable one you ever hear from us. (1:52) Okay, so as I mentioned in the preamble, I was looking at one of our credit card statements the other day, and they hide all of this information, so you have to search on the statement.(2:05) Most of them don't show you on your main hub or your profile, and the outstanding balance on this card was like $19,000, and I went down and I was like, let me just get some data here, and at the minimum payment, if you just paid the minimum payment, it would take you 84 years to pay off that credit card. (2:24) AKA, don't do that. (2:26) Don't do that.(2:27) But I know so many people, myself in the past for most of my life, said auto pay, minimum payment, I'll worry about that later, and later never comes. (2:39) I've told this story on the podcast before. (2:41) Before Alan and I were working together, I think this was probably 2017, I had a card that had a balance of $7,000.(2:52) And I was talking to Alan, and I said, hey man, should I pay this card off? (2:57) And he's like, two things. (2:58) One, how much money do you have in the bank?(3:00) Two, what's the interest rate? (3:01) I said, it's like 20% interest rate for my credit card, and I have like $15,000 in the bank. (3:07) And he's like, yeah, of course you should pay off the card.(3:09) Why haven't you paid off the card yet? (3:11) And I was like, I don't know man, I want money in my savings because it makes me feel safe. (3:15) And he said, I don't remember exactly what you said, but I'm sure you were like, dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.(3:21) But he said, dude, you can pay off the card, it will save you a minimum payment of $250 a month, and you'll have $7,000 left in your bank. (3:32) Yes, that is the play. (3:33) It might feel weird in the moment because you're cutting your savings in half, but your savings isn't as much as you think it is anyway because you have the debt.(3:40) And that was a very important lesson for me. (3:42) And I think this is one of those episodes that it's not sexy, and maybe you don't want to hear it, but I'm telling you this, what the credit card companies do is fucking criminal. (3:51) And if you don't understand how they do it, you're going to end up a victim, unfortunately.(3:55) And we do not want that, as somebody who has been a victim in the past. (3:58) And they entice you with cashback. (4:01) 0%.

Alan Lazaros

(4:02) 0% to start. (4:04) Because they know that things will catch up, and then eventually it kicks in at 27% or whatever it is. (4:11) Does this land?(4:13) Back in 2020, 2021, 2022, COVID happened, and everyone and their mother started a podcast. (4:23) Evolve Ventures podcast is one of our clients, Emilia and Bianca. (4:28) So Emilia is a client at my company, our company, but you know what I'm saying.(4:33) And Next Level Podcast Solutions produces this podcast, Podcast Growth University, Business Growth University, Conscious Couples podcast, and Evolve Ventures podcast. (4:44) So shout out to Next Level Podcast Solutions. (4:46) Thank you for, and what, 50 others, 50 plus others.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:49) I'd have to look at the number.

Alan Lazaros

(4:50) I think we're over 60 at this point, I think. (4:52) That's what's up. (4:52) So this is what I was saying to Emilia on a walk recently.(4:56) I said, sweetheart, the only reason why I took out any money on a credit card ever, prior to Kevin and I being in business together, I have never had any credit card balance ever since I was a little kid. (5:06) I'm a bad influence. (5:08) Well, no, it made sense at the time, but here was my ignorance.(5:13) I was ignorant to the fact that, okay, so I said this to Emilia on the walk. (5:17) I said, if everyone was like you and Bianca and never missed, we would be, we'd have 300 clients because you know the stats better than I do. (5:27) There's been 5 million podcasts, plus or minus a certain percent error.(5:31) Don't quote me on this. (5:32) 5 million podcasts ever created. (5:35) Podcasts were invented.(5:38) I saw a speech by Steve Jobs 21 years ago, 22 years ago. (5:44) I have it on my Instagram. (5:45) I don't know.(5:46) It's 20 plus years ago. (5:47) And he was talking about podcasts. (5:49) It's a broadcast.(5:50) And for your iPod and it's a podcast, it's a, you know, the whole thing. (5:53) Anyways, I put it on my Instagram. (5:54) It's on my main one.(5:55) It's pinned. (5:59) 5 million podcasts have been created. (6:02) A very, very, very small percentage of them are still in production.(6:05) I think you said 480,000. (6:07) I think it's like 440,000. (6:08) 440,000.(6:09) And of those, there's an even smaller percentage that make money. (6:14) Significantly smaller. (6:15) Now, we are very fortunate to be in that percentage now.(6:21) And actually really high up in that percentage. (6:24) Okay. (6:24) What's my point of this?(6:26) When COVID happened and suddenly everyone and their mother playfully started a podcast, we crushed it because we're a podcast production company. (6:35) Of course we're going to crush it. (6:37) When everyone all of a sudden starts a podcast, you do very well.(6:41) So we were growing like crazy. (6:43) There's two ways a business fails. (6:45) One, they grow too slow.(6:46) That's the normal one. (6:47) That's usually the case. (6:48) They just don't grow enough.(6:49) So they die. (6:50) They go bankrupt. (6:51) The other one is they grow too fast and they overextend.(6:55) That's what I did. (6:56) That's what we did, but I blame me more than you because I was more ignorant in this. (7:02) I thought podcasters were going to stick around.(7:07) If everyone was like Evolve Ventures, 450 fucking episodes in and still rolling, we would have 300 goddamn clients. (7:14) We gained 19 clients. (7:16) One quarter we lost.(7:17) You had a month where you lost like eight clients or something. (7:21) It was brutal. (7:21) So when you're growing at 190, so from 2020, from 2019 to 2020, 2020 to 2021, 2021 to 2022, we grew an average of 119% year over year.(7:36) That is insane.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:38) Companies do not grow that fast. (7:40) So for those out there that aren't necessarily versed in math, that means we doubled our business. (7:44) Every year.

Alan Lazaros

(7:46) That's insane. (7:47) Like that doesn't happen. (7:48) And so of course I'm going to take out a $20,000 credit card.(7:53) It's called OPM, other people's money. (7:56) If I can get an immediate 20 grand to invest back in the snowball and I'm growing 119% year over year, that means I'm 99% in the green. (8:05) Well, unfortunately most podcasters didn't stick around, which I should have anticipated.(8:10) I was an idiot, idiot CEO. (8:14) They didn't stick around because I assumed everyone had work ethic like we do, not the fucking case. (8:21) And then all of a sudden it was, Oh, we only grew by 18% in 2023 and only 11% in 2024.(8:27) Are you fucking kidding me? (8:29) Dude, it's not like we worked any less, but it turns out there's not a lot of podcasters that are willing to play the long game. (8:37) And now we know we're much smarter now who to invest in, what not to do, you know, team members, you name it.(8:43) We're, we're way smarter. (8:44) I mean, we just, we were just young and dumb in my opinion. (8:49) Um, and so now we paid off 50 grand worth of debt in a single day in a single day.(8:53) That was a big day for us. (8:55) That was great.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:55) Very big day.

Alan Lazaros

(8:56) And the cool part about that is, is when you climb out of the hole and this is maybe the saying will land differently. (9:01) Cause I've been saying this for probably eight years now. (9:07) The deep dark holes that you find yourselves in, we all find ourselves in, in this case, the tools and the skills necessary to climb out also build skyscrapers.(9:21) We are now on our way to being completely credit card debt-free very close because it's an income to debt ratio. (9:30) We make, I'm not going to get into it. (9:32) There's something called an income to debt ratio.(9:33) Debt is relative to give this in perspective. (9:38) And I know this isn't a business episode, but it is a money episode. (9:41) Netflix early on was 15 million in the hole and they only made 5 million a year.(9:45) That's not good. (9:47) Blockbuster was doing 8 million, 8 billion in revenue every year. (9:51) So again, the point is every business uses OPM, other people's money, investors, all this kind of stuff.(9:57) I can't teach business in 20 minutes. (9:58) What I can do is if you're out there and you have credit card debt, if you're, if you have 15 grand of credit card debt and you make 250 grand a year, you're fine. (10:07) Just pay that shit off.(10:08) You're going to be fine. (10:09) Now, if you're in a hundred grand of credit card debt and you only make $30,000 a year, you're in some serious trouble and you need to file for bankruptcy. (10:17) And no one taught us any of this.(10:19) And it's really depressing because yeah, of course I made a bonehead move, but I knew we weren't going to go out of business.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:25) It's not that dumb. (10:26) Yes. (10:27) Good question.(10:27) How, okay. (10:28) Because this has always been the thing, the back and forth for us. (10:30) And we have like 10 minutes left before we get a hop.(10:32) So I want to make this the best 10 minutes we can make it. (10:36) We were talking about how there's a big difference between logic and emotion. (10:40) Logically, if you have $20,000 in savings and you have $10,000 in credit card debt, you should pay off the credit card debt.

Alan Lazaros

(10:47) Unless you're making 25% year over year on that money. (10:52) Let's say you're not.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:53) Then yeah, of course pay it off. (10:55) Let's, let's, let's not, let's just assume it's in a savings account and there's, you're not making any money on it. (11:00) Oh, that's the, okay.

Alan Lazaros

(11:04) NLU listener, what is happening? (11:06) I just wanted to jump in here and let you know, if you want to get to the next level faster, we have a free virtual monthly meetup at the first Thursday of every month. (11:15) You can connect with like-minded people and become a bigger part of this amazing global community.(11:20) The link to register will be in the show notes. (11:24) If you have money in a savings account, it's round error of 0% growing.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:29) You're basically just wasting money, but sell me on how do I get over the emotional fact that that feels like safety to That feels like safety. (11:40) Like what if something goes wrong? (11:42) Um, cause I have an answer for this too, but yours is going to be better than mine for sure.(11:45) It's false safety.

Alan Lazaros

(11:47) Why? (11:49) So there's someone I'm thinking of who has $22,000 in savings and 15 grand in credit card debt because this person makes a good income. (12:00) She, she makes probably, I don't know, 75 a year.(12:04) She should pay that off because she's not that money in savings is at 0% growth. (12:10) And I really, really hope this lands. (12:11) If I can give Kevin a dollar and he can grow it by 30%, then I should just keep giving you dollars because you can give me 10% of that.(12:20) This is how the whole banking industry works.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:22) Like banks are built on this very smaller. (12:25) We got to go smaller. (12:26) Okay.(12:26) I emotionally am tied to the number in my bank account. (12:31) If I see that going up, I feel good. (12:36) How do I work?(12:38) How do I work around that? (12:41) This is good. (12:41) This is good.

Alan Lazaros

(12:42) You get around someone who is more logical and get them to help you realize, here's how I make you feel terrible about it. (12:49) That money is actually going down by 3% every year.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:52) Understandable because of it, but again, it's not about it's not, don't make me feel terrible about it. (12:56) Make me feel good about it. (12:58) Feel good.(12:58) I need to feel good about taking money out of my savings and putting it on a credit card.

Alan Lazaros

(13:03) Oh, okay. (13:04) Okay. (13:04) We're, we're getting somewhere strong.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:06) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(13:07) Here's how you do it.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:08) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(13:09) So how much is the credit card percent interest rate? (13:12) Let's say it's 20% round number. (13:13) Okay.(13:14) Okay. (13:14) So, and how, how much 10,000 of credit card debt round up round number $10,000 credit card debt at 20%. (13:23) Okay.(13:23) Do you want an extra 200 bucks just handed to you every single month? (13:28) Let's see. (13:28) That's good.(13:29) Nice. (13:30) I like that. (13:31) Or I think what's more useful is you might as well take out 200 bucks every month and just burn it in front of me.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:36) I don't know if that, I don't know if the fear of loss feels better than the pleasure of gain for most people. (13:41) I don't know. (13:42) We'd have to check on the psychology of that.

Alan Lazaros

(13:44) I have the, the, the loss aversion is much bigger. (13:48) People will do way more not to lose than they will to gain.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:53) Not to lose than they will to gain. (13:55) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(13:56) People have a really hard time giving something up, but they, that's why opportunity costs.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:00) What if they're already, what if they're already giving it up? (14:04) What do you mean? (14:05) Like they're already giving up the $200 a month.(14:11) I think if you say you're going to get that money back as a gain, I think that helps. (14:17) That helps me at least.

Alan Lazaros

(14:19) I think what helps more is you might as well just burn money. (14:22) But I'm already burning. (14:23) Useful.(14:25) I'm already burning. (14:25) But you don't think you are. (14:27) Maybe that's, that's fair.(14:28) Yeah. (14:29) You don't think you are. (14:29) You know, what would really be painful is for me to bring $200 bills and in front of you every month and come and burn them in front of you.(14:38) That would get you to change.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:39) That would work.

Alan Lazaros

(14:40) And I would say, this is what you're doing for the next 84 years. (14:43) If you don't pay off that fucking debt, that would work.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:45) And, and that's not even the full extent of it.

Alan Lazaros

(14:49) Yeah. (14:49) It's way worse than that.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:50) Because yeah, it's, you're not paying off. (14:52) Yeah. (14:53) It's way worse.(14:53) You're not paying off the credit card principle. (14:56) Yeah. (14:56) You're that, I think it was like, I saw something the other day, it was like a $20,000 card and you end up paying off like $90,000 or something.(15:03) Something just insane. (15:05) Yeah. (15:05) Well, that's why they give cards to everybody.(15:07) Right. (15:08) Here's okay. (15:09) This, this helps me.(15:11) Okay. (15:11) This has helped me. (15:14) Let's say you have $20,000 in savings.(15:16) You have a $10,000 credit card. (15:17) You take $10,000 out of savings. (15:19) You pay it on the credit card.(15:20) Right. (15:21) If something horrible goes wrong, you can always use the credit card again. (15:25) If you have perfect, exactly.(15:27) That's always now you don't want to. (15:30) Yeah. (15:30) And if anything, you're most likely going to be like the pain of paying off that 10,000 and being in that predicament, I don't want to be there again, but that's always helped me.(15:39) There's the money still there. (15:41) It's accessible to you. (15:43) No, not like you.(15:45) No, I can try. (15:48) I can, I can try to explain points. (15:51) Yeah.(15:52) You got this. (15:53) All right. (15:56) Um, Jesus.(16:01) Okay. (16:02) Let's say Alan comes to me and he says, brother, I'm a degenerate. (16:07) I need some money.(16:08) I'm like, dude, completely understand. (16:09) I've been waiting on this day my whole life. (16:11) All right, cool.(16:11) How much do you need? (16:12) I need a thousand dollars. (16:16) Nice.(16:16) Got you. (16:17) I'm going to charge you 5% interest though.

Alan Lazaros

(16:20) Right?

Kevin Palmieri

(16:21) So you're going to have to pay me a $1,050. (16:25) Nice. (16:26) When you, when you come back to me and you're, and so it makes sense for Alan to do that.(16:32) If he can make $1,100 with that money.

Alan Lazaros

(16:36) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:37) Which I definitely can. (16:38) Which you definitely can. (16:38) So I'm charging Alan five points.(16:41) So 5%, five points. (16:44) He can make 10 points with that money. (16:47) So essentially he's always in the green, five points.(16:51) We both, that's a win-win. (16:53) That's what the banking industry is built on. (16:55) Unfortunately they do a lot of win losses though for folks.(16:59) Cause, cause most people don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(17:01) So in that case, I'd be five points in the green. (17:04) And so assuming we had no other debts and that's what you're playing. (17:09) You want time to be on your side with points.(17:12) That's why it makes no sense to me when I see people that are in their 20s and 30s that don't want to work hard. (17:16) If you knew, like someone wants to buy our company and one of our team members say, who, who, who we get emails all the time. (17:26) They want me to run the company and they just want to buy the company and then, and then sell it later and have us do all the work.(17:34) People think this will land. (17:36) I think people think Justin Bieber got lucky. (17:38) Who do you think made out on that deal?(17:40) Usher or Bieber? (17:42) Usher. (17:42) Damn right.(17:43) Dude. (17:44) Usher. (17:44) Every old person has money and they don't have time.(17:48) So they find young people that are talented and they're like, Hey, you go work. (17:51) I'll give you the money and give me a chunk of it. (17:53) That's the whole economy is built on that.(17:56) Like you think these young actors are making a ton of money. (17:59) Trust me. (18:00) The fucking producers are making way more than them.(18:03) You know, you know what a Steven, Steven Spielberg's net worth is. (18:06) Oh dude. (18:07) 600 mil at least.(18:09) 5 billion. (18:10) Nice. (18:11) Yeah.(18:11) 5 billion. (18:13) Yeah. (18:14) Makes sense.(18:15) But he's also fucking 75 and he's done some of the most successful movies of all time.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:22) Right. (18:22) He's one of the best. (18:23) He might be considered.

Alan Lazaros

(18:24) Did you know that in the past, would you have thought Bieber was winning in that or Usher? (18:28) I would have thought Bieber. (18:29) Yeah.(18:29) See that, that's just ignorance. (18:32) Like Jay-Z who owns the production agency, like they find talented young people and they put them to work and then they make money off of that.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:38) And that's how the economy works. (18:40) That's why young people need to work hard. (18:42) One minute lesson.(18:43) We got to get out of here. (18:43) Give me a one minute lesson. (18:44) Okay.(18:45) This is keeping you broke forever. (18:46) Mine is not understanding how bad interest rates are and how they affect you so much. (18:56) And just thinking that, well, I'll pay the minimum, I'll pay the minimum and then eventually I'll pay it off in full.(19:01) I mean, yeah, you can do that, but you're essentially burning money in the meantime. (19:05) It's just way more dangerous than I ever, I ever realized. (19:08) So I have to assume other people probably have struggled as well.

Alan Lazaros

(19:11) If you learn nothing else about money or life for that matter, there is no such thing as something for nothing ever. (19:20) Someone is always paying the price. (19:24) There's no such thing as something for nothing in this universe.(19:30) And when a credit card company gives you cash back and a 0% card, it's for them, not for you. (19:37) Unless you're ridiculously smart. (19:39) In which case I always benefited.(19:40) I paid off my card in full, so I just got cash. (19:42) I just might as well be free money for me, but they're banking on human error, which is always a thing. (19:47) Well, they're in ignorance.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:49) If everybody did what you did, they'd go out of business.

Alan Lazaros

(19:50) Oh, a hundred percent. (19:51) Credit card companies would not exist. (19:53) They wouldn't exist.(19:53) My mentor, he said this one time, he said, people, credit card companies are lining their pockets with your ignorance. (19:58) Not me, but the collective. (20:00) And that's why I do this podcast, brother.(20:03) One of the reasons is I want to educate people so they don't get taken advantage of.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:06) Same, same. (20:08) But I have to know it well enough to actually speak eloquently on it. (20:11) And now I feel like I understand money at a much deeper level than I ever have.(20:14) Thanks to you. (20:14) And thanks to a lot of the experiences we've had and the practices we've had and the circumstances we've had. (20:20) And the huge mistakes we've made.(20:21) Massive mistakes that we've made.

Alan Lazaros

(20:22) And we've had some wins too.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:24) Yeah, yeah, for sure. (20:24) For sure. (20:25) Most of those wins were necessities due to the massive mistakes we made.(20:28) That's how life works, man. (20:30) All right, cool. (20:30) All right.(20:31) Next level of the nation, if you are looking for help in this department, maybe you are somebody who wants to make more money or you want to know where your expenses are going or all that happy jazz, Alan does one-on-one coaching. (20:40) Alan is really good at numbers. (20:41) He is the numbers guy for sure.(20:43) We'll have his link below for a free 30-minute breakthrough session. (20:46) And we have an amazing Facebook group filled with amazing people like you. (20:50) So if you want to get to the next level, we'll have the link in the show notes for Next Level Nation.(20:54) Also, as always, we love you. (20:55) We appreciate you. (20:56) Grateful for each and every one of you at NLU.(20:58) We don't have fans. (20:59) We have family. (20:59) We will talk to you all tomorrow.(21:00) Keep it Next Level. (21:02) Next Level Nation. (21:05) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University.(21:09) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(21:12) We mean it when we say family. (21:13) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (21:17) Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.(21:20) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.