The “Bowtie” And What It Means For Your Goals (2156)

From heavy toil to effortless flow, success blooms slow. In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan reveal “The Bow Tie”, a simple way to see why results are slow at first and how momentum can flip the game. With Oprah’s work ethic and their own eight-year journey as proof, this episode shows what it really takes to win big over time.

Free 30-minute Business Breakthrough Session with Alan -https://calendly.com/alanlazaros/30-minute-free-breakthrough-session?month=2025-04
Free 30-Minute Podcast Breakthrough Session with Kevin -https://calendly.com/kevinpalmieri/free-30-minute-podcast-breakthrough-session-with-kevin

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NLU is not just a podcast; it’s a gateway to a wealth of resources designed to help you achieve your goals and dreams. From our Next Level Dreamliner to our Group Coaching, we offer a variety of tools and communities to support your personal development journey.

For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Alan: https://www.instagram.com/alazaros88/

Facebook ✍
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Email 💬
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Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn ✍
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:40) Oprah’s discipline and the truth about “not worrying”
(7:03) Eight years of effort Vs. Results
(8:11) Meet your people. Chase your dreams. Level up your life with Next Level Group Coaching. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
(10:47) Breakthrough growth and hard lessons learned
(13:36) Why momentum changes everything
(15:01) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 2:40 Oprah’s discipline and the truth about “not worrying”
• 7:03 Eight years of effort Vs. Results
• 8:11 Meet your people. Chase your dreams. Level up your life with Next Level Group Coaching.
• 10:47 Breakthrough growth and hard lessons learned
• 13:36 Why momentum changes everything
• 15:01 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) Today we are going to talk about a visualization that literally encapsulates what success is and how you can tell when you're really becoming successful.

Alan Lazaros

(0:09) I do a Facebook memory of the day. (0:10) Yesterday it came up with Evan Carmichael for episode, we were on his YouTube channel, and he said, at the beginning, you're supposed to suck. (0:19) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:22) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:23) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:26) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:33) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:40) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(0:55) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:02) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:08) Next Level Nation, today for episode number 2,156, the bow tie and what it means for your goals. (1:16) So when Alan and I first started working together, he said, hey man, I want to introduce you to a concept called the bow tie. (1:23) I was like, sounds weird.(1:25) Did I do that on the whiteboard or were we zooming? (1:28) Zoom was a thing, but we didn't know about it. (1:32) Zoom's been around for a hot minute.(1:35) I think this was in your sister's old bedroom. (1:39) We had a whiteboard and you were doing it. (1:42) And he said, essentially, in the beginning, you put level 10 effort and you get level 1 results.(1:49) You get level 0 results. (1:51) Then you put level 9 effort and you get level 1 results. (1:54) And then you put level 8 effort and you get level 2 results.(1:58) And eventually, when the quote-unquote bow tie flips, and I'll let you explain the visualization of it, you put in level 4 effort and you get level 6 results. (2:10) You put in level 3 effort and you get level 7 results. (2:13) You put in level 2 effort, you get level 8 results.(2:15) You put in level 1 effort, you get level 9 results. (2:17) And eventually, you put in 0 effort and get level 10. (2:19) That part, I don't think that's ever going to happen for us based on what we're doing.(2:22) But the bow tie is a suggestion that eventually, it gets to a place where your effort and results flip, but it will never get to that place unless you are willing to go through the sucky years of putting a bunch of effort in and getting essentially nothing out in return.

Alan Lazaros

(2:40) I remember hearing Oprah say, and at this point, she was in her mid-50s, late 50s, and she said, someone asked her on an interview, what would you do if you could go back and talk to your younger self? (2:51) And she said, I wouldn't have worried so much. (2:54) And I had this moment of, but you never missed an Oprah show for something crazy.(3:00) Don't quote me on this, but I think it was like 20 years. (3:02) You and I went and saw her speak and she said she never took a day off, never got sick, never took an Oprah show. (3:07) I mean, it was amazing.(3:10) And I remember I turned to Kev, I was taking notes. (3:11) I was the only one there taking notes, which now makes me the ultra weirdo. (3:15) But I turned to Kevin, I said, that's why she's Oprah.(3:19) To go 20 years without a single miss, that's the compound effect. (3:22) That's unbelievable. (3:23) And I told Kevin this, I said, it's interesting how she says, if I could go back in time, I wouldn't have worried so much.(3:28) It's like, well, the truth is the fact that you were concerned, you and I are concerned every day. (3:35) We're concerned. (3:36) How do we grow the company?(3:37) How do we do better? (3:38) How do we get better? (3:39) How do we make the podcast better?(3:40) Should we get new microphones, audio quality, the popping? (3:44) Always concerned. (3:45) You and I just had a conversation berating each other about fitness and being out of shape.(3:49) The reason we're in shape is because we're constantly telling each other how out of shape we are. (3:55) Kevin's like, dude, that ain't it. (3:57) It's like, brother, what the fuck, man?(4:00) So we basically had a friendly competition behind the scenes, who's going to be in better shape at 46. (4:04) Who's going to die sooner, Alan or me? (4:07) It's probably going to be me.(4:09) It's literally 10 years from today, everyone marked the date, whatever today is, who's going to be in better shape at 46 years old. (4:16) Now that you're 36, I'm so grateful because we're the same age. (4:18) We get to be the same age for two months a year.(4:22) How many times have I said, hey, are you 32? (4:25) Are you 35?

Kevin Palmieri

(4:26) A lot. (4:27) Well, you're going to be saying that now for the next six months. (4:29) You're really 35.(4:29) Oh no, you turned 36. (4:30) And then once you get 36, I'll be 37. (4:32) It's going to be a whole thing.

Alan Lazaros

(4:33) And I don't expect you to remember my fucking age. (4:34) In November when I'm 37, I'm going to ask you until you're 37. (4:39) No, I'm not.(4:40) I'm joking. (4:41) Okay. (4:42) The bow tie.(4:42) Oprah said, I wouldn't have worried so much. (4:45) The hard truth that I'm just going to own here is the reason she's successful is one of the reasons is because she was concerned about it. (4:54) You can't just not be concerned about it.(4:57) And I remember thinking there's someone in college right now watching this interview, eating Cheetos, not work ethic, not goals, not clear, not getting after it, not grinding. (5:09) And they're like, oh, well, if Oprah says, don't worry so much, I guess I should keep not worrying. (5:15) Dumbest shit ever.(5:16) Terrible idea. (5:17) Your future might suck horribly if you don't concern yourself about it now. (5:23) And I'm reading a book called Willpower and Book Club, which I'm going to be on in seven minutes.(5:27) And it's literally talking about that. (5:29) If you don't concern yourself at all with quitting drugs or alcohol, you probably won't. (5:33) If you don't surround yourself with the right people, it's a whole, it's all based on research and studies, social science.(5:38) But the bow tie, Kev, I think that you're probably the best person to articulate a story that would, can you share with us the last eight years? (5:48) Give me, okay, year one in the podcast. (5:51) Give me your two, give me your three, give me your four, give me your five, six and seven and eight and do it from the frame of the bow tie.(5:58) Now, Kevin and I are not done. (6:00) We are not even close to done. (6:02) We're still at the very, very, very, very, very, very, very beginning of our journey, I believe.(6:05) Okay. (6:06) I'm playing the long game I always have, but let's just take the last eight years because 80% of the results have come in the last two. (6:15) Where are we in your, from your perspective, where are we in the bow tie now?(6:19) Just so I know, we can't do that because time perspective, the bow tie is predicated on time perspective. (6:24) So it depends, but I mean what you're going for. (6:27) Well, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:27) But for us specifically, if I want to end in year eight, I need to know where you think we are in year eight.

Alan Lazaros

(6:33) You know what I mean? (6:34) No, no, no. (6:35) In the context of my question, eight is the end.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:38) Oh, okay.

Alan Lazaros

(6:38) You see what I'm saying? (6:39) Well, it is zero, 10, 10, zero, 10. (6:43) If you and I were to coast right now and not work harder to get to the next level, next level, next level, just coast, AKA not get percent better, percent better, percent better, percent better.(6:52) What would just do it from that context? (6:54) Yeah. (6:55) Fuck.(6:55) I don't know if I know how to do it from that context. (6:57) Let me try. (6:57) Let me try.(6:58) Yeah. (6:58) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:58) Just give me a year one and how horrible it was in 2017 was year one. (7:03) Okay. (7:04) Again, year one's kind of, it's kind of a scratchy year because I wasn't taking it seriously.(7:09) Alan and I weren't partnered together. (7:10) So honestly, year one was not level 10 effort for fuck sake. (7:18) It's accurate though.(7:19) I can't lie. (7:20) No, no, I know. (7:20) And I don't want you to lie.(7:21) I was first year.

Alan Lazaros

(7:23) I was all over the place. (7:23) I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:25) It wasn't effort.

Alan Lazaros

(7:26) You were crying into your pillow after the interview. (7:29) It was level 10 effort. (7:30) You were just a lesser human.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:32) No, I was missing episodes. (7:33) It wasn't brother. (7:33) I wasn't doing social media.(7:35) This was not level 10 effort for me, man. (7:36) Well, that's when you came when you came. (7:38) Okay.(7:38) Let's say 2018. (7:40) Yeah, sure. (7:40) That's year one.(7:41) We partnered up. (7:42) We did this full time. (7:43) It was fucking terrible.(7:45) Absolutely terrible. (7:46) All right, there we go. (7:47) Level 10 effort.(7:50) Alan and I working essentially every day, both single at the time, I think just grinding it out, recording until midnight, traveling, spending money we don't have to get like nothing out of it, like zero dollars in return. (8:06) And honestly, nobody really gave a shit what we were doing. (8:09) That was, that's year one.(8:12) Next level nation. (8:13) What is happening? (8:15) If you've thought to yourself, I want to try coaching, but you don't really know where to start.(8:20) Group coaching would be a wonderful place for you. (8:22) That's really why we created it in the first place. (8:24) We start a new round every 90 days.(8:27) So if you're hearing this, go to the website, nextleveluniverse.com. (8:32) And we have the landing page where you can actually hold your spot right now. (8:36) Even if there's a group going on right now, you can still lock your spot for the next one.(8:40) The biggest thing that we've seen is as we get closer and closer to the date, unfortunately, some people end up missing the group fills up and they can't do it. (8:49) And then they end up regretting that. (8:50) So please head over to the website.(8:52) The link will be in the show notes and we would love to see you there.

Alan Lazaros

(8:56) Year two. (8:57) And that's what's not starting from zero. (8:59) I already had a social media following.(9:01) I was already fitness and all that kind of stuff.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:03) So, and we already had discipline and Alan understood habits and reverse engineering. (9:07) Okay. (9:07) Year two, 2019, I would say again, was, was a year of putting in level 10 effort and probably getting like level one results.(9:19) Just the same, like we worked more. (9:22) And if you were to, if you were to calculate how many dollars per hour we earned from working, it would be less than the first year.

Alan Lazaros

(9:29) I can pull this up. (9:31) I'm, I'm totally comfortable sharing the gross.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:33) I think it was 20, it was either 24,000 or 47,000.

Alan Lazaros

(9:37) I think I'm totally, I'm glad we can do this. (9:39) So I have this, all this data. (9:40) So the first year was, I put, it's $0.(9:44) I put one because you can't divide by zero. (9:46) Unfortunately. (9:47) Yeah.(9:48) Okay. (9:48) So the first year, 2017, we made $1. (9:51) Nice.(9:52) Made $0. (9:53) Okay. (9:54) 2018, we made the $12,666 combined.(9:59) 12,000. (9:59) Yeah. (9:59) Combined.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:00) Between the two of us.

Alan Lazaros

(10:00) That means that's 1,500 bucks a month each. (10:04) Yeah. (10:04) Let's rock and roll.(10:06) Then in 2019, we made $32,933. (10:12) Combined. (10:13) Combined.(10:13) Combined. (10:14) Now where we live, that is not a lot of money. (10:18) Okay.(10:18) Where we live in Massachusetts at the time you lived in Massachusetts, that is not good. (10:25) Divide that by two. (10:26) That's really not good for some grown ass men.(10:28) Okay. (10:30) And we gave up six figure salaries for this. (10:32) I was making 180 when I left corporate, Kevin was making a hundred.(10:35) I know we got to five minutes. (10:36) Okay. (10:37) 2020, we started picking up.(10:39) Not great for where we live, but we started picking up $82,399. (10:47) Then the next year, $135,000. (10:52) Okay.(10:52) That's 2021. (10:54) You know it. (10:55) Yeah, man.(10:55) Then 2022 was a breakout year for us. (10:59) You and I just, it was COVID, post COVID, everyone was starting a podcast. (11:03) It was- And we were grinding.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:05) We were grinding.

Alan Lazaros

(11:07) We were grinding. (11:07) We were grinding. (11:08) We rebranded before that.(11:09) In 2021, I think we rebranded to next level university. (11:14) That's us. (11:17) $273,172.(11:18) And this is where Kevin and I lost our minds. (11:21) It was fucked up. (11:22) We were like, so what do you think?(11:25) Cars? (11:26) What do we want to buy? (11:27) Right?(11:28) I'm being playful. (11:29) It wasn't that stupid, but some of it was stupid. (11:31) Okay.(11:32) But 24 person team, bring it on, baby. (11:35) Take it. (11:36) Too much.(11:36) Too much. (11:37) And again, if you double your company, you have to be very humble because you can overextend very easily. (11:46) It's easier to double your expenses than just to double your company.(11:49) A hundred percent. (11:49) And then what happens when you lose clients? (11:51) Because podcasters- Expenses stay the same.(11:55) Okay. (11:55) So 2023, we still did well, but we only grew by 19%. (12:03) And by the way, before that it was 100%, 160%, 150%, 64%, 102%.(12:08) So it was, we were basically doubling our company on average. (12:10) It was 119% year over year. (12:13) And that's when you overextend.(12:16) And this is how the economy works too. (12:19) There it is. (12:19) Global economy.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:20) There it is. (12:21) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(12:21) All right, here we go. (12:23) 2023, $324,586. (12:27) Now keep in mind, this is gross revenue.(12:29) Okay. (12:30) And at this point we have team paid, 2024. (12:34) I should really do this on business growth university.(12:37) 2024, 361,641. (12:41) Now these numbers seem bigger, but I need you to know the growth rate is what matters in my opinion, as the CEO, what matters to Kev was the numbers. (12:48) What matters to me is the growth rate.(12:50) So we went from 102%, 119% year over year growth for four years straight to 19% and then 11%. (12:58) So it's like, oh, trend lines going down here.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:02) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(13:03) And now we're actually doing much better. (13:05) So we're projected this year for upwards of a half million. (13:08) And again, we'll see.(13:09) The point is, and we are still working really hard, which is why the bow tie won't work for us because the bow tie is predicated on the time perspective. (13:21) So if I'm only taking eight years, but you and I are still in the beginning of our journey in my mind, it's not going to work. (13:27) But what I can say is if I crunch the numbers of that gross revenue, 80% of the progress was in the last two years.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:36) All I said this to Taryn, this is a really good example of it. (13:38) I said this to Taryn the other day. (13:39) I said, I just did a podcast pre-call with someone who asked me about what we were going to talk about.(13:45) It was supposed to be a 30 minute pre-call. (13:47) I was like, cool. (13:48) Awesome.(13:48) We do that all the time. (13:49) No biggie. (13:50) And then they were like any advice you'd give to an early podcaster.(13:53) And I gave them advice and they said, I'm looking for somebody to help me with this, this, and this. (13:56) Do you know anybody? (13:57) And I said, yes, me, us, we can help you.(13:59) And I said, the only reason I can even say that and people listen is because we have 2,156 episodes and we produce 65 podcasts. (14:08) It gets easier over time because you have more to show for all the effort that you've put in and you get better.

Alan Lazaros

(14:16) And it doesn't all get easier. (14:18) No, no. (14:19) So as of right now, I think we have 112 podcasters and business owners that we work with.(14:24) That's 112 paying clients. (14:26) Now we have to service 112 people and do it well. (14:31) Yes.(14:31) So I don't want people to think it gets easier. (14:35) We're going to do a part two. (14:36) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:36) We're going to have to do a fucking part two.

Alan Lazaros

(14:38) It's easier if you slow down. (14:39) Right. (14:39) If you don't slow down, if you're climbing around Everest, it only gets easier if you take breaks at base camps.(14:46) But is it, is it the, it's less resistance to get, you can get more results with the same effort, but it doesn't make it easier because then you have to service, you're going to increase and you're going to increase effort.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:57) Exactly. (14:58) It's not like part two. (14:59) Yeah.(14:59) We'll do it. (14:59) We're going to do part two. (15:00) Awesome.(15:00) All right. (15:00) Alan's going to go to book club. (15:01) As always, we love you.(15:02) Appreciate you. (15:03) Grateful for each and every one of you. (15:04) And if you are as committed to getting to the next level, as you say you are, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we are going to be here every single day helping you do that.(15:12) Keep reaching for your potential. (15:14) Next level nation. (15:17) Thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university.(15:21) We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(15:24) We mean it when we say family. (15:26) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (15:29) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(15:33) Thank you again. (15:34) And we will talk to you tomorrow.